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On Mr.MARCO MERLINI’s “TĂRTĂRIA AND THE SACRED TABLETS “. Investigating the signs on the circular tablet”

November 24, 2018

In memory of Sabin Adrian Luca

! ! <<<<<<< A T T E N T I O N >>>>>>> !

Due the fact that Mr.Merlini is believing that the tablets have a very old age (much olders with 2K Years than the real age wich could be in fact)
Deep inside beeing not sure what is in fact that age
He is expecting Neolithic and even not think of Bronze age.
Not know that proto-writing emerged in the world around 3.200 B.C. (Sumer,Egypt,Indus). No single proto-writing before 3,500 in the World!
His reasearch wich is regarding the signs, is extending at an extremely wide time span and too far back in time. The time spanning / period of time/ timeline from paleolithic to late neolithic. S O R R Y, D E E P L Y W R O N G !
He did not realise even now, that the Vinca Civilisations stopped at the verge of discovering the writing.
I mean, out of those singleton tablets ( wich could be made yesterday by one as me, who has elementary knowledge of some dispersed ancient signs) no other writing proove that even proto-writing existed in Vinca-Turdas civilisation.
So, he is mainly searching in such a big pile of ancient signs as finaly cannot decide, and he DO NOT KNOW WHAT TO CHOOSE.
Writing developed as a stringent necesity in high developed societies (Sumer, Minoan)..”high” I mean really high in respect of every single aspect of economical and social activity. (Remember only the Hamurabi code or minoan streets and houses.) The hearth of writing in Europe was in the Aegean. I wonder wich was the supposed path of “Kadmus road”… probably close to that of commerce. The writing emerged close to places where thousends of tablets were found !
Nobody knows how cultural transmission happened (by air like flu or how?) Evidences points that Aegean was influenced by sumerians (see papers of Evanghelos Papakitsos and Iannis Kenanidis).Early minoans seem to be native sumerians.
There were population movements that only now with genetics developements could be traced.
An “laboratory”-like scientific analysis of the sign is stormed by “Mylady Tartaria” story, otherwise introducing more mistery not scientific needed and beeing your own contribution or production.

UPPER HALF: From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T%C4%83rt%C4%83ria_tablets

First, begining from the left, H-like sign https://www.shapeways.com/product/SZMTARPYB/letter-khet-paleo-hebrew-with-chain-loop

The folowing, from https://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heeta

From Marco Merlini https://fashiondocbox.com/Jewelry/90885882-Tartaria-and-the-sacred-tablets.html: THE ESOTERIC MESSAGE ON THE DISK-SHAPED TABLET

“A throne that is not a throne

The (sign)is very frequent and well known, with an assortment of variants, in several inventories of ancient systems of writing. The Mesopotamian examples highlight an implausible correspondence between this Transylvanian sign and the pictogram from Uruk ATU 260 1470 or Jemdet Nasr 1471.Badiny forced the supposed similarities selectin g the Proto-Sumerian pictogram1472. Nonetheless, any correspondence in shape is remote1473. These scholars find equivalence only by maintaining that

the Tărtăria sign is damaged in the lower left segmen ts; they reconstruct it arbitrarily in an outline resembling the Proto-Sumerian counterpart.

Correspondences in Akkadian cuneiform are not very clear. It is Labat number 436 according to Badiny with sound TUD, DUR meaning ‘settlement foundations’

1474. However, it is Labat number 99 with meaning ‘Lord’, ‘God’ with a phonetic value EN according to Kolev1475.The sign resembling a tri-rung lame ladder or a limping chair occurs also in Semitic scripts, in particular in the Phoenician alphabet where a similar sign represents the letter heth (phonetic value h),. Subsequently, it became the Latin H. The occurs also in other ancient Asiatic scripts, as well as in

the East Orient systems of writing. In particular, there is a complete graphic convergence with the sign 53 of the Indus script 1476.”

Despite : -the large excursus wich is comprising almost all close-shape ancient signs – not even noticed exactly HET-shape (apropos, sound Kh as in ger. koCH not H!) -not found the exact construction of the proto-cuneiform sign KU/GA2 wich has also as our sign 3 horiz. bars -not get to a final conclusion and not choosed or found any concrete sign or meaning : (………….“In any case, to my thinking it will be productive to explore the possible abstract meanings of the as the opening that introduces the esoteric inscription.”)

– if The (sign)is very frequent and well known then why you not take the bull by the horns ? (romanian exprasion translated < de ce nu luati taurul de coarne>?

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Image from http://aplaceofbrightness.blogspot.com/2008/11/moonlight-in-romania-tartaria-tablets_21.html KEYTH MASSEY

2-nd “D-shape sign” on the right,

Merlini:”The second sign on the upper left quadrant is a rounded D-shape with a tail,” me: no tail, scribe shaking hand. It is exactly ATU 527!

Merlini:”In the Danube civilization, its occurrence is restricted to Tărtăria, and it is not present in other ancient scripts. ” Me: Yes,In the Danube civilization, its occurrence is restricted to Tărtăria but is present in other ancient scripts as: sumerian, Anatolian writings and alphabets archaic greek (as for letters D and R), in venetic script, …I’m not squeezing my memory further.

Merlini:”In the Late Neolithic Vinča C culture, the D is engraved on the forehead of a statuette discovered at Medvednjak (Republic of Serbia)1493. Due to positioning, Winn considers this sign as “symbolic”149

Me: In hundreds of statuettes not on forehead there were not cyclops were exactly in the eyes places. (See my post :”Common… in early writing”)More than symbolic, the eye shape is direct related to light through light to deities and sun!

Merlini:”In Akkadian cuneiform, the D is the Labat number 480 with sound DIS, meaning ‘praised one’

Me: yes, but only “one” and not “praised one” because there is no particle there for praise it is only “one” meaning of course the God,praysed-one.Attention, dis much used for numbers; for “one” ment the unique single ONEis +++++ “AS” present on tablet. 1 is “Dis” and “Dili”

Merlini:”At Tărtăria, the tail on the D was incised intentionally. We have to deduce that the ‘scribe’ applied this small auxiliary marker to the root-sign in order to produce a variation to its conceptual meaning or to differentiate some phonetic units of the spoken language. Unfortunately, we are blind concerning the denotation of the D sign and its sound value.

Me: Pitty enough, no sign connection less a given meaning.

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Upper half, right side ; image from http://aplaceofbrightness.blogspot.com/2008/11/moonlight-in-romania-tartaria-tablets_21.html KEYTH MASSEY

COMB-like sign Merlini:”As already mentioned in the previous chapter, on the upper right quadrant of the circular tablet, a ligature between the incised on the higher register and the biggest D on the lower register is nonexistent, although common in literature1507″

Me: the ligature exist, but what this element can push to other divergent interpretations remain to be discussed.

….bla bla bla to conclusion:

Merlini:”In conclusion, if the comb-like sign from Tărtăria finds some parallels in the Mesopotamian pictography and in other ancient scripts, the best semiotic correspondences are from other settlements in Transylvania and in Serbia of the subsequent Neolithic Vinča C and Turdaș cultures of the Danube civilization where it is a component of a numeric system“

Me: yes could be numeric as 10+5 or 50 ( deceased female’s age), but you only said:” finds some parallels in the Mesopotamian pictography”,did not noticed the exact proto-cuneiform sign AS (one,single,unique)

-In respect of he said above, no given number meaning

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First “D-sign”

Merlini:”The crescent moon is visible in the shape of a celestial D1522. The variant

is not recorded in the inventory of the signs of the Danube script.It is very similar to the shape individuated by Gh. Lazarovici with code 238f, meaning ‘first quarter of the moon’. The same sign was utilized to render the first crescent in a lunar cycle engraved on a stone around the second part of IV millennium BC at Knowth (Boyne Valley, Ireland)

1523. The graphic concept is similar to that at the base of the ancient form of the Chinese character Yue4, meaning ’moon’. In the beginning, the pictograph was a new moon hanging in the sky. Gradually, a vertical stroke was added inside. I also assume the

a s a symbol for the ‘first quarter of the moon’.”

Correct: “At Tărtăria, the tail on the D was incised intentionally. We have to deduce that the ‘scribe’ applied this small auxiliary marker to the root-sign in order to produce a variation to its conceptual meaning or to differentiate some phonetic units of the spoken language. Unfortunately, we are blind concerning the denotation of the D sign and its sound value.However, the Transylvanian D is the same as the sign of the moon on the Chinese divination bones. Is the rounded D-shape with a tail representing the abstract

concept of the Moon (the divinity of the Moon?)”

Me: Yes, could be 1-st quarter of the moon, but out of your rendering https://cdli.ucla.edu/tools/SignLists/ATU1.pdf ATU 528 of the sign wich has 2 paralel strokes inside, I’ve found an exactly pair of our sign wich has an L-like sign inside.It is the sign SUR.

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Second D-sign

Merlini:”The sharp incised on the upper right quadrant finds graphic parallels with ATU 527. As substantiated in the next chapter, if the D is a lunar symbol in several early systems of writing and in rock art, at Tărtăria it stands for the Full Moon as the best suitable moment for human fecundation.

Me:If I am not for precisely ” full Moon” but as I run out of better solution, I agree for Moon (as I found only exact shape ATU 527 https://cdli.ucla.edu/tools/SignLists/ATU1.pdf but there no indication for sign name nor meaning!)

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“o o” signs

Merlini: (directly up to conclusions):”In conclusion, the sequence D– D – O –o

incised on the lower register of the upper right quadrant of the Tărtăria tablet seems to indicate the moon according to the following phases: First Quarter Moon, Full Moon, Last Quarter Moon, and New/Black Moon.”

Me: Yes could be, but the main posibilities are :

– o o =sumerian 10 10

– two sumerian signs “o” LAGAB(circle) =sumerian 2xLAGAB=”o o”=”nigin”: “encircle,roaming around,full,total,etc.etc….

DOWNWARD LEFT SIDE OF THE TABLET

Image, from http://aplaceofbrightness.blogspot.com/2008/11/moonlight-in-romania-tartaria-tablets_21.html KEYTH MASSEY

Left side,”Merlini:The stylized bow+arrow sign“

Merlini:”The bow+arrow sign finds some parallels with pictography from Uruk and Jemdet Nasr: sign ATU721,, with the sound BA, meaning ‘eye’ and also ‘to see’1352. In Ak kadian cuneiform, it has the sound IGI, meaning ‘eye’, Labat number 449 1353. Vaguer is the resemblance with the sign with sound BA (‘offer’,‘give’), Labat number 5135″

Me: Yes, BA (‘offer’,‘give’). Ba is by no way is eye, IGI is meaning eye.The Ba (“offer etc,) has one shape, and IGI (eye) another shape.. But seeing the position of the arrow related to the cord, the sign is definitely much close to our sign is Ba !! (“offer,give”).

Merlini:(conclusion) “These observations, when crossed with the identity of Milady Tărtăria as a magic-religious practitioner, open the possibility that the sign on the tablet symbolizes a communication tool utilizing the image of a hunting weapon. It could depict the dynamic, magical moment/action in which the arrow is shot, and the charm has taken off”

Me: Milady Tărtăria’s story is for any help; in my opinion the deceased ~ 5.200 B.C. is not direct related with the tablets (unknown age).No human made any proto-writing signs before 4.000 B.C. other than pictographic! I feel so frustated as somebody is recognising that is down, have no drop of energy/resource and signaling indirectly and asking for help…..

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Signs >> (double-arrow)

After an excursus of where and in how many instances from paleolithic humans used arrows, he (Merlini) come to conclude:

Merlini”On the circular tablet from Tărtăria, the sign >>represents two arrows in abstract style pursuing the target. It might be indicated by the sign incised below,

, with an unfortunately obscure meaning.”

Me: Fortunately noticed the proto-cuneiform RU-sign (close to >>) but not know the meaning, and that there was also an sign >(wich theoretically could be doubled >> as to form plural)

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“Double-cross” sign upon Merlini (me:Z-like):

Image, from KEITH MASSEY http://aplaceofbrightness.blogspot.com/2008/11/moonlight-in-romania-tartaria-tablets_21.html

Merlini:The ” sign”does not find parallelism with the Proto-cuneiform pictogram ATU 295, 1397= Jaritz#560 1398. It is just the duplication of the sign ATU 223 = Jaritz #101,

, which indicates a ’branch growingfrom a stem’, and symbolizes ’grow (large), swell up, bud’. However, the is partially present at Jemdet

Nasr as the 90 grades rotated(JN 47). Regularizing and standardizing the Proto-Sumerian pictograms, Zakar believes to have found the Transylvanian sequence also at Jemdet Na sr ( ), and at Knossos (in the form)1399. In Akkadian cuneiform, the double-bar sign has the Labat n umber 295 with phonetic value PA, KUN, meaning ‘branch’, ‘club’, ‘scepter’

1400. Denoting also someone holding these tokens of authority, it acquired the meaning of someone in power1401. However, some convergences are also with Labat number 467: a ‘god’, ‘the hero’1402

Me: The sign is present from Cretan hierogliphyc through Linear A/B as sign PA2, and is also present coincidentaly in sumerian as PA,”branch” but also as “branch,upper part,supervisor,someone in power,etc”

No wonder by my side: no direct sign connection, the sign remain suspended in the thin air of the Vinca civilisation.Mr.Merlini is bounded to the conception that some-how Vincans wrote. Dissapointment, they made big steps but stopped at the point to discover and use proto-writing!

Merlini:”The analysis of the convergences of the

from Tărtăria with early writing systems evidences a common thread from the Danube script to the Aegean writings. The occurrence within inscriptions of the Danube script documents its use on ceremonial objects of the Danube civilization, and its very rare

presence on daily utilitarian articles confirms the magic-religious significance of this sign.

Me:Not given a chance to sumerians, (apropos Ba+Ru=Baru, barupa”: “magician” ;also Ba+Ru=Pa). Nor the slightest chance to Cretan hierogliphyc 2200B.C, or Linear A 2.000 B.C. or even for Linear B 1500 B.C. They wrote for nothing. Again, so sorry.

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UNDERSIDE HALF

Those “complex” ideograms on the right side,

The image, from http://aplaceofbrightness.blogspot.com/2008/11/moonlight-in-romania-tartaria-tablets_21.html KEYTH MASSEY

Left ideogram/logogram

Merlini:”The finds no obvious correspondences in Akkadian cuneiform. It is paralleled with Labat sign n. 353 by Badiny, with phonetic value ŠA, meaning ‘face’, ‘care’ 1415. But it is the Labat sign n. 172, with sound NE and meaning ‘fire’, according to Kolev 1416. As a representation of a fireplace, a similar symbol occurs on an Assyrian relief from the 9

th century BC, or even older. The sign means ‘throne’ or ‘table’ in the inscriptions of the Hieroglyphic Luwian1417. The assumed convergence between the Transylvanian and the, A330 in Linear A, is unconvincing 1418. In this Cretan writing, the correlated sign is the A3 18,1419.To summarize, even if the (sign)is more or less present in different repertories of ancient systems of writing, it is typical of the Danube civilization and finds the best correspondences within the Vinča and Turdaș cultures as elements of the symbolic code1420. It is not a sign of the Danube script.Its naturalistic rendering indicates it as an altar for fire sacrifice, with three columns that seem to designate three tongues of fire. In the present book, Gh. Lazarovici advances the interpretation and

related archaeological evidence that this symbol represents an altar model, an altar for the worship of fire. Analogies with ancient rituals might support this interpretation. Hindu fire worship begins with an off ering to the three tongues of fire that represent the Orient, the Occident and the central place,followed by an invocation to the divinities. In the Manuscripts from Qumran Cave1, 1Q29 1Q is the “Liturgy of the Three Tongues of Fire” 1421

Me: Has simylarities with Cretan hierogliphyc and Linear A&B as showed in my papers.

So you’re right It is not a sign of the Danube script .It is of Sumerian/Aegean origin. Closest is proto-cuneiform SA (“sieve”) wich was and is my rendering

An altar, yes, but not necessary an altar for fire sacrifice.An altar for burning incences in many rituals.Gr.eskara lat.asa

Right ideogram/logogram

Merlini:THE ORANTE-DANCER The ‘orante-dancer’,(sign 13a and 13b in fi g. VIIC.6b), incised on the right of the and on the edge of the quadrant, occurs only at Tărtăria.

Me: Not like an orante dancer but like a female astral deity! There it is not in upper part the sign UD or PIR “pine” it is udu,utu:SUN” and precisely U:day,SUN

At the base is the sign AB or UNUG :”abode“

So if it is 90% sumerian sign then close to “Sun-shrine/abode” and in our case could be with equal chances also an female astral deity, simylar to TANIT (70% same graphics) and much close than Tanit a deity as ASASARA.

It seems that at minoans and before them, topmost deity in the Balcans was a GODDESS not a God.

See my Cretan hierogliphyc-Linear A,B reading attempt.

Merlini 2011

Eugen Rau 2005 FRIDAY, DECEMBER 30, 2005 OLD EUROPEAN WRITING TARTARIA WRITTEN ROUND TABLET

“sign of SAMAS, Sun-God”

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FOR PUBLIC, INTERESTED VIEWERS:

PROTO CUNEIFORM SUMERIAN SIGNS (Late Uruk) ALL SIGNS ARE PRESENT ON TARTARIA ROUND TABLET

Sumerian proto-cuneiform signs are from from UCLA https://cdli.ucla.edu/tools/SignLists/protocuneiform/archsigns.html

(otherwise also take a look at Mr. Fackelmann sign-list https://cdli.ucla.edu/tools/SignLists/ATU1.pdf )

AB present in the ideogram of Sun-abode=sign of city LARSA

present in ideogram of sun-abode, sign of city LARSA

AMAR (calf)

ARARMA, sign present on emblem of cty Larsa (sun-abode)

ASZ,AS (upper half,right, up)

BA bow-arrow sign

ENSI Lord, (here first sign) present in downward half, left side, most underside

Ga2 ! but there is other sign rotated 90deg,) wich is our sign in upper first from the left

(same as above Gur)

sign GAR read NINDA (portion,cereal,BREAD), possible present as ?close? imitation in D D o o sequence

sign KU (upper half utmost left)

Sign LAGAB “hole,circle” present in D D o o sequence

LAGAB LAGAB (2 times LAGAB=or “2 round circles”=”NIGIN” present in D D o o

also NIGIN “whole,total,enclosed,roaming around”… etc etc.

sign LISZ, present in downward left quadrant doubled, as >>

sign MAS present as the cross wich divedes tablet (?remember”twin, kid”?)

sign PA “overseer inspector” on extreme down-leftward sign/quarter

PA3 possible those 2 signs in the quarter mentioned above

same quarter, sign RU ……forgot meaning

sign SUR “rain,flow,press,squeze,warrior,,etc.etc” 2-nd D in the D D o o row

SZA, SA present as such in the downward side, right, 2-nd from right to left.

U4 It is day=SUN! present in LARSA stamp=sun-God abode sign on downward side, first from R to L

sign UDU sheep ?related to the cross wich divides the tablet?

also UDUb

UNUG quite same with AB “house,abode” present in sun-God abode

twoo rounds twooxLAGAB ..number 10 10 =20

(more…)

Posted in Ancient civilisations, Epigraphy, ancient civilisations, PROTO-CUNEIFORM, PROTO-WRITING, Tartaria tablets, VINCA-TURDAS | Leave a Comment »

Common traits in the very beginning of writing

November 22, 2018

Some other scientists found that one particular pictogram was used in different places in writing .Quite slightly different in shape. It is about the eye. But every scientist showed mainly symilar eye-shapes for only twoo different places. I discovered that there was an much extended phenomenom. I will show you more than 4-5 places in the world. The explanation I’ve found is the fact that humans have the same physical body, and nervous system (read basic way of thinking).

But there was another pictogram used in the same semantic field, the fish. There is no other simple connection for humans for the idea of light other than eye. Light is entering in us through eyes.Close yes and have no light. Eye-light is kind of short-cut between, eliminating every word or philosophy upon.

It is true, light is coming mainly from Sun, but if you figure sun thinking possible turn in first time to celestial star and the light is only 2-nd, close-associated.

I discovered that it seems that the eye-shape was used for logograms and phonemes for light. I suppose the fish-shape was used for bright-light or “bright,shining”.

