Here you see how much close is the origin of greek At the origin point,wereProto-Aegean/Vinca-Turdas cultures. The point is very close to the origin of PIE and Anatolian languages.This could be noticed in the Anatolian-Eastern characteristics wich could be traced in Mycenaean and much more in Minoan languages.
See how close to the origin there are twoo languages of the twoo neighbouring countries Greece and Albania.
After this point,but close to it, possible was: https://wikivisually.com/wiki/Proto-Euphratean_language Proto-Euphratean is a hypothetical unclassified language or languages which was considered by some Assyriologists (for example Samuel Noah Kramer), to be the substratum language of the people that introduced farming into Southern Iraq in the Early Ubaid period (5300-4700 BC).
Dyakonov and Ardzinba identified these hypothetical languages with the Samarran culture.[1]
Benno Landsberger and other Assyriologists argued that by examining the structure of Sumerian names of occupations, as well as toponyms and hydronyms, one can suggest that there was once an earlier group of people in the region who spoke an entirely different language, often referred to as Proto-Euphratean. Terms for “farmer”, “smith”, “carpenter”, and “date” (as in the fruit), also do not appear to have a Sumerian or Semitic origin.
Linguists coined a different term, “banana languages,” proposed by Igor Dyakonov and Vladislav Ardzinba, based on a characteristic feature of multiple personal names attested in Sumerian texts, namely reduplication of syllables (like in the word banana): Inanna, Zababa, Chuwawa, Bunene etc. The same feature was attested in some other unclassified languages, including Minoan, the same feature is allegedly attested by several names of Hyksos rulers: although Hyksos tribes were Semitic, some of their names, like Bnon, Apophis, etc. were apparently non-Semitic by origin.[2]
Rubio challenged the substratum hypothesis, arguing that there is evidence of borrowing from more than one language, this theory is now predominant in the field (Piotr Michalowski, Gerd Steiner, etc.).
A related proposal by Gordon Whittaker[3] is that the language of the proto-literary texts from the Late Uruk period (c. 3350–3100 BC) is an early Indo-European language which he terms “Euphratic”.
This the point is that of proto-elamite=ancient sumero tamil=sumerian.After that point diverged indic languages and Proto-Indo European-ones.
That’s why many Indo-European languages keep strong sanskrit traces.
In a way or another in neolithic-bronze ages were twoo different coming waves, and there was a population>cultural influx toward Europe from East.From PIE Indo-Hittite branch, Anatolian one remained in Anatolia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neolithic_Europe#/media/File:Neolithic_expansion.svg
So, in any circumstances,the supposed writings could not depass the limits:
-not older than proto-elamite=ancient sumero-tamil=sumerian 3200 B.C.
-Not younger (but same-how possible only for the round tablet)than 2200-1450 B.C. wich is the time between cretan hierogliphic,linear A and linear B.
“Between 3000/2600 and 1450, the period of the birth and development of Cretan Hieroglyphic and Linear A, […] the introduction of a language known to us from elsewhere is unlikely.”
Thus in my opinion the expected language is or close to an early Indo-European language which he terms “Euphratic”.
SCIENTISTS ALLREADY CORRECTLY NOTICED (ME ALSO FULLY AGREE)THAT THE CLOSEST WRITING SYSTEM TO THE SIGNS PRESENT ON TARTARIA TABLETS IS SUMERIAN PROTO-CUNEIFORM.
THE PURPOSE OF PRESENT APPROACH IS ONLY TO TEST HOW CLOSE WOULD BE THE ROUND TARTARIA TABLET TO AEGEAN WRITING.
Acknowledgement
I am studing these Tartaria tablets from more than 10 years. Soon after seeing their pictures, I was attracted bewitched/enchanted by the apparent close appearance of signs (especially the upper half of the round tablet) to those of archaic greek. (archaic eta=Heta; zeta,etc.) First af all it seems that ON ALL TABLETS THERE ARE A CONCOURSE OF DIFFERENT TYPE OF SIGNS (PICTOGRAPHIC,IDEOGRAM/SYLLABOGRAMS AND POSSIBLE LETTERS).
But there are some questions wich wait answers:
– Nobody could explain an such early appearance of D-shape signs. They appeared first in Europe in Linear B as representing volume measures units and later in archaic Greek. I had difficulties also with the bow-arrow and “>>” signs.
