Tartaria tablets, advanced research. (Latest). Answers to allmost possible questions.

October 31, 2019

Tartaria tablets, latest advanced research. Answers to allmost possible questions.

Picture,from https://www.descopera.ro/stiinta/3343280-misterele-tablitelor-de-la-tartaria

Map from https://cersipamantromanesc.wordpress.com/2014/07/30/adevarata-istorie-a-descendentei-noastre/

Image result for tartaria alba harta Tartaria village, Alba County

Only three important, crucial issues have been  in the attention of researchers, during decades since discovery of the tablets in ’61, until today.

N.Vlassa , chief in charge at the archaeological diggings. supposed discoverer .               His picture from https://actualdecluj.ro/semnificatia-tablitelor-de-la-tartaria-muzeul-de-istorie-din-cluj-detine-cele-mai-vechi-scrieri-din-istoria-civilizatiei/

Image result for nicolae vlassa arheologul

Image result for tartaria tablets arheologie.ulbsibiu.ro Tartaria groapa Luncii from arheologie.ulbsibiu.ro

But also the same questions still surrounded by mistery, and interesting the audience at the highest level:                                                                                                                            1.real age  2. Genuine?  3. Whether or not carry a form of writing.                                       The answers to these questions will be, each of them detailed and almost dissected, and  have been the result of more than 10 years of dedicated research. Into the field of birth and followed by the evolution of writing in the world, various world writing systems, and then the comparative study customized and applied to Tartaria tablets (Tartaria tablets=TT)

1. Are TT as old as spoken/rumors ?

Various researchers have advanced different ages.There is no convergence of opinions. Their discoverer, N.Vlassa told of about 2.700 B.C. Then others went up to 5.300 B.C. (e.g. M.Merlini).                                                                                                                                             The age of 5.300 BC after me is completely out of  question, and the 2.400-2.700 BC is the maximum extreme theoretical! limit from which I can discuss after my humble opinion. I Will explain the reasons why even this latter age is not possible.

2.What are the arguments of most researchers for these TT ages (after me unrealistic)?

For 5,300 BC :                                                                                                                                          – the alleged finding of the tablets in the layer corresponding to the civilization of Vinca and the age same as of the bones (5,300 BC/C14) assumed to be found in the immediate vicinity. Image, from https://www.thelivingmoon.com/46ats_members/Lisa2012/03files/Tartaria_Tablets.html

Image result for tartaria bones Tartaria Groapa Luncii, female bones dated 5.300 B.C.

At present, very few researchers are still claiming such an old age.                                     For 2400-2700 BC :                                                                                                                               – possible fallen down from above strata, so origin from newer layers (and hence the membership of artefacts to crops such as Cotofeni? Baden? Petresti?) and                          – related assessments of some artifacts found in the immediate proximity of TT, as pertaining to later cultures than Vinca A-C, as well as                                                                   – judgments and comparisons generally related to the time of appearance, and the evolution of writing in the world.

From https://alba24.ro/autenticitatea-tablitelor-cu-semne-pictografice-de-la-tartaria-enigma-pentru-unii-istorici-ce-spune-arheologul-horia-ciugudean-care-in-1989-a-participat-la-sapaturi-400800.html  :

Image result for tartaria groapa luncii Artefacts found alegedly with the tablets,

Image, from  https://fashiondocbox.com/90885882-Jewelry/Tartaria-and-the-sacred-tablets.html

Image result for  tartaria groapa luncii Tartaria-Groapa Luncii (the very site where tablets were found)

3.Were TT in that layer (VINCA) ? Were the tablets near the bones?

It is not known for sure;
“there are no photos or sketches, blueprints of the exact location of each artifact, and much more,

  • – Not known who were present/ all the persons close to the moment of discovery,        – where exactly were every of them, or walked in the ritual complex, when and how much time some missed (eg. Vlassa some hours)                                                           – Who was the very person who first saw or found TT                                                      – In fact who first touched them is not known.                                                                   – When, who gathered, packed the artefacts and transported to museum , when and to whom were given, where in the museum were put ?

In conclusion, there are no witnesses and no hard evidence of where exactly where every artefact/item including TT were placed or were found in the entire religious complex.                                                                                                                                               AS A RESULT, I HAVE ANY ASSISTANCE AND CANNOT RELY ON ANY EVIDENCE REGARDING THE PLACE AND MOMENT OF DISCOVERY, AND THE SAME ON ESTIMATED AGE, REMAINING FOR ME THE SINGLE OPTION, THAT OF ANALISING THE SIGNS !

4.  There is available a scientific method of measuring their age exactly?

Their Age cannot be determined with any of the current methods. Worse not anymore, as the tablets have been baked in an owen (who has decided at an unknown temperature is not known) apparent, immediately after discovery, because they seemed to be friable.                                                                                                                                       (Not to be enough, before  chemical structure was changed , as were impregnated with nitrolack !)

5.Could be TT genuine  sumerian or how much could be related to the early stage of the sumerian handwriting?

There are not a sumerian, it is absolutely certain.                                                                          Top researchers in the proto-writing field said that although the signs are similar to the sumerian proto-cuneiform (proto-writing stage), the signs and writing are not authentic/genuine sumerian.                                                                                                              These researchers only mentioned these similarities and differencies in the passage and in a superficial way.                                                                                                                              I went into more detail and explained that the signs are similar in shape reflected only as blueprints, schematic way/sketch the proto-sumerian signs, but they have no their counterpart concrete shape.                                                                                                       Researchers shows shortcomings, they have                                                                                 – not identified all the signs, and they have                                                                                      – misidentified others. (Ex A. Vaiman, R.Kolev and others).                                                                                                                                                                                                                              The resemblance is due to the filogenesis of the writing in general. That is, the connection and the ultimate sumerian origin and transmission of the signs and in fact of many writing systems used in the Near East and in the Aegean area. Such a filiation, apart from the one noted by researchers I.Papakitsos and G. Kenanidis (relative to the Aegean proto-linear writing) is supported and explained by me and in addition and sometimes more detailed. However, I did not think of some assyrologists and specialists in sumerian proto-writing/proto-cuneiform (e.g. Falkenstein, A. Vaiman, R.Kolev) to approach a sumerian interpretation as long as they claim that signs are not proper/really sumerian?

From The Origins of Writing as a Problem of Historical Epistemology                 Peter Damerow https://cdli.ucla.edu/pubs/cdlj/2006/cdlj2006_001.html

figure1

<<…. early writing systems seems to indicate, as Ignaz Gelb has pointed out in his famous Study of Writing (Gelb 1952: 212-220), that the idea spread in various directions at the beginning of the 3rd millennium BC from centers in Mesopotamia and Egypt. Proto-Elamite writing occurs only a short time after proto-cuneiform. It was used for a short period in vast areas of the Iranian plateau. In the second half of the 3rd millennium BC, writing is attested as far to the north as Ebla in Syria and to the east as the Indus culture in modern Pakistan. Minoan writing starts at Crete around the turn of the 3rd to the 2nd millennium BC. At that time, cuneiform writing is also attested further north in the regions of Anatolia.>>

                                                                                                                                                                   6. What examples could be given  to support the fact that TT are not genuine sumerian ones ?

  • Always the sumerian signs/marks for numbers (with the apparent  D-letter shape) in the Sumer were made by imprinting, but ours are made by tracing/scratching.
  • Sumerian numbers : from https://sites.utexas.edu/dsb/tokens/the-evolution-of-writing/
  • Image result for sumerian 3.200 proto writing numbers (Fig. 2) Impressed tablet featuring an account of grain, from Godin Tepe, Iran (Courtesy Dr. T. Cuyler Young, Royal Ontario Museum, Toronto)
  • Image result for proto-cuneiform Proto-cuneiform tablet (W 9578,g) from Uruk IV, 3350-3200 BC …
  • Only D-shaped proto-cuneiform sumerian NINDA/”bread” sign was traced/scraped. (on the right).                                                                                          Image from https://ro.pinterest.com/pin/488640628318570008/?lp=true
  • Image result for proto-cuneiform school tabletImage result for borger ud.unug proto-cuneiform
  •                                                                                                                                                     (We have on TT first D-sign on round TT very close to it, but not the same.            Image from http://aplaceofbrightness.blogspot.com/2008/11/moonlight-in-romania-tartaria-tablets_21.html&nbsp;                        
  • Image result for living moon tartaria)
  • Very many signs though reflecting by general way the shape of the sumerian proto-cuneiform ones, in fact their concrete and exact shape is much more like those that were later used in the Anatolian, Aegean (and even many in the Mediterranean) writings. As well as in the Near East (canaanite, phoenician).                 
  • IT IS A FACT THAT WAS NOT NOTICED NOt A WORD, BY ANY SCIENTIST, (ONLY BY ME) THAT:                                                                                                                                      – MANY SIGNS ON THE ROUND TABLET IS REFLECTING AN EVOLUTION, (CHANGED SHAPES THAN PROTO-CUNEIFORM), REFLECTING A LATER PERIOD OF TIME                                                                                                                                      One example:    Image result for moonlight tartaria     picture from  http://aplaceofbrightness.blogspot.com/2008/11/moonlight-in-romania-tartaria-tablets_21.html&nbsp;                                                                                                                       The H-like sign (on the round tablet with 3 horizontal bars) looks much more like, and even is exactly the same as the folowing:                                                                          – the Heth sign from canaanite writing/1.500-1.200 BC,                                                    – the Pa3 sign from the Aegean/2.000-1.500 BC,                                                                     – the archaic ETA/Heta sign from the archaic Greek/ 800-500BC (apparent crooked-looking due of offset vertical bars). But the sign is actually further present throughout  Mediterranean. Only one sign is identical to that of proto-cuneiform, the sign +++++++, the sumerian ‘As’ and another is approaching (the 1-st D), the sumeria sign “Sur“.

The Sumerians, during any period, used a uniform writing corresponding to the time during which the scribe was living. They did not use pictograms and ideographic signs on separate tablets at/in a given time.

7. The shape of clay TT is very important?

I don’t think it is. Image from https://www2.uned.es/geo-1-historia-antigua-universal/ESCRITURAS_ANTIGUA/Escrituras_3__antiguas_BALKAN_DANUBE-SCRIPT.htm

 Clay disc from Vinca, Serbia

Otherwise I know more examples  round tablets.                                                                  Sumerian star map, from                                                                                 https://curiosmos.com/this-5500-year-old-sumerian-star-map-recorded-the-impact-of-a-massive-asteroid/

Image result for sumerian star chart

and none sumerian ones with a hole. Then the Cretan tablets with the hole, but not perfectly round-shaped.

 Linear Script A/ http://arthistoryresources.net/greek-art-archaeology-2016/minoan-outline.html , and round ball:

 Cypro-Minoan clay ball in Louvre, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cypro-Minoan_syllabary

Folowing Karanovo tablet http://institutet-science.com/sakralna-plochica-karanovo/?lang=en

Image result for karanovo tablet

Another round tablet & holes, from Tartaria : https://adevarul.ro/locale/alba-iulia/tablita-secreta-tartaria-contine-obiectul-arheologic-descoperit-2014-semnele-erau-ascunse-privitorilor-1_57fcfa425ab6550cb876646f/index.html

Image result for tartaria tablet

Then the discussion about how flat or swelling/bulged are some or others do not see to be much productive.

 8. Are the TT genuine ?

YES. (More so yes than no! )                                                                                                                ( partly No, because it does not seem to be the result of a one’s intention to communicate by writing something connected with a particular economic or religious necessity.)

Yes, because the one who wrote them didn’t intended to fool somebody and whatever intented (we do not know what), the scribe was fair intended. It seems he wanted rather to practice the evolution of  writing or to show someone the same evolution and basic principles of writing.                                                                                                                     Maybe at the best succeded to write a short ritualic formula or short written economical token.

9. If the “writer” intended to show the evolution and writing principles, could be like/kind ofsumerian-like school scribal tablets ?

Definitely no. Because school scribal tablets:                                                                                  – put youngsters to copy teacher’s texts,                                                                                         – to divide tablets in writing sectors, and                                                                                    – were quite repetitive in content, as containing lexical lists, eg. of things, ocupations, etc.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         From The tablet House: a scribal school in old Babylonian Nippur Eleanor Robson https://www.cairn.info/revue-d-assyriologie-2001-1-page-39.htm#

  • Types of school scribe, writing-learning tablets:

Table 1

Table 3 The order of the elementary curriculum in House F[20]
Table 3
tableau im13

10. What is the point, or why there are 3 tablets together?

The question can be asked because if you have something to say, you write everything on a tablet and  not spreading the message in three different places. Or at least write using the same writing system.                                                                                                 The answer is that he wanted to show the evolution of the writing from icons to ideograms, and even to some extent to syllables and letters.                                          We have                                                                                                                                                   – a rectangular (without hole) tablet with icons.                                                                            – another rectangular tablet (with hole) with ideograms.(These ideograms/logograms may have in the extreme the function of syllabograms)                                                         – a Round tablet (with hole) to all appearances shows the Aegean syllabograms, or even letters (Anatolian/archaic Greek).                                                                                              (except for 2 complex rituallic? marks/ideograms present in the right-hand lower quarter).

11. Are there any cases in the world of using by the same scribe of two or three writing systems?

Only exceptionally, two, e.g. the Roseta stone written with Egyptian hierogliphs and Greek letters, but there is no known case in which 3 writing systems appear (as in our case) and not with systems whose temporal spread  covers 2000-3000 years!      (Sumerian proto-cuneiform 3.300BC, Cretan  Hierogliphic 2,000 BC, linear A/B 1500 BC, Greek archaic writing 800-300BC) >> time span 3.000 years !

12. Is it claimed that the (by somewhat majority) the assumption  that the signs were used at religious ceremonies?

Although researchers make reference some for economic use and others for religious, none of them fully supports or demonstrate any of the alternatives. In other words, leave open the way for any interpretation (including a mixed one !?)
The scales is serious inclining for yes.                                                                                      (only slightly Not, since                                                                                                                        – the tablets contain only 2 complex ideograms (in the round of the right-bottom quarter) that could play a role in religious ceremonies,  otherwise all signs were used in different areas by different civilizations for true writing !                                                                           – many researchers noticed possible number marks, so economical purpose)                                Mainly Yes, since the round plate contains in the right-hand-bottom quarter 2 complex ideograms and in addition the rectangular one with the hole contains many ideograms/logograms, all of which are applicable to religious rites.                               And again, yes, as  it is possible that ONLY the upper half of the round tablet  contain a written/verbal/ritualic formula for use in such ceremonies. This may be, or sure it is the explanation, that this portion was usually hidden from the direct view of the passers-by, being covered by the rectangular one.

13. What about  scribe’s training on writing?

Most researchers claim that he was almost illiterated. I support the same idea. It seems that in general the tablets were covered with many signs from different writing systems and the only section where the scribe has managed to write is the upper half of the round tablet. Probably he was aware of this fact from the very beginning!                       (!…iliterated, but how happened he had the ability and the science to display signs used in large spatial and temporal expansion !)                                                                                          Having access to a large sign library, and an ordered, organized character of the signs on 3 different tablets,                                                                                                                                – Now, I am seeing the scribe different as in the past time, not as a person close to illiterate but maybe a priest(ess) ?, or rather kind of Berossus of his time !

14.How much new in extreme, could be the tablets ?

Theoretically and practically it could reach the very period of  archaic Greek writing 800-300 BC or that of the etheocretan wich goes/rich to our era/AC. 

From Wikimedia Commons,File:CretanEpichoricAlphabets.png

File:CretanEpichoricAlphabets.pngBut it is excluded to be newer from the early Middle Ages due to certain aging traces. The possibility of a inscription of recent date does not exceed that of being written, by a catholic teacher-priest !!!, (… who had access to old writings and documents.)                          The tablets are shown as a collection of signs, apparently scattered from different areas and periods of time, but nevertheless ordered and somehow divided into three major  evolution of writing categories.                                                                                                  Who could have done this? It is all easier when we are approaching modern times ? where the possibility of access to signs used in the past is increasing.

15. The signs on the tablets belong to or are placed in a specific, particular writing in the world?

No! In fact my entire work mainly includes the testing of the various writing systems. Unfortunately no tablet is matching entirely with one writing. But no chance for all 3 tablets simultaneously ! The greatest closeness, that is, the largest number of signs can be found in the Sumerian proto-cuneiform and almost equal to the letters of the Anatolian writings.(the signs are found in the various Anatolian writings, the top being the carian writing/alphabets).

From Alphabets of Asia Minor https://tied.verbix.com/project/script/asiam.html

Then follows a series of Mediteranean writings, in the top  being Aegean  writings.               For these reasons, the writing and of course the tablets seem to have a subsequent age newer  of 2.400 BC. (See also Cretan hierogglyphic 2200-2000 BC ,linear A, 1800-1500 BC). None of the tablets can be read using a specific writing for each/no match. Much impossible to read/read using a single  writing system for all three !

16. Strictly on sign appreciation What age could be given to the  the signs ?

Although many signs and to a large extent only “look-like” the sumerian ones reflecting only by far their shape, in the general signs show to be much more recent (new). Unfortunately, a few (really few)  have not been used in the concrete form present on tablets absolutely no in the world before 1,200-1,500 BC !(e.g. sign D ; …oops present in Indus/Harappa writing)

From https://sites.google.com/site/collesseum/qeiyafa-ostracon-2

                                                              Khirbet Qeiyafa ostracon (1.000 B.C. ?)

17. The tablets belong to  Danube, Old Europe, or a Daco-Thracian civilisations ?

No, the Danube civilization/The Old Europe has come close, but it hasn’t even reached the stage of the proto-writing. cause was not a highly socially stratified society in this area, and there were no mach attraction or dedication to writing. In fact, the  tablets are singletones,  absolute unique. The tablets of Gradeshnita, Karanovo, Dispilio belong to other cultures and other phases of writing evolution (proto-writing).                     Regarding Cris-starcevo and Vinca Civilisations:

From Ancient DNA from South-East Europe Reveals Different Events during Early and Middle Neolithic Influencing the European Genetic Heritage https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0128810

“Firstly, archaeological data show that the Neolithic expansion from Anatolia was not a single event but was represented by several waves of migrants [24]. In this respect the Proto-Sesklo culture in Greece, from which directly Starčevo-Criş in the North Balkans and indirectly LBK in Central Europe originate [2526] represents only the first great wave of Neolithisation of Europe [27]. A later great wave of migration from North-West Anatolia led to important cultures of South-Eastern Europe such as Vinča and Boian cultures [28].                                                                                                                               …………..The first Neolithic inhabitants of Europe are described archeologically as belonging to the Aegean Early Neolithic cultures [27], from which the bearers of both the Starčevo-Criş-Körös complex in Serbia, Romania and Hungary [2837] and the Linear Pottery culture in Central Europe (LBK) [21] emerged.                                                          …………These data are in line with the idea of a common origin of the LBK and Starčevo-Criş cultures from the Aegean Neolithic cultures of Northern Greece/Thessaly, the first Neolithic complex in Europe [24].                                                                                     ……………..Fernandez E, Perez-Perez A, Gamba C, Prats E, Cuesta P, Anfruns J, et al. (2014) Ancient DNA Analysis of 8000 B.C Near Eastern Farmers supports an Early Neolithic Pioneer Maritime colonization of Mainland Europe through Cyprus and the Aegean Islans. “

18. Was the scribe a native of Tartaria ?

Definitely not ! The local community did not know the writing. The tablets were inscribed by an individual of different origin. From Anatolia and possibly from the Egeana area (Crete ?), or if you want of proto-Greek origin. Note that Anatolia is close, bordering  the Aegean, Syrian and Danube areas; (there are also indications of the presence of Anatolian craftsmen in the area of Vinca). TT could, however, be effectively inscribed by that person in his home-place or in extreme even in Tartaria.

19. What made for living the scribe; what could be his occupation/profession  ?

Others opinion is the same as mine, could be an prospector, craftsmen but much sure tradesman.

20.From the perspective of the evolution and existence of all writing systems in the world, which is the location occupied by TT signs ?

Here I have to say that because of the great similarity of the signs with the sumerian proto-cuneiform shapes, as well as the written signs used in the Aegean and Anatolia, to a large extent, it was possible and relatively easy interpretation of TT using each or any of these above writings This shows on the one hand the origin of the writing, but also the spread of the writing in space and time. The scribe and signs were coming  from somewhere in the space delimited by these civilizations.

From Writing in Neolithic Europe; an Aegean origin?  https://novoscriptorium.com/2019/09/28/writing-in-neolithic-europe-an-aegean-origin/

“For many years the earliest writing was assumed to have originated in Uruk, in Sumeria, Mesopotamia c. 3100 BC. Evidence from Egypt has now dated writing to c. 3400-3200 BC, while evidence from the Indus Valley suggests a date of 3500 BC for the development of writing there.  In the 1980s, a system of writing was noticed in the Balkans of the Final Neolithic period. This was identified as “pre-writing” by Shan Winn (1981) and Emilia Masson (1984) who considered whether this constituted a Vinča “script.” They each concluded that the Vinča signs represented a “precursor” to writing.

 

…   The Neolithic expansion, as is generally accepted in our time, started from the Aegean towards the North and not the opposite (of course, there also exists the controversial issue of some supposed initial migrations from Anatolia-Near East which, as we have presented with the help of officially published material, do not seem to be the case. It is more likely that domesticated seeds and animals were adopted by the Aegeans, through Trade, from the East rather than that the Aegeans were…substituted by some ‘ghost’ Eastern population that does not at all culturally-archaeologically appear in the Aegean or Southeastern Europe during the Neolithic). Therefore we must derive that Writing expanded from the Aegean to the North and not the opposite as some researchers have suggested in the past.”

 

21. The tablets could carry real script /true writing ?

 General opinion of scientists and scholars specialised in proto-writing is pointing for NO. Cause they realised that the signs are similar to those used in proto-writing, namely the proto-cuneiform signs. The use of proto-cuneiform signs is conducting only and unique to proto-writing ! And because almost all the signs are similar to those proto-sumerian it is about sumerian proto-writing.

Scientists also noticed that part of the signs are not identical in shape with those sumerian-ones, but probably thought that are a kind of variant, local adaptation, without explaining or detailing where or how this could happened. Thus begining with a basically “sumerian interpretation” their’s are in general close one to another and also close to mine.  Some told of economical tablets, seeing on the upper-right part of the round tablet only cereals and numbers.                                                                                                  But if taking as true that this section had ezoteric content and was intentionally hidden, it is cristal-clear that nobody was hiding numbers ! So numbers or ezoteric content, only one out of twoo !                                                                                                       But others, were pointing to an religious content, and not few saw ideograms wich not only could be used in religious rituals but in fact were practically used as such on a larger scale. In reality, the signs could be used for both purposes. In and describing an offering ritual ( cereals/bread and animals/goats). What I noticed myself that those ideograms are somehow similar to those used in ancient Aegean writings, (Cretan hierogliphic and Linear A), with the  result close interpretation. (even if  the signs are much close to those sumerian ones. )                                                                                    Exemple of closeness/similarities of Aegean signs to those sumerian ones:                                                              

Semn sumerian    Semn Egeean          Semnificatie                                                                             As,Se                          Te                          Cereale                                                                                  Gu,Gud                      Mu                           taur                                                                               Amar                        (a)Ma                     vitel/zeita-Mama                                                                 An                              ?                          zeu,cer                                                                                       Bad                            Da(Sa?)                        sacrificat,mort/                                                                 Ab /Zag/Ga’ar             Labrys               templu,stralucire/divin                                                      Ud                              capra,ied                         capra,ied                                                           Dara                                -”                                    -“-                                                               Ararma                      Asasara                          zeitate astrala?                                                         Gar                                   D                              masura volum cereale

From  https://enigmatica.ro/placutele-de-la-tartaria/

Image result for tablitele tartaria

From https://cdli.ucla.edu/pubs/cdlj/2015/cdlj2015_001.html&nbsp;                                                          BAD: …it bears the meaning “sacrificed,” or in the case of humans, simply “dead.”

Image result for damerow proto-cuneiform

From https://brill.com/view/book/9789004352223/BP000008.xml (see no.7, UD/goat)

Image result for goat proto-cuneiform

Folowing signs, from  https://cdli.ucla.edu/tools/SignLists/protocuneiform/archsigns.html

Ab Amar An Ararma As Sze/Se Ud5 Zag~a Zag~c Dara~3d Ga’ar~b1 Sur  Gar

 

All interpretations, of scientists and mine are sending to, are in close touch with an -religious ritual !  !

22. But if you ask me of an possible true writing ?

I say, I hope yes, on the round table, the top half, although we have there a kind of “impossible” combination of signs (“Doo/DDoc” sequence) and apparently no way out. However, in that half of the round tablet, we could have the archaic Greek letters:

Image result for tablitele tartaria pic from http://www.ziare.com/cultura/documentar/tablitele-de-la-tartaria-cea-mai-veche-scriere-a-lumii-descoperita-in-romania-1090967

To the left: Eta/Heta Rho/D?                                                                                                            And to the right:    Doo, DDoc?/ Dtwo?/RRoo, Roc?

What could be written, what possible texts?

It seems that we will never be able to have absolute certainty anymore, of any message or text. By one side                                                                                                              – we don’t know the language used, and by the other side                                                           – because there can be more possibilities of letters and not know for sure whether the P/D signs actually are for D or R letters ; and also,                                                                      – a concrete number of letters (even they are few !) may lead to a relatively large number of combinations of n as many as m)

Can one make suppositions at least?

Yes, there would be a set of proposals to be considered, for example:

Here Roc Roc Albanian here Rrok= time grab, understand

HeRos DiBoc=DiVos Greek Lord/master Zeu (use in religious ritual?)

EDE DiDou Greek “now give!”/”give to eat!” (This proposal is of some interest, since the root of the ED is present in both food-related words (e.g. EDTA) and in that of kid Ed.educs. We have one or more kids on the pictGraphics? So through the icon of the iedului can suggest the word Ed,Ede !: Mananca!/kid, iedule)

HeDe Didou Greek now,already give! (do you give it?; religious ritual?)

! Caution, *hed is the root Proto Indo-Europeana for ‘mananca’!

HRist(s) DDoc Latin “of the doctrine of christiana”

Hero, ERO DDoc (Decreto Doctor) Latin will be a doctor (Lat.”Professor”) in the theological doctrine)

etc

23. Again. Why 3 tablets, each with different “writing”, and how to explain this (only the appearance !) are there signs?

In fact, it is not a pile of signs. It Is the fruit of a conscious and deliberate effort. Remember, as for me, who have come to keep in mind hundreds of signs from each writing system, it would not necessarily be easy for me. If I intend to show to a student or any reader the main steps in the appearance and evolution of  writing, maybe I would do much the same.

On a tablet I would show pure icons/pictographs, as the ones on the pictographic tablet. I would choose about the same kind of basic signs, which almost identical meaning in the Sumerian proto-cuneiform as with those of cretan hyierogliphic  and Linear A.               Cereal and goat icons. There is also an absolute unclear sign , possible ghost, man, gods !?                                                                                                                                                            On the second (like rectangular tablet with hole), I would figure sumerian ideograms that are almost entirely and close shape found in the Aegean syllabograms .                                                           Signs: Cereals, Gods, labriys, Gods, Taurus).

 picture from https://www.descopera.org/tablitele-de-la-tartaria/

On the third (round tablet) I would figure the pure phonetic writing (but not necessarily alphabetic!).Those signs have corespondence in sounds . As summerian ideograms , Aegeene syllabograms, and even  to Greek and Anatolian letter wich has every of them coresponding phonemes/sounds.

Examples:

On the pictographic tablet:                                                                                                                  the grain/cereal Sumerian icon, similar to the Cretan sign for cereals. And then the common icon for the goat.

On rectangular tablet with hole, 3 examples:                                                                                  1. The sumerian sign “Se” <> the linear A sign  “Te“, cereal, grain.                                                2. Then the sign ‘Animal head with long ears’:                                                                                 the “AMAR” sumerian /calf and Cretan Hierogliphic /linear A “Mu”/Bull , linear B “Ma“/sign of Mother Goddess.                                                                                                                         3. And the sign of the Orion constellation, the “Zag“/ the shine of metal, linear “Labrys” sign of the linear A divine power.

-On the round plate, only 2 examples:                                                                                                 1. The H-sign with 3 bars is the sumerian “Ku“, linear A “Pa3″,canaanit “Heth” and archaic Greek  “Heta/Eta“, old Latin “H“.
2. Sign (as with # but only with 1 vertical bar):sumerian “Pa” and linear A “Pa” (later “Z” in many writings)

I don’t know why, also on the round plate, the right-bottom quarter, two complex ideograms appear, Picture from http://aplaceofbrightness.blogspot.com/2008/11/moonlight-in-romania-tartaria-tablets_21.html

e.g. one (on the right) is like the temple of solar gods Shamash/ 

Proto-cuneiform sign UD.UNUG:”sun -inner temple”

Image result for borger ud.unug proto-cuneiform

the sign of the punic Goddess Tanit, astral Goddess as Ishtar=the sign of the minoan astral Goddess Asasara.

From https://www.ancient-origins.net/ancient-places-africa/baal-hammon-and-tanit-0012136&nbsp;                                                                                                                      Symbol of Tanit, the consort to the king of the Punic pantheon. (mrholle / CC BY-SA 2.0) Punic Goddess Tanit

WHEN THE TOPIC IS THE DEVELOPEMENT OF WRITING, WIKIPEDIA COMES ALSO (as TT scribe have done and I also would do) WITH 3 MAIN STAGES:                                                                                                                       Din https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_writing

A conventional “proto-writing to true writing” system follows a general series of developmental stages:

  • Picture writing system: glyphs (simplified pictures) directly represent objects and concepts. In connection with this, the following substages may be distinguished:
    • Mnemonic: glyphs primarily as a reminder;
    • Pictographic: glyphs directly represent an object or a concept
    • Ideographic: graphemes are abstract symbols that directly represent an idea or concept.
  • Transitional system: graphemes refer not only to the object or idea that it represents but to its name as well.
  • Phonetic system: graphemes refer to sounds or spoken symbols, and the form of the grapheme is not related to its meanings.                                                                         ———————————————————-

24. What was aiming at, or real purpose of the tablets ?

If, after a sustained and tenacious effort, I managed, succeed to have in my little finger or mind, (… where you want), thousands of signs grouped into different writing systems; (not discuss my ability or expertise compared with others, though I want such a challenge). If I could make a collection of signs in this way, that is grouped on the main types of writing folowing the course of time, with all the possibilities of 20th century documentaries at my disposal, probably the result will be close to those tablets.

Who, for God’s sake, from where and how long, does not discuss with what purpose, made a collection of ordered signs and divided into three major groups of historical evolution ? Note, signs with an extension of their use on a 2.500- years  time-span ( ~2.500-500 ECB)?

REMEMBER, SHOWING WRITING EVOLUTION NOT IMPLY THAT THE AUDIENCE PERSON WILL/TAUGHT TO WRITE

25.I put under scrutiny an important question and subject to follow; I am looking forward to your opinions with great interest.

Remember, the tablets are real an material and  not coming from somewhere from the virtual reality, and therefore do not hold as copies of others, so there are original, they were made by someone, though, and in this way original and not counterfeit, fakes. 

 Although they have taken note of the similarities between the signs on the TT and those in the sumerian, they have limited themselves to referring quickly and perhaps somewhat superficial only to a few aspects.                                                                             

What completely escaped my understanding is that none of them noticed and did not refer to the fact that the somewhat grouped signs, as if somebody divided them into three categories of historical evolution ??.

For example, a researcher with dozens of publications and books, who has literally exhausted attacking the topic TT from the perspective of all interdisciplinary branches (archeology, history, culture, seminary, etc.) starting from the Neolithic, (if not near the mesolithic) these essential aspects escaped him. Namely the similarities with the Levantine, Aegean, Anatolian and Mediterranean civilizations writings, and maybe worse, not noticed this kind of display of seemingly arranged signs in historical, in temporal evolution, and I am referring here to Mr Marco Merlini                                                                                                                            Image result for tartaria tablets                                                                  Mr. Marco Merlini, from http://www.prehistory.it&nbsp;                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            (and mentioning his master, Prof. Gheorghe Lazarovici)

26. Possible explanation  ?

This spark-idea is mine, but not a recent-one, and could explain TT purpose and who wrote and/or used them . As to be brought at an unknown time and unknown religion by kind of missionary. The round tablet could have written on upper half,                                                                                                                                                                                               Pics from http://aplaceofbrightness.blogspot.com/2008/11/moonlight-in-romania-tartaria-tablets_21.html

an ritualic formula, as out of the signs HP Di b o c , some could be:

greek : HEROS DIVOS = LORD GOD

latin:   HeRus  DeiVOS =    -“-      -“-

Note.                                                                                                                                                         “If” word God  is written, then like kind of Tetragrammaton m not to be pronounced, hidden like the name of YHWEH.(also have here 4 letters !)                                                   Was natural to be hidden from the view of passers-by, especially at the begining of christianism when followers were chased, ??

or a religious christian-like one ( “Our Father” pray: give us our daily bread

greek: HeDe/EDE !  DiDOS/DIDOU ! :Allready,this here,now/GIVE EAT !

latin:  ED/EDE   DeDou(i)=/DeDUI    : Kid-goat/EAT     GIVE!

From ETRUSCANS, VENETI and SLOVENIANS: A Genetic … http://www.korenine.si › zborniki › zbornik05 › belchevsky_rea                                                                                                           The barbarians were the ancient Europeans, non-Greeks, whose speech was not understood by the Greeks. ….. divos > dibos > qibos > qeios > qeos.

From https://www.etymonline.com › word
deva | Origin and meaning of deva by Online Etymology Dictionary
… cognate with Greek dios “divine” and Zeus, and Latin deus “god” (Old Latin deivos), from PIE root *dyeu- “to shine,” in derivatives “sky,

From https://linearbknossosmycenae.com/tag/ionic-greek/&nbsp; by Richard Vallance Janke

didomi-linear-b-archaic-new-testament

(in pictographic tablet we have an kid-goat and something totally unclear, as a human silhuette with hands forward as giving)

…. or you will wonder what other possible formula.                                                                   The presence of the other signs on TT, which apparently do not contain writing, explain it to me by the intention of creating a framework, appearance, but also the feeling and atmosphere of continuity and the transmission of knowledge and religious concepts of a eternal nature, originating in the very distant past.                                                                 The fact that all the signs on TT were used in a place, time or another for writing, raises my suspicions to me. As if that person had access to sources such as the library from Alexandria or the Vatican?.In fact, I shouldn’t be so much, as the priests really had access to such sources and were among the main propagators of culture in general.

IN THE WORK OF FINDING A PLACE, REAL &TRUE IDENTITY FOR TT, WE ALL FOUND SO MANY UNCOMMON, EVEN WEIRD & PUZZLING CHARACTERISTICS THAT THE TOPIC TEND TO MOOVE STEP BY STEP, FROM WRITING & SCIENCE FIELD TO OBJECTS FOUND ON EARTH FALLEN FROM OUTER SPACE.

 

 

 

 

You’re right Mr. A.Zeke supposing that Linear A/B sign Qe is also an ideogram for bread.

January 19, 2021

Excerpts, from http://minoablog.blogspot.com/2010/10/tracking-evolution-of-ka-and-qe-signs.html Tracking the evolution of the ‘KA’ and ‘QE’ signs of Minoan Hieroglyphic and Linear scripts

<<

…..

Is the ‘sieve’ sign (Hie *47) KA or rather QE? Alone from its shape, it is impossible to decide. However, we do have a powerful help on our hand: the pictogram-like syllabary of the Phaistos Disc. Although different from the traditional Hieroglyphics, the disc does present us one clearly discernible ‘cake‘-like sign (Pha *12). While matching with Lin A QE almost perfectly in shape, it is clearly not a sieve. On the other hand, the disc also has another sign (Pha *17), that looks like a Rugby-ball with handles. That is exactly how a (handled) sieve would look if we viewed it from aside. From this point on, the identifications KA = ‘sieve’ and QE = ‘cake’ are rather straightforward. As I mentioned early in this post, there is also a somewhat cake-like ‘full circle’ sign in Minoan Hieroglyphics (Hie *73). It is much rarer than the ‘sieve’ sign, but the QE sign is also much rarer in Linear A, than the KA one (30 vs. 117 occurrances on the HT tablets). This last note essentially closes the circle. Or at least so I hope.

