Tartaria tablets, advanced research. (Latest). Answers to allmost possible questions.

October 31, 2019

Tartaria tablets, latest advanced research. Answers to allmost possible questions.

Picture,from https://www.descopera.ro/stiinta/3343280-misterele-tablitelor-de-la-tartaria

Map from https://cersipamantromanesc.wordpress.com/2014/07/30/adevarata-istorie-a-descendentei-noastre/

Image result for tartaria alba harta Tartaria village, Alba County

Only three important, crucial issues have been  in the attention of researchers, during decades since discovery of the tablets in ’61, until today.

N.Vlassa , chief in charge at the archaeological diggings. supposed discoverer .               His picture from https://actualdecluj.ro/semnificatia-tablitelor-de-la-tartaria-muzeul-de-istorie-din-cluj-detine-cele-mai-vechi-scrieri-din-istoria-civilizatiei/

Image result for nicolae vlassa arheologul

Image result for tartaria tablets arheologie.ulbsibiu.ro Tartaria groapa Luncii from arheologie.ulbsibiu.ro

But also the same questions still surrounded by mistery, and interesting the audience at the highest level:                                                                                                                            1.real age  2. Genuine?  3. Whether or not carry a form of writing.                                       The answers to these questions will be, each of them detailed and almost dissected, and  have been the result of more than 10 years of dedicated research. Into the field of birth and followed by the evolution of writing in the world, various world writing systems, and then the comparative study customized and applied to Tartaria tablets (Tartaria tablets=TT)

1. Are TT as old as spoken/rumors ?

Various researchers have advanced different ages.There is no convergence of opinions. Their discoverer, N.Vlassa told of about 2.700 B.C. Then others went up to 5.300 B.C. (e.g. M.Merlini).                                                                                                                                             The age of 5.300 BC after me is completely out of  question, and the 2.400-2.700 BC is the maximum extreme theoretical! limit from which I can discuss after my humble opinion. I Will explain the reasons why even this latter age is not possible.

2.What are the arguments of most researchers for these TT ages (after me unrealistic)?

For 5,300 BC :                                                                                                                                          – the alleged finding of the tablets in the layer corresponding to the civilization of Vinca and the age same as of the bones (5,300 BC/C14) assumed to be found in the immediate vicinity. Image, from https://www.thelivingmoon.com/46ats_members/Lisa2012/03files/Tartaria_Tablets.html

Image result for tartaria bones Tartaria Groapa Luncii, female bones dated 5.300 B.C.

At present, very few researchers are still claiming such an old age.                                     For 2400-2700 BC :                                                                                                                               – possible fallen down from above strata, so origin from newer layers (and hence the membership of artefacts to crops such as Cotofeni? Baden? Petresti?) and                          – related assessments of some artifacts found in the immediate proximity of TT, as pertaining to later cultures than Vinca A-C, as well as                                                                   – judgments and comparisons generally related to the time of appearance, and the evolution of writing in the world.

From https://alba24.ro/autenticitatea-tablitelor-cu-semne-pictografice-de-la-tartaria-enigma-pentru-unii-istorici-ce-spune-arheologul-horia-ciugudean-care-in-1989-a-participat-la-sapaturi-400800.html  :

Image result for tartaria groapa luncii Artefacts found alegedly with the tablets,

Image, from  https://fashiondocbox.com/90885882-Jewelry/Tartaria-and-the-sacred-tablets.html

Image result for  tartaria groapa luncii Tartaria-Groapa Luncii (the very site where tablets were found)

3.Were TT in that layer (VINCA) ? Were the tablets near the bones?

It is not known for sure;
“there are no photos or sketches, blueprints of the exact location of each artifact, and much more,

  • – Not known who were present/ all the persons close to the moment of discovery,        – where exactly were every of them, or walked in the ritual complex, when and how much time some missed (eg. Vlassa some hours)                                                           – Who was the very person who first saw or found TT                                                      – In fact who first touched them is not known.                                                                   – When, who gathered, packed the artefacts and transported to museum , when and to whom were given, where in the museum were put ?

In conclusion, there are no witnesses and no hard evidence of where exactly where every artefact/item including TT were placed or were found in the entire religious complex.                                                                                                                                               AS A RESULT, I HAVE ANY ASSISTANCE AND CANNOT RELY ON ANY EVIDENCE REGARDING THE PLACE AND MOMENT OF DISCOVERY, AND THE SAME ON ESTIMATED AGE, REMAINING FOR ME THE SINGLE OPTION, THAT OF ANALISING THE SIGNS !

4.  There is available a scientific method of measuring their age exactly?

Their Age cannot be determined with any of the current methods. Worse not anymore, as the tablets have been baked in an owen (who has decided at an unknown temperature is not known) apparent, immediately after discovery, because they seemed to be friable.                                                                                                                                       (Not to be enough, before  chemical structure was changed , as were impregnated with nitrolack !)

5.Could be TT genuine  sumerian or how much could be related to the early stage of the sumerian handwriting?

There are not a sumerian, it is absolutely certain.                                                                          Top researchers in the proto-writing field said that although the signs are similar to the sumerian proto-cuneiform (proto-writing stage), the signs and writing are not authentic/genuine sumerian.                                                                                                              These researchers only mentioned these similarities and differencies in the passage and in a superficial way.                                                                                                                              I went into more detail and explained that the signs are similar in shape reflected only as blueprints, schematic way/sketch the proto-sumerian signs, but they have no their counterpart concrete shape.                                                                                                       Researchers shows shortcomings, they have                                                                                 – not identified all the signs, and they have                                                                                      – misidentified others. (Ex A. Vaiman, R.Kolev and others).                                                                                                                                                                                                                              The resemblance is due to the filogenesis of the writing in general. That is, the connection and the ultimate sumerian origin and transmission of the signs and in fact of many writing systems used in the Near East and in the Aegean area. Such a filiation, apart from the one noted by researchers I.Papakitsos and G. Kenanidis (relative to the Aegean proto-linear writing) is supported and explained by me and in addition and sometimes more detailed. However, I did not think of some assyrologists and specialists in sumerian proto-writing/proto-cuneiform (e.g. Falkenstein, A. Vaiman, R.Kolev) to approach a sumerian interpretation as long as they claim that signs are not proper/really sumerian?

From The Origins of Writing as a Problem of Historical Epistemology                 Peter Damerow https://cdli.ucla.edu/pubs/cdlj/2006/cdlj2006_001.html


<<…. early writing systems seems to indicate, as Ignaz Gelb has pointed out in his famous Study of Writing (Gelb 1952: 212-220), that the idea spread in various directions at the beginning of the 3rd millennium BC from centers in Mesopotamia and Egypt. Proto-Elamite writing occurs only a short time after proto-cuneiform. It was used for a short period in vast areas of the Iranian plateau. In the second half of the 3rd millennium BC, writing is attested as far to the north as Ebla in Syria and to the east as the Indus culture in modern Pakistan. Minoan writing starts at Crete around the turn of the 3rd to the 2nd millennium BC. At that time, cuneiform writing is also attested further north in the regions of Anatolia.>>

                                                                                                                                                                   6. What examples could be given  to support the fact that TT are not genuine sumerian ones ?

  • Always the sumerian signs/marks for numbers (with the apparent  D-letter shape) in the Sumer were made by imprinting, but ours are made by tracing/scratching.
  • Sumerian numbers : from https://sites.utexas.edu/dsb/tokens/the-evolution-of-writing/
  • Image result for sumerian 3.200 proto writing numbers (Fig. 2) Impressed tablet featuring an account of grain, from Godin Tepe, Iran (Courtesy Dr. T. Cuyler Young, Royal Ontario Museum, Toronto)
  • Image result for proto-cuneiform Proto-cuneiform tablet (W 9578,g) from Uruk IV, 3350-3200 BC …
  • Only D-shaped proto-cuneiform sumerian NINDA/”bread” sign was traced/scraped. (on the right).                                                                                          Image from https://ro.pinterest.com/pin/488640628318570008/?lp=true
  • Image result for proto-cuneiform school tabletImage result for borger ud.unug proto-cuneiform
  •                                                                                                                                                     (We have on TT first D-sign on round TT very close to it, but not the same.            Image from http://aplaceofbrightness.blogspot.com/2008/11/moonlight-in-romania-tartaria-tablets_21.html&nbsp;                        
  • Image result for living moon tartaria)
  • Very many signs though reflecting by general way the shape of the sumerian proto-cuneiform ones, in fact their concrete and exact shape is much more like those that were later used in the Anatolian, Aegean (and even many in the Mediterranean) writings. As well as in the Near East (canaanite, phoenician).                 
  • IT IS A FACT THAT WAS NOT NOTICED NOt A WORD, BY ANY SCIENTIST, (ONLY BY ME) THAT:                                                                                                                                      – MANY SIGNS ON THE ROUND TABLET IS REFLECTING AN EVOLUTION, (CHANGED SHAPES THAN PROTO-CUNEIFORM), REFLECTING A LATER PERIOD OF TIME                                                                                                                                      One example:    Image result for moonlight tartaria     picture from  http://aplaceofbrightness.blogspot.com/2008/11/moonlight-in-romania-tartaria-tablets_21.html&nbsp;                                                                                                                       The H-like sign (on the round tablet with 3 horizontal bars) looks much more like, and even is exactly the same as the folowing:                                                                          – the Heth sign from canaanite writing/1.500-1.200 BC,                                                    – the Pa3 sign from the Aegean/2.000-1.500 BC,                                                                     – the archaic ETA/Heta sign from the archaic Greek/ 800-500BC (apparent crooked-looking due of offset vertical bars). But the sign is actually further present throughout  Mediterranean. Only one sign is identical to that of proto-cuneiform, the sign +++++++, the sumerian ‘As’ and another is approaching (the 1-st D), the sumeria sign “Sur“.

The Sumerians, during any period, used a uniform writing corresponding to the time during which the scribe was living. They did not use pictograms and ideographic signs on separate tablets at/in a given time.

7. The shape of clay TT is very important?

I don’t think it is. Image from https://www2.uned.es/geo-1-historia-antigua-universal/ESCRITURAS_ANTIGUA/Escrituras_3__antiguas_BALKAN_DANUBE-SCRIPT.htm

 Clay disc from Vinca, Serbia

Otherwise I know more examples  round tablets.                                                                  Sumerian star map, from                                                                                 https://curiosmos.com/this-5500-year-old-sumerian-star-map-recorded-the-impact-of-a-massive-asteroid/

Image result for sumerian star chart

and none sumerian ones with a hole. Then the Cretan tablets with the hole, but not perfectly round-shaped.

 Linear Script A/ http://arthistoryresources.net/greek-art-archaeology-2016/minoan-outline.html , and round ball:

 Cypro-Minoan clay ball in Louvre, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cypro-Minoan_syllabary

Folowing Karanovo tablet http://institutet-science.com/sakralna-plochica-karanovo/?lang=en

Image result for karanovo tablet

Another round tablet & holes, from Tartaria : https://adevarul.ro/locale/alba-iulia/tablita-secreta-tartaria-contine-obiectul-arheologic-descoperit-2014-semnele-erau-ascunse-privitorilor-1_57fcfa425ab6550cb876646f/index.html

Image result for tartaria tablet

Then the discussion about how flat or swelling/bulged are some or others do not see to be much productive.

 8. Are the TT genuine ?

YES. (More so yes than no! )                                                                                                                ( partly No, because it does not seem to be the result of a one’s intention to communicate by writing something connected with a particular economic or religious necessity.)

Yes, because the one who wrote them didn’t intended to fool somebody and whatever intented (we do not know what), the scribe was fair intended. It seems he wanted rather to practice the evolution of  writing or to show someone the same evolution and basic principles of writing.                                                                                                                     Maybe at the best succeded to write a short ritualic formula or short written economical token.

9. If the “writer” intended to show the evolution and writing principles, could be like/kind ofsumerian-like school scribal tablets ?

Definitely no. Because school scribal tablets:                                                                                  – put youngsters to copy teacher’s texts,                                                                                         – to divide tablets in writing sectors, and                                                                                    – were quite repetitive in content, as containing lexical lists, eg. of things, ocupations, etc.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         From The tablet House: a scribal school in old Babylonian Nippur Eleanor Robson https://www.cairn.info/revue-d-assyriologie-2001-1-page-39.htm#

  • Types of school scribe, writing-learning tablets:

Table 1

Table 3 The order of the elementary curriculum in House F[20]
Table 3
tableau im13

10. What is the point, or why there are 3 tablets together?

The question can be asked because if you have something to say, you write everything on a tablet and  not spreading the message in three different places. Or at least write using the same writing system.                                                                                                 The answer is that he wanted to show the evolution of the writing from icons to ideograms, and even to some extent to syllables and letters.                                          We have                                                                                                                                                   – a rectangular (without hole) tablet with icons.                                                                            – another rectangular tablet (with hole) with ideograms.(These ideograms/logograms may have in the extreme the function of syllabograms)                                                         – a Round tablet (with hole) to all appearances shows the Aegean syllabograms, or even letters (Anatolian/archaic Greek).                                                                                              (except for 2 complex rituallic? marks/ideograms present in the right-hand lower quarter).

