Archive for March, 2018

Supposed related cultures to Tartaria tablets

March 20, 2018



First,an my opinion,this is the broad lanscape:

Here you see how much close is the origin of greek At the origin point,wereProto-Aegean/Vinca-Turdas cultures. The point is very close to the origin of PIE and Anatolian languages.This could be noticed in the Anatolian-Eastern characteristics wich could be traced in Mycenaean and much more in Minoan languages.

See how close to the origin there are twoo languages of the twoo neighbouring countries Greece and Albania.

Going even more back in time,

We see that there is a common point in wich diverged Dravidian and the branch containing PIE.Folowing map,from:                         

After this point,but close to it, possible was:
Proto-Euphratean is a hypothetical unclassified language or languages which was considered by some Assyriologists (for example Samuel Noah Kramer), to be the substratum language of the people that introduced farming into Southern Iraq in the Early Ubaid period (5300-4700 BC).
Dyakonov and Ardzinba identified these hypothetical languages with the Samarran culture.[1]
Benno Landsberger and other Assyriologists argued that by examining the structure of Sumerian names of occupations, as well as toponyms and hydronyms, one can suggest that there was once an earlier group of people in the region who spoke an entirely different language, often referred to as Proto-Euphratean. Terms for “farmer”, “smith”, “carpenter”, and “date” (as in the fruit), also do not appear to have a Sumerian or Semitic origin.
Linguists coined a different term, “banana languages,” proposed by Igor Dyakonov and Vladislav Ardzinba, based on a characteristic feature of multiple personal names attested in Sumerian texts, namely reduplication of syllables (like in the word banana): Inanna, Zababa, Chuwawa, Bunene etc. The same feature was attested in some other unclassified languages, including Minoan, the same feature is allegedly attested by several names of Hyksos rulers: although Hyksos tribes were Semitic, some of their names, like Bnon, Apophis, etc. were apparently non-Semitic by origin.[2]
Rubio challenged the substratum hypothesis, arguing that there is evidence of borrowing from more than one language, this theory is now predominant in the field (Piotr Michalowski, Gerd Steiner, etc.).
A related proposal by Gordon Whittaker[3] is that the language of the proto-literary texts from the Late Uruk period (c. 3350–3100 BC) is an early Indo-European language which he terms “Euphratic”.

This the point is that of proto-elamite=ancient sumero tamil=sumerian.After that point diverged indic languages and Proto-Indo European-ones.


That’s why many Indo-European languages keep strong sanskrit traces.
In a way or another in neolithic-bronze ages were twoo different coming waves, and there was a population>cultural influx toward Europe from East.From PIE Indo-Hittite branch, Anatolian one remained in Anatolia.

Folowing map,from:

So, in any circumstances,the supposed writings could not depass the limits:
-not older than proto-elamite=ancient sumero-tamil=sumerian 3200 B.C.
-Not younger (but same-how possible only for the round tablet)than 2200-1450 B.C. wich is the time between cretan hierogliphic,linear A and linear B.


Beside I am not confident about supposed age of the tablets 5.200 B.C. wich is not at all possible in my opinion.(Romanian schollars gave this age of the tablets as beeing the same !? of some bones found near-by.)
“Between 3000/2600 and 1450, the period of the birth and development of Cretan Hieroglyphic and Linear A, […] the introduction of a language known to us from elsewhere is unlikely.”

Thus in my opinion the expected language is or close to an early Indo-European language which he terms “Euphratic”.