I SEARCHED IN WICH WRITING MOST OF THE SIGNS ARE TO BE FOUND – Cretan hierogliphic show an old influence from sumerian and Anatolian writings. For signs/icons placed right-downward quarter not found easy matching. They seem to be complex ideograms or kind of ligatured signs. – For carian most of the signs were found. Highest average ! 80%. But pitty, not all signs!. Dificulty arouse not because one suppose or expect (cannot find carian signs), but because they used different signs-shapes-letterss-readings in different ages and places,despite their very greek origin. Not even talk about the carian language wich is partly understood only be 1-2 men (e.g. Ignacio Adiego) out of entire world. There are in total 25 carian alphabets. So the writing and the language each taken apart are difficult and that both combined give a GREAT MESS. – Other European writings as italic-venetic,iberian ond others from Europe has shown an phenomenom like frome some phoenician source letters dispersed all-over Mediterranean area. Table, from Alphabetos de ayer y de hoy http://proel.org/index.php?pagina=alfabetos :
No one writing system could match found/read entirely.
Don’t believe, this happened much easy when used the proto-cuneiform sumerian library of signs.
It seems that sumerians allready wrote novels before Aegeans passed from Cretan hieroglyphic to linear A> linear B.
There is a span of close to 1.000 years (700), when they used writing (3.200 BC)before Aegean/Europe (2.500BC) begun. (3.200 BC sumerian proto-cuneiform and 2500 Cretan hieroglyphic and Linear A). This folowing picture is from hand-made by me replica.
This shape is conducting me (and not a single opinion)to the idea of kind of portable altarwith flames on upper side (as this real portable-altar from Vinca Culture)
But much close is linear A(also upside-down),sign AB 45
Note.Overall shape of the tablet (cross in circle) is above linear A shape AB77.
But much close to before discussed sign is the linear A “DE” sign
in normal position and in other occurencies turned upside-down
.Fig. 54. – Symbols derived from the Egyptian Ankh. 1. The Ankh. 2. Two-armed Egyptian Form. 3 and 4. Hittite Types. 5. From Mycenaean Ring. 6. On Carthaginian Stele.
Close to linear A, AB 80 “E”,or “RI”
See E signs shape, especially that one down-middle-one
Minoan snake goddess figurines – Revolvy https://www.revolvy.com/…/index.php?s=Minoan%20snake%20goddess%20figurines…
The snake goddess’s Minoan name may be related with A-sa-sa-ra, a possible interpretation of inscriptions found in Linear A texts. Although Linear A is not yet deciphered, Palmer relates tentatively the inscription a-sa-sa-ra-me which seems to have accompanied goddesses, with the Hittite išhaššara, which means …
Syrio-Hittite Venus 18-1000 BC Central and southwest Anatolia northern Syria
The goddess Astarte is much like the contemporary Venus we see on Cyprus. Large holes apparently for ring decoration (referred to as being “pegged”), palm sized with stubby arms are a common style among other cultures too. The pinched face is found on the stubby armed figurines as well as the pillar shaped statuettes.
Greek Mycenaean PSI type terracotta female, 1300-230 B.C.
with upraised arms and dark brown decorations; it shows
that the Minoan civilization was much more advanced, but
the very same idea is depicted here.
Please note the consistent raising of the arms,
From DOCUMENTS IN MINOAN LUWIAN, SEMITIC, AND PELASGIAN FRED C. WOUDHUIZEN file:///C:/Users/User/Downloads/Documents_in_Minoan_Luwian_Semitic_and_P.pdf
“From these data, it may be deduced that the most important deity, with (if we include the abbreviated instances) 17 occurrences in sum, is Asasara, 3 who has been convincingly identified with the Semitic mother-goddess Asherat or Asherah. The most characteristic symbol of this goddess is the double axe, which in writing functions for the expression of the initial vowel of her name, a (E36 or CHIC 042), and as such may be used on its own to refer to her in abbreviation.4 On the south pillar of the pillar crypt in Malia (see Fig. 75), the symbol of Asherah occurs twice in combination with that of a star with either six or eight points. Now, against the backdrop of the identification of the main goddess as Asherah, it stands to reason that we are dealing here with the symbol of the daughter of this mothergoddess, Ashtarte, whose name originates from PIE *h2stḗr- “star”, but we can as yet not be certain of this as we lack an instance of this divine name written out in full. However, this same shortcoming does not affect the symbol of the storm-god in the form of a trident on the north pillar of this same pillar crypt at Malia, because the hieroglyphic inscriptions from the palace of Malia and Quartier Mu at the same site positively allow for the latter’s identification as Luwian Tarkhu(nt). In these texts, namely, the name of Tarkhunt occurs in the form of the goat’s head sign TARKU (E65 or CHIC016) as much as 11 times, and is in frequency outmatched only by that of Asherah referred to in abbreviation by the double axe as much as 12 times (note that in two instances, # 098 and # 112, both deities occur together in the same text). On the other hand, it should be realized that the storm-god may also be referred to by Semitic forms of address like Haddu or Baªal, as it happens to be the case in the text of the discus from Phaistos (# 333), and the altar stone from Malia (# 328) which according to its legend ultimately originates from Skheria (= Hagia Triada) also in the Mesara. In reality, this change from a Luwian to a Semitic form of address for the storm-god may not have been as fundamental for the Minoans as it might seem to us at first sight, as on the A-side of the discus of Phaistos the storm-god is referred to in his Luwian form Tarkh˙unt, again, by his symbol the trident or bolt of lightning
The right sign is close to signAB 80,linear A “E”( or RI) RIGHT SIGN, LINEAR A “E” or AN ASTRAL DEITY (as ASASARA) —————————————————————————
LEFT RIGHT
Hier.DE linA E?