11. Are there any cases in the world of using by the same scribe of two or three writing systems?

Only exceptionally, two, e.g. the Roseta stone written with Egyptian hierogliphs and Greek letters, but there is no known case in which 3 writing systems appear (as in our case) and not with systems whose temporal spread  covers 2000-3000 years!      (Sumerian proto-cuneiform 3.300BC, Cretan  Hierogliphic 2,000 BC, linear A/B 1500 BC, Greek archaic writing 800-300BC) >> time span 3.000 years !

12. Is it claimed that the (by somewhat majority) the assumption  that the signs were used at religious ceremonies?

Although researchers make reference some for economic use and others for religious, none of them fully supports or demonstrate any of the alternatives. In other words, leave open the way for any interpretation (including a mixed one !?)
The scales is serious inclining for yes.                                                                                      (only slightly Not, since                                                                                                                        – the tablets contain only 2 complex ideograms (in the round of the right-bottom quarter) that could play a role in religious ceremonies,  otherwise all signs were used in different areas by different civilizations for true writing !                                                                           – many researchers noticed possible number marks, so economical purpose)                                Mainly Yes, since the round plate contains in the right-hand-bottom quarter 2 complex ideograms and in addition the rectangular one with the hole contains many ideograms/logograms, all of which are applicable to religious rites.                               And again, yes, as  it is possible that ONLY the upper half of the round tablet  contain a written/verbal/ritualic formula for use in such ceremonies. This may be, or sure it is the explanation, that this portion was usually hidden from the direct view of the passers-by, being covered by the rectangular one.

13. What about  scribe’s training on writing?

Most researchers claim that he was almost illiterated. I support the same idea. It seems that in general the tablets were covered with many signs from different writing systems and the only section where the scribe has managed to write is the upper half of the round tablet. Probably he was aware of this fact from the very beginning!                       (!…iliterated, but how happened he had the ability and the science to display signs used in large spatial and temporal expansion !)                                                                                          Having access to a large sign library, and an ordered, organized character of the signs on 3 different tablets,                                                                                                                                – Now, I am seeing the scribe different as in the past time, not as a person close to illiterate but maybe a priest(ess) ?, or rather kind of Berossus of his time !

14.How much new in extreme, could be the tablets ?

Theoretically and practically it could reach the very period of  archaic Greek writing 800-300 BC or that of the etheocretan wich goes/rich to our era/AC. 

From Wikimedia Commons,File:CretanEpichoricAlphabets.png

File:CretanEpichoricAlphabets.pngBut it is excluded to be newer from the early Middle Ages due to certain aging traces. The possibility of a inscription of recent date does not exceed that of being written, by a catholic teacher-priest !!!, (… who had access to old writings and documents.)                          The tablets are shown as a collection of signs, apparently scattered from different areas and periods of time, but nevertheless ordered and somehow divided into three major  evolution of writing categories.                                                                                                  Who could have done this? It is all easier when we are approaching modern times ? where the possibility of access to signs used in the past is increasing.

15. The signs on the tablets belong to or are placed in a specific, particular writing in the world?

No! In fact my entire work mainly includes the testing of the various writing systems. Unfortunately no tablet is matching entirely with one writing. But no chance for all 3 tablets simultaneously ! The greatest closeness, that is, the largest number of signs can be found in the Sumerian proto-cuneiform and almost equal to the letters of the Anatolian writings.(the signs are found in the various Anatolian writings, the top being the carian writing/alphabets).

From Alphabets of Asia Minor https://tied.verbix.com/project/script/asiam.html

Then follows a series of Mediteranean writings, in the top  being Aegean  writings.               For these reasons, the writing and of course the tablets seem to have a subsequent age newer  of 2.400 BC. (See also Cretan hierogglyphic 2200-2000 BC ,linear A, 1800-1500 BC). None of the tablets can be read using a specific writing for each/no match. Much impossible to read/read using a single  writing system for all three !

16. Strictly on sign appreciation What age could be given to the  the signs ?

Although many signs and to a large extent only “look-like” the sumerian ones reflecting only by far their shape, in the general signs show to be much more recent (new). Unfortunately, a few (really few)  have not been used in the concrete form present on tablets absolutely no in the world before 1,200-1,500 BC !(e.g. sign D ; …oops present in Indus/Harappa writing)

From https://sites.google.com/site/collesseum/qeiyafa-ostracon-2

                                                              Khirbet Qeiyafa ostracon (1.000 B.C. ?)

17. The tablets belong to  Danube, Old Europe, or a Daco-Thracian civilisations ?

No, the Danube civilization/The Old Europe has come close, but it hasn’t even reached the stage of the proto-writing. cause was not a highly socially stratified society in this area, and there were no mach attraction or dedication to writing. In fact, the  tablets are singletones,  absolute unique. The tablets of Gradeshnita, Karanovo, Dispilio belong to other cultures and other phases of writing evolution (proto-writing).                     Regarding Cris-starcevo and Vinca Civilisations:

From Ancient DNA from South-East Europe Reveals Different Events during Early and Middle Neolithic Influencing the European Genetic Heritage https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0128810

“Firstly, archaeological data show that the Neolithic expansion from Anatolia was not a single event but was represented by several waves of migrants [24]. In this respect the Proto-Sesklo culture in Greece, from which directly Starčevo-Criş in the North Balkans and indirectly LBK in Central Europe originate [2526] represents only the first great wave of Neolithisation of Europe [27]. A later great wave of migration from North-West Anatolia led to important cultures of South-Eastern Europe such as Vinča and Boian cultures [28].                                                                                                                               …………..The first Neolithic inhabitants of Europe are described archeologically as belonging to the Aegean Early Neolithic cultures [27], from which the bearers of both the Starčevo-Criş-Körös complex in Serbia, Romania and Hungary [2837] and the Linear Pottery culture in Central Europe (LBK) [21] emerged.                                                          …………These data are in line with the idea of a common origin of the LBK and Starčevo-Criş cultures from the Aegean Neolithic cultures of Northern Greece/Thessaly, the first Neolithic complex in Europe [24].                                                                                     ……………..Fernandez E, Perez-Perez A, Gamba C, Prats E, Cuesta P, Anfruns J, et al. (2014) Ancient DNA Analysis of 8000 B.C Near Eastern Farmers supports an Early Neolithic Pioneer Maritime colonization of Mainland Europe through Cyprus and the Aegean Islans. “

18. Was the scribe a native of Tartaria ?

Definitely not ! The local community did not know the writing. The tablets were inscribed by an individual of different origin. From Anatolia and possibly from the Egeana area (Crete ?), or if you want of proto-Greek origin. Note that Anatolia is close, bordering  the Aegean, Syrian and Danube areas; (there are also indications of the presence of Anatolian craftsmen in the area of Vinca). TT could, however, be effectively inscribed by that person in his home-place or in extreme even in Tartaria.

19. What made for living the scribe; what could be his occupation/profession  ?

Others opinion is the same as mine, could be an prospector, craftsmen but much sure tradesman.

20.From the perspective of the evolution and existence of all writing systems in the world, which is the location occupied by TT signs ?

Here I have to say that because of the great similarity of the signs with the sumerian proto-cuneiform shapes, as well as the written signs used in the Aegean and Anatolia, to a large extent, it was possible and relatively easy interpretation of TT using each or any of these above writings This shows on the one hand the origin of the writing, but also the spread of the writing in space and time. The scribe and signs were coming  from somewhere in the space delimited by these civilizations.

From Writing in Neolithic Europe; an Aegean origin?  https://novoscriptorium.com/2019/09/28/writing-in-neolithic-europe-an-aegean-origin/

“For many years the earliest writing was assumed to have originated in Uruk, in Sumeria, Mesopotamia c. 3100 BC. Evidence from Egypt has now dated writing to c. 3400-3200 BC, while evidence from the Indus Valley suggests a date of 3500 BC for the development of writing there.  In the 1980s, a system of writing was noticed in the Balkans of the Final Neolithic period. This was identified as “pre-writing” by Shan Winn (1981) and Emilia Masson (1984) who considered whether this constituted a Vinča “script.” They each concluded that the Vinča signs represented a “precursor” to writing.


…   The Neolithic expansion, as is generally accepted in our time, started from the Aegean towards the North and not the opposite (of course, there also exists the controversial issue of some supposed initial migrations from Anatolia-Near East which, as we have presented with the help of officially published material, do not seem to be the case. It is more likely that domesticated seeds and animals were adopted by the Aegeans, through Trade, from the East rather than that the Aegeans were…substituted by some ‘ghost’ Eastern population that does not at all culturally-archaeologically appear in the Aegean or Southeastern Europe during the Neolithic). Therefore we must derive that Writing expanded from the Aegean to the North and not the opposite as some researchers have suggested in the past.”


21. The tablets could carry real script /true writing ?

 General opinion of scientists and scholars specialised in proto-writing is pointing for NO. Cause they realised that the signs are similar to those used in proto-writing, namely the proto-cuneiform signs. The use of proto-cuneiform signs is conducting only and unique to proto-writing ! And because almost all the signs are similar to those proto-sumerian it is about sumerian proto-writing.

Scientists also noticed that part of the signs are not identical in shape with those sumerian-ones, but probably thought that are a kind of variant, local adaptation, without explaining or detailing where or how this could happened. Thus begining with a basically “sumerian interpretation” their’s are in general close one to another and also close to mine.  Some told of economical tablets, seeing on the upper-right part of the round tablet only cereals and numbers.                                                                                                  But if taking as true that this section had ezoteric content and was intentionally hidden, it is cristal-clear that nobody was hiding numbers ! So numbers or ezoteric content, only one out of twoo !                                                                                                       But others, were pointing to an religious content, and not few saw ideograms wich not only could be used in religious rituals but in fact were practically used as such on a larger scale. In reality, the signs could be used for both purposes. In and describing an offering ritual ( cereals/bread and animals/goats). What I noticed myself that those ideograms are somehow similar to those used in ancient Aegean writings, (Cretan hierogliphic and Linear A), with the  result close interpretation. (even if  the signs are much close to those sumerian ones. )                                                                                    Exemple of closeness/similarities of Aegean signs to those sumerian ones:                                                              

Semn sumerian    Semn Egeean          Semnificatie                                                                             As,Se                          Te                          Cereale                                                                                  Gu,Gud                      Mu                           taur                                                                               Amar                        (a)Ma                     vitel/zeita-Mama                                                                 An                              ?                          zeu,cer                                                                                       Bad                            Da(Sa?)                        sacrificat,mort/                                                                 Ab /Zag/Ga’ar             Labrys               templu,stralucire/divin                                                      Ud                              capra,ied                         capra,ied                                                           Dara                                -”                                    -“-                                                               Ararma                      Asasara                          zeitate astrala?                                                         Gar                                   D                              masura volum cereale

From  https://enigmatica.ro/placutele-de-la-tartaria/

Image result for tablitele tartaria

From https://cdli.ucla.edu/pubs/cdlj/2015/cdlj2015_001.html&nbsp;                                                          BAD: …it bears the meaning “sacrificed,” or in the case of humans, simply “dead.”

Image result for damerow proto-cuneiform

From https://brill.com/view/book/9789004352223/BP000008.xml (see no.7, UD/goat)

Image result for goat proto-cuneiform

Folowing signs, from  https://cdli.ucla.edu/tools/SignLists/protocuneiform/archsigns.html

Ab Amar An Ararma As Sze/Se Ud5 Zag~a Zag~c Dara~3d Ga’ar~b1 Sur  Gar


All interpretations, of scientists and mine are sending to, are in close touch with an -religious ritual !  !

22. But if you ask me of an possible true writing ?

I say, I hope yes, on the round table, the top half, although we have there a kind of “impossible” combination of signs (“Doo/DDoc” sequence) and apparently no way out. However, in that half of the round tablet, we could have the archaic Greek letters:

Image result for tablitele tartaria pic from http://www.ziare.com/cultura/documentar/tablitele-de-la-tartaria-cea-mai-veche-scriere-a-lumii-descoperita-in-romania-1090967

To the left: Eta/Heta Rho/D?                                                                                                            And to the right:    Doo, DDoc?/ Dtwo?/RRoo, Roc?

What could be written, what possible texts?

It seems that we will never be able to have absolute certainty anymore, of any message or text. By one side                                                                                                              – we don’t know the language used, and by the other side                                                           – because there can be more possibilities of letters and not know for sure whether the P/D signs actually are for D or R letters ; and also,                                                                      – a concrete number of letters (even they are few !) may lead to a relatively large number of combinations of n as many as m)

Can one make suppositions at least?

Yes, there would be a set of proposals to be considered, for example:

Here Roc Roc Albanian here Rrok= time grab, understand

HeRos DiBoc=DiVos Greek Lord/master Zeu (use in religious ritual?)

EDE DiDou Greek “now give!”/”give to eat!” (This proposal is of some interest, since the root of the ED is present in both food-related words (e.g. EDTA) and in that of kid Ed.educs. We have one or more kids on the pictGraphics? So through the icon of the iedului can suggest the word Ed,Ede !: Mananca!/kid, iedule)

HeDe Didou Greek now,already give! (do you give it?; religious ritual?)

! Caution, *hed is the root Proto Indo-Europeana for ‘mananca’!

HRist(s) DDoc Latin “of the doctrine of christiana”

Hero, ERO DDoc (Decreto Doctor) Latin will be a doctor (Lat.”Professor”) in the theological doctrine)


23. Again. Why 3 tablets, each with different “writing”, and how to explain this (only the appearance !) are there signs?