March 18, 2018




I am studing these Tartaria  tablets from more than 10 years. Soon after seeing their pictures, I was attracted bewitched/enchanted by the apparent close appearance of signs (especially the upper half of the round tablet)to those of archaic greek. But all (signs archaic eta=Heta; zeta,etc.)                                                                                                      Despite my effortts, even I found most of the signs in
-archaic greek or in
-cretan hieroglyphic/linear A/B or in
-carian & others e.g. venetic,iberian etc.
The number of signs found in every writing could not depass an average percentage of say 80-85% of entire alphabet signs.
– Nobody could explain an such early appearance of D-shape signs. They appeared in Europe in archaic Greek.I had difficulties with the bow-arrow  and “>>” signs.                        – Cretan hierogliphic show an old influence from sumerian,egyptian &anatolian writings. For signs/icons placed right-downward quarter not found esy matching.                           – For carian most of the signs were found. Highest average ! 90%. But pitty, not all signs!. Dificulty arouse not because one  suppose or expect, say cannot find carian signs, but because they  used different signs-shapes-letterss-readings in different ages and places, despite their very greek origin. Not even talk about the carian language wich is partly understood only be 1-2 men (e.g. Adiego) out of entire world.  There are in total 25 carian alphabets. So the writing and the language are each taken apart difficult and that both combined give a GREAT MESS.                                                                                   – Other European writings as italic-venetic,iberian ond others from Europe had show an phenomenom like frome some phoenician source dispersed all-over Mediterranean area. Table, from Alphabetos de ayer y de hoy:

No one writing system could match found/read entirely.
Don’t believe, this happened much easy when used the proto-cuneiform sumerian library of signs.
It seems that sumerians allready wrote novels before Aegeans passed from Cretan hieroglyphic to linear A> linear B.
There is a span of 1.000 years when they used writing (3.000 BC)before Aegean/Europe (2.000BC) begun.                                                                                                                           (3.200 BC sumerian proto-cuneiform and 2200 Cretan hieroglyphic,1500-linear A.).               This folowing picture is from hand-made by me replica.


1-st QUADRANT ( downward half- on the right )

See the red sign  downward-right quarter                                                                                           From

Tart RED

This shape is conducting me (and not a single opinion)to the idea of kind of portable altar with flames on upper side (as this real portable-altar from Vinca Culture)

The sign in a way is close to cretan hieroglyphic sign DE, ( turned upside-down)             From



But much close is linear A(also upside-down),sign AB 45

Note.Overall shape of the tablet (cross in circle) is above linear A shape AB77.
But much close to before discussed sign is the linear A “DE” sign
in normal position and in other occurencies turned upside-down

But in the same position also DE in LINEAR B From


FINAL READING:”DE”, or COMPLEX IDEOGRAM for ESCHARA/ALTAR (!incense burner !)                —————————————————————————————————-  On the right,



.Fig. 54. – Symbols derived from the Egyptian Ankh. 1. The Ankh. 2. Two-armed Egyptian Form. 3 and 4. Hittite Types. 5. From Mycenaean Ring. 6. On Carthaginian Stele.

Close to linear A, AB 80 “E”,or “RI”
See E signs shape, especially that one down-middle-one

Or even linear A, “MA” (having included a horizontal ligature?) From John Jounger           *80 MA, perhaps a logogram on HT 146.3, 110b.2, 5 (cf. Linear B ma-ra-tu-wo)

The sign has appearance of a female deity:

Minoan snake goddess figurines – Revolvy…/index.php?s=Minoan%20snake%20goddess%20figurines…
The snake goddess’s Minoan name may be related with A-sa-sa-ra, a possible interpretation of inscriptions found in Linear A texts. Although Linear A is not yet deciphered, Palmer relates tentatively the inscription a-sa-sa-ra-me which seems to have accompanied goddesses, with the Hittite išhaššara, which means …

Syrio-Hittite Venus 18-1000 BC Central and southwest Anatolia northern Syria
The goddess Astarte is much like the contemporary Venus we see on Cyprus. Large holes apparently for ring decoration (referred to as being “pegged”), palm sized with stubby arms are a common style among other cultures too. The pinched face is found on the stubby armed figurines as well as the pillar shaped statuettes.



