Archive for the ‘Linguistics’ Category

Romanian verb “a mantui” etymology

November 14, 2020

All endeavour began after I wached on youtube the speach “Some reflections on stupidity/dumbness” of Romanian renown scholar Andrei Plesu.

There he made an asertion that the name of one of the most revered monument of romanians, brand-new biggest Orthodox cathedral, ” Catedrala mantuirii neamului” is composed of three words, none of romanian origin, pointing that neam and mantuire is appearing in DEX (Romanian Explanation/Etymological Dictionary) the words neam and mantuire to have an hungarian origin.

From “Din magh. nem.” and “Din magh. menteni.

I was quite shocked and realised that it is an unforgivable and inexcusable mistake or lack of minimal linguistis knowledge and due of lasyness of our schollars.

Cause Danubian area is the very place of Old Europe (Vinca-Turdas, Cucuteni cultures).  See

Panonian plain and Carpathian Mountains area were inhabited before any of many Asian hordes raided Europe relentless one after another. Inhabited by thraco-dacian related people, and before by ancient populations, pre-Indo-European and after them, true Indo-Europeans. And one of the supposed pool and origin of Indo-European family of languages.

arian home

c. 5000 bc. Homeland:  The Danube River valley (Wallachia and Hungary).

Panonian basin before 200-500 AD. from

and later (~ 100-200 A.D.)

Celts on Panonia


******************************************** Romanian-English        Translation of “mantuire” in English, From Noun: “salvation, redemption, saving, revivalism, peace-offerings, soul rapture-ready”

To start quite abruptly, I did not found something better than:

From Mihai-Silviu Chirilă: Mântuirea din › ma… „mântuire” provine de la manu („de mână”) și tenere („a ține”). … Interesanta originea neclara sau multipla a cuvantului “mantuire

The Romanian dictionaries consider ‘mântuire’ a loan word from the Hungarian menteni ‘to (get) free, to (self) save, to liberate from a deadlock’. Consulting the Hungarian Etymological Dictionary (1970) we find the verb ment ‘to free, guard, deliver, save, exit, run,’ but not a form menteni as such. This dictionary lists as the first attestation of ment dating around 1195 in the funerary song Halotti beszéd és könyörgés.

I’ve found:- ment=”went” and megment=”save mentén:”along” mentés=”rescue, salvage

From save – English to Hungarian Meaning of save – hungarian.english … › q=save HungarianEnglish menteni:”save” ; Also, hung. mentés :” rescue ,salvage, saving/save ,recovery ,lifesaving”  From ; A mentés=”save”

Other native hungarian not agree with this above opinion: Talk:Hungarian language

<< Important information is also, the Italian substratum and effect on the Romanian language, the Friauli dialect (linguistic continuity between Venetia – Istria – Dalmatia in the Roman times), this can be easily checked (Schuchardt: Der Vocalismus des Vulgarlateins. Leipzig 1868. II. 46). Some Hungarian loanwords from the Romanian language (they are reflecting the case mentioned above): Nému, aldui, aldasiu, fagadasiu, surzuita, birau, biru, kezesiu, oca, uca, orasiu, orasianu, feredeu, hiklenia, valciegu, hasna, keskeneu, mestesiugu, uricasiu, bulciu, gandu, haleu, hotar, holda, ileu, valmasiu, gazdaku, vama, chipu, chipzui, ravasiu, ravasiu de drumu, sáma, dare de sáma, catana, fagadau, lacui, lacasiu, mintui, mintuitor, vileag, siru, urlui, uiag, fel, felu, giulusiu, alénu, bintatuire, untuire, ingaduire, etc.

Quite interesting as long as hungarian tribes come to Europe one with turkic/altaic language (Magyars) and another with ugric (Hungars). From c. 830 to c. 895 Around 830, a rebellion broke out in the Khazar khaganate. As a result, three Kabar tribes of the Khazars joined the Hungarians and moved to what the Hungarians call the Etelköz, the territory between the Carpathians and the Dnieper River. The Hungarians faced their first attack by the Pechenegs around 854,[37] though other sources state that an attack by Pechenegs was the reason for their departure to Etelköz Entering the Carpathian Basin (c. 895) ! ! Cause they entered an already established pool of previ ous thousend years allready settled population . Wich for sure thought all populations of Earth what is happening with them afer death. Me: Until 955 were under Byzantinen empire influenced, and had an incipient form of christianism. They turn to christianism after 955.