For those who still disbelieve these identifications, I suggest to read (or rather, parse through) the Linear A tablet HT6. It is the only case where sign QE is used as a logogram: and from the context of the tablet, it must refer to some foodstuff. Given that it stands alongside the term PI-TA (pita = Aramaic for ‘bread’), I strongly feel that the ‘cake’-sign actually meant ‘bread’. It should not be forgotten that there exists a sign (Ana *181) within Anatolian Hieroglyphics that looks similar to the Linear A QE sign and the same as Phaistos Disc sign *12. It is actually the Luwian logogram for ‘bread‘!……..>>

============================

You’re right Mr. Zeke, congratulations! As I saw myself corespondences between other (not specifically this one)proto-cuneiform signs and Aegean ones, along with Mr.I.Papakitsos and G. Kenanidis, independently, See

BERLINER BEITRAGE ZUM VORDEREN ORIENT Herausgegeben von Volkert Haas, Hartmut Kuhne, Hans J org Nissen und Johannes Renger  file:///C:/Users/User/Downloads/epdf.pub_changing-views-on-ancient-near-eastern-mathematics.pdf  page 29,  Table “Dry cereal products and rations: ideograms” , sign GUG2a, wich is a circle with 6-10? Dots/strokes. “passim as designation of a grain product, possibly a round bread as opposed to dry grain products of all types, including simple capacity measures, qualified by GAR (cp. MSVO 1,109 obv. iii la and MSVO 1,111 rev. ii la, GUG1a together with GAR as general qualifications); often with indications of the amount of grain used in its production, usually IN18 per unit;…   …”

From https://cdli.ucla.edu/tools/SignLists/protocuneiform/archsigns.html see: GUG2

and GUG2@t

Sumerian Lexicon – IS MUis.muni.cz › jaro2013 › PAPVB_13 › Halloran_version_3 PDFAug 11, 1999 — The Sumerian lexicon has benefitted from several classes at UCLA with Dr. Robert …  << gug: monthly offering>>

Sumerian Beer: The Origins of Brewing Technology in Ancient Mesopotamia* Peter Damerow https://cdli.ucla.edu/pubs/cdlj/2012/cdlj2012_002.html << In the earlier proto-cuneiform documents the first of these signs (GUG2) represented a specific amount of barley processed in a certain form to be distributed as a special kind of ration prepared from grain. Based on later usage this sign is commonly translated as “cake.” >>

+++++++++++++++++++ ? ? Minoan Ka ? ? ++++++++++++++++++++++

https://cdli.ucla.edu/tools/SignLists/protocuneiform/archsigns.html UDU~a

and UDU~b

MASZ,MAS

Translation as Scholarship: Language, Writing, and Bilingual …books.google.ro › books123 Sumerian utu substitutes for udu “sheep,” either a voiced/ voiceless dental alternation or an apocopation (ud for udu). In formulaic terms, utu ≈ udu ..

UTU https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utu#Iconography Version of the ancient star/Sun symbol of Shamash

MASZ,MAS :

This image has an empty alt attribute; its file name is MASZ.jpg


Kingship in the Early Mesopotamian Onomasticon … – DiVAwww.diva-portal.org › diva2:503415 › FULLTEXT01
PDFThousands of Sumerian and Old Akkadian personal names from 3rd millennium BCE … maš ‘goat(‘s kid),’

Egyptian KA: Ka: vital life-force and another part of the soul. The ka continued to live after death and returned to inhabit the mummy. Tombs were known as “the house of the ka” and usually included household objects for the ka to use and offerings of food for the ka to eat.

Vinca script visa Indus script.

January 18, 2021

ATENTIE: – Aceasta pagina are caracter didactic. Prezenta unor tablite sumeriene fragile din lut pe teritoriul Romaniei sau prezenta unei persoane cu cunostinte apropiate de nivelul unui scrib sant extrem de greu de explicat. Nu am cunostinta de vre-o tableta sumeriana proto-cuneiforma sa fie gasita pe teritoriul Anatoliei sau in aria Egeeana, desi se vorbeste ca pentru Anatolia este posibil.Cu atat mai dificila sau inexplicabila, practic imposibila ar fi prezenta unor semne provenite de pe teritoriul Iranului sau Indiei, teritorii inca si mai indepartate. Eu fac o apropiere intre sisteme de scriere, luand in calcul o transferare sau transmisie culturala. – In mod eronat se asimileaza tablitele de la Tartaria cu Civilizatia Vinca-Turdas. Aceasta civilizatie a avut o contributie si preocupari importante in directia si evolutia scrisului.dar din pacate nu s-a finalizat nici macar in proto-scriere. Biblioteca de semne Vinca-Turdas se constituie intr-o colectie de semne numita Scriptura Vinca = Scriptura Danubiana=Scriptura Vechii Europe. Aceasta scriptura precede cu 1.000 de ani (5.000-4.000 IEN) proto scrierea sumeriana (3.000 IEN). Semnele tablitelor de la Tartaria NU APARTIN SCRIPTURII VINCA-TURDAS. Semnele sunt mai noi si par a apartin in cea mai mare masura proto-scrierii sumeriene, eventual usor derivata, modificata din aceasta. Imaginea, din Wikipedia.

History of writing - Wikipedia

Pe mine ma intrigat prezenta unor semne de pe tablitele de la Tartaria, care NU AU FOST FOLOSITE NICIODATA DE SUMERIENI, si aici ma refer la semnele “D” (litera latina de tipar d).Atentie, ma refer la forma D fara nici-un adaos sau deformare.In schimb am gasit semnul D in scrierile Proto Elamita. mai exact scrierea Linear-Elamita si Scriptura Indusului.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_Elamite

TypeUndeciphered
LanguagesElamite
Time period3rd millennium BC
StatusExtinct
Parent systemsProto-writingProto-Elamite?Linear Elamite
List of known Linear Elamite characters.jpg

…vedeti semnele 33 si 41,58. Din https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_Elamite

Linear Elamite - Wikipedia

Din Indus script Bharatkalyan97Bharatkalyan97: February 2018

Bharatkalyan97: February 2018

vezi semnele 307, 311. Din https://www.thenewsminute.com/article/major-discovery-tamil-nadu-s-keezhadi-possible-link-indus-valley-civilisation-109165

Major discovery in Tamil Nadu's Keezhadi: A possible link to Indus Valley  Civilisation | The News Minute

Se vede de la distanta, sau cel putin eu am oservat ca semnele de pe tablite se aseamana in masura mult mai mare cu semnele sumeriene proto-cuneiforme si cu cele ale scrierii Liniare Elamite, mai deloc. Din https://www.boloji.com/articles/10657/a-new-light-on-the-decipherment-of?fbclid=IwAR1ac9nhm_FwWHLAogHnWZ5xcNkYKQ2PWrOahBwSmh7WJDqaRa6kLa6tTjk

Cercetatorii afirma ca semnul “D” are echivalentul fonetic “Dha/Da” www.academia.edu › The_Indus_V… Rezultate de pe web (PDF) The Indus Valley Script: A New Interpretation | Steven C … Meanwhile, the root for ‘bow’ may be realized either as masculine (dhanu), feminine (dhanū) or neuter (dhanus), as well as the variant …

crossasia-journals.ub.uni-heidelberg.de › …PDF Sāvadhānapattra cut in half and results in Brahmi Ḍ; dha is from dhanus ‘bow’, found as the. Indus bow sign.

La noi DD ar fi dha-Dha sau Da-da iar oo ar fi na-na, ra-ra. ar iesi Dha-Dha “tata, bunic in linie paterna” si na-na “mama”

books.google.ro › books Rezultate de pe web New Perspectives on the Origins of Language Claire Lefebvre, Bernard Comrie, Henri Cohen — 2013 · Language Arts & Disciplines Proto-Indic *dadda “father or other elderly relative’:

forums.bharat-rakshak.com › viewt… Out-of-India – From Theory to Truth – Page 187 – Bharat Rakshak 6 apr. 2013 — However the Indus Valley for which the word was used, was … Thatha( Telugu-Grand Father)->Dhadha(Hindi-Grand

shivatempless.blogspot.com › dhadh… 52. DHADHAPURAM – SHIVA TEMPLES 13 sept. 2017 — In sanskrit Dhadha means Bestower (romana distribuitor) and also father

books.google.ro › books East of Indus: My Memories of Old Punjab Gurnam Singh Sidhu Brard — 2007 · Punjab (India) DADA : paternal grandfather .

nana :”mama, cunostinte, intelepciune” https://www.wisdomlib.org/definition/nana?fbclid=IwAR0bw37GzL_NT7Qo576U_fQn2zS2YC6jsmOlBdevSkJGd2joTj3FRJr0m30

Apoi semnele HD http://indusscriptmore.blogspot.com/2011/02/ladder-grid-and-some-enigmatic-indus.html A Ladder, a Grid, and Some Enigmatic Indus Signs

Indus Script & More: A Ladder, a Grid, and Some Enigmatic Indus Signs

http://www.ras.org.in/agricultural_signs_in_the_indus_script

RAS | Agricultural Signs in the Indus Script

L-am gasit ca reprezentand “Da”. S-ar citi >>stg-dreapta>>:Da-Dha ori <<dr-stanga<<: Dha-Da ?

Dar nu are rost sa continuam pentru ca degeaba am gasit echivalentele semnelor din jumatatea superioara a tablitei rotunde (HD DDoo) in scrierile de filiatie indiana, pentru ca restul semnelor nu se mai incadreaza in acest tipar.

DESCOPERIRE !

January 18, 2021

Va rog sa comparati rapid, doua chestiuni “S” (s, de la Sumer) si”M” (m, de la minoic) ……. apoi cu “E” (e, de la Egipt) si cu “T” (t, de la Tartaria);

A. Prima oara am intalnit o referire la semnul “D” in lucrarea monumentalei cercetatoare Denisse Schmandt Besserat, http://www.erasmatazz.com/library/the-mind/history-of-thinking/early-civilization/before-the-greeks/invention-of-writing.html in care facea referire la trecerea de la sistemul de numarare folosind “jetoane” la cel grafic. (coloana IX)

On Marco Merlini's analysis of Tartaria tablets signs | Tartaria tablets

Apoi, semnul a aparut printre semnele proto-cuneiforme, intr-o forma extrem de apropiata:https://cdli.ucla.edu/tools/SignLists/protocuneiform/archsigns.html semnul “GAR”:

Din https://www.zora.uzh.ch/id/eprint/151545/1/Bauer_Englund_Krebernik_1998_Mesopotamien.pdf

<< 6.2.3. Notări de cereale și timp
Relația dintre sistemul de capacitate cerealieră și notațiile de timp a fost de așa natură încât acestea
s-ar putea de fapt să se reflecte reciproc. Dovezile sunt puternice, așa cum a simțit H J Nissen
mulți analiști, din perioada Uruk castronul/bolul cu margine teșită cu o capacitate aproximativa de 0,8 litri
a servit ca model pentru pictograma GAR (ulterior sumerian ninda) și reprezentat în
general o rație de cereale a unui muncitor pentru o zi. Mai departe, ideograma GAR trebuie arătat
corespunzand în general semnului numeric N30.a din sistemul de capacitate cerealieră. În special,
textul MSVO 4, 27.266 demonstrează că cantitatea de cereale reprezentată de GAR // N30.a a fost
o a treia măsură folosită ca distribuție generală a ratiei în perioada arhaică. Acest N30.a este, asa cum știm, l / 30 parte a unității de bază Nl, iar acest Nl este înscris cu semnul u4 pentru a reprezenta o lună administrativă de 30 de zile. ………………..

Numeroase evidente / la fel de bine ca evidența arheologică, susțin presupunerea că în
administrarea arhaică redistributivă cerealiera a fost raționată la persoanele aflate în întreținerea gospodăriei la o rationalizare concordanta cu tradiția ulterioară. Deimel a recunoscut în pictograma
semnului GAR („ninda” sumerian și corespondență akkadiană akalu) ca fiind
bol
; de când discuția lui HJ Nissen despre bolul cu margine teșită / așa-numitul diagnostic purtat
dorind din Urukul Mijlociu, dar cel mai frecvent în perioada Uruk târzie și găsit
în cantitati mari in nivelurile arhaice ale lui Uruk, pe care le-a interpretat a fi un bol de raționalizare a mancarii reprezentat de GAR . Socotelile produselor cerealiere socotite în grane
în general au fost totalizate și reprezentate cu semnul ideografic GAR. Aceste produse con
conțin echivalentul cerealier reprezentat de semnul N1 până la o măsură reprezentată
de către N30c în sistemul arhaic de capacitate cerealiera. Ideograma are un anumit aspect
echivalent metrologic în conturile arhaice / totuși; cu unele variante / ii corespunde
semnului numeric N30.a egal cu 1/30 din semnul N1 în sistemul de capacitate.

(Este, în orice caz, o chestiune de interpretare ca până când semne atât de ambivalente precum U4, în sens ideografic „lumină”, „zi”, „alb” …….N1 a fost înțeles ca unitatea de baza “1” a sistemului sexagesimal.) >>

B. Din https://linearbknossosmycenae.com/2015/02/19/mycenaean-linear-b-units-of-measurement-liquid-dry-weight-click-to-enlarge/

Units of Mesurement in Mycenaean Linear B

Mycenaean-measurement-systems Minoan Language Blog

OBSERVATI CA:

– semnul sumerian GAR pentru unitatea de volum, portie zilnica cereale-paine este extrem de asemanator cu cel minoic pentru volume, acestia din urma simplificandul cumva (nu mai are liniuta din interiorul D-ului). – In mod evident, ambele au o baza fizica: blidul, bolul. Volumul este exact acelasi, 0,8 Litri ! – Acestea i-mi spun mie ca semnul minoic pentru volum este posibil sa fie de inspiratie sumeriana sau transmis, preluat din scrierea sumeriana proto-cuneiforma.

E. Hieroglifa egipteana “T”:”jimbla de paiine” https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcR3DNpnRBMew2SVGMXZwk3XjuK9wRKDrt-xsw&usqp=CAU&nbsp;

Egyptian Hieroglyphic Alphabet translator write your name like an Egyptian  | Egyptian hieroglyphics, Hieroglyphics, Alphabet

Acest semn nu mai reflecta bolul ca la sumerieni ci paiinea. T. Din http://aplaceofbrightness.blogspot.com/2008/11/moonlight-in-romania-tartaria-tablets_21.html Keith Massey

November | 2018 | Tartaria tablets
si
TARTARIA TABLETS.VINCA-TURDAS CULTURE.PROTO-WRITING: Socoteala “sumeriana”,  fazele Lunii in jumatatea superioara a tablitei rotunde ?

Eu mi-am tot pus intrebarea: ce a vrut sa arate, sa transmita sau sa demonstreze autorul inscriptionarilor, sa-si arate vastele cunostinte, sa arate evolutia scrisului !??

SEMNELE “HD” de sus: Semnul GA2 https://cdli.ucla.edu/tools/SignLists/protocuneiform/archsigns.html GA2~a1

https://is.muni.cz/el/1421/jaro2013/PAPVB_13/um/40794229/Halloran_version_3.pdf ñá: basket; house; stable (cf., ñar) [GA2 “cos,casa,grajd

file:///C:/Users/User/Downloads/Vessels_and_other_containers_for_the_sto%20(1).pdf This frame or container sign is related to a similar basket or box, namely the sign GA2a1 (“cos, container“)

Amorite Identity: Symbol MAR in Protocuneiform Sources …hrcak.srce.hr › … I analyzed a corpus of protocuneiform texts and tried to identify within it the … The MAR symbol is essentially a GA2 symbol (“storagecontainer”?) with an  Rom.:”depozitare, container”

https://mugsarsumerian.com/default.htm#a_GA2 GA2 (ga2 / gá), mal, bisag / bisag[704x] (pisan) = basket | [208x] place [#2 behind 120FB 2500x ] | ga2 (ga2) [67x] = house Romana: “cos,loc,casa

ATENTIE, SEMNUL GA2 ESTE IDENTIC CU SEMNUL KU ! https://cdli.ucla.edu/tools/SignLists/protocuneiform/archsigns.html KU~a

https://is.muni.cz/el/1421/jaro2013/PAPVB_13/um/40794229/Halloran_version_3.pdf ku: to base, found, build; to lie down (reduplication class) [KU archaic frequency: 64; concatenates 3 sign variants] Rom.:”a pune baza,construi, intinde

Riches Hidden in Secret Places: Ancient Near Eastern Studies …books.google.ro › books… word /ku(g)/ is usually translated as “shiningbright, clean, pure,” or “holysacred,” 

Semnul GAR https://cdli.ucla.edu/tools/SignLists/protocuneiform/archsigns.html GAR

GAR citeste NINDA ratie,paiine

Acum incep sa se lege niste lucruri.. semnele de sus le-am intrpretat anterior: GA2 + GAR= “COS PAIINE” sau Ku GAR=Ninda Ku =ei mananca paiine

Sumerians and Akkadians in their ethno … – E-Periodicawww.e-periodica.ch › cntmng PDFnorthern logograms, as in sag.rig?, sag.gis.ra, quoted above, and in ninda ku. “they eat bread

The Organization of the Anatolian Local Cults During the …books.google.ro › booksKAŠ ” beer bread ( ? ) ” NINDA.KAŠ KBO II 8 II 14 , IV 9 ‘ , 19 ‘ , 25 ‘ ; KUB LIV 90 r.c. 5 NINDA.KU , ” sweet bread ” Rom:”paiine dulce” ?turta dulce?

https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=it&u=https://books.openedition.org/editionsmsh/7778%3Flang%3Den&prev=search&pto=aue  In other words, when the soul of the dead is approached in the sacrificeand the God Favorable Day, the first is constantly offered “sweetened loaves” (NINDA KU 7

…..sau alternativ GA2 GAR=GA2 NINDA :”depozitare cereale“; “intinde paiine

Ku(g) GAR=Ku NINDA:”(ofranda)sacra paine

Apoi din semnele DDoo, unde: – primul D pare a fi semnul GAR (ninda,portie de cereale-paiine pentru un om pentru o zi, 0,8 Litri) ; (GAR=N30.a=1/30 N1).Posibil chiar a intentionat sa faca semnul exact, dar nu i-a reusit, in special ca a uitat sa ridice stilul de pe suprafata moale tablitei si a lasat o zgarietura ? – al doilea reproduce semnul N1: “1” care reprezinta portia de mancare pentru o luna 30 x 0,8 =24 Litri. ! In mod normal sumerienii il faceau numai prin imprimare/imprintare/amprentare, https://cdli.ucla.edu/tools/SignLists/protocuneiform/archsigns.html 1(N01@r)

– iar “oo” este semnul NIGIN:”Total” https://cdli.ucla.edu/tools/SignLists/protocuneiform/archsigns.html 2(LAGAB~a)= NIGIN

Din V12.COMPARATIVE ENCYCLOPEDIC DICTIONARY OF MESOPOTAMIAN …books.google.ro › booksNierime (Nierim): Sumerian. Adjective. Wrong … TotalNiginSumerian. Noun. Totality. NiginSumerian. Adverb. All together. Nigin: … The whole amount. Nigin: …Romana: (Nierim): sumeriană. Adjectiv. Greșit … Total. Nigin: sumerian. Substantiv. Totalitate. Nigin: sumerian. Adverb. Toti impreuna. Nigin: … întreaga sumă. Nigin: …

Poate intrebati, ce fel de hrana? Pai: https://cdli.ucla.edu/tools/SignLists/protocuneiform/archsigns.html ASZ2

Origin of the Sumerian Name and Sign for ‘Wheat’ – John a. Halloran …fr.scribd.com › document › Origin-of-the-Sumerian-Nam…Origin of the Sumerian Name and Sign for ‘Wheat – John a. … The sign ASZ 2 , ’emmer‘, “GRAU EMER

Acum se contureaza doua ipoteze privind ce s-a avut in intentie cu semnele: 1. Cineva a vrut sa arate altcuiva semnele de baza pentru a tine evidenta hranei : Semnul As semnificand “grau” +GAR:”portie, ratie” de hrana pentru o zi=ninda=cereale,paiine=0,8 Litri + semnul numeric N1:echivalentul numeric al hranei pentru o luna=24 Litri + semnul pentru “total” 2. Este vorba de o ofranda constand in cereale, (sub forma nepreparata sau preparata pentru comunitate, paiine ?) adusa zeitatilor, unde cantitatea este nesemnificativa: semnul “grau”+ semnul “portie”+ “numarul N1″=echivalentul hranei pentru o luna+semnul intreg,total”. Spre aceasta varianta ne indreapta interpretarea semnelor din stanga “HD”.

https://cdli.ucla.edu/tools/SignLists/protocuneiform/archsigns.html 1(N30~a) acesta este semnul N30.a=1/30 N1

Exemplu real de socoteala sumeriana din faza pre-cuneiforma=folosind semne proto-cuneiforme, faza care o precede pe cea a scrierii propriu-zise cuneiforme: Din http://mathscitech.org/articles/mathematics-uruk-susa

The Mathematics of Uruk and Susa (c.3500-3000 BCE) « Mathematical Science &  Technologies

Oricum, semnele i-mi arata in mod evident, ca provin mai degraba dintr-o zona Siria, sud-estul Anatoliei, aria Egeeana, unde pe parcurs, au suferit o usoara modificare, adaptare.

50+ ciudatenii ale tablitelor de la Tartaria si tot atatea semne de intrebare.

January 14, 2021

History of writing - Wikiwand

De fapt sunt o serie de dovezi,evidente plus o serie de abateri,ciudatenii si aspecte unele neexplicabile si altele greu de explicat. Incep prin a le enumera, nestiind acum daca sunt fix 101, mai multe sau mai putine.Pentru usurinta intelegerii le voi grupa pe capitole:

VECHIMEA

1.Vechimea estimata dupa unii este aceea ca provin din 5.300 IEN, dupa altii 2.400-2.700 IEN si tot felul de alte date.De fapt nu poate fi in acelasi timp si o data si cealalta. 5.300 IEN iese complet din calcul, dupa cum se va vedea mai jos.

2. Vechimea 5.300 IEN a fost “dedusa” si nu determinata, presupunand ca tablitele au aceeasi varsta cu oasele gasite in apropiere si a caror varsta a fost determinata (cica 5.300 IEN). Sa dai (transferi) varsta unui artefact altuia pe considerentul ca probabil a fost pe undeva pe aproape mi se pare bizar si profund nestiintific.

3. Retineti ca primele forme de scris au aparut la distanta mica una de alta in Sumer si Egipt, in jurul datei de 3.500 IEN. Aceste forme de scris preced scrisul propriu-zis si se numesc proto-scrieri. Au urmat apoi scrierile proto-elamita si scriptura din Valea Indusului.

4. Intrucat tablitele au fost supuse unui tratament termic in cuptor, la o temperatura necunoscuta, (intentii bune, rezultat bun pe de o parte ca s-au intarit, dezastruos pe de alta parte). Pentru ca urmele de carbon din lut sau degradat si nu mai poate fi posibila vreodata determinarea varstei, cel putin nu prin metoda C-14.

CIRCUMSTANTELE GASIRII

5. Nu se stie cine a fost cel care a pus mana, le-a atins primul.

6.Nu exista nici-un martor al momentului exact al gasirii.

7.Nu se stie pozitia exacta a oaselor si a tablitelor in cadrul complexului ritualic.

8.Nu exista o fotografie in care sa apara atat oasele cat si tablitele, nici vre-o schita.

SEFUL SANTIERULUI ARHEOLOGIC

9. Acesta a fost arheologul Nicolae Vlassa, dansul nefiind pe santier nici in momentul descoperirii nici dupa descoperire in cursul acelei zile.

10. Nu s-a aflat de descoperire decat dupa cateva zile.

11. Nicolae Vlassa dupa ce s-a aflat de descoperire a fost de negasit de catre ziaristi. Apoi nu stim din ce motiv a fost reticent in relatari.acest ultim aspect poate fi de inteles cunoscand agresivitatea multor ziaristi cand vor sa tranga repede si cu orice pret materiale=informatii pentru articole.

12. Nicolae Vlassa a fost unul din primii care a afirmat ca semnele par a fi sumeriene, atentie, precizand exact perioada Jemdet Nasr.

13. Nu am cunostinta si pare-se nimeni ca Nicolae Vlassa sa fi studiat si sa aiba cunostinte avansate de asirologie, sumerologie si mai ales proto-scriere, neexistand posibilitatea sa asimileze in foarte scurt timp, (de ordinul zilelor) un asemenea volum de cunostinte cu dificultate mare. In plus trebuia sa aiba acces (rapid?) la biblioteca de semne sumeriene proto-cuneiforme, care noi presupunem/admitem ca a rezolvat-o. Afirmatia dansului asemenea unui specialist de top cu expertiza in domeniu, fara a exista la baza un asemenea suport fiind direct hilara.

STRATUL, CULTURA CAREIA II APARTIN TABLITELE.

14.Nu se stie cu exactitate din cele cca 28 de artefacte in total, care din ce strat provine.Cu atat mai mult cu cat telul are o portiune inclinata si care a fost in mod constant supusa revarsarii si eroziunii apei Muresului.

15.Telul contine in total vre-o 5 culturi, fiecare situata in alt strat, respectiv alta adancime. Exista o serie lunga de discutii pe aceasta tema intre diferiti arheologi.

16. Arheologii au observat ca artefactele au un caracter eterogen, fapt ce denota ca unele apartin unei culturi si altele alteia.

SEMNELE TABLITELOR VISA SEMNELE SCRIPTURII VINCA-TURDAS

17. Unii cercetatori, foarte putini agreeaza sustinerea domnului Marco Merlini, conform careia tablitele de la Tartaria apartin culturii vinca Turdas si reprezinta un exemplu de proto-scriere a acestei culturi.

18. Spun aici in mod hotarat, ca desi cultura Vinca Turdas are o bogata contributie la aparitia si evolutia scrisului, aceasta s-a oprit o idee inainte de a ajunge chiar si numai la faza proto-scrierii.

19. Nu exista nici-un singur artefact care sa sustina, si mai putin sa demonstreze ca este purtetor al unei proto-scrieri.aceasta ar presupune transmiterea unui mesaj intr-o forma bruta, rudimentara, generala.

20. Se poate vorbi doar de Scriptura Vinca-Turdas, adica de o colectie de semne. asa cum este de ex. Indus Script. ambele nedemonstrate inca ca sunt proto-scriere ori scriere.

21. Semnele au folosit la ceva, insa la ora actuala ne scapa modul lor de agregare si ce anume cum si ce informatie transmiteau. probabil semne legate de diferite produse, cantitati si producatori/destinatari ?

DE CE NU SA AJUNS NICI MACAR LA O FORMA INCIPIENTA DE SCRIERE VINCA-TURDAS

22. Explicatia de baza si majoritara a cercetatorilor la care subscriu, este aceea ca societatea vincana nu a fost suficient de complexa, stratificata si dezvoltata in plan social economic si religios. Adaug eu pentru o mai buna intelegere, a fost o societate de tip Edenic.

23. O alta explicatie, a mea este ca nua fost suficient timp, desi paradoxal si din pacate nu a mai lipsit mult.

24. O alta explicatie, tot a mea este aceea ca ei au pornit cu elemente preponderent liniare (un gen de cuneiforme daca vreti, digitalizare inainte de a-i veni vremea). In schimb sumerienii au pornit de la pictograme care exemplificau notiunile de baza, si pe acestea mai apoi le-au abstractizat in cuneiforme si firesc si implicit au inceput sa le ataseze semnificatii fonetie. Au aplicat principiul cunoscut sub numele de rebus.Sa zicem ca ideogramei de capra care incepe cu C i-au atasat sunetul C.

TABLITELE PRIVITE CA UN GRUP, COLECTIE UNITARA DE ARTEFACTE INSCRIPTIONATE

25. Prin tipul de scriere cele 3 tablite se distanteaza unele de altele, prezentand tipuri diferite de scris. Voi explicita pe larg acest aspect, un pic mai incolo.

26. Aceasta ciudatenie nu are echivalent in istoria arheologiei si a scrisului. Deci nu se cunoaste in lume un caz similar. In schimb se poate gasi in epoca moderna in muzee,scoli si au scop didactic.

MATERIALUL DIDACTIC IDEAL=PERFECT

27. Un ochi neavizat, neformat, este bulversta de gramada de semne noi pentru el, care nu au nici-o noima. intr-o buna masura, chiar savanti de prestigiu au fost parca fermecati, nereusind sa realizeze urmatoarele: – La o privire mai atenta acuiva care cunoaste multe sisteme de scriere si sute de semne, apare evident faptul ca fiecare tablita contine cumva semne de acelasi tip-categorie: – Tablita cu caprita contine pictograme pure – tablita dreptunghiulara gaurita contine semne folosite in diferite scrieri ca ideograme,logograme. – tablita rotunda contine preponderent semne care au fost folosite in diferitebscrieri ca silabe ori litere

28. Astfel, daca un student sau profesor din ziua de azi ar vrea sa arate elevilor sai sau unui public evolutia scrisului, nu exista o cale mai buna decat sa exemplifice in acest mod.

29. Apare intrebarea: cine si cand putea avea acces atat la semne vechi cat si la unele noi ? raspunsul logic este cineva care a trait in perioada in care au aparut acelea noi, deci cu cat mai aproape de timpurile noastre cu atat avea acces mai facil la toate semnele.

30. Cine a fost, din ce perioada exacta, si cu ce scop concret si exact a facut asta? Nu putem sti.

EVIDENTE=CIUDATENII REZULTATE DIN ANALIZA SEMNELOR

31. Semnele de pe cele trei tablite luate in totalitate se prezinta mai degraba ca o colectie, adunare-adunatura, gramada de semne.

32. Aceste semne au fost folosite in diferite arii si diferite perioade de timp.

33. Per global, la o privire rapida si in aparenta, dar si la o analiza atenta, cea mai mare apropiere este de cea a semnelor sumeriene proto-cuneiforme.

34.Urmeaza apoi in privinta asemanarii scrierile Egeene si Anatoliene.

35. O serie de semne=ideograme sumeriene, in special unele foarte importante din punct de vedere cultural sau religios se regasesc in forma asemanatoare in primele scrieri Egeene.

36. Doi cercetatori de top greci I.Papakitsos si G.Kenanidis afirma si sustin prin mai multe lucrari, ca la baza tuturor scrierilor Egeene ar fi stat o scriere proto-Lineara. Aceasta a aparut mai mult decat ca o influenta a scrieriisumeriene proto-cuneiforme ci direct este transpunerea si adaptarea acesteia in aria Egeeana. Pur si simplu, o parte a colonizatorilor Cretei, unii din primii minoici au fost migranti sumerieni timpurii !

37. In cercetarile mele am gasit acelasi aspect si in diferite pagini am venit in sustinerea acestei ipoteze venind in completarea exemplelor dansilor cu mai multe exemple proprii si poate inca si mai consistente.

38. Semnele reflecta in mare forma semnelor proto-cuneiforme sumeriene, dar nu sunt exact ca cele sumeriene ale acelei perioade specifice.aceasta se datoreaza filogeniei tuturor sau multor sisteme de scris care au originea, trunchiul in scrierea sumeriana proto-cuneiforma.

39. Daca exista semne care se pot regasi in forma apropiata si nicidecum exact asa in scrierea proto-cuneiforma sumeriana (ex.”H”), exista in schimb unele care nu exista deloc cu aceasta forma (vezi semnele “D”).

SCRIBUL ERA SCRIB DE MESERIE?

40. mai multi oameni de stiinta (A.Falkenstein A.A.Vaiman si altii…inclusiv eu care nu sant om de stiinta) opineaza ca autorul avea vagi cunostinte de scris si de fapt chiar daca in extremis ar fi fost sumerian, nu stapanea scrisul.

TEHNICA SCRISULUI SE ABATE DE LA CEA SUMERIANA

41. Fapt constatat de oamenii de stiinta sus-mentionati, prin faptul ca daca a vrut sa scrie un numar, a incercat sa-l imite, dar a pus unitatile in stanga si zecile in dreapta. Si inca multe alte aspecte precum impartirea spatiului in coloane s.a.m.d.

SEMNE APARENT FOARTE MODERNE

42. Semnele din jumatatea de sus a tablitei rotunde, “HD DDoo”se regasesc in totalitate in literele alfabetului arhaic grec si pot reprezenta “H/E D DDoo” sau :”H/E R RRoo”; deasemenea literele alfabetului venetic “HR RRoo”. Atentie, dar nu numai din aceste alfabete, as putea aminti cele Anatoliene(ex. alfabetele cariene) si cel Iberic-Turdetan.

SEMNE CARE NU POT FACE CASA COMUNA SAU SA APARA IMPREUNA

43. Ideogramele sumeriene proto-cuneiforme nu pot face casa comuna cu semne aparute mult mai tarziu: – semnul H exista sub aceasta forma prezenta in tablite intr-o serie de scrieri ulterioare: Linear A si B (PA3), veche canaanita, feniciana, veche ebraica (Het),alfabetele etruscan, vechi latin, venetic (H), turdetan (Bu)…inclusiv pana la runele maghiare. – semnele “D” a reprezentat litera D sau R intr-o serie de alfabete: canaanit “dalet” , alfabetele arhaice grecesti “D/R”

IN CE PERIOADE AU FOLOSIT OAMENII ACESTE SEMNE, CAND SI IN CE MASURA AU FOST ACCESIBILE PRIVITORULUI UMAN ?

44. Semnele sumeriene proto-cuneiforme au fost folosite in perioada 3.500-2.800 IEN. Dupa aceea nu au mai fost vizibile nimanui, stand ingropate sub 3m de moloz rezultat din constructia succesiva atemplelor din Uruk, pana in 1925 cand au fost descoperite de arheologul englez Leonard Wooley.

45. Semnele scrierilor Cretana Hieroglifica (2.200-2000 IEN) si Linear A (2000-1500 IEN) au putut fi vazute doar de minoici in perioadele sus mentionate, ramanand ascunse pana in 1894… cand le-a descoperit arheologul britanic Arthur Evans.

46. Deci in mare si buna masura, majoritatea semnelor nu au putut fi vazute decat ori in perioada 3.500-1.500 IEN. ori dupa 1894…. Dar!..

47. Datorita semnelor moderne prezente pe tablite, intervalul este impins cumva dupa 500-300 IEN (perioada folosirii alfabetelor arhaice grecesti, sau difuzia lor in aria Mediteraneeana). Vorbesc de semnele prezente in jumatatea superioara a tablitei rotunde.

REZULTATELE PANA LA ACEASTA ORA PRIVIND INTERPRETAREA SEMNELOR DE PE TABLITE

48. Aici si la acest punct ne intalnim cu o tragedie sau dezastru. Unde se dovedeste mai degraba ca toata evolutia stiintei nu a folosit mai la nimic.

49. Abordarea ca tablitele fiind de factura total-complet sumeriana, iese din ecuatie (A.Falkenstein, A.A.Vaiman).Mie nu mi se pare foarte inteligenta nici abordarea ca fiind quasi-sumeriene daca se opreste fara a ajunge la o explicare finala. Ca dovada ca o serie de cercetatori, desi au realizat ca tablitele nu sunt original sumeriene, in lipsa de altceva le-au interpretat ca fiind sumeriene. Fara ca sa faca mai departe analize sau speculatii, nici sa le relationeze cu scrierile Egeene. Le-au abordat cumva in mod superficial, nealocandu-le suficient timp si au expediat rapid subiectul. Ca ar fi, dar de fapt nu ar fie tocmai sumeriene, ca scribul nu prea stia sa scrie si punct, terminat subiectul.

50. O surpriza placuta a fost lucrarea asirologului bulgar Rumen Kolev, care chiar daca a calcat hotarat pe urmele citatilor precedenti (asimilat, luat 80%?), totusi probabil fara ca sa realizeze a reusit sa interpreteze semnele de asemenea maniera incat include si ideogramele, semnele specifice scrierilor Egeene.Oricum, m-a ajutat sa realizez ca exista un gen de transmisie, continuitate ori unitate culturala a ariei Egeene cu cea Orientala (sumeriana).

51. Ce sa mai zic, ca ma jenez, un cercetator care a scris zeci de articole cu doctorat in materie (Civilizatiile Vechii Europe= Danubiana, Vinca-Turdas, Scriptura Vinca-Turdas, tablitele de la Tartaria), domnul Marco Merlini, a analizat, a luat in manuta, rasucit si intors pe toate fetele fiecare semn, gasindu-i paralele fiecaruia in cate 15 scrieri, ca in final sa nu poata agrega si concretiza nimic. Sa ajunga la concluzia ca e absolut sigur ca scrie ceva, este un mesaj acolo dar este atat de abscons, ezoteric incat numai cei care au facut semnele, numai cei din acele timpuri le stiau semnificatia. Mare si mare pacat. Posibil cel care a facut aceste artefacte desi nu si-a dorit sa-si bata joc de posteritate, de cititorii de dupa el din viitor, fara ca sa vrea a reusit.

— pauza de masa…sunt curios daca ajung la 101, dar este o vorba studenteasca, la o adica “mi se rupe” ca o fi 78 sau 103 —–

SIGNS “HD” ON TARTARIA TABLET

December 27, 2020

From Moonlight in Romania: The Tărtăria Tablets http://aplaceofbrightness.blogspot.com/2008/11/moonlight-in-romania-tartaria-tablets_21.html

Said “H” because the closest to nowday’s letter are archaic greek Heta/Eta and greek and latin H.In fact in sumerian proto-cuneiform we have the signs:

http://www.oocities.org/proto-language/SumerianSignValueRegister.htm ga2, 458

http://www.oocities.org/proto-language/ProtoLanguage-Monosyllables.htm

TARTARIA TABLETS.VINCA-TURDAS CULTURE.PROTO-WRITING: Sumerian influence on  Aegean writing

<< K?AThe Sumerian sign (Jaritz #458) depicts a ‘tubular basket‘; a variant, #458a, tapers toward the top; both have top-covers; both presumably and read ga2 (among others). Another recorded reading for it is pisan, which means ‘basket’ but perhaps also ‘*shallow tray‘.An archaic variant form for Sumerian sign above (Jaritz #458),  Jaritz #458a, looks very much as if it could be the ‘head’ without the hair and neck we see in Jaritz #15 under K?XA; and therefore might be a sign for ‘jaw’; but it also may be just another shape of ‘basket’.>>

https://cdli.ucla.edu/tools/SignLists/protocuneiform/archsigns.html sign “GA2

and sign “GUR” :

For the right sign, the closest is https://cdli.ucla.edu/tools/SignLists/protocuneiform/archsigns.htmlGAR

Note. there are also another sign as “BUR”

but that one above “GAR” is the closest (has not so fewer additional strokes inside) https://cdli.ucla.edu/tools/SignLists/protocuneiform/archsigns.html sign “BUR”

SO WHAT COULD BE THEIR MEANING ?