In fact, it is not a pile of signs. It Is the fruit of a conscious and deliberate effort. Remember, as for me, who have come to keep in mind hundreds of signs from each writing system, it would not necessarily be easy for me. If I intend to show to a student or any reader the main steps in the appearance and evolution of  writing, maybe I would do much the same.

On a tablet I would show pure icons/pictographs, as the ones on the pictographic tablet. I would choose about the same kind of basic signs, which almost identical meaning in the Sumerian proto-cuneiform as with those of cretan hyierogliphic  and Linear A.               Cereal and goat icons. There is also an absolute unclear sign , possible ghost, man, gods !?                                                                                                                                                            On the second (like rectangular tablet with hole), I would figure sumerian ideograms that are almost entirely and close shape found in the Aegean syllabograms .                                                           Signs: Cereals, Gods, labriys, Gods, Taurus).

 picture from https://www.descopera.org/tablitele-de-la-tartaria/

On the third (round tablet) I would figure the pure phonetic writing (but not necessarily alphabetic!).Those signs have corespondence in sounds . As summerian ideograms , Aegeene syllabograms, and even  to Greek and Anatolian letter wich has every of them coresponding phonemes/sounds.


On the pictographic tablet:                                                                                                                  the grain/cereal Sumerian icon, similar to the Cretan sign for cereals. And then the common icon for the goat.

On rectangular tablet with hole, 3 examples:                                                                                  1. The sumerian sign “Se” <> the linear A sign  “Te“, cereal, grain.                                                2. Then the sign ‘Animal head with long ears’:                                                                                 the “AMAR” sumerian /calf and Cretan Hierogliphic /linear A “Mu”/Bull , linear B “Ma“/sign of Mother Goddess.                                                                                                                         3. And the sign of the Orion constellation, the “Zag“/ the shine of metal, linear “Labrys” sign of the linear A divine power.

-On the round plate, only 2 examples:                                                                                                 1. The H-sign with 3 bars is the sumerian “Ku“, linear A “Pa3″,canaanit “Heth” and archaic Greek  “Heta/Eta“, old Latin “H“.
2. Sign (as with # but only with 1 vertical bar):sumerian “Pa” and linear A “Pa” (later “Z” in many writings)

I don’t know why, also on the round plate, the right-bottom quarter, two complex ideograms appear, Picture from http://aplaceofbrightness.blogspot.com/2008/11/moonlight-in-romania-tartaria-tablets_21.html

e.g. one (on the right) is like the temple of solar gods Shamash/ 

Proto-cuneiform sign UD.UNUG:”sun -inner temple”

Image result for borger ud.unug proto-cuneiform

the sign of the punic Goddess Tanit, astral Goddess as Ishtar=the sign of the minoan astral Goddess Asasara.

From https://www.ancient-origins.net/ancient-places-africa/baal-hammon-and-tanit-0012136&nbsp;                                                                                                                      Symbol of Tanit, the consort to the king of the Punic pantheon. (mrholle / CC BY-SA 2.0) Punic Goddess Tanit

WHEN THE TOPIC IS THE DEVELOPEMENT OF WRITING, WIKIPEDIA COMES ALSO (as TT scribe have done and I also would do) WITH 3 MAIN STAGES:                                                                                                                       Din https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_writing

A conventional “proto-writing to true writing” system follows a general series of developmental stages:

  • Picture writing system: glyphs (simplified pictures) directly represent objects and concepts. In connection with this, the following substages may be distinguished:
    • Mnemonic: glyphs primarily as a reminder;
    • Pictographic: glyphs directly represent an object or a concept
    • Ideographic: graphemes are abstract symbols that directly represent an idea or concept.
  • Transitional system: graphemes refer not only to the object or idea that it represents but to its name as well.
  • Phonetic system: graphemes refer to sounds or spoken symbols, and the form of the grapheme is not related to its meanings.                                                                         ———————————————————-

24. What was aiming at, or real purpose of the tablets ?

If, after a sustained and tenacious effort, I managed, succeed to have in my little finger or mind, (… where you want), thousands of signs grouped into different writing systems; (not discuss my ability or expertise compared with others, though I want such a challenge). If I could make a collection of signs in this way, that is grouped on the main types of writing folowing the course of time, with all the possibilities of 20th century documentaries at my disposal, probably the result will be close to those tablets.

Who, for God’s sake, from where and how long, does not discuss with what purpose, made a collection of ordered signs and divided into three major groups of historical evolution ? Note, signs with an extension of their use on a 2.500- years  time-span ( ~2.500-500 ECB)?


25.I put under scrutiny an important question and subject to follow; I am looking forward to your opinions with great interest.

Remember, the tablets are real an material and  not coming from somewhere from the virtual reality, and therefore do not hold as copies of others, so there are original, they were made by someone, though, and in this way original and not counterfeit, fakes. 

 Although they have taken note of the similarities between the signs on the TT and those in the sumerian, they have limited themselves to referring quickly and perhaps somewhat superficial only to a few aspects.                                                                             

What completely escaped my understanding is that none of them noticed and did not refer to the fact that the somewhat grouped signs, as if somebody divided them into three categories of historical evolution ??.

For example, a researcher with dozens of publications and books, who has literally exhausted attacking the topic TT from the perspective of all interdisciplinary branches (archeology, history, culture, seminary, etc.) starting from the Neolithic, (if not near the mesolithic) these essential aspects escaped him. Namely the similarities with the Levantine, Aegean, Anatolian and Mediterranean civilizations writings, and maybe worse, not noticed this kind of display of seemingly arranged signs in historical, in temporal evolution, and I am referring here to Mr Marco Merlini                                                                                                                            Image result for tartaria tablets                                                                  Mr. Marco Merlini, from http://www.prehistory.it&nbsp;                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            (and mentioning his master, Prof. Gheorghe Lazarovici)

26. Possible explanation  ?

This spark-idea is mine, but not a recent-one, and could explain TT purpose and who wrote and/or used them . As to be brought at an unknown time and unknown religion by kind of missionary. The round tablet could have written on upper half,                                                                                                                                                                                               Pics from http://aplaceofbrightness.blogspot.com/2008/11/moonlight-in-romania-tartaria-tablets_21.html

an ritualic formula, as out of the signs HP Di b o c , some could be:


latin:   HeRus  DeiVOS =    -“-      -“-

Note.                                                                                                                                                         “If” word God  is written, then like kind of Tetragrammaton m not to be pronounced, hidden like the name of YHWEH.(also have here 4 letters !)                                                   Was natural to be hidden from the view of passers-by, especially at the begining of christianism when followers were chased, ??

or a religious christian-like one ( “Our Father” pray: give us our daily bread

greek: HeDe/EDE !  DiDOS/DIDOU ! :Allready,this here,now/GIVE EAT !

latin:  ED/EDE   DeDou(i)=/DeDUI    : Kid-goat/EAT     GIVE!

From ETRUSCANS, VENETI and SLOVENIANS: A Genetic … http://www.korenine.si › zborniki › zbornik05 › belchevsky_rea                                                                                                           The barbarians were the ancient Europeans, non-Greeks, whose speech was not understood by the Greeks. ….. divos > dibos > qibos > qeios > qeos.

From https://www.etymonline.com › word
deva | Origin and meaning of deva by Online Etymology Dictionary
… cognate with Greek dios “divine” and Zeus, and Latin deus “god” (Old Latin deivos), from PIE root *dyeu- “to shine,” in derivatives “sky,

From https://linearbknossosmycenae.com/tag/ionic-greek/&nbsp; by Richard Vallance Janke


(in pictographic tablet we have an kid-goat and something totally unclear, as a human silhuette with hands forward as giving)

…. or you will wonder what other possible formula.                                                                   The presence of the other signs on TT, which apparently do not contain writing, explain it to me by the intention of creating a framework, appearance, but also the feeling and atmosphere of continuity and the transmission of knowledge and religious concepts of a eternal nature, originating in the very distant past.                                                                 The fact that all the signs on TT were used in a place, time or another for writing, raises my suspicions to me. As if that person had access to sources such as the library from Alexandria or the Vatican?.In fact, I shouldn’t be so much, as the priests really had access to such sources and were among the main propagators of culture in general.






T sütunları ve H/I sembolleri

October 23, 2021

Daha önceki gönderilerde T şeklindeki sütunların ilahi, kutsal semboller olduğuna dair somut kanıtlar vermiştim. Sütunlar tapınaklardır, aslında Yaşam Ruhu'nun yaşadığı evlerdir. T şekli Sümer proto-çivi yazısı işareti Ben ise ve karmaşık bir anlama sahipse: "ilahi güçler - ilahi karar - (ilahi) arı - ayin - yaşama iradesi", çünkü Göbekli Tepe'nin insanları da karmaşık bir anlama sahipti, ancak esas olarak "Yaşam Ruhu". "Ray Urbaniak, "H" sembolünü çift T şekli olarak yorumluyor. ... Ayrıca Tau'nun yarısının manevi alemde olduğunu da söylüyor." . Daha sonra Urbaniak'tan sonra, H'nin iki T'den oluştuğunu vurgulasaydım, H'nin ve I'nin işaretlerinin aynı zamanda iki T'den oluştuğunu, yine iki Sümer proto-çivi yazılı Me işaretinden oluştuğunu bulan tek kişi bendim!  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Me_(mythology)                     https://www.researchgate.net › 3305...
Paradoxes of the Idea of Progress and Cultural ... - ResearchGate
С. 150-174 [Yemelianov V.V. On the Original Meaning of Sumerian ME (Images of ... [Emelyanov V.V. An Answer to the Paper by I.A.   《me:"will to live"》                              "Me", "ilahi güçler = yaşam ruhu" gibi, H ve I'in çok karmaşık semboller olduğunu, yaşam veren İlahi Kozmik Güçlerin sembolleri olduğunu ileri sürdüm.                   Eğer Özgür Barış Etli : "..Yani gizemli "me" sembolünün "Cennet (Gökyüzü) - Dünya bağlantısı: yani hayat var olabilir" ile ilgili olduğunu söyleyebilirim. Şamanik inanışta Dünya yaşam gücünü, Göbekli Tepe bu nedenle önemli bir yer olarak görülmelidir. "               ÷÷÷÷÷÷                   Barış Etli'ye somut deliller (varsayım değil) ve H/I'nin ilahi güçlerin sembolleri olduğu hipotezim var. Gökyüzü ve Dünyayı birbirine bağlayan                       ÷÷÷÷÷÷÷                                  Yani, H ve I sembolleri de 2xT =Me-Me'dir; Meme (Ur-Meme), Gula'nın şifa veren Tanrıçasıydı.        http://oracc.museum.upenn.edu › gu...
Gula/Ninkarrak (goddess) - Oracc 《Relatively minor goddesses such as Nintinugga, Meme and Baba are also identified with Gula/Ninkarrak.》                     Dolayısıyla H ve ben, Onun sembolleri veya onunki gibi ilahi/iyileştirici güçlere sahip şaman sembollerinin ilahi güçleri olabilirdik.

Etimologie moț (motz)

October 8, 2021

Poza, din http://www.romanianmuseum.com/Romania/RomaniaEthnoARDEALvidra.htm

Am gasit o serie de propuneri, una mai nastrusnica ca alta. Par mai degraba neserioase si nu prea par sa aiba legatura cu realitatea.Bine ca gasira țop, mai lipsea țoapa. Din http://enciclopediaromaniei.ro/wiki/Mo%C5%A3i 《 O altă enigmă rămasă fără o explicaţie este originea numelui de “moţ”. Cele mai multe explicaţii privind acest nume indică faptul că românii din munte purtau părul strâns în chică (“moţ”), lăsată să cadă de obicei pe umărul drept. Alţi autori consideră că numele vine de la cuvântul latin “motus”, care înseamnă “răzvrătit”, “rebel”, dacă fiind puternica înclinaţie spre libertate a moţilor. Denumirea de “ţop” are cam aceeaşi explicaţie a părului strâns în chică, numai că acest cuvânt ar putea proveni din limba germană (“tzopf” = chică). Austriecii îi numeau pe moţi “tzopfiger wallachische”, adică “valahi cu moţ”. O explicaţie puţin plauzibilă a numelui de “ţop” ar fi aceea că se zice că moţii nu ar şti să danseze, astfel că la auzul muzicii ei “ţopăie” ca ursul. Acest fapt nu e adevărat, moţii ştiind să danseze la fel de bine ca oricine altcineva.》 — Bine ca gasira țop, mai lipsea țoapa. Uite o tampenia maxima: https://ro.m.wikipedia.org › wiki Țara Moților – Wikipedia 《 „Moți” poate fi o deformare a cuvintelor „munți” (romanic) sau „moji” (slav, care înseamnă « bărbați »; a dat și cuvântul „moși”)》

—-Apoi a inceput sa se faca lumina cand am gasit in doua surse, cumva in doua familii lingvistice acelasi inteles: Proto-Basque:moc Meaning: short Bizkaian:motz Gipuzkoan:motz, motx High Navarrese:motz Low Navarrese:motz Salazarese:motz Lapurdian:motz Baztanese:motz Aezkoan:motz Zuberoan:mutz Roncalese:motz Comments:This word is generally believed to be from Romance (cf. Span.mocho’cut off’, Ital.mozzo, etc.), ult. < an unrecorded Latin mutium(REW 5792). From https://www.wordsense.eu/mozza/ mozzare (Italian) Origin & history From mozzo (“cut off, docked”).verb mozzare1.(transitive) to cut off (the head)

2.(transitive) to dock (the tail) From https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/mozzo Italian Etymology 1mozzo first-person singular present indicative of mozzare Etymology 2 From Vulgar Latin *mutius, from Latin mutilus. Cf. also French mousse, Spanish mocho. mozzo(feminine mozza, masculine plural mozzi, feminine plural mozze)1. cut off (head)2.docked (tail)Etymology 3 Borrowed from Spanish mozo, possibly from Latin musteus.mozzo m (plural mozzi 1.(nautical) ship’s boy 2.boy, lad Etymology4 From latin modium.Doublet if moggio mozzo m (plural mozzi)1.hub, nave 2.boss (of a screw) Picture, https://images.app.goo.gl/Jw42pgM3DuJbVkNu7


Ma gandeam ca poate exista legatura cu “scurt” devreme ce moții par a fi scunzi: Din https://cluj24.ro › inaltimea-romanil…
Înălţimea românilor acum 100 de ani. Înalţii moţi erau mici. 1,67 m …

Limba basca nu face parte din nici-o familie lingvistica, dar a existat si exista pe teritoriul celtic. Dar daca motii ar putea avea legatura cu celtii, nu vad cum ar putea sa se exprime depreciativ fata de ei insisi, ca ar fi scurti. Am gasit undeva ca ramurile italica si celtica s-au contopit si astfel s-a format limba latina.Nici nu mai este nevoie sa amintesc ca din latina latina vulgara este de fapt amestecul tuturor limbilor din arealul european si mediteranean din est pana la vest.Mozzo inseamna taietor. Ma gandeam ca majoritatea moților ocupanduse cu taiatul lemnelor, un moț a fost numit de cei din exterior (romani?) “taietor” ..sau “butuc” in sensul de butucanos.