linA AB45 linA AB80
linA DE linA RI, linA MA
Compared vith linear B,
Also,not much difference:Lin.B:
LEFTRIGHT E E DE E
Reading: De ; Ri/E ; EDE:”EAT“/gr. edo:”(I) eat” …………..ede, the same as in quadrant with signs HD:(h)eDe (P.I.E.:”hED“)
Note
The signs seem to be independent icons, not to be read both as a word
( both signs ,DeRI/RiDe EDE DE-MA ?)
Upper sign,(encircled-one) +++++ ! THERE IS NO SUCH SIGN 5-teeth comb in Aegean writings ! FromJOHN JOUNGER’s blog, http://people.ku.edu/~jyounger/LinearA/ *171, logogram on ZA 6a with agricultural commodities (perhaps also on THE Zb 5); in Linear B, it occurs with livestock (fodder? TH nodules)
===================================================================== Down, in a row : D D o o (or D D o c ?) As a long row of researchers supposed to have in those 4 signs the Moon phases, this could be taken in account, so representing a full Month with its main phases. Otherwise, I do not know of no single instance, in any known writing, other yhan Jiahu script, where the D-shape to represent the moon. Only as C-shape: IURII MOSENKIS file:///C:/Users/User/Downloads/HELLENIC_ORIGIN_OF_EUROPE_Formation_of_t.pdf‘Sign *034 “C“has been suggested to represent MNA (or, if a disyllabic value can be
accepted, MINA), based on its resemblance to the crescent moon (Pope and Raison 1978, 28;Packard 1974, 107; Furumark 1956, 24). And while this idea has not received wide-spread agreement, it may be correct. ————————————————————————————————————————- The D-shape sign is missing in all Aegean before-alphabetic writings ! The folowing is a try, “in place of”/emergency solution. No credit for my part. : D D :Two months? ; From http://minoablog.blogspot.com/2012/04/exploring-cretan-numeral-system.html
*309, only TY 2 in three variations *309a *309b– *309c – ———————————————————————
Siggn “C” From http://people.ku.edu/~jyounger/LinearA/ Sign *034 has been suggested by several scholars to represent MNA (or, if a disyllabic value can be accepted, MINA), based on its resemblance to the crescent moon (Pope and Raison 1978, 28; Packard 1974, 107; Furumark 1956, 24).
D D o o MOON/remain,abidex2=plural egg/oo,oio/originate
DD oo MENOMENoio menoio=menoio(s) “MINoan(s)”
See people.ds.cam.ac.uk/naz21/bird_and_egg.Zair.pdfPDF PIE ‘bird’ and ‘egg’ after Schindler
de N ZAIR
(The sumerian proto-cuneiform signs and archaic greek letters are fitting much easier/very easy) NOTE THAT: – ALLMOST ALL OF EARLIER WORLD WRITINGS WERE ECONOMICAL ACCOUNTS – IN 3 SOME OF THE FIRST WRITINGS, D-SIGNS WAS FOR : 1.BEVELED BOWL, DISH.DAYLY (bread,cereal)RATIO,BREAD in sumerian proto-cuneiform 2. “LOAF OF BREAD“,”T” in Egypt 3. VOLUME MEASURE IN LINEAR B
Folowing, the moon-like sign D-shaped ! THERE IS NO D-shaped sign IN AEGEAN WRITINGS EXCEPT for VOLUME UNIT !
I try to be read Mi-Ni,Me-No,ME-NA ( the MOON )
If we have linear B “PA3” then PA-MEN >gr.PHAMEN
φημί • (phēmí) https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%CF%86%CE%B7%CE%BC%CE%AF
1.I speak, say.