I will show you some 6 exemples:

A (1). Vinca-culture.So many statuettes with the eyes depicted as letter D with, or without eye-lashes. My personal suppozition, (expressed one year before) was that upon if the sign has an associated meaning that was the light, whatever sounded. For “shiny-bright” they used fish. Vinca-culture 6.000-4.000 B.C. Image, from Neolithic Vinca Terracotta Human/Bison Head – Ancient Art & Antiquities

Image, from http://www.allposters.es/-sp/Close-Up-of-Carving-Vinca-Culture-Belgrade-Museum-Serbia-Posters_i2675424_.htm

The fish was for the idea of bright (bright, shiny-God), the same to identical later sumerian Oanes and old hebrew Dagon ( dag was for fish). Vinca-culture, Bel Brdo 6.000 B.C. See, from https://www.emaze.com/@AFFFZWLO

Dagon https://mythology.net/others/gods/dagon/

Imagini pentru fish-god
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dagon#Ancient_Near_East Bronze AgeThe god Dagon first appears in extant records about 2500 BC in the Mari texts and in personal Amorite names in which the Mesopotamian gods Ilu (Ēl), Dagan, and Adad are especially common. (my note, phoenician Dagon, hebrew Dagan)

B(2) Jiahu writing https://wikivisually.com/wiki/Cuneiform https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSd9Tc0u8QF0jpa5jeWvtlb5Fb17FeEOdPKER-T22KZ6tu2JL-Pv211J4E

From http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread924712/pg1  Here’s a collection of 目 (eye) characters in the oracle script:

C(3)Sumerian

.Thttps://cdli.ucla.edu/staff/englund/publications/englund1995g.pdf “the former qualification, in subsequent periods used to denote
the distribution of above all rations to dependent workers and animals, seems best translated in archaic
sources with ‘inspected’ (‘and found to be available’, pictogram “eye”), roughly corresponding to later Sumerian gub or gal, or possibly gurum (IGI+GAR). 10 ” My note:probable reffering to sign IGI?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sumerian_language

“The Sumerian noun is typically a one or two syllable root (igi “eye“, e2 …”

Imagini pentru proto-cuneiform sumerian From SUMERIAN PROTO-CUNEIFORM SIGN LIST https://cdli.ucla.edu/tools/signlists/protocuneiform/archsigns.html  Proto-cuneiform sign Di: From: New Indology: Sumerian and Indo-European: a surprising connection new-indology.blogspot.com/2015/05/sumerian-and-indo-european-surprising.html

B(2) Indus script From Harappa.com https://www.harappa.com/content/indus-script-5

C(3) Hieroglyphic Cretan ?Do/Du”? https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pjlF-VdbpbpyfFOnmuWv4UpZsXh93pQm5DAzcZ3g7ExMEvF9SlOBwrJOU5O6lf2Aoyo_kjc=s85http://www.kairatos.com.gr/linear1.htm

Hierogliphyc Cretan, sign No.005 From https://www.minoanatlantis.com https://www.minoanatlantis.com/Minoan_Mirror_Web.php

Note: Unknown rendering

Linear A. From http://minoablog.blogspot.com/2009/09/

The major obstacle here is the missing phonetic value for Linear A *301 (the ‘slave’ or ‘acrobat’ sign). Since it is not an easy task to find the missing value (more on this in a later post), we have almost no clue of the meaning of this word. Unless we make a bold move and substitute a fitting Etruscan-Lemnian stem here. The best (given the context, and the rare *AI diphtongal cluster) appears to be the etruscan word-stem *AIS = “God, Divinity”. If so, the value for *301 needs to be of either the S- or the Z-series (perhaps *ZU). Notwithstanding, the reading for a libation text beginning with ‘This/The god…’ appears incorrect. Therefore we have to assume that whatever A-I-*301-… meant, was more of a “divine gift” or “divine sacrifice” than being simply ‘god’ or ‘gods’.

Image from The most peculiar Minoan sign ever seen http://minoablog.blogspot.com/2010/12/most-peculiar-minoan-sign-ever-seen.html

My note. Close to egyptian eye !! https://www.thoughtco.com/egyptian-symbol-gallery-4122787

https://www.thoughtco.com/egyptian-symbol-gallery-4122787 “the eye of Horus”

Linear B, sign “Zu?” From Richard Wallance’s blog, https://linearbknossosmycenae.com/category/lessons-linear-b/

Me: yes, “Zu” as P.I.E.-root “Di”>DIas/Zeu,Zou,Zu,Zeus:”light”

From Documents in Minoan, Luwian, Semitic and Pelasgian Fred Woudhuizen file:///C:/Users/User/Downloads/Documents_in_Minoan_Luwian_Semitic_and_P.pdf

“In their table of comparisons, Olivier & Godart plausibly propose the correspondence of CHIC038 “gate” to L32 ya, CHIC092 “horn” to L55 ru, and CHIC005 “eye” to L101 zu.”
49 …………… “This inference is further emphasized by the fact that the Cretan hieroglyphic “eye” sign is more remotely related to Luwian hieroglyphic *191, which depicts three pairs of eyes in a row and stands for the all-seeing sun-god, TIWATA, ti6—thus leading us to the syllabic value ti6 according to the acrophonic principle.56 “

Posted in Ancient civilisations, Epigraphy, ancient civilisations, Linguistics, PROTO-WRITING, Tartaria tablets | Leave a Comment »

Socoteala “sumeriana”, fazele Lunii in jumatatea superioara a tablitei rotunde ?

November 18, 2018

Atentie! Aceasta postare nu este o o descifrare sau citire a unui presupus continut scris real. Avand in vedere ca semnele nu apartin unui unic sistem de scris ci mai multora, pagina are un caracter pur didactic. Are rolul de a incerca si testa diferite scrieri in idea ca pe tablite s-ar fi folosit unul din ele. Semnele de pe tablite apartin mai multor sisteme de scrisi dintr-larg interval de timp si care au folosite in diferite arii geografice. In niciuna din incercari semnele nu s-au incadrat intr-un singur tip de scriere, totdeauna au ramas semne care au provenit din alte scrieri (sau din necunoscut). Cele mai multe semne provin din cele sumeriene proto-cuneiforme.Apoi privind asemanarea, in ordine descrescatoare este aceea cu semnele Linear A/B si cele Anatoliene. Semnele din jumatatea superioara a tablitei rotunde par a proveni din scrierea arhaica greceasca.Cel mai degraba aceasta “adunatura” de semne pare a fi rodul imaginatiei bogate a cuiva.Dupa cum au constatat A.Falkenstein si A.A.Vaiman, (aceasta fiind si parerea mea ferma) autorul nu a fost un scrib, avea doar vagi notiuni privind scrisul in general si nu se stie ce a urmarit. Exista multe elemente de neconcordanta precum si altele care scot tablitele din tiparele si normele uzuale ale logicii, scrisului si intentiilor oneste.

====== Socoteala “sumeriana”, fazele Lunii in jumatatea superioara a tablitei rotunde ?

Foarte multi cercetatori (vezi Adam Falkenstein, Aisek Abramovici Vaiman ) au avansat ipoteza ca scrisul tablitelor nu este sumerian autentic ci doar “de factura sumeriana”

Din http://aplaceofbrightness.blogspot.com/2008/11/moonlight-in-romania-tartaria-tablets_21.html https://1.bp.blogspot.com/_DT_WSLrf76g/SSNB43AQzMI/AAAAAAAAACw/HlxviXs54cw/s320/NE.JPG

DWritten Records.
1.Daca tablitele sant de inspiratie sumeriana, nu prea cred ca ar fi vorba de fazele lunii. Nu stiu din ce motiv, sumerienii nu au prea folosit in scris Luna ca si corp ceresc. Luna ca si corp ceresc era figurata in imagini ca si o secera in pozitia “tine apa”.Nu au avut termeni distictinti. Foloseau pentru Luna calendaristica/month si pentru Luna corp ceresc/Moon (Id,Idi,ITI/SuEN,Sin), semnul pentru soare, pe care aplicau numarul de 30 de zile.
http://enenuru.net/images/tat5b.jpg

Sau in scris ma simplu, (banuiesc ca pentru luna calendaristica/month) doar semnul “30”: https://www.bulgari-istoria-2010.com/Rechnici/Sumerian_Cuneiform_English_Dictionary_12.pdf
1230D <<< U+U+U | ESH / EŠ = 30 (numeric) | UŠU3 | SIN = moon

See “30” https://render.fineartamerica.com/images/rendered/default/metal-print/7.125/10.000/break/images-medium-5/sumerian-number-system-science-source.jpg

Nu au folosit deloc forma de literei D.Cat priveste “fazele lunii” singura aparitie de care stiu este o inscrptie din paleolitic din Europa (18.000 B.C.!).Asa ca strict d.p.d.v. al fazelor lunii aceste faze puteau sa fie figurate pe o intindere in timp (vechime) de multe mii de ani, pana inspre zilele noastre.Inafara de durata egala a ciclului Lunii cu cel menstrual, se pare ca cunostinte legate de fertilitate in cadrul ciclului menstrual (asa cum maimulti cercetatori au speculat) apar doar cu putin timp inaintea erei noastre.

2.Daca tablitele sant de influenta sumeriana, se pare ca nu ar prezenta nici numere

Ex.1 (socoteala proto-elamita):

Din http://chalaux.org/nmpduk01.htm
http://chalaux.org/nw2/imagenes/600px_Numbers_and_measures_-_09_Grain-ration_record_from_proto-elamite_Susa.jpg

GRAIN-RATION RECORD FROM PROTO-ELAMITE SUSA is read from right to left. The text begins with a «hairy triangle», thought to be the issuing authority. Next is a «plow» sign that is probably a field worker. The number signs that follow continue at the right of the bottom line: 1 X 60 + 3 X 10 + 3. Next is a sign like a sheaf of grain; it means barley. Last is a capacity number: 6 X 6 C + 1 C + 1 m. The sense is that 93 workers receive two minor units each (Source: Alan D. Iselin).
Noi avem la Tartaria semnul SUR (primul D) si ? posibil imitatii de numere sumeriene ?:(citire de la dreapta la stanga):semnele 00: (2×6=12C)unitati de capacitate
+ semnulD:D(“1 masura” m)
“12c+1m (12 unitati capacitate+1 masura ?”) Ex.2 Sumerian:
Imagine, https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQoEHV85C7yQBnL-K1v51vOx3TH7qxRGH3-h3-P1aN0q_3z_pSgbA sau

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/GIFnt4NGaOl5rca4fGZr1M6ie3UWo6aVI3kseaCfwuwY_el431MhFYe_DH2JtQNnMbaHnf8=s85

Retineti ca sumerienii puneau unitatile mari in stanga apoi descrescator spre dreapta; citirea o faceau de la stg. La dreapta
Asa avem si noi pe tablita :
Semnul SUR (primul D)si un numar Doo.
SUR https://cdli.ucla.edu/tools/SignLists/protocuneiform/archsigns.html https://cdli.ucla.edu/tools/SignLists/protocuneiform/archsigns/SUR.jpg ???

sur

(D-urile sant mai mari ca 0-urile! Deci D-ul este “60” si nu “1” iar o-urile nu sant mari,O=”3600” ci mici o=”10”:

Din A New Edition of the Proto-Elamite
Text MDP 17, 112 Laura F. Hawkins https://cdli.ucla.edu/pubs/cdlj/2015/cdlj2015_001.html https://cdli.ucla.edu/pubs/cdlj/2015/cdlj2015_001_fig/figure2.jpg

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRvzda1OQRx8LOC7za6exDDMcpjCiKBft2xxYVak_m6TmgZmx_puA

Figure 3.3: Relations between length measures on proto-cuneiform tablets

(1 nindan = 6 meters The basis of the system was the nindan, with a size of approximately six meters,)
SUR D(60) si oo (10 10)
? Sur 60 + 20 = sur 80 ?

Daca am fi avut numai numere, am fi avut:
D D o o = 1,1 10,10= 2 ,2o. dublul lui 20; 29×2 = 40
Automated joining of cuneiform tablet fragments – PURE – University of …
pure-oai.bham.ac.uk/ws/files/18271046/NABU_2014_4_DEF.pdf
….. und nimin „40“, was offensichtlich aus *niš-min „2 mal die 20“

Daca am scrie denumirea cifrelor http://it.stlawu.edu/~dmelvill/mesomath/Numerals.html:

MIN(2) Nis/ni(20) =NIMIN(40)…….iar ne lovim de sorok =40……..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sirara SIRARA6) was a temple complex in Lagash – it may also (or instead) have been a city as mentioned in The Royal Chronicle of Lagaš.[1] It has been suggested that the city-state known as Sirara was also called Nina or Nimin which was probably a seaport.[2]
Daca tablitele sant de inspiratie sumeriana, nu prea cred ca ar fi vorba nici de fazele lunii.

https://www.bulgari-istoria-2010.com/Rechnici/Sumerian_Cuneiform_English_Dictionary_12.pdf
1230D <<< U+U+U | ESH / EŠ = 30 (numeric) | UŠU3 | SIN = moon See “30”https://render.fineartamerica.com/images/rendered/default/metal-print/7.125/10.000/break/images-medium-5/sumerian-number-system-science-source.jpg Daca nu avem numai cifre, am inlocui cifrele cu denumirea lor. Am avea Sur giš/geš niš ?? 3.Atunci sa analizam semnele +++++ Dv D o o Semnele sumeriene sant: AS SUR Dis 2x LAGAB

Din https://cdli.ucla.edu/tools/SignLists/protocuneiform/archsigns.html ASZ2 https://cdli.ucla.edu/tools/SignLists/protocuneiform/archsigns/ASZ2.jpg

asz2

As:”unu , unul” Appendix:Sumerian Swadesh list – Wiktionary https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Sumerian_Swadesh_list 22, one, aš. 23, two, mina. introduction to sumerian grammar – ANE Languages.COM

Din http://www.anelanguages.com/SumerianGrammarFoxvog.pdf by DA FOXVOG – subject among other scholars specializing in Sumerian grammar. …… values such as sumun/sun “old,” súmun/ sún “wild cow,” sumur/súr “angry“,

Din https://cdli.ucla.edu/methods/sign_name.html Preferred Reading Sign Name Meaning sur SUR v. to divide, to press, to brew 4 Sumerian Phonology s155239215.onlinehome.us/…/42TurkicAndSumer/HamoriFSumerianPhonetics&soun… The basic pronunciation of the sounds of the Sumerian language, that is it’s “phonemes” and the key sound changes it ….. *śurwe > sar ~ šur=to stabb, pierce, insert;

V16.COMPARATIVE ENCYCLOPEDIC DICTIONARY OF MESOPOTAMIAN VOCABULARY …
https://books.google.ro › books Maximillien De Lafayette ·
Šúr: Sumerian. Adjective. a-Aggressive. b- Violent. c-Enraged. Súr: Sumerian. Adjective. a-Determined. b-Self-assured. Šur: Sumerian.…

the unity of hamito-semitic and sumerian language families 1 – Academia.edu
http://www.academia.edu › THE_UNITY_OF_…
204 3.5.1.15 Sumerian šur, sur “ to rain, to flow” 204 3.5.1.16 Sumerian
As-Sur:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assur#Name Aššur is the name of the city, of the land ruled by the city, and of its tutelary deity from which the natives take their name, as did the entire nation of Assyria

Nu este Dis:”unu” pentru ca cifrele in general erau facute prin imprimare.

Urma lasata pe lut pentru numarul 1/(“dis”) cam asa arata la sumerieni:

Dis:”unu”

Semnul GAR, din https://cdli.ucla.edu/tools/SignLists/protocuneiform/archsigns.html

GAR

Semnul gar in proto-cuneiform nu era imprimat ci zgariat si arata putin diferit: Din Historical Epistemology … semanticscholar.org

Doua semne Lagab=Nigin “intreg” engl.whole

reading sumerian names, ii: gilgameš – …
https://www.jstor.org › jcunestud.64.0003
by G Rubio · 2012 · Cited by 11 · Related articles
in Sumerian and Gilgameš in Akkadian. ….. LAGAB.LAGAB = nigin (niŋin) = nin3 in Ea 1: 46–47a (MSL 14, 178) and

Unicode Cuneiform Fonts – HPM Hethitologie-Portal Mainz
https://www.hethport.uni-wuerzburg.de › …
For Old Babylonian and Neo-Assyrian sign NIGIN (MeZL, n° 804) = LAGAB-LAGAB ( U121B8+ U121B8), we get

Chapter II – Springer Link
https://link.springer.com › content › pdf
interpreted as a contracted LAGAB.LAGAB. In all four … LAGAB.LAGAB – as nigin, “to make surround”, which gives some sense. In the

Nigin tellsurghul.org/Nigin.html
The ancient settlement of Nigin was part, with the cities of Girsu and Lagash,

The Vocabulary of Sumerian – jstor https://www.jstor.org/stable/592549
by JD Prince
etymological study of the Sumerian word-list is attended by. ‘ Die Entstehung des …… ‘canal,’ lit. ‘collection (nigin) of waters’ (Br. 11676). I The Babylonian .

V12.COMPARATIVE ENCYCLOPEDIC DICTIONARY OF MESOPOTAMIAN VOCABULARY …
https://books.google.ro/books?isbn=1312229934
Maximillien De Lafayette . Nigin: Sumerian. Noun. The whole amount. Nigin: Sumerian. 61.

Encyclopedia of Cosmology (Routledge Revivals): Historical, …
https://books.google.ro/books?isbn=131767765X
Norriss S. Hetherington
In this compound term, the Sumerian element “NIGIN” corresponds to the meaning”to move in circle” or “to encircle,” hence the semantic force of the whole encompassed by heaven and …

Nigin ;”intreg,tot”

+++++ AS
=
Dv D o o SUR Dis/Gar Nigin

Unul
Curge un intreg / ? o colectare/intreaga ploaie/rau

! Unul(zeitatea!)

Ploaie paiine tot !

=====================================================================
In sfertul din stanga al tabletei:
Din http://aplaceofbrightness.blogspot.com/2008/11/moonlight-in-romania-tartaria-tablets_21.html https://4.bp.blogspot.com/_DT_WSLrf76g/SSNBh8jnEpI/AAAAAAAAACo/C-ofWx7wKQs/s320/NWgrid.JPG

H D = Ku/Gu Gar?/Dis?

1.Ku Gar= ku ninda (semnul gar se citeste ninda:”cereale,paiine“)

Ninda-ku:”mananca paine”

2.Gad (deity) | Revolvy https://www.revolvy.com/page/Gad-%28deity%29
The English word god continues the Old English god (guþ, gudis in Gothic, guð in Old ..

2.Ku:”pur, sacru” ; dis;”unu”

“Unu,Cel Sacru” ——————————————————————————————————-

2018

Doua sau trei sisteme de scriere permit citirea celor 3 tablite pentru ca cuprind aproape toate semnele prezente pe tablite. Este vorba despre scrierile sumeriana,cea cretana si cariana. Singura scriere care cuprinde cele mai multe semne este cea sumeriana. In incercarile de citire am abordat cu egala deschidere fiecare scriere.Pacatul este ca daca prima nu mai prezinta multe necunoscute, in a doua se fac progrese in schimb nu prea exista specialisti pentru scrierea si limba cariana. Eu stiu ca exista doar unul in lume in varf, ADIEGO.

Cu toate ca am incercat sa fac citiri folosind sxrierea proto-cuneiforma sumeriana, inca am unele intrebari si nemultumiri.

– Daca cateva semne nu sant identice cu proto-cuneiformele (ex “D”), au fost imitate? Cine si cum le-a imitat ?.

– Daca au fost niste migranti din Orient, se pare ca au fost familii care nu s-au integrat complet in populatia locala.Banuiesc ca este vorba de meseriasi in prelucrarea metalelor proveniti di aria Gutium-Siria.

-Daca ar fi reale citirile acestea ultime, cum puteau sa faca referire la ei ca fiind peregrini? Singura explicatie ar fi ca gutii, mai putin avansati cultural au folosit termenii existenti in acel timp pentru ei !?

Motto:

“During my years of research, I observed that most scientists tend to “fall in love” with their own theories: and that is where trouble starts. After all, you should be critical with your own results, even more so than with the results of others. Only so can you ensure the quality of research you provide.”(ANDRAS ZEKE/Hu http://minoablog.blogspot.com/2012/

……asta inseamna ca revin.Inafara de o posibila citire cu zeitate ploaie “paiine”,” tot”,

va propun:

Sumerian / English doormann.tripod.com/engsum.htm

As-Hur/All-seeing-one AS-SUR”all seeing-one:/ONE WARRIOR

SUR DIL/DIS NIGIN

SUR DIL/DIS NIGIN

RAZBOINIC UN CALATOR/da roata !vedeti pe tablita cei doi “UN,unu” sant legati !!

V16.COMPARATIVE ENCYCLOPEDIC DICTIONARY OF MESOPOTAMIAN VOCABULARY …
https://books.google.ro › books Maximillien De Lafayette ·
Šúr: Sumerian. Adjective. a-Aggressive. b- Violent. c-Enraged. Súr: Sumerian. Adjective. a-Determined. b-Self-assured. Šur: Sumerian.…

Sumerian / English doormann.tripod.com/engsum.htm Warrior/Sur

niĝin [ENCIRCLE]. niĝin [TOTAL].