Göbekli Tepe taş sütunlarından Kabe taşına.Göbekli Tepe’de Din.Sonuçlar.

October 7, 2021

  • Dinlerin gelişmesinde Göbekli Tepe paganist aşamadaydı, son aşamada tanrılara tapmaya başlamanın delili olmaya başladı. Gelişme şu sırayla her yerde başarılı oldu: animizm, totemizm, samanizm, paganizm. Animizm, tarih boyunca en eski ve en uzun olanıdır, bazı yönleri günümüzde bile mevcuttur. Totemizm varsa, Göbekli Tepe’de en görünür ve hamile olan animizmdi. Şaşırmamak için, animizm sadece ruha tapınmak ya da yeniden başlamak demek değildir, DOĞAYA İBADETLE İLGİLİDİR. İLAHİ VARLIKLAR ARACILIĞIYLA İLAHİ DOĞA ! (… herhangi bir varlık, tanrılar, ruhlar veya iblisler olabilir) Sütunlar cansız taşlar değildi, insanlar veya antropomorfik tanrılar değildi, avcı-toplayıcılar taşları kişiler olarak kavrarlar. Çünkü taşlar, kişilikleri olan ruhları barındırıyordu. İnsan olmayan varlıklar, ruhlar içlerinde yaşar. Çok daha sonra, bir huwasi taşı bir tanrı için kutsalsa ve genellikle bir tapınakta bulunuyorsa, o zaman bu tür yönler daha önce mevcuttu. Sütunları taş insanlarla eşitlemek için sütunların yalnızca minimal antropomorfik özelliklere sahip olması gerekmez. Aksi takdirde (daha fazlaysa, vurgulayarak) önerilen güç ve manevi karakter azalır! Orada Kutsal Höyükte (Sümer Du-Ku) G.T. insanlar bilgi setlerini şamanlar aracılığıyla İlahi güçlerden (Sümer En-lil, efendi-hayalet) alırlar. Ayrıca daha önce (Sümer benzeri) doğaya tapan bereket şenlikleri tutulurdu. T şeklindeki sütunlar, yaşamla doğrudan ilişkili “arı” ve “yaşama iradesi” olan Sümer proto-çiviyazısı işareti Me ile aynı şekle sahiptir.Ama hayat dolu sütunlardan başlayarak, çeşitli yontulmuş canlı hayvanlar ve Kızılcık heykeli ve Urfa-adamı gibi totem-direkler aracılığıyla, hepsi tanrılarla ilk ilişkide değil, yaşamla yakın bağda ışık saçar.

From Gobekli Tepe stone pillars to Kaaba stone

October 4, 2021

In fact, the topic is animism and sacred stones. Definitions and some exemples throughout history: ANIMISM From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animism 《 Animism (from Latin: anima, ‘breath, spirit, life‘) is the belief that objects, places, and creatures all possess a distinct spiritual essence. … Religious studies scholar Graham Harvey defined animism as the belief “that the world is full of persons, only some of whom are human, and that life is always lived in relationship with others”. … For the Ojibwe encountered by Hallowell, personhood did not require human-likeness, but rather humans were perceived as being like other persons, who for instance included rock persons and bear persons. ….  For the Ojibwe, these persons were each wilful beings who gained meaning and power through their interactions with others; through respectfully interacting with other persons, they themselves learned to “act as a person”. … Various animistic cultures also comprehend stones as persons. Discussing ethnographic work conducted among the Ojibwe, Harvey noted that their society generally conceived of stones as being inanimate, but with two notable exceptions: the stones of the Bell Rocks and those stones which are situated beneath trees struck by lightning, which were understood to have become Thunderers themselves.》

From Types of Religions | Boundless Sociology – Lumen Learning …https://courses.lumenlearning.com › chapter › types-of-… 《Animism is the belief that non-human entities are spiritual beings, either intrinsically or because spirits inhabit them.

From The Vulnerable (Post) Modern Self and the “Greening” of Spiritual Personhood through Life in
the Spirit Mary Frohlich https://www.mdpi.com › <<In a much-discussed essay, anthropologist Irving Hallowell recounts asking an Anishinaabe elder about whether all the stones around them are alive. The elder answered “No, but some of them are.” (Hallowell 1960, p. 24) >>

SACRED STONES From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacred_Stone Religion

  • Baetyl, sacred stones in ancient Asian and European religions
  • Benben, in ancient Egyptian religion
  • Huwasi stone in Hittite religion
  • Omphalos, centre of the world in ancient Greece
  • Lapis Niger (“black stone”) a shrine in the Roman Forum
  • Banalinga, naturally-formed ovoid stones from river-beds in India
  • Religion in pre-Islamic Arabia § Sacred stones, a phenomenon common to Semitic religions
  • Seonangdang in Korea
  • The most original cult forms of the pre-Hittite period, in which Semitic and Indo-European populations mixed, were found in Göbekli Tepe in southern Anatolia and in Çatalhöyük”
The characteristic T-pillars can be recognized as larger-than-life human(-like) sculptures due to a number of specific elements. (Illustration: J. Notroff) https://www.dainst.blog/the-tepe-telegrams/wp-content/uploads/sites/8/2019/03/D1Js5VPWoAA0bxt.jpg-large-1097×1536.jpg
  • eugenrau: Huwasi stone situated in temple (!?) …. as T-pillars situated in Gobekli Tepe temple/ritualic complex. See folowing picture: Hittite orthostat relief from Alacahöyük depicting a king and a queen in front of the altar. The King carries the kingdom sceptre (lituus) in his right hand and extends his left hand forward for worship. 14th century BCE. Museum of Anatolian Civilizations, Ankara (Turkey).
Hittite Orthostat with King and Queen (Illustration) - World History  Encyclopedia
  • From https://worddisk.com › wiki › Hittite… Hittite mythology and religion – Wikipedia | WordDisk … for the Hittites often worshipped their gods through Huwasi stones,

From https://www.cambridge.org › part-i Part I – The Cambridge Companion to Ancient Mediterranean Religions In other cases, inanimate objects or fetishes could stand in for the deity, so the cult image might be a stela (huwasi), a weapon (mountain..”

eugenrau:T-shaped Gobekli Tepe pillars/stelae <visa> HUWASI=hittite STELAE ?

From https://books.google.ro › books Hittite Texts and Greek Religion: Contact, Interaction, and Comparison Ian Rutherford — 2020 · Religion Huwasi is often translated as ‘ stela ‘ , but they may have varied in shape and ..

From https://books.google.ro › books The “Other” Psychology of Julian Jaynes: Ancient Languages, Sacred … Brian J. McVeigh — 2018 · Psychology (NA4) huwasi– grindstone; ritual monument, ritual stone 42. idālawah- to make … lord 45. istanana- a kind of altar 46. iya- to do; to realize;

eugenrau: Sumerian and Hittite festivals were continuing Gobekli Tepe’s people feasts and festivals ? From https://books.google.ro › books The Oxford Illustrated History of the Holy Land Robert G. Hoyland, H. G. M. Williamson — 2018 · History 《 The nearly contemporary West Semitic ceremonial texts from Emar, on the Euphrates, as well as texts describing the huwasi festival

From https://books.google.ro › books Time at Emar: The Cultic Calendar and the Rituals from the … Daniel E. Fleming — 2000 · Religion Archi concludes that the fundamental celebration of the spring festivals consisted of procession to a huwasi stone and offering that —————– Excerpts from ——— (PDF) ‘Stones with character : animism, agency and megalithic monuments.’, in Materialitas: working stone, carving identity Chris Scarre …https://www.researchgate.net › publication › 279444394_’.. << Some later monuments too have carved motifs, and those motifs may imply they were thought to embody ‘human’ qualities. An ‘animistic’ or ‘anthropomorphic’ reading of these blocks may provide additional insights into the social practices and beliefs which lay behind the construction of megalithic monuments. … Ethnography suggests that prominent landscape features were invested with special significance by prehistoric communities, as sites of mythological or sacred importance. … If those sources were already considered places of power in the landscape, the use of largely unworked blocks may have been a means of visibly appropriating those powers of place. … These are standing stones of north-west France, systematically felled and incorporated into passage graves during the later 5th millennium or early 4th millennium BC. It is clear, however, that they were originally erected in the open air during the 5th millennium BC (Scarre 2007) Far from being ‘brute’ blocks, these stones appear to have been fashioned specifically to evoke elements of the human form. … A good example is provided by the decorated stone immediately inside the entrance to the Ile Longue passage grave (Péquart et al. 1927, pl. 65, 66) (Fig. 3a). … What unites these divergent interpretations is the notion that the representation is in some way anthropomorphic. … Equally, it is important to recognise that stones need have no resemblance to the human form in order to represent humans.Standing stones may hence in some, and perhaps many, cases represent people. It must be observed, however, that only a minority of them incorporate active representations of the human form. … In a much-quoted study, Alfred Gell drew attention to the way in which inanimate objects, notably ‘idols’, are considered to possess animacy and agency by those who worship them. … Was that agency brought into being only by the act of carving, or did the motif merely strengthen and make manifest a quality of agency that was already immanent in the block before it was carved? … In explaining the agency of idols, Gell provides several descriptions of the actions or ceremonies by which images (which may be only vaguely anthropomorphic in their basic form) can be consecrated, brought to life or renewed (Gell 1998, 144-153). … Yet the aniconic nature of the slabs on which they were carved, the presence of disembodied human features, and the fact that very few of the slabs which make up these tombs are decorated in this way, together suggest that the imagery itself is only a clue to a deeper meaning. We have already mentioned the power and prevalence of anthropomorphism – the tendency to ‘humanise’ objects in the world around us. … More recent studies have redefined animism as the anthropomorphisation of apparently inanimate things (along with animate plants and animals) in the specific sense of social interaction (Bird-David 1999). … There is indeed a major methodological problem, since the attribution of life to an inanimate object would be difficult to determine unless that object were modified in some way. … The key feature of megalithic blocks is their size, and it is by their size that they communicate power and fix the attention. … Mircea Eliade emphasised the cross-cultural ‘power’ that stones exercise on the human imagination, observing that “[m]en have always adored stones simply in as much as they represent something other than themselves” (Eliade1949, 216). Eliade saw those stones that are associated with burial as serving as a prison or dwelling for the souls of dead, who might otherwise trouble the living (Eliade 1949, 219). It is clear that among many traditional societies, individual stones are considered to enclose human-like identities or life-forces. … Were these blocks considered to contain forces or qualities that were conceptualized partly in anthropomorphic terms? In some cases, it may have been those special qualities that were made manifest through shaping or the addition of carvings. Such modifications would have accentuated the active character of the block; but the scarcity of more naturalistic human representations indicates that it was felt sufficient merely to suggest. … It may be misleading to draw a sharp distinction between those stones which to our eyes are clearly anthropomorphic, and those which are not. It is the carving and shaping of megalithic blocks, however, that suggests most clearly that they may have been endowed with human-like qualities, or that the powers they incorporated were thought of in at least partly human terms. That in turn implies that they possessed agency, the perceived ability to act upon and interact with the world of the living. … Nonetheless, the possibility exists that some of these stones relate to a world of animistic powers that were conceptualised in human form. >> – – – – – – C O N C L U S I O N S – – – – – In developement of religions, Gobekli Tepe was in paganist stage, at the last stage, beeing evidences to begin to turn to gods worshiping. Developement succeded everywhere in the folowing order: animism, totemism, samanism, paganism. Animism is the oldest and longest throughout history, some aspects beeing present even nowdays. If totemism was present, animism was the most visible and pregnant at Gobekli Tepe. Not to be confused, animism does not mean only or resume to spirit- worship, IT IS ABOUT NATURE WORSHIPING. DIVINE NATURE THROUGH DIVINE ENTITIES ! (… whatever entities could be, gosths, spirits or demons ) Pillars were not lifeless stones, nor humans or antropomorphic gods, hunter-gatherers comprehend stones as persons. Because stones were inhabiting spirits, wich had personality. Non-human entities, spirits inhabits them. If much later, huwasi stone is sacred to a deity  and is usually situated in a temple, then the more such aspects existed earlier. To equate pillars with stone persons, pillars does not need to have only minimal antropomorphic traits. Otherwise (if more, by accentuation) sugested power and spiritual character would diminish ! There at the Holy-Mound (sumerian Du-Ku) G.T. people receive from Divine powers (sumerian En-lil, lord-ghost) through shamans the sets of knowledge. Also there were kept earlier (sumerian-like) nature worshiping fertility festivals. T-shaped pillars, has the same shape as sumerian proto-cuneiform sign Me, wich ment “beeing” and “will to live” so direct related to life. But beginning with pillars full of life through various sculptured living animals and totem-poles like Kilisik-Adiyaman sculpture with a hole and child in front and Urfa-man,

So-called Urfa Man is considered the oldest known life-sized sculpture of a man (Photo: J. Notroff, DAI).