From the arrival of the Hungarians, three early medieval powers, the First Bulgarian EmpireEast Francia and Moravia, had fought each other for control of the Carpathian Basin. Their language: Origin of word roots in modern Hungarian Uncertain 30% Uralic 21% Slavic 20% German 11% Turkic 9.5% Latin and Greek 6% Romance 2.5% Other known 1%

Weird, this mentes is identical with : - : – mentes:” to mention” and: – latin mentes:”mind” ……(wich in turn has the I.E. root MEN :”mind”( pre I.E. minoan MIN:”constant”), from wich come a constalation of words beginning from gr.menos:”mind,desireardorwishpurpose,anger,couragespiritvigor,powerstrengthforce,violence

” and meno:”stay, wait” ==============

<<Previous attempts to clarify the etymology of this word include suggestions offered by the Romanian theologians who offered a Latin solution for ‘mântuire’ from manes ‘the souls of dead’ and tueor, tueri ‘keep’, thus ´the keeping of the souls after death´. On the same direction is the solution through Latin manus ‘hand’ and teneō ‘to hold’.

Other theologians, among them Dumitru Staniloaie, consider ‘mântuire’ as related to the Latin mentes ´mind´ and tueor, tueri, expressing ´a change of mind, a renewal of consciousness´,  cognate with the Greek meta-noew  ’a change of mind, repent’,….>>

manutenere – › wiki › manutenere

  1. From Late Latin manūteneō (“I support”), from Latin manū (“with the hand”) + (“I hold”). PronunciationEdit. Rhymes: -ere. VerbEdit. manutenere. (transitive) 

..or the refined:

Hungarian, or rather substratum elements in Romanian? › search › article-detail… Rom. gând < Hu. gond; labă ~ láb, talpă < talp etc., while a mântui is explainable as a peculiar development of post-classical Lat. manu tueor ‘to heal by hand.

From › pdfPDF Bibliografia românească de lingvistică – Diacronia PALIGA, SORIN, <<*Manu tuitus: mantuit = salvat de mâna Lui, rom. “saved (by His) hand” In honorem Onufrie Vinţeler,. 2011, 241–250 [mântui, mântuire, Mântuitor].Diacronia | Impavidi progrediamur!Diacronia is an online, open-access, peer-reviewed journal of historical >>

=========================================== But I begun from: Root *men- “to thinkmind.spiritual activity” >>> lat.*mén-ti-s ~ *mn̥-téy-s (“thought”); proto I-Iran *mántram m (religion)meditationchanting, and Root *men- “to stayremain” Derived terms:*mén-e-ti (root thematic present) Hellenic: *ménō Ancient Greek: μένω (ménō, “to stay, remain”)

Otherwise we have also: gr. manteuomai Definition: to divine
Usage: I divine, practice soothsaying, fortune telling, suggesting the fraud involved in the practice. ============================================

But MANTUIRE is one of (or both):

A) Manutenere, or/and manu+tueor, as keep by hand, MAINTAIN

3 – Etymological Dictionary of › directory· Translate this pageFrom ProtoIndoEuropean *menth2- ‘id.’ Indo-European … mantener (Verb) “to maintain” Borrowed from Medieval Latin manutenere ‘id.,’ literally “to hold by 

B)MAN(es)Tuor, ManTuit(us)

From <<In ancient Roman religion, the Manes /ˈmeɪniːz/ or Di Manes are chthonic deities sometimes thought to represent souls of deceased loved ones. …….