The Class Reunion—An Annotated Translation and Commentary on the …https://books.google.ro/books?isbn=9004302107

Cale Johnson, ‎Markham J. Geller… see tashiru sahharu (see sahhiru) turning (Kou 50) sahhirat āli = Sum. uru nigin roaming around the city’ 251 sahhirat duri = Sum. bad nigin roamingaround…

Sumerian Lexicon | Linguistic Typology | Linguistics – Scribdhttps://www.scribd.com/document/119559302/Sumerian-Lexicon gur 4-gur 4) [NIGINarchaic frequency: 11]. to surround. to halt. concatenation …Sumerian /

English doormann.tripod.com/engsum.htm … Nigin/Wander/(to) Nig-Inim-Bala/Interpretation

to wander {vb} https://en.bab.la/dictionary/english-romanian/wander RO ahoinări a cutreiera a vântura a umbla a străbate a pluti a ocoli a călători

Nigin “a calatori in jurul, a inconjura, a da tarcoale, a se vantura, a cutreiera, a hoinari”

2: MAN ; 20:NIS

Some Reflections on Numerals in Sumerian towards a History of … – jstor https://www.jstor.org/stable/601861 by IM Diakonoff

THE SUMERIAN NUMERALS HAVE MORE THAN ONCE since Samuel …. number of Middle Indian and Middle and Neo-Iranian … (a) without a suffix, as, e.g., I – /as/, 2 – /man,min/,.

MAN NIS> ?MANIS?

M. Murdock, Acharya S · 2014 · Religion Stele from MesopotamiaUr-Nammuwas the builder of the Great Ziggurat at Ur, the best … Ur-Nammu Menes/Manes, Manis and Mannus

Apoi DD oo = MIN NIS > ? MINIS ?

2(doi): “MIN” 20(douazeci):”NIS”

Neo Babylonian Sign Lists [CDLI Wiki] cdli.ox.ac.uk › wiki › doku › id=neo_ba… Mar 16, 2016 · Neo Babylonian Sign Lists. Work in progress. Filter: ….. Labat 471 / Borger 708, man, niš, ešra = 20.

2;20 = MIN NIS> MINIS

Mini (popolo) – WikiVividly
https://wikivividly.com › lang-it › wiki
Secondo la mitologia greca, i Mini – agg. minio, minia, minie, minii – (in greco Μινύες, ….. The adjective indigenous is derived from the Latin word indigena, which is based on the

MINIS, Μινύες,. minoans !?? ————————————————————————–

In stanga, semnele Ku GAR= ku ninda= ninda ku Ninda-ku:”mananca paine”

PDF] old akkadian writing and grammar – Oriental Institute – University of … https://oi.uchicago.edu/pdf/mad2.pdf

Aug 6, 2010 … NINDA KU “they eat bread” (= Sumerian ninda {-ku -e; cf. also the .

………CE PARERE AVETI ?

Posted in Epigraphy, ancient civilisations, History, LINEAR A/B, PROTO-CUNEIFORM, PROTO-WRITING, Tartaria tablets, Vinca-Turdas culture | Leave a Comment »

“On the quasy-sumerian tablets from Tartaria”,author A.A.Vaiman,with my comments.

August 26, 2018

Careful/ Attention ! This post is not a successful decipherment or reading of any actual written content of Tartaria tablets. Given that the signs do not belong to a single writing system but to several, the page has a purely didactic character. It has the role of trying and testing different writings, in the idea that the tablets would have used one of them. The signs on the tablets belong to several writing systems over a long period of time and which have been used in different geographical areas. In none of the trials did the signs fall into a single type of writing, there always remained signs that came from other writings (or as coming from the unknown). Most of the signs come from the Sumerian proto-cuneiform ones. The signs in the upper half of the round tablet seem to come from archaic Greek writing. This “collection” of signs seems to be the fruit of one’s rich imagination. As A. Falkenstein and A. A. Vaiman found, (this is also my firm opinion) the author was not a scribe, he had only scarce knowledge of writing in general, and it is not known what he intended or he was after. There are many elements of inconsistency as well as others that take the tablets out of the logics, usual patterns and norms of writing or honest intentions.

First of all, one of the most autoritative persons in archaeology, MASSON in his turn is considering Mr. A.A.Vaiman at the highest level in the field of proto-cuneiform writing:

В.М. Массон. Взаимодействие культур и культурная интеграция

V. M. Masson. Interaction of cultures and cultural integration http://www.archeo.ru/izdaniya-1/archaeological-news/annotations-of-issues/arheologicheskie-vesti.-spb-1994.-vyp.-3.-annotacii

“An appreciable shift occurred in the early agricultural period, when societies which had attained similar levels of cultural and intellectual development displayed considerable receptivity to integrational processes. Yet here as well the “rejection” is evident. If the decoding of the famous tablets from the early agricultural site of Tartaria, Romania, proposed by A. A. Weiman, one of the world’s most authoritative experts in Proto-Sumerian texts (see this issue), is correct, a highly peculiar picture emerges. In the depth of the early agricultural Balkan area with its remarkable achievements in the artistic and intellectual domains a stable complex is found which is related to the temple structures of the Sumerian civilization. No matter whether the kulturtrager from Uruk had actually built their temple somewhere in the vicinity or whether we have before us a unique case of import having no pragmatic value, it is absolutely clear that these hallmarks of urban civilization had in no way been integrated into the system of early agricultural communities, which, in my opinion, had achieved the initial stage of the early complex society. Numerous and diverse signs found on the artefacts from the early agricultural Balkan sites are doubtless related to some symbolic and magic system, but do not represent a system of writing, which is a phenomenon different, in quality. So the Proto-Sumerian prototype did not in any way affect the local society, which was probably content with the available systems of storage and transmission of information (probably the oral and the artistic ones).”

I DO NOT UNDERSTAND, how it is possible that one of the most autoritative expert wich I expected to be a master over Proto-Sumerian texts (A.A.Vaiman) is hesitating and not identify correct some signs (an preffer not to make comments on interpreting other some of them) E.g.: “The abundance of numerals on the tablets indicates that the latter were economical documents. The meaning of the numerals and of some other signs may be quite safely established by the meaning of their Sumerian prototypes. A certain degree of caution, however, is required since the borrowed signs could have some shades of meanings or even new meanings which were not inherent in their prototypes.” Note I will be more cautious. E.g.,the sign “D” would be number 1 or number 60 (when depicted big is 60) so could mean 1, or Dis/Dil wich is the word for “one” and could mean “one(god)” also is close in shape with the sign GAR wich mean “grain-portion/bread“

My blogspot.com coments are here:

https://tartariawriting.blogspot.com/b/post-preview?token=3a2Hd2UBAAA.hOPzmhHP_1LrLB3kizpPjf2ZKPknKdVv2X9k9ciN164vOnkmaE618qclBK6ZKenyGyo5u7nMao7eW7Jd_YLYlw.4mGocgBvKUh59aDFnryqew&postId=7956659482178171483&type=PAGE

А.А. Вайман. О квазишумерских табличках Тэртэрии

A. Vaiman.On the Quasi-Sumerian tablets from Tartaria

http://www.archeo.ru/izdaniya-1/archaeological-news/annotations-of-issues/arheologicheskie-vesti.-spb-1994.-vyp.-3.-annotacii#section-22

In russian language: http://www.archeo.ru/izdaniya-1/archaeological-news/arheologicheskie-vesti/AV_03.pdf/view

http://www.archeo.ru/izdaniya-1/archaeological-news/arheologicheskie-vesti/AV_03.pdf

In 1963 N.VIassa published a paper with a description of three baked clay tablets which were found during his excavations in Tàrtâria, Transylvania, Roumania (figs.1-3). On one of them (fig.l) https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT645MJ7vWg1XAIxdCQWXcqkA6u9XKPlWFGlvxmYWd2Nq0ik_6vVg

Image result for tartaria tablets fig.1

a tree is depicted with two animals standing on its sides. The researcher compared this representation with the impression of a Sumerian seal. Two other tablets (figs.2,3) carry signs, many of which, according to Vlassa, are either identical with, or very similar to, those inscribed on the tablets from Uruk IV (early Proto-Sumerian script).

Image result for tartaria tablets fig.2

Image result for tartaria tablets fig.3

The sensational find has gained a wide publicity. The most significant paper that has appeared so far is that by А.Falkenstein who has basically supported Vlassa’s conclusions. Falkenstein has compared the Tàrtâria tablets with those from layer III in Uruk and Jemdet-nasr (late proto-Sumerian script) using a number of criteria, such as clay, format, stylus, structure of the text, signs. He has proved beyond doubt that the script of the Tàrtâria tablets had been directly influenced by the proto-Sumerian script. At the same time, the tablets have not been studied in sufficient detail yet.

The present article is yet another attempt at studying the Tartaria tablets. It offers more accurate tracings of certain signs; also, a new attempt is made to identify the Tartaria signs with both early and late versions of the proto-Sumerian ones (see our list on fig.4); some characteristics of the Tartaria script are discussed, providing a possibility to assess the degree of their independence with respect to the proto-Sumerian script; a tentative interpretation is suggested for both the separate records and the texts in general.

A.A.Vaiman’s table, from http://www.archeo.ru/izdaniya-1/archaeological-news/arheologicheskie-vesti/AV_03.pdf

Dlr0EirU0AEfo7c

First and foremost, according to published photographs, the copies of the tablets need to be corrected. The most important corrections are as follows. Tablet 2: 11, sign No.9 (fig.4): the cuneiform oblique dash (fig.2) is not shown. Tablet 2: V, sign No. 10 (fig.4): the middle horizontal incision (fig.3) is not shown; III and IV: the dividing incisions (fig.3) are not shown. It appears that the published copies have been made from the photographs rather than from the tablets themselves.

We have already mentioned that three of the Tartaria signs (Nos.9, 10, and 16) have been incorrectly identified by Falkenstein.

In sign No.9, the oblique dash has not been taken into account, and its presence makes it impossible to identify this sign with the proto-Sumerian sign No.260 (Falkenstein, 1936). Rather, it should be identified with the proto-Sumerian sign No.214 (Falkenstein, 1936).

Sign No. 10 has been identified with the proto-Sumerian sign No.810 (or 543, see Falkenstein, 1936); however, the latter has two vertical lines inside, which are absent in the Tartaria sign. The identification given in our list is self-evident.

Sign No. 16, for no apparent reason, has been identified with the proto-Sumerian sign No.753 (Falkenstein, 1936), although, judging by the context, it should doubtless be identified with the proto-Sumerian number No.905 (Falkenstein, 1936).

As to sign No.l, in the published copy of tablet 2 (fig.2) it looks like two angles (see I 2, fig.4). The horizontal line is admittedly vague; yet its traces are evident in the photograph, which indicates that this sign should be identified with the similar sign of tablet 3, I 1 (fig.4).

Altogether, sixteen of the eighteen Tartaria signs have been identified with the proto-Sumerian ones. Perhaps in the future it will be possible to find proto-Sumerian prototypes for the two remaining signs as well.

Because signs Nos.2, 4, 6, and 10 of the Tartaria tablets (fig.4) have only early proto-Sumerian parallels, it may be assumed that other Tartaria signs, too, were borrowed from the early, rather than from the late, proto-Sumerian script.

It has already been mentioned that not just the signs (possibly all of them) were borrowed, but other things as well, including the material for writing, the rectangular or round shape of the tablets (the latter occurs, although rarely, in layer IV of Uruk), the manner in which the text is divided into parts by means of vertical and horizontal incisions, and the technique of writing. However, the borrowed elements are transformed in such a way that one should speak of an independent Tartarian script rather than of a Tartarian version of the proto-Sumerian script. First and foremost, people who created this script, in contrast to the Sumerians, used only knife-shaped styluses.

The Tartarian script differs from the proto-Sumerian one also in the construction of the texts. Each of the two texts is divided into columns by a vertical incision, and each column is divided into lines by horizontal incisions (table 3, V, provides an exception, see fig.3). In each collumn, the first line from the top contains a number and what is probably the name of the thing counted, while the second line is composed of one to three signs which are not numbers (see tablet 3, I, fig.3, for an exception) and which explicate the numeric record of the top line. As it has been stated above, such a construction is not possible for the proto-Sumerian texts, in which just one line would suffice. Horizontal incisions on Tartaria tablets are situated directly under the signs of the top lines, which is never the case on the proto-Sumerian tablets.

Signs on the Tartaria tablets are arranged so that they fill up all the available space, creating an impression of a completed text. It is especially evident on table 3 (fig.3), where the signs of the top lines are situated quite close to the upper margin, while the signs of the bottom lines come close to the lower margin; as a result, free space is left above the signs in columns II, III, and IV. Such an arrangement of signs is not observed in proto-Sumerian texts.

Certain important differences between the Tartarian script and the proto-Sumerian one are related to the orientation of various elements. Nearly a half of Tartarian signs (Nos.l, 2, 3, 7, 9, 15, 16, 18) are rotated 90 degrees anticlockwise relative to their Sumerian prototypes (fig.4). Admittedly, such rotation occurs also in the early proto-Sumerian script, but these cases are exceptional.

While in proto-Sumerian texts the higher-order digits are placed above the lower-order ones, making up a column, in tablet 2, II 1, of Tartaria (fig.2) higher-order digits are situated to the left of the lower-order ones, making up a line. It would be natural to suppose that such a line was read from the left to the right. It is quite likely that all signs written in a line on the Tartaria tablets were read in a left-to-right fashion (see tablet 2: I 1,2; И 1,2, see fig.2); but being arranged vertically, they were read from top to bottom (tablet 2: I 2, II 1,2, see fig.2; tablet 3: V, sec fig.3). The columns were probably read in the same way as the digits in a line, from left to right. It should be reiterated that in proto-Sumerian texts signs within lines, except digits, are scattered in an apparently random order, while the adjacent columns are read from the right to the left.

Finally, in contrast to what is seen in proto-Sumerian texts, numerical designations in Tartaria tablets do not always precede the non-numerical ones. Thus, in line I i of tablet 2 (fig.2) the numerical symbol is placed to the right of the non-numerical sign, while in line II 1 of the same tablet it is situated below, so in both instances the non-numerical sign precedes the numerical one. Taking into consideration the proto-Sumerian parallels, non-numerical signs in these lines may be interpreted as designations of the things that were counted. All the above brings us to the conclusion that in the language of the Tartarian tablets the names of the things counted apparently precede the respective numerals, or, more generally, the names of the defined things precede the definitions.

The abundance of numerals on the tablets indicates that the latter were economical documents. The meaning of the numerals and of some other signs may be quite safely established by the meaning of their Sumerian prototypes. A certain degree of caution, however, is required since the borrowed signs could have some shades of meanings or even new meanings which were not inherent in their prototypes.

Tablet 2 (fig.2). I 1. Sign No.9 (fig.4) may denote an agricultural worker. A.A.Vaiman’s table from http://www.archeo.ru/izdaniya-1/archaeological-news/arheologicheskie-vesti/AV_03.pdf

Dlr0EirU0AEfo7c Sign No. 15 (fig.4) is a numeral (originally sixty; however, after having been borrowed. it could acquire the meaning of the respective key numeral in the decimal system, one hundred).

I 2. The two upper signs, Nos.3 and 1 (fig.4) may mean (left to right) “given” (“distributed”) and “barley”, respectively, and sign No.7 (fig.4) below it, “supervisor”.

II 1. The upper sign, No.2 (fig.4) means “goat” or “sheep” (one specimen). Below it, there is a row of numerals: 600, 60, 10, 10, the total amount being 680 (or 1000, 100, 10, 10, totalling 1120). All together may signify 680 (or 1120) head of goats (or sheep).

II 2. The central sign in the line is No.5 (the meaning of the respective proto-Sumerian sign is not known), and to the right of it, two signs, No.ll, “sun”, “daytime”, “white”, and No.8, “sanctuary”. The combination of the two latter signs may be read as LARSA, the name of the Sumerian town.

So the inscription on tablet 2 may be tentatively read as follows: 11,2 Sixty (or one hundred) agricultural workers, BA.SE, supervisor.

II 1, 2 Six hundred and eighty (or 1120) head of goats (or sheep).

SA (name?), LARSA (?)

Tablet 3 (fig.3). On this tablet, numerals are present only in the middle three columns, II, III, and IV. I 1. Sign No.l (fig.4): “barley” (or, more generally, “grain”). I 2. Sign No. 13 (fig.4) cannot be identified with any proto-Sumerian prototype. II 1. Sign No.18 (fig.4), “one”, repeated five times and thus meaning “five”. II 2. Sign No.10 (fig.4). This sign is identified with an early proto-Sumerian sign, which, however, has not been identified with any sign in the later script. It appears likely that columns I and II should be viewed together: I 1, “grain”, I 2, a cubic measure; II 1, “five”; II 2, a name or a position of a person.

III 1, 2, and IV, 1, 2. The two top lines in both columns contain the same sign, No.12 (fig.4). Apparently, in early proto-Sumerian texts the respective sign already denoted a cubic measure, SILA, probably that of oil. In the Tartaria tablet, this sign, judging by the context, also stands for a cubic measure of some product. The bottom lines of the columns contain signs Nos.4 (its meaning is unknown) and 6, “calf”. Like the sign in the bottom line II, these signs probably signify a person’s name or position.

The column is not divided into lines, and does not contain numerals. There are two (or three?) signs,Nos. 14 and 10(fig.4), the latter one being the same as that which occurs in line II 2. These signs evidently summarize the contents of all the preceding columns. Thus labtet 3 admits of the following interpretation:

I 1, 2 Of grain… (an unknown measure). II 1, 2 Five (to such-and such). HI 1, 2 One SILA (cubic measure),… (to such-and-such). IV 1, 2 One SILA (cubic measure),… (to such-and-such). V … No other clay tablets with inscriptions have so far been discovered in Tartaria, and the distribution area of this script is not known. The specimens described were found not in archives, but in a pit, which the excavator believed to be ritual. Before having been placed in the pit, the tablets probably served as amulets. This would explain the presence of holes in two of the specimens (figs.2 and 3). Apparently, strings were passed through these holes to suspend the tablets.

So the tablets described attest to the existence in Tartaria of an original script based on prolo-Sumerian prototypes. The belief that this script was invented prior to the proto-Sumerian one and influenced it, is totally unfounded.

Because the Tartaria signs derive from early proto-Sumerian ones present on tabiets from Uruk layer IV, the Tartaria script apparently emerged in the last quarter of the 4th Millennium ВС. Nothing definite can be said as to where it was invented, but this hardly happened in Transylvania. More likely, its homeland was an area closer to Iraq. Functionally, the tablets were obviously economical documents.

MY COMENTS:

Related to pure pictographic tablet,

“On one of them (fig.l) a tree is depicted with two animals standing on its sides.”

Corrected:”vegetal motif,possible ear grain or tree” Corrected: two goats Not slightest mention of the “ghost-like” silhuette

! Autor not mention a possible relation of this tablet with the other twoo !!

Related to the other twoo tablets,

First, based on suposition that there are written there numbers and from this that it is about an economical/accounting tablet, partly could be correct, but the author not extract the ultimate possible meanings from the signs inscribed, nor realised that on the tablets there are long deep in time of paramount importance religion-related icons.

So I sugest, or even stressing that the tablets possible are not limited to an strictly economical aspect, but could be related to an religious (offering) ritual !

So, the reading and interpretation of the tablets are quite rude “on the surface” if one don’t mind.

I don’t know how to find,post and ad my comments on the fig.4 figure (table), so with my great excuses and apologise,

I underlined with red the statements and findings with wich I not agree or consider inacurate or even wrong.

With orange those wich I am not sure if correct , or posibility to be corect or not.

With blue, agreement

I aded the last column with my adnotations (rom.”NU” is NO!)

40259624_662678484130956_3567941027706699776_n

—————– REVIEW OF fig. 4/ (table) VAIMAN’S SIGNS INTERPRETATION ——————— NOTE WHEN ONE SIGN IS CORRECT IDENTIFIED (+) BUT NOT INTERPRETED (-), I WILL CONSIDER THAT THE READING IS NOT DONE,(no gain,no advance); CAUSE A READING IS SUPPOSING TO GRASP THE MESSAGE FROM SIGNS TO MEANING.