…all not induce awe or reflect in the first time relation to divinities but rather a close connection with life.Also composite sculpture with two childs in front:


..Urfa-man, quite common, ordinary looking person at best some local Ensi(sumerian for ruller..see collar) or respected ancestor. … If somebody is no convinced how could be related stones to life, here you have nowdays: https://teara.govt.nz/en/photograph/11584/mauri-stone

This mauri stone depicts Horoirangi, a female ancestor in the Rotorua area. Such stones were believed to maintain mauri (life force) in areas which provided food. Horoirangi was carved into a cliff face to preserve the fertility of her people’s lands. Later the stone was removed from the cliff so it would not be stolen.

You noticed where and how the hands are ?

Concluzie finală. Simbolurile H si I de pe pilonii Gobekli Tepe.

September 30, 2021

Simbolul H este un semn rar, incepand de la petroglife si continuind apoi de-alungul timpului.

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Semnul iese la suprafață doar din preistorie și mult mai frecvent în timpurile ulterioare, când a fost folosit în scris. Destul de ciudat, apare frecvent pe pilonii in T de la Gobekli Tepe în două forme, H și I. Din lucrarea lui Wayne Herschel http://thehiddenrecords.com/gobekli-tepe-taurus-bull

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Dead heads: Turkish site reveals more evidence of neolithic 'skull cult' |  Archaeology | The Guardian

Dacă încercați să găsiți originea sau cel puțin o sursă de inspirație pentru semnul H pe Pământ și pe Cer, va fi foarte greu de găsit, mai ales într-un trecut atât de profund. Nu ar putea fi un fosfen sau o ieșire instantanee din mintea cuiva. Au existat alte propuneri și explicații pentru semnele H la Gobekli Tepe: – Fiind o pereche, doi oameni uniți; – H compus din două semne T (Ray Urbaniak). – Acesta de mai sus, în opinia mea, înseamnă și două semne proto-cuneiforme sumeriene T = eu, eu-eu (sub + deasupra = cosmos). – Simbolul Luwian în formă de „H” este logograma pentru PORTA („poartă”; Petra Goedegebuure, comunicare personală). Nu atât de mulți semeni știu că strămoșul literei H latine / grecești erau următoarele semne: – semne elamite liniare da,

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Vechile ideograme chinezesti,

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Semnul Linear a, “Pa3”

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Semnul Luwian porta=usa,

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Si semnul vechi canaanit Cheth/heth: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fc/Paleo_Hebrew_Letter_Het.svg ….. Și toate acestea având la rândul lor (poate? Presupun) la origine semnul proto-cuneiform sumerian Ku.

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H, Heth și Ku au toate aceeasi schiță, în funcție de modul în care se unesc 6 puncte.

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Dar ceea ce este mult mai important este faptul că acesta este aspectul pătrat al formei constelației Orion. Această formă asemănătoare „scării” este legată în tradiția egipteană cu cerul / viața viitoare De la https://en.m.wikipedia.org / wiki / Osiris “Prin speranța unei vieți noi după moarte, Osiris a început să fie asociat cu ciclurile observate în natură, în special vegetația și inundațiile anuale ale Nilului, prin legăturile sale cu creșterea heliacală a Orionului și a lui Sirius la începutul noului an. ” În vechea scriere chineză este legată de strălucire și lumină (vezi forma veche a ideogramelor soarelui și lunii). Să nu treacă neobservat ideogramele „de sus” și „sub” care sunt jumătate de semn H! ——– Nu este de mirare că forma H / Ku a apărut în cultura PPNA a lui Gobekli Tepe în două cazuri: ca simboluri H pe stâlpi și ca semnele Ku / Ladder / gate în așa-numitele găuri de hublou.

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https://www.dainst.blog › 2017/03/20 https://ro.pinterest.com/pin/353251164495504746/

—— Indiferent ce a fost prima: cea mai mare pe cer, constelația Orion; „lumina” ur sumeriană (Uru-An-Na, lumina cerului), sau vreun semn antic pentru ușă, poartă / poartă

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Din https://ttlawson.com › in-plain-sight-…In Plain Sight: The identity of the Twin Pillars of Göbekli Tepe << Mă aventurez ca, la fel cu „O” și „C”, „H” reprezintă, de asemenea, o figură cerească și, în plus, un candidat probabil ar fi Orion – o constelație extrem de vizibilă și recunoscută pe scară largă. Orion poate fi vizualizat ca un „H.” Un rând de trei stele strălucitoare, „centura lui Orion” ușor identificabilă, ar constitui traversa, cele mai strălucitoare patru stele din constelație servind în perechi drept montanți, formând, aproximativ în paralel, două linii drepte imaginare. o serie de interpretări tehnice ale configurațiilor cerești având legătură cu Göbekli Tepe, multe cu privire la poziționarea structurilor în sine în raport cu evenimentele cerești. Acestea au sprijin în orientarea Stonehenge și a altor monumente ale epocii de piatră în ceea ce privește solstițiile. Găsirea „H” a emblemei lunii pentru a reprezenta Orion este de un alt fel, dar prezintă o nedumerire legată de timpul și locul observatorului. Așa cum se întâmplă, datorită precesiunii echinocțiilor, în 9000 î.Hr. Orion ar fi fost vizibil pe cerul sudic la Göbekli Tepe doar de la centură în sus. Cu toate acestea, acest lucru nu trebuie neapărat să stea în calea interpretării. Constelația ar fi fost vizibilă în întregime în sudul Mesopotamiei.Și au intrat în joc la sfârșitul paleoliticului superior și neoliticului niveluri ridicate de comunicare și schimb intergrupal în întreaga regiune: „Aceasta era o lume extrem de conectată. Au existat mai multe canale de comunicare de-a lungul cărora un repertoriu simbolic s-ar fi putut răspândi și reînnoi ”(Hodder și Meskell, 2011, p. 259). Prin urmare, nu este deloc plauzibil ca constelația în întregime să fi devenit un element fix în imaginația umană în întreaga regiune, chiar dacă Orion era vizibil în întregime doar într-o parte a acesteia. Mai mult, o figură atât de strălucitoare și distinctivă pe cerul nopții, precum Orion, ar invita la interpretare. Luați în considerare faptul că cineva de astăzi, ridicându-și privirea spre Orion, nu ar fi, fără a fi explicat într-un fel sau altul, să evoce imaginea unui vânător puternic.Că constelația este văzută ca atare, totuși oferă un alt motiv pentru ideea lui Orion: Orion este descris în mit ca un tovarăș de vânătoare al Marii alte zeițe Artemis – a cărei emblemă era semiluna – și care era, de asemenea, zeița vânătoarea. O altă stea deosebit de strălucitoare, Sirius, este direct asociată cu Orion, care apare în linie dreaptă din centura distinctivă a lui Orion. Numit „Steaua câinelui”, este legat în legendă de Orion ca unul dintre câinii săi de vânătoare. Luate, aceste conexiuni ar trebui să justifice un tratament provizoriu al „H” ca simbol pentru Orion, cel puțin până când se poate prezenta o explicație mai sigură.Semiluna lunii care se ridică recent înainte de zori este orientată spre orizontul estic din care se naște, așa cum ar putea fi un arc îndoit pentru a trimite o săgeată înapoi în acea direcție. Prin contrast, arcul semilunii lunii în creștere văzut înainte de apusul soarelui indică în direcția opusă, spre orizontul vestic în care se scufundă. Cele două „C” care încadrează figura „H” de pe centura stâlpului lunii ar replica cu acuratețe, prin urmare, poziționarea unei figuri astrale precum Orion – sau alta, Calea Lactee, de exemplu – ca fiind în picioare între semilunile opuse. deoarece ar putea fi meditați la răsăritul zilei și la amurg de către scanere antice ale cerului de noapte. >> eugenrau: Legat de extinderea vizibilității Orion, culturile Kebaran și Natufian s-au extins în principal în sudul Mesopotamiei. Din Gobekli Tepe and rebirth of Sirius http://www.andrewcollins.com

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PROTOTIPUL SUMERIAN, VECHI CHINES, FENICIAN, LINEAR A ȘI TOATE SEMNELOR ASEMĂNĂTOR H (CARE MENTĂ STRĂLUCEȘTE, LIGT) SE GĂSEȘTE LA GOBEKLI TEPE 9.600 î.Hr. ! Legat de scopul și semnificația semnului, presupun că: – a fost folosit în ritualurile moartii, ritualuri legate de cultul strămoșilor (seelenloch = gaura sufletului; vezi hublourile templului) și posibil în astronomie / calendare. – semnificația exactă era posibilă, chiar de atunci. Cel puțin nu era un nume pentru Orion. Dacă ghiciți o semnificație a semnului, acesta ar putea fi: „strălucitor, ușor” … (poarta cerului?) În timp ce vânătorii-culegători Gobekli Tepe practicau înmormântarea cerului, este firesc să ne așteptăm să caute viața de apoi în cer. Orion, cea mai mare constelație vizibilă ar fi putut fi poarta, portalul prin care trebuiau să treacă. Documentație https://symbolsage.com/sumerian-gods-list/Gula, cunoscută și sub numele de Ninkarrak, a fost zeița vindecării, precum și patronul medicilor. Era cunoscută sub mai multe nume, inclusiv Nintinuga, Meme, Ninkarrak, Ninisina , Și „doamna lui Isin”, care au fost inițial numele altor zeițe. ” * Că semnele H și I ar putea fi văzute ca fiind compuse din două semne T, nu am nicio prioritate pentru ideea Puterea cosmică a șamanului și simbolurile la Göbekli Tepe – Partea II De Özgür Etli OZGUR BARIS ETLI << Sunt Ozgur Baris Etli, m-am născut în EskiÅŸehir, Turcia. Am finalizat atât programul meu de licență, cât și programul de masterat în astronomie și științe spațiale la Universitatea Ege, Äzmir, Turcia. Teza mea de licență a fost despre exoplanete și teza de masterat despre căutarea bio-moleculelor în … Citește mai mult >> Din https://www.ancient-origins.net/opinion-guest-authors/cosmic-power-shaman-and-symbols-g-bekli-tepe-part-ii-005194?fbclid=IwAR3VFECUBQyfaWWEbsgMCgaYCMwDHEwJ87PsWcyzfJABMtoLDe0qynAWGDY Puterea cosmica a samanului …… Simbolul „H” nu este doar un simbol monolitic în sine. Se compune din două părți, pe care le putem defini ca Tau … Ray Urbaniak interpretează simbolul „H” pentru a însemna forme duble T. Două forme de T unite formează un T. dublu. El mai spune că Tau reprezintă jumătate din lumea spirituală. Deci, ne putem imagina că simbolul „H” constă din două simboluri Tau. În opinia mea, ambele simboluri laterale de lângă simbolul „H” reprezintă soarele care răsare și apune. … Utilizarea pe scară largă printre popoarele americane indigene a formei Tau inversate și verticale ca embleme ale celor de sus și de jos este dovedită din abundență și a apărut, fără îndoială, la fel de natural ca și caracterele chinezești „Shang: Deasupra”, folosite ca simbol pentru cer, și „Lea: dedesubt sau sub”, folosit ca simbol pentru pământ. Conexiunea dintre Cer și Pământ reprezintă creația inocenței și acest lucru este reflectat de linia centrală. …. Așadar, pot sugera că misteriosul simbol „H” este despre o legătură „Cer (Cer) – Pământ: deci viața ar putea exista”. În credința șamanică, Pământul își ia forța vieții din cer prin cordonul ombilical. Din acest motiv, Göbekli Tepe ar trebui văzut ca un site important. (Interesant este că în turcă „Göbek” înseamnă „Buricul”). …. Se crede că forța vieții este întotdeauna acolo, dar nu întotdeauna vizibilă. Se crede că este vizibil în anumite zile ale anului. Aceste zile sunt echinocțiul și zilele solstițiului. Pe de altă parte, simbolul „H” sau „Me” înclinat poate fi legat de conexiunile Est-Vest, Femeie-Om sau Zeiță-Dumnezeu. …. În acest caz, șamanul poate fi servit și ca o punte ritualică între pământ și cer. >>