Greek Mycenaean PSI type terracotta female, 1300-230 B.C.
with upraised arms and dark brown decorations; it shows
that the Minoan civilization was much more advanced, but
the very same idea is depicted here.
Please note the consistent raising of the arms,

The right sign is close to linear A, AB 80 or RI

Hier.DE linA E?
linA AB45 linA AB80
linA DE linA RI, linA MA
Compared vith linear B,

Also,not much difference:Lin.B:

DE          E

Reading: De ; Ri/E ;  EDE:”EAT /gr. edo:”(I) eat” …………..ede, the same as in quadrant with signs HD:(h)eDe (P.I.E.:”hED”)
The signs seem to be independent icons, not to be read both as a word
( both signs ,DeRI/RiDe EDE DE-MA ?)

EDE:”,this one,NOW / lat.2-nd imp. “lat.EAT,feed!/Dispatch !”(gr.edo:I eat)

FINAL READING OF THE SIGN SITUATE ON THE RIGHT:                                                 “E”/”MA” ? or complex ideogram of an astral deity as ASASARA


It seems that there are not words, (E-DE/DE-MA) but rather ideograms/logograms:   altar.incense burner <&> fem.astral deity Asasara-like




Upper sign,(encircled-one)  +++++                                                                                                   From JOGN JOUNGER’s blog,

 *171, logogram on ZA 6a with agricultural commodities (perhaps also on THE Zb 5); in Linear B, it occurs with livestock (fodder? TH nodules)

Sign +++++
Cretan Te,”wheat” Cretan hieroglyphs, From

                                                                                        From From g/ideograms/

comparison of Cretan TE with symbol for wheat or barley in various ancient scripts                                             John Jounger     *171, “logogram on ZA 6a with agricultural commodities (perhaps also on THE Zb 5); in Linear B, it occurs with livestock (fodder? TH nodules)” =====================================================================     Down, in a row : D D o o (or D D o c ?)                                                                                          As a long row of researchers supposed to have in those 4 signs the Moon phases, this could be taken in account, so representing a full Month with its main phases. Otherwise, I do not know of no single instance, in any known writing, other yhan Jiahu script, where the D-shape to represent the moon.  Only as C-shape:                                                                                                                                               IURII MOSENKIS file:///C:/Users/User/Downloads/HELLENIC_ORIGIN_OF_EUROPE_Formation_of_t.pdf‘Sign *034C“has been suggested to represent MNA (or, if a disyllabic value can be
accepted, MINA), based on its resemblance to the crescent moon (Pope and Raison 1978, 28;Packard 1974, 107; Furumark 1956, 24). And while this idea has not received wide-spread agreement, it may be correct.                                                                                                ————————————————————————————————————————-                        The D-shape sign is missing in all Aegean before-alphabetic writings !  The folowing is a try, “in place of”/emergency solution. No credit for my part.                                                  :  D D :Two months? ; From


2 measures of grain, 0,8 litre/each? folowed by number 200 ! nonsense !

Sign “o”            Cretan hieroglyphic sign 073                                                                                                                                                    A TABLE OF SIMILARITIES…/signary.pdf.. 073 qe (kwe),                           Cretan Hieroglyphic Grids .. 073 KU3

                       Linear A , sign A309a                                                                                                              From John JOUNGER

sign A309, only TY 2 in three variations *309a and…. (me:nothing about meaning)

oo“-signs: mycenaean”100 ;-100” so 200 ?

D D o o : two months + 200 ?                                                                                                                     D=meno


me-no       menos            meinos                                                                                                               …………men>menas  mein>meinas

 month (men= month/moon/anAnatolian deity)

men’-o  Verb
  1. to remain, abide
    1. in reference to place
      1. to sojourn, tarry
      2. not to depart 1a
    2. to continue to be present 1a
    3. to be held, kept, continually
    4. in reference to time
      1. to continue to be, not to perish, to last, endure 1b
    5. of persons, to survive, live
    6. in reference to state or condition
      1. to remain as one, not to become another or different
  2. to wait for, await one    μαινόμενος livid{ adjective }very angry, furious

                D                                            o       o                                                                                    MOON/remain,abidex2=plural    egg/oo,oio/originate                                                           

D             oo                                                                                                                                        MENO MENoio              menoio=menoio(s) “MINoan(s)”

See PIE ‘bird’ and ‘egg’ after Schindler

(The sumerian proto-cuneiform signs and archaic greek letters are fitting much easier/very easy)




See archaic Heta-like sign No.6 “NU”?