SIGN No/tablet No, his interpretation my interpretation yes/no

1/2,3 >->-> Se Se,barley,grain YES

2/2 maS(sal) ASZ(As) barley,grain NO

3/2 Ba; sign found.not interpreted share,portion, wages,give,distribute +/–

4/3 not corectly found (sign name!?)& not interpreted “sky-god.Sun-God” NO

5/2 Sa (not interpreted) SZA,Sa “dry up“;?cord,string? +/ –

6/3 amar not interpreted “calf,bull God,Sun-God” +/ –

7/2 pa supervisor pa2/nigin “gift given YES

8/2 ab not interpreted “temple,shrine” +/ –

9/2 apin Ku base,found,build/pure,noble/eat NO !

10/3 not interpreted Ab temple,shrine yes say YES

11/2 ud ; yes, not interpreted sun/samas +/ –

12/3 sila not correct identified sum.sign bad,pap (signif.””bad”) NO

14/3 not identified Bull ?Hi/lagab-bar-bar? NO

15 geS could be dis/dil “1” or ges:”60” YES

16 “D” gesxu same sign ?60×2=120 or 2×1=2 ? (.. YES )

17/2 not identified sum. u :”10″ 2x10=20 NO

18/3 sign > one (1) YES

——————————————————————————————-

sign “>>” not identified RU:”gift,present,give,send” NO

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

TOTAL “BLUE” (correct) ~ 6

TOTAL “RED” (WRONG) ~ 7

!! The autor no take in account long-time of paramount importance of sumerian and minoan icons related to their religion and rituals. (AN, Bull(sun-God,Labrys,etc.) !!

Posted in Ancient civilisations, LINEAR A/B, PROTO-CUNEIFORM, PROTO-WRITING, Tartaria tablets | Leave a Comment »

ETEOCRETAN. What? Why !? What have to do with our tablets?

April 21, 2018

Here is not the place nor wasting your time explaining what is ETEOCRETAN 2. Out of my intention to bother you or get to in a much complex situation. From http://www.carolandray.plus.com/Eteocretan/archaic_alpha.html : The sibilants Greek also did not have the range of sibilant consonants that the Semitic languages had, and the use and naming of these consonants shows confusion on the part of the Greeks. The old Phoenician alphabet has four sibilants:

zai whose sound was /z/. It was used from the start to represent a sound which varied in the Greek dialects thus: [dd] ~ [zd] ~ [zz] (see ‘Phonemic Values of Archaic Letters‘ below).
semk  whose sound was /s/. It is found in some of the archaic alphabets as an alternative way of writing . It was later used in eastern Ionian alphabets to denote /ks/, but this usage is not attested in any of the archaic alphabets nor known in the alphabets of the western Greeks. The letter occurs in the Praisos #1 inscription and is discussed in the next two sections below.

Phonemic Values of Archaic Letters   zai (zeta): the sound denoted by this symbol seems to have varied in different Greek dialects. Some instances of classical ζ derive from earlier /sd/, e.g. ἵζω (hizo) “I seat” ← *si-sd-ō (cf. Latin: sīdō). The majority of cases, however, derive from a earlier */dj/, */gj/ suggesting that sound denoted by ‘z’ in transcriptions of Mycenaean Linear B was /dj/ or an affricate such as [ʤ] or [ʣ]. It would seem, however, that in the archaic and classical periods, by a process of assimilation or metathesis, the sound varied in the dialects between [dd], [zd] and [zz] with the latter becoming the norm by the Hellenistic period and giving way eventually to the modern Greek [z].

In Cretan Greek [dd] was the norm and the spelling δδ is also found. But there appears to have been a tendency in Crete to devoice this combination as ττ is also found for standard Greek ζ; indeed, we also occassionally find actual /tt/ spelled ζ.

For the above, see: M. Lejeune, Phonétique historique du Mycénien et du Grec ancien, Paris, 1972, pp112 sqq.; W.S. Allen, Vox Graeca, Cambridge UK, 1968, pp. 53 sqq.; C.D. Buck, The Greek Dialects, Chicago, 1955, p. 71 sq., and pp. 313 sqq. However, the letter  does not occur in any of the extant Eteocretan texts, so it may not directly concern us here, unless….

semk:

is found on Praisos #1. As stated above, we can discount the value /ks/ given to this symbol by the Ionians. It would be a gross anachronism to find it used this way in a late 7th century or early 6th century inscription from Crete. There are only two credible possibilities:

As in some other local scripts, it is merely used as a variant of and, therefore, presumably denotes either /dd/ or /tt/.
It really is semk and is being used to represent a sibilant not known in contemporary Greek. The clear presence of Ϝσ (ws)on Praisos #3 may indicate that Eteocretan possessed a labialized sibilant [sʷ]]. —————————————————————————————————- That’s why, out of +++++ DDoo signs we could have: [sʷ]… 1. Syrroo>syrrou :” of Syros,Syrian” as Hera Syrou:”Lady of Syros,or Syrian Lady”.Apropos of “Syrian Lady” this could be begining (sory about large time-ecart) one from A-SA-SA-RA to “Syrian woman” from Bible book wich supposed brought Christianism in Europe. 2. even Su(“your”) DDoo>DDou=DZOU. So to have not “kind of tetragrammaton” but TETRAGRAMMATON in 4 letters D D O O. That’s why when get a string through both tablets (superpose holes ) the squared table cover the upper half text (fact noticed by Mr.Marco Merlini).So the sacred name is hidden!
And we could have as entire half of the round tablet:
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTffDJb0etLO9J16j4gr1-lF_bNB4DZURneRyT6jHPetGJe7v6h
History of the letter h. The letter H may have started as a picture sign of a fence, as in very early Semitic writing used about 1500 BCE on the Sinai Peninsula (1). About 1000 BCE, in Byblos and other Phoenician and Canaanite centres, the sign was given a linear form (2), the source of all later forms. The sign was called cheth in the Semitic languages, which may have meant “fence.” The sound expressed by the cheth sign stood for a pharyngeal sound which is not found in the English language. The Greeks renamed the sign eta and used it in two functions—first for the consonant h and then for the long vowel e (3). The Romans took over the form H (4), with the sound value of the English h.
HP/HD? (Heta,consonant eta!/Eta)-Rho; DDOO: EDE DiDou! :”GIVE(us) EAT“
HEROS,(Hera?) DiDou! :”LORD(Lady?) GIVE US(..daily bread) (the root
Note:*hed is common for edo,lat.gr.:”I eat” ede!:”eat!” edible etc. and alb.Ed lat.ede:”kid-goat!” hedus, gr. hedus pleasant,sweet) or:
HEROS DDOU/DZOU/ZOU/ZEUS :”LORD GOD-ZEUS“
……………….and now you see,understand why I took your time.Also hope understand my obstination to use “our (Balkan)signs” not “their (sumerian) signs”
Also you have kind of gift, as to see,

derive from a earlier */dj/, */gj/ suggesting that sound denoted by ‘z’ in transcriptions of Mycenaean Linear B was /dj/ or an affricate such as [ʤ]

How the VERY INDO-EUROPEAN ROOT Di=”light” was transmited through time in the name of GOD ———————————————————————————————-Ariel D.T. Stamped Amphora Handles from Tel Mikhal (Tel Michal …

http://www.academia.edu/…/Ariel_D.T._Stamped_Amphora_Handles_from_Tel_Mikhal_T…

The Temple of Apollo Bassitas: The architecture

https://books.google.ro/books?isbn=0876619464

Frederick A. Cooper – 1992 – ‎Architecture

… heta-rho as B P, or Ionic eta–rho as HP. The distinction between long epsilon and eta is not to be taken as a chronological indicator but as a geographical one. The combined letters must then represent a word or name, irjp ,25 because there is no suitable ordinal or word denoting position. Hera or hero are possibilities, .

Table of archaic Cretan alphabet of Dreros and Praisos http://www.carolandray.plus.com/Eteocretan/archaic_alpha.html

Semitic name	᾽alf	bēt	gaml	delt	hē	wau	zai	ḥēt	ṭēt	jōd	kaf
Archaic Cretan character			,	,			, ()			,
Standard Greek transliteration	α	β	γ	δ	ε	ϝ	ζ	η	θ	ι	κ
Modern Roman transliteration	a	b	g	d	e	w	z	ē	tʰ	i	k

Semitic name

lamd

mēm

nūn

semk

῾ain

pē

ṣādē

qōf

rōš

šīn

tau

(wau)

Archaic Cretan
character

(not
used)

Standard Greek
transliteration

ζ?

Modern Roman
transliteration

Note Till nowdays the Di particle in the name of God scarcely remained as “DD” : In sicilian, From: Complete List of Keywords www.dieli.net › Proverbs › ProvKeyWds Ddiu n.m. God. Also: Diu. Ddò n.m. title, honorific
From https://books.google.ro › books
Pasquale Scialò, Francesca Seller, Anthony R. DelDonna · 2015 · Music
Furthermore, the word “dio” is pronounced [ ddìo]; “dio” also doubles in Neapolitan. ... indicate something significant while avoiding mention of the name of God), “Ddio” (God …

Tags:Eteocretan, History, Linguistics, Tartaria tablets
Posted in Ancient civilisations, Blogroll, History, Linguistics, PROTO-WRITING, Tartaria tablets, Vinca-Turdas culture | Leave a Comment »

SOME CONCLUSIONS ABOUT TARTARIA TABLETS !

April 20, 2018

Careful/ Attention ! This post is not a decipherment or reading of any actual written content of Tartaria tablets. Given that the signs do not belong to a single writing system but to several, the page has a purely didactic character. It has the role of trying and testing different writings, in the idea that the tablets would have used one of them. The signs on the tablets belong to several writing systems over a long period of time and which have been used in different geographical areas. In none of the trials did the signs fall into a single type of writing, there always remained signs that came from other writings (or as coming from the unknown). Most of the signs come from the Sumerian proto-cuneiform -shaped ones. The signs in the upper half of the round tablet seem to come from archaic Greek writing. This “collection” of signs seems to be the fruit of one’s rich imagination. As A. Falkenstein and A. A. Vaiman found, (this is also my firm opinion) the author was not a scribe, he had only vague notions about writing in general, and it is not known what he intended or he was after. There are many elements of inconsistency as well as others that take the tablets out of the usual patterns and norms of honest logic, writing and intentions. =====

This is the result of my some 12 years of work. You must understand that I was many times in situations like to see in the depths of oceans the remains of the supposed Atlantida, also in half-awaken times forgotten signs,sounds and words come to connect by itselfs. In one of the latest days the sky become cristal-clear, as one could see the tinest blinking stars, an I had a perspective, kind of overall wiew or landscape on entire matter. Hope not kind of illusion/fata Morgana! ——————————————————————————————————————– Read more: http://www.city-data.com/forum/history/2004509-first-civilisation-world-originated-balkans.html#ixzz5EFpnyKyJ “The Danubian Neolithical cultures that makes the so-called Dabunian Civilisation (Vinca-Turdaș, Criș, Hamangia, Cucuteni, Gumelnița, Boian etc) were in fact the offsprings of migrations from Anatolia and Fertile Crescent toward Europe of early agricultors and the Vinca-Turdaș script, while the oldest system of writing in the world, didn’t developed in a large scale practice, there are no more than some hundreds discoveries of pottery shards and other pieces bearing (usually only one) such signs and the society wasn’t yet highly structured and hierarchized like the Sumerian one. And perhaps more important, the Vinca-Turdaș script was an isolated phenomenon, it disappeared with the end of this material culture (with some echos perhaps in the later Cucuteni culture).”

From https://aleximreh.wordpress.com/2011/01/01/the-new-york-times-a-lost-european-culture-vlassa-tartaria-striga-istoria-sub-noi-oameni-buni/#comment-6635 : Sa nu ma atacati inainte de a trece o noapte. Nu stiu exact cum s-a intamplat, insa doar oasele au fost datate cu C14.Rezultatul este ca 99% din cercetatorii din lume stiu ca tablitele au fost datate.In consecinta,toti acestia iau de buna varsta de 5200 BC.Mai rau este ca toti incep sa-si modifice teoriile legate de neoliticul European si despre istoria Scrisului. Varsta aceasta poate sau nu fi adevarata. Insa toti ar trebui sa stie ca nu tablitele au fost datate ci numai oasele! In (forensic science) criminalistica vasta unui obiect nu se translateaza ca fiind aceeasi cu varsta unui alt obiect,chiar aflat in imediata vecinatate! Dupa cate am inteles in arheologie cand se poate cand nu, de cele mai multe ori da.Nu uitati ca in situl arheologic a fost haloimesul de pe lume.Nu s-a lucrat cf. tehnicilor actuale.asa daca ne gandim puteau pica din zeci de cm de mai sus.(Unii zic ca se lucra “la norma” si posibil Vlassa a luat tablitele din miile de obecte de-a lui Szofia Torma)Nimeni in lume si nicaieri nu a luat cineva vre-un pix in mana (cuneus) inainte de 3200-3500 BC.Nici macar ca sa faca tablite pictografice, darmite cu semne! Cu respect, ing. Eugen Rau Timisoara

I not agree the folowing!:The Hittites Quote:

Originally Posted by CARPATHIAN

The European population of Turdaș-Vinča culture discovered the writing and the metallurgy for the first time in human history and brought these discoveries to Mesopotamia where the Vinča Script was developed into the Cuneiform Script and the Sumerian culture has reached higher levels of development because of the hierarchization of society that brought the possibility of erecting imposing temples and cities. ———————————————————————————————————– regarding tablet’s age: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk%3AT%C4%83rt%C4%83ria_tablets So many questions

Radiocarbon dating – is it applicable to clay? Where are the tablets now? —Ghirla^-трёп- 04:13, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

No, it isn’t. Radiocarbon dating may only be applied to organic artifacts. The original Tartaria tablets were of dried, unbaked clay. The Romanian scientists baked them in an oven, to avoid their decay, but any subsequent dating by thermoluminescence (which is the usual method for the age determnation of ceramic artifacts) became impossible.–Mazarin07(talk) 23:38, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

– Now I am taking all the risks on me, for the folowing results of my assertion, and I am taking all my responsability as to say:

Even the tablets could be easily interpreted using quite large proto-sumerian sign library, wich permit to interpret and read the tablets in sumerian way, my conclusion wich push me or on top of the wave or get me completely drawned,

the tablets are not written in proper-sumerian even they could be related to.
they pertain to Anatolian->Aegean aerea
are not so old as supposed
some-how present knoledge of deep-in-time meaning of ancient basic issues by meaning of related icons (as mother earth=labryus=orion constellation) signs
have roots in ancient Aegean area;we have supposed refference points in ideas as Hera, Heros, Osiris, Sun and aster/star-related gods and deities.
The squared tablet is only reflecting by far those past ancient religious knoledge by meaning of direct-related icons.
there are signs on the tablets that are related and folowing some-how the sounds as in rebus principle.
the tablets were not written in much or not so ancient time as supposed to be (out of any discussion even as a joke 5.200 B.C.)No one had in hand a cuneus/stick before 3.200B.C. even as to get some pictographic tablet.
If true, carbon-dating of the bones 5.200B.C. then the deceased had not much to do or related to tablets. ! In forensic no way to atribute the age of an object to another even when found near !
the supposed writer had in-depth knoledge of the meaning of the much, old-before time used icons.
I suppose that the tablets writer had come from Aegean area, more exactly from the center of Cyclades (eg.Syros).Possible as an afteward Thera explosion migrant, but not 100% sure,cause there is posibility that only a bounch of Cycladic artefacts to be brought,not necessary the presence of a person from Cyclades.
Green colour in the folowing Map from The Risch-Chadwick Theory: An Obstacle to Progress by J. Faucounau
Member of the Linguistic Society of Paris, France http://www.anistor.gr/english/enback/v013.htm
the writer really could be kind of priestess and as consequence have knoledge of writing, (and don’t know why wanted to show or to learn som
ebody )the writing or human-kind knoledge evolution.
The squared tablet as,& the underside half of the round tablet it is not necesary and not sure that are containing specyphic direct-readable messages.
As Mr.Marco Merlini was first to notice the upper half of the round tablet was intended to be completely covered by squarred-one, this supposed to contain secret message or knoledge. + I am suposing as a true posibility that could contain the name of God in a form or another and as in Near-East the true name cannot be pronounced was hidden in kind of tetragrammaton!
So out of upper half of the round tablet all the rest of the signs in round and squarred tablet could be supposed from a modern perspective seen close to redundant (not giving clear information!)and are containing general ideas/meanings.Exemple :sign in right-down quadrant,situated on left (red colour):”ALTAR”?.
Image from http://www.donsmaps.com/cuina.html
1 – Donja Branjevina, after S. Karmanski 2005, Plates XI, XXXIX, XLIII, XLIV, XLIX, LIV;
“IF” the tablets (only as a hypothetical situation !) pertain to Minoan/Early Aegean area and coresponding period of time, situation will become increasily hard as to the point that one cannot understand the written message even if one could read it, because the language is almost completely unknown yet.
in a such a situation we remain stacked in a point one cannot decipher kind of hilly-billy /banana language ;named banana by linguists cause as in african or sumerian languages we have repeated word parts as na-na in word ba-na-na or as –sa particle in a-sa-sa-ra-me/goddess or I-na-na /sumerian goddess.
the good part in one reading attempt of those tablets is the fact that out of knowing in wich speciphic language were written,one could understand something because there are icons wich had tremendous important meanings and we know allready those meanings.
I advance the hypothesis that the language is early or even proper INDO-EUROPEAN, no matter one not be 100% sure what exactly is written or ment.
those ancient-ones were sufficient wise,had in-depth knoledge as to express as much as possible with the minimal number of signs/characters! Before they wrote something, it seems they had in mind a throughly planning in advance! (this e.g.could be seen/true on Ezerovo ring where out of one uniterrupted row of letters, one could extract many meanings/variants, so even we have greek letters ,so now-time there is no one good scientific large-agree-attested reading!)
From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Greek_alphabet
===================
Note .There is a paper of a bulgarian scientist RUMEN KOLEV :ПЛОЧКИТЕ ОТ ТАРТАРИЯ И ЧАШАТА ОТ СУВОРОВО – ДВА „НАДПИСА” НА РАННАТА ДУНАВСКА КУЛТУРА И РАЗШИФРОВАНЕТО ИМ Румен Колев http://www.su-varna.org/izdanij/Magazin%201%20conf/Pages%20from%2046%20to%2053.pdf
wich go close to my conclusions of my sumerian aproach, but he choosed not to precise identify each sumerian sign and show sumerian appearance and name. But luckily enough he succeded to corect identify many of them (bull/cattle, god, temple, branch/corn, altar, idea of offering, >>=sign “RU”,etc.). Where he has the sun sign, I have the (sun)GOD sign wich is close. All this green underlined are common with mines !
Either don’t know why he not took the tablets separately and choosed to get meanings reading them only as beeing superposed.

Tags:History, Linguistics, PROTO-WRITING, Tartaria tablets
Posted in Ancient civilisations, History, PROTO-WRITING, Tartaria tablets, VINCA-TURDAS | Leave a Comment »

WHY SUCH A GREAT AMOUNT OF MISTERY AROUND TARTARIA TABLETS SUBJECT?

April 11, 2018

There are many questions wich allmost remained without responce: -It is writing, of wich kind? -It is proto-writing or writing; if writing,wich kind? -What is the period of time in wich were made? -Who was the supposed writer? -To wich culture partained tablets and he or her? -Are tablets real or fakes? -Why no scientist engaged in close research and give strait answers? ………….An other (more than ten) questions.

Read more: http://www.city-data.com/forum/history/2004509-first-civilisation-world-originated-balkans.html#ixzz5EFpnyKyJ The Danubian Neolithical cultures that makes the so-called Dabunian Civilisation (Vinca-Turdaș, Criș, Hamangia, Cucuteni, Gumelnița, Boian etc) were in fact the offsprings of migrations from Anatolia and Fertile Crescent toward Europe of early agricultors and the Vinca-Turdaș script, while the oldest system of writing in the world, didn’t developed in a large scale practice, there are no more than some hundreds discoveries of pottery shards and other pieces bearing (usually only one) such signs and the society wasn’t yet highly structured and hierarchized like the Sumerian one. And perhaps more important, the Vinca-Turdaș script was an isolated phenomenon, it disappeared with the end of this material culture (with some echos perhaps in the later Cucuteni culture).