Contribuția mea la dezvoltarea științei, pentru care nu am găsit ideea altcuiva, a fost că am afirmat ca FORMA T A FOST LA ORIGINEA SEMNULUI SUMERIAN PROTO-CUNEIFORM ULTERIOR : ME=„PUTERI DIVINE” Deci, două semne T combinate dând formă lui H și I, care este puterea divină multiplicată și semnifică legatura intre sus si jos, PUTEREA TOTALĂ, ȘAMANICĂ = PUTEREA COSMICĂ

…… Pământul a fost imaginat plat in acele timpuri, iar cerul ca un acoperiris plat, nu curbat. Cerul și Pământul au fost unite printr-o legatura in mijlocul semnelelor H și I, ca un mat de buric. Gobek / lb.turca = “buric”

Utah petroglyphs

Notă. 1. MeMe este Me reduplicat, iar dacă Me este putere divină, meme va fi pluralul, puteri divine. A existat o divinitate feminină sumeriană Bau, Baba, Ur-Bau sau Ur-Meme cunoscută și sub numele de Gula. Gula este în sumeriană “putere” (aproape de Gyula maghiară). De la https://www.worldhistory.org/Gula/ <<Gula (cunoscută și sub numele de Ninkarrak) este zeița babiloniană a vindecării și patronă a medicilor, a artelor vindecătoare și a practicilor medicale. Ea este atestată pentru prima dată în perioada Ur III ( 2047-1750 î.Hr.) unde este menționată ca o mare zeiță a sănătății și bunăstării …. Numele ei (Gula) înseamnă „Mare” ..>> „Deci vedeți acel semn H, compus din două T = eu = putere divină este meme care înseamnă Gula, puteri. 2. Ur-Meme a fost un fel de medic, om-medic(al) = șaman Din https://cz.stories-college-science.rest ›… Citește online Zeița vindecătoare Gula către o înțelegere … << Vindecarea – vindecarea sufletului sau corpului cuiva spre sănătate, șaman, om medicinal, … Gula / ninkarrak este o zeitate vindecătoare ..>> “Forma” T “și pilonii T a fost asociată și chiar mai mult, identică cu sacrul. Aproape același lucru a fost adevărat pentru simbolurile H și I, erau simboluri sacre.

Final conclusion.The H symbols on Gobekli Tepe’s pillars.

September 26, 2021

H symbol is a rare sign from petroglyphs along ages onward.


It is coming to surface only from prehistory, and much frequently in later time, when was used in writing. Weird enough it is appearing frequently on T-pillars at Gobekli Tepe in two shapes, H and I. Wayne Herschel propose that icons to be for Orion constellation: http://thehiddenrecords.com/gobekli-tepe-taurus-bull

Dead heads: Turkish site reveals more evidence of neolithic 'skull cult' |  Archaeology | The Guardian

If you try to find the origin or at least a source of inspiration for H sign on Earth and in the Sky, will be very hard to find one, especially in such deep past. Could not be a phosphene or instant-out of one’s mind. There were other proposals and explanations for H signs at Gobekli Tepe: – As beeing a pair, two united humans; – H composed of two T-signs(Ray Urbaniak). – This one above, in my view also mean two sumerian proto-cuneiform T=me signs, me-me (under+above=cosmos). – The “H”-shaped Luwian symbol is the logogram for PORTA (“gate”; Petra Goedegebuure, personal communication). ———– Besides, Sidharth thinks “H” sign on one of the centered pillars symbolizes Orion constellation. According to him, sun and moon signs remark the solar eclipse [4]. According to Schmidt, H-like sign characterizes the man and woman relationship [8]. https://ekstrembilgi.com/archaeology/the-secret-of-gobekli-tepe-cosmic-equinox-and-sacred-marriage/ ———– Not so many fellows know that the ancestor of latin/greek H letter were folowing signs: – linear elamite signs da,

  • – Old chinese sun/moon ideograms,
  • Linear A sign Pa3
  • Luwian sign porta/door
  • And canaanite-phoenician-old hebrew cheth/heth.

And all theese having in their turn (maybe? I hypothesise) at the origin the sumerian proto-cuneiform sign Ku.


H, Heth and Ku all have the same blueprint/sketch, depending how one is uniting 6 points.


—— But what is much important is the fact that this is the sqetch of the shape of the Orion constellation.This “ladder”-like shape is linked in Egyptian lore with heaven/future life From https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osiris “Through the hope of new life after death, Osiris began to be associated with the cycles observed in nature, in particular vegetation and the annual flooding of the Nile, through his links with the heliacal rising of Orion and Sirius at the start of the new year.” In old chinese writing is linked with shiny, light.(see the old shape of sun and moon ideograms). Not to pass unnoticed the ‘above’ and ‘under’ ideograms wich are half of a H sign! ——- No wonder that H/Ku shape appeared in PPNA culture of Gobekli Tepe in two instances: as H symbols on pillars and as Ku/Ladder/gate signs in so called port-holes.

https://www.dainst.blog › 2017/03/20 https://ro.pinterest.com/pin/353251164495504746/

———- No matter what was first: Biggest on sky, Orion constellation; sumerian Ur “light” (Uru-An-Na, light of heaven),or some ancient sign for door,gate/gateway ========


eugenrau: Related to Orion visibility extension, Kebaran and Natufian cultures extended mainly in southern Mesopotamia. From Gobekli Tepe and rebirth of Sirius http://www.andrewcollins.com

From https://ttlawson.com › in-plain-sight-…In Plain Sight: The identity of the Twin Pillars of Göbekli Tepe << I venture that, as with the “O” and the “C,” the “H” also represents a celestial figure, and furthermore that a likely candidate would be Orion — a highly visible and widely recognized constellation. Orion can be visualized as an “H.” A row of three bright stars, the readily identifiable “Orion’s belt,” would constitute the crosspiece, with the four most brilliant stars in the constellation serving in pairs as the uprights, forming, roughly in parallel, two imaginary straight lines.There have been a number of technical interpretations of celestial configurations having to do with Göbekli Tepe, many with respect to the positioning of the structures themselves in relation to heavenly events. These have support in the orientation of Stonehenge and other Stone Age monuments in respect to the solstices. My finding the “H” of the moon emblem to stand for Orion is of a different sort, but it does present a perplexity having to do with the time and place of the observer. As it happens, owing to the precession of the equinoxes, in 9000 BC Orion would have been visible in the southern sky at Göbekli Tepe only from the belt up. This, need not necessarily, however, stand in the way of the interpretation. The constellation would have been visible in full in southern Mesopotamia. And there had come into play in the late Upper Paleolithic and Neolithic high levels of intergroup communication and interchange over the whole of the region: “This was a highly connected world. There were multiple channels of communication along which a symbolic repertoire could have spread and been renewed” (Hodder and Meskell, 2011, p. 259). It is therefore by no means implausible that the constellation in full might have become a fixture in the human imagination throughout the region, even though Orion was visible in full in only part of it. Moreover, such a bright and distinctive figure in the night sky as Orion would invite interpretation. Consider that someone today, looking up at Orion, would not, without its being in some way explained, readily conjure up the image of a mighty hunter. That the constellation is seen as such, however, supplies a further ground for the idea of Orion here: Orion is portrayed in myth as a hunting companion of the Great other goddess Artemis — whose emblem was the crescent moon — and who was also goddess of the hunt. Another notably bright star, Sirius, is directly associated with Orion, appearing in a straight line from Orion’s distinctive belt. Called the “Dog Star,” it is linked in legend with Orion as one of his hunting dogs. All taken, these connections should warrant a provisional treatment of the “H” as a symbol for Orion, at least until a surer explanation might present itself. The crescent of the moon newly rising before dawn is oriented toward the eastern horizon from which it arises, as might be a bow bent to send an arrow back in that direction. By contrast, the bow of the crescent of the waxing moon seen before sunset points in the opposite direction, toward the western horizon into which it sinks. The two “C’s” framing the “H” figure on the belt of the moon pillar would accurately replicate, therefore, the positioning of an astral figure such as Orion — or another, the Milky Way, for instance — as standing between the opposed crescents as they might be pondered at break of day and at dusk by ancient scanners of the night sky.>>


My contribution (eugenrau) to the science developement, for wich I not found somebody else idea, that T SHAPE WAS AT THE ORIGIN OF LATER SUMERIAN PROTO-CUNEIFORM SIGN ME: “DIVINE POWERS So, two T signs combined giving shape to H and I, wich is multiplied divine power and signifies the connection between up and down, TOTAL, SHAMANIC POWER = COSMIC POWER

THE PROTOTYPE OF SUMERIAN, OLD CHINESE, PHOENICIAN, LINEAR A AND ALL H-LIKE SIGNS (WICH MENT SHINE, LIGT) IS TO BE FOUND AT GOBEKLI TEPE 9,600 B.C. ! Related to the purpose and meaning of the sign, I suppose that: – was used in death, ancestor cult rituals (seelenloch=soul-hole;see temple portholes) and possible in astronomy/calendrics. – the exact meaning was possible already fergotten even then.At least was not a name for Orion. If guess a meaning of the sign, this could be: “shiny, light”…(heaven gate?) As Gobekli Tepe hunter-gatherers practiced sky burial, it is natural to expect they sought afterlife in the sky. Orion, the biggest visible constellation could have been the gateway, portal through they needed to pass. Documentation From https://symbolsage.com/sumerian-gods-list/ “Gula, also known as Ninkarrak, was the goddess of healing as well as the patroness of doctors. She was known by many names including Nintinuga, Meme, Ninkarrak, Ninisina, and ‘the lady of Isin’, which were originally the names of various other goddesses.” ********* I have no priority for the idea that H and I signs could be seen as composed of two T signs. From Cosmic Power of the Shaman and Symbols at Göbekli Tepe – Part II By Özgür Baris Etli << Cosmic Power of the Shaman … In my opinion, the leopard skin emblematizes the Cosmic Puissance or cosmic power of the shaman.  The H symbol One of the highly disputed symbols is the H-like symbol (and also “( H )” symbol) which is seen carved on  Enclosure D pillars. Some say this symbol emblematizes the Orion constellation. I think this is not true. Because, besides the “H “symbol, there is an “I-like” symbol, which can define as slanted “H”. Both of them are not related to Orion. To provide some intriguing and factual meanings based on cultural and archaeological datas: “H” symbol is not only a monolith symbol itself. It consists of two parts, which we can define as Tau…Ray Urbaniak interprets the “H” symbol to mean double T shapes. Two T shapes butted together form a double T. He also says that Tau represents half of which is in the spiritual world. So, we can imagine that the “H” symbol consists of two Tau symbols. In my opinion, both of the side symbols next to “H” symbol represent the rising and setting sun. …The widespread usage amongst indigenous American peoples of the inverted and upright Tau shape as emblems of the above and below is abundantly proven and doubtlessly arose as naturally as the Chinese characters “Shang: Above”, employed as a symbol for heaven, and “Lea: Below or Beneath”, employed as a symbol for earth. The connection between Heaven and Earth represents the creation of innocence and this is reflected by the central line. ….So, I can suggest that the mysterious “I” symbol is about a “Heaven (Sky) – Earth connection: so the life could exist. In shamanic belief, Earth takes its life force from the sky via the navel cord. Göbekli Tepe should be seen as an important site for this reason. (Interestingly, In Turkish “Göbek” means “The Navel”). ….Life force is believed to be always there, but not always visible. It is believed to be visible on specific days of year. These days are the equinox and solstice days. On the other hand, the “H” or slanted “I” symbol may be about East-West, Woman-Man or God-Goddess connections. ….In this case, the shaman may have also served as a ritual bridge between earth and sky. >>

…… the Earth was ment at 9,000 B.C. flat and the sky as a cover, so also flat not curved. Sky and Earth was united by middle stroke in H and I signs, like a navel cord. Gobek/turkish=”navel”

Utah petroglyphs

Note. 1. MeMe is Me reduplicated, and if me it is divine power, meme will be plural, divine powers.There was a sumerian female divinity Bau, Baba,Ur-Bau or Ur-Meme known also as Gula. From https://www.worldhistory.org/Gula/ “Gula (also known as Ninkarrak) is the Babylonian goddess of healing and patroness of doctors, healing arts, and medical practices. She is first attested to in the Ur III Period (2047-1750 BCE) where she is referenced as a great goddess of health and well-being. ….Her name (Gula) means ‘Great‘ ..” Note: 《Gyula (title), a Hungarian title of the 9th-10th century It means Leader 》 So you see that sign H, composed of two T=me= divine power(s) is meme wich means Gula, “great” (power). 2. Ur-Meme was kind of wich, medicine-man=shaman From https://cz.stories-college-science.rest › …Read online The Healing Goddess Gula Towards an Understanding … “Healing – healing of one’s soul or body in wellness; shaman, medicine man, … Gula/ninkarrak is a healing deity..” Shape “T” and accordingly T-pillars was associated, and even more, identified with divine life spirit and power. ========== H and I signs. Are more complex, double T’s. Both had complex meaning: – Ment Orion, wich was the icon/symbol of light, heaven (and possible gateway toward it) – Ment Divine/cosmic powers, life force wich connects Earth and Heaven.There is at the hand of samans. – Both signs could be also ideograms for living creature/life. =========

In previous posts, I gave hard evidences that T-shaped pillars are divine, sacred symbols. Pillars are temples, in fact houses wich inhabit Life Spirit. If T shape is sumerian proto-cuneiform sign Me and had a complex meaning: “divine powers – divine decree – (divine) beeing – rite – will to live”, for Gobekli Tepe’s people had also complex meaning, but mainly “Life Spirit

https://www.researchgate.net › 3305…Paradoxes of the Idea of Progress and Cultural … – ResearchGateС. 150-174 [Yemelianov V.V. On the Original Meaning of Sumerian ME (Images of … [Emelyanov V.V. An Answer to the Paper by I.A. 《me:”will to live“》https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Will_to_live

“Ray Urbaniak interprets the “H” symbol to mean double T shapes. … He also says that Tau represents half of which is in the spiritual world. ” (.. and I am adding, sure also the cass for I symbols). If I stressed (later, after Urbaniak) that H is composed of two T-s, I was the sole wich found that H’s and I’s signs were composed in the same time as of two T’s, also composed of two sumerian proto-cuneiform Me signs ! I advanced that H and I are symbols much complex as Me “divine powers= life spirit”, are symbols of life-giving Divine Cosmic Powers. If Özgür Baris Etli asserted : “..So, I can suggest that the mysterious “I” symbol is about a “Heaven (Sky) – Earth connection: so the life could exist. In shamanic belief, Earth takes its life force from the sky via the navel cord.Göbekli Tepe should be seen as an important site for this reason. ” ÷÷÷÷÷÷ I give hard evidence (not supposing) to Baris Etli and mine hipothesis that H/I are symbols of divine powers wich connect Sky and Earth ÷÷÷÷÷÷÷ So, H and I symbols are also 2xT =Me-Me; Meme (Ur-Meme) was Gula healing Goddess.So H and I possible were Her symbols, or divine powers of shamans symbols with divine/healing powers as her’s.Shamans connects divine powers of Sky and Earth and restoring (sound) Life.