The theologian St. Augustine, writing about the subject a few centuries after most of the Latin pagan references to such spirits, differentiated Manes from other types of Roman spirits:

Apuleius “says, indeed, that the souls of men are demons, and that men become Lares if they are good, Lemures or Larvae if they are bad, and Manes if it is uncertain whether they deserve well or ill… He also states that the blessed are called in Greek εὐδαίμονες [eudaimones], because they are good souls, that is to say, good demons, confirming his opinion that the souls of men are demons.>>

From tueor Alternative forms Etymology

From Proto-Italic *toweōr, from Proto-Indo-European *tewH- (to look favorably, protect, observe”)

tueor (present infinitive tuērīperfect active tuitus sum); second conjugationdeponent

From tuitus (feminine tuitaneuter tuitum); first/second-declension participle

  1. defended Note: why + the other meanings of tueor as “compensate= redeeem”??

So “Keep up,maintain,preserve, guarddefendprotectsupportCOMPENSATE, The spirit,soul of the dead”

(otherwise “SAVE=(in Christian use) preserve (a person’s soul) from damnation”

Note: redemtion, redeeem<close meaning?>to compensate “redeem:” compensate for the faults or bad aspects of..” in religion:” save (someone) from sin, error, or evil.” “Compensate=REDEEM the SOUL

C) Man(eo) + tuit(us)

From << maneo Etymology From Proto-Indo-European *men- (“to stay, stand still”) (with mānsum influenced by mānsī), related to Persian ماندن‎ (mândan, “to remain”), Ancient Greek μένω (ménō, “I remain” Verb:maneō (present infinitive manēreperfect active mānsīsupine mānsum); second conjugation

  1. (intransitive) I stay, REMAIN, abide quotations ▼
  2. (transitive) I awaitwait for, expect (be in store for)Mors sua quemque manet. ― Death awaits everyone.
  3. (intransitive) I wait
  4. (intransitive) I continuelastendure ====================================
  5. Mantuit(us):” remain, last saved” ;”provide remaining, “REDEEMED REMAINING

??? › stable
Rezultate de pe web
Arya IV – jstor
de la HW Bailey · 1963 ·
CLavv’a must now be connected with Latin mant- in mantu-s ‘ short mantle’, mantuitus ‘ cloaked ‘, mantica ‘ wallet ‘, mantellum ‘ covering ‘. metuere fürchten (mentuo, mentui, Note:mistake? :mentuo, mentui?

Full text of “ELEMENTS OF THE SCIENCE OF LANGUAGE … 170 § 148,^^he elements building up IndoEuropean languages . … Thus I.-E. •men-fids gives *mT}t6a The Latin mentui preserves the nasal and gives the … Slavic Church Slavic—Bulgarian Serbo- Illyrian Slavic Croatian — Slovenian Itusaian … Verb metuō (present infinitive metuereperfect active metuīsupine metūtum); third conjugation ….metuit

  1. fear, am afraid
  2. › flashcards › deck
  3. Book 1, lines 12-33 Flashcards |
  4. Languages And Literatures · Elementary Latin. Practice cardsloading… Practice cards done … metuo, -ere, mentui, -utus. fear


MentenChlamys, dis, f. Veſtis ſuperior. 
Mentenecz. Chlamydula, æ, f. 
Mentuvanye zverhu cheſza na piſzmu. Cautio, onis, f. 
Mentui Bog. Avertat Deus. avertat:WARNEDturned away
averted; avoided

Nekoji prilozi za povjest kaptolske tvrđe u Varaždinskim … › file PDF <<Ako bi potribno gda, sta Bogh mentui, moiu kerv, polegh nyh … „Varaždin koncem XVI. vijeka” u „Vjesniku kr. hrv.-slav.-dalm. zemaljskoga arkiva” 1911. J Barlé · ‎1912>>

From › prasiblaškom-l… Tautinis Brandas – Prasiblaškom versuri + traducere în Engleză 30 sept. 2014 — Kažkas ant gatvės aiškinasi mentui. Lithuanian: Kažkas ant gatvės aiškinasi mentui English: Someone at the street is explaining something to a policeman

Also an text from spanish:

by Francisco Nodar Manso › dow…PDF Rezultate de pe web in partial fulfilment of the requirements Department of … Francisco Nodar Manso. Hispanic Stud.ies. Master of Arts. Scholars … << Los criticos han analizado la lirica gallegoportuguesa
desde dos perspectivas antag5nicas

E oj’ est o prazo passado ! Por que mentui o perjurado? ai, madre, moire d’amor~. (XVII,p.l? , vv.>> Note: perhaps the meaning is “lied to” Portuguese-english mentui=”LIED

Las jarchas estan documentadas desde el siglo XI, y par tanto le corresponde a la lirica hispano-arabiga ser la mas antigua conservada escrita en una lengua romance ; como consecuencia de este hecho las investigaciones pos·teriores a la publicacion de las jarchas parten de
la lirica hispano-arabiga para dilucidar los innumerables problemas que suscita el estudio de la lirica medieval europea.