From https://aleximreh.wordpress.com/2011/01/01/the-new-york-times-a-lost-european-culture-vlassa-tartaria-striga-istoria-sub-noi-oameni-buni/#comment-6635 : Sa nu ma atacati inainte de a trece o noapte. Nu stiu exact cum s-a intamplat, insa doar oasele au fost datate cu C14.Rezultatul este ca 99% din cercetatorii din lume stiu ca tablitele au fost datate.In consecinta,toti acestia iau de buna varsta de 5200 BC.Mai rau este ca toti incep sa-si modifice teoriile legate de neoliticul European si despre istoria Scrisului. Varsta aceasta poate sau nu fi adevarata. Insa toti ar trebui sa stie ca nu tablitele au fost datate ci numai oasele! In (forensic science) criminalistica vasta unui obiect nu se translateaza ca fiind aceeasi cu varsta unui alt obiect,chiar aflat in imediata vecinatate! Dupa cate am inteles in arheologie cand se poate cand nu, de cele mai multe ori da.Nu uitati ca in situl arheologic a fost haloimesul de pe lume.Nu s-a lucrat cf. tehnicilor actuale.asa daca ne gandim puteau pica din zeci de cm de mai sus.(Unii zic ca se lucra “la norma” si posibil Vlassa a luat tablitele din miile de obecte de-a lui Szofia Torma)Nimeni in lume si nicaieri nu a luat cineva vre-un pix in mana (cuneus) inainte de 3200-3500 BC.Nici macar ca sa faca tablite pictografice, darmite cu semne! Cu respect, ing. Eugen Rau Timisoara

I not agree the folowing!:The Hittites Quote:

Originally Posted by CARPATHIAN

regarding tablet’s age: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk%3AT%C4%83rt%C4%83ria_tablets So many questions

Radiocarbon dating – is it applicable to clay? Where are the tablets now? —Ghirla^-трёп- 04:13, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

No, it isn’t. Radiocarbon dating may only be applied to organic artifacts. The original Tartaria tablets were of dried, unbaked clay. The Romanian scientists baked them in an oven, to avoid their decay, but any subsequent dating by thermoluminescence (which is the usual method for the age determnation of ceramic artifacts) became impossible.–Mazarin07(talk) 23:38, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

The radio-carbon dating was performed not on the tablets themselves but on the bones with which they were found and with which they are presumed to have been buried. The article’s (currently) second external link is to a report dated 2004 of an investigation of the bones, tablets etc that dates the bones to a calibrated r-c span of 5370-5140BC. Incidentally, that report also corrects several of the original excavator’s incorrect assumptions which the article currently still contains. For example, the bones were not burnt, and are of an elderly female, not a male. I leave it to someone with more wiki-fu to study the report and update the article. 87.81.230.195 (talk) 13:37, 4 November 2008 (UTC) ——————————————————————————————————————————- To have the quickest possible responce to above questions, and have proper understanding, I will begin with the most important aspect,out of all others: – For a college (or above) level wiewer (no counting here scientists) something is shocking or striking : -There are three tablets wich normally distanced in time one of another 500-1000 years; could be showed and given to average cultural level people as kind of exemples for some of main steps/stages by wich evolved the writing:

1-tartaria-tablets-spoza (Periods of time are as raw refference) 1-Iconic stage,usually as before 3.500 B.C. 2-Proto-hierogliphic stage as between 3500(east)-2200(west) B.C. –Hierogliphic stage between 3.000(east)-2000(west) B.C. 3 –Syllabary, alphabetic stage between 2500(est)-1.500(west) B.C. One writer cannot know well all three systems of writing, but even so, cannot live in all above period/span of time. So there are only three explanations: 1.-the tablets are not related one with another 2.-the tablets are fakes 3–the tablets are made in later times (B.C.),by somebody who knew proper writing and also knew some-how ( kind of cultural transmission) some older signs and icons and some ideas/recollection of theyr meaning. He/her made another twoo as kind of school to stress the ancestor’s esteem and/or show how predecessors wrote. I am inclined to support the last hypothesis. ————————————————————————————- Some twelve years before, I saw for the first time the tablets pictures.After got knoledge of writing landscape and evolving, after 24 hrs. only I remained with the strong impression that on the round tablet we have signs as letters. I recognised many signs wich were used as letters in archaic greek alphabets.Despite this. I cannot identify all signs as letters in 100% proportion in any alphabet.Highest percentage in identifying work had carian folowed by old greek and iberian alphabets. Even for some years i had (and have) a reading upon archaic greek alphabets.Here I had the support of eteocretan alphabet and writing.later, one month before I could find all the signs of both written tablets (out of pictographic) using sumerian signs. Also I could use of cretan hierogliphic,Linear A/B signs for both tablets but encountered some difficulties (2 signs:bow+arrow and >>) at that round-one. I am not counting those hierogliphic-like,complex signs wich can be icons but as well ligatured letters. these very icons had the prime effect that one to keep scientists at distance because are also vave a mysterius appearance. In my understanding, Linear A/B begun in Aegean area and there also finished there.No gain large acceptance and not known or extended in Europe and other areas. After that, begun to be known better in Europe phoinikeia grammata “phoenician letters” with followers old hebrew and greek alphabet. But in the European people’s and cultural turmoil , different peoples addapted and gave their own and quite/slight different use of those signs. ————————————————————————————————- Very interesting, I saw one month before old runic Bulgarian alphabet and realised that I have many of signs there.But not gave proper attention.Taking account that there are some related issues between gothic,nordic and Balcan(Blugarian) areas, I realised that there were contacts between those cultures wich continued till christianism full emerged in Europe. See: From Scandinavia and the Balkans: Cultural Interactions with Byzantium …

https://books.google.ro/books?isbn=1443882283Oksana Minaeva, ‎Lena Holmquist “The solar sign in the inscription also possesses the magical meaning of the character. In greek papyrus texts,it is a planetary symbol and denotes various vocalisations from the greek alphabet:usually H or T. ….In papyrus texts,the moon is also presented

This once again highlights the relationship between the discussed monument and Gothic literary culture discovered in present-day Bulgaria.47 The solar sign in the … 8 of the treasure from Nagyszentmiklós, which is dedicated to the complex nature of the Christian God according to Gnostic Christian views of Middle Eastern …”

ould be kind of contact between Cycladic Keros/Syros population and early “Servos” from near-by Serres.

From site: http://lyudmilantonov.blogspot.ro/2011/04/bulgarian-alphabet.html

bulgar_runic_letters-1 ———————————————————————————————————————————- Even if I would begin such an attempt, another obstacle want to block my optimismus: The artefacts found near-by at the archeological site. Artefacts that wanting to speak that something is related to Aegean and specific to Cyclades area (don’t ask me why but my mind was focussed by the center of Cyclades, Keros-Syros islands): -one Spondyllus-shell bracelet -one figurine/statuettes made in Cyclades style -one alabaster footed-pot also in perfect cycladic style. Not to mention that in Aegean/Greek aereas were found hundred of tablets with proper writing, Linear A/B or archaic greek, in our area (Bulgaria-Serbia-Macedonia) a few written tablets , around or above five (e.g. Ezerovo ring-supposed thracian but no one clear read or deciphered) ———————————————————————————————-https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Greek_alphabet

Letters Heta/Eta-Rho :”HeRo,HeRa,HaR,Haro”=Hero,Lady,Charm,Death

Sign +++++ is +++ ? From http://www.carolandray.plus.com/Eteocretan/archaic_alpha.html Values of the vowels As for long and short vowels, only /e/ could have separate symbols for the two quantities, namely for “long e” and for “short e”. In fact in Greek spelling it was not even as simple as that. Ancient Greek had two “long e” sounds: low-mid [ɛː] and high-mid [eː]. In Greek denoted only the long low-mid sound; had to do duty for both the short sound and the long high-mid sound (until ει (ei) came to be used to denote /eː/ in the 5th century BCE). We see this in the Cretan Greek inscriptions from Dreros. Whether Eteocretan used similar spelling conventions or whether was always short, we have no way of knowing; all we can safely assume is that is always long. Values of consonants The consonants, for the most part, denoted the same phonemes as those denoted in the International Phonetic Alphabet by the Roman transcription shown in the table above; the only two exceptions are: 1.zai (zeta): the sound denoted by this symbol seems to have varied in different Greek dialects. Some instances of classical ζ derive from earlier /sd/, e.g. ἵζω (hizo) “I seat” ← *si-sd-ō (cf. Latin: sīdō). The majority of cases, however, derive from a earlier */dj/, */gj/ suggesting that sound denoted by ‘z’ in transcriptions of Mycenaean Linear B was /dj/ or an affricate such as [ʤ] or [ʣ]. It would seem, however, that in the archaic and classical periods, by a process of assimilation or metathesis, the sound varied in the dialects between [dd], [zd] and [zz] with the latter becoming the norm by the Hellenistic period and giving way eventually to the modern Greek [z].
In Cretan Greek [dd] was the norm and the spelling δδ is also found. 2.semk: is found on Praisos #1. As stated above, we can discount the value /ks/ given to this symbol by the Ionians. It would be a gross anachronism to find it used this way in a late 7th century or early 6th century inscription from Crete. There are only two credible possibilities: – As in some other local scripts, it is merely used as a variant of and, therefore, presumably denotes either /dd/ or /tt/. – It really is semk and is being used to represent a sibilant not known in contemporary Greek. The clear presence of Ϝσ (ws)on Praisos #3 may indicate that Eteocretan possessed a labialized sibilant [sʷ]].

Upper-Right quarter,signs: +++++ (i?)D(i?) D o o Letters: Se?Su? ( i)R(i) R o o

Reading: Surroo=Surrou Seirroo>Seirrou ;seiroo>seirrou

http://www.constellationsofwords.com/stars/Sirius.html Such stars astronomers call seirious on account of the tremulous motion of their light;…….so that it would seem that the word, in its forms seir, seiros, and seirios, — Suidas used all three for both sun and star, — originally was employed to indicate any bright and sparkling heavenly object, but in the course of time became a proper name for this brightest of all the stars.

From Hermes Scythicus Or the Radical Affinities of the Greek and Latin …https://books.google.ro/books?id=LFRmAAAAcAAJ … “Syr, or Seir,” he adds, “which the Persians “employed to denominate the sun, seems to be “ the same with Thor, only in a different dialect. “The ancient people of the north …

sci.tech-archive.net › Archive › sci.lang › 2004-07 Cached
13 Jul 2004 – be understood as the sun, shining on the male head or king and the ear of grain … The peculiar name Seyr for Zeus may have a correspondence in the Hittite … well worthy of Zeus, who was the supreme Greek god already in ..

dir.groups.yahoo.com/group/…/message/8177?o=1… – United StatesCached
You +1’d this publicly. Undo
25 Aug 2001 – Please respond to the idea that “Seir = Sun“…. that’s all I really … Sirius was the name of the dog that accompanied the Greek Hero > Orion!

6. eugenrau https://forum.softpedia.com/topic/829170-tablithele-de-la-tartaria/page__st__90 Posted 28 October 2012 – 00:21 seir=seiros=xeros=ca si xerox=rom/uscator; en./schorcherer=a fost aplicat in vechime atat pentru soare cat si pentru sirius

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%CF%83%CE%B5%CE%B9%CF%81%CE%AC seira:”cord, rope”

From Queen of heaven (antiquity) – Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen_of_heaven_(antiquity) Queen of Heaven was a title given to a number of ancient sky goddesses worshipped throughout the ancient Mediterranean and Near East during ancient times. Goddesses known to have been referred to by the title include Inanna, Anat, Isis, Astarte, Hera, and possibly Asherah (by the prophet Jeremiah). In Greco-Roman …

So,possible: Hera Sun(Zeus) Hero Sirius(Osiris) >> pre-Christ.? Hera Syrrou (lady from Syria/Syros?) …..there’are saying in Bible that christianism was brought by a Syrian woman HaR Seirrou chord of Charm (Har<>charis) chord/rope of <=>of Sun/Sirius/Hera

seir<!>seira ; thrac.syros:”pit”(osiris burial/rebirth?)

Surrou<>Surriou<>Surya/Svar/Suar

Note: “rr” is for “rho” and “oo” used before-time changed to “ou” and in some cases “omega” ; rroo=rhou (rom.rau=river):”flow,course” from v.”rheo” (could be also Hora rrou=”flow of” time)

Reconstruction:Proto-Indo-European/sóh₂wl̥ – Wiktionary

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Indo-European/sóh₂wl̥

Also OSIRIS:

From http://www.zoniana.gr/name_en.htm ZOULIANA – ZOUTOLAKKO – ZONIANA In this way Zas (Zeus) became both the founder and godfather of the village. When he died, he was buried there and from his tomb, his pit which is a synonym of his grave, the place was named “Zou’s Pit” (“Zeu’s Pit’’), in other words Zou’s (Zeus) grave. For instance a common phrase in Greek used when someone is at death’s door is that ‘He/she has one foot in the grave’ or when someone is already dead that ‘He/she has filled one’s pit’. Soon enough this name prevailed and until the second decade of the 19th century it was named “Zou’s Pit’ (Tou Zou to Lakko) and that is how Zouliana was named and still is the afore-mentioned neighbourhood. In this way it becomes clear that both names ZOULIANA and ZOYTOLAKKO derive from ZA which is one of the numerous names of ZEUS; among other names he was called Zeus, Dias, Zas, Zis, Zan, Dan, Tan, etc. Today the village is named Zoniana which name also derives from Zeus as we will find out. The village’s inhabitants, the so-called Zoulakkianoi or Zoulakkites, when they wanted to say: “Oh my God” (as we say today) or “Listen to me God”, they used to say: “Zone God” (Zone Thee) or “Listen to me Zone God” (Listen to me Zone Thee). Only Zoulakkianoi used this kind of appeal to address God. The inhabitants of Anogeia used to say: “Zane God” (Zane Thee

Tags:History, KOGAION, LABRYS, LINEAR A/B, Linguistics, Mycenaean, PROTO-CUNEIFORM, PROTO-WRITING, Tartaria tablets, VINCA-TURDAS CIVILISATION
Posted in Ancient civilisations, History, Linguistics, PROTO-CUNEIFORM, PROTO-WRITING, Tartaria tablets, VINCA-TURDAS | Leave a Comment »

VINCA-TURDAS CIVILISATION (THEIR) SIGNS, GODS AND SOUNDS (~ 5000 B.C.)

April 3, 2018

From ancientpages.com,

From alamy.com

https://el-libertario.webnode.es/_files/200005567-5afb95c527/Figurilla%20Vinca.JPG

“D” shape was for the idea of light ? and sounded “Di”?

From The Roots of the Sanskrit Language – jstor https://www.jstor.org/stable/2935779

by WD Whitneye ….. du, 1 di, burn. Not in RV. dus, spoil. In V., only caus. and derivatives. duh, milk, derive. 1 dr, pierce, split. drp, rave, talk big. drg, see. Lacks a pres.-system.

From https://i.pinimg.com/564x/e7/b3/27/e7b327dd67e6703ffaf326e49919ebb3.jpg Gr.βόωψ boōps “cow-eyes”; europos “big-eyes”

From https://www.videomaker.com/article/c13/14089-the-eye-light An eye light is a light that creates a small sparkle of light reflected from the eye’s surface, giving sparkle to the subject’s eyes. Without the eye light, the eyes would seem lifeless and unemotional.

From Psalms, Proverbs – Page 555 – Google Books Result https://books.google.ro/books?isbn=1414398883

Mark Futato, ‎George M. Schwab, ‎Philip W. Comfort -15:30 A cheerful look. Precisely, “the light of the eyes.” “Light” is equated with life in 4:18; 6:23; 13:9.

[PDF]Derivatives of Nostratic Root Morpheme *Ya – “To Shine, To Glow, To …

www.mcser.org/journal/index.php/mjss/article/download/9116/8803 *dī– “to shine, to glimmer”

From New Indology: Sumerian and Indo-European: a surprising connection

new-indology.blogspot.com/2015/05/sumerian-and-indo-european-surprising.html Sum. di ‘to shine’, PIE *diH/daiH/diw- ‘to shine, glitter; day, Sun; god’, Skr. dī– ‘to shine, be bright’, dina ‘day’, Armenian tiw ‘day’, Luwian Tiwat- ‘Sun god’, …

Reconstruction:Proto-Indo-European/deyws – Wiktionary https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Indo-European/deyws

*dyew- (“sky, heaven”); *dyew- > *diw– (zero-grade) > *deyw-

EVIDENCE OF MINOAN ASTRONOMY AND CALENDRICAL PRACTICES Marianna Ridderstad https://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/0910/0910.4801.pdf Another likely celestial symbol is the ‘eye’ with very prominent ‘eye-lashes’ (CHIC:387). The ‘eye’ is sometimes depicted as ‘rising’ over a (horizon?) line, which casts the doubt that it, too, is a solar symbol (CHIC #314). This may be related to the later belief of the sun as the eye of Zeus (Olcott 1914:288).

ANTONN BARTONEK T H E PHONIC EVALUATIO N OF THE S- AND Z- SIGNS IN MYCENAEA N https://digilib.phil.muni.cz/bitstream/handle/11222.digilib/110060/E_ArchaeologicaClassica_09-1964-1_8.pdf?sequence=1 Lurja, while treating this question, starts with refusing—first in his article Opyt ctenija pilosskikh nadpisej, Vest, drevnej istorii 1955, vol. 3, pp. 8-36, but mainly in his work Jazyk i kultura 50 sqq.—to ascribe the D- series of Mycenaean signs the explosive character. He believes that due to a pre-Greek substratum there had occurred in Mycenaean several phonic changes which most Greek dialects did never fully accomplish and of which only a very few odd traces were left in the Classical Era; thus assuming the shift of the proto-Greek d into some kind of (d)z he transcribes all Ventris’s D- signs as Z-signs, and goes on designating in this connection Ventris’s Z- series—not quite convincingly—as “C- series”, ascribing it with an all-round validity the phonetic value of a “soft (palatalized) variant” of the phone k.2…………………………………………1. It is probable that the very adoption of the Linear Script for rendering Greek witnessed already the tendency of reproducing with the Z- spelling all phonic formations governed by the so-called second assibilation, i. e. the voiced substitute for the original j-, -dj-, -gj-, on the one hand [this substitute being very likely at that time not far from the affricate dz going back to d’d’], and the voiceless substitute for the inter-morphemic -t(h)j- or for any -k(h)j- and -tw-, on the other hand [the latter substitute being again probably not far from the affricate tj going back to t’t’]; in either of these cases the Z- series of signs was employed just to express rather the purely palatal, i . e. the still non-affricate, shade of the two substitutes, a shade that was just in all probability disappearing…………………..The couple of affricate phonemes ts, dz, which formed counterparts as to voice. Their phonetic character underwent the following pre-Mycenaean and Mycenaean process of evolution: from various original formations through t’t’ [which absorbed also k’k’] and through d’d’ [absorbing also g’g’ and evidently even a part of the initial proto-Greek j’-], 5 4 then through tj [which had very likely directly absorbed the original tiv] and through dz, assuming finally the forms ts, dz………………………16.The most important exceptions: Central Cretan, Boeotian, Laconian, Elean and the Thessaliotic subdialect of Thessalian with their DD(!deltadelta), or later TT—all this being, of course, only a special continuation of the affricate dz.

Nominal composition in Mycenaean Greek – Wiley Online Library

onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/1467-968X.00100/pdf Mycenaean Greek is given and a classification attempted. Thereafter, issues in their phonology …. compound must not be considered `rien autre qu’une varieÂteÂ de la formation des noms, au meÃme titre que la ….. pu2-ru might be interpreted as `having white eye-brows’ (leyko3w and o1ýry9w), but the presence of ro still …

Me: !! Linear A sign *79 (‘eye’) Linear A, “ZU”

https://linearbknossosmycenae.files.wordpress.com/2017/06/linear-a-scribal-hands-wa-wi-za-ze-zo-zu.jpg

In other place thay say it is “DO” http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_a_qIRGD3pJ0/TEOGfd1eE3I/AAAAAAAAAeM/RF7U_QatvuY/s320/Minoan-seals-01.jpg

minoan-seals-01

From http://minoablog.blogspot.ro/2009/09/ This exclusion rule can be applied to the Linear A sign *79 (‘eye’) to show why it cannot represent the value ‘ZU’ (that was assigned to it by John Younger et al.). The case-ruling example we find on the tablet ZA4,row a.5 where the term QE-SI-*79-E can be read. The same name recurs on tablet ZA15. Now, if the reading of *79 were ‘ZU’, we would rather expect an ending ZU-WE (with a not well characterised linear A WE sign) and NOT ZU-E. On the other hand, the value suggested and used by many (e.g Glen Gordon) for this linear A sign: ‘DO’, fits perfectly, as DO-E is absolutely possible. But the case of LinA *79 has to approached with care. Apparently, there are two distinct LinearB signs (*79 and *14) corresponding to single cluster (*79) Linear A. I label it as a cluster, as it contains signs of very variable design: it is easily possible that there are two signs lumped into a single cluster: at least one of these is (with resonably high probability) is the Linear A counterpart of Linear B ‘DO’ sign (LinB *14).