— sign GA2/ *gá meaning —–

www.academia.edu › Vessels_and_o… (PDF) Vessels and other containers for the storage of food according … 1 – A selection of container signs in the proto- cuneiform record. … scribed within the box- shaped container is purely graphical. sign GA2 .

is.muni.cz › PAPVB_13 › Ha…PDF Sumerian Lexicon – IS MUNI 11 aug. 1999 — ñá: basket; house; stable (cf., ñar) [GA2 archaic frequency

is.muni.cz › PAPVB_13 › Gl…PDF a gal[help]; a gal[strong]; a gar[defeat] – IS MUNI 1. cella 2. bedroom 3. a ritual building 4. the sanctuary … Akk. damšillu “(a kind of cucumber )?; plant name” … GA2: ga2. 1. house 2. station (of the moon)? 3. room 4. house-lot. 5. estate.

www.academia.edu › Interpreting_J… (DOC) Interpreting John.A. Halloran’s Sumerian Lexicon … A. Halloran’s Sumerian Lexicon – version – 3. … *gá: basket; house; stable (cf., gar) [GA2 archaic frequency: 125; concatenation of 5 sign …

—- sign GAR/ninda meaning —-

Shulgi Sumerian – Beer types and ingredients in the Old …www.facebook.com › shulgisumerian › posts › beer-ty… Emmer is also well attested in protocuneiform documents, though not as an … This sign combination consists of the sign GAR, originally representing a barley ration ….It has been mentioned already that the sign GAR is commonly interpreted as a term “ninda” designating “bread.

Between Feasts and Daily Meals. Towards an … – Refubiumrefubium.fu-berlin.de › fub188 › Seiten111_141 PDFprotocuneiform sign that represents a bevelled-rim bowl: Beveled-rim bowls used for the disbursement of rations represented by the sign GAR which could be used to designate a ration of a certain size or, in a semantically defined sign combination, an institution.

https://www.naturepagan.com/early-cuneiform-signs-f-k GAR, JAR: n., storeroom; form, appearance (to be + to send) [GAR archaic frequency: 409]. v., to store, accumulate; to deliver, deposit; to put, place, set down upon; to make, establish

INDUS SCRIPT From http://indusscriptmore.blogspot.com/2010/11/uncommon-indus-signs-from-tri-fork-to.html

In proto-cuneiform, a “D” shape with a single internal stripe is GAR, which came to mean “storeroom; to form.” …. There is another “D” whose meaning one should consider, this one found among the Luwian hieroglyphs.  In this case, the rounded side faces downward, with the flat side up.  Its meaning is CAELUM, “sky.”  This “D” shape contains a single stripe paralleling the flat side and four short strokes perpendicular to the stripe.  These last four join the stripe and the flat side of the “D.”  Variants of the proto-cuneiform GAR also include short strokes at a 90 degree angle to the long internal stripe.  The “b” variant has two and the “a” variant three.Proto-Elamite contains a single sign that is essentially “D” shaped, again with the rounded side downward, flat side upward (M378).  There are, in addition, two stripes inside the “D” that parallel the flat side, each stripe also extending a bit beyond the edges of the “D” shape.  Also, inside the basic “D” shape is another, smaller “D” shape that shares the same flat side.  The meaning of this sign is unknown.Linear B includes a single sign resembling a backward “D.”  It has no internal stripes and must represent the crescent moon, as its meaning is “month.”  One might assume that this simpler sign could not share the same meaning as the Indus sign, because the ancient Greek symbol has no internal striping.  And what could internal stripes represent, in a depiction of the moon?  However, internal striping may not be meaningful in itself in the Indus symbol.  Many signs in this system contain internal striping, as do occasional pictorial elements.

========= both signs GA2 and GAR ===

basket; house; stable;. 1.house 2. station (of the moon)? 3. room 4. house-lot. 5. estate. + Ninda=bread, storeroom; form, appearance; to store, accumulate; to deliver, deposit; to put, place, set down upon; to make, establish

It seems that kind form of property, storage,HOUSEHOLD + FOOD deliver,exhibit,operating

128.97.154.156 › search › archival… Rezultate de pe web CDLI-Archival View – CDLI – Cuneiform Digital Library Initiative 4. abgal |GA2xGAR|

https://www.ancient.eu/article/221/the-mesopotamian-pantheon/ ABGAL – The seven sages in Sumerian mythology sent to the earth by Enki at the beginning of time to give human beings the sacred `me‘ (laws) of civilization. They were also known, by the Akkadians and Babylonians, as The Apkallu or the Apkallu Fish and are depicted with the body of a fish and the head of a man or with the torso of a fish and human arms, legs and head, sometimes with and sometimes without wings.  In the Babylonian tradition, the Apkallu also appear as Griffins or simply as humans with wings. The Abgal carry a bucket and a cone of incense for purification purposes. By name, they were Adapa (the first man) Uan-dugga, En-me-duga, En-me-galanna, En-me-buluga, An-enlilda and Utu-abzu.

ro.scribd.com › doc › rechnik-sume… Rezultate de pe web rechnik sumerskog | Nature – Scribd 18 feb. 2011 — F. Karahashi, Sumerian Compound Verbs 75. a tal[engulf?]; a … GA2. GAR: ĝa2ĝar; ga2gar. ĝeš [PENIS] GA2: ĝa2; ga2.

is.muni.cz › PAPVB_13 › Gl…PDF Rezultate de pe web a gal[help]; a gal[strong]; a gar[defeat] – IS MUNI bisagnindagar [BASKET]. GA2.GAR.GAR: bisagninda-gar; pisag-ninda-gar. 1. bread basket

www.academia.edu › قاموس_المفيد… (DOC) قاموس المفيد لطالب السومرية | Farouk Nasir Al-Rawi – Academia … AB) KID) underground basket weaver water { freq. … pisaĝninda-ĝar 6} [N] (GA2-GAR– ‫نوع من‬ GAR) ‫منشدي أو مؤبدي‬ bread basket

CONCLUSION: FOOD, GRAIN CROP-BREAD – (offering ?) related RITUAL … notice the sacramental bread=bun/wafer/loaf of bread shaped clay tablet

(PDF) Akkadian Loanwords in Sumerian Revised | Vladimir …www.academia.edu › Akkadian_Loanwords_in_Sumerian…This count yields 3, 7% of Akkadian loanwords for Sumerian words beginning … AHw: 888) (Adj) CaCCiuC 143. gagartum = kakkartum ‘a type of bread‘ (MAD 3: ..

<???>gr. ARTOS=”breadhttps://bouquetdejoie.com/2017/01/25/artos-greek-celebration-breads-week-2/

Artos: Greek Celebration Breads – Week #2 – Bouquet de Joie – Finding Joy  in Life

SACRUL in TABLITELE DE LA TARTARIA

December 19, 2020

Majoritatea cercetatorilor, mai mult decat presupun, sant de acord ca tablita rotunda contine in jumatatea sperioara un continut, respectiv mesaj cu caracter sacru. https://tb.ziareromania.ro/Tablitele-de-la-Tartaria—cea-mai-veche-scriere-a-lumii-descoperita-in-Romania-/11d8fc1499881e962/400/225/2/70/Tablitele-de-la-Tartaria—cea-mai-veche-scriere-a-lumii-descoperita-in-Romania-.jpg

Tablitele de la Tartaria - cea mai veche scriere a lumii descoperita in  Romania? | Mobile

Aceasta pentru ca doua din tablite sant gaurite, gauri prin care trecea un snur si destinate a fi purtate in jurul gatului. Astfel tablita dreptunghiulara ACOPEREA COMPLET jumatatea superioara a celei rotunde, fiind ascunsa de privirile trecatorilor. Eu, cu educatia timpurilor moderne si multe limitari in gandire, ma asteptam cumva ca acea portiune sa contina un mesaj legat direct sau indirect de vreo zeitate. Foarte multi cercetatori au vazut in secventa DDoo doar un numar (1,1,10,10=”22″), (adevarat nu scris dupa tipicul sumerian unde zecile sant in stanga si unitatile in dreapta). In acest sens exista intrpretarile precedente a 3-4 oameni de stiinta (si a mea).De la inaltimea stiintei lor, au facut una dupa alta doua greseli impardonabile.Sau sa fim mai blanzi, au fost “vrajiti” de asemanarea semnelor cu cele pentru numere. 1. Au confundat (si asimilat) amprenta=semnul imprimat pentru numarul 1/”dis” cu reprezentarea/forma sa bidimensionala trasata, D. Semne gen D, litera (d mare de tipar) trasata (si nu imprimata) pentru numere, in aceasta forma nu au fost folosite deloc de sumerieni. 2. Au asimilat semnele O trasate ca cercuri ca fiind fiecare numarul 10, cand sumerienii faceau semnul prin imprimare, deci era disc plin. https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Karenleigh_A_Overmann/publication/301221553/figure/fig9/AS:639266971471876@1529424531807/Proto-cuneiform-tablet-W-9578-g-from-Uruk-IV-3350-3200-BC-with-numerical-impressions.png

Proto-cuneiform tablet (W 9578,g) from Uruk IV, 3350-3200 BC, with... |  Download Scientific Diagram
In stanga avem cate doua numere 14(10,1,1,1,1) iar in dreapta 28(10,10 si de 8 ori 1)

Semnele “O O” trasate sunt de fapt semnele (tot trasate) LAGAB + LAGAB= NIGIN https://cdli.ucla.edu/tools/SignLists/protocuneiform/archsigns.html “LAGAB” :

In schimb au folosit 2 semne trasate, care chiar seamana cu litera D.Probabil datorita dimensiunilor mici sau urmare a unui progres, nu au mai trasat liniutele din interior. CELE DOUA SEMNE “D” SUMERIENE PROTO CUNEIFORME TRASATE SANT: Semnul GAR care se citeste Ninda:”ratie de cereale/paiine” https://cdli.ucla.edu/tools/SignLists/protocuneiform/archsigns.html

Repet desi nu a existat in realitate la sumerieni un asemenea semn D trasat “gol”.In lucrarile precedente am facut referire si la alt semn asemanator BUR.

———- Semnul GAR citeste NINDA ———-

Sumerische Glossare und Indizes (SGI) Belegsammlung ˆgar [PLACE(loc)] wr. ˆgar; ˆgá; ˆgá-ar; ˆg ́aˆgar; ˆgarar; mar; ˆg ́aˆgarar “to put, place, lay down;to give in place of something, replace”;(a pune, așeza; a da în locul a ceva, înlocui “)

ePSD Didtionary GAR: former,retired (fost, trecut,retras) ; to heap up (a aduna) ;http://psd.museum.upenn.edu/epsd/epsd/e4362.html ninda [BREAD] (11296x: ED IIIa, ED IIIb, Ebla, Old Akkadian, Lagash II, Ur III, Early Old Babylonian, Old Babylonian, unknown) wr. ninda; inda “bread; food” Akk. akalu / pâine; alimente

www.bulgari-istoria-2010.com › …PDF Sumerian Cuneiform English Dictionary 12013CT – bulgari-istoria 5 mai 205 mai 2000 — NINDA2 | ĝar (gar) [2505x] = place, to put, lay down; to give in place of something, replace; to posit (math.) | niĝ2 (nig2 ) loc, a pune, întinde; a da în locul a ceva, înlocui; a poziționa (matematică)

——– Doua semne GAR alaturate, adica GAR-GAR ———-

Un cercetator, Patrick C. Ryan in lucrarea sa Sumerian Archaic Sign Table presupune ca doua semne D alaturate

This image has an empty alt attribute; its file name is image-4.png

au echivalentul fonetic sumerian “MIN,MAN”.Apoi echivalentul fonetic Sumerian al acestui semn ar fi 940, man?; min (cu semnul intrebarii adica dansul presupune, propune…)min Acest cercetator nu este epigrafist sau sumerolog, este lingvist. El merge pe firul timpului inapoi in timp inspre o presupusa proto-limba.Nu stiu cum a gasit aceasta secventa de semne presupus de el sumeriene DD daca le-a vazut undeva(nu cred) sau le presupune asa in imaginatia sa bogata si prolifica. Suficient este ca fiind singurul loc unde am gasit-o si bazanduma ca oricum este om de stiinta ar trebui sa o iau in consideratie.Pare ca dansul considera cumva ca MIN care inseamna 2 este compus din doua semne D care fiecare reprezinta 1 ?? In orice caz sumerienii foloseau reduplicarea nu numai pentru a exprima pluralul ci si pentru a obtine expresii noi. Exemplu: Semnul GAR inseamna la sumerieni ” a pune,intinde” insa semnul reduplicat GAR-GAR inseamna actiunea precedenta repetata de mai multe ori, rezultand “acumulare,a aduna

———— sa luam intai acest Gar-Gar de mai departe ——–

105.235.201.125 › Linguistic Afrasian Phonology Cover Though Afrasian plays a critical role in the reconstruction of Proto-Nostratic … A. Semitic: [Proto-Semitic (reduplicated) *gar-gar- ‘to rumble, to roar, to growl, (Rom.: a bubui, a vui, a mârâi )

www.academia.edu › Bomhard_A_… (PDF) Bomhard – A Comprehensive Introduction to Nostratic … ‘rolling, round, bent, twisted, turned’ A. Proto- Afrasian *g¦ar- ‘to roll, to revolve’: Proto-Semitic (reduplicated) *gar-gar‘to roll, to revolve‘ ..(Rom.:a se rostogoli, a se învârti)

Vainahi, as a population of the Terek Valley and mountainous areas, they appear in Strabo’s “Geography” (1st millennium BC) under the name “gargarei” (from the Hurrian “gargar” – “relative”). At that time, the Hurrian population of Karabakh was called by the same term. (Rom.: in huriana, “ruda“)

Sum. gar ‘to heap up’, gargar ‘accumulation‘, PIE *gar- ‘to collect, heap’, Greek ageiro (from *a-ger-yo) ‘to gather, collect’, agorà ‘assembly, place of assembly, market-place’, gargara ‘heaps, lots, plenty Rom.: in sumeriana, gargar:”acumulare” iar in greaca veche, gargara:”gramezi, multe

sefarad.revistas.csic.es › articlePDF A note on the Sumerian expression SI-ge4-de3/dam – Sefarad were established using the reduplication verb gar (i.e. ga2-ga2– … put‘ or ‘to place‘ {sakãnum) ^^ but also ‘to heap up’, ‘to store’ Rom: folosind verbul de reduplicare gar (adică ga2-ga2- … “a pune„ sau „ a plasa ”{sakãnum) ^^ dar și „ a aduna ”, ” a stoca

ga’iššupsd.museum.upenn.edu › epsd › akkadian-toc-G gar [HEAP] wr. gar “to heap up” (a aduna)

Sumerische Glossare und Indizes (SGI) Belegsammlung gar-gar
gargar [ACCUMULATION] wr. gar-gar “accumulation” (acumulare)
gar HEAP (morman, gramada)(4 instances: Early Old Babylonian [1]; Old Babylonian [2]; Hellenistic [1].) Base
forms: gar; gar-gar. 1. to heap up (a aduna)

sikipsd.museum.upenn.edu › epsd › english-toc-Hgu gar [PILE UP] wr. gu2 gar; gu2 gar-gar “to pile up” Rom.:”a aduna” Akk. gurrunu guru [HEAP] wr. guru7; gur11 “to heap up” Akk. kamāru; karû guru [STORE] wr. guru7 “grain …

springer.com › content › pdf << (AHw “schichten, haufen”/”straturi,gramezi“),to which correspond the Sumerian term gar.gar ..>>

www.jstor.org › <<stable artificial language in ancient mesopotamia — a dubious … – JStor gar.gar is a common logogram in mathematical texts for kamarum,. “to accumulate“>>

Rezultate de pe web Rabies and Rabid Dogs in Sumerian and Akkadian Literature – JStor Grammatical Texts,43 the paradigms of gar-gar = nup- puhu, “to be angry, blow up” a fi furios, a arunca în aer

Doua semne GAR adica GAR GAR=semnul URI: oi.uchicago.edu › pdf › sume…PDF Rezultate de pe web the sumerians – Oriental Institute – University of Chicago glossary of Sumerian words from the bilinguals known in his day … southern boundary; that the district Uri, usually equated with. Akkad / limita sudică; districtul Uri, echivalat de obicei cu. Akad

————– Semnul BUR. ————– Am constatat cu surprindere ca si BUR este legat de mancare.

ePSD Dictionary rechnik.sumerskog bur [BOWL];(food) offering, sacrifice 2. meal(-time) 3. (stone)
bowl 4. a priest rom:[BOL ; (hrană) ofrandă, sacrificiu 2. masă (timp) 3. (piatră) castron 4. un preot]; BUR2: a container?(container); BUR: [GLOW(stralucire)] bur2..light (lumina) 2. to glow, shine; “to blow; light up; rise” (a străluci; “a sufla; a lumina; creştere”) ;bur [GRASS(iarba)] bur [LOCUS] a cultic location (loc cultic);bur [SPREAD(rspandire)]; BUR2:to release, free 2. to reveal 3. to spread out, cover; “to release, free” “to spread; (a elibera, gratuit 2. a dezvălui 3. a se întinde, acoperi; „A elibera, liber” „a răspândi;)bur [TEAR(rupere)];bur [TREE(copac)]a tree;bur [UNIT] a unit of volume(a surface measure)”

Sumerian Cuneiform English Dictionary 12013CT – bulgari …www.bulgari-istoria-2010.com › Rechnici › Sumerian_Cu….. BUR [85x] = (food) offering, sacrifice; meal(-time); (stone) bowl; / ofrandă (de hrana), sacrificiu; masa (timp de); castron (din piatră)

http://mugsarsumerian.com/default.htm BUR [85x] = (food) offering, sacrifice; meal(-time); (stone) bowl; a priest

——– Culmea, in situatia in care savantii ne explica ca precedentul semn GAR provine de la forma castronului cu margini/buze duble/tesite. —— wikipedia beweled rim bowl vezi si https://ro.pinterest.com/pin/468022586275613811/ double rim bowl

Beveled rim bowl - Wikipedia

vezi si https://ro.pinterest.com/pin/468022586275613811/ double rim bowl

Atunci mi-am zis: daca hieroglifa egipteana T https://www.mummies2pyramids.info/hieroglyphics/hieroglyph-letter-t.htm

Hieroglyphic Symbol for the Letter T ***

inseamna “jimbla de paine” si avem nu unul ci doua semne sumeriene proto cuneiforme legate de paine si mancare, am presupus ca exista o forma neatestata si negasita in alte inscriptii care le sintetizeaza pe toate si ca urmare a unei evolutii apare ca un D simplu. ===================================================== In prezenta o sa fac o interpretare (nefacuta pana acum) luind in considerare de aceasta data acceptia BUR.

Apoi exista un gen de corespondenta bur<>gur Etymological Dictionary of Akkadian Volume 1/1 – De Gruyterwww.degruyter.com › downloadpdf › titleentries with certain or likely Sumerian etymology, which he prepared during his stay … short vowel would drop): kurru < gur “kor” vs. pūru < bur “bowl/rom.”castron

www.bulgari-istoria-2010.com › …PDF Sumerian Cuneiform English Dictionary BUR [ 85x] = (food) offering, sacrifice; meal(-time); ( stone) .

https://docplayer.org/68553162-Ur-dynasty-tablets-dungi-bur-sin-gimil-sin-and-ibi-sin-james-b-nies-ph-d-leipzig.html << BUR ‘Release’, ‘pay (eliberare,plata)>>

—————— Ce inseamna doua semne bur: ——————

A Dictionary of the Bible: Volume I, Part I (A – Cyrus)books.google.ro › books… << Ur, Eridu, Erech, and Nisin ; and, like the middle kings of Ur (Ur-gur and Dungi), they style themselves ‘ king of Ki-Ingi and Ki- burbur (Sumer and Akkad).>>


Sumerian Hymnology: The Ersemma – Page 178 – Google Books Resultbooks.google.ro › books
If this is the case, then the most appropriate meanings for BUR.BUR are damu, “to stagger,”/rom.: a se clatina and dilu A, “to wander about in despair.”/a rataci in disperare

https://biblicalstudies.org.uk/pdf/expository-times/015_11_514.pdf <<(No. XL), has published a syllabary from which we learn that the ideograph BUR-BUR, besides
representing Uri or Ur, Assyrian Akkadu, and Tilla, Assyrian Urdh11 or Ararat, also represented
Ari, Assyrian Amurru. Amurru, the land of. the Amorites, denoted Syria and Palestine, more
especially the mountainous part of them
, and in Ari I see a Sumerian (?) reproduction of the
Canaanitish har, ‘mountain.’
/ //rom.:ideograma BUR-BUR, în plus reprezinta Uri sau Ur, Asirian Akkadu și Tilla, Asirian Urdh11 sau Ararat, de asemenea, reprezinta Ari, Asirian Amurru. Amurru, țara. Amoriții, denotau Siria și Palestina, mai mult
în special partea montană a acestora, iar în Ari văd o reproducere sumeriană (?) a Canaanitului har, „munte”.

https://arutkural.tripod.com/sumstudies/gudea-tbuild.html <<sum. bur-bur Ta. puri : to  understand; Ta. pul: knowledge. Also Ta. piri: to open up , separate etc.>>

http://www.sitchiniswrong.com/AnunnakiFalkensteinEnglish.pdf <<The majority of the supporting documents reference only limited doings of the A.
The citations which report that the A. go to, or haste to (bur-bur), a cultic site or to a god
[Sumerian text], contain the underlying idea that the A. have their dwelling places in
different locations, and from there, come together at various locations. >> (Rom.:Majoritatea documentelor justificative se referă doar la lucrări limitate ale Anunna
Citațetele care raportează că A. se îndreaptă către sau se grăbesc (bur-bur), spre un sit cultic sau un zeu
[Text sumerian], conține ideea de bază că A. își au locurile de locuit în diferite locații și, de acolo, se reunesc în diferite locații.)

A (sumér-szabir-szkíta-kelta)-magyar Európafiles.conifertreasury.org › … << egy szemita központosulással szembesülünk, amelynek iránya Sumer, a sumér … Tehát a “BUR-BUR” elnevezés földrajzilag igen nagy területre értelmezhető >>(Rom:…ne confruntăm cu o centralizare semitică în direcția Sumer, sumerian. Deci, numele „BUR-BUR” poate fi interpretat geografic pentru o zonă foarte mare …)

… semnul BUR-BUR=inseamna Uri..dar si Ur hurrians and subarians – Oriental Institute – University of Chicagooi.uchicago.edu › pdf › saoc22 THE ORIENTAL INSTITUTE OF THE UNIVERSITY OF CHICAGO … oi.uchicago.edu … Akkad,” whence, since the sign URI is supposedly composed of BUR.BUR

A Study of Sumerian Words for “Animal Hole”_百度文库wenku.baidu.com  … Let the water sources (bur-bur) of the Buranuna be equal to the River.

https://archive.org/stream/cu31924028555757/cu31924028555757_djvu.txt <<the ordinary sign uru meaning “city,” {Amurru p. 113) ; the sign uru^’^ meaning “whirlwind, city;” the sign BUR-BUR ^uri {Amurru p. 113), etc., are all used to represent the name of the god Uru {^=Amurru). In short, these many signs standing for the pronunciation Uru or Ur as the name of a god in early Babylonian literature, and also in the late syllabaries, where such obsolete deities’ names of the past were preserved, unquestionably repre- sented the name of the god under consideration.>>

Sumerian Lexicon – Sumerian Language Page 11 aug. 1999 — Beyond these words, two- thirds of this lexicon now … bůr: a square surface measure = 6.48 hectares = 18 iku … capacity; whole (cf., kilib and gur4-gur4) [NIGIN archaic. ——— NIGIN pronunta niñin ——————– <vezi imediat sus, echivalent cu?>gur4-gur4 (?)

http://psd.museum.upenn.edu/epsd/e4234.html Old Babylonian niĝin [ENCIRCLE]; niĝin “to prowl, roam; to enclose, confine; to encircle; to search; to turn; to return; to go around; to tarry”  (Rom.: a rătăci, a cutreiera;a închide; a înconjura; a căuta; a intoarce; a se intoarce; a merge în jur; a rămâne ” )

books.google.ro › books Astrology and Cosmology in the World’s Religions Nicholas Campion — 2012 · Social Science The process of reproduction resulted in the creation of the first generation of gods, including … up of an-ki, heaven and earth; the Sumerian an.ki.nigin.na translates as “the entire universe” (intregul univers)

https://is.muni.cz/el/1421/jaro2013/PAPVB_13/um/40794229/Halloran_version_3.pdf niñin(2): n., enclosure, circle; capacity; whole (cf., kilib and gur4-gur4) [NIGIN archaic frequency: 11].
v., to halt, turn away; to turn round; to surround; to assemble; to pen up cattle; to wander about; to circle; to
make the rounds / a se opri, a se întoarce; a se întoarce; a inconjura; a asambla; a crește vitele; a rătăci; a incercui; a face rondul (usually níñin[LAGAB] for hamtu form and niñin or ni10-
ni10[LAGAB.LAGAB] for marû form) (ní;ne4, ‘fear’, + ñin, ‘to go’).
niñin(2,3): vertigo (as a disease); faintness, dizziness; thirst.
nìñin, ni9: premature or stillborn child; malformed child; monstrosity.
niñin5,7,8,9, nimen(3,4,5); naña: district, province.

——————- Interpretare: —————————— Semnele H D = semne BUR?/GAR?+GA2/citit Ku= ofranda(de mancare),sacrificiu; sacru,sfant + a pune,alimente, paiine

Sumerian Lexicon – Sumerian Language Pagewww.sumerian.org › sumerianPDFAug 11, 1999 — ku: to base, found, build; to lie down (a baza, a găsit, a construi; a te intinde pe jos)

Sumerian Lexicon – Sumerian Language Pagewww.sumerian.org › sumerian << kug: n., silver; precious metal; money; noble ( argint; metal pretios; bani; nobil) [ku, ‘to base, build'(a baza,construi)+ aga(3), ‘diadem, circlet, crown'(diadema,cerculet ,coroana)] … adj., bright, pure; white; sacred, holy (luminos, pur; alb; sacru, sfânt)>>

———- Semnele : D D si o o=semnele “GAR-GAR/Bur-Bur si OO=LAGAB LAGAB”; ——— citeste: GAR-GAR Nigin sau Bur-Bur Nigin 1.nigin:district,adunare=comunitate“+ “acumulare,a aduna” 2.nigin:”total,toata,intreg” + “(cereale),paiine” 3.nigin:“district,adunare=comunitate“+ bur-bur:”Acadiana?,Amorita(Siriana,Palestiniana)” 4.NIGIN:”din districtul Nigin“+bur-bur:”sumerian,Sirian,etc.” 5.nigin:cresc vite, ratacesc, m-am oprit“+ bur-bur:” sumerian,akadian,sirian 6. nigin:”cutreier,ratacesc, m-am oprit,etc.”+(la) bur-bur:”sursa de apa” 7. nis+min(2x20=40)=nimin/nimen : 8.1.”district,provincie” (desi DD numai seamana cu 2) 8.2. 40, (numarul sacru a lui Enki)

CONCLUZIE: Semnele “HD“: Ritual de oferire a unei ofrande/sacrificiu. Semnele “DDoo”: (Facut de un) sumerian,sumerieni din orasul NIGIN, sau amorit din Siria sau alta parte. De aceea este portiunea aceasta acoperita pentru ca formula este sacra si la fel si ritualul in sine.Cu partea stanga e clar; pentru semnele DDoo, din combinatiile/propunerile de mai sus, una iese cumva in evidenta:

URI,UR(gar-gar,bur-bur) NIGIN: comunity,roaming around the city/ “comunitate sumeriana,akadiana, siriana/cutreierând prin oraș“; a aduna/painea toata

oi.uchicago.edu › docs › cad_sPDF Rezultate de pe web assyrian dictionary – Oriental Institute – University of Chicago << sa-bi-i m urul bdqili … bad.nigin = sah-hi-rat du-ri, uri.nigin = sah-hi-rat URU >> etern in jurul orasului, in jurul zidurilor.

books.google.ro › books The Class Reunion—An Annotated Translation and Commentary on the … J. Cale Johnson, Markham J. Geller <<.. bad.nigin = sah-hi-rat du-ri= “eternal roaming,going around the walls‘ 218 tiru nigin= sah-hi-rat URUroaming around the city‘>>bad-duru;”city wall” “bad3″: “city wall” or “fortification”.  “cutreierand in jurul zidurilor orasului“,”umbla aiurea orasul

=========== ! i n t e r e s a n t, 1.! ==================

Semnele “HD” de pe tablita sant semnele GA2-Gar

Sumerian Cuneiform English Dictionary 12013CT – bulgari …www.bulgari-istoria-2010.com › Rechnici › Sumerian_Cu…PDFMay 5, 2000 — The niftiest ‘Sumerian Cuneiform English Dictionary‘ in the university world: … GA2 (ĝa2 / gá), mal, bisag / bisaĝ [704x] (pisan) = basket | [208x] 

Sumerian Lexicon – Sumerian Language Pagewww.sumerian.org › sumerian PDF The Sumerian lexicon has benefitted from several classes at UCLA with … pisań(2/3), pisan(2/3): (open) basket; box, chest; frame Rom.: coș (deschis); cutie, CUFAR; cadru

I A- N V E D E T I C E A R E N E N E A E N K I I N MA N U T A : Din HumanPast.net Sumerian tablets https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/-9SxRO7vWB7xeT-SXWQ0VsHzV_PFwA4t9n-YF1AlsyfhlMfKPr6T30hGIKEqtpMvPf5H31DN2vW1l3CxAQflG5qnzz8vqm37

Sumerian Tablets

—————————————– Semne DDoo citire: 1, 1, 10, 10 > 2; 20 in sumeriana Min+ Nis, min.nis

ORBIS BIBLICUS ET ORIENTALIS 1m Auftrag der Stiftung …is.muni.cz › phil › PAPVB_13 › aBZL 61 v, Lgbd ll Z33QQLSU 261 C Lgbd II Z33 AA min , nis (puzur.

Altbabylonische Zeichenliste – Scribdwww.scribd.com › document › Altba… https://docplayer.org/149480780-Altbabylonische-zeichenliste-der-sumerisch-literarischen-texte.html  363 MAN = min3, niš (puzur2)

https://etcsl.orinst.ox.ac.uk/edition2/signlist.php sign name: u u CITIZEN ;sign: >> ;ETCSL Values: men 5 , min 3 , puzur 2 —————————-

165 puzur secret of the mouth pu.pdf https://www.academia.edu/35527906/165_puzur_secret_of_the_mouth_pu_pdf

<<The Akkadian scribe manipulated the word puzur >puzur Rom.: Scribul akkadian a manipulat cuvântul puzur puzur (buzur bur 3 buru3) puzur [SECRET].  Then the scribe created a bunch of homophones expanding the language out of thin air from asingle Akkadian word for secret: Rom.: Apoi, scribul a creat o grămadă de omofoni care extindeau limbajul “asa din aer”, dintr-un singur cuvânt akkadian pentru secret: puzur Homophones   puzur = U puzur 2 = U.U puzur 3 = U.ZAG puzur 4 = KA×GAN2@t.ŠA puzur 5 = KA×GAN2@t This arbitrary homophones proves that Sumerian was not a tonal language because all these cognates derived from a single Akkadian word. Rom.: Acest omofon arbitrar dovedește că sumeriana nu a fost o limba tonala, deoarece toate aceste înrudite derivate dintr-un singur cuvânt akkadian. “U”: bur 3  bur [UNIT].buru3 (see full listing)

U.U”:

This image has an empty alt attribute; its file name is 5-0d8be41de7.jpg

man (men5 mim3 min3 mina3mam mana)man [COMPANION]. min3 min [TWO].niš (neš nis)niš [TWENTY]. puzur 2 (buzur 2) puzur [SECRET]. tab4 tab [COMPANION].tab [DOUBLE].Full listing.

www.bulgari-istoria-2010.com › …PDF Sumerian Cuneiform English Dictionary 12013CT – bulgari-istoria 5 mai 2000 — Proto Cuneiform Signs (cdli) . … 2 [“2” / two numeric] | TAB [740x] = to double; to repeat; companion, partner, friend | cf.

<< Patrick C. Ryan a scos, (numai el stie de unde!) Sumerian Archaic Sign Table Semnul:

This image has an empty alt attribute; its file name is image-4.png

Phonetic value/Valoare fonetica:” MIN, MAN” >> I N T E R P R E T A R E: semnele DD=2=man:”COMPANION” dar in acelasi timp si puzur2:”secret” + semnele “oo“=NIGIN=”total,whole”/rom.: “TOTAL, CU TOTUL…”

C O M P A N I O N ? S E C R E T ? T O T AL , C U T O T U L , I N T E G R A L , P E V I A T A

Translations of whole adjective : întreg “whole, entire, complete, full, round, total ; tot all, whole, livelong; integral :”integral, integrate, whole” Translations of livelong adjective trainic lasting, durable, strong, solid, livelong, tough tot all, whole, livelong lung long, lengthy, protracted, extensive, vast, livelong


is.muni.cz › PAPVB_13 › Ha…PDF Rezultate de pe web Sumerian Lexicon – IS MUNI 11 aug. 1999 — The Sumerian lexicon has benefitted from several classes at … buzur(2,4, 5), puzur(2,4,5): safety, security; secret, mystery;  Rom.: siguranță, securitate; secret, mister puzur [SECRET] (5x: Old Babylonian) wr. puzur4; puzur5; puzurpuzur2 “secret, shelter; protection, aegis, shadow, shelter” Akk. puzru .. Rom.: secret, adăpost; protecție, egidă, umbră, adăpostpuzur[cavity] – ePSDpsd.museum.upenn.edu › epsd puzur [CAVITY] wr. puzur3 “cavity, cave” Akk. huppu. [1], cuneiform |U.ZAG|, puzur3. 1. cavity, cave. Akk. huppu “hole, pit?” Rom.:”cavitate,pestera”,”gaura,groapa?”

Summerian Dictionaries – Real Paranormal Huntersrealhuntersofevil.wikifoundry.com › page › Summeria… … BUZUR = God of the Deep Mines (God Who Solves Secrets) …. si asa exista suspiciunea ca tabletele au fost aduse de un comerciant, metalurgist sau prospector de metale/?miner? …

Apoi , noi avem 1,1, 10,10 si nu 10,10,21,1, asa cum scriu sumerienii numerele cu zecile in stanga si unitatile in dreapta !,caz in care am avea “22”.Atunci nu putem citi altfel pe 2 si 20 decat:

Sumerian Grammar – Page 65 – Google Books Resultbooks.google.ro › books 40: [nimin], [nin]: Powell 1971, 48, CAD E 255 erbä lex. … [nimin], glossed ni-min, ni-mi-in, ni-in, may be explained as a reduced form of *[niš-min) “two twenties”. Rom.: doi-douazeci” (“40”)

Enki – Wikipediaen.wikipedia.org › wiki › Enki Enki is the Sumerian god of water, knowledge (gestú), mischief, crafts (gašam), and creation …Beginning around the second millennium BCE, he was sometimes referred to in writing by the numeric ideogram for “40“, occasionally referred to as his “sacred number“.

temple1 – Angelfirewww.angelfire.com › gatestobabylon › temple2 The gods An, Enlil and Enki are not merely grandfather, father and son in the … The god Enki was called both Shanabi (two-thirds) and Nimin (forty in Sumerian).