Linear A sign “BE”/”PE”?? No!                                                 

(but exact shape of linear B sign PA3) From John Jounger   *56 (PA3), HT 9b.1, 132.2, 34.6

Indo-European and the Indo-Europeans – CLAS Users
*peh2- ‘protect; feed’ (آHittite:ً pa-ah-sa(pahsa): protect, guards 3sg.Skt. pa-ti ‘protects’) : *peh2-trom / *peh2-dhlom … OPULENT (same root [*op-1] as Lat. opera ‘works’ etc.).

Reconstruction:Proto-Indo-European/peh₂- – Wiktionary₂-
to reconstruct *h₃ … Ancient Greek: πατέομαι (patéomai, “to eat”).

Folowing, the moon-like sign D-shaped
I propose to be read Mi-Ni,Me-No,ME-NA ( the MOON )

A TABLE OF SIMILARITIES                                  .? (as in me-na. . the moon), or qim (kwi, as in qi-si-pe- e, Proto-Hellenic *ménos, from Proto-Indo-European *ménos (“mind”

Pe-MeNa ??                                                                                                                                  PEMEN >> gr.phemen see
gr.Phemi> phamen, phaimen

If we have linear B “PA3” then PA-MEN >gr.PHAMEN
φημί • (phēmí)
1.I speak, say.
1.I think
2.(of an author) I write
3.(φησί or ἔφη used when quoting, sometimes after another verb of saying) quotations ▼
2.I say yes, agree, affirm, assert
1.(with οὐ) I say no, deny, refuse quotations ▼
2.(φημί or οὕτως φημί as interjection) yes, I would say so₂-
Semantic shift from “protector” towards “shepherd, herder” can be seen in many branches, signifying the importance of herding. Unusual is the o-grade root in Greek ποιμήν (poimḗn, “shepherd, herdsman”),
Mycenaean Greek  (po-me), Latin pascō (“put to graze”), pāstor (“shepherd”), Sanskrit पाति (pā́ti),
My note
Gr.hed>ed (eat) Pa(teomai)(eat)
In PIE ed :to bite=to eat used same root ED related also with teeth (edontos)

ed-, edi- – Word Information
Latin: edere, “to bite, to eat; eating, eatable; consume” … Etymology: from Indo-European ed-, “eat” which produced the basic word for “eat” in many European languages. From Greek edein and Latin edere, “to eat”. eatable (adjective), more eatable, most eatable. Referring to something that is safe toeat: People have to be …

Note also:
Sumerian HEDU:”ornament” (En-hedu-ana),and

use of theses – ANU Repository
b The Greek words ‘hedea’. (‘pleasant-things’} and ‘hedonai’ (‘pleasures’) can denote,. 61 firstly, things or events external to the agent, secondly,. 62 the agent’s bodily sensations, and, thirdly, certain. 61 In Homer, the word ‘hedu’ seems to function in much the same way as ‘gluku’-z’Sweet’), ..

Wich come to kid <=>gr./lat.:hed,hedus= sweet                                                           FromANISTORITON Journal of History, Archaeology, ArtHistory: Viewpoints http://www.a                                                                                              One of the faces reads: Pame-ni po-lo 100 The foals (polo(i)) for this year (pameni has the dative ending, but cf. Greek pammenos) Please also note that the …

signs PA Moon > PAMENI, PAMMENOS :”ALL MONTHs=(this) YEAR !! How’s it going? – Pos pai;                                                                             Note                                                                                                                                           Anatolian/hittite has pa/pai :”give”

From                                                                       This is the list of specialized entities whose names the flamen of Ceres recites when he sacrifices to that goddess and to Tellus ( quos inuocat pamen sacrum ceriale faciens Telluri et Cereri ).