From http://minoablog.blogspot.ro/2010/05/how-many-linear-signs-do-we-have.html BayndorJune 4, 2010 at 8:50 AM

I must admit, if my derivation of the Lin A *79 is peculiar, then the theory on the ‘TO’ sign must sound straightforwardly strange. It is an ‘I don’t have any better idea’ type of theory. Because Hieroglyphics features a sign: ‘bovine head in front’, that is not even uncommon, it must have a Linear A descendant. But if one checks it – based on shape, frequency and distribution – there are only two viable candidates: TO or DI. While I could not remove sign DI from the list of possible readings, it is only the TO sign that admits a good etymology. If we go with the reading DO (from *tau) for the ‘eye’, then a clearly parallel derivation would be the value TO for the ‘bull’ sign (from *thaura). I only thought of this second one, because it could prove a regular development of *aw diphtongs in Minoan into *o. Unfortunately, I could not meaningfully analyse the PO sign (as I don’t know what it depicts), or the RO sign. On the other hand, the KO sign might depict a coriander seed, but we cannot approach it from an etymological direction (as the origins of the word coriander [Lin B KO-RI-JA-DA-NA] are obscure). Otherwise, if we don’t accept the reading DO for Lin A*79, we could still try a similar value like DWA. That would not invalidate the etymology, and could give a solution for the pressing problem of having two Linear B signs when Lin A had just one.

From Various Versions of the Linear A Libation Formula, again, but now in …

http://www.academia.edu/…/Various_Versions_of_the_Linear_A_Libation_Formula_again_… Next, na-ta-n$-ti6 (with a solar variant of L 101 or AB 79 zu in its, against the background of its origin from the Cretan hieroglyphic “eye” [= solar symbol, cf. the “all … Anatolian go the same way, https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Indo-European/deyw%C3%B3s Anatolian: *diu- (“daylight god”)

Lycian: ziw
Lydian: Divi-
Luwian: tiwat (“a sun god”)
Palaic: tiyaz, tiuna But Luwians gos that eye sign to mean eye.Ti,eye,related to I.E.di/ti root for light:”ti6”=eye

3 articles on Celtiberian (Sasamón), Luwian hieroglyphic (Mira), and … http://www.academia.edu/…/3_articles_on_Celtiberian_Sasamón_Luwian_hieroglyphic_Mir… another early Cretan hieroglyphic inscription in combina- tion with the spider4 as an alternative means to render the titular expression usually occurring in form of 044-046 “trowel-adze” or 044-005 “trowel-eye” pi-tı¯ or pi-ti6 = Egyptian bi’ty “king” (Fig. 6). Furthermore, it ultimately …

From Pre-Mycenaean Greeks in Crete | iurii mosenkis – Academia.edu

http://www.academia.edu/24600947/Pre-Mycenaean_Greeks_in_Crete qu > z (Linear A zo ‘spear’ and zu ‘eye‘) similar to Phrygian qu > k (que > ke,Mycenaean que, Greek te).

From http://new-indology.blogspot.ro/2016/12/sumerian-and-indo-european-multifarious.html Nirjhar00727 December 2016 at 04:13

This is interesting . We already had the related discussion . In Sumerian there is UTU , in epsd it is given as utu-e3 “sunrise” , utu-šu2-uš; utu-šuš2 “sunset; the West”. There is also a ki’utu [LOCUS] ki-dutu “a cultic location; a ritual”. Not sure about the ritual . but if we read Bomhard there he gives this :
233. Proto-Nostratic root *t’ay– (~ *t’ǝy-) or *t’iy– (~ *t’ey-):
(vb.) *t’ay- or *t’iy- ‘to shine, to gleam, to be bright, to glitter, to glow; to
burn brightly’;
(n.) *t’ay-a or *t’iy-a ‘light, brightness, heat’
A. Dravidian: Tamil tī, tīy ‘to be burnt, charred, blighted’; Malayalam tī ‘fire’;
Kota ti·y- (ti·c-) ‘to be singed, roasted’; Toda ti·y- (ti·s-) ‘to be singed’, ti·y-
(ti·c-) ‘to singe, to roast’; Kannaḍa tī ‘to burn, to scorch, to singe, to
parch’; Telugu tīṇḍrincu, tī͂ḍirincu ‘to shine’, tīṇḍra ‘light, brightness,
heat’; Brahui tīn ‘scorching, scorching heat’, tīrūnk ‘spark’. Burrow—
Emeneau 1984:285, no. 3266.
B. Proto-Indo-European *t’ey-/*t’oy-/*t’i- ‘to shine, to be bright’: Sanskrit
dī́deti ‘to shine, to be bright; to shine forth, to excel, to please, to be
admired’, devá-ḥ ‘(n.) a deity, god; (adj.) heavenly, divine’, dyótate ‘to
shine, to be bright or brilliant’, dyáuḥ ‘heaven, sky, day’, divá-ḥ ‘heaven,
sky, day’, divyá-ḥ ‘divine, heavenly, celestial; supernatural, wonderful,
magical; charming, beautiful, agreeable’, dīpyáte ‘to blaze, to flare, to
shine, to be luminous or illustrious; to glow, to burn’, dīptá-ḥ ‘blazing,
flaming, hot, shining, bright, brilliant, splendid’, dína-ḥ ‘day’; Greek δῖος
‘heavenly; noble, excellent; divine, marvelous’, Ζεύς ‘Zeus, the sky-god’;
Armenian tiw ‘day’; Latin diēs ‘day’, deus ‘god’; Old Irish die ‘day’; Old
Icelandic teitr ‘glad, cheerful, merry’, tívorr (pl. tívar) ‘god’; Old English
Tīw name of a deity identified with Mars; Lithuanian dienà ‘day’, diẽvas
‘god’, dailùs ‘refined, elegant, graceful’; Old Church Slavic dьnь ‘day’;
Hittite (dat.-loc. sg.) šiwatti ‘day’, (gen. sg.) ši-(i-)ú-na-aš ‘god’; Luwian
(acc. pl.) ti-wa-ri-ya ‘sun’, (nom. sg.) Ti-wa-az name of the sun-god (=
Sumerian ᵈUTU, Akkadian ŠAMŠU, Hittite Ištanu-); Hieroglyphic Luwian
SOL-wa/i-za-sa (*Tiwats or *Tiwazas) name of the sun-god; Palaic (nom.
sg.) Ti-ya-az(-)…..,,,
C. Etruscan tin ‘day’, tiu, tiv-, tiur ‘moon, month’; Rhaetic tiu-ti ‘to the
moon’.
Sumerian dé ‘to smelt’, dé, dè, dè-dal ‘ashes’, dè, diû ‘glowing embers’, dèdal-
la ‘torch’, diû ‘to flare up, to light up; to be radiant, shining; to sparkle, to
shine’.
Buck 1949:1.51 sky, heavens; 1.52 sun; 1.53 moon; 1.84 ashes; 1.85 burn
(vb.); 14.41 day; 14.71 month; 15.56 shine; 16.71 good (adj.); 16.81 beautiful
(also pretty). Caldwell 1913:620. Bomhard—Kerns 1994:303—304, no. 119.
Different (unlikely) etymology in Dolgopolsky to appear, no. 2241, *tiʔû ‘to
shine, to be bright, to be seen’.
Buck 1949:1.51 sky, heavens; 1.52 sun; 1.53 moon; 1.84 ashes; 1.85 burn
(vb.); 14.41 day; 14.71 month; 15.56 shine; 16.71 good (adj.); 16.81 beautiful
(also pretty). Caldwell 1913:620. Bomhard—Kerns 1994:303—304, no. 119.
Different (unlikely) etymology in Dolgopolsky to appear, no. 2241, *tiʔû ‘to
shine, to be bright, to be seen’.
……………………………………………………………………. Perhaps we have an Indo-European related Sun divinity in Sumerian?. So, my theory(someh-how like the big-bang theory wich by common-sense reasoning advanced this hipothesys of an original emergency point)’ -so in a simylar way, but with twoo way strong evidences, in the same way I go back trough the time: -pre euphratean stage,UNKNOWN ! Proto-Nostratic root *t’ay- (~ *t’ǝy-) or *t’iy- (~ *t’ey-) Proto-Euphratean (n.) *t’ay-a or *t’iy-a ‘light, brightness, heat’
A. Dravidian: Tamil tī, tīy ‘to be burnt, charred, blighted’; Malayalam tī ‘fire’;
Euphratean Sum. di ‘to shine‘, PIE *diH/daiH/diw- ‘to shine, glitter; day, Sun; god’ -proto Indo-european stage *t’ay- or *t’iy- ‘to shine, to gleam, to be bright, to glitter, to glow; to burn brightly’ Anatolian IAnatolian: *diu- (“daylight god”) -proper IE stage,Sanskrit
dī́deti ‘to shine, to be bright; to shine forth, to excel, to please, to be
admired’ Averrage aproximate time-line(by me) Proto-Nostratic-Nostratic15.000-12.000 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nostratic_languagesThe hypothetical ancestral language of the Nostratic family is called Proto-Nostratic.[2] Proto-Nostratic would have been spoken between 15,000 and 12,000 BCE, in the Epipaleolithic period, close to the end of the last glacial period.[3] Proto-euphratean (unknown) :12.000-7000 BC ! OLD EUROPE! Mixed Euphratean-Proto-I.E. -Archaic Sumero-tamil stage:7000-3500 BCOLD EUROPE! Proto-Aegean/EBA Cycladic stage:3500-2500 B.C. Full IE:2500-1500 B.C. (2500 Minoan was not full-IE) Anatolian(Indo-Hittite) 2500-1000 B.C. Minoan/mixed/unknown/Linear A:2500-2000 Eteocretan,Hieroglyphic Cretan Linear B 2.200-1000B.C.(start of greek language) Archaic Greek:1500-500 BC; Homeric: 500BC >1 Koine:1> 500A.D. ******************* Danubian/Old European Gods **************************** Despite the fact that T’ay /t’iy/t’ey/t’ei/T’iy/T’iy-a/Ti, And could have such a “T/Ti” deity,there are many evidences of a linguistic change, Ti > Di so as had egyptians Ti related deities,we could hav an IE “Di” starting deity.In such long-distance ancient times they not have an structured-organised panteon of gods by logical order.They had (many?) deities folowing not a structured order,but folowing exact their stringent practical needs (warm,feeding..) So ,out of other many possible Gods and Goddesses and their denominations,(e.g.Bird-Mother-Goddess)this-one could be one of their gods related to living(easy catch fish feeding): BelBrdo/Serbia=(brdo/twrdo”whirlpool)” 6500BC old dwelling Danube site :http://portalenportalen.blogspot.com/2015/02/vinca-culture.html DAG :”(make a living=fertility)god”?With some-how celestian origin, DAG-AN: (shine-sky):“Sky-God”(old hebrew DAGON)? Sum. dag, dadag ‘(to be) bright; to clean; (ritually) pure This “creature”is the same with : http://www.pagannews.com/cgi-bin/wpgods3.pl?Dagon From Nostratic Etymological Index Cover – bulgari-istoria http://www.bulgari-istoria-2010.com/Rechnici/NostraticEtymologicalIndex.pdf Proto–Nostratic (n.) *da- ‘mother, sister‘; (reduplicated) (n.) *da-da- ‘mother, sister’ (nursery words). 144. Proto–Nostratic root *dab- (~ *dǝb-):. (vb.) *dab- ‘to make fast, to join together, to fit together, to fasten (together)‘;. (n.) *dab-a ‘joining, fitting, fastening’. 145. Proto–Nostratic root *dag– (~ *dǝg-):. (vb.) dag– ‘to put, to place, … From Dagon – Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dagon A long-standing association with the word for “fish” dâg, perhaps going back to the Iron Age, has led to an interpretation as a “fish-god”, and the association of “merman” motifs in Assyrian art (such as the “Dagon” relief found by Austen Henry Layard in the 1840s). The god’s name was, however, more likely derived from a … From Diakonoff – External Connections of the Sumerian Language | Plural …https://www.scribd.com/…/Diakonoff-External-Connections-of-the-Sumerian-Langua… … question (probably the Proto–Indo–Europeans); the new tribes ousted the backward ….. 15. dag ‘clean,washed‘, dadag ‘clean’ 16. ene, ane … From Sumerian Lexicon https://azargoshnasp.net/recent_history/pan_turkist…/sumeriandictionaryreliable.pdf by JA Halloran – ‎ Sumerian…… dág: brilliant; pure; clean (‘to go out’ + aga(3), ‘diadem, circlet, crown’). dig: v., to … From New Indology: Sumerian and Indo-European: a surprising connection new-indology.blogspot.com/2015/05/sumerian-and-indo-european-surprising.html Sum. dag, dadag ‘(to be) bright; to clean; (ritually) pure‘, PIE *dhagwh- ‘to burn, shine‘, Old Saxon, Middle Dutch, Dutch dag, Gothic dags ‘day’, Tocharian A tsāk- ‘to shine, give light’, AB cok ‘lamp’, Old Irish daig ‘fire’, Old Prussian dagis ‘summer’, Lith. degti ‘to burn’, Skt. dahati ‘to burn’,dagdha ‘burnt’, …

Tags:History, KOGAION, Linguistics, Tartaria tablets, VINCA-TURDAS CIVILISATION
Posted in Ancient civilisations, History, KOGAION, Linguistics, PROTO-WRITING, Tartaria tablets | Leave a Comment »

TARTARIA ROUND TABLET,Upper half,astonishing findings.

April 2, 2018

TARTARIA ROUND TABLET, UPPER HALF,ASTONISHING FINDINGS

Careful/ Attention ! This post is not a decipherment or reading of any actual written content of Tartaria tablets. Given that the signs do not belong to a single writing system but to several, the page has a purely didactic character. It has the role of trying and testing different writings, in the idea that the tablets would have used one of them. The signs on the tablets belong to several writing systems over a long period of time and which have been used in different geographical areas. In none of the trials did the signs fall into a single type of writing, there always remained signs that came from other writings (or as coming from the unknown). Most of the signs come from the Sumerian proto-cuneiform -shaped ones. The signs in the upper half of the round tablet seem to come from archaic Greek writing. This “collection” of signs seems to be the fruit of one’s rich imagination. As A. Falkenstein and A. A. Vaiman found, (this is also my firm opinion) the author was not a scribe, he had only vague notions about writing in general, and it is not known what he intended or he was after. There are many elements of inconsistency as well as others that take the tablets out of the usual patterns and norms of honest logic, writing and intentions. =====

TartRound

From https://cogniarchae.files.wordpress.com/2015/10/tablet.jpg?w=300&resize=559%2C372

Archeologists (Gh.Lazarovici,Marco Merlini and others) after detailed analysis of on-field conditions and circumstances along with the artefacts found close-by advanced as possible story or scenario that is one of the folowings :
– an death/burial or hero/ancestor worshipping ritual
– an foundation ritual
– an usual/common religious,propitiating ritual for some God(s) performed by the Lady Tartaria=priestess when alive.
See at the finish of my paper excerpts from different related studies.
See the left quarter,
http://www.omda.bg/uploaded_files/images/ezernia-grad/5.jpg

Firs sign is (see folowing image,…Nu,6,3-rd)?
all-unknown-cretan-seal-symbols

Also,see https://linearbknossosmycenae.files.wordpress.com/2017/08/cretan-tablet-malia-palace-map-hi-021.jpg

in linear A the sign “NU” http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_a_qIRGD3pJ0/S_qxpdDgI3I/AAAAAAAAAbA/QcXKTDMye5A/s160 Image from https://linearbknossosmycenae.com/tag/wheat/

0/Linear-A-base.jpg

If linear A “NU” is like folowing,
https://linearbknossosmycenae.files.wordpress.com/2017/06/linear-a-n-series-of-syllabograms.jpg

PDF https://azargoshnasp.net › sumd › sumeri…
by JA Halloran
B. Alster, Proverbs of Ancient Sumer: The World’s Earliest Proverb Collections, 2 vols; …… nud, nú: to lie down; to lie together with ( with -da-); to lay down (with -ni-); to sleep; to …

Linear A,”PA2=PAi”?
https://linearbknossosmycenae.files.wordpress.com/2017/10/minoan-linear-a-keyboard-assignments620.jpg?w=640

Folowing sign has the shape of D or P.But that letter “D,De.Di”was not invented yet!
So we take the sign as MOON/MONTH, with the reading MINI,MINU gr.MENE/MENO
So NU-MENO.Here it is appearing the word “NUMENO/NUMENO”
(as to note,scientists as Richard Vallance Janke if it is finding an latin-like word he is rejecting,in favor of another greek-one)

I renounce to take the sign as linear A “NU”.Just in case,as a kind of testing:

So: NU + Moon sign (MENE/MENO?)
What NUMENO stand for? So NU-MENO.This is the little known lat.NUMEN
(as to note,scientists as Richard Vallance Janke if it is finding an latin-like word he is rejecting,in favor ov another greek-one)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numen#Definition_as_a_pre-animistic_phase_of_religion
Numen, pl. numina, is a Latin term for “divinity”, or a “divine presence”, “divine will.” The Latin authors defined it as follows.[1] Cicero writes of a “divine mind” (divina mens), a god “wh
Etymology
Etymologically, the word means “a nod of the head”, here referring to a deity as it were “nodding”, or making its will or its presence known). According to H. J. Rose:
The literal meaning is simply “a nod”, or more accurately, for it is a passive formation, “that which is produced by nodding”, just as flamen is “that which is produced by blowing”, i.e., a gust of wind. It came to mean “the product or expression of power” — not, be it noted, power itself.[8]
Thus, numen (divinity) is not personified (although it can be a personal attribute) and should be distinguished from deus (god).[9]
Definition as a pre-animistic phase of religion
The expression Numen inest appears in Ovid’s Fasti (III, 296) and has been translated as ‘There is a spirit here’.[12] Its interpretation, and in particular the exact sense of numen has been discussed extensively in the literature.[13]
The supposition that a numinous presence in the natural world supposed in the earliest layers of Italic religion, as it were an “animistic” element left over in historical Roman religion and especially in the etymology of Latin theonyms,….

The Empire Strikes Out: Kurd Lasswitz, Hans Dominik, and the …
https://books.google.ro/books?isbn=0879722584 William B. Fischer “Nume” may be intended to suggest, in addition, both Latin “numen,” meaning “god” or “divinity,” and Greek “noumenon,” a true ideal or entity perceived by the rational faculty, … Thus, for example, they find it necessary to give the Earthmen terrestrial equivalents of their own time units: “When will [the departure] take place?

But we don’t know for shure if the sign H with 3 bars is from cretan hieroglyphic or Linear A/B.
In linear B it stands for PA3. From https://www.tumblr.com/search/syllabaries

I new that PA,

*pa- | Origin and meaning of root *pa- by Online Etymology Dictionary
https://www.etymonline.com/word/*pa-

.*pā-, Proto-Indo-European root meaning “to protect, feed.” It forms all or part of: antipasto; appanage; bannock; bezoar; companion; company; feed; fodder; food; forage; foray; foster; fur; furrier; impanate; pabulum; panatela; panic (n.2) “type of grass;” pannier; panocha; pantry; pastern; pastor; pasture; pester; repast; satrap.

http://starling.rinet.ru/cgi-bin/response.cgi?root=config&morpho=0&basename=%5Cdata%5Cie%5Cpiet&first=2061roto-IE:
*pāy- Nostratic etymology: Nostratic etymology

Meaning: to guard, to graze, to feed
Hittite: pahs- (pahhas-) (II) ‘schützen, verwahren’ (Friedrich 153)
Old Indian: pati, ptc. pāta-, pāna-, aor. apāsīt `to watch, keep, preserve’; pā́- (in comp.) m. `keeping, guarding’, pāyú- m. `guard, protector’, pāla- m. `guard, protector, keeper’, pāvan- (in comp.) `protecting’, pātár- n. `defending, defender’; nŕ̥-pīti- f. `protection of men’, nr̥-pa- m. `protector of men, king’
Old Greek: ep. pōü, -eos n. `Schafherde’, poimen, -énos m. `Hirt, Schafhirt’, pói̯mnǟ f. `(Schaf)herde’; pō̂ma n. `Deckel (an Kasten, Krügen, Köchern etc.)’

PA, as single,could mean (PA,proto indoeuropean root for protection):
gods | Minoan Linear A, Linear B, Knossos & Mycenae
https://linearbknossosmycenae.com/tag/gods/
Then on the second line he uses the ideogram for “she goat”, again followed by the number 1 and by the syllabogram PA right truncated. If all this seems a mystery to you, it is not to me. The syllabogramPA right truncated on the second line almost certainly means pasi teoi = to all the gods, which in turn implies sapaketeriya …

If so,:PA+ MENO. My first association is gr. POIMEN :”shepperd”

Foreword: The return of ethnographic theory – The University of …
https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/pdfplus/10.14318/hau1.1.001
shepherd of people” (in Greek, poimen laon), the term laos expressing a personal bond between king as guide …. the plurality of life and its beings appears as a singularity and b) a figure of vital externality, through ….. eventfulness embedded within images [1990b]; the partial and non-linear nature of knowledge [1991a]); .
..
But is PAMEN with PA not with O,besides it is appearing I.No problem with I cause PA could be read Pa.Pai etc.