========== ! i n t e r e s a n t, 2. ! ========

Troy – motherland of the Turks – AzerNewswww.azernews.az › culture <<Gargar is an important ethnomym which ties the Mediterranean to the Turkic world. A town by the name Gargara was situated near Troy. A province under this name is mentioned in the “Iliad“. To these can also be added an old Italian province by the name of Gargaria which is surely connected with the Trojan migration to Italy. As was mentioned above, the identical names – Gargar/Karkar were spread in the Turkic onomasticon as the names of tribes (Azerbaican, Turkmenistan), mountains (Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan), and as a personal name in “Manas“, a Kirghizian epic >>

bolcheknig.ru › russkijj-yazyk › ilia… Iliad Veresaev read. Hesiod: Work and days. Translation by V … <<…. A fierce dispute arose between the three goddesses: the Queen Hero, the wife of Zeus, Pallas Athena, the goddess of wisdom, and Aphrodite, the goddess of love and beauty. Each demanded an apple for herself, as the most beautiful. They could not get along and turned to the handsome Tsarevich Paris, the son of the Trojan king Priam, to resolve the dispute. At that time, he was herding herds on Gargar, one of the peaks of Mount Ida near Troy. Both sides immediately led the matter straight. Hera promised Paris power and wealth, Athena – wisdom and glory, Aphrodite – the love of the most beautiful woman in the world.>>

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gargara Gargara (Ancient GreekΓάργαρα) was an ancient Greek city on the southern coast of the Troad region of Anatolia. It was initially located beneath Mount Gargaron, one of the three peaks of Mount Ida, today known as Koca Kaya (39°35′10″N 26°32′03″E).[1] At some point in the 4th century BCE the settlement moved approximately 5.8 km south of Koca Kaya to a site on the small coastal plain near the modern villages of Arıklı and Nusratlı (39°32′22″N 26°32′46″E), at which point the previous site came to be known as Old Gargara (Ancient Greek: Παλαιγάργαρος).[2] Both sites are located in the Ayvacık district of Çanakkale Province in Turkey. Mount Gargaron Mount Gargaron has been identified with the mountain today called Koca Kaya (Turkish Great Rock), a western spur of Mount Ida with a maximum elevation of 780 m.[3] The poet Epicharmus (fl. 540 – 450 BCE) refers to the mountain as “snowcapped” (ἀγάννιφα), and the Etymologicum Magnum (ca. 1150 CE) knew a tradition according to which the inhabitants of Old Gargara moved to their new site to escape the cold of their old home.[4] In Homer’s Iliad it is said to have had an altar to Zeus at its summit, and hence is a place the god frequently visits.[5] In one passage Zeus is said to have come to Mount Gargaron from Mount Olympos to view the battle between the Trojans and the Acahaeans, about 50 km NE of here.[6] In writers of the 1st and 2nd century AD such as Statius and Lucian Zeus is said to have abducted the Trojan prince Ganymede from Mount Gargaron while he was hunting in the nearby forests.[7] Lucian also represents the Judgement of Paris as taking place on Mount Gargaron rather than in its more traditional location further to the east above Antandrus.[8] The anonymous author of On Rivers thought that Gargara was Mount Ida’s previous name, while the Latin poet Valerius Flaccus used it as a learned way of referring to Ida.[9] The Etymologicum Magnum explains the name of Gargaron either as deriving from the verb γαργαρίζειν (‘to gargle’) on account of the springs thought to bubble up on the summit (an inference taken from Homer’s reference to ‘many-fountained Ida’ in conjunction with Gargaron), or as deriving from γαργαρέων (UVULAuvula‘) on account of the mountain’s shape.

LOEB CLASSICAL LIBRARY ; 154 Stephanus of Byzantium, Places and Peoples Gargara: a city in the Troad1 on the promontory of Ida, known as Palaegargarus (Old Gargara), described as an Aeolian city by Strabo and Hecataeus. Alcman uses a feminine form Γάργαρος, Gargarus. Leleges used to live there.

Wikipedia GARGAREANS In Greek mythology, the Gargareans, or Gargarenses, (Greek: Γαργαρείς Gargareis) were an all-male tribe. They copulated with the Amazons annually in order to keep both tribes reproductive. Varying accounts suggest that they may have been kidnapped, raped, and murdered for this purpose, or that they may have had relations willingly. The Amazons kept the female children, raising them as warriors, and gave the males to the Gargareans.The Gargareans are held by some historians to be a component of the ancestry of the Chechen and the Ingush peoples, and equivalent or at least related to the Georgian name Dzurdzuks.[3] Adrienne Mayor wrote about the Ghalghai/Gergar and mentions an old Ingush legend about a Maiden’s Tower located in the Assa gorge in Ingushetia.Strabo wrote that “… the Amazons live close to Gargarei, on the northern foothills of the Caucasus mountains“. The Amazons were attributed to the Circassians via the root mazeGaius Plinius Secundus also localizes Gargarei at North of the Caucasus, but calls them Gegar.[5] Some scholars (P.K. Uslar, K. Miller, N.F. Yakovleff, E.I. Krupnoff, L.A. Elnickiy, I.M. Diakonoff, V.N. Gemrakeli) supported that Gargarei is an earlier Ingush ethnonym. Jaimoukha suggests that the myth might have been a nod to the similarity between Circassians and Durdzuks, despite their very different languages. The Ancient Greek chronicler Strabo mentioned that Gargareans had migrated from eastern Asia Minor (i.e. URARTU Urartu) to the North Caucasus.[6] Jaimoukha notes that Gargareans is one of many Nakh roots- gergara, meaning, in fact, “kindred” in proto-Nakh.[7]

Cuvantul grec care este asemanator are in plus si sens asemanator cu gar-gar : γάργαρα Βικιλεξικό , τά, A heaps, lots, plenty, (“grămezi, multe,“) ἀνδρῶν Aristomen.1; ἀνθρώπων Alc.Com.19

books.google.ro › books Rezultate de pe web Sievers’ Law and the History of Semivowel Syllabicity in … P. J. Barber, Peter Jeffrey Barber — 2013 · History we find what seems to be a denominative γαργαίρω ‘swarm, teem with (people, corpses, or objects of various kinds)’ (Cratin., Ar., Sophr. , . In Istorie găsim ceea ce pare a fi un roi denumit γαργαίρω, plin de (oameni, cadavre sau obiecte de diferite tipuri) ”

translate.enacademic.com › γάργαρα γάργαρα from greek 🧬 – Academic Dictionaries and Encyclopedias Derivatives: γαργαρίς θόρυβος H., γαργαίρω ` swarm’ (Com., Sophr.); γαργάρται λίθοι αὑτοφυεῖς (H.)? With another vowel γέργερα πολλά .. Rom:γαργαίρω ` “roi”

CONTINUTUL MISTERIOS, “EZOTERIC”? AL TABLITEI ROTUNDE DE LA TARTARIA.

December 16, 2020

Trei sau patru dintre savantii de anvergura mondiala, aici fac referire directa doar la doi: Adam Falkenstein si Aizic Abramovici Vaiman, specializati in proto-scrierea sumeriana (care foloseste semne proto-cuneiforme) sau aplecat asupra acestor tablite. Este vorba de jumatatea de sus care contine semnele: HD    DDoo

Semnele HD sant semnele sumeriene proto cuneiforme. Poza din Moonlight in Romania: The Tărtăria Tablets Keith Massey

A Place of Brightness: Moonlight in Romania: The Tărtăria Tablets

– Semnul “H”=Buzur,puzur=siguranta,securitate,secret,mister,BUZUR:zeul minelor adanci(zeul care dezleaga secretele) si/sau “Ku”=”stralucirea(metalelor)”, – si semnul D=˹DIŠ : “Unu,unul,un,o” ) SEMNIFICATIILE DE MAI SUS MA DUC CU GANDUL LA UN PROSPECTOR DE METALE SUMERIAN... Imaginea din Moonlight in Romania … placeofbrightness.blogspot.com

Cand au ajuns la jumatatea de sus a tablitei rotunde, pusi in fata secventei “D D o o” bineinteles ca au stiut ca sumerienii figurau cifrele numai prin imprimare, si deloc prin trasare. Ex. un D mic imprimat”1”, D mare imprimat 60; disc imprimat=10. Cercetatorii de care am facut vorbire au luat rapid si zic eu neingaduit de superficial semnele ca cifre si au vazut probabil 1, 1,10,10 =22                                                                                DAR SEMNELE NU SANT CIFRE, cel putin semnele OO nu sant obtinute prin imprimarea cu un bat rotund si nu reprezinta 10,10 ci sant trasate  si exista ca atare (trasate) printre semnele proto-cuneiforme

Din  Proto-cuneiform tablet (W 9578,g) from Uruk IV, 3350-32 https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Karenleigh_A_Overmann/publication/301221553/figure/fig9/AS:639266971471876@1529424531807/Proto-cuneiform-tablet-W-9578-g-from-Uruk-IV-3350-3200-BC-with-numerical-impressions.png

In dreapta avem de doua ori 10 10 + de 8 ori 1=228

Pe tablita avem semnele inscriptionate numai prin trasare (latina cuneus=cui). Probabil stiau ca exista semne “o” trasate si nu imprimate si ca nu exista pe nici macar o singura tablita sumeriana cu vre-un semn “D” trasat.  In lipsa de alte idei (si de altceva mai bun), au interpretat totusi toata secventa DDoo a fi  un numar. Si asta pentru faptul ca aspectul acestor semne imprimate este asemanator unor D-uri si O-uri. Au spus in schimb ca nu sant semne original sumeriene si ca atare posibil nu au fost trasate de un Sumerian (get-beget), cel putin nu unul bun cunoscator al tehnicii scrierii. Dublarea, cuvintele repetate este o caracteristica a limbilor “primitive” agglutinative care nu au flexionarea substantivelor si verbelor.Erau folosite de sumerieni in primul rand ca sa exprime pluralitatea, dar vom vedea mai incolo ca nu numai pentru aceasta.Acestor limbi li s-a dat o denumire hazlie “banana languages”, pentru ca apar secvente de genul ba-NA-NA. Asa de exemplu este limba Egeeana minoica ce apare in scrierea Linear A nedescifrata, in primul rand datorita dificultatilor de a depista acea limba. Exemplu a-SA-SA-ra-me.  

Eu am ramas constant ideii afirmate pentru prima oara de Dl.Marco Merlini (la care majoritatea cercetatorilor subscrie, inclusive eu) ca aceasta portiune, jumatatea superioara a tabletei rotunde era gandita intentionat de a fi ferita privirii trecatorilor. Motivul zice dansul ar fi faptul ca are un continut esoteric, inteleg eu sacru. Desi nu trebuie dupa parerea mea sa fie in mod absolute obligatoriu un continut sau mesaj din sfera religioasa.De aceea este lipsit de sens ca cineva sa ascunda aiurea niste cifre. Zilele acestea, sa sar in sus de bucurie, am gasit in Sumerian Archaic Sign Table by Patrick C. Ryan semnul 940: 940; 940=924+924

Apoi echivalentul fonetic Sumerian al acestui semn ar fi 940, man?; min (cu semnul intrebarii adica dansul presupune, propune…)min Acest cercetator nu este epigrafist sau sumerolog, este lingvist. El merge pe firul timpului inapoi in timp inspre o presupusa proto-limba.Nu stiu cum a gasit aceasta secventa de semne presupus de el sumeriene DD daca le-a vazut undeva(nu cred) sau le presupune asa in imaginatia sa bogata si prolifica. Suficient este ca fiind singurul loc unde am gasit-o si bazanduma ca oricum este om de stiinta ar trebui sa o iau in consideratie. Semnul DD e presupus de dansul a fi compus din doua semne 924 :   https://www.oocities.org/athens/Forum/2803/SumerianArchaicSignTable.htm

eugenrau:!????    Pai seamana semnul 924 cu un semn D !??    De ce nu a considerat ca DD este compus din doua D-uri, care reprezinta fiecare “1” ??: Acekasi autor, Patrick C. Ryan, http://www.oocities.org/proto-language/SumerianValuesMeanings.htm   Determining Phonetic Values (Readings) for Sumerian Signs Associated With Certain Meanings Sign #1 , which in later cuneiform is a simple horizontal stroke with a wedge (cuneus) on its left side, is a descendent of, at least, two archaic Sumerian signs. The first, shown at the left, it will be noticed, is a simple vertical line 

aš (SSAsh-1-1.jpg)
Înlocuirea imaginilor obiectelor obișnuite cu pene și linii cuneiforme și orientarea lor diferită înseamnă că cuneiformul este, cu cea mai mare dificultate, să fie utilizat la determinarea naturii originale a reprezentării, care, vom vedea, este o cheie a originii sale fonetice și semasiologice.
diš-2 (SSDish2-1-1b.jpg)
*ana3(acesta) unul *, ‘unu; unic’ *de/il(e/i), ‘unu; singur; numai; singur; unic’ *de/2, ‘unu’ Sumeriana era cel mai frecvent scrisa în coloane verticale, de sus în jos, care se desfășurau de la dreapta la stânga.
Semiții, care au adoptat-o ​​dureros, au preferat să citească mai mult pe orizontală decât pe verticală și au întors tabletele cu 90 ° spre stânga, cu rezultatul că vârfurile semnelor sumeriene erau cele mai la stânga pe linia orizontală. Aceasta a dus, de asemenea, la o lectură forțată de la stânga la dreapta (în limbile semitice asiriană și babiloniană), spre deosebire de practica sumeriană de citire de la dreapta la stânga.

 Apoi din  SUMERIAN SIGN VALUE REGISTER – OoCities http://www.oocities.org › proto-language › SumerianSignVal.  https://www.oocities.org/proto-language/SumerianSignValueRegister.htm?202014#M

 Apoi echivalentul fonetic Sumerian al acestui semn 940, ar fi http://www.oocities.org/proto-language/SumerianSignValueRegister.htm man?; min (cu semnul intrebarii adica dansul presupune, propune),unde man este, Sumerian Lexicon Version 3.0 by John A. Halloran https://archive.org/stream/jstor-592733/592733_djvu.txt

mana, mìna, man, mìn, men5: partener; tovaras; egal; doi (cf., mina, ‘doi’).

men(4): coroana, diadema (metafora a divinului en-conducator) (me, ‘functie, office’ + en, ‘lord’)

mén: ambii; asemanator, (cf., mana).

men2,3: Eu, insumi (cf., me-en).

min(3,5,6): (cf., mina and mana).

mina, min(5,6): doi; al doilea (mí, ‘femeie’, + na, ‘lucruri distincte’, pentru ca o femeie are doi sani) Apoi semnele 822 =750+750 https://www.oocities.org/athens/Forum/2803/SumerianArchaicSignTable.htm

822 cu valoarea fonetica   b/puzur2,mam,man,men5,mim3,min3,muru8,neS,niS,nis,sin,Sar4,SuSana2,utu3, unde 750: https://www.oocities.org/athens/Forum/2803/SumerianArchaicSignTable.htm

valoare fonetica a6,bu12,bur(u)3,buzur,ge14,giburu(m),giguru,ha3,hu3,Sil3,Su4,SuS,u,umun,un2 Sau  https://cdli.ucla.edu/tools/SignLists/protocuneiform/archsigns.html  2(LAGAB~a) adica LAGAB x LAGAB

Din http://oracc.museum.upenn.edu/dcclt/signlists/P282497

[[kili₃> ]]  * ki-⸢li⸣ (pronounced) kili, (written) = total                                                                                            [[kili₃> ]]  * MIN<(ki-li)>                                                                                                                    (pronounced) kili, (written) LAGAB.LAGAB, as in (Sumerian) usukili = massed might (of an army?)

[[kili₃> ]]  * MIN<(ki-li)> (pronounced) kili, (written) LAGAB.LAGAB = assembly

[[kilib₃> ]] * ki-lib (pronounced) kilib, (written) LAGAB.LAGAB = ditto

[[nin₃> ]] * ni-in (pronounced) nin, (written) LAGAB.LAGAB = same thing (assembly)for the third time


nigin[[niŋin> ]] * ni-⸢gi⸣-in  (pronounced) nigin, (written) LAGAB.LAGAB = same thing (assembly)for the fourth time

nigin[[niŋin> ]] *(u) <(ni-gi-in)> = to go around

nigin[[niŋin> ]]  * ⸢MIN⸣<(ni-gi-in)>  ditto, (written) LAGAB.LAGAB = to constantly seek out

nigin[[niŋin> ]]  * ⸢MIN⸣<(ni-gi-in)> ditto, (written) LAGAB.LAGAB = to supervise

nigin[[niŋin> ]]  * MIN<(ni-gi-in)> ditto (written) LAGAB.LAGAB = to surround

nigin[[niŋin> ]]  * MIN<(ni-gi-in)> ditto (written) LAGAB.LAGAB = to continually encircle

nigin[[niŋin> ]]  * MIN<(ni-gi-in)> ditto (written) LAGAB.LAGAB = to lie across

nigin[[niŋin> ]]  * MIN<(ni-gi-in)> ditto (written) LAGAB.LAGAB = to enclose

nigin[[niŋin> ]]  * MIN<(ni-gi-in)> ditto (written) LAGAB.LAGAB = to close up a house

nigin[[niŋin> ]]  * MIN<(ni-gi-in)> ditto (written) LAGAB.LAGAB = to constantly seek for

nigin[[niŋin> ]] * MIN<(ni-gi-in)> ditto (written) LAGAB.LAGAB = to roam around

nigin[[niŋin> ]] * MIN<(ni-gi-in)> ditto (written) LAGAB.LAGAB = to grovel(said) of a man “umili, tara”

nigin[[niŋin> ]] * MIN<(ni-gi-in)> ditto, (written) LAGAB.LAGAB = to delay

nigin[[niŋin> ]] * MIN<(ni-gi-in)> ditto, (written) LAGAB.LAGAB = total

nigin[[niŋin> ]] * MIN<(ni-gi-in)> ditto, (written) LAGAB.LAGAB = to cut off

nigin[[niŋin> ]] * MIN<(ni-gi-in)> ditto, (written) LAGAB.LAGAB = to turn= relenting

nigin[[niŋin> ]] <(ni-gi-in)>  ditto, (written) LAGAB.LAGAB = to rotate= vertigo

nigin[[niŋin> ]]  *(u) * MIN<(ni-gi-in)> ditto, (written) LAGAB.LAGAB = to encircle

nigin[[niŋin> ]]  * MIN<(ni-gi-in)>ditto, (written) LAGAB.LAGAB = firmly established (said) of a gate

nigin[[niŋin> ]] * MIN<(ni-gi-in)>  ditto, (written) LAGAB.LAGAB = to convey “transmite”

Deocamdata am constatat cateva intelesuri  commune pentru DD si oo: (man,men5): partener, companion, egal, doi    …in faza asta pare un angajament de comuniune a unei perechi.  

https://archive.org/stream/proceedings12soci/proceedings12soci_djvu.txt << nimin is also arb&, “forty.” Is this ni(s), “twenty,” min, “twice”? …. … chinese: ni, “many”; min, “a multitude”; jd’/i min-min, “a mass of people” (gin + min) ….<$<, nimin, *kissatu, ” multitude,” (ni + min) = nigin, napharu ; cp. me, “much”; and perhaps ni or ne, ” a force,” ” host.” >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~                                                    Inafara de faptul ca sumerienii nu trasau,inscriptionau semnele pentru numere, unul din cercetatorii enumerati inainte a mai adaugat o observatie din care rezulta ca nu era un scrib sumerian, si anume ca spre deosebire de sumerieni care incepeau cu numerele mai mari, aici trebuind sa inceapa cu zecile, pe care trebuia sa le puna la stanga, la noi numarul incepe cu unitatile: 1,1,10,10. posibil ca a folosit semnele pentru numere ca sa ascunda de fapt cuvinte. Dar si daca ar fi inscriptionat numere, pentru 22 trebuia sa scrie 20, 2 pe cand aici a inscriptionat 2,20 . Se citeste 2 x 20=min-niš= 2×20 ?. Pentru ca sumerienii spuneau pentru 40=nis-min=2×20> nimin=40. INSEAMNA ORI CA NU A INTENTIONAT SA SCRIE UN NUMAR CI NUMAI min-nigin SAU A VRUT SA ASCUNDA NUMARUL 40 (niš-min,nimin=40) SUB FORMA 20×2, min- niš. Interesant ca si un cercetator rus acum zeci de ani a dedus ca apare numarul 40.

NUN.KA.S.UGULA.PL.IDIM.KARA.I: “In (cea de-a) patruzecea domnie pentru buzele (gura) zeului Saue cel mai vârstnic dupa ritual (a fost) ars. Acesta-i al zecelea”

https://unglueit-files.s3.amazonaws.com/ebf/2330290bbe4c4ce08d318e78186a077f.pdf << 60-61a) As Finkel (1988: 149 n. 62) has argued, the first deity, written in abbreviated form with the number 40!? (in witness A) and mistakenly with 5036 for 40!? (in witness B) should represent Ea, the god of wisdom and magic, since he is usually responsible for human fate and associated with the lore of exorcism or conjuring. Fink el identifies the following cryptic signs PAB-PAB/BÙLUG with Ea’s son Marduk/Asalluhi who is considered as the patron of the āšipu par excellence >>

—————– santier in lucru ! Atentie, cad caramizi ! ———————-

Alan Turing http://alanturings.blogspot.com/2010/04/sacred-number-of-enki.html
NUMARUL SACRU AL LUI ENKI Cu mai mult de 7.000 de ani în urmă, civilizația sumeriană a prosperat în toată Mesopotamia. Un sistem agricol fusese dezvoltat pentru a susține viața continuu pentru prima dată în istoria omenirii, iar locuitorii săi au creat un panteon de zei elaborat pentru a explica minunile naturale și fenomenul morții.
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Una dintre cele mai venerate zeități ale lor, care apare și ca „Ea” în Babilon și Akkad, a fost „Enki”. Dincolo de Mesopotamia antică, legendele care îl înconjoară pe Enki au rezonat în epoca biblică (atât Vechiul, cât și Noul Testament) și au un impact asupra lumii noastre de astăzi. În timp ce puțini îi cunosc numele, Enki este o parte inevitabilă a secolului 21.
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Proiectându-și reputația descurajantă din Golful Persic, Enki, adesea tradus ca „Domn al Pământului”, avea o înclinație pentru bere și femei – în special rude de sex feminin. În ciuda decesului de a deveni un bețiv obișnuit zvelt, el a reușit să fie considerat și zeul inteligenței, meșteșugurilor și creației. Așa cum s-a întâmplat cu majoritatea zeităților pre-iudaice, zeii din Egiptul antic, Grecia și Sumer dețineau de obicei atât caracteristici supranaturale, cât și umane (defecte).
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În cele din urmă, Enki a devenit un fel de salvator prin înfrângerea desenelor nefaste ale fratelui său vitreg Enlil. Într-un cuvânt, Enlil a vrut să pună capăt experimentului uman și a declanșat o serie de dezastre naturale (adică foamete, secetă etc.) asupra Mesopotamiei. Enki a răspuns educându-i pe oameni să folosească contramăsuri eficiente (adică irigații pentru a bate seceta) pentru a supraviețui atacului lui Enlil.
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Când Enlil a descoperit că planurile sale macabre nu au reușit să se materializeze, a convocat o întâlnire a zeilor (a cărei rege era) și a decis să inunde lumea din existență. Când Enki a aflat despre ultima machinație a fratelui său vitreg, se spune că i-a spus unui bărbat pe nume Atrahasis să construiască un vas suficient de mare pentru a rezista printr-un potop. Suna familiar?
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Prin urmare, noțiunile despre un zeu care „salvează” umanitatea dintr-o figură întunecată și inundația catastrofală de sfârșit a lumii descrise în legendele lui Enki par să cuprindă rădăcinile istoriei iudeo-creștine ulterioare și a relatărilor teologice.
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Dincolo de aceste povești, este interesant de menționat că Enki a fost adesea numit pur și simplu „40”, iar numărul său a fost considerat sacru în cadrul tradiției sumeriene. Deoarece „40” apare mai des în Biblia creștină decât orice alt număr (adică potopul lui Noe a durat „patruzeci de zile și patruzeci de nopți”, Isus a petrecut patruzeci de zile postind în deșert, au trecut 40 de zile între învierea și înălțarea lui Isus etc.) , „40” sumeriană a lui Enki trăiește încă pe cel puțin două religii practicate pe scară largă astăzi. Sperăm că oamenii de știință vor putea face progrese suplimentare în legarea curenților intelectuali și teologici din Sumer și Egiptul Antic de iudaism și creștinism. Între timp, studenții de istorie, religie și arheologie ar trebui să continue să pătrundă în lumea primei civilizații – Sumer – unde „40” nu arăta niciodată atât de bine.
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(Pictograf: Enki – cu râurile Tigru și Eufrat ieșind din umerii lui. Enki era cunoscut și ca „Dumnezeul reaprovizionării”)
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J Roquen
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Enki a fost adesea numit pur și simplu „40”, iar numărul său a fost considerat sacru în cadrul tradiției sumeriene.

nimin(40), *kissatu, ” multitude,” (ni + min) = nigin, napharu ; cp. me, “much”

================= santier in lucru ========

[1776]Semn << ;   Numele semnului: U.U                                                                                                              citire:man (men 5 mim 3 min 3 mina 3 mam mana) min 3 niš (neš nis) puzur 2 (buzur 2) tab 4               citiri aditionale:amna 2, geš x(|U.U|), giš x(|U.U|), meš x(|U.U|), naš, nes, šamaš 2, šar 4, šarru 2, šušana 2, šušanaku, utu 3, wan

Sumerian-Lexicon | Cuneiform | Linguistic Typology – Scribd www.scribd.com › document › Sumerian-Lexicon

 PDF File (.pdf), John A. Halloran … šušana: one third (part). 919   https://www.oocities.org/athens/Forum/2803/SumerianArchaicSignTable.htm 822. min4, 822=750+750

https://www.oocities.org/athens/Forum/2803/SumerianArchaicSignTable.htm

921. min5, 921 919+893bhttps://www.oocities.org/athens/Forum/2803/SumerianArchaicSignTable.htm

 002. min6,  https://www.oocities.org/athens/Forum/2803/SumerianArchaicSignTable.htm

215. min7, https://www.oocities.org/athens/Forum/2803/SumerianArchaicSignTable.htm

http://mugsarsumerian.com/default.htm  122BA

SHE / ŠE | niga, nigu = [28315x!] barley, grain; 

The Ḏd-Emblem of Osiris

ONE MORE CHANCE TO TARTARIA TABLETS ?

December 12, 2020

Last chance given to the tablets from Tartaria !?

Sounds silly, emphatic, that is; how, to whom do I give a chance, to humanity, to world culture? In fact, I give it to myself, because it is essentially just to my continuous and consistent effort over about 11 years. In the event of notable progress, then one can speak of a contribution to European or Aegean culture for example. What determined me to resume the approach? The fact that I exhausted a series of hypotheses materialized through a series of test readings, not accepting any reservations. Then my thoughts settled somehow and I realized that of all the hypotheses, few, more precisely, only one has real chances. This is due to a series of reasons, mainly scientific, but not only.

WHY I COMPLETELY ELIMINATED THE ‘SUMERIAN HYPOTHESIS’

The signs on the tablets, compared to any of the writing systems in the world, indeed the signs most closely resemble those of the Sumerian proto-cuneiform. Years ago I didn’t even know they existed, but after I found out about them and saw them, it was as if new gates and horizons had opened up for me. Not only have I seen this resemblance but also others before me, (1965) researchers of the highest level in the field (Adam Falkenstein / Germany Zu den Tontafeln aus Tartaria, (1965) and Aizik Abramovici Vaiman / USSR).  But they and I said each in his own way that only resembles.

https://de.suenee.cz/zahada-tartarijskych-hlinenych-tabulek << In 1965 brachte der deutsche Sumerologe Adam Falkenstein die… dass die Texte in Tartaria unter dem Einfluss von Sumer entstanden sind. >>

They turned around and averting, in a rather elegant manner  (Vaiman: “quasi-Sumerian writing”) I was more determined and looking more than them and adding a number of more concrete evidences & clues. Archaeological archeology. Спб, 1994. Вып. 3. Аннотации… http://www.archeo.ru ›…› Annotations of issues A. A. Vaiman. On the Quasi – Sumerian tablets from Tartaria. I can’t explain why the scollars didn’t proceed to express their opinion in a more determined way, but they preferred an approach like this, “with the spirit of gentleness”. They who should have seen better than me what sign and how much, to what extent they resemble the Sumerian correspondent. But being specialized in Sumerian proto-writing, it did not even cross their minds to see if the signs somehow resemble the oldest Aegean signs and writings. They took the signs in the hypothesis “if they were Sumerian” and interpreted them accordingly. All the interpretations of these scientists with expertise in Assyriology but with high specialization in the field of proto-cuneiform writing have obtained very good results similar to each other and similar to my interpretation.

Third, Rumen Kolev / Bulgaria also obtained very good results, even in a way surpassed them, even if I have the impression he was influenced by the research of those who preceded his. But I repeat, he has a valuable personal contribution in interpretation. ПЛОЧКИТЕ ОТ ТАРТАРИЯ И ЧАШАТА ОТ СУВОРОВО – ДВА “НАДПИСА” НА РАННАТА ДУНАВСКА КУЛТУРА И РАЗШИФРОВАНЕТО ИМ Румен Колев http://www.su-varna.org/izdanij/Magazin%201%20conf/Pages%20from%2046%20to%2053 .pdf  

Without false modesty my interpretation is more complete than all of them, and made more accurately. I was surprised to see how other researchers did not recognize some signs, others misinterpreted and other “details” like that. The reasons for elimination as tablets to be Sumerian are many, most of them technnical (about 10 in number) regarding the concrete form of the signs themselves, but also the technique specific to the “writing” of the Sumerians. But the main reason was to rule out the possibility that some friable objects were brought by someone from such a distance, or it was in extremes  a place closer to Syria. Decisive was the finding and deduction that the tablets were either inscribed between 3,200-2,800 IEN or after 1925. Why? Quite simple: in all this “in between” interval, no man on earth could see any of them cause being buried meters of earth / rubble under a temple in Uruk (Warka) NOTE: The scribe, the author of found by the way, so intentionally, to create in the round tablet but also in the perforated rectangular tablet a compartmentalization of the symbols, apparently according to the Sumerian model. In any case, at least in the case of the perforated rectangular tablet, the Sumerians did not do so; if they made compartments, columns in no case isolated only two or even a single symbol, as happens in our perforated rectangular tablet. This leads us to the separate interpretation of the symbols in each of the compartments made, whether a compartment contains two signs or just one. This means that they each sign had a distinct, sacred significance and therefore of great importance, and possibly leaned on them one by one during the supposed religious rituals !?. This facilitates the interpretation (I would avoid term reading) because in the case of proto-writing only a rough meaning can be extracted and not a concrete one, explicit and clear as in the case of writing. Ceremonial and ritual objects were used as a means to establish or maintain communication between the sacred (the transcendent or supernatural realm) and the profane (the realm of time, space and cause and effect). Occasionally, such objects have been used to compel the sacred (or divine) realm to act or react in a manner that is favorable to participants in ceremonies or persons or activities to which such rituals relate or to prevent the transcendent realm, to injure or endanger them. These objects can thus be mediating devices to contact the divine world.                                                

 THE PROBLEM OF THE AGE OF THE TABLES AND OF THE TYPE OF WRITING                                           Initially, Romanian archaeologists established that the tablets come from a Neolithic Vinca layer and established that they date from around 5.300 BC. ! Initially they talked about the “origin of writing in the Danube area”, (Merlini: “Scrittura e nata in Europa?” / Was writing born in Europe?) And then soon after, to descend from the celestial space and talk about a script. Script does not mean writing like the ancient Scriptures, but a script means a collection of signs. Although the name leads to the idea of ​​handmade signs, this is not necessary, see the Faistos disc. It contains a collection of signs, script but signs  printed with stamps or something like that. After that a controversy started, in fact heated discussions about dating. 2400-2.700 BCE .                                                                                                         The tablets of Tǎrtǎria. An enigma? A reconsideration and… http://www.persee.fr ›dha_0755-7256_1993_num_19_1_2073… Vlassa in a subsequent paper, dated the tablets“ around (2700?) 2600-2400 BC ”, ironically naming the adepts of radiocarbon dating as “radiocarbonists ”(Vlassa 1970. I’m not trying to clarify: with what expertise and on what basis did he state that the signs are close (otherwise  perfectly true) to those from the Jemdet Nasr period !? It should be noted that nowhere in the world was a single proto-writing found before 3.500 IEN. The oldest appeared in Sumer, Iran and Egypt, almost simultaneously around (but not earlier than!) 3.500 IEN, followed by the Proto-Elamite writings and the script of the Indus Valley. https://sites.utexas.edu/dsb/tokens/tokens/  

(Fig. 4)  Impressed tablet from Godin Tepe, Iran, ca. 3100 BC. courtesy Cuyler Young Jr.,  Royal Ontario Museum, Toronto. The small circular signs stand for 1 large measure of grain, the wedges for a small measure of grain.

Fig. 4) Impressed tablet from Godin Tepe, Iran, ca. 3100 BC. courtesy Cuyler Young Jr., Royal Ontario Museum, Toronto. The small circular signs stand for 1 large measure of grain, the wedges for a small measure of grain.

From Harappa.com 62. How old is the oldest ancient Indus writing? Asko Parpola: “The earliest examples of Indus writing are from the Early Harappan Kot Diji period, which at Harappa is dated to c. 2800-2600 BCE.”

For all this, the type of writing is proto-writing, in which ideograms and logograms are used. Cuneiform writing proper appeared only after 2800 I.E.N. The closest example is Sumerian proto-writing in which they use proto-cuneiform signs. A “curiosity” (actually more than that and maybe more serious) is the appearance and the presence on the our three tablets simultaneously, one on each, of three types of writing: pictographic, ideographic-logographic and syllabic-alphabetic. This should raise big questions, but you can’t believe it, no one bothered with that. To me it is more than a strange thing, not knowing another instance of this kind in the world. It is as if someone wanted to show someone else the evolution of world writing and / or at the same time or the author to display “show off” his knowledge in the field. Normally I expected from the author to use only one type of writing, namely current, that of his age and time! In this kind of presentation of the author in which he rather displayed a collection of signs, it makes impossible a unitary interpretation (a single story, a linked message) of the whole set of three tablets.                                                                

 THE PROBLEM OF AUTHENTICITY                                                                                                               There were many factual elements that suit us or not, they come to question their authenticity (the absence of the discoverer at the time of discovery, the absence of any witnesses, the uncertainty regarding the layer to which they belong, the burning in the oven >> the impossibility of dating with C14, etc. ) The fact that the top half of the round tablet contains signs that appeared much more recently and did not exist as Sumerian proto-cuneiform signs at least, made me even more question their authenticity. The presence of the signs in the upper half of the round tablet in the archaic Greek alphabets and the detection by others and me too, that the author did not master the writing (according to some it was completely illiterate) contributed to this suspicion. I deduced the possibility that the author knew how to write, but only using the signs he knew well and with which he knew how to write: “archaic Greek letters”, present in the upper half of the round tablet (HD; DD o? / C ?). Even so, it can be explained why worn together around the neck (hung by a string), the rectangular tablet covers the upper half of the round one. ! So that it cannot be read by contemporaneous passers-by! That is why, and even more so, I admit that I started to suspect the circle around Zsofia Torma and especially the one around N.Vlassa without finding any clue or presumed guilty. In fact, knowing and using very old signs presupposes that in one way or another, the one who inscribed the signs has an idea of ​​them, at least in the sea. However, it is certain that he had an idea of ​​them only “largely”. Even this is not absolutely possible IF the author were somewhere close to our days. It seems that even in the period 800-300 BCE both the Sumerian proto-cuneiform and the early Aegean signs were unknown, both writings being buried. The Sumerian ones were found / unearthed in 1925 / Woolley and the Aegean ones shortly before 1900 / A.Evans.                                                              

A DILEMMA WHOSE SOLUTION CAN BRING LIGHT INTO THE PROBLEM OF AUTHENTICITY    There are two situations of which only one can be real: 1. The round tablet contains in the upper half signs, numbers of Sumerian origin and the Sumerian invoice, for a commercial transaction or archaic Greek letters. It is obvious that there is no reason for them to be hidden. It would mean that the author did not even intend to hide them; the fact that the round tablet would be half covered by the rectangular one is a pure coincidence. 2. The author intended to cover the message on the upper half of the round one (both perforated tablets being hanged by a leather string). We are implicitly forced to find a reason to hide the signs. The signs in this case should come from the Aegean area. It is impossible to have a certainty which variant is the real one. This exposes me to a major risk when we know that most extremely old inscriptions (eg in Sumerians) have an administrative content. Because I set out from the beginning to give one last chance to interpret them based on the Aegean script, it is clear that I have to go for the second option. There are also two aspects that I hope are only seemingly irreconcilable: – the presence on the tablets of some clearly Sumerian signs, for example the signs “Ab”, “AMAR” etc. (perforated rectangular tablet) on the one hand and – the presence on the tablets of the signs Heta(Eta), Delta / Rho, omicron, lunate sigma (in the upper half of the round tablet) This situation, I must say with all the bitterness, makes me feel I’m researching a criminal field.                                                                                                               

WHICH IS ALMOST THE ONLY HYPOTHESIS WITH REAL CHANCE, AND WHY.