Vease para la musica gallega: J. Ribera, “De musica y metrica
gallegas”, Homena,je a Ramon Menendez Pidal, III, 1925, pags. 7-35;
Isabel Pope, “Medieval Latin Background of the Thirteenth Century Galician Lyric”, .§.]2, IX, (1943)

?? › egigerofa › docs Czuczor-Fogarasi szótár by VZ B – issuu 19 iul. 2011 — Hasonlóan a latin-hellén szerkezetű koroná-nak, mint fejet … fél ( dimidium), fel-et, fel-ek, fel-ez, fél (mentuit) tájejtéssel: fíl ?????

The historie of the Councel of Trent Conteining eight bookes … › eebo… of Saint Peter in the Vatican, of Saint Paul, and many others in diuers places, … <<Si ista vera sunt omnia, & Papae nihil mentui sunt, quid opus est Con∣cilio?>>google translate: If these things are true, & there is nothing to the mind of the Pope, what need is there Con|cilio?

=================================================== These supposed: – mantuitus:”cloacked”, (probably related to mantle, mantua) – Croatian menten:” chlamis/dis”, even supposed -Cr. mentui:”avert” – metuo /mentuo/metuere/mentui= “feared”? mentui”avert”, “lied to” ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

All are pointing to gr. mantis and manteuomai:”seer,sooth-saying, fortune-telling, oracle and so on.

In fact all above words give an intersection of mental fields of seer, cloak, chlamydis, mantle, guess, warned, etc. χλᾰμῠ́ς  (khlamús) f (genitive χλᾰμῠ́δος); third declension

  1. cloakrobemantle +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

– sumerian bārû” or “haruspex”

Haruspicy | The Prediction › haruspicy Over the thousands of years that the Babylonian, Akkadian, Sumerian and other Mesopotamian cultures thrived, their priests and astrologers developed ..

Sumerian and Babylonian Psalms – Stephen Langdon … › books › about › Sumerian_and_Bab…Jul 16, 2019 — While it is impossible to define the spheres of activity of the asipu and kalu priests, yet one fact remains clear, viz. that the psalmists (kalu)

– etruscan & roman haruspices (entrails inspection),seers,fortune-tellers – greek oracles,Zeus%20at%20Dodona%20in%20Epirus. and – greek divination “The other type of mantis was the independent consultant mentioned above. The important generals and statesmen had their own prophets, to avoid such difficulties as Agamemnon experienced, when Calchas forced him to sacrifice his daughter and ransom his female prize in the opening of The Iliad. Privately hired manteis, such as Alexander used, never seemed to disagree with command decisions, or if a possibly negative prophecy was received, made sure that it was given the most favorable interpretation. By that time, based on what Cicero said, the leaders were probably skeptical of prophecy, but the beliefs of the superstitious soldiers were a factor to be considered.”

…………and through-out time to greek mysteries : Eleusinian Mysteries – Wikipedia › wiki › Eleusinian_Mysteries ; Greco-Roman mysteries – › wiki › Greco-Roman_mysteries and world-wide & greek incubation rituals Image

Of Gods and Dreams: The Ancient Healing Sanctuary of Epidaurus - Greece Is

Incubation (ritual) – › wiki › Incubation_(ritual) <<Incubation is the religious practice of sleeping in a sacred area with the intention of experiencing a divinely inspired dream or cure. Incubation was practised by many ancient cultures. In perhaps the most well known instance among the Hebrews, found in 1 Kings 3Solomon went to Gibeon “because that was the most renowned high place to offer sacrifices.” There “the Lord appeared to Solomon in a dream at night,” and Solomon asked God for the gift of an understanding heart. Among the members of the cult of Asclepius, votive offerings found at ritual centres at EpidaurusPergamum, and Rome detail the perceived effectiveness of the method. Incubation was adopted by certain Christian sects[1] and is still used in a few Greek monasteries. Modern practices for influencing dream content by dream incubation use more research-driven techniques, but they sometimes incorporate elements reflecting these ancient beliefs.