1.I think
2.(of an author) I write
3.(φησί or ἔφη used when quoting, sometimes after another verb of saying) quotations ▼
2.I say yes, agree, affirm, assert
1.(with οὐ) I say no, deny, refuse quotations ▼
2.(φημί or οὕτως φημί as interjection) yes, I would say so
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%CF%80%CE%BF%CE%B9%CE%BC%CE%AE%CE%BD
Mycenaean Greek (po-me), Latin pascō (“put to graze”), pāstor (“shepherd”), Sanskrit पाति (pā́ti),
——————————————–
My note
Gr.hed>ed (eat) Pa(teomai)(eat)
In PIE ed :to bite=to eat used same root ED related also with teeth (edontos)
ed-, edi- – Word Information
wordinfo.info/unit/4532/ip:1/il:E
Latin: edere, “to bite, to eat; eating, eatable; consume” … Etymology: from Indo-European ed-, “eat” which produced the basic word for “eat” in many European languages. From Greek edein and Latin edere, “to eat”. eatable (adjective), more eatable, most eatable. Referring to something that is safe toeat: People have to be …
b The Greek words ‘hedea’. (‘pleasant-things’} and ‘hedonai’ (‘pleasures’) can denote,. 61 firstly, things or events external to the agent, secondly,. 62 the agent’s bodily sensations, and, thirdly, certain. 61 In Homer, the word ‘hedu’ seems to function in much the same way as ‘gluku’-z’Sweet’), ..
Wich come to kid <=>gr./lat.:hed,hedus= sweet FromANISTORITON Journal of History, Archaeology, ArtHistory: Viewpoints http://www.a nistor.gr/english/enback/v053.htm One of the faces reads: Pa–me-ni po-lo 100 The foals (polo(i)) for this year (pameni has the dative ending, but cf. Greek pammenos) Please also note that the …
signs PAMoon > PA–MENI, PAMMENOS :”ALLMONTHs=(this) YEAR !!
Phaistos – Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phaistos Phaistos also transliterated as Phaestos, Festos and Latin Phaestus, currently refers to a … After 1955 the place name, 𐀞𐀂𐀵,pa-i-to, interpreted as Phaistos (written in Mycenaean Greek), began to turn up in the Linear B tablets at Knossos,
MINOAN GREEK SOCIETY IN LINEAR A | iurii mosenkis – Academia.eduwww.academia.edu/…/MINOAN_GREEK_SOCIETY_IN_LI… … form of Greek ϕάϜος ‘light’ and means ‘the mostlighted‘ (*φαϜ–ιστ-ος)1. … Four main palaces of Neopalatial period (Knossos, Phaistos, Mallia, and Kato …
PAi, as in PASIPFAI ; PA=PASI =”All” as in Pasitheoi “all gods” PA/PAi -(whatever Moon name) >? PA/PAi–Mi-Ni(mene,meinei) =”ALL/LIGHTEDMOON” ?? P.S. One would think “all Moon” as Full Moon or as entire phases….
(The combination PA +Volume unit is kind of nonsense : ALL VOLUME UNITS!?ALL BOWL!?) FINAL READING : PA+VOLUME UNIT/DISH >> ALL (CEREAL) BOWLS/PORTIONS (?)
Linear B,”ZO”?
NO-one match entirely,only “XE=Kse” from Cypriot syllabary
——————————————————————————– Next right sign “>>” THERE ISNO SUCH SIGN IN AEGEAN WRITINGS !
Match only “Pi” from cypriot syllabary, and linear A > :”TI” From http://people.ku.edu/~jyounger/LinearA/ *37 (TI), common My note:but is 90 deg. rotated! AT THE LIMIT/FORCED READING:”TI”
—————————————————————————————- The last,downward it is linear A/B “PA” ——————————————————————— Now all 3 signs appear: WA TiTi
PA or Cypriot: Xe Pi
No mycenaean word xe-Pi,Pi-Pa or that kind. This could be the end of my attempt to read this tablet using Mycenaean signs (Cretan Hieroglyphic/Minoan Linear A/B signs). I cannot take some signs from one writing and other on the tablet from another syllabary or writing. This could be a good exemple for proving a writing not partain of one supposed writing system (syllabary in our case) Pro-argument to use (Mr.Vallance Janke, http://minoablog.blogspot.ro/2010/02/how-to-read-minoan-hieroglyphics.html ): “And I do agree with the theory thatHieroglyphic signs are ultimately ancestralto the Linear sytems.These includenot only Linear A, but also its offsrings outside Crete, such as Linear B in mainland Greece,Cypro-Minoan and Linear C on Cyprus.”
In terms of culture, the Hurrians (like their other relatives the Sumerians), believe in the sky diety ANU. … SIRUTE KERAIZO SIRU to destroy
SIRU PA :”Rase/DESTROY ALL” ? Maybe; as smashing all items(idols) used in ritual? Could be. ———————————————————————————————————————— IT SEEMS THAT THIS TABLET IS NOT WRITTEN IN AN AEGEAN WRITING, RATHER IN SOME ANATOLIAN VARIANT ! From Alphabets of Asia Minor https://tied.verbix.com/project/script/asiam.html
Linear A Equivalents”