[PDF]F I L I P P O F E R L A U T O
http://www.dtesis.univr.it/documenti/OccorrenzaIns/…/matdid501333.pdf
; questi segni avevano valore …. (a, e, i, o, u) per sillabe aperte (consonante + vocale) quali聽pa, pe, pi, po, pu, … indica la quantit, n tanto meno il grado di apertura che la quantit.

I found written form PA-MEN (=Poimen?)=”Shepperd?”

http://www.anistor.gr/english/enback/v053.htm
KN He (06) 03 is a medallion with two faces inscribed and two numbers. One of the faces reads:
Pa–me–ni po-lo 100
The foals (polo(i)) for this year (pameni has the dative ending, but cf. Greek pammenos)
Please also note that the pictogram for pa looks like a house (cf. Minoan pa-na-so,
place of the house/temple)

https://www.scribd.com/doc/56265843/Linear-B-Lexicon
Po-me=poimen po-me-no=poimenos, po-me-ne=poimenei

!! This shepperd is the very silhuette on pictographic tablet found together with the other twoo tablets.(Also there you have the grain sign “TE”,and kind of ibex/wild goat)

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%CE%BC%CE%AD%CE%BD%CE%BF%CF%82
Gr.NEMOs
1.mind
2.desire, ardor, wish, purpose
3.anger
4.courage, spirit, vigor
5.power, strength, force
6.violence
The reading of the left quarter is PA-MENO (cf.pameni,pammenos =pan/pam menos=all months)
THIS YEAR http://www.omda.bg/uploaded_files/images/ezernia-grad/7.jpg

“PROTECT, GRAZE, TO FEED, POIMEN/Shepperd” are consistent with the pictographic tablet found near-by (out of total of three),On the tablet there are depiced: an vegetal motif, kind of human silhuette? and a goat.

—————————————————————————————————————————————–

RIGHT SIDE (RIGHT QUADRANT)

Upper sign, +++++,it is grain,wheat,sitos,”TE” From https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Linear_B_Syllable_B004_TE.svg

As has more than three strokes (5 or ^) Could be Te-TE?

See sign “TE” in Linear A:
http://www.kairatos.com.gr/linear1.htm

Definition of “inscription” By convention, an “inscription” is defined as two or more signs in conjunction, a word. A single sign may be an abbreviation of a word (e.g., Linear B o for o-pe-ro, “owed”, “deficit”), or, commonly in Linear A, a transaction sign, like sign *42 A (“to” NAME?) and TE (“from”? NAME).

http://www.anistor.gr/english/enback/v053.htm In the Minoan Linear A inscription, there are many aids to help the modern reader. First of all, there are loan words from different languages. For instance, the abbreviation “te,” commonly used on the tablets, has convincingly been shown by Jan Best and Fred Woudhuizen to be an abbreviation of an expression “telu” which appears to be related to an Assyrian word meaning delivery (Best and Woudhuizen 1988, 24).
First signs,D D don’t know what meaning to atribute them,as long as D-shape sign was not yet invented,
So the single solution is to think as the MOON-sign,wit the reading “MENO”.
But here I think the meaning it is not intended to moon or month but to its basic meaning :”constant,continous”or others direct derived.
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%CE%BC%CE%AD%CE%BD%CF%89
μένω • (ménō)
1.I stay, wait
1.(in battle) I stand fast
2.I stay where I am
3.I lodge
4.I tarry; I loiter, am idle
5.(of things) I am lasting; I remain, stand
6.(of condition) I remain
7.I abide by

8.(impersonal, with infinitive) it remains quotations ▼
2.(of persons) I await, expect quotations ▼
1.I wait for (accusative) to (infinitive)
Romanian:
A MANa :”to drive”raMAN:”remain”
A MANa :”stay,remain,LODGE”

So:”I(remain,abide)”; MENO,MENO-an,MINOAN”
my rendering “remain,abide
Now,interesting:some 7 years before I noticed that the upper sign gas a line to the second D.

You can see clear on picture.Whoever made the above drawing not made an accurate-one.See again what I am telling about:

At that time, I wondered if (line) intended or not.I told this to Mr.Marco Merlini.Not responded or much interested.
Now see: the upper sign is rendered in Linear A/B as :”TE”.Beeing binded/ligatured wit “D”-moon-shape we have:
TE+MENO,wich is TEMENO gr.TEMENOS:”shrine,temple”

priestess | Minoan Linear A, Linear B, Knossos & Mycenae
https://linearbknossosmycenae.com/tag/priestess/
we find that the last supersyllabogram, TE, may readily and realistically rendered as temeno, which in Mycenaean Greek means “a temple”.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/temenos
A piece of land marked off from common uses and assigned as an official domain, especially to a king, chief, or god.
· A sacred circle where one can be oneself without fear. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Very, very interesting,: From https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?5901-Scientists-Prepare-to-Solve-Mystery-of-Sumerian-DNA/page7&__cf_chl_jschl_tk__=5562474ce4ba5e4694e7f546d6b7a295a665d29f-1581248335-0-AVEIVZcdES5ubTBUXWavvNIBRp8tlAJJEA_0HPi1nv4Mg3zahbcVOYkmncU4HXVkFXqdNOBlnpf8lziaAO3D6k9fWnq58ZSzLmNERs4BO3zhrlJR5oWb3uVRWRTW7BkHaDXcSIyJtbKdpwRRGDD-lHbgYbuodUHkMppYkCWgw6c0L5aA5S5uVQ3afo7efILHkY05uqYtsTUWW81CIhcyAcdaqOu4f-qYm_ZIscTTx-TmeoiDcoA98RrVlS52IktALTjUE5M7dUdQ3PUQuU20HuVEo6hGQnrDiBzQ2Ca5vnVNNYT5x8BQUDkKdMDI7CK3pttBWnhh5Di6Y-mpnLVQia_kMAnYGHql0MiTh1BqM5OOVJwDo0e2mZ_0RiA_aRHoGg

<< Sum. temen, Akk. temmenu, temennu ‘foundation (deposit)’, PIE *dhā-man/dha-mn̥- ‘what is placed or set’, Skt. dhāman- ‘dwelling-place, abode; law’, Greek thema ‘what is placed or laid down: deposit; position of land; grammatical stem’; themethla, theme(i)lia ‘foundations‘, themelios ‘foundation-stone’. In Greek we have also temenos ‘a piece of land cut off and assigned as an official domain’, especially to kings and to temples of gods. According to the analysis of Dunham (1986), Sum. temen often refers to a marked off area, and also the boundaries and the corners of the area, and Whittaker remarks that temen is the reading of the ‘perimeter sign’, so something very similar to the temenos. Manessy-Guitton already in 1966 proposed that temenos comes from temen, but temenos seems to have a very clear etymology from the Greek tem-no ‘to cut‘, which is made stronger by the comparison with Latin templum, originally indicating a delimited space in the sky for auspices, but also a space consecrated to the gods (the temple) and a transverse beam. So, if temen and temenos have a relation, we should admit that temen comes from the same root tem- as temenos and templum. The temen sign is done with two crosses and a rope, like this:
x—x. Rather than a perimeter, it is one side of it, and, as Dunham remarks, it is like a string between two pegs, and he also suggests that temen indicates the foundation peg (or set of pegs). If he is right, the root of temen is more likely ‘to put, place’ (the pegs) than ‘to cut’ (the area of the foundations).>>

Relating to the King MINOS,
MYNOS (MUNOS,MINOS,MENOS), his name is related to:
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%CE%BC%CE%AD%CE%BD%CE%BF%CF%82
μένος • (ménos) n (genitive μένεος or μένους); third declension
1.mind
2.desire, ardor, wish, purpose
3.anger
4.courage, spirit, vigor
5.power, strength, force
6.violence
As in romanian language we have:
1.MINte/MINte,MENtal (mind/to lie,of the mind)
4.MANdrie
5.6.MANios (gr.MANiakos)

Citadel to City-State: The Transformation of Greece, 1200-700 B.C.E.
https://books.google.ro › books
Carol G. Thomas, Craig Conant ·
The term appears in Linear B as te- me-no and refers to lands given to, or owned by, a god, the wanax (as in wa-na-ke-te-ro te-me- no), or the lawagetas (as in ra-wa-ke-si-jo …

The signs: “OO” or “OC”?

Could be numbers:

Thus: o o – | | o would be 312 and o o in Linear B,would be 200.

Table 5 Table of 27 supersyllabograms in Minoan Linear A. KEY to supersyllabograms in Linear A: fi = figs. gr = grains (wheat). ma = man, person. oo = olivesVvocabulary | Minoan Linear A, Linear B, Knossos & Mycenae
https://linearbknossosmycenae.com

What with the latest signs OO,OC ?
If OC,first is the linear A “KE”

From http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_a_qIRGD3pJ0/TLm7HKEeR6I/AAAAAAAAAhM/UMyNjulXVNg/s1600/KA-QE-sign-evolution.jpg

Second it is in the same linear A,the moon :”MENO”
KE-MENO !?
What does it mean?

id you mean: kemono linguistics
Germanic Dialects: Linguistic and Philological Investigations
https://books.google.ro › books
Bela Brogyanyi, Thomas Krömmelbein ·IE *kem—eno— > Gmc. *hem—ina— > Engl. heaven. po3.uni-koeln.de › sites › hvs › pdfs by Y DUHOUX · Cited by 34 · Related articles It does not help that except for Linear B none of the languages written in. Greece in …. which sees in qe-ja-me-no a title / kweyamenos/ ‘révérend, honoré’ (cf. tíw ‘ honour, revere …

KE-ME-NO is the greek KEiMENO?….radher opion is for qe-ja-me-no.
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%CE%BA%CE%B5%E1%BF%96%CE%BC%CE%B1%CE%B9
κεῖμαι • (keîmai)
1.to lie, lie outstretched
1.to lie asleep, repose, lie idle, lie still
2.to lie sick or wounded, lie in misery
3.to lie dead
4.to lie neglected, uncared for, unburied
5.(of wrestlers) to have a fall
2.(of places) to lie, be situated
1.(of things) to lie in a place
3.to be laid up, be in store (of goods, property, etc.)
4.to be set up, proposed
1.(of laws) to be laid down
2.(of arguments) to be laid down
3.(of names) to be given
5.(figuratively)
1.to be in the power of
2.to be in such a manner
3.to be
4.to settle down, deposit a sediment
5.(grammar, of words and phrases) to be found, to occur

On the Weaving of Texts – Glossologics
https://alexpolistigers.wordpress.com › …
Nov 26, 2013 · It is κείμενο ( keimeno), from κείμαι (keimai), meaning “lie, be placed”, and is … Similarly logical, leaving the Indo-European family and travelling to .
I think kemeno/keimeno are related to kome and comates,residents of come(village),but here are residents of a much large area Minoan/Mycenaean area.

Corpus of Mycenaean Inscriptions from Knossos:
https://books.google.ro/books?isbn=0521320224
John Chadwick, ‎L. Godart, ‎J. T. Killen [ .5 ] ko-me-no vir 1[ ] no-do-ro-we D A [ • • • .2 Traces at left, perhaps ]re ; perhaps …

Germanic Dialects: Linguistic and Philological Investigations
https://books.google.ro/books?isbn=9027235260
Bela Brogyanyi, ‎Thomas Krömmelbein – 1986 – ‎Language Arts & Disciplines
1887), and many of the other early constructors of the Indo-European edifice. Historical linguistics has persevered within the petrifying framework of derivational continua: *X > *Y > Z; IE *kem—eno— > Gmc. *hem—ina— > Engl. heaven.

Whole upper half:
+++++ = TE=”From”
THIS (Thing empowered,with) lie,placed (text) YEAR God’s power and Will REMAIN,ABIDE TEMPLE 200?HEAVEN(of) the Sky)?sun&MOON?’
? THIS YEAR REMAIN PLACED TEMPLE ?
From the archeological site items and data some scientists (Gh.Lazarovici,Marco Merlini) got clues that the deceased female was a high-revered in comunity and has a high social position and was a priestess,wich performed religious rituals.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Ionians
The “Proto-Ionians” first appear in the work of Ernst Curtius (1887), who believed that the Attic-Ionic dialect group was due to an “Ionicization” of Attica by immigration from Ionia in historical times. Curtius hypothesized that there had been a “Proto-Ionian” migration from the Balkans to western Anatolia in the same period that brought the Arcadic dialect (the successor of the Mycenean Greek stage yet undiscovered in the time of Curtius) to mainland Greece.[2] Curtius’ hypothesis was endorsed by George Hempl in 1920.[3] Hempl preferred to call these hypothetical, early Anatolian Greeks “Javonians”. Hempl attempted to defend a reading of Hittite cuneiform as Greek, in spite of the establishment of the Hittite language as a separate branch of Indo-European by Hrozný in 1917…………………………..The tripartite theory was revived by amateur linguist Jean Faucounau. In his view, the first Greek settlers in their historical territory were the (Pelasgic) “proto-Ionians”, who were separated around 3000 BC from both the proto-Dorians and the proto-Mycenaeans. Faucounau traces this three-wave model to similar views put forward by Paul Kretschmer in the 1890s and the 1900s (i.e., before the decipherment of Linear B), with a modification: the (proto-Ionic) First wave came by sea, the “Proto-Ionians” settling first in the Cycladic Islands, then in Euboea and Attica. The last two waves are the generally accepted arrival of the Mycenaean Greeks (the linguistic predecessors of the Arcadocypriot speakers) in around 1700 BC and the Dorian invasion around 1100 BC. …………….Faucounau’s addition to this is the argument that Crete is also too far south, that the names of the constellations are (Ionic) Greek, not Minoan, and therefore that the constellation makers must be the proto-Ionians in the Cyclades.[13] The south coast of Crete follows 35°N latitude; Syros, which he identifies as a center of proto-Ionian civilization,[14] is at 37°20′.[15] On this basis, he identifies the proto-Ionians with the archaeological Early Cycladic II culture: after all, they made round “frying pans,” and one of them with an incised spiral, and the Phaistos Disc is round with an incised spiral.[16]
His third argument depends on Herodotus’s somewhat obscure use of the word Pelasgian for various peoples, Greek-speaking and otherwise, around the Aegean basin. Faucounau claims that the word, which he derives idiosyncratically from πελαγος, “sea”,[17] means the descendants of the proto-Ionians. Some of them lost their language because they settled among foreigners; others, such as the Athenians, preserved their language – Attic, apparently, arises from a mixture of proto-Ionian and other dialects. He does not explain why Homer speaks of Dodona, inland in north-western Greece, as Pelasgian (Il, 16,233); nor why no place in historic Ionia is called Pelasgian.

http://paleoglot.blogspot.ro/2008/02/proto-aegean-what-i-mean-and-what-i.html
https://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Fp1TvPT3pZg/R7ynu0-GCiI/AAAAAAAAARY/2n7EEa8KSgE/w1200-h630-p-k-no-nu/PG_ProtoAegeanMap.jpg

So now let’s draw a circle around Greece, Western Anatolia, Cyprus, Crete and the Aegean islands. We then start to see the linguistic pattern that I’m getting at. An entire language family forgotten in the mists of time and modern-day mystery mongering. What’s somewhat irritating to me and which should be irritating to you, the reader, is how we have an ‘Etruscan mystery’, a ‘Minoan mystery’, an ‘Eteo-Cretan mystery’ and an ‘Eteo-Cypriot mystery’ going on at the same time. If you research any one of these subjects, you’ll get next to nothing on their languages or their translations. It’s all “Who knows?” and “What if?”. Why is this region and this time period such a freakin’ mystery? Is it really because we lack information to piece it all together or is it because our power of concentration lacks get-up-and-go to solve problems without the use of a computer crutch?
Anyways, this is what I mean by “Proto-Aegean”. It sits there before you readers, waiting to be developed further.
https://e-edu.nbu.bg/pluginfile.php/727675/mod_resource/content/1/Chadwick%20%20Baumbach%201963%20-%20The%20Mycenaean%20Greek%20Vocabulary.pdf
Hpa e-ra PY Tn 316; female recipient of offerings, coupled with Zeus: dat. Hêrâi [Docs. 126, 289; Heubeck, IP 66. 223]. Note 1 : e-ra at KN is a place-name. Note 2: This spelling eliminates the proposed etymology from *”Hqfa; see Frisk, GEW. Discussion of the name : Schroder, Gymnasium 63. 67 ; van Windekens, Glotta 36. 309 ff.

The cult of the dead in central Greece during the Mycenaean period
Gallou, Chrysanthi (2003) The cult of the dead in central Greece during the Mycenaean period. PhD thesis, University of Nottingham. http://eprints.nottingham.ac.uk/11184/ http://eprints.nottingham.ac.uk/11184/1/289316.pdf
The identification of any given symbol or symbolic system should be classified in terms of human action and behaviour at a religious and/or funerary level, with reference to the context of occurrence.Given the problem of divergence in interpretation, a more reliable reading should be dictated by a morphological, syntactic and contextual analysis, and the awareness of the extent to which the interpreter’s preconceptions on the matter are introduced to the examination of past symbolism. Contextual, morphological and syntactic analysis of the symbolic element or system followed by cross-examination, cross-referencing and criticism of the hermeneutic model will underwrite to a significant degree the reliability of the interpretation.
Me: so signs are close-related to one specific concrete situation composed,it is a sum of unique concrete elements
xupoç ku-ro2 KNU0478, PY Ea 814 (dat.); gen. ku-ro2-jo KN B 822; MN: prob. Kurios [Docs. 420]. TartRound

Tags:History, LINEAR A/B, Linguistics, Tartaria tablets
Posted in History, LINEAR A/B, Linguistics, Mycenaean, PROTO-WRITING, Tartaria tablets | Leave a Comment »

TARTARIA ROUND TABLET. Sumerian approach.1

April 2, 2018

Careful/ Attention ! This post is not a decipherment or reading of any actual written content of Tartaria tablets. Given that the signs do not belong to a single writing system but to several, the page has a purely didactic character. It has the role of trying and testing different writings, in the idea that the tablets would have used one of them. The signs on the tablets belong to several writing systems over a long period of time and which have been used in different geographical areas. In none of the trials did the signs fall into a single type of writing, there always remained signs that came from other writings (or as coming from the unknown). Most of the signs come from the Sumerian proto-cuneiform -shaped ones. The signs in the upper half of the round tablet seem to come from archaic Greek writing. This “collection” of signs seems to be the fruit of one’s rich imagination. As A. Falkenstein and A. A. Vaiman found, (this is also my firm opinion) the author was not a scribe, he had only vague notions about writing in general, and it is not known what he intended or he was after. There are many elements of inconsistency as well as others that take the tablets out of the usual patterns and norms of honest logic, writing and intentions. ==== TART.S ROUND SUM TART.S ROUND SUM ==== TARTARIA ROUND TABLET Not 100% sumerian signs !

TARTARIA ROUND TABLET: Picture, fromhttps://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSD5kOPzyRbCx16SOHNYI_JFdR5kACAdzi4Fc_rqu4_ayIAqf0u

TartRound
Tablet replica made by myself:

36320642_1671848542936382_8881202476397625344_n

Some days before I revised/overhauled the “sumerian aproach” of the tablet signs.(To be noticed, before I made three ways/kind of aproaches for every sign in the tablet: 1.as icons & logograms 2. as logograms,and 3.as syllabograms&letters)

My surprise was that all the signs were found in proto-cuneiform sumerian signs list.
From technical point of view, my opinion is that upon the signs seems not to be scrachted or drawn by an native sumerian. One know they used round sticks/styluses, and at least made numbers even in prot-writing phase by imprinting.Only the rest of the signs were made by scratching. Here we have not much the case, all the signs are scratched.

Out of a rude approach, is not my intention to read and interpret exactly the signs and message, cause:

– “If” could be sumerian signs the difficulty is great especially due the fact that we have pre-cuneiform an single sign had multiple meanings.It seems that they extracted the close meaning as resulting from the context. Consequently, the meaning/message in proto-writing=proto-cuneiform stage, could not be exactly determined,
– I have no necessary level of expertise, as Damerow,J.Dahl, R.Englund, A.A.Vaiman and al.