Göbekli Tepe, the power of life, the will to live.

September 22, 2021

There were a number of ideas and proposals regarding the role and purpose of the Gobekli Tepe cult complex and the significance of the T-pillars. I also searched trying to understand the meaning of the T-shaped pillars, sinthesysed as follows: – the pillars have the shape of Tau-cross or capital letter T. – the sign T had in the Sumerian (proto-cuneiform) writing, a complex meaning, summarized in the word Me: “divine powers”. – Russian schollar V. Yemelianov showed that the etymology of the word Me leads to the end meaning of “will to livehttps://www.researchgate.net › 3305…Paradoxes of the Idea of Progress and Cultural … – ResearchGateС. 150-174 [Yemelianov V.V. On the Original Meaning of Sumerian ME (Images of … [Emelyanov V.V. An Answer to the Paper by I.A. 《me:”will to live“》https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Will_to_live – ​​My conclusion was that the T-shaped pillars, (and maybe even the small stone statuettes), mean “power, spirit, essence of life” . The stone pillars were the house where the spirit of life lived. Proof that there is a real chance that my hypothesis will be confirmed is found in the old religion of the Maori people in New Zealand. From https://maoridictionary.co.nz/word/3960?fbclid=IwAR3II_gTZJcv7N9pccLW_IsTi5oI2pfRAQEXMTlQIw6q-y2yE6RmwnDumDg << Mauri 1. (noun) principle of life, life force, vital essence, special nature, material symbol of a principle of life, source of emotions – the quality and essential vitality of a being or entity. It is also used for a physical object, individual, ecosystem or social group in which this essence is located. >> From a previous post of mine: Regarding the T-shaped pillars, “anthropomorphic” is perhaps a little too much for the name. Because the T-pillars did not represent a deity or a man. The people of Gobekli Tepe were animists. In general, temples are houses of the gods. The shape of the pillars is abstract, because it is a house, temple and not the divinity itself. At the same time it is temple and spirit, idol. A stone idol that is inhabited by a spirit, so largely “alive”. tartariatablets.com From https://books.google.ro › booksMythical Stone “It is not the stones per se that are worshipped in these cases, but the spirits inhabiting them.”

From Mauri, mana and nature as an ancestor – Sustainable … https: //sustainable.org.nz ›SBN News << Mana refers to an extraordinary power, essence, presence and charisma. It is an ever-present energy and applies to humans, the cosmos and the natural world. When this supernatural force is allowed to flow, all life is improved and invigorated. However, without the Mauri/ life force, the hand cannot flow into a person or object. Mauri is the energy of life that connects and animates all things in the physical world. Without Mauri or the essence of life, the hand cannot flow into a person or object. The actions we take can improve or diminish the Mauri in the same way that caring for our health improves and neglects our health, degrades it. >> From https://teara.govt.nz/en/speech/14063/mauri-stone << Te Ara Mauri stone – Te ngahere – forest lore – Te Ara Encyclopedia of New Zealand This Moorish stone was found on Moutohorā (Whale Island) in the Gulf of Plenty. Māori believed that the principle of life or the mauri of a forest, tree or waterway could be concentrated in a stone or other object of protection. >>

Mauri stone – Te ngahere – forest lore – Te Ara Encyclopedia of New Zealand

From https://teara.govt.nz/en/photograph/11584/mauri-stone << This Moorish stone depicts Horoirangi, a female ancestor from the Rotorua area. It was believed that such stones kept the Mauri (life force) in the areas that provided food. Horoirangi was dug into a rock to preserve the fertility of her people’s lands. The stone was later removed from the rock so that it would not be stolen. >>

Mauri stone – Kaitiakitanga – guardianship and conservation – Te Ara  Encyclopedia of New Zealand

From https://www.alamy.com/a-stone-mauri-probably-placed-by-growing-sweet-potatoes-or-groups-image60274788.html << A stone Mauri, probably placed by cultivating sweet potatoes or groups of trees in the forest, to maintain the life force of the plants >>

A stone mauri, probably placed by growing sweet-potatoes, or groups of  forest trees, to hold the life-force of the plants Stock Photo - Alamy

From Gobekli Tepe: http://thehiddenrecords.com/gobekli-tepe-taurus-bull

Wayne Herschel - Author - The Hidden Records - discovered 35 ancient star  map cases around the world showing human origins from one of three sun  stars near the Pleiades

… see same position of the hands on belly.. From Quora Is Gobekli Tepe older than Jericho? – Quora

Is Gobekli Tepe older than Jericho? - Quora

From Ancient OriginsGöbekli Tepe Shamans and their Cosmic Symbols – Part I | Ancient Origins

Göbekli Tepe Shamans and their Cosmic Symbols – Part I | Ancient Origins
Mauri (Stone Talisman)
Mauri Stones – Lux Deluxe

At Gobekli Tepe :

First Pictorial Representation of Gobekli Tepe Found | Ancient Origins |  Ancient aliens, Ancient civilizations, Ancient humans
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/28/8e/78/288e78d6a8b80c437b204660c36be338.jpg http://www.andrewcollins.com/pics/7.%20stone%20ring%20GT.jpg

From Gobekli Tepe Pillar 43 – Vulture Stone


From https://tepetelegrams.wordpress.com/2016/05/05/losing-your-head-at-gobekli-tepe/

Losing your head at Göbekli Tepe | The Tepe Telegrams

Göbekli Tepe, puterea vietii, vointa de a trai.

September 21, 2021

Au existat o serie de idei si propuneri privind rolul si scopul complexului cultic de la Gobekli Tepe si a semnificatiei pilonilor T. Am cercetat si eu incercand sa deslusesc semnificatia stalpilor in forma de T. Am facut o serie de observatii si cercetari rezumate in pasii dupa cum urmeaza: – pilonii au forma crucii Tau sau literei T . – semnul T a avut in scrierea sumeriana, o semnificatie complexa, rezumata la Me: “puterile divine“. Din https://cdli.ucla.edu › tools › archsigns proto-cuneiform signs

– Cercetatorul rus V.Yemelianov a aratat ca etimologia cuvantului Me conduce la intelesul “vointa de a trai” Din https://www.researchgate.net › 3305…Paradoxes of the Idea of Progress and Cultural … – ResearchGateС. 150-174 [Yemelianov V.V. On the Original Meaning of Sumerian ME (Images of … [Emelyanov V.V. An Answer to the Paper by I.A. 《me:”will to live“》https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Will_to_live – Concluzia mea a fost ca pilonii in forma de T , dar poate si micile statuete de piatra, semnifica “puterea, spiritul, esenta vietii“. Pilonii de piatra au fost casa in care salasluia spiritul vietii. Dovada ca sunt sanse reale ca ipoteza mea sa se confirme se gaseste in vechea religie a poporului maori din Noua Zeelanda. Din https://maoridictionary.co.nz/word/3960?fbclid=IwAR3II_gTZJcv7N9pccLW_IsTi5oI2pfRAQEXMTlQIw6q-y2yE6RmwnDumDg << mauri 1.  (substantiv) principiu de viață, forță de viață, esență vitală, natură specială, simbol material al unui principiu de viață, sursă de emoții – calitatea și vitalitatea esențială a unei ființe sau entități. De asemenea, este utilizat pentru un obiect fizic, individual, ecosistem sau grup social în care se află această esență.>> Dintr-o postare de-a mea anterioara: În ceea ce privește stâlpii în formă de T, „antropomorf” este poate puțin prea mult pentru denumire. Deoarece stâlpii în T nu reprezentau o divinitate sau un om. Oamenii Gobekli Tepe-ului erau animiști. in general, templele sunt case ale zeilor. Forma pilonilor este abstractă, deoarece este un templu și nu divinitatea în sine. În același timp templu și spirit, idol. Un idol de piatră care este locuit de un spirit, deci în mare măsură viu . tartariatablets.com Din https://books.google.ro › booksMythical Stone “Nu pietrele per se sunt venerate in aceste cazuri, ci spiritele pe care le salasluiesc. “

Din Mauri, mana and nature as an ancestor – Sustainable …https://sustainable.org.nz › SBN News <<Mana se referă la o putere, esență, prezență și carismă extraordinare. Este o energie mereu prezentă și se aplică oamenilor, cosmosului și lumii naturale. Când această forță supranaturală este lăsată să curgă, toată viața este îmbunătățită și revigorată. Cu toate acestea, fără mauri / forța vieții, mana nu poate curge într-o persoană sau obiect. Mauri este energia vieții care leagă și animă toate lucrurile din lumea fizică. Fără mauri sau esența vieții, mana nu poate curge într-o persoană sau obiect. Acțiunile pe care le întreprindem pot îmbunătăți sau diminua mauri în același mod în care grija pentru sănătatea noastră o îmbunătățește și ne neglijează sănătatea, o degradează.>>

Din https://teara.govt.nz/en/speech/14063/mauri-stone << Te AraMauri stone – Te ngahere – forest lore – Te Ara Encyclopedia of New Zealand Această piatră mauri a fost găsită pe Moutohorā (Insula Balenelor) în Golful Plenty. Māori credeau că principiul vieții sau mauriul unei păduri, copaci sau căi navigabile ar putea fi concentrat într-o piatră sau alt obiect de protecție.>>

Mauri stone – Te ngahere – forest lore – Te Ara Encyclopedia of New Zealand


Din https://teara.govt.nz/en/photograph/11584/mauri-stone << Această piatră de mauri îl înfățișează pe Horoirangi, un strămoș feminin din zona Rotorua. Se credea că astfel de pietre mențin mauri (forța vieții) în zonele care furnizau hrană. Horoirangi a fost săpată într-o stâncă pentru a păstra fertilitatea ținuturilor poporului ei. Mai târziu piatra a fost scoasă de pe stâncă, astfel încât să nu fie furată. >>

Mauri stone – Kaitiakitanga – guardianship and conservation – Te Ara  Encyclopedia of New Zealand

Din https://www.alamy.com/a-stone-mauri-probably-placed-by-growing-sweet-potatoes-or-groups-image60274788.html << Un mauri de piatră, probabil plasat prin cultivarea de cartofi dulci sau grupuri de copaci din pădure, pentru a menține forța vieții plantelor>>

A stone mauri, probably placed by growing sweet-potatoes, or groups of  forest trees, to hold the life-force of the plants Stock Photo - Alamy

—————– De la Gobekli Tepe: Din http://thehiddenrecords.com/gobekli-tepe-taurus-bull

See the same hands position on belly as on mauri stone. Din Quora Is Gobekli Tepe older than Jericho? – Quora

Wayne Herschel - Author - The Hidden Records - discovered 35 ancient star  map cases around the world showing human origins from one of three sun  stars near the Pleiades
Is Gobekli Tepe older than Jericho? - Quora

Din Ancient OriginsGöbekli Tepe Shamans and their Cosmic Symbols – Part I | Ancient Origins

Göbekli Tepe Shamans and their Cosmic Symbols – Part I | Ancient Origins

Mauri (Stone Talisman)
Mauri Stones – Lux Deluxe

—— Gobekli Tepe:

First Pictorial Representation of Gobekli Tepe Found | Ancient Origins |  Ancient aliens, Ancient civilizations, Ancient humans
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/28/8e/78/288e78d6a8b80c437b204660c36be338.jpg http://www.andrewcollins.com/pics/7.%20stone%20ring%20GT.jpg

Din Gobekli Tepe Pillar 43 – Vulture Stone


Din https://tepetelegrams.wordpress.com/2016/05/05/losing-your-head-at-gobekli-tepe/

Losing your head at Göbekli Tepe | The Tepe Telegrams

Revederea vârstei și autenticității tabletelor Tartaria.