A form of incubation was also used by ancient Greeks iatromantes. According to Peter Kingsley, iatromantis figures belonged to a wider Greek and Asian shamanic tradition with origins in Central Asia. A main ecstatic, meditative practice of these healer-prophets was incubation (ἐγκοίμησις, enkoimesis). More than just a medical technique, incubation reportedly allowed a human being to experience a fourth state of consciousness different from sleeping, dreaming, or ordinary waking: a state that Kingsley describes as “consciousness itself” and likens to the turiya or samādhi of the Indian yogic traditions.>>

Note ! in english we have cloack as mantle and cloac as primitive animals common digestive-genital tract the word related to incubation.(latin cloaca sewer, cesspitcesspool, (anatomycloaca

… before-romanians ZALMOXIS

Arhive Zamolxe | Povestea Locurilor << Zalmoxis had lived among the wisest of Greeks, such as Pythagoras, and had been initiated into Ionian life and the Eleusinian Mysteries. He built a banquet hall, and received the chiefs and his fellow countrymen at a banquet. He taught that neither his guests nor their descendants would ever die, but instead would go to a place where they would live forever in a complete happiness. He then dug an underground residence. When it was finished, he disappeared from Thrace, living for three years in his underground residence. The Thracians missed him and wept fearing him dead. The fourth year, he came back among them and thus they believed what Zalmoxis had told them.[ >>

Polovragi, pestera lui Zamolxe

Salmos (spanish “psalm”) and solomonari. <<Zeus hypothesis. King Solomon as weather-maker may derive from the Greek myth of Zeus the king of gods controlling the weather, a theory proposed by A. Oișteanu[41] This notion that Solomon’s adherents were wizards may have been popularized by the influence of the adventure tale Solomon and Morcolf.[42>> › …
Новый Завет – Мир НЗ – Bible Studies – Русские страницы
It is possible to think of him as an ‘incomplete’ Christian, as indeed was Apollos … In Jer 27,9 [LXX], the false prophets are linked with the manteuo/menoi kai_ oi( .. › webPDF pag.589 b andeie v. manteie, ( Ita/ manta smantella)

By short, the romanian word MANTUIRE=”REDEEMER” has its roots in pre-christian pagan customs wich later somehow coexisted in the same time with christian faith. Those seers, wizards, fortune-tellers, sooth-sayers ,deviners. mags, magicians associated in different measures throughout the time by people with falsity, lie-lying, pseudo-nomo, ?+fear? Also in the semanthic field “hidden-covered“, avertat=divert ,wich really divert people out of sound thinking and turning-diverting them from their previous pagan or christian faith.They were usually dressed with mantles-cloaks-capes and lived in dirt (see lat. cloaca eng. cloac). From mentitus: “counterfeit , feigned ,imitated

The History Girls: Romano-British Cloaks by Caroline Lawrence

Theat’s why gr.mantis-manteuomay is related to mantel-cloak. Also mantis has the same root as mind. Seers not see with eyes but with mindFurther mind is related from the same root to lying.(I.E. root men:” mind”, gr. mantis, μαντεύω=manteuo; lat. mentes & mentis =”mind”; mentior,mentiri,mentire:”to lie” sp.port. “mentir”Old fr. mentir etc.) <<According to one source magic in general was held in low esteem and condemned by speakers and writers……..According to Robert Parker, “magic differs from religion as weeds differ from flowers, merely by negative social evaluation”; magic was often seen as consisting of practices that range from silly superstition to the wicked and dangerous. However, magic seems to have borrowed from religion, adopting religious ceremonies and divine names, and the two are sometimes difficult to clearly distinguish. Magic is often differentiated from religion in that it is manipulative rather than supplicatory of the deities.>>