According to the hypothesis of the presence of signs similar to the Sumerian ones, the closest writing by point of view of the proximity of the area and the antiquity is that of the presence of some Aegean “Proto-Linear” signs. I was pleasantly surprised and a new perspective opened up for me when I became acquainted with the studies of the Greek researchers I. Papakitsos and G. Kenanidis. They claim that the beginnings of writing in the Aegean area are simply due to the presence of early Sumerian settlers.                                                                                                            A 17th c. BC Minoan Votive Double Ax (Labrys). The Arkalochori Ax and its siblings http://www.anistor.gr/english/enback/2016_1s_Anistoriton.pdf << To say that the inscription Aa (Archalokori Ax) belongs to Linear A would be at least inaccurate, for two reasons: Linear documents The existing A uses, as the name suggests, linear signs, while the ax signs are more pictorial, with a not so strict orientation1 and flatter, bi‐dimentionale; and, existing Linear A inscriptions usually convey non-Sumerian languages ​​used by non-Sumerian nationalities living in Minoan Crete, while this ax, like all C.H. documents, is an appearance of an original inscription by the Minoan Sumerians. >>

I tested an attempt to interpret the signs using Aegean signs. Paradoxically, the interpretation is not far from Sumerian interpretations. Why? Because some ideograms have a similar meaning to the Sumerians and the Aegeans. Since then, the DDoo sign sequence has been an insurmountable obstacle for me. Because “D” signs did not exist in the Sumerians but also in the Aegean area before 1000 IEN. These appeared in Proto-Sinaitic writing around 1,000 IEN and in the Aegean area even later, after 1,000 IEN (600-800IEN Chalcis). The other day I saw a work in which all the signs from all types of ancient Aegean writings were reviewed, even comparing them with each other:

MINOAN LINEAR A Original title of the first edition (Sheffield 1987): THE ONOMASTICS OF THE ‘MINOAN LINEAR A’ AND ‘LINEAR B’ DOCUMENTS AND THEIR HISTORICAL SIGNIFICANCE by Peter George van Soesbergen.                                                                                                             That’s when I realized second time again, but the signs that I can’t find an equivalent among the Aegean ones are extremely few. This on the one hand, and on the other hand, even with an initially presumed lack of some, it is pointless not to do this approach. I propose a goal as advanced as that of the interpretation of the tablets. In the first phase I will limit myself to trying to find the equivalent of each sign in the Aegean writings. By this I will be able to prove their origin.  I could leave the interpretation for phase II of my research.  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~                                                               These two situations, ( quasi-Sumerian signs “as/like-Sumerian ”, with the appearance of Sumerian signs) and the one in which there are signs similar to the Aegean ones, of Aegean type/guy, create two distinct situations with consequences of overwhelming importance: The first situation offers the conditions for an easy interpretation, as the signs are somewhat more similar to the Sumerian ones, signs that can be found more easily in the Sumerian Proto-cuneiform  signaries. Their significance seems to be fairly well known to specialists. But it also means that someone intentionally or unintentionally produced artifacts that “want to look like” something. This implies the idea and the paractic consequence of deceiving and the possible existence more or less of some forgeries. I dislike and attacked this situation and showed how and why many signs just “seem to be Sumerian” and I offered an interpretation similar to those offered by top specialists. Note that proto-cuneiform signs belong to proto-writing (ideograms and logograms) and therefore do not belong to writing proper and therefore do not use a language (in this case Sumerian). This does not mean that many signs are not associated with Sumerian ones and has a phonetic correspondent. The second situation makes the approach more difficult for me, because here we have (like in Linear A) both ideograms and syllabograms. The Cretan-hieroglyphic and Linear A writings are still present in the category of undeciphered writings. . I will have to show and keep track of the signs that are not found in identical form among the Aegean, the identical-Aegean and the similar-Aegean ones for which I must find the closest possible graphic equivalent.                                                                                                               ========== AEGEAN SCRIPTS ==========                                                                                            From How undeciphered is an undeciphered script? – Oxbow Bookswww.oxbowbooks.com ›oxbow› blog ›2017/07/14 << Writing in Bronze Age Greece. The writing systems that have survived this period are all syllabic (ie each sign represents an entire syllable, not just a letter) and are in various stages of “deciphering”. Cretan hieroglyphic writing. (2,100-1,700 I.E.N.) It survives in about 3,300 inscriptions and remains very little understood, although we know little about its relationship to the other scriptures. One problem is that the inscriptions are often decorative and it is difficult to say how to read them – it presents some problems similar to the decorative Mayan writing. Although some signs look similar to those in lines A and B, which means we can guess their values, their “pictorial” nature is quite different from the more abstract shapes of the signs in the other systems. Linear Writing A (1,800-1,450 I.E.N.) Line A survives in about 1,500 inscriptions, many clay tablets and seals, although other items such as jewelry, pottery and stone vessels have been inscribed. It is usually labeled as “undeciphered”, but this is a good example of scripture in which we could read sequences aloud reasonably accurately, as many of its signs are shared (along with their values) by writing Linear B deciphered later. . However, we do not understand the language of the inscriptions, except that we can determine the meaning of a word in its context (especially the word for “total”, ku-ro, which appears at the end of the lists). Linear Writing B (1,450-1,200 I.E.N.) survives in about 6,000 inscriptions and is the only fully deciphered Bronze Age script in the Aegean Sea. Michael Ventris broke the code and announced its decipherment in 1952, proving that the language written in Linear B was an early form of Greek. Almost all surviving examples are administrative documents made of clay, and because we understand their contents, we can extract from them a wealth of historical information about the economy of the Mycenaean world. >> NOTE: Because it is very difficult to extract the equivalent Aegean signs and to show them to you, to put a picture of them, some (few) of the equivalent signs found in the writings Cretana Hieroglifica, Linear A and Linear B, I will extract them from the indicated work above. The sign will be indicated by me: Type of writing / page / no. sign, ex Linear A / pag12 / sign 5 will be A / 12/5.                                                                                                                                                      ======= ….overlaps between the Cretan script and other scriptures, such as the hieroglyphic scriptures of Cyprus and the Hittite countries of Anatolia, may suggest that they all evolved from a common ancestor, a now lost script, originally from Syria. ======                                        In the case of an approach with notable results regarding an interpretation using the Aegean signs, implicitly results an age of the tablets of maximum 2,800 BCE. The resemblance of a small number of signs (ligatured trapezoids, arched& arrow, ..) more with the Sumerian ones than with the Aegean ones could be an indicator of the presence of a strong early Sumerian influence. In other words, the tablets from Tartaria could serve to Mr. Papakitsos and Kenanidis as an argument and the best physical evidence in support of the research works  which evidences a strong Sumerian influence for the beginnings of writing in the Aegean area. Moreover, the writing was introduced to the Aegean area in Crete directly from Sumer, some of the first Minoans being in fact migrants from Sumer.                                                                                                                       

THE INSCRIPTIONS WERE MADE BY A MINOIC SUMERIAN From Crete, Cyclades, Anatolia or Levant (Syria) ? we do not know.

(PDF) Some syllabograms of the animal category in thehttp://www.researchgate.net ›publication› 340771705_Some_… Some syllabograms of the animal category in the Cretan Protolinear Script Ioannis K. Kenanidis Evangelos C. Papakitsos << The present study is focuses on linguistic evidence that demonstrates the origins of those Eastern settlers who initiated the Minoan civilization shown to be related to the archaic Sumerian culture through the features of the Aegean scriptures. >>Minoan Sumerian | Giannhs Kenanidhs – Academia.edu http://www.academia.edu ›Minoan_Sumerian A Comparative Linguistic Study about the Sumerian Influence on the Creation of the Aegean Scripts Ioannis K. Kenanidis1, Evangelos C. Papakitsos * 2 << Sumerienii s-au dovedit to be excellent traders and settlers throughout the Middle East, even at the end of the Uruk period [56]. According to Kramer [57]: “By the third millennium BC, there was good reason to believe that Sumerian culture and civilization had penetrated, at least to some extent, into East India and the West into The Mediterranean Sea, as well as the south of ancient Ethiopia and as far north as the Caspian Sea. ”Crete was known to Mesopotamia at least since the era of Sargon the Great, who lived between the 24th and 23rd centuries BC. [58]. >>                                                                                                                          …. For the first time I’ve learned of a possible intrusion of the Sumerians in Europe (Crete) with the practical result of the appearance of the Cretan Hieroglyphic and Linear A scripts of ideographic-consonantal nature followed by the linear writing B, consonantal = syllabary, from the works of Greek researchers E.C.Papakitsos and I.K. Kenanidis. The schollars speak of a proto-linear scripture which was the forerunner of the others. In this, they tried to show the evidence regarding an initial Sumerian contribution and influence.

(PDF) Minoan Sumerian | Giannhs Kenanidhs – Academia.edu http://www.academia.edu ›Minoan_Sumerian A Comparative Linguistic Study about the Sumerian Influence on the Creation of the Aegean Scripts Ioannis K. Kenanidis1, Evangelos C. Papakitsos *                        << The hypothesized protolinear script consists of 120 syllables of the V and CV models, as found in Linear-A / B scripts, one for each syllable of a dialect close to the archaic Sumerian language. … .So we have a script of simplified icons (signs), which describe elements, where the phonetic value of each sign is related to the archaic Sumerian word for the described object. Many of them are related to associated signs of the Cretan hieroglyph, also with Sumerian pictograms and sometimes with equivalent cuneiforms. … .The comparative study was conducted in parallel, including four factors:

 the painted object and its sign in the Aegean scripture,

 the relation and similarity of the previous sign with the Sumerian equivalent,

 the phonetic value attributed to the sign in the Aegean Script,

 the resemblance of the previous phonetic value with Sumerian words denoting the described object. …                                                                                                                                                      ..Following the methodology mentioned above, the entire Linear-A / B sign set can be identified as monosyllabic (rarely disyllabic) Sumerian words referring to the objects described, noting that in Sumerian a monosyllabic word ends in a consonant (ie CV-C)…. >>

An Application of Systems Science in Humanities: Investigating the Origins of the Minoan Civilization http://www.sumerianz.com ›pdf-files› sjss2 (4) 33-44 PDF Evangelos C. Papakitsos University of West Attica, Greece

<< Therefore, an adequate period of arrival of the first Sumerian settlers in Crete can be defined between 2800-2600 BC. ….                                                                                                      3.3.1. Migration routes                                                                                                                                   Genomic analysis of European populations and the associated development of dairy practices indicate that farmers in the Middle East gradually immigrated to Europe during the Neolithic, through Anatolia and Greece . This route has always been the closest to Europe, in any case of historical turmoil in the Middle East, obviously even today. 3.3.3. Trade routes … .. The distance from the northern Sumerian territories to the north coast of the Levant, traveling upstream of the Euphrates River, is only 800 km (the curious reader can easily check these routes using the ease of calculating the distance of a relevant program such as Google-Earth). This route was well known to the Mesopotamians, not only from the Uruk period, but even before it, during the Ubaid period. … …By 3000 BC, Sumer had been the center of a transactional “globalization.” The most important trade for Bronze Age technology was tin. There have been extensive trading networks for this purpose. Other minerals and materials such as amber were also imported and their trade routes extended from Scandinavia to Cyprus. Commercial activity in particular does not only include the exchange of goods, but also the exchange of information and possibly an exchange of delegations of experts or agents for the valuation of traded goods. 3.5. Anthropological evidence (Who they were) There have been various attempts by scientists from many disciplines (archeology; linguistics; anthropology) to identify the origins of the Minoans. Homer (Odyssey: XIX, 172-180) mentions at least five ethnic groups (or subethnic in the case of the Achaeans and Dorians), each speaking their own language or dialect, respectively (respectively, Ahei, Eteocretani, Kydonieni, Dorieni and Pelasgi). Herodotus (Ι.173.1) mentions that in ancient times the whole of Crete was inhabited by “barbarians”, clearly meaning “foreigners” (ie non-Greeks; not “barbarians” in modern meaning of “savages”). Owens argues for the national descent of the Minoan population in opposition to Duhoux, who cites Homer’s passage above to justify the multinational environment in Prehistoric chalk. Owens’s debate bases the population of Crete on the estimated date of the writing of the Odyssey (800 BC), which has indeed been described as multinational. This debate, however, explains only for Doric groups, the last to have lived on the island in ancient times (11th century BC). For the others, Herodotus and Diodorus Siculus have preserved ancient narratives about the Eteocretans (“true Cretans”), claiming that they were the oldest inhabitants of the island, in addition to a group of older and primitive people (“Idaean Dactyls”) and also , mentioning those groups that inhabited the island after them suggest among others that the Eteocretans were the Sumerian population, the Kydonians were Akkadian settlers and the Idaean Dactyls were the earlier Neolithic inhabitants of Crete. He also proposes a settlement of the Sumerians in large numbers starting with 3000 BC. 3.5.1. Mediterranean race The Bronze Age Crete had been inhabited by people of the Mediterranean race of Neolithic origin. The Mediterranean genotype is evident in a wider perimeter of the Aegean Sea: from Western Anatolia to southern Italy and from the Central Balkan Mountains to Crete. Two relevant versions have been recognized that can be roughly characterized as “Continental” and “island” (the latter are also found in the coastal areas of the Aegean Sea), both of which are distinct from the “Armenian type”.                      4.Discussion                                                                                                                                                 The entire linguistic context of Minoan (pre-Mycenaean) Crete seems to be closer to the Middle East than to mainland Greece, either in terms of the existence of multilingual societies or in terms of influence on script creation. It is estimated that the beginning of the creation of CH and LA is somewhere between 3000-2600 BC. This is exactly the crucial period of previously estimated socio-economic changes in Sumerian societies (see 3.1.4). Thus, we are looking for a period of Sumerian (proto) writing in which their writing system had become largely phonetic, but had not yet been developed in cuneiform (after 2600-2500 BC), although the transition from Sumerian script to curvilinearity proto-cuneiform had begun as early as the 30th century BC. At this stage, their original phonetic signs (about 600) could have been developed into another compact and light syllabic system, such as CP, but still without any influence or cuneiform trace. Moreover, the Sumerians of that period were not yet affected by sprachbund (Deutscher, 2007; Woods, 2006), namely Akkadian bilingualism, because CP is simply an evolution of the archaic Sumerian script, dating from 3100 to 2600 BC. .hr. Therefore, an adequate period of arrival of the first Sumerian settlers in Crete can be defined between 2800-2600 BC. To summarize the socio-economic evidence presented, in the 26th and 27th centuries BC, the Sumerians had the experience:

 urbanization and overcrowding (see 3.1.1);

 the need for raw materials necessary for their advanced civilization, but absent in Mesopotamia

 (due to the previous need) knowledge of an extensive commercial network that has been exploited, even long before this period

 socio-economic changes accompanied by an increase in war and poverty for the lower classes Therefore, in those times, the Sumerian socio-economic conditions were similar to those of the Greek city-states that triggered the Great Ancient Greek Colonization in the 8-6th centuries B.C.

To summarize the geographical evidence, it is shown that extensive networks have existed since the Neolithic era, especially in the Balkans, through which people, strategic raw materials, other goods and information traveled from Scandinavia in the north to Ethiopia in the south and from the British Isles in the west, India to the east, with the center of this network in Mesopotamia. The oldest direct evidence to date of such sea ​​voyages in the above-mentioned trade networks date back to about 1300 BC, from the famous Ulu-burun Shipwreck / Turkey containing 17 tons of materials from 11 different cultures, including amber from the Baltic countries and tin from Afghanistan. Crete had a nature and was a privileged natural and geographical place in the origin of the north-western routes of this network that could be favorable for the establishment of the people who knew them.                                                           5. Preliminary conclusion                                                                                                                        Given the local (Mediterranean) origins of the Minoan inhabitants that have been found so far (see 3.5.1), the initial proposal for the settlement of large Sumerian populations (Kenanidis and Papakitsos, 2013a) is not anthropologically supported, at least not in the sense that whole Sumerian families immigrated to Crete. Which could have happened, although it is analogous to the Great Ancient Greek Colonization, where the settlers were mostly unmarried men, who obtained brides from the local population after settlement (Manfredi and Braccesi, 1997). This analogy justifies the anthropological evidence about the Minoans in terms of both their maternal descent of Neolithic European origin (see 3.5.2) and the assimilation observed by the locals of the settlers in “Iranian / Armenian” (Kyriakidis and Konstas, 1974b). Ancient Greek settlers, although fewer in number, but carrying an advanced culture, influenced in many different ways by neighboring Romans (Manfredi and Braccesi, 1997) and Etruscans (Laparidou, 2002), or other indigenous populations, from the Egyptians (Trianti et al., 2011) to the distant culture of Gandara in Eastern Afghanistan. Therefore, SOT, as expressed here, argues that the eastern settlers who arrived in Crete during the 28th-26th centuries BC. (Douvitsas, 2005; Kyriakidis, 1971; Kyriakidis and Konstas, 1974b) were people from the Sumerian cultural environment: merchants (knowledge of routes), craftsmen (carpenters, metallurgists, seal makers, etc.) and scholars (actually accountants and administration officials). ) in moderate numbers. The advanced level of this civilization compared to that of the local Neolithic population could easily have led to the complete adoption of their culture by the locals, during the period of eight centuries (2700-1900 BC). Prepalatial. In this regard, more direct evidence is accumulating that will be presented shortly. The inscriptions Linear B cover approximately the postpalatal period. By using the rebus principle, it has been shown beyond any statistical doubt that the language that creates Linear B signs (consisting of abstractly described objects) is a close dialect, but simpler than the archaic Sumerian, because the phonetic value of each sign corresponds to the equivalent Sumerian monosyllabic word. for the described object. According to Fischer (2004), the principle of conundrum that was invented by the Sumerians is a gift to mankind, whose linguistic influence has spread to Iran, the Nile, the Indus Valley and (perhaps) the Balkans (Kenanidis, 1992). CV CV-type phonotactics is usually found in agglutinative languages, a feature that was ignored in LA, although observed very early by Duhoux (1998) and recently by Davis (2014) as well. A nearby agglutinative language so well studied from the third millennium BC. she was Sumerian. … According to CP theory, Sumerian scholars, who invented the original script, had to write in languages ​​other than their own mother tongue, from which you can deduce that all “non-Minoan” languages ​​written in LA / LB are quite distorted. >>

Cretan Hieroglyphics The Ornamental and Ritual Version of the Cretan Protolinear Script (PDF) Cretan Hieroglyphics: The Ornamental and Ritual… http://www.researchgate.net ›publication› 312039048_Cretan  << The Cretan hieroglyphic script is conventionally classified as one of the five scriptures in the Aegean Sea, together with Linear-A, Linear-B and the two Cypriot syllables, namely Cyprus-Minoan and the Greek Cypriot syllable, the latter being considered as such due to pictorial and phonetic similarities with the previous ones . Cretan hieroglyphs were found in the Aegean Sea area in the second millennium BC. Their relationship with Linear-A is still in dispute, while the language (or languages) transmitted is still considered unknown. The authors argue here that the Cretan hieroglyphic script is simply a decorative version of the Linear-A (or, more precisely, the lost Cretan protolinear script that is the ancestor of all Aegean scriptures) that was used primarily by seal makers or used for rituals. The language transmitted must be a conservative form of Sumerian, as the Cretan hieroglyph is strictly associated with the main original Minoan culture and religion – unlike Linear-A which was used for several other languages ​​– while the phonetic values ​​of the signs have the same Sumerian origin as in Proto-Cretan . … .. ……It was documented that the inventors of the Proto-Linear Script were a nation that spoke a dialect close to the archaic Sumerian language. …… ……The following year, Duhoux (1978) observed that Linear-A is “rather agglutinative than inflected ”(same as the Sumerian language), due to the large number of affixes it contains (in 59% of words) compared to Linear-B (respectively 12%). … There are also older indications of different schools / scribal styles (Bennett 1966). Later, this suggestion was also supported by Finkelberg (1998). This idea (scribal guild), extended in the past, can explain why and how a relatively limited number of Sumerian scribes and seal makers could have created a writing system (Cretan Protolinear, so Linear-A, Cretan Hieroglyphics and Linear-B) to write the different languages ​​of the Aegean Sea (Kenanidis and Papakitsos 2015a). These professionals could easily have been hired from the Sumerian communities in the Levant (according to Rohl 1999). … ….After an idea from 1978 and almost 10 years of research, Kenanidis (1992) published (in modern Greek) a study that links the phonetic values ​​of the syllabograms of the linear scriptures to the common or culturally important words of the archaic Sumerian language, through through the rebus principle. This study refers extensively to the Cretan Proto-Linear script, considering as the only preserved samples of it three inscriptions on:……. ……Nota: tablitele de la Tartaria par a fi cea mai buna exemplificare, pentru Scriptura Proto-Lineara, daca nu cumva pentru o faza extrem de incipienta.                                                                            

“PICTOGRAPHIC” TABLET

 Image from http://www.dacoromania-alba.ro/nr27/cultura_si_civilizatiile_la_tartaria.htm

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Among the Aegean writings, this tablet certainly leans towards the Cretan Hieroglyphic writing, which uses pictograms extensively. That kind of writing was used to inscribe votive (cultic) objects and seals.                                                                          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~                                                                                 subject to comparison. (-> -> ->). – one /

FIRST,LEFT-SIDE SIGN, ….a human silhouette? spirit/gost, master of animals, deity? ( Pity, the talent did not help the scribe at all) is not present in any of the writings (Sumerian, Aegean). Obviously, it is not found among the Aegean signs, because we do not even know what to look for. and, VEGETAL TWIG,BRANCH,GRAIN EAR Sumerians had many signs for different kind of cereals: As, Se, Se x Se Minoans had the twig> Cretan sign Te: “wheat” image, from https://linearbknossosmycenae.com Cretan hieroglyphs dealing with crops and vessels pottery

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– that GOAT (s) was represented in the Aegean writings. The tablet seems to present a ritual of offering an offering (goat / goats) and maybe also cereals = “straw”. https://swaggert727344314.wordpress.com/2019/03/26/the-journey-begins/ Mountain Goat = Ibex (in Crete: “cri-cri”)

Alpine Ibex Goat – Swaggert

Din http://oldeuropeanculture.blogspot.com/2020/02/goat-riding-thunder-god.html

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These plaques are dated to Late Minoan I period (1480BC-1425BC) are from “Minoan Goat Hunting: Social Status and the Economics of War” by Angela Murock Hussein. That unclear undefined shaped silhuette could be of that one wich made the animal sacrifice (or the deity wich receive the sacrificed animal?) Rezult: 1 unknown sign in Aegean writings . 1 sign identical with the Aegean sign (Te), 1 wich have close shape corespondence in Aegean scripts.(goat)

RECTANGULAR DRILLED TABLET

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From  Promotora Española de Lingüística – Escritura de Tartaria

Promotora Española de Lingüística - Escritura de Tartaria

Contains about 8 signs. In the extreme part – upper middle: three signs like >>> We have mainly from left to right in the sea, 4 columns.                                                                                                 FIRST COLUMN It has three cassettes. Starting with the top (and going down):                                 –3 SIGNS “DDD-like” or “>>>”                                                                                                              Image, http://ancientlights.org/CalendarHouse/ch2.html

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/4uNPm9lq2U0zVE3RR4fqSvr3_qaZclj38zuJX4HSCRvnR1jBM7AhWmWO2cbCx3ySG3c67o5uAi2fsv_xE1K6Xx8hSmfTmevRcCTNPoqC2mxn9a2OHq0

Aegean equivalent http://people.ku.edu/~jyounger/LinearA/#11%22 * 34 sign “C”

“Sign * 034 has been suggested by several scholars to represent MNA (or, if a disyllabic value can be accepted, MINA), based on its resemblance to the crescent moon” “hiru”? “3 months” ?? – Then follows, below, one (or maybe 2?):

 VEGETALE SIGNS like “branch” (one above the other). It has (have) a correspondent in the Aegean plant signs for example the sign “you”. 1.https://linearbknossosmycenae.com Te:”wheat” 2.http://people.ku.edu/~jyounger/LinearA/#11%22 * 04 (TE) “TE, 1.“ from ../ of .. ”? 3. likely “expected evaluations or contributions”

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Result, vegetable-cereal signs. Aegean sign “te” (very possible te-te) Documents in Minoan, Luwian, Semitic and Pelasgianwww.talanta.nl ›wp-content› uploads ›2014/08› 2016… PDF << te-te te-na-te “ au dat lui Tanit ”>> 21 Compiled Syllabaries of Old European – Migration & Diffusionmigration-diffusion.info› pdfdownload PDFnurnber of related scripts were translated, regards with Minoan Linear A and ending with Russell. Burrows cave in… TE-TE he made, the way. TE-TO nothing. CONCLUSION According to my knowledge and perception, we actually have 2 signs “Te” there, Te-Te: “(opened) the way, they gave” but I choose Te x Te:”cereals>WHEAT

– Going down, follow the second box located in the first column on the left.                                    Y-like SIGN. I found the “Y” sign in exactly the same way among the Aegean signs in the Faistos disc. http://www.deniart.com/phaistos.shtml http://www.deniart.com/gfx/phaistossampler.gif

Looks like “Yes” http://people.ku.edu/~jyounger/LinearA/#11%22 * 01

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and / or with the sign “Sa” http://people.ku.edu/~jyounger/LinearA/#11%22 * 31

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“SA, perhaps a logogram for * SA-SA-ME?” <SA (HT 114b.1) or SI (HT 30.1) = paid? > I am inclined for the Aegean sign “Yes” although ours is sinistrovers (pointing to the left) and the Aegean sign is dextrovers. I have no other solution than to assume an inability to retain the scribe.

http://people.ku.edu/~jyounger/LinearA/#11%22 << DA-I = “total” ?: HT 12.6 (Schoep 2002, 162); cf. DA-I-PI-TA, ZA 8.5. If DA– (as in DA-DU-MA-TA) indicates in some way a completed action (like a perfect of A-DU), could DA-I be a completed transaction * 516 I + [?] >>

I found it in both left / right variants on the Arkalochori ax and both variants were interpreted by andras Zeke as representing the syllabogram “Yes”: A marvel of Minoan finds: the double-axis of Arkalochori http://minoablog.blogspot.com /2010/03/marvel-of-minoan-finds-axe-of.html https://medium.com/@mwenge/i-da-ma-te-in-the-arkalochori-axe-44f935f03f6e

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CONCLUZION: sign is syllabogram “DA” and signify “completed, given

  • – Following 3-rd and last cassette of the first column.
  • Sign  “ligaturate TRAPEZES ”.                                                                               Sign very problematic and difficult, because there is not found in Aegean scripts. 
  • http://www.oocities.org/proto-language/SumerianSignValueRegister.htm ga2, 458
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TARTARIA TABLETS.VINCA-TURDAS CULTURE.PROTO-WRITING: Sumerian influence on  Aegean writing
  • << K?AThe Sumerian sign (Jaritz #458) depicts a ‘tubular basket‘; a variant, #458a, tapers toward the top; both have top-covers; both presumably and read ga2 (among others). Another recorded reading for it is pisan, which means ‘basket’ but perhaps also ‘*shallow tray’.An archaic variant form for Sumerian sign above (Jaritz #458),  Jaritz #458a, looks very much as if it could be the ‘head’ without the hair and neck we see in Jaritz #15 under K?XA; and therefore might be a sign for ‘jaw’; but it also may be just another shape of ‘basket’.>>
  • is.muni.cz › PAPVB_13 › Gl…PDF a gal[help]; a gal[strong]; a gar[defeat] – IS MUNI 1. cella 2. bedroom 3. a ritual building 4. the sanctuary … Akk. damšillu “(a kind of cucumber )?; plant name” … GA2: ga2. 1. house 2. station (of the moon)? 3. room 4. house-lot. 5. estate.
  • Somehow alike sign 002 (as on CHIC #328) from Cretan Hieroglyphic http://people.ku.edu/~jyounger/PHDisc/PHDiscSigns.html
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Damn! In In the land of Lilliput: writing in the Bronze Age Aegean by Artemis Karnava says that Cr.Hier. 002 would be “human bust”; The same goes for John Younger http://www.people.ku.edu/~jyounger/Hiero/Hgrids.html

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002 = VIR2 (“male”) or 004: “female”? ..It could be because the upper part is smaller than the lower one, almost like the Aegean sign. It most resembles a Sumerian sign “AB” = “house, temple”. https://cdli.ucla.edu/tools/signlists/protocuneiform/archsigns.html “AB”

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Ancient writing in Mesopotamia (Chapter …cambridge.org

Semnele LABRYS si cele de pe tablita de la Tartaria de origine sumeriana ?  | Tartaria tablets

Then it resembles https://cdli.ucla.edu/tools/SignLists/protocuneiform/archsigns.html the Sumerian sign ZAG: “metal shine, domain, border, district” “

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and also resembles GA’AR, GAR: “all barley products”

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From the same source, UNUG: “Temple”

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Used by the Sumerians to write “eš3”. A.A. Vaiman could not identify him with a Sumerian sign, but he shows the closest sign after the dance, “AB” http://www.archeo.ru/izdaniya-1/archaeological-news/arheologicheskie-vesti/AV_03.pdf

Dlr0EirU0AEfo7c

Possible equivalent: 1. ‘labrys” https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arkalochori_Axe

Arkalochori Axe - Simple English Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://www.researchgate.net Diachronic change in sign forms between Archanes Script and Cretan-Hieroglyphic or from Archanes Script… onlinelibrary.wiley.com

Semnele LABRYS si cele de pe tablita de la Tartaria de origine sumeriana ?  | Tartaria tablets

It’s not labrys because our sign doesn’t have the handle! 2. B / 16/165; B / 16/167 ‘lingou’. From History Of Copper https://www.copper.co.za/education/history-of-copper/

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A corroded copper ingot from Zakros, Crete, shaped in the form of an animal skin typical in that era. Folowing image, from: Bilingual Indus Script inscriptions, evidence … – Bharatkalyan97 bharatkalyan97.blogspot.com › 2019/09 › bilingual-in.

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Forma pare pe un stindard sumerian.

For now, I give equal chances for the “ingot” and for the symbol “place / sacred temple”. Towards the conclusion: Present sacred sign, it seems with origins in Neolithic, Anatolia and Vinca Civilization.

T h e G r e a t S c h o l a r M A R I J A G I M B U T A S http://mmstudies.com/scholars/gimbutas/

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This symbol painted on a vase from the Cucuteni culture in north east Romania 4000 BC is, according to Marija Gimbutas, definitely the symbol of the Goddess of regeneration in the form of a double triangle shaped like an hourglass. ”

Unlike the Sumerians who had a complex social and religious stratification and who had signs for the Ab and Unug temple, the Minoans held rituals in nature, on mountain tops and in caves, as such they had no specific sign for the temple.

wikipedia Minoan religion <<… there is no evidence that Minoan religious practice was centered around formal public temples. Some scholars see the Minoan Goddess as a divine female solar figure. >>

See A-sa-sa-ra <> Asherah? Linguistic Evidence for a Phoenician Pillar Cult in Crete janes.scholasticahq.com ›article PDF

They had only signs associated with the sacred and goddess the chthonic mother, Ma and the astral Asasara. Sign found in the labrys sign found in the places and caves where the rituals were held. Sign associated with the temple / labyrinth, “da-pu-ri-to-yo Po-ti-ni-ya”. Used in places of worship of the mother goddess IDA (IDA-MATER), mistress. “That of Mount Dikte” (A-DI-KI-TE PO-TI-NI-JA) http://www.melampus.name/war-of-the-gods—minoan-mycenaean.html http: // http://www.melampus.name/uploads/8/3/2/1/8321682/c10_orig.jpg The Goddess as “Mistress of the animals” surmounted by a double-axis icon in an epiclesis.

Ooops! https://medium.com/@mwenge/i-da-ma-te-in-the-arkalochori-axe-44f935f03f6e

A marvel of Minoan finds: the double-ax of Arkalochori http://minoablog.blogspot.com/2010/03/marvel-of-minoan-finds-axe-of.html The ‘i’ vowel may be either part of the stem or a separate deictic particle (if I-DA-MA-TE is the same as DA-MA-TE, on KY Za 2). As for me, I suspect that this stem is originally without i- and it means ‘sanctuary’

Proposed conclusion: the sign represents (I) DA-MA-te: “SANCTUARY” or…

Anistoriton Journal, Vol 15 (2016-2017) In Situ 1 A 17th v. BC Minoan Votive Double Axis (Labrys)

The Arkalochori Ax and its siblings http://www.anistor.gr/english/enback/2016_1s_Anistoriton.pdf

Rather, a name as “damat” in Sumerian must be connected to the Sumerian “DAM” (husband), through which many Sumerian divine names began. …. DAM ”can mean“ husband ”and then“ year ”should be AN, the supreme god of the Sumerians, especially important in the city of Uruk and Crete which was colonized when Uruk was the dominant city of Sumer. …. Analogous is the inscription “nodamat” on small axes, of gold and silver: NO (hand) DAM (of the wife) of A (N) The supreme god TE the almighty (?). Here the two aspects of the divine are mentioned as DAM (feminine aspect, “yin”) and AN (masculine aspect, “yang”). >> eugenrau: … Somehow also there: sign <associated> with the wife of the supreme god

Otherwise tho proto-cuneiform sign DAM is https://cdli.ucla.edu/tools/SignLists/protocuneiform/archsigns.html

Similar Aegean sign 004: “FEM” (female / female) but not any woman but: DAM-A “WIFE OF THE SUPREME GOD” (? The forerunner of Damater, Hera and Diona?) ??… very very difficult, I choose:

CONCLUSION: Although in our thablet the upper trapezoid is bigger, and not as in the similar signs sum.AB: “house, temple” and UNUG: “temple”, I say that it is the Aegean sign DA-MATE: “OF THE DAMA/MOTHER,WIFE-SPOUSE” “SANCTUARY“. Being isolated it has the meaning of sanctuary in general.

On two Aegean signs and their pairs in sumerian proto-cuneiform. https://tartariatablets.com/2020/02/12/on-twoo-proto-cuneiform-and-paired-aegean-signs/

Image result for The Ornamental and Ritual Version of the Cretan Protolinear Script

Patrick C. Ryan “Proto-Language” sumerian sign GA2                                                                                                            From Archaeology of Food: An Encyclopedia Karen Bescherer Metheny, ‎Mary C. Beaudry file:///C:/Users/User/Downloads/Vessels_and_other_containers_for_the_sto.pdf                        “This frame or container sign is reletad to a symilar basket or box, namely the sign GA2”  From Sumerian Archaic Sign Table Patrick C. Ryan https://www.oocities.org/proto-language/SumerianSignValueRegister.htm                                                                                  “All available readings for Sumerian signs in Kurt Jaritz’ Schriftarchäologie der altmesopotamischen Kultur(1) (1967) have been listed in the Sumerian Sign Value Register. The sign numbers are those of Jaritz’ Schriftarchäologie der altmesopotamischen Kultur (1967)” Sign No. 458

with sign value https://www.oocities.org/proto-language/SumerianSignValueRegister.htm  ba4, ga2, ma3, pisan, sita.

From  https://www.sumerian.org/sumerian.pdf                                                                              << ” GA (pronounced nga,ñá): basketHOUSE; stable (cf., ñar) [GA2 archaic frequency: 125; concatenation of 5 sign variants].GA (nga,ñá): (cf., ñál, ñar, ñe26 and ma(3)) >>

SECOND COLUMN – THE SIGN “INSECT?” Sign v.problematic & difficult. A.A. Vaiman did not find the Sumerian proto-cuneiform equivalent, see the dance table: “signs No.4 (its meaning is unknown)” I did not find him identical in the Sumerian signs, only close ?. https://cdli.ucla.edu/tools/SignLists/protocuneiform/archsigns.html “AN” (An, Anu, “the heavenly god”)

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I did not find it identical in the Aegean writings. It resembles the hieroglyphic Cretan sign 068. Then it resembles, (but ours has 12 “rays”), and the 8-ray sign http://people.ku.edu/~jyounger/LinearA/#11%22 * 44 (KE )

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1.Symbol of “deity”? or symbol 2.‘consonant “Ke“ ?. Similar to the sign http://www.kairatos.com.gr/linear1.htm “Do / Du” That is, it resembles the sign below, interpreted here 3. “Zu” From https://linearbknossosmycenae.com/tag/cretan- hieroglyphics /

syllabary like Cretan pictograms

ZU:? A kind of harvest of (cereals)?

Here it appears as meaning Do or Du: http://www.kairatos.com.gr/linear1.htm

kairatos editions Αντώνης Θωμ. Βασιλάκης. Linear A, Linear B.

From http://minoablog.blogspot.com/2009/ << This exclusion rule can be applied to the Linear A sign * 79 (‘eye’) to show why it cannot represent the value ‘ZU’ (that was assigned to it by John Younger et al.). The case-ruling example we find on the tablet ZA4, row a.5 where the term QE-SI- * 79-E can be read. The same name recurs on tablet ZA15. Now, if the reading of * 79 were ‘ZU’, we would rather expect an ending ZU-WE (with a not well characterized linear A WE sign) and NOT ZU-E. On the other hand, the value suggested and used by many (e.g. Glen Gordon) for this linear A sign: ‘DO’, fits perfectly, as DO-E is absolutely possible. But the case of LinA * 79 has to approached with care. Apparently, there are two distinct LinearB signs (* 79 and * 14) corresponding to single cluster (* 79) Linear A. I label it as a cluster, as it contains signs of very variable design: it is easily possible that there are two signs lumped into a single cluster: at least one of these is (with resonably high probability) is the Linear A counterpart of Linear B ‘DO’ sign (Lin.B * 14). >>

CONCLUSION: Maybe risk, and although I have the highest respect for Mr. Andras Zeke

(Minoan language blog http://minoablog.blogspot.com/) and dance research, without any argument, however my option (as a novel !?) is for the meaning: “Zu” Hypothesis: Even in Romanian there is a connection between light and eyes; their faculty = “light of the eyes” Starting from the root I.E. for the light “Di” we reach Ziu, Zou, Zu, Zoia. See the Cretan locality “Zou to lako”

The Proto-Sumerian Language Invention Process by John A. Halloran https://www.sumerian.org/prot-sum.htm << zu, sú: n., wisdom, knowledge; v. to know, to understand, to inform, teach (in marû reduplicated form); to learn from someone (with -da-); to recognize someone (with -da-); to be experienced, qualified.>>

     v., to know; to understand; to inform, teach (in marû reduplicated form); to learn from someone (with -da-); to recognize someone (with -da-); to be experienced, qualified

CONCLUSION: “Zu =“ Zou, ZEitate ”(the graphic equivalent of the Sumerian sign AN)

3rd COLUMN – THE SIGN“ CAP-de-ASS ”. It appears for the first time in the Sumerians, the sign having the name AMAR and the meaning “calf”, this being a solar symbol for them. https://cdli.ucla.edu/tools/SignLists/protocuneiform/archsigns.html AMAR

This image has an empty alt attribute; its file name is AMAR.jpg

– Wiktionaryen.wiktionary.org ›wiki (būru) [AMAR]. calf. Derived termsEdit · 𒀭𒀫𒌓 (dAMAR.UTU, “Marduk”). SumerianEdit. NounEdit. 𒀫 (LOVE). calf · young, youngster, chick · son, descendant.