September 16, 2021

Chiar eram pe punctul de a scrie un articol cu intentia de a demonstra ca autenticitatea tabletelor de la Tartaria nu se susține, având mai mult de 50 de argumente pentru aceasta, contra numai 10 împotrivă. Dar recitind articolul profesorului iesean Attila Laslo: “Cui bono? Gândul pentru reconsiderarea tabletelor de la Tartaria” în care acesta răspunde acuzațiilor asiriologului Erika Qasim cu privire la arheologi și tabletele în sine.   Qasim, Erika: Die Tărtăria-Täfelchen – eine Neubewertung. In: Das Altertum, ISSN 0002-6646, vol.58, 4 (2013),p. 307–318 Vedeti: ACADEMIE ROUMAINE INSTITUT D’ARCHEOLOGIE « V. PARVAN » DACIA REVUE D’ARCHEOLOGIE ET D’HISTOIRE ANCIENNE NOUVELLE SÉRIE LX 2016 Cui bono? THOUGHTS ABOUT A “RECONSIDERATION” OF THE TĂRTĂRIA TABLETS ATTILA LÁSZLÓ* http://www.daciajournal.ro › …PDF Rezultate de pe web of the Tărtăria tablets – Dacia

Pasajele (dintre cele referitoare la semne) care m-au convins: << În opinia ei (Masson, E. 1984 L ‘écriture dans les civilisations danubiennes néolithiques. Kadmos 23, 2, 89-123. Berlin & New York.), <<…chiar dacă locația, data și condițiile descoperirii tabletelor rămâne nesigura până la clarificări suplimentare, examinarea atentă a tabletelor, existența urmelor de uzura pe suprafața lor, de exemplu, atestă faptul că nu erau falsuri: „… Pe tabletele 1 și 2, observăm semne speciale de uzură, părți ale semnelor puțin decolorate sau frecvente fisuri în jurul gravurilor. Astfel de fenomene mărturisesc vechimea; dacă ar fi falsuri, fabricarea lor ar fi atribuită unui mare expert în domeniu, în același timp o înțelegere fină a scrierilor arhaice pe care România nu le are la cunoștința mea ”53. Un alt fapt poate fi adăugat la aceste observații: în cazul unui fals, falsificatorul s-ar fi străduit să producă un obiect cât mai fidel posibil modelului mesopotamian pe care dorea să-l imite, ar fi avut grijă să aleagă materie primă de calitate, și să respecte formatul tabletelor (care nu ar fi trebuit perforate și arse), să aplice tehnicile de scriere corespunzătoare (prin impresie) și să reproducă unele dintre cele mai caracteristice semne. De asemenea, el ar fi avut grijă să asigure documentația de excavare adecvată pentru a preveni suspiciuni ulterioare cu privire la circumstanțele descoperirii.
Dincolo de aceste argumente logice, observațiile de fapt care atestă autenticitatea (caracterul antic) al
tabletelor, dintre care unele au fost deja menționate mai sus, sunt decisive. De asemenea, trebuie remarcat faptul că existența unei acoperiri calcaroase pe suprafața tabletelor, care a trebuit îndepărtată pentru a face vizibile semnele, a fost o dovadă reală a faptului că obiectele au rămas sub pământ o suficienta de lunga perioada, de timp pentru a putea forma acumularea de calcar. ….. Până la efectuarea unor astfel de analize, observația rezultată din investigațiile microscopice recente pe suprafața tabletelor, conform căreia, în conturul canelat al unora dintre semnele de pe tablete, s-au găsit urme de sol, rămâne decisiv: „Examinarea atentă a tabletelor indică rămășițe de
sol în conturul mai multor semne
[…] Solul amestecat cu roci și minerale poate proveni doar din groapa ritualică. Acesta este un alt element faptic în favoarea afirmației privind autenticitatea artefactelor inscripționate. Prezența solului încapsulat exclude acuzațiile că sunt un fals modern neidentificat de N. Vlassa sau doar un „joc” al descoperitorului ” (sublinierea mea, A. L.). >> eugenrau: A. Laszlo a fost prezent la săpături chiar în ziua în care au fost găsite tablete, dar ciudat, total inexplicabil, nu le-a văzut (!?). Argumentele sale din articolul Qui bono? ….. mi-au schimbat din nou părerea și m-au convins că tabletele nu sunt contrafăcute. (M-am răzgândit înainte, alternativ de mai multe ori, pana a fi convins ca tablitele sunt autentice și nu contrafăcute.) Ca sa fiu sincer, articolul său ar putea fi în principal o reacție reflexă de aparare. Pentru apărarea și susținerea întregii activități a arheologilor participanti atunci la sapaturile sitului Tartaria-Lunca, lucrări care au fost criticate fără milă și au fost avansate grave acuzații.Tabletele nu sunt contrafăcute, dar în același timp nu sunt sumeriene originale, foarte vechi. Tabletele sunt reale, au fost inscriptionate de cineva și în această perspectivă sunt „autentice”. De obicei, un scrib folosea de obicei semnele folosite uzual în timpul și zona sa, ceea ce cu siguranță nu este cazul aici. Dar vă voi arăta dovezile că tablitele nu sunt mai vechi de 2.000 î.e.n. ! Un scrib nu poate nici cunoaște și nici utiliza la un moment dat semne care au fost inventate sute de ani mai târziu. ! … Cum este cazul aici, unde pe tableta rotundă, întregul rând superior conține semne surprinzator de noi : pe partea stângă, un tip de H (o scară cu 3 trepte) și în dreapta, unele D-uri și O-uri. ————- Semne cu exact această formă nu exista printre semnele proto-cuneiforme sumeriene. Sumerienii foloseau semnul proto-cuneiform Ku care are o formă „încasetata”. Din From https://cdli.ucla.edu/tools/SignLists/protocuneiform/archsigns.html

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Semnul următor este GAR, adică ninda = “rație, pâine”

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———- Deci, dacă consideram ca avem de-a face cu tablete de factura sumeriana, aceste semne nu ar trebui să fie prezente pe tablete. Rețineți faptul că pe tablita, „H” are o formă „deschisă” și bare verticale decalate, iar D este litera noastră /latina de tipar D.

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Prima oara acest semn “H” apare exact în aceeași formă în scrierile hieroglifica Cretana și Lineare A si B (2.000 î.Hr. ca semn Pa3) și mai târziu în vechea scriere canaanita/ feniciana, ca semn Cheth / Heth (1.500 î.Hr.).

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Above, Linear A sign PA3
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Privitor la semne cu forma D, cel mai vechi semn cu forma asemanatoare este:

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Comparați semnul cuneiform ninda, o logogramă care reprezintă cuvântul sumerian pentru „mâncare” sau „pâine”. Prima imagine este de ninda într-o tabletă din Ur ~ 3000 î.Hr., în timp ce celelalte sunt de ninda într-un fragment al unui text medical din Ninive ~ 650 î.Hr. Mare diferență. https://mobile.twitter.com/Moudhy/status/1160935592420663296/photo/2

Unii cercetători au spus că „scribul” a imitat semnele sumeriene pentru numere (A.Falkenstein: D = 1 și o = 10), iar alții au spus că semnele D imita reprezentarea rațiilor, pâinilor sau ca secventa DDoc reprezinta fazele lunii (M.Merlini).

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Khirbet Qeiyafa Ostracon (Iron Age I–II transition) 10 century B.C.
See https://kids.britannica.com/students/article/D-d/273894
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Oricum, scribul cunostea bine semnele care se foloseau deja în jurul său, nu trebuia să inventeze niciunul dintre aceste semne asa, instantaneu „pe loc”. Semnul D a fost folosit pentru litere (D si R) mai târziu în greacă arhaică (850 î.e.n.) și puțin mai târziu in alfabetele Anatoliene. Din Chapter 8 Europe-II – The Unicode Standard, Version 13.0 << Vechile alfabete anatoliene Lycian, Carian și Lydian datează toate din primul mileniu î.e.n. și au fost folosite pentru a scrie diferite limbi indo-europene antice din vestul și sud-vestul Anatoliei >> ———– Deci, semnele de pe tablete nu trebuie să aibă o origine obligatoriu sumeriană și nici scribul să fie un sumerian nativ. Pentru ca altfel, multe din semnele de pe tablete pot fi găsite în toate scrierile Egeene și în scrierile Anatoliene. Deci, locul și timpul originii ar putea fi mai degrabă zona Egee (Creta? 2.000 -500 î.e.n.) sau Anatolia. (200 î.e.n.-500 d.Hr.)

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AVEM MULTE SEMNE PE TABLETE DIN ALFABETELE ARHAICE GRECEȘTI ȘI ANATOLIENE, INCLUSIV FOARTE PROBLEMATICE, AMBELE SEMNE H si D ! Mă întreb dacă unele pictograme și ideograme (de origine sumeriană) ar fi putut fi transmise de-alungul timpurilor, chiar cu semnificații pierdute dar poate utilizate în ritualuri?

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http://www.visitalbaiulia.city/worlds-oldest-writing-system IMG_1895low.jpg

———— Dacă nu luam semnele „H” și D-s ca fiind arhaice Grecești sau Anatoliene, ci ca semne ce le imita pe cele proto-cuneiforme sumeriene, atunci întregul conținut al tabletelor pare pe de-antregul sumerian. De aceea savanții A.Falkenstein, A.A.Vaiman și R.Kolev le-au interpretat ca si cum ar fi sumeriene. Primii doi, au realizat de la bun inceput că scribul este ezitant, iar semnele nu sunt sumeriene propriu-zis, ci ca-si-sumeriene. Chiar și titlul uneia din lucrări expliciteaza acest aspect: http://www.archeo.ru ›izdaniya-1Археологические вести. Спб, 1994. Вып. 3. Аннотации.A. A. Vaiman. On the Quasi-Sumerian tablets from Tartaria. Cu această înțelegere au interpretat tabletele ca fiind sumeriene. A. Falkenstein a remarcat faptul că unele semne nu sunt exact precum cele proto-cuneiforme, ci doar imitat-sumeriene, asemănător-sumeriene. Semnele proto-cuneiforme sumeriene au fost utilizate pentru o perioadă de timp relativ scurtă (3.500-3.000 î.Hr.), apoi de la 3.000 î.Hr. până în 1935 niciun ochi uman nu le-a văzut. Pentru că au stat ascunse privirii, îngropate la câțiva metri sub pământ (sub templu Eanna, Uruk). Astfel, difuzarea acestor semne a fost cumva limitată. Vedeti expansiunea culturii Uruk: https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Expansion-territorial-de-la-cultura-de-Uruk-aubet-2007_fig2_269696365 Pe harta se vede ca cultura Uruk, descoperitoarea scrisului, nu s-a extins pana in interiorul Anatoliei ori ariei Egeene. ——- Scribul cu siguranță nu era sumerian, mai degrabă negustor din Marea Egee sau Anatolia, (…sau poate cineva dintr-un loc foarte apropiat ?). Falkenstein si Vaiman dar si eu, toti am constatat ca interpretarea semnelor nu conduce la un mesaj consistent; unele semnificații sunt unice, semnificatia reieșind din semnele în sine. – Nu am nicio explicație pentru intenția scribului de a arăta semne asemănătoare celor sumeriene. Sau: – Nu voi înțelege niciodată motivația, ce l-a determinat, ambitia scribului de a arăta cuiva cum a evoluat scrisul de-a lungul timpului sau să arate câte semne sumeriene știe. ——– Am căutat în amanunt, suspectand o multime de persoane, continuand să cercetez în detaliu, și după ce le-am tot cantarit, am ajuns în cele din urmă la aceeași concluzie cu Emilia Masson: „Dacă ar fi fost falsuri, fabricarea lor ar fi fost atribuită unui mare expert în domeniu. , în același timp, un bun cunoscător al scrierilor arhaice pe care, după știința mea, România nu ii are „ eugenrau: … Dacă am cauta cai verzi pe pereti, atunci desigur, putem vedea inclusiv fazele lunii, dar un epigrafist trebuie să respecte niste principii si reguli și să caute semne apartinand unor sisteme de scriere. Așa cum au si făcut în mod firesc savantii Adam Falkenstein și Aizik Abramovich Vaiman.


September 14, 2021

To see how powerful and extended is demic and cultural difussion, I bring it to your attention the sumerian proto-cuneiform sign “ladder with 3 rungs”, Ku: “shine of metals, sacred,silver, precious metal, noble..”

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wich was probably at the origin of other signs: minoan/linear B sign for bronze

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 From http://people.ku.edu/~jyounger/LinearA/&nbsp;                      *140 [] AES bronze/copper ,and chinese signs for sun/moon:

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Note: Our “ladder” sign on Tartaria round tablet has exact PA3/ cheth shape and not sumerian proto-cuneiform sign Ku shape.Using that sign, the scribe disclosed (intentionally or not) that not used sumerian 3.000B.C. sign(s).

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https://eastasiastudent.net › japan › j…Japan in Japanese: Nihon · にほん · 日本 | East Asia StudentSo that’s how you write the ni from Nihon in hiragana. … This character

literally means ‘sun’.

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From https://www.dainst.blog › 2017/03/20 Guarded by beasts: a porthole stone from Göbekli Tepe

Göbekli Tepe. A monumental porthole stone from the northwestern hilltop areas (Photo O. Dietrich).

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