When I get close to those tablets some 10 years before I was strucked by the close ressemblance to letters.
Out of some 2 max.3 signs wich was very difficult to be included, the tablets could be read in every of three writing systems : 1. sumerian 2. Linear A,B 3.archaic greek alphabets

From those 3 signs I give twoo exemple:
– 1.bow-arrow sign and 2. “>>” sign for archaic greek reading ; 3.D shape signs(those signs were used much intensevely in carian, not to mention that there are equal chances to be written by carians ;
When I counted the signs carian won upon archaic greek… but carian signs were taken from greeks! So upon the expected age of the tablets,not sufficent old)

****

From The Invention of Writing :: Proto-Cuneiform in the Uruk Period Posted on MAY 25, 2019 Written by BRANDON WEST http://www.projectglobalawakening.com/proto-cuneiform-uruk-period/

Proto-Cuneiform Picture-Writing :: First Attempts At Writing

<< Around halfway through the Uruk Period, about 150 years into the Late Uruk Period which spans from about 3500-3100 BCE (bringing us to about 3350 BCE) is when we begin to see the first examples of writing. The Sumerians first attempts were all pictographic in nature. Meaning that when they first attempted to record ideas and concepts in a physical symbolic fashion, they began to do so by drawing pictures of the things that they were attempting to represent.

Their medium of choice was clay, which they would fashion into small rectangles (which were shaped somewhat like little pillows) which the accountant-scribe would scratch the glyphs into with the stalk of a reed which had been cut down to the right size. That was all the stylus they needed. Though in a couple of centuries they would eventually sharpen one end of the reed into a triangular shape for a more precise “sketching-edge” which in actuality was destined to revolutionize the whole nature of the script. >>

So we have all the signs on Tartaria tablets scratched (as does sumerians in that early stage) , no one imprinted as used sumerians for proto-cuneiform numbers !

<< Proto-Cuneiform Number Systems

For example, if you look right you will see that a small circular impression meant “10” while a conical impression stood for “1”.>>

Proto-Cuneiform Sexagesimal Number Signs They scraped the cereal/bread sign “ninda” (lowest, middle near the head sign) https://www.laarchaeology.org/the-beginning-of-history/

but not numerals/numbers !

See imprinted numerals “1′ in proto-cuneiform stage ! From The Tower of Babel Cuneiform in the Fertile Crescent, 3100-500 BCE http://literatureandhistory.com/index.php/episode-001-the-tower-of-babel

********************************** Ooops! Some fellows encountered same difficultyies with D-shape signs, but even when choosed to equate D-signs with moon , not continued and in the rest is quite out of matter. From https://cogniarchae.com/2015/10/29/tartaria-tablets-connection-between-vinca-and-proto-linear-b-script/
“So now, the hardest part. What are these D and O shaped signs. Even though they look like Latin letters, we don’t really see them in Linear scripts. EXCEPT in their measuring system. In some texts I read on the Tărtăria tablets sign “D” is represented as a symbol of the moon. It is interesting to see that in Linear B it represents volume, possibly given on a monthly bases. The second thing that is important to mention is that other signs represented in the lower part of the picture mean units of measurement. At the same time have phonetic value. (ie PE, ZE, MO…) So it is safe to say that if our D sign was really a unit of measurement, it also had a phonetic value. If so, what could it be? I believe it could be MO, even though MO is already a value of a different sign on a picture above.”
……………………………………………………………………
At the first glance one take notice of the cross division of the tablet or equal-cross drawn lines.
There are many opinions regarding the cross sign origin and supposed attached meaning in the course of the history.
For exemple the very begining, out of some paleolithic carvings, sumerians used very early round tokens with cross inscribed wich they used to record and mean sheep.

From https://cdli.ucla.edu/tools/SignLists/protocuneiform/archsigns.html

UTUsheep

UDU~b sheep/ From https://cdli.ucla.edu/tools/SignLists/protocuneiform/archsigns.html

MAS also has a cross shape MAS:”many”? From https://cdli.ucla.edu/tools/SignLists/protocuneiform/archsigns.html

From Sumerian Lexicon http://www.istor-konf-varna.com/history/JAH_SumLex_ALL.pdf de JA HALLORAN – máš: n., extispicy (divination based on the entrails of a sacrificed animal); sacrificial animal [MAŠ2.

A Descriptive Grammar of Sumerian – IS MU https://is.muni.cz/www/408176/38744863/A_Descriptive_Grammar_of_Sumerian.pdf de JW White ….. the noun maš or máš ‘kid‘

From http://enenuru.net/pdfs/SumerianFreq100_1500.pdf It is the sign “LU”:”to be abundant”

https://sites.utexas.edu/dsb/tokens/tokens-and-writing-the-cognitive-development/
Tokens and Writing: the Cognitive Development Denise Schmandt Besserat

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT8nkUrTh98KiJibBXxbr0YZ9D3DLZy7yQ_2YLW9JrBOTQQcuo

But the cross was also the sun-god icon

From https://www.naturepagan.com/babylonian-and-assyrian-translations : (“the Sun tablet”)

Cause of the sun-cross relation the round Tartaria tablet was nicknamed:” Tablita-Soare”(rom.) “THE SUN TABLET”
This cross was found also in Egypt related to Osiris and ressurection.
The Sun, resurection and its related icon and cross icon were before and at the origin of christian religion.

1-st QUARTER

First will begin with lower-right quarter. ( OVERALL DIRECTION OF READING,COUNTER-CLOCKWISE ! ) Picture of the quarter,taken from Moonlight in Romania: The Tărtăria Tablets /Keith Massey http://aplaceofbrightness.blogspot.ro/2008/11/moonlight-in-romania-tartaria-tablets_21.html

LOW-RIGHT

See the red sign Tart RED or here, No.6:

TRoundNumbered

For me this shape is conducting me to the idea of kind of portable altar with flames on upper side:

Note. Many other researcher have same opinion !

But in fact the sign is SZA

Another researcher (Andi Kaulins) found also SA,
http://lingwhizt.blogspot.com/2011/03/syllabic-grid-of-ancient-scripts-su.html ————————————————————————————————— The second sign near-by on the right side seems to be the icon of a sky-deity
Somebody article (to be checked!)

The Symbol of Shamash http://www.darkstar1.co.uk/ds17.html
”Given that the 1st Century Romans had inexplicably re-launched the Persian cult of Mithras, a ‘sun-god’ whose ritual practices had much in common with Early Christianity, then it may be equally possible that this coin carries forward the very ancient tradition of the Mesopotamian winged disc. However, I would question the bland assumption that all these symbols represent the Sun.
For instance, the shrine at Larsa devoted to the ‘sun-god’ Utu/Shamash is represented by quite different symbolism, that of ‘the crescent-with-sun-disc on top of an altar or tower temple with water at its base’ (4). This symbol includes two stars above the upturned crescent. The Egyptologist David Rohl notes that these depictions were often rotated to become more recognisable cuneiform symbols.

Thus, if we rotate this Shamash’s early symbol from Larsa 180 degrees, we obtain a disc within a crescent, accompanied by two stars. We seem to have the archetypal Mesopotamian and ancient Egyptian winged disc, complete with its two uraei. These uraei are two ‘divine cobras’ that are often shown as smaller discs attached to the central disc by two wavy lines. All of these symbols, then, appear to have a common framework, and this is in keeping with the Roman coin.”

But when checked.…great pleasing surprise”:
A Companion to Greek Mythology https://books.google.ro/books?isbn=1444396935
Ken Dowden, ‎Niall Livingstone -Thus, the Akkadian Nergal (god of the Underworld) may have been viewed as meaning ‘Lord of the Great City (Sumerian EN.URU.GAL).14 The Ugaritic Mot was king of this subterranean city: … (KTU 1.5 ii 13–16) This ‘concave kingdom’ is described in words which parodied the mountain dwelling of Baal, king of the gods.
From http://enenuru.proboards.com/thread/657/
Name Cuneiform Additional information Source
Enuru
(den-uru2) Retinue of Šamaš RlA2/p40

From http://enenuru.net/html/misc/enensilugal.htm

En [En] close to priest-lord

http://enenuru.proboards.com/thread/142/city-seals-early-political-alliances#ixzz58xP8fo57

This stands for – divine name + the sign UNU – . What is interesting to note is that these geographical names, for example UD+UNU (Larsa), or SHESH+UNU (Ur), seem to be direct adaptions of the Early protoliterate City Seals. This becomes clearer still when we note the cuneiform sign UNU, a part of the geographical names, (when flipped vertical) appears to be a direct adaption from the ‘base’ or ‘stand’ in the seals. It symbolises the abode of the deity, so UD+UNU, is the home of the Sun god, and the UNU is a part of his temple or ziggurat. And here we see the ePSD entry for unu as dwelling:

“unu [DWELLING] (1511x: Lagash II, Ur III, Old Babylonian) wr. unu6; unu2; unu “banquet; dining hall; the most sacred part of a temple; seat, throne; dwelling, domicile, abode; temple” Akk. mākalû; mūšabu; usukku; šubtu”

Any case, it is the sign of an astral god/goddess, like Astarte,Tanit or minoan-micenaean Asasara. Image from http://thingsinthree.blogspot.com/2011/07/before-tertius.html

From FRED C. WOUDHUIZEN DOCUMENTS IN MINOAN LUWIAN, SEMITIC, AND PELASGIAN https://docs.google.com/document/d/1MlXuANT4kcZHS4RZCLwSj1TS_lNP-JJaO9dfHtIqmI0/edit

. From a linguistic point of view, Nikolas Platon has suggested that the root a-sa-sa-ra may well be compared to the Phoenician divine name Asherat.46 In line with this suggestion, Jan Best—who for the divine name also pointed to Asherah from the Old Testa- ment—explained the enclitic element -me or -ma as a particle com- parable to Ugaritic -m as in balm “oh Baal!” and ilm “oh Il!”. ………………………..

As it seems, then, both the divine name and the grammatical features of the Linear A formula (y)a-sa-sa-ra.me or ya-sa-sa-ra-ma “oh Asherah!” are Old Phoenician. A similar conclusion no doubt holds good for its hiero- glyphic predecessor from the Early Minoan III/Middle Minoan I tran- sitional period (c. 2000 BC), now readable as a-sa1-sa1-ra-me or a- sa1-sa1-ra.me “Oh Asherah!” (the case with the punctuation mark in form of a hook concerns # 252 as depicted in Fig. 6a, no. I)………………………… Cretan hieroglyphic 30 of Asherah served as an asylum for international trade. More in general, the zealous veneration of the goddess may be compared to the predilection of the miners in Sinai for Baaalat of which their inscriptions in the Proto-Sinaitic alphabet, variously dated c. 1850 BC, c. 1600 BC or c. 1500 BC, bear testimony.

SO, IT IS SURE, MY SUPOSITION THAT THE SIGN IS THAT OF A CELESTIAL FEMALE DEITY as Baaalat / ASHERAH / Tanit (wich in turn, or beside it is related to mining and trade) IS RIGHT !! More than this, the tablets could be brought by a metalurgist,prospector,trader? from the south-east !

———————————————————————————————————————————————————————–

SECOND QUARTER

Upper-Right
(counter-clockwise)

From https://2.bp.blogspot.com/_DT_WSLrf76g/SSNCIVGnLGI/AAAAAAAAAC4/3y1gwcGR4os/s1600/NEgrid.JPG

Upper sign, +++++ If we think in Old Danubian script terms,

Din The Number System of the Old European Script Eric Lewin Altschuler, M.D., Ph.D. https://arxiv.org/html/math/0309157v1

“Also common is the comb motif (Table 1) with three to eight teeth 33 inscriptions. As the comb motif is used with so many different numbers of teeth and as the comb inscriptions seem to be used in a similar manner, and are found in similar places on pottery as the score mark inscriptions, we think these signs also denote numbers. We translate a comb with n (3 ≤ n ≤ 8) teeth as 10+n. Other possibilities are the numbers n or n+1 (n teeth plus the horizontal stroke), but these seem unlikely as there are already signs for n and n+1 (n or n+1 score marks).”

Deci 10+5=15 sau 5 (5+1/2=5,5?)

La sumerieni, din https://cdli.ucla.edu/tools/signlists/protocuneiform/archsigns.html signs ASZ2

In sumerian, the name of some numerals are : From http://it.stlawu.edu/~dmelvill/mesomath/Numerals.html

Number	Sumerian	Akkadian
1	diš, aš	išten
2	min	šina
3	eš	šalaš
4	limmu	erbe
5	ia	hamiš
6	aš	šediš

So if our sign has 5-6 comb teeth, this sign could mean phoneme aš or“6”

From http://doormann.tripod.com/engsum.htm As–Hur/All-seeing-one

https://www.bulgari-istoria-2010.com/…/Sumerian_Cuneiform_English_Dictionary_12….

5 mai 2000 – Inspiration for all this came out of not being able to find a Sumerian …… AŠ[191x] = 1 (“1” one numeric) | dili [227x] = (to be) single, unique, sole; …

From https://www.sumerian.org/prot-sum.htm aš: one; unique; alone. Folowing image, from https://emekurnet.wordpress.com/category/writing/

My rendering for the <5-teeth comb-like sign> is: AS : “WHEAT” ————————————————————————————— First of those “DD” (twoo D-shaped signs in the row), if is sumerian-inspired, one close in shape, could be:
GAR https://cdli.ucla.edu/tools/SignLists/protocuneiform/archsigns/GAR.jpg

http://enenuru.net/pdfs/SumerianFreq100_1500.pdf NINDA(GAR):”BREAD” GAR: ”to PLACE” Nig2 (GAR) :”THING”

D D, (?Reduplicated :”GAR GAR”= “to place, lay down….” ?)

http://mugsarsumerian.com/default.htm#a_GA
120FB GAR, NINDA [11296x] = bread, pastry, baked, food – determinative &ninda; bread / baked items | cf. less common12252 NINDA2 | gar(gar) [2505x] = place, to put, lay down; to give in place of something, replace; to posit (math.) | nig2(nig2) [1641x] = thing, possesion; something | nindan

From TĂRTĂRIa AND THE SACRED TABLETS XC. Investigating the signs on the circular tablet https://fashiondocbox.com/Jewelry/90885882-Tartaria-and-the-sacred-tablets.html “The crescent moon is visible in the shape of a celestial D 1522. The variant is not recorded in the inventory of the signs of the Danube script.

It is very similar to the shape individuated by Gh. Lazarovici with code 238f, meaning ‘fi

rst quarter of the moon’. The same sign was utilized to render the first crescent in a lunar cycle engraved on a stone around the second part of IV millennium BC

at Knowth (Boyne Valley, Ireland) 1523. The graphic concept is similar to that at the base of the ancient form of the Chinese character Yue4, meaning

’moon’. In the beginning, the pictograph was a new moon hanging in the sky. Gradually, a vertical stroke was added inside. I also assume the (sign image) as a symbol for the ‘fi

rst quarter of the moon’.The (sign image) finds partial graphic convergence with the sign 187 of the Indus script:1524 and in the ATU528 from the proto-cuneiform:(sign image)

The aforementioned sign D, which follows the, is registered in the inventory of the Danube script as DS 033.0, as previously analyzed “

Note Yes, could be “first qarter of the moon” but where’s the sign in proto-cuneiform sign lists? (Borger,Falkenstein,Yariz)

No, the first sign aforementioned by Mr. Merlini ATU528 (wich has 2 paralel strokes inside), is not as close to the real sign as the proto-cuneiform sign I’ve found: Much close to sign SUR (wich has an “L”-shaped sign inside!) : From https://cdli.ucla.edu/tools/SignLists/protocuneiform/archsigns.html

https://is.muni.cz/el/1421/jaro2013/PAPVB_13/um/…/Halloran_version_3.pdf

de JA Halloran

…. šur, sur: to rain; to produce a liquid; to flow, drip; to extract seed oil; to process wine …

From http://doormann.tripod.com/engsum.htm
Sur/Carry
Sur/Deep/furrow
Sur/Hang/down
Sur/Press/out
Sur/Squeeze
Sur/Warrior

My rendering for the first “D”-like sign is : SUR —————————————————————— The next, 2-nd D cannot be found as such in proto-cuneiform UCLA sign-list. I found exactly the D-sign in Falkenstei proto-cuneiform sign list, https://cdli.ucla.edu/tools/SignLists/ATU1.pdf as No.527 .There has no name, nor meaning indication.

Mr. Marco Merlini’s opinion: TĂRTĂRIa AND THE SACRED TABLETS XC. Investigating the signs on the circular tablet https://fashiondocbox.com/Jewelry/90885882-Tartaria-and-the-sacred-tablets.html page 320: “The D shape incised on the tablet from Tărtăria has convergences in the sign lists of many ancient systems of writing. We have mentioned some of them when discussing the D on the left quadrant. We have here to add that proto-cuneiform presents two kinds of D. We have already mentioned the rounded form D (ATU 709) when discussing this sign with a tail from the upper left quadrant. The sharp incised on the upper right quadrant finds graphic parallels with ATU 527. As substantiated in the next chapter, if the D is a lunar symbol in several early systems of writing and in rock art, at Tărtăria it stands for the Full Moon as the best suitable moment for human fecundation. So I suppose to be MOON ?

From http://oracc.museum.upenn.edu/amgg/listofdeities/nannasuen/?fbclid=IwAR1oqqhakRLYIfK2hrpFYWmZO8dc0jlr591mV2N2-CpFD5sHyH-MtULRge0 Mesopotamian moon god. He was called Nanna in Sumerian, and Su’en or Sin in Akkadian. My note: There were any Akkadians in the proto-cuneiform time, but the language could be connected to akkadian and semitic. ———————————————————— Folowing, two O-s: “O O”, or “oc”

From CRYPTCRACKER cryptcracker.blogspot.com/2007/03/oldest-west-semitic-inscriptions-these.html ” the circle (with or without a central dot) was the standard form in the Iron Age, eventually becoming the letter O (a vowel, no longer a consonant) in the Greek and Roman alphabets. In the syllabary (by my calculations) the circle is the sun (shimshu, hence SHI)”

They say: http://www.oocities.org/proto-language/ProtoLanguage-Monosyllables.htm

The Sumerian sign (Jaritz #750) means ‘hole’, and reads both u, ‘(oral) cavity’, and hu₃.

The sign O is proto-cuneiform LAGAB From https://cdli.ucla.edu/tools/SignLists/protocuneiform/archsigns.html

http://enenuru.net/pdfs/SumerianFreq100_1500.pdf LAGAB:”watercourse” LAGAB:”circle,hole“. But twoo circles 2xLAGAB, is the sign NIGIN

Nigin, “to encircle” ,”roam about” V12.COMPARATIVE ENCYCLOPEDIC DICTIONARY OF MESOPOTAMIAN VOCABULARY … https://books.google.ro/books?isbn=1312229934 Nigin: Sumerian. Verb. To round up. Nigin: Sumerian. Verb. To include. Nigin: Sumerian. Verb. To bring in. Nigin: Sumerian. Verb. To encircle. Nigin: Sumerian.to confine

From http://doormann.tripod.com/engsum.htmNigin/Circulate
Nigin/Enclosure
Nigin/Go/round
Nigin/Revolve
Nigin/Surround/(to)
Nigin/Wander/(to) From V12.COMPARATIVE ENCYCLOPEDIC DICTIONARY OF MESOPOTAMIAN VOCABULARY … https://books.google.ro/books?isbn=1312229934 Nierime (Nierim): Sumerian. Adjective. Wrong … Total. Nigin: Sumerian. Noun. Totality. Nigin: Sumerian. Adverb. All together. Nigin: … The whole amount. Nigin: .

So…. hard to say….I am tempted to exclude from the begining to be an administrative tablet, as to have here simple numbers. Based on three assumptions: 1. sumerians made numbers by imprinting, not by scratching 2.scientists said that the tablets could be involved in a kind of religious ritual 3.no reason in this case (numbers) to cover (as M.Merlini supposed) upper half of the tablet wich contain an supposed esoteric content..

So, maybe: A. AS ……….GAR-GAR NIGIN “One(God)….(to)Place,confine enclosure —————————————————– B. AS SUR Moon Nigin :”one(god) “rain,flow,river ..MOON(God)…enclosure,total,whole”

(? As-sur:” one warrior encircle,wander,surround”?) ——————————————————- C. What about a rendering wich partly satisfy Mr,Merlini rendering and mine?: …………GOD SUR MOON FULL ………….GOD CARRY FULL MOON —————————————————– D. AS GAR DIS LAGAB LAGAB See number 10, from http://www.ancientscripts.com/sumerian.html

WHEAT NINDA(ratio,cereal,bread) 1 10 10 “21 WHEAT RATIOS“ (more…)

Tags:History, KOGAION, Linguistics, PROTO-CUNEIFORM, Tartaria tablets, VINCA-TURDAS CIVILISATION
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