Found very similar in the Aegean writings. image from: CREWS Project – WordPress.com Cats in the Aegean Scripts

Cats in the Aegean Scripts

On the iconicity of Greek Mycenaean MA-KA

Maria Mertzani periodicos.unipampa.edu.br [PDF] 117-Text of article-201-1-10-20190715

117-Texto do artigo-201-1-10-20190715

V1.COMPARATIVE ENCYCLOPEDIC DICTIONARY OF MESOPOTAMIAN… books.google.com ›books Ama – Amar… Ama: Sumerian. Noun. Mother. Ima in Hebrew. Ama in ancient Syriac.

the Sumerian sign aMAr became the Minoan sign MA;

A 17th c. BC Minoan Votive Double Ax http://www.anistor.gr ›english› enback http://www.anistor.gr/english/enback/2016_1s_Anistoriton.pdf Ioannis K. Kenanidis, Ptychion (Philology / Linguist. ) Primary Education Directorate of Kavala.

<< 3 and 11: the well-known sign for ‘ma’, which describes the face of a calf (calf = amá (r) in

Sumerian); not the face of a cat as scholars are accustomed to. Indeed, the people of the cities are today

only familiar with cats and not with calves and even in ancient times there was a

reminiscent of a cat’s face (judging by the hieroglyphic seal [APPENDIX]), but

Sumerian-speaking users were aware that this described a calf. This is why the sign is without a mustache (even on the hieroglyphic seal [APPENDIX]). Also, the sign here doesn’t have it

human neck and ears of the human face of the ‘qa’ sign …… I saw this type of spelling in the inscription ‘a ma deŋejŋo’ (discussed in the ANNEX below) where the sign of the calf’s face (‘amá (r)’) was taken to involve “ama” (mother) and not “ma” as usual, even if the sign did not mean “calf” (“amá (r)”), but the homophone “ama” (“mother”). ). >>

CONCLUSION: “MA sign: meaning” MOTHER, MOTHER “(GODDESS-MOTHER)”

4th and LAST COLUMN Contains two signs starting from top to bottom:

-sign “(BULL-HEAD) -TAURUS”.                                                                                                                 About this sign No.14 ,, A.A. Vaiman did not enter anything in the table and otherwise only refers to it without proposing what it is: “V. The column is not divided into lines and does not contain numbers. There are two (or three?) Signs, no. 14 and 10 (fig.4), the latter being the same as the one that appears in line II 2. Not found exactly in this form in the Aegean script, but in an extremely similar form. The appearance and the realization on the tablet leave much to be desired. http://people.ku.edu/~jyounger/LinearA/#11%22 Hieroglyphic * 012

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a bull-head, becomes Linear AB 23 MU

SA / 6/113. it is very similar to the Aegean sign H / 12/21 “Mu” (see the eye in the head!). It resembles The Cretan Hieroglyphic table of signs, as suggested in the corpus inscriptions (Olivier and Godart 1996, 17). no.012 Conclusion: MU: “TAURUS” Note. If we take that rod shape that represents Cretan Hieroglyphic “U” would result Mu-U = MUU

-sign “BINDED TRAPEZES” Identical to the previous one, but I would like to return A.A. Vaiman could not identify him, (as can be seen in the dance table posted above AAVaiman’s table, from http://www.archeo.ru/izdaniya-1/archaeological-news/arheologicheskie-vesti/AV_03.pdf), although it shows that the closest Sumerian sign would be AB: “house, TEMPLE”. The strongest and oldest model for this form is the constellation Orion. Thus it becomes the oldest possible association. https://www.freepik.com/premium-vector/orion-constellation-illustration-scheme-constellation-stars-with-its-name_8027372.htm

Premium Vector | Orion constellation illustration. scheme of constellation  stars with its name.

Orion Constellation Myths of Sumer, Babylon and Egypt http://www.astronomytrek.com/orion-constellation-myths-of-sumer-babylon-and-egypt/ << For this urban civilization, the constellation represented its hero Gilgamesh, whose exploits were immortalized in the first piece of surviving heroic literature called The Epic of Gilgamesh. …. The Sumerians later honored the battle by presenting Gilgamesh in the celestial heavens as the constellation URU AN-NA (“light of heaven”) fighting a bull, identified as the modern constellation near Taurus. >>… from here, from the house, in fact the “living room”, comes the symbol of the temple of the supreme celestial deity, whatever it may be in different civilizations.

Bull of Heaven Heavenly Taurus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bull_of_Heaven <Some researchers consider the Bull of Heaven the same figure as Gugalanna, the husband of Ereshkigal mentioned by Inanna in the Descent of Inana into the underworld>

ANUjpreporter.net ›… <The Sumerian god Enki looks more like the serpent of Genesis and… Gud Anu Gud (Taurus) from Anu (Heaven / Universe). >>Bull of Heaven in Mesopotamian Sources – Culture and Cosmoswww.cultureandcosmos.org ›pdfs› 5-2-Soltysiak_Bull… PDF <The second constellation named after a bull is the Sumerian gud.an.na “bull of heaven”, equivalent to the Akkadian elu . In lexical texts it is separate ..>

Bull of Heaven in Mesopotamian Sources – Culture and Cosmoswww.cultureandcosmos.org ›pdfs› 5-2-Soltysiak_Bull… PDF <The second constellation named after a bull is the Sumerian gud.an.na ‘bull… and after a gap Inanna asks Taurus Cerului (gud.an.na)> eugenrau: Gud-anu <?> GUDEANU

CONCLUSION II: THE DWELLING, THE RESIDENCE OF THE SUPREME HEAVENITYNOW WE ARE “OBLIGED” TO INTERPRET THE ENTIRE COLUMN

For the simple reason that here the symbols are not separated by any line or box and have a meaning taken together. But on this occasion we encountered a great difficulty, as the final significance of these symbols is not certain. We have some presumptive combinations: the upper symbol: Heavenly Taurus / Sun or Asterios / Minotaur / Moon. The lower symbol: The Sun Goddess, the Sun Goddess or the symbol the wife of the supreme heavenly god

The celestial bull + his consort or Taurus / Minotaur / Moon + the sun (solar goddess) or the celestial TAURUS / supreme deity / THE SUN + his house, his TEMPLE, Orion >> CONCLUSION: THE TEMPLE OF THE HEAVENLY TAURUS, (THE SUN)

Statistics: Out of 8 signs, 2 are not found among the Aegean signs, 2 in identical form and 4 in close form.                                                                                                                                       =========== ROUND PERFORATED TABLET  ===========                                                           Picture from http://www.dacoromania-alba.ro/nr27/cultura_si_civilizatorii_la_tartaria.htm

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Circle divided into 4 quarters by a cross; we will take the quarters clockwise, the first located left-top:                                                                                                                                                            1-st QUARTER                                                                                                                                               Contains two signs: The sign “H with 3 horizontal bars/archaic eta-like”. There is somehow similar to the Sumerian sign proto-cuneiform Ku / Ga2, proto-Sinaitic Het, archaic Greek Heta, but also in Indus Script https://www.boloji.com/articles/11693/origin-and-etymology-of-the- valuations 12. <Sign

This image has an empty alt attribute; its file name is image040.jpg

: This sign is like a cradle which locally is called ‘dollar’ or ‘dolna’. The first letter of this word is ‘da’. The method of acrology is also applicable here.>

There is identical in the inventory of Aegean signs, the sign PA3 (PA, PAI) http://people.ku.edu/~jyounger/LinearA/#11%22

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Mycenaean | Minoan Linear A, Linear B, Knossos & Mycenae | Page 6linearbknossosmycenae.wordpress.com ›tag› page ›f… Next comes the supersyllabogram PA3 (PAI), 1.“ which probably refers to pa3ni / pa3nina / pa3niwi ”sau 2.” probably expected assessments or contributions ”“ PA3 appears on HT 9b, listing payments….

B / 17 / – “bronz” http://people.ku.edu/~jyounger/LinearA/#11%22 AES bronze / copper: * 140

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and A / 9/56, the “Pa3” sign It is not the bronze / copper sign because it has a short vertical bar on the right! The P? / D? As such there is no P at all and “D” only horizontally for volumetric measures, B / 15/110 “unit of volumetric measure”. : //linearbknossosmycenae.com/2016/09/29/measurement-of-17-conjectural-units-total-of-dry-and-liquid-volume-weight-in-minoan-linear-a/

Measurement of 17 conjectural units total of dry and liquid volume & weight  in Minoan Linear A | Minoan Linear A, Linear B, Knossos & Mycenae

In our country, the sign is not “blid” but is rotated 90gr beforehand. Or can the sign be 2. Symbol “moon” (as time)? https://linearbknossosmycenae.com/category/lessons-linear-b/

Latest opinion about Tartaria tablets /26Dec19 | Tartaria tablets

Otherwise it was returned to the Minoans: http://ancientlights.org/CalendarHouse/ch2.html

Calendar House: Chapter 2 - Into The Labyrinth

Interpreters: 1. PAI-MENO / PAIMEN> Poimen “pastor” https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Indo-European/peh₂- << Semantic shift from “protector” towards “shepherd, herder” can be seen in many branches, signifying the importance of herding. Unusual is the o-grade root in Greek ποιμήν (poimḗn, “shepherd, herdsman”), >> 2. PAMENOS Tradition and Transformation. Egypt under Roman Rule:… Recent research seriously doubts the sibling marriages in Roman Egypt, suggesting… of Apollonia alias Senmonthis, daughter of Ptolemaios alias Pamenos.

From ANISTORITON Journal of History, Archeology, ArtHistory: Viewpoints http: //www.a nistor.gr/english/enback/v053.htm One of the faces reads: Pa – me-ni po-lo 100 The foals (polo (i) ) for this year (pameni has the dative ending, but cf. Greek pammenos) Please also note that the… 3.signs PA- Moon> PA – MENI: ”ALL- MONTHs = (this) YEAR !! Rom. ”(Aquest) an” Wikipedia, Minoan Molds of Palaikastro

Minoan Moulds of Palaikastro - Wikipedia

So it would be added +++++ 5 days. It could be a lunar solar calendar, each quarter containing 3 months of 30 days and every year should be added +++++ 5 days. SFERTUL 2 contains:

-SIGN  +++++.

 It can represent the Aegean equivalents: 1. Number 15 Linear B decipherment: Linear B decipherment: credit where credit is due | dr dud’s dicta

Linear B decipherment: credit where credit is due | dr dud's dicta

2. “TE, 1.“ from ../ al .. ”3.Bindings of two signs A / 9/92“ Te ”A / 9/92 or A / 9/61“ Ne ”.So possible“ te- you ”=” did, the way ”? 3. Number “50”

–Two “D” signs Not existing in Sumerian proto-writing, the oldest occurrence is in the Old Elamite 2250 and 2220 IEN (see “u”, “ku”) https://omniglot.com/writing/elamite.htm A selection of Old Elamite symbols which have been deciphered:

Old Elamite

LINEAR ELAMITE WRITING François Desset http://www.researchgate.net List of accepted values ​​for LE signs identifications in the right column are uncertain The following is not good, it contains two signs in the mirror

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Indus script sign “Dha” https://www.boloji.com/articles/10657/a-new-light-on-the-decipherment-of

A New Light on the decipherment of Indus-Saraswati Script by Rajat K Pal

Origin and Etymology of the Valuations of Indus-Saraswati Signs by Rajat K Pal https://www.boloji.com/articles/11693/origin-and-etymology-of-the-valuations

Origin and Etymology of the Valuations of Indus-Saraswati Signs by Rajat K  Pal

Sign

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The valuation of this sign is ‘da’ / ‘dha’. The origin of this sign is the word ‘dhanuka’ which means bow with or without arrow. Through acrology the first letter ‘dha’ became the valuation of that sign.

It does not exist identically in the Aegean writings, only in the mirror http://people.ku.edu/~jyounger/LinearA/#11%22 L (A709) “value is unknown”

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1.Volumetric unit / cereal-straw portion https://linearbknossosmycenae.com/2015/02/19/mycenaean-linear-b-units-of-measurement-liquid-dry-weight-click-to-enlarge/

Mycenaean Linear B Units of Measurement (Liquid, Dry & Weight): Click to  ENLARGE | Minoan Linear A, Linear B, Knossos & Mycenae

Here we have a very big problem; the volume sign should be rotated 90gr counterclockwise. To the Sumerians the similar sign GAR (a D with an inner parallel line) reads ninda was initially in the plate dish- (horizontal) position, then they rotated it. Introduction Into the First Society – ppt download

Introduction Into the First Society - ppt download

Attention: The first “D” sign seems to contain the sign http://people.ku.edu/~jyounger/LinearA/#11%22 * 37 (TI)

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2.TE / TI, << “from / of” (Valério 2007), associated with agricultural products and people, usually in large quantities. So, assessments… >> engl. “From, of”, “evaluations”

two “O” signs or “oc” signs

1. The “o” sign found identically in The Cretan Hieroglyphic table of signs, as suggested in the corpus inscriptions (Olivier and Godart 1996, 17 ) sign no.073. Then in Linear A http://people.ku.edu/~jyounger/LinearA/#11%22 * 309 “shape O”

 In http://www.kairatos.com.gr/linear1.htm the sign “Qe”? Two Aegean signs of 100, so “200” from Cretan Hieroglyphs Numerals: A Brief Information |

Cretan Hieroglyphs Numerals: A Brief Information | Open Access Journals

 “oc” signs = Two phases of the four of the moon? The “C” sign has the equivalent H / 13/65 MINA or B / 15 / * 34 “month’s ration?”                                                                                          ALTHOUGH I COULD INTERPRET LIKE SUMERIANS, who obtained these signs by pressing, WHERE DDOO = 1, 1, 10, 10, cereal portions, I MEAN TO USE THE FACT THAT IN MINOIC “D” REPRESENTS THE UNIT OF MEASUREMENT VOLUME (LIKE THE BLENDER) AND THAT I COULD INTERPRET THE SIGNS “OO” AS “100 100”,                                                                                                I WILL NOT PROCEED LIKE THIS, BECAUSE THE RECTANGULAR TABLE COVERED EXACTLY THE HALF HALF OF THE ROUND ONE WHEN THE TABLETS ARE CARRIED TOGETHER, TOGETHER AND TOGETHER ESOTERIC MEANING OF THESE SEQUENCES “HD DDoc” and the interpretation will be:

HD = PA-MENI = ”all months” = ”YEAR” and DDOC are THE PHASES OF THE MOON.

QUADRANT 3 contains the signs:

eugenrau – Tartaria tablets

(image from Moonlight in Romania…) I could have read each sign separately considering that each is composed of elementary signs joined by ligature / connection. But you will see further (more obvious to you and easy to understand) by exemplifying the 2nd sign. that the signs are complex ideograms. – THE LEFT SIGN. A complex ideogram, an altar-like sign (with flame), but rather a “portable altar.” I did not find it identical in the Aegean inventory. It has an Aegean equivalent that is not identical, it looks like the “De” sign turned upside down! http://people.ku.edu/~jyounger/PHDisc/PHDiscSigns.html

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It is worth noting that this sign was proposed by Maria Gimbutas or Cosmas Theodorides e, Tanit. I didn’t find it exactly so representing “E” in the Vinca-Turdas civilization! http://studialphabetica.blogspot.com/2014/11/?m=0

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CONCLUSION: Religious ritual sign “(portable)Altar

THE SIGN ON HIS RIGHT: Another complex ideogram is not found in the identical form among the Aegean signs. It resembles the Larsa city seal, in fact the altar of the temple of the Sumerian deity Samas (the sun) in Larsa. http://enenuru.net/html/misc/cityseals.htm

What Are the Archaic Sumerian City Seals?

The sign also resembles the icon of the goddess Punic Tanit. http://studialphabetica.blogspot.com/2014/11/?m= https://ro.pinterest.com/pin/726064771152145821/

The Sign of Tanit on a Punic votive stele - Brought to you by the  Historyteller podcast. Click on the image to subscribe on … | Phoenician,  Stele, Ancient goddesses

Ritual and Worship at Knossos (Minoan Bronze Age) kzclip.com ›video› ritual-and-worship-at-knossos-mi… disk the words A-TA-I-WE-WA-JA or JA-SA-SA-RA -ME mean Asasara / Ishassara which is the goddess Astarte. M “Minoan Kingship and the Solar Goddess“

By the way, talking of sacrifice ritual, note that the tablet is shaped as a little loaf of bread,cake, bun-shaped… Imprints of the Neolithic mind — clay stamps from the Republic of Macedonia https://www.researchgate.net/publication/239927120_Imprints_of_the_Neolithic_mind_-_clay_stamps_from_the_Republic_of_Macedonia

Neolithic clay model loaves from Govrlevo (Photos by G. Naumov). | Download  Scientific Diagram
Neolithic clay model loaves from Govrlevo (Photos by G. Naumov)

From Those “bloody” Minoans… by Andras Zeke/Hu http://minoablog.blogspot.com/2011/ <<And thus we have arrived to the point to discuss a second theory about the meaning of A-SA-SA-RA-ME. It will be more in-line with the contemporary Minoan customs, but probably less pleasing to a faint-hearted reader. This possible explanation would be to compare A-SA-SA-RA-ME with the hieroglyphic Luwian word asḫarmis (plural: a-sa-ḫa+ra-mi-sa) = ‘offering’, ‘sacrifice‘ (or similar). Hittitologists tend to connect this word with Luwian asḫar- = ‘blood’, thus *asḫar-m-is- originally meaning ‘bloody sacrifice’. Whatever its orginal etymology was, it was used in a bit more generic sense in the Karkamiš inscriptions, since at least one of its mentions (see the figure) also involves sacrifice of bread, not just animals. Given the number of phrases in Minoan with possible Anatolian cognates, we should not be surprised to see yet another one added to the list. While the gemination of SA syllables is definitely problematic in Minoan (we must assume a development *-asḫa- → *-asaḫa- → *-asasa- upon borrowing – as Minoan might not have had the consonant ) and its stem-ending is different, a generic meaning ‘sacrifice’ would fit exceptionally well with *A-SA-SA-RA-M-. Should this identification be true, A-SA-SA-RA-ME could mean ‘of sacrifice‘ and conversely A-SA-SA-RA-MA-NA ‘sacrificial’. This could easily explain the universal use of these terms in religious contexts.>>

CONCLUSION: Aegean female astral deity “A-Sa-Sa-Ra” Conclusion / Interpretation: goddess “Asasara”

QUARTER 4,                                                                                                                                              Contains the following signs taken clockwise starting with the one on the top left:                                -the “BOW-and-ARROW” sign

 Identical found in the Christian Hieroglyphic Writing sign 048. http://people.ku.edu/~jyounger/PHDisc/PHDiscSigns.html

This image has an empty alt attribute; its file name is H048.jpg

Otherwise, in the Sumerian proto-cuneiform signs (sign Ba) and in the Anatolian alphabets (Carian: “i”). https://sites.google.com/site/collesseum/cretanscripts#_ftn1 << TO (P48, AB5, CC13 78, C TO) is a bow (toxon) with an arrow, but the curve was straightened, and the string was reduced to a small stroke …….

TO to(xos): bow (with arrow)

(PD11) PG48 LA39 L (A) B5 LC to CC8b, 9?

My suggestion is that the Linear A and B sign ultimately derives from a picture of a bow and arrow, Greek toxon.The Phaistos Disk glyph (PD 11, 1x) is a bow.Pictophonograph 48 (likewise one example only) is apparently a bow and arrow (though it might be a bird with a long neck, hence LA / B KU ?!). If neither of these pictographs are connected with toxon (bow), then my case for LA / B TO is difficult to argue.Nevertheless , the LB form could be a reduction of an original drawing of a bow and arrow: two parallel horizontal lines represent the bow, while the arrow is the vertical line below them and bisecting them (the top line is thus the bowstring). >>

The Undeciphered Signs of Linear B: Interpretation and… books.google.com ›books› isbn = 1108494722Two possible Linear A antecedents have been suggested for twe: AB87 and A305 (Figure 2.4). … 234 No Cretan Hieroglyphic correspondences are suggested by CHIC: 19 or… Cretan Hieroglyphic 048 has a broadly similar form, but as this sign’s central ‘arrow’ does not appear in either of the potentially related Linear A signs or in Linear B twe a connection is not likely likely.

https://www.matec-conferences.org/articles/matecconf/pdf/2017/39/matecconf_cscc2017_05018.pdf Cretan Hieroglyph symbols and their IPA phonetic values. sign 048 = ”i”

file: /// C: / Users / User / Downloads / Decorte_R_P_J_E_2018_The_Origins_of_Bron% 20 (1) .pdf << The CHIC editors themselves consider # 048 as most likely Linear A: “we are inclined to think that it is linear A ”, citing Brice 1992 >>

Phaistos Disk Deciphered? Not Likely, Say Scholars – Biblical… http://www.biblicalarchaeology.org ›archeology-today› ph… In a TEDx talk in Heraklion on the Greek island of Crete, Gareth Owens… script (Egyptian Hieroglyphs), as well as a translation of that text into Greek. … Equate to the MLA sign AB41 (si) and the CHS sign CHIC # 048 and # 049.

Upon Andras Zeke http://minoablog.blogspot.com/2010/02/how-to-read-minoan-hieroglyphics.html The Cretan Hieroglyphic Signs and their Suspected

Linear A Equivalents # 048, 049 ‘archery’ signs (141) = AB41 / and

CONCLUSION: sign “Si”

The sign “>>”                                                                                                                                              I found it in the exact form in the inventory of Aegean signs in the form “>” only on the Faistos disc (see No. 18): https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/53d6/370fac2ec6843740b9c0546632eeb5b5fbb4. pdf

An Application of Software Engineering for Investigating the Language of  Phaistos Disk 1. Introduction

http://people.ku.edu/~jyounger/PHDisc/PHDiscSigns.html Sign 18

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According to scientist Andis Kaulins-reading,> = Nw (No)

The “schematic-Z” sign.                                                                                                                                      It exists in exact form in the Aegean inventory, the A / 9/2 sign, the “Pa” sign http://people.ku.edu/~jyounger/LinearA/#11%22 * 03

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“PA should be an abbreviation for a term modifying people…”

STATISTICS/Round tablet. Of the 12 signs, 3 are not found in identical form in the Aegean signs, 4 in identical form, and about 5 in similar form. TOTAL ALL 3 tablets:                                                                                           There are not at all in Aegean and exact shape: 6 Identical :7, similar :10,                                                                                 SO THE STATISTICS INDICATELY DECIDE for THE PRESENCE ON THE TABLETS OF AN AEGEAN WRITING.

Ultima sansa a tablitelor de la Tartaria !?

December 6, 2020

Ultima sansa data tablitelor de la Tartaria !?

Suna aiurea, emfatic, adica cum, cui dau eu o sansa, omenirii, culturii mondiale? De fapt mi-o dau mie,  pentru ca este vorba in esenta doar de efortul meu continuu si consistent de pe parcursul a circa 11 ani. In eventualitatea unor progrese notabile, de-bea  atunci se poate vorbi de o contributie la Cultura Europeana sau Egeeana spre exemplu. Ce m-a determinat sa reiau demersul? Faptul ca am epuizat o serie de ipoteze concretizate printr-o serie de citiri-test, neacceptand fara reserve niciuna. Apoi mi s-au sedimentat gandurile cumva si mi-am dat seama ca dintre toate ipotezele, putine mai exact doar una are sanse reale. Aceasta datorita unei serii de motive in principal stiintifice, dar nu numai.

DE CE AM ELIMINAT COMPLET IPOTEZA SUMERIANA

Semnele de pe tablite, comparate cu oricare din sistemele de scriere din lume, intr-adevar semnele seamana cel mai mult cu cele proto-cuneiforme sumeriene. Cu ani in urma nici nu stiam de existent lor, dar dupa ce am aflat de ele si le-am vazut, parca mi s-ar fi deschis noi porti si orizonturi. Nu numai eu am vazut asemanarea asta ci si altii inaintea mea, (1965) cercetatori de cel mai inalt nivel in domeniu .(Adam Falkenstein/Germania Zu den Tontafeln aus Tartaria, (1965) si Aizik Abramovici Vaiman/URSS) Dar si ei si eu am spus fiecare in felul lui ca numai seamana. https://de.suenee.cz/zahada-tartarijskych-hlinenych-tabulek                                                  <<In 1965 brachte der deutsche Sumerologe Adam Falkenstein die … dass die Texte in Tartaria unter dem Einfluss von Sumer entstanden sind.>> Ei de o maniera mai ocolitoare si eleganta, (Vaiman:”scriere quasi-sumeriana“) eu mai hotarat si aratand mai mult decat ei si adaugand inca un numar de mai multe indicii concrete. Археологические вести. Спб, 1994. Вып. 3. Аннотации …www.archeo.ru › … › Annotations of issues A. A. Vaiman. On the QuasiSumerian tablets from Tartaria

Nu-mi explic de ce dansii nu au procedat si sa-si exprime opinia de o maniera mai hotarata, ci au preferat o abordare asa, “cu duhul blandetii“. Ei care ar fi trebuit sa vada mai bine decat mine care semn si cat, in ce masura seamana cu corespondentul sumerian. Dar fiind specializati in proto-scrierea sumeriana nici nu le-a trecut prin cap sa vada daca cumva seaman cu cele mai vechi semne si scrieri Egeene. Au luat semnele in ipoteza “daca ar fi sumeriene” si le-au interpretat in consecinta. Toate interpretarile acestor savanti cu expertiza in asirologie dar cu inalta specializare in domeniul scrierii proto-cuneiforme au obtinut rezultate f. bune asemanatoare intre ele si asemanatoare cu interpretarea mea. Al 3-lea, Rumen Kolev/Bulgaria a obtinut la fel rezultate foarte bune, chiar intr-un fel i-a depasit, chiar daca am impresia a fost influentat de cercetarile acelora care au precedat-o pe a sa. Insa repet, el are contributia personala valoroasa in interpretare.

ПЛОЧКИТЕ ОТ ТАРТАРИЯ И ЧАШАТА ОТ СУВОРОВО – ДВА „НАДПИСА” НА РАННАТА ДУНАВСКА КУЛТУРА И РАЗШИФРОВАНЕТО ИМ Румен Колев http://www.su-varna.org/izdanij/Magazin%201%20conf/Pages%20from%2046%20to%2053.pdf Fara falsa modestie interpretarea mea este mai completa decat a tuturor acestora, si facuta cu mai mare acuratete. Am fost surprins sa observ cum ceilalti cercetatori nu au recunoscut unele semne, altele interpretate gresit si  inca alte “amanunte” de genul asta. Motivele eliminarii ca fiind sumeriene sant multe, majoritatea de ordin ethnic (vre-o 10 la numar) privind forma concreta a semnelor in sine, dar si de tehnica specificascrierii” sumerienilor. Insa motivul principal a fost excluderea posibilitatii ca niste obiecte friabile sa fie aduse de cineva de la asemenea distanta, fie vorba in extremis ca loc mai apropiat si de Siria. Hotaratoare a fost constatarea si deductia ca tablitele ori au fost inscriptionate in perioada 3.200-2.800 IEN ori dupa 1925. De ce? Simplu: in tot acest interval “intre”, nici-un om de pe globul pamantesc nu a putut sa vada vre-una din ele fiind ingropate la metri de pamant/moloz sub un temple din Uruk(Warka) NOTA: Scribul, autorul a gasit cu cale, deci in mod intentionat, ca sa creeze in tablita rotunda dar si in tablita dreptunghiulara gaurita o compartimentare a simbolurilor, aparent dupa modelul sumerian. In orice caz, cel putin in cazul tablitei dreptunghiulare gaurite sumerienii nu procedau asa; daca realizau compartimente, coloane in nici-un caz nu izolau numai doua sau chiar cate un singur simbol, asa cum se intampla in tablita noastra dreptunghiulara gaurita. Asta ne conduce la interpretarea separata a simbolurilor in fiecare din compartimentele realizate, fie ca un compartiment contine doua semne sau doar unul. Asta inseamna ca aveau cate o semnificatie distincta, sacra deci cu mare importanta, si posibil se aplecau pe rand asupra lor in timpul presupuselor ritualuri religioase. Aceasta usureaza interpretarea (era sa zic citirea) intrucat in cazul proto-scrierii se poate extrage numai un intelesgrosier si nu unul concret, explicit si clar ca in cazul scrierii.

Obiectele ceremoniale și ritualice au fost utilizate ca un mijloc pentru stabilirea sau menținerea comunicării între sacru (domeniul transcendent sau supranatural) și profan (domeniul timpului, spațiului și cauzei și efectului). Ocazional, astfel de obiecte au fost folosite pentru a constrânge tărâmul sacru (sau divin) să acționeze sau să reacționeze într-un mod care este favorabil participanților la ceremonii sau persoanelor sau activităților cu care se referă astfel de ritualuri sau pentru a preveni ca tărâmul transcendent sa duca la rănirea sau punerea lor în pericol. Aceste obiecte pot fi astfel dispozitive de mediere pentru a contacta lumea divină.

PROBLEMATICA VECHIMII TABLITELOR SI A TIPULUI DE SCRIS

Initial arheologii romani au stabilit ca tablitele provin dintr-un strat Vinca din neolitic si au stabilit ca provenind de pe la 5.300 IEN. Initial au vorbit de originea scrisului in aria Danubiana, (Merlini:”Scrittura e nata in Europa?”/Scrisul s-a nascut in Europa?) pentru ca mai apoi la scurt timp sa coboare din spatiile celeste si sa vorbeasca de o scriptura. Scriptura nu inseamna scris propriu-zis gen vechile Scripturi, ci un script inseamna o colectie de semne. Desi denumirea conduce la idea de semne facute cu mana, nu este necesar acest lucru, vezi discul de la Faistos. Acesta contine o colectie de semne,scriptura dar sant imprimate cu ceva gen stampile.Dupa aceea a inceput o controversa, de fapt discutii aprinse in privinta datarii.Majoritatea cercetatorilor, primul fiind Nicolae Vlassa le-au atribuit o origine mai degraba in intervalul 2700-2400 IEN.

The tablets of Tǎrtǎria. An enigma ? A reconsideration and …www.persee.fr › dha_0755-7256_1993_num_19_1_2073… Vlassa in a subsequent paper, dated the tablets “around (2700 ?) 2600-2400 B.C.”, ironically naming the adepts of radiocarbon dating as ‘radiocarbonists” (Vlassa 1970 ..

Nu incerc sa lamuresc: cu ce expertiza si pe ce baza a afirmat ca semnele se apropie (este f. adevarat) de cele din perioada Jemdet Nasr !? De notat ca nicaieri in lume nu s-a gasit nici-o singura proto-scriere inainte de 3.500 IEN. Cele mai vechi au aparut in Sumer, Iran si Egipt, quasi-simultan in jurul (dar nu mai devreme!) a 3.500 IEN, urmate apoi de scierile Proto-Elamita si scriptul de pe Valea Indusului.

https://sites.utexas.edu/dsb/tokens/tokens/

(Fig. 4)  Impressed tablet from Godin Tepe, Iran, ca. 3100 BC. courtesy Cuyler Young Jr.,  Royal Ontario Museum, Toronto. The small circular signs stand for 1 large measure of grain, the wedges for a small measure of grain.
Fig. 4) Impressed tablet from Godin Tepe, Iran, ca. 3100 BC. courtesy Cuyler Young Jr., Royal Ontario Museum, Toronto. The small circular signs stand for 1 large measure of grain, the wedges for a small measure of grain.

Harappa.com 62. How old is the oldest ancient Indus writing? Asko Parpola: “The earliest examples of Indus writing are from the Early Harappan Kot Diji period, which at Harappa is dated to c. 2800-2600 BCE.”

Pentru toate acestea, tipul de scris este proto-scriere, in care se folosesc ideograme si logograme. Scrierea cuneiforma a aparut dupa 2800 I.E.N.Cel mai apropiat exemplu este proto-scrierea sumeriana in carese folosesc semne proto-cuneiforme. O “curiozitate” (de fapt mai mult decat atat si poate mai grava) este aparenta prezentei pe cele trei tablite in mod simultan, cate una pe fiecare, a trei tipuri de scriere: pictographica, ideografic-logografica si silabar-alfabetica. Acest fapt ar trebui sa ridice mari semne de intrebare, insa nu va vine sa credeti, nimeni nu si-a batut capul cu asta. Pentru mine reprezinta mai mult decat o ciudatenie, necunoscand o alta instanta de acest fel in lume. Este ca si cum cineva ar fi vrut sa arate altcuiva evolutia scrisului sau/si tototata sau autorul sa-si “etaleze” cunostintele in domeniu. In mod normal ma asteptam ca autorul sa foloseasca un singur tip de scriere si anume acela al epocii si timpului sau ! In acest fel de prezentare al autorului in care mai degraba a etalat o colectie de semne face spre imposibila o interpretare unitara (o singura poveste, mesaj legat) a intregului set de trei tablite.

PROBLEMA AUTENTICITATII

Au existat multe elemente faptice care ne convine sau nu, vin sa puna la indoiala autenticitatea lor (absenta descoperitorului in momentul descoperirii, absenta vre-unui martor, incertitudinea privind stratul de care apartin, arderea in cuptor>>imposibilitatea datarii cu C14, etc.) Faptul ca jumatatea de sus a tablitei rotunde contine semne care au aparut mult mai recent si nu au existat ca si semne sumeriene proto-cuneiforme cel putin, m-a facut pe mine inca sa pun si mai mult la indoiala autenticitatea lor. Prezenta semnelor din jumatatea de sus a tablitei rotunde in alfabetele arhaice grecesti si detectarea de catre altii si mine ca autorul nu stapanea scrisul ( dupa unii era fix iliterat) au contribuit la aceasta suspiciune. Eu am dedus posibilitatea ca autorul sa fi stiut sa scrie, dar numai folosind semnele pe care le stia bine si cu care stia sa scrie:”literele arhaice grecesti”, prezente in jumatatea de sus a tablitei rotunde (HD ; D D o?/c?). Chiar si asa se poate explica, de ce purtate impreuna la gat (atarnate de un snur), tablita dreptunghiulara acopera jumatatea de sus a celei rotunde. ! Ca sa nu poata fi citita de trecatori ! De aceea, si cu atat mai mult, recunosc ca am inceput sa suspectez cercul din jurul Zsofiei Torma si in special pe cel din jurul lui N.Vlassa fara sa gasesc  vre-un indiciu sau prezumtiv vinovat cat de cat. De fapt cunoasterea si folosirea unor semne foarte vechi presupune ca pe o cale sau alta, cel care a inscriptionat semnele sa aiba idee de ele, macar in mare.Oricum este sigur ca a avut idee de ele numai “in mare”. Chiar si acest lucru nu este absolut posibil daca autorul ar fi pe undeva pe aproape de zilele noastre. Se pare ca, chiar si in perioada 800-300 IEN atat semnele proto-cuneiforme  sumeriene cat si cele incipiente Egeene erau necunoscute, ambele scrieri fiind ingropate.Cele sumeriene au fost gasite/dezgropate  prin 1925/Woolley iar cele Egeene ceva inainte de 1900/A.Evans. O DILEMA A CAREI REZOLVARE POATE FACE LUMINA IN PROBLEMA AUTENTICITATII Exista doua situatii din care numai una poate fi cea reala: 1. Tablita rotunda contine in jumatatea superioara semne, numere de origine si factura sumeriana, pentru o tranzactie comerciala sau litere arhaice grecesti. Este evident ca nu exista nici-un motiv ca acestea sa fie ascunse. Ar insemna ca autorul nici nu a avut in intentie sa le ascunda; faptul ca tablita rotunda ar fi acoperita pe jumatate de cea dreptunghiulara este o pura intamplare. 2. Autorul a avut in intentie sa acopere mesajul de pe jumatatea superioara a celei rotunde. Santem implicit fortati sa gasim un motiv pentru ascunderea semnelor. Semnele in aceasta ipoteza, ar trebui sa provina din aria Egeeana. Este imposibil sa avem o certitudine care varianta este cea reala. Cu atat ma expun unui risc major cand stim ca majoritatea inscriptiilor extrem de vechi (ex. la sumerieni) au un continut administrativ. Pentru ca mi-am propus din start sa acord o ultima sansa interpretarii lor avand la baza scripurile Egeene, e clar ca trebuie sa merg pe a 2-a varianta. De asemenea exista doua aspecte sper eu numai aparent ireconciliabile: – prezenta pe tablete a unor semne clar sumeriene, exemplu semnele “Ab”,”Amar” etc. (tablita dreptunghiulara gaurita) pe de o parte si – prezenta pe tablete a semnelor Eta, Delta/Rho, omicron,lunate sigma (in jumatatea superioara a tablitei rotunde) Situatia aceasta, trebuie sa spun cu toata amaraciunea, ma face sa ma simt ca fac o cercetare a unui camp infractional.