See ——————————————————————————————————————————–Signs:  PA3   MOON    ( PA;PAi )

Phaistos – Wikipedia  Phaistos also transliterated as Phaestos, Festos and Latin Phaestus, currently refers to a … After 1955 the place name, 𐀞𐀂𐀵, pa-i-to, interpreted as Phaistos (written in Mycenaean Greek), began to turn up in the Linear B tablets at Knossos,

MINOAN GREEK SOCIETY IN LINEAR A | iurii mosenkis –…/MINOAN_GREEK_SOCIETY_IN_LI…                                … form of Greek ϕάϜος ‘light’ and means ‘the most lighted (*φαϜιστ-ος)1. … Four main palaces of Neopalatial period (KnossosPhaistos, Mallia, and Kato …

PAi, as in PASIPFAI ; PA=PASI =”All” as in Pasitheoi “all gods”                                                      PA/PAi -(whatever Moon name) >? PA/PAiMi-Ni(mene,meinei) =”ALL/LIGHTED MOON” ?? P.S. One would think “all Moon” as Full Moon or as entire phases….

===========================================================================QUADRANT 4

Picture, from


Upper signs,left-one:” bow-arrow”
Cretan Hieroglyphic A,U?; Linear A SI? / TU/ WA ? Linear B,”ZO”?
NO-one match entirely,only “XE=Kse” from Cypriot syllabary
Next right sign “>>
MNo -one sign in Cretan Hiero,,nor in Liniar A/B ! Match only “Pi” from cypriot syllabary, and linear A > :”TI”
The last,downward it is linear A/B “PA”                                   WA    TiTi

PA                                                or Cypriot:    Xe       Pi

Pa                                                                                                                            No mycenaean word xe-Pi,Pi-Pa or that kind.                                                                           This could be the end of my attempt to read this tablet using Mycenaean signs (Cretan Hieroglyphic/Minoan Linear A/B signs).                                                                                           I cannot take some signs from one writing and other on the tablet from another syllabary or writing.                                                                                                                        This could be a good exemple for proving a writing not partain of one supposed writing system (syllabary in our case)                                                               Pro-argument to use (Mr.Vallance Janke, ):                                                                                                      “And I do agree with the theory that Hieroglyphic signs are ultimately ancestral to the Linear sytems. These include not only Linear A, but also its offsrings outside Crete, such as Linear B in mainland Greece, Cypro-Minoan and Linear C on Cyprus.”

But give another chance: Bow-Arrow:Cretan Hieroglyphic sign 048. From:

Related image MitchMarch 12, 2011 at 10:54 AM “The Cretan Hieroglyphic Signs and their Suspected
Linear A Equivalents”

#048, 049 ‘archery’ signs (141) = AB41 / si                                                                                        (me):And >> sign cretan Hieroglyphic sign 018:”ru2(rjiu,lu)  So,

Si             Ru/Rju

 Pa/psa >> Pa:”All

SIRU/SIRJU PA(siteoi-like?)  SIRJU<?>SIRU or SIRJIU<?>SIRU(OSIRIS)?                                                     From the spiritual substratum of bronze age mediterranean & circum pontic …                               “Apart from Siru or Serio, who represents a ‘sun’ god, there is a lunar / solar trinity including Nopina (in later Greek = Nymph or Maiden), who”

From Sacred and the Profane, The – Dictionary definition of Sacred and the ……/sacred-and-profane         “In general the synonyms in the IndoEuropean languages for what the metalanguages imply with their contrast between profane and sacred boil down to a … In Babylonian, kug is translated with ellu (“[ritually] pure, bright, free”), mah with siru (“first-rank, exalted”),”      

From Minoan civilization originated in Anatolia! – History Forum ~ All … › … › Ancient Mediterranean and Europe

In terms of culture, the Hurrians (like their other relatives the Sumerians), believe in the sky diety ANU. … SIRUTE KERAIZO SIRU to destroy

SIRU PA :”Rase/DESTROY ALL” ? Maybe; as smashing all items(idols) used in ritual? Could be.