CARE ESTE APROAPE UNICA IPOTEZA CU SANSE REALE, SI DE CE.

Dupa ipoteza prezentei a unor semne asemanatoare celor sumeriene, cea mai apropiata scriere d.p.d.v. al proximitatii ariei si vechimii este cea a prezentei unor semne “Proto-Lineare” Egeene. Am fost placut surprins si mi s-a deschis o noua perspective cand am luat cunostinta de studiile cercetatorilor greci I.Papakitsos si G.Kenanidis. Acestia sustin ca inceputurile scrierii in aria Egeeana se datoreaza pur si simplu prezentei unor primi colonizatori sumerieni.

A 17th c. BC Minoan Votive Double Axe (Labrys). The Arkalochori Axe and its siblings http://www.anistor.gr/english/enback/2016_1s_Anistoriton.pdf << Pentru a spune că inscriptia A.a.(Archalokori Axe) aparține Liniarului A ar fi cel puțin neprecisă, din două motive: documentele Liniare A existente utilizează, așa cum spune și numele, semne liniare, în timp ce semnele toporului sunt mai picturale, cu o orientare nu atât de strictă1 și mai plate, bi‐
dimentionale ; și, inscriptiile Linear A existente, de obicei, transmit limbi non-sumeriene utilizate de naționalitățile non-sumeriene care trăiesc în Creta minoică, în timp ce acest topor, la fel ca toate C.H. documente, este o apariție a unei inscripții originale de către sumerieni minoici.>>

Eu am testat o incercare de interpretare a semnelor folosind semnele Egeene. Paradoxal, interpretarea nu este extrem de departe de interpretarile sumeriene. De ce? Pentru ca unele ideograme au o semnificatie asemanatoare la Sumerieni si la Egeeni.Pe atunci, secventa de semne DDoo a fost pentru mine un obstacol insurmontabil. Pentru ca semne “D” nu au existat  la sumerieni dar nici in aria egeeana inainte de 1000 IEN. Acestea au aparut in scrierea proto-sinaitica pe la 1.000 IEN si in aria Egeeana inca si mai tarziu, dupa 1.000 IEN (600-800IEN Chalcis) . Zilele trecute am vazut o lucrare in care se treceau in revista toate semnele din toate tipurile de scrieri antice Egeene, chiar facandu-se in ea comparatii intre ele:

MINOAN LINEAR A Original title of the first edition (Sheffield 1987):THE ONOMASTICS OF THE ‘MINOAN LINEAR A’ AND ‘LINEAR B’ DOCUMENTS AND THEIR HISTORICAL SIGNIFICANCE  by Peter George van Soesbergen.                                                                                           Atunci mi-am dat seama incaodata, dar mai mult ca semnele pentru care nu gasesc echivalent printre cele Egeene sant extreme de putine. Asta pe de o parte, iar pe de alta, chiar cu o initial presupusa lipsa a unora, este lipsit de sens sa nu fac acest demers.Spre deosebire de data trecuta, cand am facut o incercare de testare folosind semnele Egeene, acum nu-mi propun un tel atat de avansat ca acela al interpretarii tablitelor.In prima faza ma voi rezuma in a incerca sa gasesc fiecarui semn echivalentul in scrierile Egeene.Prin asta voi putea eventual demonstra originea lor.Interpretarea as putea-o lasa pentru faza II-a a cercetarii mele. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Aceste doua situatii, (ca sant semne quasi-sumeriene “ca-si-sumeriene”, cu aparenta de semne sumeriene) si cea in care sant semne asemanatoare celor Egeene, de factura Egeeana, creeaza doua situatii distincte cu consecinte de importanta covarsitoare:

Prima situatie ofera conditiile pentru o interpretare facila, intrucat semnele seamana cumva mai mult cu cele sumeriene, semne ce se pot gasi mai usor in biblioteca de semne sumeriene proto-cuneiforme. Semnificatia lor pare a fi cunoscuta destul de bine de specialisti. Dar asta inseamna totodata ca cineva cu intentie sau fara a produs niste artefacte care “vor sa para” ceva. Asta implica ideea si consecinta paractica de a insela si posibila existenta mai mult sau mai putin a unor falsuri. Aceasta situatie am atacat-o si am aratat cum si de ce multe semne doar par a fi sumeriene si am oferit o interpretare asemanatoare cu cele oferite de specialisti de top. Nota-bene, semnele proto-cuneiforme apartin proto-scrierii (ideograme si logograme) si deci neaapartinind scrierii nu foloseasca o limba (in acest caz sumeriana).Asta nu inseamna ca multor semne sa nu le fi asociat sumerienii si un corespondent fonetic.

A doua situatie face demersul dupa mine mai dificil, pentru ca aici avem atat ideograme cat si silabograme. Scrierile Cretan-hieroglifica si Linear A sant inca apartin la ora actuala inca categoriei scrierilor nedescifrate.Va trebui sa arat si sa tin o evidenta a semnelor care nu se gasesc in forma identica printre cele Egeene, cele identic-Egeene si cele asemanator-Egeene pentru care trebuie sa gasesc cea mai apropiata echivalenta grafica posibila. ========== SCRIERILE EGEENE ========== Din How undeciphered is an undeciphered script? – Oxbow Bookswww.oxbowbooks.com › oxbow › blog › 2017/07/14 << Scrierea în Grecia din epoca bronzului. Sistemele de scriere care au supraviețuit din această perioadă sunt toate silabice (adică fiecare semn reprezintă o silabă întreagă, nu doar o literă) și se află în diferite etape ale „descifrării”. Scrierea hieroglifica cretana. (2.100-1.700 I.E.N.) Supraviețuiește în c.300 de inscripții și rămâne foarte puțin înțeleasa, deși știm puțin despre relația sa cu celelalte scripturi. O problemă este că inscripțiile sunt adesea decorative și este dificil de spus cum să le citiți – prezintă câteva probleme similare cu scrierea Maya decorativă. Deși unele semne arată similar cu cele din liniarele A și B, ceea ce înseamnă că le putem ghici valorile, natura lor „picturală” este destul de diferită de formele mai abstracte ale semnelor din celelalte sisteme. Scrierea Liniara A (1.800-1.450 I.E.N.)
Liniarul A supraviețuiește în aproximativ 1.500 de inscripții, multe tăblițe de lut și sigilii, deși au fost înscriptionate și alte articole precum bijuterii, ceramică și vase de piatră. De obicei este etichetata ca „nedescifrata”, dar aceasta este un bun exemplu de scriptura în care am putea citi secvențe cu voce tare în mod rezonabil precis, deoarece multe dintre semnele sale sunt împărtășite (împreună cu valorile lor) de scrierea Linear B descifrata ulterior. Cu toate acestea, nu înțelegem limbajul inscripțiilor, decât faptul că putem stabili semnificația unui cuvânt din contextul său (mai ales cuvântul pentru „total”, ku-ro, care apare la sfârșitul listelor). Scrierea Liniara B (1.450-1.200 I.E.N.) Supraviețuiește în aproximativ 6.000 de inscripții și este singurul script descifrat complet din epoca bronzului din Marea Egee. Michael Ventris a fost cel care a spart codul și și-a anunțat descifrarea în 1952, demonstrând că limba scrisă în Liniar B a fost o formă timpurie a limbii grecesti. Aproape toate exemplele care au supraviețuit sunt documente administrative din lut și, pentru că înțelegem conținutul lor, putem extrage din ele o multitudine de informații istorice despre economia lumii miceniene. >> NOTA: Pentru ca este foarte dificil sa extrag semnele echivalente Egeene si sa vi le arat, sa le pun poza, unele (putine) din semnele echivalente gasite in scrierile Cretana Hieroglifica, Linear A si Linear B, le voi extrage din lucrarea indicata mai sus. Semnul va fi indicat de mine: Tipul de scriere/pagina/nr. semn, ex Linear A/pag12/semn 5 va fi A/12/5. ======= Suprapunerile dintre scriptul cretan și alte scripturi, cum ar fi scripturile hieroglifice din Cipru și țările hitite din Anatolia, pot sugera … că toate au evoluat dintr-un strămoș comun, un script pierdut acum, originar din Siria. ====== In cazul unui demers cu rezultate notabile in privinta unei interpretari folosind semnele Egeene, rezulta in mod implicit o vechime a tablitelor de maxim 2.800 I.E.N. Asemanarea unui mic numar de semne (trapeze ligaturate, arc cu sageata, ..) mai mult cu cele sumeriene decat cu cele Egeene ar putea fi un indicator al prezentei unei puternice influente timpurii sumeriene. La o adica tablitele de la Tartaria ar putea servi D-lor Papakitsos si Kenanidis ca argument si cea mai buna evidenta fizica in sprijinul lucrarilor de cercetare ale dansilor prin care se sustine o puternica influenta Sumeriana pentru inceputurile scrisului in aria Egeeana. Ba chiar mai mult, ca scrisul a fost introdus in aria Egeeana in Creta direct din Sumer, o parte din primii minoani fiind de fapt migranti din Sumer.

INSCRIPTIILE AU FOST FACUTE DE UN SUMERIAN MINOIC

Din Creta, Ciclade,….Anatolia sau Levant (Siria) nu stim.

(PDF) Some syllabograms of the animal category in the … http://www.researchgate.net › publication › 340771705_Some_… Some syllabograms of the animal category in the Cretan Protolinear Script Ioannis K. Kenanidis Evangelos C. Papakitsos <<Prezentul studiu se concentrează pe dovezi lingvistice care demonstrează originile acelor coloniști estici care au inițiat civilizația minoică arătată a fi legată de cultura arhaică sumeriană prin trăsăturile scripturilor Egeene.>>

Minoan Sumerian | Giannhs Kenanidhs – Academia.edu http://www.academia.edu › Minoan_Sumerian A Comparative Linguistic Study about the Sumerian Influence on the Creation of the Aegean Scripts Ioannis K. Kenanidis1, Evangelos C. Papakitsos*2 <<Sumerienii s-au dovedit a fi excelenți comercianți și coloniști în întregul Orient Apropiat, chiar și la sfârșitul perioadei Uruk [56]. Potrivit lui Kramer [57]: „… Până în al treilea mileniu î.Hr., există motive întemeiate să creadă că cultura și civilizația sumeriană aveau pătruns, cel puțin într-o oarecare măsură, până în Orient-India și in vest până la Marea Mediterană, la fel Sudul Etiopiei antice și până la nord la MareaCaspică ”.Creta era cunoscută de Mesopotamia cel puțin încă din era lui Sargon cel Mare, care a trăit aproximativ între secolele 24 și 23 î.Hr. [58].>>

…. Pentru prima oara am aflat de o posibila intruziune a sumerienilor in Europa (Creta) cu rezultat practic aparitia scriptelor Cretan Hieroglific si Linear A de factura ideografic-consonantica urmate apoi de scrierea linear B, consonantica=silabar, din lucrarile cercetatorilor greci E.C.Papakitsos si I.K.Kenanidis. Dansii vorbesc de o scriptura proto-lineara care care a fost precursorul celorlalte. Ei, tocmai in aceasta au incercat sa arate evidente privind un aport si influenta initiala sumeriana.

(PDF) Minoan Sumerian | Giannhs Kenanidhs – Academia.edu http://www.academia.edu › Minoan_Sumerian A Comparative Linguistic Study about the Sumerian Influence on the Creation of
the Aegean Scripts
Ioannis K. Kenanidis1, Evangelos C. Papakitsos*2

Scriptul protoliniar ipotetizat este format din 120 silabograme ale modelelor V și CV, așa cum au fost găsite în scripturi Linear-A / B, câte una pentru fiecare silabă a unui dialect apropiat de limba arhaică sumeriană. ….Deci, avem un script de icoane simplificate (semne), care descriu elemente, unde valoarea fonetică a
fiecare semn este legat de cuvântul arhaic sumerian pentru obiectul descris. Multe dintre ele sunt legate de semne asociate ale hieroglificului cretan, de asemenea cu Pictograme sumeriene și uneori cu cuneiforme echivalente. ….Studiul comparativ a fost realizat în paralel, incluzând patru factori:
 obiectul zugravit și semnul lui in scriptura Egeeana,
 relația și similitudinea semnului anterior cu cel sumerian echivalent,
 valoarea fonetică atribuită semnului din Scriptul Egeean,
 asemănarea valorii fonetice anterioare cu cuvinte sumeriene care denotă obiectul descris. …..Urmând metodologia menționată mai sus, întregul set de semne Linear-A / B poate fi identificat ca
cuvinte sumeriene monosilabice (rareori disilabice) denumind obiectelor descrise, notând că în sumeriană
un cuvant monosilabic are in incheiere o consoană (adică CV-C) ….

An Application of Systems Science in Humanities: Investigating the Origins of the Minoan Civilization http://www.sumerianz.com › pdf-files › sjss2(4)33-44 PDF Evangelos C. Papakitsos University of West Attica, Greece

<< Prin urmare, o perioadă adecvată de sosire a primilor coloniști sumerieni in Creta poate fi definită între 2800-2600 î.Hr. …. 3.3.1. Rute de migrare
Analiza genomică a populațiilor europene și dezvoltarea asociată a practicilor lactate indică
fermierii din Orientul Mijlociu au imigrat treptat în Europa în timpul neoliticului, prin Anatolia și
Grecia
. Această rută a fost întotdeauna cea mai apropiată de Europa, în orice caz de agitație istorică din Orientul Mijlociu, evident și în zilele noastre. 3.3.3. Rute comerciale ….. Distanța de la teritoriile nordice sumeriene la coasta de nord a Levantului, călătorind în amonte de râul Eufrat, este la doar 800 km (cititorul curios poate cu ușurință sa verifice aceste rute utilizând facilitatea de calculare a distanței unui program relevant precum Google-Earth). Acest traseu a fost binecunoscut mesopotamienilor, nu numai din perioada Uruk, ci chiar înainte de aceasta, în perioada Ubaid. … Până în 3000 î.Hr., Sumer fusese centrul unei „globalizări” tranzacționale. Cea mai importantă tranzacționare pentru tehnologia epocii bronzului a fost cea a staniului. Au existat rețele extinse de tranzacționare în acest scop. Alte minerale și materiale ca și chihlimbarul au fost, de asemenea, importate și rutele lor comerciale s-au extins din Scandinavia pana in Cipru. Activitatea comercială in special, nu include doar schimbul de bunuri, ci de asemenea, schimbul de informații și, eventual, un schimb de delegații de experți sau agenți pentru evaluarea bunurilor comercializate.

3.5. Dovezi antropologice (Cine erau)
Au existat diferite încercări ale oamenilor de știință din multe discipline (arheologie; lingvistică; antropologie) de a identifica originile minoicilor. Homer (Odiseea: XIX, 172-180) menționează cel puțin cinci grupuri etnice (sau subetnice în cazul aheilor și dorienilor), fiecare vorbind propria limbă sau respectiv dialect (respectiv,
Ahei, Eteocretani, Kydonieni, Dorieni și Pelasgi). Herodot (Ι.173.1) menționează că în vremurile vechi
întreaga Cretă era locuită de „barbaroi”, însemnând în mod clar „străini” (adică non-greci; nu „barbari” în
sens modern al „sălbaticilor”). Owens susține descendența națională a populației minoice în opozitie cu Duhoux, care menționează pasajul de mai sus al lui Homer pentru justificarea mediului multinațional in
Creta preistorică. Dezbaterea lui Owens se bazează situatia populaționala a Cretei la data estimată a scrierii Odiseei (800 î.e.n.), care a fost într-adevăr descrisă ca multinațională. Această dezbatere, însă, explică
numai pentru grupurile dorice, ultimele care au locuit pe insulă în cele mai vechi timpuri (secolul al XI-lea î.e.n.). Pentru ceilalți, Herodot și Diodor Siculus au păstrat narațiuni antice despre Eteocretani („Cretanii adevărați”), afirmând că erau cei mai vechi locuitori ai insulei, pe lângă un grup de oameni mai vechi și primitivi („Dactilii Idaeani”) și, de asemenea, menționând acele grupuri care au locuit insula după ele sugerează printre altele că Eteocretanii erau populația sumeriană, Kydonienii erau coloniști akkadieni
iar Dactilii Idaeani au fost locuitorii neolitici anteriori ai Cretei. El propune, de asemenea, o așezare a sumerienilor într-un număr mare începând cu 3000 î.Hr.

3.5.1. Rasa mediteraneană
Epoca bronzului. Creta fusese locuită de oameni din rasa mediteraneană de origine neolitică. Genotipul mediteranean este evident într-un perimetru mai larg al Mării Egee: din Anatolia de Vest până în sudul Italiei și din Munții Balcanilor Centrale la Creta. Au fost recunoscute două versiuni relevante care pot fi caracterizate aproximativ ca si „Continentali” și „insulari” (aceștia din urmă se găsesc și în zonele de coastă ale Mării Egee), ambele fiind distincte de „tipul armean”.

4.Discutie
Întregul context lingvistic al Cretei minoice (pre-miceniene) pare a fi mai aproape de Orientul Apropiat decât de Grecia continentala, fie în ceea ce privește existența societăților multilingve, fie în ceea ce privește influență asupra creării scripturilor. Se estimează că perioada de început a creerii CH și LA se află undeva între 3000-2600 î.Hr. Aceasta este exact perioada crucială a schimbările socio-economice din societățile sumeriene care au fost estimate anterior (a se vedea 3.1.4). Astfel, suntem in căutarea unei perioade a (proto) scrierii sumeriene în care sistemul lor de scriere devenise în mare măsură fonetic, dar nu fusese încă dezvoltat în cuneiform (după 2600-2500 î.Hr.), deși tranziția scriptului sumerian de la curviliniu la proto-cuneiform începuse încă din secolul 30 î.Hr.În acest stadiu, semnele lor fonetice originale (aproximativ 600) ar fi putut fi dezvoltate într-un alt sistem silabic compact și ușor, cum ar fi CP, dar încă fără nicio influență sau urmă de cuneiforma. Mai mult, sumerianii din acea perioadă nu ar fi fost încă afectați de sprachbund (Deutscher, 2007; Woods, 2006), și anume bilingualismul cu accadiana, deoarece CP este pur și simplu o evoluție a scriptului arhaic sumerian, datând între 3100 și 2600 î.Hr. Prin urmare, o perioadă adecvată de sosire a primilor coloniști sumerieni in Creta poate fi definită între 2800-2600 î.Hr. Pentru a rezuma evidențele socio-economice prezentate, în secolele 26 și 27 î.Hr., sumerienii aveau cu experienta:
 urbanizare și suprapopulare (a se vedea 3.1.1);
 necesitatea materiilor prime necesare civilizației lor avansate, dar absente in Mesopotamia
 (din cauza nevoii anterioare) cunoașterea unei rețele comerciale extinse care a fost exploatată, chiar
cu mult înainte de această perioadă
 schimbări socio-economice însoțite de o creștere a războiului și a sărăciei pentru clasele inferioare Prin urmare, în acele vremuri, condițiile socio-economice sumeriene erau similare cu cele ale orașelor-state grecești care a declanșat Marea Colonizare Grecească Antică din secolele 8-6 î.Hr.
Pentru a rezuma dovezile geografice, se arată că rețele extinse au existat încă din epoca neolitică,
în special în Balcani
, prin care oamenii , materiile prime strategice, alte mărfuri și informații au călătorit din Scandinavia în nord până în Etiopia în sud și din Insulele Britanice în vest, India la est, având centrul acestei rețele în Mesopotamia. Cea mai veche dovadă directă de până acum a unor astfel de
călătorii pe mare în rețelele comerciale menționate mai sus sunt datate aproximativ în 1300 î.Hr., din faimosul Naufragiu de la Ulu-burun/Turcia care conținea 17 tone de materiale din 11 culturi diferite,
inclusiv chihlimbar din țările baltice și staniu din Afganistan. Creta avea o natură și era un loc privilegiat natural si geografic în originea rutelor nord-vestice a acestei rețele care ar putea fi favorabile pentru stabilirea persoanelor care aveau cunoștința de ele.

5.Concluzie preliminară
Având în vedere originile locale (mediteraneene) ale locuitorilor minoici care au fost găsite până acum (a se vedea 3.5.1),propunerea inițială despre așezarea populațiilor sumeriene în număr mare (Kenanidis și Papakitsos, 2013a) nu este susținut antropologic, cel puțin nu în sensul în care au imigrat familii întregi de sumerieni Creta. Ceea ce s-ar fi putut întâmpla, deși este analog cu Marea Colonizare Grecească Antică, unde coloniștii erau în majoritate bărbați necăsătoriți, care obțineau mirese din populația locală după așezare (Manfredi și Braccesi,1997). Această analogie justifică dovezile antropologice despre minoici în ceea ce privește atât descendența lor maternă de origine europeană neolitică (vezi 3.5.2) și asimilarea observată de către localnici a coloniștilor din „De tip iranian / armean” (Kyriakidis și Konstas, 1974b). Coloniștii antici greci, deși mai puțini în număr, dar care poartă o cultură avansată, influențată în mai multe moduri diferite de romanii vecini (Manfredi și Braccesi, 1997) și etrusci (Laparidou, 2002), sau alte populații indigene, din egipteni (Trianti et al., 2011) la cultura îndepărtată a Gandarei în Afganistanul de Est .Prin urmare, SOT, așa cum este exprimat aici, susține că coloniștii din est care au ajuns în Creta în timpul Secolelor 28- 26 î.Hr. (Douvitsas, 2005; Kyriakidis, 1971; Kyriakidis și Konstas, 1974b) erau oameni din mediul cultural sumerian: negustori (cunoașterea traseelor), meșteri (tâmplari, metalurgisti, producători de sigilii etc.) și cărturari (de fapt contabili și funcționari de administrație) în număr moderat. Nivelul avansat al acestei civilizații comparativ cu cea a populației neolitice locale ar fi putut duce cu ușurință la adoptarea completă a culturii lor de către localnici, în timpul perioadei de opt secole (2700-1900 î.e.n.) Prepalatial. În acest sens, se acumulează mai multe dovezi directe car vor fi prezentate în scurt timp. Inscripțiile Linear B acoperă aproximativ perioada postpalatală. Prin utilizarea principiul rebus, s-a demonstrat dincolo de orice îndoială statistică că limbajul care creează semnele Linear B (format din obiecte descrise abstract) este un dialect apropiat, dar mai simplu decât cel arhaic sumerian, deoarece valoarea fonetică a fiecărui semn corespunde cuvantului monosilabic sumerian echivalent pentru obiectul descris. Potrivit lui Fischer (2004), principiul rebusului care fusese inventat de sumerieni este un dar al lor pentru omenire, a cărei influență lingvistică s-a extins în Iran, Nil, Valea Indusului și (poate) în Balcani (Kenanidis, 1992). … Fonotactica de tip CV se găsește de obicei în limbi aglutinative, o caracteristică care în LA a fost ignorată, deși observată foarte devreme de Duhoux (1998) și recent de Davis (2014), de asemenea. O limbă aglutinativa din apropiere atât de bine studiată din mileniul III î.Hr. a fost Sumeriana. …Conform teoriei CP, cărturarii sumerieni, care au inventat scriptul original, au trebuit să scrie în alte limbi decât propria limbă maternă, de unde poate deduceți că toate limbile „non-minoice” scrise cu LA / LB sunt destul de distorsionate. >>

Cretan Hieroglyphics The Ornamental and Ritual Version of the Cretan Protolinear Script (PDF) Cretan Hieroglyphics: The Ornamental and Ritual … http://www.researchgate.net › publication › 312039048_Cretan.. << Scriptul hieroglific cretan este clasificat în mod convențional ca unul dintre cele cinci scripturi din Marea Egee,împreună cu Linear-A, Linear-B și cele două silabare cipriote, și anume Cypro-Minoanul și Silabarul grec cipriot, acestea din urmă fiind considerate ca atare din cauza unor similitudini pictografice și fonetice cu cele anterioare. Hieroglifele cretane s-au întâlnit în zona Mării Egee în mileniul II î.Hr. Relația lor cu Liniar-A este încă în dispută, în timp ce limba (sau limbile) transmise este încă luată în considerare necunoscuta. Autorii susțin aici că scriptul hieroglific cretan este pur și simplu o versiune decorativa a Linear-A (sau, mai precis, a scriptului protoliniar cretan pierdut care este strămoș al tuturor scripturilor din Marea Egee) care a fost folosit în principal de producătorii de sigilii sau utilizate pentru ritualuri. Limbajul transmis trebuie să fie o formă conservatoare a sumerienei, ca și hieroglifica cretana este strict asociata cu cultura minoică originală principala și cu religia – spre deosebire de Linear-A care a fost folosit pentru alte câteva limbi – în timp ce
valorile fonetice ale semnelor au aceeași origine sumeriană ca și în cretanul protoliniar. ….. S-a documentat că inventatorii Scriptul protoliniar era o națiune care vorbea un dialect apropiat de limba arhaică sumeriană. … …În anul următor, Duhoux (1978) a observat că Linear-A este „mai degrabă aglutinativa decât
flexionata ”(la fel ca limba sumeriană), din cauza numărului mare de afixuri conține (în 59% din cuvinte) comparativ cu Linear-B (respectiv 12%). … Există, de asemenea, indicații mai vechi ale diferitelor
școli / stiluri scribale (Bennett 1966). Mai târziu, această sugestie a fost susținută și de
Finkelberg (1998). Această idee (breasla scribală), extinsă în trecut, poate explica de ce și
modul în care un număr relativ limitat de scribi și fabricanți de sigilii sumerieni ar fi putut crea un
sistem de scriere (Cretan Protolinear, deci Linear-A, Hieroglyphics Cretan și Linear-B) pentru a scrie diferitele limbi din zona Mării Egee (Kenanidis și Papakitsos 2015a). Acești profesioniști ar fi putut fi angajați cu ușurință din comunitățile sumeriene din Levant (conform Rohl 1999). …După o idee din 1978 și aproape 10 ani de cercetare, Kenanidis (1992) a publicat (în greacă modernă) un studiu care leagă valorile fonetice ale silabogramelor scripturilor liniare de cuvintele comune sau importante din punct de vedere cultural ale limbii arhaice sumeriene, prin intermediul principiul rebus. Acest studiu se referă pe larg la scriptul protoliniar cretan, considerând ca singurele mostre pastrate ale acesteia trei inscripții pe: … ….

Nota: tablitele de la Tartaria par a fi cea mai buna exemplificare, pentru Scriptura Proto-Lineara, daca nu cumva pentru o faza extrem de incipienta.

TABLITA “PICTOGRAFICA”

Poza din http://www.dacoromania-alba.ro/nr27/cultura_si_civilizatiile_la_tartaria.htm

Dintre scrierile Egeene, aceasta tablita inclina cert spre scrierea Hieroglifica Cretana care foloseste in mod pregnant pictograme. Acel fel de scriere a fost folosit pentru inscriptionarea unor obiecte votive (cultice) si a sigiliilor. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Inafara de semnul vegetal (mijloc), present in ambele scrieri supuse comparatiei. (->->-> ). – unul/primul semn, silueta umana? zeitate? (talentul nu l-a ajutat deloc pe scrib) nu este present in niciuna din scrieri (sumeriana, Egeeana).Evident, nu se regaseste printre semnele Egeene, pentru ca nici nu stim ce sa cautam. iar, – acea capra(e) a fost reprezentata in scrierile Egeene. Tablita pare a prezenta un ritual de oferire a unei ofrande (capra/capre) si poate si cereale=”paiine”. https://swaggert727344314.wordpress.com/2019/03/26/the-journey-begins/ Capra de munte=Ibex (in Creta:”cri-cri”)

Alpine Ibex Goat – Swaggert

Din http://oldeuropeanculture.blogspot.com/2020/02/goat-riding-thunder-god.html

These plaques are dated to Late Minoan I period (1480BC-1425BC) are from “Minoan Goat Hunting: Social Status and the Economics of War” by Angela Murock Hussein. Forma aceea nelamurita este dupa mine silueta celui care face sacrificiul (eventual zeitatea care-l primeste ?).  Rezultat: 1 semn necunoscut in scrierile Egeene. 1 semn gasit cu correspondent Egeean asemanator, 1 semn identic (semnul Te)

STATISTICA: Din 3 semne, 1 nu se regaseste in scrierile Egeene, 1 identic si 1 asemanator. ========= TABLITA DREPTUNGHIULARA GAURITA. ======== Poza din http://www.dacoromania-alba.ro/nr27/cultura_si_civilizatiile_la_tartaria.htm

Din Promotora Española de Lingüística – Escritura de Tartaria

Promotora Española de Lingüística - Escritura de Tartaria

Contine aproximativ 8 semne. In partea extrema- sus mijloc: trei semne gen >>>  Avem in principal de la stanga la dreapta in mare, 4 coloane. PRIMA COLOANA Are trei casete. Incepand cu cea de sus (si mergand in jos) :  -3 semne gen “DDD”sau “>>>” Imagine, http://ancientlights.org/CalendarHouse/ch2.html

Calendar House: Chapter 2 - Into The Labyrinth

Echivalent Egeean http://people.ku.edu/~jyounger/LinearA/#11%22 *34 “C”

“Sign *034 has been suggested by several scholars to represent MNA (or, if a disyllabic value can be accepted, MINA), based on its resemblance to the crescent moon”   “trei”? “3 luni” ??                                                                                         – Apoi,urmeaza in continuare, in jos, unul (sau poate 2?): SEMNE VEGETALE gen “ramurica” (unul deasupra celuilalt). Are(au) un corespondent in semnele vegetale Egeene de exemplu semnul “te”. http://people.ku.edu/~jyounger/LinearA/#11%22 *04 (TE) “TE, 1. “din../al..”? 2. probabil “evaluări sau contribuții asteptate”

Rezultat, semne vegetal-cerealier. Semnul Egeean “te” (f.f.posibil te-te) Documents in Minoan, Luwian, Semitic and Pelasgianwww.talanta.nl › wp-content › uploads › 2014/08 › 2016… PDF << te-te te-na-te “au dat lui Tanit”>> 21 Compiled Syllabaries of Old European – Migration & Diffusionmigration-diffusion.info › pdfdownload PDFnurnber of related scripts were translated, begirming with Minoan Linear A and ending with Russell. Burrows cave in … TE-TE he made, the way. TE-TO nothing. CONCLUZIE Dupa cunostinta si perceptia mea avem acolo de fapt 2 semne “Te” deci, Te-Te:”(a deschis) calea, au dat

si/sau cu semnul “Sa” http://people.ku.edu/~jyounger/LinearA/#11%22 *31

” SA, perhaps a logogram for *SA-SA-ME?” < SA (HT 114b.1) or SI (HT 30.1) = paid? > Inclin pentru semnul Egeean “Da” desi al nostru este sinistrovers (indreptat spre stanga) iar cel Egeean dextrovers.Nu am alta solutie decat sa presupun o inabilitate in a-l retine a scribului.

http://people.ku.edu/~jyounger/LinearA/#11%22 <<DA-I = “total”?: HT 12.6 (Schoep 2002, 162); cf. DA-I-PI-TA, ZA 8.5. If DA– (as in DA-DU-MA-TA) indicates in some way a completed action (like a perfect of A-DU), could DA-I be a completed transaction *516 I+[?]>>

L-am gasit in ambele variante stanga/dreapta pe securea Arkalochori si ambele variante au fost interpretate de andras Zeke ca reprezentand silabograma “Da“: A marvel of Minoan finds: the double-axe of Arkalochori http://minoablog.blogspot.com/2010/03/marvel-of-minoan-finds-axe-of.html

View at Medium.com

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CONCLUZIE: semnul este silabograma “DA” si are semnificatia “da,dau, dat

  • – Urmeaza a treia si ultima caseta a primei coloane. Semnul “TRAPEZE ligaturate/LEGATE”. Semn f.problematic & dificil, pentru ca nu exista in forma identica in scrierile Egeene.
  • Ar aduce cumva cu semnul 002 (as on CHIC #328) din Cretan Hieroglyphic http://people.ku.edu/~jyounger/PHDisc/PHDiscSigns.html

002 = VIR2(“barbat”) sau 004:”femina/femeie”? ..ar putea fi pentru ca partea de sus este mai mica decat cea de jos, cam ca la semnul Egeean .Cel mai mult seamana la o adica cu semnul sumerian “AB” =”casa,templu”. https://cdli.ucla.edu/tools/signlists/protocuneiform/archsigns.html “AB”

Ancient writing in Mesopotamia (Chapter …cambridge.org

Semnele LABRYS si cele de pe tablita de la Tartaria de origine sumeriana ?  | Tartaria tablets

Apoi seamana cu https://cdli.ucla.edu/tools/SignLists/protocuneiform/archsigns.html semnul sumerian ZAG:”stralucirea metalului, domeniu,granita,district” ”

si mai seamana cu GA’AR ,GAR:”toate produsele din orz”

Din aceeasi sursa, UNUG:”Templu”

Folosit de sumerieni si pentru a scrie “eš3”. A.A. Vaiman nu l-a putut identifica cu un semn sumerian, dar arata semnul cel mai apropiat dupa dansul, “AB”  http://www.archeo.ru/izdaniya-1/archaeological-news/arheologicheskie-vesti/AV_03.pdf

Dlr0EirU0AEfo7c

Posibile echivalente: 1. ‘labrys” https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arkalochori_Axe

Arkalochori Axe - Simple English Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://www.researchgate.net Diachronic change in sign forms between Archanes Script and Cretan-Hieroglyphic sau din Archanes Script …onlinelibrary.wiley.com

Semnele LABRYS si cele de pe tablita de la Tartaria de origine sumeriana ?  | Tartaria tablets

;Nu este labrys pentru ca semnul nostru nu are manerul! 2. B/16/165 ;B/16/167 ‘lingou”. From History Of Copper https://www.copper.co.za/education/history-of-copper/

Un lingou corodat din cupru din Zakros, Creta in forma de piele de animal, tipic pentru acea era. Imaginea urmatoare, reprezinta aceeasi forma in capatul unui stindard sumerian.Imaginea din Bilingual Indus Script inscriptions, evidence … – Bharatkalyan97 bharatkalyan97.blogspot.com › 2019/09 › bilingual-in.

Image result for e.papakitsos g.kenanidhs

Deocamdata dau sanse egale pentru “lingou” si pentru simbolul “lacas/templu sacru” …. Inspre concluzie: Semn sacru prezent, se pare cu origini in neolitic, Anatolia si Civilizatia Vinca.

T h e  G r e a t  S c h o l a r M A R I J A  G I M B U T A S  http://mmstudies.com/scholars/gimbutas/

Acest simbol pictat pe o vază din cultura Cucuteni din nord-estul României 4000 î.Hr. este, conform Marija Gimbutas, cu siguranță simbolul Zeiței regenerării sub forma unui triunghi dublu în formă de clepsidră. ”

Spre deosebire de sumerieni care aveau o stratificare sociala si religioasa complexa si care aveau semne pentru templu Ab si Unug, minoanii tineau ritualurile in natura, pe varfuri de munti si in pesteri, ca atare nu au avut semn specific pentru templu.

wikipedia Minoan religion <<…nu există dovezi că practica religioasă minoică a fost centrată în jurul templelor publice formale. Unii cercetători văd în Zeița minoică o figură solară divină feminină. >>

Vezi A-sa-sa-ra<>Asherah? Linguistic Evidence for a Phoenician Pillar Cult in Crete janes.scholasticahq.com › article PDF

Au avut doar semne asociate sacrului si zeitelor mama cea chtonica, Ma si cea astrala Asasara. Semn regasit in semnul labrys gasit in locurile si pesterile unde se tineau ritualurile. Semn asociat templulu/ labirintului, “da-pu-ri-to-yo Po-ti-ni-ya”. Folosit in locurile de venerarea zeitei-mama IDA (IDA-MATER), stapana. “cea a muntelui Dikte” (A-DI-KI-TE PO-TI-NI-JA”) http://www.melampus.name/war-of-the-gods—minoan-mycenaean.html http://www.melampus.name/uploads/8/3/2/1/8321682/c10_orig.jpg Zeita ca „Stăpână a animalelor”, surmontata de o icoană cu securea dubla într-o invocare.

Ooops ! https://medium.com/@mwenge/i-da-ma-te-in-the-arkalochori-axe-44f935f03f6e

I-DA-MA-TE in the Arkalochori Axe | by lineara.xyz | Medium

O minune a descoperirilor minoice: toporul dublu al lui Arkalochori http://minoablog.blogspot.com/2010/03/marvel-of-minoan-finds-axe-of.html Vocala „i” poate face parte din tulpină sau o particulă deictică separată (dacă I-DA-MA-TE este același cu DA-MA-TE, pe KY Za 2). În ceea ce mă privește, bănuiesc că această tulpină este inițial fără i și înseamnă „sanctuar”

Propunere de concluzie: semnul reprezinta (I)DA-MA-TE : “SANCTUAR” sau…

Anistoriton Journal, vol. 15 (2016-2017) In Situ 1 A 17th c. BC Minoan Votive Double Axe (Labrys)
The Arkalochori Axe and its siblings http://www.anistor.gr/english/enback/2016_1s_Anistoriton.pdf

<< Mai degrabă, o denumire ca „damat” în sumeriană trebuie să fie conectată la sumerianul „DAM” (soțul), prin care au început multe nume divine sumeriene. …. DAM ”poate însemna„ soț ”și apoi „ an ”ar trebui să fie AN, Zeul suprem al sumerienilor, deosebit de important în orașul Uruk și în Creta care a fost colonizată când Uruk era orașul dominant al Sumerului. …. Analog este inscripția „nodamat” pe securile mici, din aur și argint: NU (mâna) DAM (a soției) lui A (N) Zeul suprem TE atotputernicul (?). Aici cele două aspecte ale divinului sunt menționate ca DAM (aspectul feminin, „yin”) și AN (aspectul masculin, „yang”).>> eugenrau: … pai cumva tot pe acolo : semn <asociat> soatei zeului suprem

7. Sumerian Mythology: A Review Article1 – Brillbrill.com › downloadpdf › book › edcoll << …și o literatură sumeriană extrem de importantă începe să fie accesibilă într-un adevărat … dAma-u-tu-anki,Mama care a născut cerul și pământul“, ca un epitet al … ea este Damgalnun-na, “Marea soție a prințului (adică, al lui. Enki). >>

Altfel, semnul proto-cuneiform DAM este https://cdli.ucla.edu/tools/SignLists/protocuneiform/archsigns.html

This image has an empty alt attribute; its file name is DAM.jpg

Semn Egeean asemanator 004:”FEM” (femina/femeie) insa nu orice femeie ci : DAMASOTIA ZEULUI SUPREM” (?precursoarea lui Damater, Hera si Diona?) ??…foarte foarte dificil, aleg:

CONCLUZIE: Desi la noi trapezul mare este sus, si nu ca la semnele similare sum.AB:”casa,templu” si UNUG:”templu”, Noi nu avem aici DAM,DAMA ci da-ma-TE si atunci zic ca este semnul Egeean: DAMATE: “A/AL(Locul, lucrul) sotiei,logodnicei,mamei zeului suprem” (A=An)=”SANCTUAR“. Aici fiind semnul izolat probabil are semnifiactia de sanctuar in general. (Alta e situatia in casuta in care acest semn are un altul langa el)

Thracian Glossary – The Indo-European Databasetied.verbix.com › project › glossary › thra Note: The Glossary is partly reconstructed from hydronyms, place names and other traces of … ida (ide) ‘treeforest

A 2-a COLOANASEMNUL INSECTA?” Semn f.problematic & dificil. A.A. Vaiman nu i-a gasit echivalentul sumerian proto-cuneiform, vezi tabelul dansului:”signs No.4 (its meaning is unknown)”Nici eu nu l-am gasit identic in semnele sumeriene, doar apropiat?. https://cdli.ucla.edu/tools/SignLists/protocuneiform/archsigns.html “AN” (An, Anu,”zeul ceresc”)

Nu l-am gasit identic in scrierile Egeene. Semana cu semnul cretan hieroglific 068. Apoi seamana, (dar al nostru are 12 “raze”), si cu semnul cu 8 raze http://people.ku.edu/~jyounger/LinearA/#11%22 *44 (KE)

1.Simbol  “zeitate” ? sau simbol 2.‘consoana “Ke“ ?. Asemanator semnul http://www.kairatos.com.gr/linear1.htm “Do/Du” Adica seamana cu semnul de mai jos, aici interpretat 3.”Zu” Din https://linearbknossosmycenae.com/tag/cretan-hieroglyphics/

syllabary like Cretan pictograms
ZU:?un fel de recolta de (cereale)?

Aici apare ca insemnand Do sau Du: http://www.kairatos.com.gr/linear1.htm

kairatos editions Αντώνης Θωμ. Βασιλάκης. Linear A, Linear B.

Din http://minoablog.blogspot.com/2009/ Andras Zeke/Hu <<This exclusion rule can be applied to the Linear A sign *79 (‘eye’) to show why it cannot represent the value ‘ZU’ (that was assigned to it by John Younger et al.). The case-ruling example we find on the tablet ZA4,row a.5 where the term QE-SI-*79-E can be read. The same name recurs on tablet ZA15. Now, if the reading of *79 were ‘ZU’, we would rather expect an ending ZU-WE (with a not well characterised linear A WE sign) and NOT ZU-E. On the other hand, the value suggested and used by many (e.g Glen Gordon) for this linear A sign: ‘DO’, fits perfectly, as DO-E is absolutely possible. But the case of LinA *79 has to approached with care. Apparently, there are two distinct LinearB signs (*79 and *14) corresponding to single cluster (*79) Linear A. I label it as a cluster, as it contains signs of very variable design: it is easily possible that there are two signs lumped into a single cluster: at least one of these is (with resonably high probability) is the Linear A counterpart of Linear B ‘DO’ sign (LinB *14).>> CONCLUZIE: Poate risc, si cu toate ca am cel mai inalt respect pentru Dl. Andras Zeke
( Minoan language blog http://minoablog.blogspot.com/ ) si cercetarile dansului, fara nici-un argument, totusi optiunea mea (ca roman !?) este pentru intelesul:”Zu” Ipoteza: Chiar si in limba romana exista legatura intre lumina si ochi; facultatea lor=”lumina ochilor” Pornind de la radacina I.E. pentru lumina “Di” ajungem la Ziu, Zou,Zu, Zoia. Vezi localitatea cretana “Zou to lako”

The Proto-Sumerian Language Invention Process by John A. Halloran https://www.sumerian.org/prot-sum.htm << zu, sú: n., înțelepciune, cunoaștere; v. a cunoaște, a înțelege, a informa, a preda (în formă marû reduplicată); a învăța de la cineva (cu -da-); a recunoaște pe cineva (cu -da-); a fi experimentat, calificat. >>

CONCLUZIE: “Zu= “Zou, ZEitate” (echivalentul grafic al semnului sumerian AN)

A 3-a COLOANASEMNUL “CAP-de-MAGAR“. Apare pentru prima oara la sumerieni ,semnul avand numele AMAR si semnificatia “vitel”, acesta fiind la ei un simbol solar. https://cdli.ucla.edu/tools/SignLists/protocuneiform/archsigns.html AMAR

 – Wiktionaryen.wiktionary.org › wiki (būru) [AMAR]. calf. Derived termsEdit · 𒀭𒀫𒌓 (dAMAR.UTU, “Marduk”). SumerianEdit. NounEdit. 𒀫 (AMAR). calf · young, youngster, chick · son, descendant.

Gasit foarte asemanator in scrierile Egeene. imaginea din: CREWS Project – WordPress.com Cats in the Aegean Scripts

Cats in the Aegean Scripts

On the iconicity of Greek Mycenaean MA-KA
Maria Mertzani periodicos.unipampa.edu.br[PDF]117-Texto do artigo-201-1-10-20190715

117-Texto do artigo-201-1-10-20190715

V1.COMPARATIVE ENCYCLOPEDIC DICTIONARY OF MESOPOTAMIAN …books.google.ro › books Ama – Amar … Ama: Sumerian. Noun. Mother. Ima in Hebrew. Ama in ancient Syriac.

semnul sumerian aMAr a devenit semnul minoic MA;

A 17th c. BC Minoan Votive Double Axe http://www.anistor.gr › english › enback http://www.anistor.gr/english/enback/2016_1s_Anistoriton.pdf Ioannis K. Kenanidis, Ptychion (Philology/Linguist.) Primary Education Directorate of Kavala.

<< 3 și 11: semnul binecunoscut pentru „ma”, care descrie fața unui vițel (vițel = amá(r) în
Sumeriana); nu fața unei pisici așa cum obișnuiesc învățații. Într-adevăr, astăzi oamenii orașelor sunt
numai familiarizați cu pisicile și nu cu vițeii și chiar și în cele mai vechi timpuri exista o
reminiscență a feței unei pisici (dacă judecăm după sigiliul hieroglific [APENDICE]), dar
Utilizatorii vorbitori sumerieni erau conștienți că acest lucru descrie un vițel. Acesta este motivul pentru care semnul este fără mustăți (chiar și pe sigiliul hieroglific [APENDICE]). De asemenea, semnul de aici nu are
gâtul și urechile umane ale feței umane ale semnului „qa” …… Am văzut acest tip de ortografie în „a ma deŋejŋo” inscripție (discutată în ANEXA de mai jos) unde se afla semnul feței vițelului („amá (r)”) luată pentru a implica „ama” (mama) și nu „ma” ca de obicei, și asta chiar și în cazul în care semnul nu însemna „vițel” („amá (r)”), ci omofonul „ama” („mamă”).>>

CONCLUZIE: “semn MA: semnificatie “AMA,MAMA” (ZEITAMAMA)”

A 4-a si ULTIMA COLOANA Contine doua semne incepand de sus in jos:

-semnul “(Cap-de)-TAUR”. Despre acest semn No.14,, A.A. Vaiman nu a trecut nimic in tabel iar altfel doar se refera la el fara ca sa propuna ce este:” V. Coloana nu este împărțită în linii și nu conține cifre. Există două (sau trei?) Semne, nr. 14 și 10 (fig.4), cel din urmă fiind același cu cel care apare în linia II 2. Negasit exact in aceasta forma in scriptul Egeean, dar in forma extrem de asemanatoare. Aspectul si realizarea pe tablita lasa de dorit. http://people.ku.edu/~jyounger/LinearA/#11%22 Hieroglyphic *012

a bull-head, becomes Linear AB 23 MU

SA/6/113. este foarte asemanator cu semnul Egeean H/12/21 “Mu” (vezi ochiul din cap!). Seamana cu The Cretan Hieroglyphic table of signs, as suggested in the inscriptions corpus (Olivier and Godart 1996, 17). nr.012 Concluzie:MU: TAUR” Nota. Daca luam acea forma de baston care reprezinta Cretan Hieroglific “U” ar rezulta Mu-U= MUU

-semnul “TRAPEZE LIGATURATE /legate” Identic cu precedentul, dar as vrea sa revin. A.A. Vaiman nu l-a putut identifica,(dupa cum se poate verifica in tabelul dansului postat mai sus A.A.Vaiman’s table, from http://www.archeo.ru/izdaniya-1/archaeological-news/arheologicheskie-vesti/AV_03.pdf), desi arata ca cel mai apropiat semn sumerian ar fi AB:”casa,TEMPLU”. Cel mai pregnant si vechi model pentru acesta forma este constelatia Orion. Astfel devine si cea mai veche posibila asociere. https://www.freepik.com/premium-vector/orion-constellation-illustration-scheme-constellation-stars-with-its-name_8027372.htm

Premium Vector | Orion constellation illustration. scheme of constellation  stars with its name.

Orion Constellation Myths of Sumer, Babylon and Egypt http://www.astronomytrek.com/orion-constellation-myths-of-sumer-babylon-and-egypt/ << Pentru această civilizație urbană, constelația și-a reprezentat eroul Gilgamesh, ale cărui exploatări au fost imortalizate în prima piesă de literatură eroică supraviețuitoare numită Epopeea lui Gilgamesh. …. Sumerienii au onorat ulterior lupta prezentându-l pe Ghilgameș în cerurile cerești ca fiind constelația URU AN-NA („lumina cerului”) care luptă cu un taur, identificat drept constelația modernă din apropiere a Taurului.  >> … de aici, de la casa, in fapt “salasul”, provine si simbolul templului zeitatii celeste supreme, oricare va fi ea la diferite civilizatii.

Bull of Heaven Taurul Ceresc https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bull_of_Heaven < Unii cercetători consideră Taurul Cerului aceeași figură cu Gugalanna, soțul lui Ereshkigal menționat de Inanna în Coborarea Inanei în lumea subpamanteana >

ANUjpreporter.net › … < Zeul sumerian Enki seamănă mai mult cu șarpele Genezei și … Gud Anu Gud (Taurul) din Anu (Cer / Univers).>>

Bull of Heaven in Mesopotamian Sources – Culture and Cosmoswww.cultureandcosmos.org › pdfs › 5-2-Soltysiak_Bull… PDF < A doua constelație care poartă numele unui taur este sumerianul gud.an.nataur al cerului”, echivalat cu elu akkadian. În textele lexicale este separat ..>

Bull of Heaven in Mesopotamian Sources – Culture and Cosmoswww.cultureandcosmos.org › pdfs › 5-2-Soltysiak_Bull… PDF < A doua constelație care poartă numele unui taur este sumeria gud.an.na ‘taur … și după o lacună Inanna cere Taurul Cerului (gud.an.na) > eugenrau: Gud-anu <?> GUDEANU

CONCLUZIE II : LOCUINTA, SALASUL ZEITATII CELESTE SUPREME

ACUM SUNTEM “OBLIGATI” SA INTERPRETAM INTREAGA COLOANA

Pentru simplul motiv ca aici simbolurile nu sant separate de vre-o linie sau caseta si au un inteles luate impreuna. Dar am dat cu aceasta ocazie de o mare dificultate, intrucat nefiinda certa semnificatia ultima a acestor simboluri avem cateva combinatii prezumtive: simbolul de sus: Taur ceresc/Soarele sau Asterios/Minotaurul/Luna simbolul de jos: Salasul zeitei solare, Zeita solara sau simbolul soatei zeului ceresc suprem

Taurul ceresc+consoarta sa sau Taur/Minotaur/Luna + soarele(zeita solara) sau TAURUL ceresc/zeitatea suprema/SOARELE + casa lui,TEMPLUL lui,Orion >> CONCLUZIE: TEMPLUL TAURULUI CERESC,(SOARELE)

Statistica: Din 8 semne, 2 nu se regasesc nicum printre semnele Egeene, 2 in forma identica si 4 in forma apropiata. =========== TABLITA ROTUNDA GAURITA =========== Poza din http://www.dacoromania-alba.ro/nr27/cultura_si_civilizatiile_la_tartaria.htm

Cerc impartit in 4 sferuri; vom lua sferturile in sens orar, primul situate stanga-sus: SFERTUL 1 contine doua semne: Semnul “H cu 3 bare ~orizontale”. Exista cumva asemanator semnul sumerian proto-cuneiform Ku/Ga2, proto-sinaitic Het, arhaic grec Heta, dar si in Indus Script https://www.boloji.com/articles/11693/origin-and-etymology-of-the-valuations 12. < Sign 

: This sign is like a cradle which locally is called ‘dola’ or ‘dolna’. The first letter of this word is ‘da’. The method of acrology is also applicable here.>

Exista identic in inventarul de semne Egeene, semnul PA3 (PA,PAI) http://people.ku.edu/~jyounger/LinearA/#11%22

Mycenaean | Minoan Linear A, Linear B, Knossos & Mycenae | Page 6linearbknossosmycenae.wordpress.com › tag › page › f… Next comes the supersyllabogram PA3 (PAI), 1. “which probably refers to pa3ni/pa3nina/pa3niwi” sau 2.”probably expected assessments or contributions” “PA3 appears on HT 9b, listing payments….

B/17/- “bronz” http://people.ku.edu/~jyounger/LinearA/#11%22 AES bronze/copper :*140

si A/9/56, semnul “Pa3” Nu este semnul pentru bronz/cupru pentru ca acela are bara verticala din dreapta scurta ! Semnul P?/D? Nu exista ca atare P mai deloc iar “D” numai orizontal pentru masuri volumetrice, B/15/110 “unitate masura volumetrica”.”D” poate reprezenta:                                                                          1. Unitate volumetrica cereale (asemanator semnului Sumerian GAR=ninda/paine) https://linearbknossosmycenae.com/2016/09/29/measurement-of-17-conjectural-units-total-of-dry-and-liquid-volume-weight-in-minoan-linear-a/

Measurement of 17 conjectural units total of dry and liquid volume & weight  in Minoan Linear A | Minoan Linear A, Linear B, Knossos & Mycenae

La noi semnul nu este “blid” ci este rotit anteorar 90gr. ;Sau semnul poate fi   2. Symbol “luna” (ca timp)? https://linearbknossosmycenae.com/category/lessons-linear-b/

Latest opinion about Tartaria tablets /26Dec19 | Tartaria tablets

Altfel la minoici era intoarsa: http://ancientlights.org/CalendarHouse/ch2.html

Calendar House: Chapter 2 - Into The Labyrinth

Interpretari: 1. PAI-MENO/PAIMEN >Poimen “pastor” https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Indo-European/peh₂- <<Semantic shift from “protector” towards “shepherd, herder” can be seen in many branches, signifying the importance of herding. Unusual is the o-grade root in Greek ποιμήν (poimḗn, “shepherd, herdsman”),>> 2. PAMENOS Tradition and Transformation. Egypt under Roman Rule: … Recent research seriously doubts the sibling marriages in Roman Egypt, suggesting … of Apollonia alias Senmonthis, daughter of Ptolemaios alias Pamenos.

FromANISTORITON Journal of History, Archaeology, ArtHistory: Viewpoints http://www.a nistor.gr/english/enback/v053.htm                                                                                              One of the faces reads: Pame-ni po-lo 100 The foals (polo(i)) for this year (pameni has the dative ending, but cf. Greek pammenos) Please also note that the … 3.signs PA- Moon > PAMENI :”ALL- MONTHs=(this) YEAR !! Rom.”(acest) an” Wikipedia, Minoan Moulds of Palaikastro

Minoan Moulds of Palaikastro - Wikipedia

Deci ar uie adaugate +++++ 5 zile.Putea fi un calendar lunisolar, fiecare sfert continand 3 luni a 30 de zile iar la fiecare an ar trbui adaugate +++++ 5 zile. SFERTUL 2 contine :

-semnul +++++ . Acesta poate reprezenta echivalentele Egeene: 1. Numarul 15 Linear B decipherment: credit where credit is due | dr dud’s dicta

Linear B decipherment: credit where credit is due | dr dud's dicta

2. “TE, 1. “din../al..” 3.Ligature a doua semne A/9/92 “Te” A/9/92 sau A/9/61 “Ne”.Deci posibil “te-te”=”a facut,calea”? 3. Numarul “50”

doua semne “D” Nu exista in proto-scrierea sumeriana, cea mai veche aparitie este in vechea elamita 2250 and 2220 IEN (vezi “u”,”ku”) https://omniglot.com/writing/elamite.htm A selection of Old Elamite symbols which have been deciphered:

Old Elamite

LINEAR ELAMITE WRITING François Desset http://www.researchgate.net List of accepted values for LE signs identifications in the right column are uncertain Urmatorul nu-i bun, contine doua semne in oglinda

Indus script semnul “Dha” https://www.boloji.com/articles/10657/a-new-light-on-the-decipherment-of

A New Light on the decipherment of Indus-Saraswati Script by Rajat K Pal

Origin and Etymology of the Valuations of Indus-Saraswati Signs by Rajat K Pal https://www.boloji.com/articles/11693/origin-and-etymology-of-the-valuations

Origin and Etymology of the Valuations of Indus-Saraswati Signs by Rajat K  Pal

Sign 

 / 

 : The valuation of this sign is ‘da’/’dha’. The origin of this sign is the word ‘dhanuka’ which means bow with or without arrow. Through acrology the first letter ‘dha’ became the valuation of that sign.

Nu exista identic in scrierile Egeene, doar in oglinda http://people.ku.edu/~jyounger/LinearA/#11%22 L (A709) “value is unknown”

1. Unitate volumetrica/portie cerele-paiine https://linearbknossosmycenae.com/2015/02/19/mycenaean-linear-b-units-of-measurement-liquid-dry-weight-click-to-enlarge/

Mycenaean Linear B Units of Measurement (Liquid, Dry & Weight): Click to  ENLARGE | Minoan Linear A, Linear B, Knossos & Mycenae

Aici avem o foarte mare problema; semnul pentru volum ar trebui rotit 90gr in sens anteorar. La sumerieni semnul asemanator GAR (un D cu o linie paralela interioara) citeste ninda a fost initial in pozitia blidului-(orizontal), apoi l-au rotit. Introduction Into the First Society – ppt download

Introduction Into the First Society - ppt download

Atentie: Primul semn “D” pare ca contine in interior semnul http://people.ku.edu/~jyounger/LinearA/#11%22 *37 (TI)

TE/TI, <<“from/of” (Valério 2007), associated with agricultural products and people, usually in large quantities. So, assessments…>> rom. “de la, al“,”evaluari” – doua semne “O” sau semnele “oc” 1. Semnul “o” gasit identic in The Cretan Hieroglyphic table of signs, as suggested in the inscriptions corpus (Olivier and Godart 1996, 17) semnul nr.073. Apoi in Linear A http://people.ku.edu/~jyounger/LinearA/#11%22 *309

2. In http://www.kairatos.com.gr/linear1.htm semnul “Qe”? Doua semne Egeene a cate 100, deci “200” Din Cretan Hieroglyphs Numerals: A Brief Information |

Cretan Hieroglyphs Numerals: A Brief Information | Open Access Journals

3. semnele “oc”=Doua faze din cele patru ale lunii ? Semnul “C” are echivalent H/13/65 MINA sau B/15/*34 “month’s ration?” DESI AS PUTEA INTERPRETA ASEMANATOR SUMERIENILOR, care obtineau aceste semne prin apasare, UNDE D D O O =1, 1, 10, 10, portii cereale, ADICA SA MA FOLOSESC DE FAPTUL CA LA MINOICI “D” REPREZENTA UNITATE DE MASURA VOLUM (CA BLIDUL SUMERIENILOR) SI CA AS PUTEA INTERPRETA SEMNELE “O O” CA “100 100” , NU VOI PROCEDA ASA, PENTRU CA FAPTUL CA TABLITA DREPTUNGHIULARA ACOPERA EXACT JUMATATEA DE SUS A CELEI ROTUNDE ATUNCI CAND TABLITELE SANT PURTATE IMPREUNA AGATATE LA GAT, I-MI INDICA UN CONTINUT EZOTERIC/SACRU AL ACESTOR SECVENTE “HD D D O O/c” si interpretarea va fi: HD=PA-MENI=”toate lunile” =”ANUL” iar D D O C sant FAZELE LUNII.

SFERTUL 3 contine semnele:

eugenrau – Tartaria tablets

(imaginea din Moonlight in Romania … ) As fi putut citi fiecare semn in parte considerand ca fiecare este compus din semne elementare unite prin ligatura/legatura.Insa veti vedea mai departe (mai evidenta pentru Dv. si usor de inteles) prin exemplificarea celui de-al 2-lea semn. ca semnele sant ideograme complexe. – SEMNUL DIN STANGA. O ideograma complexa, un semnul gen altar , (cu flacara), dar mai degraba “altar portabil” . Nu l-am gasit identic in inventarul Egeean.Are un echivalent Egeean care nu este identic, seamana semnul “De “ intors pe dos ! http://people.ku.edu/~jyounger/PHDisc/PHDiscSigns.html

Este demn de remarcat, ca acest semn a fost propus de Maria gimbutas sau Cosmas Theodorides e, Tanit. Nu l-am gasit exact asa ca reprezentand “E” in civilizatia Vinca-Turdas ! http://studialphabetica.blogspot.com/2014/11/?m=0

CONCLUZIE: Semn ritualic religios “Altăraş

SEMNUL DIN DREAPTA lui: Tot o ideograma complexa, nu se regaseste in forma identica printre semnele Egeene. Seamana cu semnul orasului Larsa, in fapt altarul templului zeitatii sumeriene Samas (soarele) din Larsa. http://enenuru.net/html/misc/cityseals.htm

What Are the Archaic Sumerian City Seals?

Semnul seamana deasemenea cu icon-l/icoana zeitei Punice Tanit. http://studialphabetica.blogspot.com/2014/11/?m= https://ro.pinterest.com/pin/726064771152145821/

The Sign of Tanit on a Punic votive stele - Brought to you by the  Historyteller podcast. Click on the image to subscribe on … | Phoenician,  Stele, Ancient goddesses

Ritual and Worship at Knossos (Minoan Bronze Age)kzclip.com › video › ritual-and-worship-at-knossos-mi… disk the words A-TA-I-WE-WA-JA or JA-SA-SA-RA-ME mean Asasara/Ishassara which is the goddess Astarte. … “Minoan Kingship and the Solar Goddess

Apropo, vorbind despre ritualul sacrificiului, rețineți că tableta are formă de pituta, turtita, turta dulce … Imprints of the Neolithic mind — clay stamps from the Republic of Macedonia https://www.researchgate.net/publication/239927120_Imprints_of_the_Neolithic_mind_-_clay_stamps_from_the_Republic_of_Macedonia

Neolithic clay model loaves from Govrlevo (Photos by G. Naumov). | Download  Scientific Diagram

Neolithic clay model loaves from Govrlevo (Photos by G. Naumov) Din Acei minoici „sângeroși” … de Andras Zeke / Hu http://minoablog.blogspot.com/2011/ << … Și astfel am ajuns la subiect pentru a discuta o a doua teorie despre semnificația A-SA-SA-RA-ME. Va fi mai în concordanță cu obiceiurile minoice contemporane, dar probabil mai puțin plăcut pentru un cititor slab. Această posibilă explicație ar fi compararea A-SA-SA-RA-ME cu cuvântul hieroglific luwian asḫarmis (plural: a-sa-ḫa + ra-mi-sa) = „ofrandă”, „sacrificiu” (sau similar). Hittitologii tind să conecteze acest cuvânt cu Luwian as Luar- = „sânge”, astfel * asḫar-m-is- înseamnă inițial „sacrificiu sângeros”. Oricare ar fi fost etimologia sa originală, a fost folosită într-un sens mai generic în inscripțiile Karkamiš, deoarece cel puțin una dintre mențiunile sale (vezi figura) implică și sacrificarea pâinii, nu doar a animalelor. Având în vedere numărul de fraze din minoică cu posibile corelații anatoliene, nu ar trebui să fim surprinși să vedem încă una adăugată pe listă. În timp ce geminația silabelor SA este cu siguranță problematică în minoică (trebuie să presupunem o dezvoltare * -asḫa- → * -asaḫa- → * -asasa- la împrumut – deoarece s-ar putea ca minoica să nu fi avut consoana ḫ) și terminarea sa stem este diferit, un sens generic „sacrificiu” s-ar potrivi în mod excepțional cu * A-SA-SA-RA-M-. Dacă această identificare este adevărată, A-SA-SA-RA-ME ar putea însemna „de sacrificiu” și invers A-SA-SA-RA-MA-NA „sacrificiu”. Acest lucru ar putea explica cu ușurință utilizarea universală a acestor termeni în contexte religioase. >>

CONCLUZIE: zeitatea astrala feminine Egeeana “A-Sa-Sa-Ra”                                               

SFERTUL  4, Contine urmatoarele semne luate in sens orar incepand cu cel din stanga-sus: -semnul “arc-cu-sageata”. Regasit identic in Scrierea Cretana Hieroglifica semnul 048. http://people.ku.edu/~jyounger/PHDisc/PHDiscSigns.html

Altfel, in semnele sumeriene proto-cuneiforme (semnul Ba) si in alfabetele anatoliene (Carian:”i”). https://sites.google.com/site/collesseum/cretanscripts#_ftn1 << TO (P48, AB5, CC13 78, C TO) is a bow (toxon) with an arrow, but the curve was straightened, and the string was reduced to a small stroke …….

TO    tóxon: bow (with arrow) …fira’r suna ca dracu’ a medicament..
    (PD11)     PG48        LA39    L(A)B5    LC to    CC8b,9?

Sugestia mea este că semnele liniare A și B derivă în cele din urmă dintr-o imagine a arcului și a săgeții, toxon grecesc. Gliful discului Phaistos (PD 11, 1x) este un arc. și săgeată (deși ar putea fi o pasăre cu gâtul lung, deci LA / B KU?!). Dacă niciuna dintre aceste pictograme nu este legată de toxon (arc), atunci argumentul meu pentru LA / B TO este dificil de argumentat. , forma LB ar putea fi o reducere a desenului original al arcului și al săgeții: două linii orizontale paralele reprezintă arcul, în timp ce săgeata este linia verticală de sub ele și le împarte (linia de sus este, așadar, șirul de arc) >>

The Undeciphered Signs of Linear B: Interpretation and …books.google.ro › books › isbn=1108494722Two possible Linear A antecedents have been suggested for twe: AB87 and A305 (Figure 2.4). … 234 No Cretan Hieroglyphic correspondences are suggested by CHIC: 19 or … Cretan Hieroglyphic 048 has a broadly similar formbut as this sign’s central ‘arrow‘ does not appear in either of the potentially related Linear A signs or in Linear B twe a connection is not probably likely.

https://www.matec-conferences.org/articles/matecconf/pdf/2017/39/matecconf_cscc2017_05018.pdf Cretan Hieroglyph symbols and their IPA phonetic values. sign 048=”i”

file:///C:/Users/User/Downloads/Decorte_R_P_J_E_2018_The_Origins_of_Bron%20(1).pdf <<The CHIC editors themselves consider #048 as most likely Linear A: “nous inclinons à penser qu’il s’agit de linéaire A”, citing Brice 1992>>

Phaistos Disk Deciphered? Not Likely, Say Scholars – Biblical …www.biblicalarchaeology.org › archaeology-today › ph… In a TEDx talk in Heraklion on the Greek island of Crete, Gareth Owens … script (Egyptian Hieroglyphs), as well as a translation of that text into Greek. … equate to the MLA sign AB41(si) and the CHS sign CHIC#048 and #049.

Dupa Andras Zeke http://minoablog.blogspot.com/2010/02/how-to-read-minoan-hieroglyphics.html The Cretan Hieroglyphic Signs and their Suspected
Linear A Equivalents #048, 049 ‘archery’ signs (141) = AB41 / si

CONCLUZIE: ..?.. “Si

– Semnul “>>”    L-am gasit in forma exacta in inventarul de semne Egeene sub forma “>” doar pe discul de la Faistos (vezi Nr.18) : https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/53d6/370fac2ec6843740b9c0546632eeb5b5fbb4.pdf

An Application of Software Engineering for Investigating the Language of  Phaistos Disk 1. Introduction

http://people.ku.edu/~jyounger/PHDisc/PHDiscSigns.html Semnul 18

Dupa savantul Andis Kaulins-citire, >= Nw (Nu)

-Semnul “Z- schematic” .Exista in forma exacta in inventarul Egeean, semnul A/9/2, semnul “Pa” http://people.ku.edu/~jyounger/LinearA/#11%22 *03

PA should be an abbreviation for a term modifying people…”

STATISTICA. Din 12 semne, 3 nu se regasesc in forma identica in semnele Egeene, 4 in forma identica,si cca 5 in forma asemanatoare.

TOTALUL CELOR 3 tablite Nu exista, 6 Identice 7, asemanatoare 10, DECI STATISTICA INDICA HOTARAT pentru PREZENTA PE TABLITE A UNUI SCRIPT EGEEAN.

μαντευτοῦ >?> mântuitu

December 5, 2020

Dex mântuire, mantuire, definiţie mântuire, dex.ro Mobile
Din maghmenteni. sursa: DEX ’09 (2009) ..

Asa cum bine am facut ca mi-am urmat intuitia (de fapt mai mult ca urmare a cunostintelor acumulate), am presupus ca la noi cuvintele mantuit/mantuire nu vin din direct din latina ci posibil din greaca. Cuvintele ar putea avea la baza secole anterioare de practici numite astazi pagane, desi eu nu consider drept si nimerit a fi folosit acest termen. In fond erau credintele pe care se bazau atunci. Pentru ca nu au fost aduse de straini, ci practicate aici pe la noi, prin locurile noastre. Apoi este firesc sa ne gandim ca, cu siguranta au existat forme de practicare a credintelor si religiei anterioare cultului crestin.

La noi mantuit/mantuire pare ca nu vine “bas direct” din latina asa cum pentru mine sau altii era (partial?) de asteptat. Cu atat mai mult cu cat este vorba de perioada precedenta crestinismului si pre-crestinismului, noi nu am folosit nici-un termen gen: haruspicem=ghicitor, predictor=prezicator, oracol=oraculi, videns=vazator, praevideat=clarvazator, exponentia=vraja, oraculo=oracol. Apoi chiar in greaca s-a facut mai tarziu deosebirea si despartirea intre mantis si profetes, unde prophetes erau considerati profetii adevarati si mantis falsii profeti. Din https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?t=esv&strongs=g3132 <<… μαντεύομαι; (μάντις (a seer; allied to μανία, μαίνομαι; cf. Curtius, § 429)); from Homer down; to act as seer; deliver an oracle, prophesy, divineActs 16:16 μαντευομένη, of a false prophetess (A. V. by soothsaying). The Sept. for קָסַם, to practise divination; said of false prophets>>

Posibil ca noi am luat termenii inainte de asta dinainte, cand exista numai termenul generic mantis.

Din Wikipedia, IN LIMBA GREACA μαντευτής (manteutes) Ετυμολογία: μαντευτής < αρχαία ελληνικήμαντευτός (αυτός που μαντεύθηκε, που τον μάντευψε το μαντείο) αλλά στον Ηλιόδωρο ανευρίσκεται και η λέξη μαντευτής Ουσιαστικό μαντευτής αρσενικό

Η σελίδα αυτή χρειάζεται επέκταση. Βοηθήστε το Βικιλεξικό επεκτείνοντάς την! Ετυμολογία μαντευτής < μάντις Ρήμα: μαντευτής

  • ὑπό τοῦ μαντευτοῦ τῆς ψυχῆς γιγνόμενος (Ηλιόδωρος, 9, στ.3) (εννοώντας τον μάντι, αν και ο Δ.Κοραής το 1804 στα μεταφραστικά του σχόλια το θεωρεί λάθος του συγγραφέα και κρίνει ότι εννοούσε μαντευτικός)
  • IN LB. ROMANA:
  • μαντευτής (manteutes)=ghicitoare
  • Etimologie: manteftis/manteutes/ μαντευτήςgreaca veche presupuneri (care μαντεύθηκε/μάντευψε/mantefpse=(care) ghiceste  μαντείο oracolul ) , dar găsit în Heliodore și cuvântul manteftis/μαντευτής
  • Substantiv= bărbat ghicitor
  • unul care practică μαντείαdivinație , care anticipează/μαντεύει,  μάντης/văzătorul (formată în moderne în dresor , cizmar , mantateftis dar de preferat , de obicei , văzător )
  • Traduceri ghicitoare
  • Greaca veche (grc) Etimologie: μαντεύθηκε manteutis/manteftis < augur
  • Verb μαντευτής= ghicitoare
  • probabil μαντευτοῦ= ghicitorul , unul care ghicește, dar posibil manteftikos/μαντευτικός/manteutikos sau ghicitul , ceea ce cineva ghicește
  • de manteftou/μαντευτοῦ/manteutou gignomenos suflet (Eliodor, 9 F.3) (adică μάντι/profetul, deși D.Korais în 1804 , în traducerea comentariilor pe care le consideră greșit autorul consideră ca menite  μαντευτικόςmanteftikos/manteutikos=divinatoriu, oracular,ghicitor 
  • ======== ASA INCAT =========
  • Verbul manteuomai μαντεύομαι https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?t=esv&strongs=g3132 verb From a derivative of μαίνομαι (G3105) (meaning a prophet, as supposed to rave through inspiration) from Homer down; to act as seer; deliver an oracle, prophesy, divine:
  • in romana: a clarvedea, a oracula, profeti, ghicitor.
  • μαντευτοῦ= ghicitorul/profetul >> mantuitu
  • μαντευτής (manteutes) manteutis= a prezice “(a)ghicitori”?>> mantuiti, mantuite
  • De la acest manteutu, nu s-a ajuns totusi direct la mantuitu, ci:
  • μαντειο/Manteuo/manteio=”a ghici, profeti, prezice”>> mentui > mentui,mentuitu
  • Mentui este vechi cuvant serbo-croat (valah!)= “fereste” Ex: Bog mentui=Deus avertat=Doamne fereste. L-am mai gasit pe mentui in conjugarea verbului mentevoir:”a vedea”, in vechea limba franceza ei zice ca vine din lat.”mente habere”=” are in minte” si in franceza veche mentevoir:”a mentiona” si mentui:”mentionat”
  • Inca de la nastere,de la mantis>manteuo:profetie, odata cu existenta acestuia a primit sensul de falsa profetie Adica de “a parea ca, a insela” apoi prin mentui de “a intoarce,deturna,feri”. Toate provin de la radacina I.Europeana MEN:”minte”. In aceeasi parte cu MANTIS, a cuvintelor derivate din MEN cu sensul de “a parea ca, insela”, avem in toate limbile romanice si mentir:”a minti”. Lat. mens,mentis:”mind/minte”, iar a minti:”ad mendacium”mendacium:”minciuna”, albaneza minte:”mendje”. Dar cele cu mintitul provin din la lat. mentior:”a inventa, a avea al doilea gand>a minti”.Tot in categoria “abatere” avem lat. averto:”(eu ma) intorc, feresc, abat/distrag” ; provine din din ‘ab vertat’
  • Astfel avem mentui:”fereste” >> mentui, mântui; mentuit,mântuit, mântuire:”ferit >?>”aparat, salvat”?