Despite I continued searches and found now-days modern greek μαντεύω prophesyforetellpredict. guess imp.2pl.μαντεύετε and

imp. pres.μαντεύομαιperf. dependent μαντευτώ › stable
Prophecy and Ecstasy in Greco-Roman Religion and … – jstor
de la T Callan · 1985 · Citat de 44 · Articole conexe
RELIGION AND IN 1 CORINTHIANS by. TERRANCE CALLAN … I will be your spokesman” (manteuo, Moisa, pr. R. Dodds comments ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

So with deep sorrow I must dissapoint and deceive some of you, showing you an sermo vulgaris vulgar latin=romance family word: MENTUITUS Note: the vulgar latin texts has a very scarce presence Participle mentītus (feminine mentītaneuter mentītum); first/second-declension participle

  1. lieddeceived
  2. pretendedfeigned › lista › pdfPDF Rezultate de pe web Amicum habes Now i know, that I had to borrow,. Beg and steal and lie and cheat. … quanto promisi , rapui, mentuitus sum et fefelli conandus te acquiscere …

??? I am puzzled cause by one hand mentuitus sum= “I lie” in vulgar latin and by the other hand tuitus is “defended” !?? tuitus Etymology Past passive participle of tueor Participle tuitus (feminine tuitaneuter tuitum); first/second-declension participle defended

But because we have no mentuitus in classical latin (only mentitus) Mentuitus only in vulgar latin I am forced to take the form wich existed.

For the moment it is of no use the meaning of TUIT:”determined” because have no word mentuit in latin.

I searched for man tuitus thinking that Wulfila used such a word in gothic german there is mann but found only:

Full text of “Handbuch der römischen Alterthümer” – Internet … › stream… (Mommsen ergänzt adeptus est, leichter ergänzt man tuitus est), ut annon[ae^ quinq[ue] … S. Siatiatique de la France, Tome XXI; Resultats generaux du denonibrement .


 HUNFALVY PÁL. AZ OLÁHOK TÖRTÉNETE.                            II. KÖTET. A MAGYAR TUDOMÁNYOS AKADÉMIA KÖNYVKIADÓ              /azolhoktrtnete02hunf_djvu.txt
 "A figyelemre méltó másik szó a mentueste^ mentiiaste különbféle írással kifejezve. Ez a mentui igének con-junctivus praesense. A Máté 27. fejezetének 24. versét:                        ^Egyebeket megtartott, de magát nem tarthatja meg»              az Új testamentomi fordítás így adja vissza:                     «Pre altii a mentuitu, eara pre sine nu poate sa se mentuiaEnnek az új fordításnak czíme : «Noulu Testamentu alu domnului si Mentuitoriului nostru Jisusu Hristosu». 
Honnan valók a mentui és mentuitoriu szók ? Pont- 
briantnak rumun-franczia szótára azt is helyesen a ma- 
gyar menteni szótól származtatja. A Megváltó az olaszban 
Salvatore^ a spanyolban Salvador^ a francziában Sauveur 
 vagy serbatoare lehetett: úgyde ezt a nyelv már az stb. miért nem képezte az oláh nyelv is a latin salvare  szóból a Megváltónak nevét? Azért nem, mert az az 
oláhban csak sárbatoare « ünnep » kifejezésére foglalta volt le. 
Azért folyamodott a magyar mentemhez.^ ebből mentui 
igét és mentuitoriu névszót képezvén.*^'' 
 A rumun nyelv nemcsak magyar szókat fogadott cl, 
melyek mind a míveltség magasabb (politikai és egyházi)" 
 I must check how is written in The Hussite Bible ( is the only written vestige of Hussitism in Hungary. The book – or at least the most of it – was translated by Tamás Pécsi and Bálint Újlaki.) 
 Romanian translation:                                          Un alt cuvânt remarcabil este mentueste mentuiaste
exprimată în scrieri diferite. Acest con-junctivus praesense. Versetul 24 din Matei 27:
<<El i-a păstrat pe alții, dar nu se poate păstra pe el însuși>>
 Revine o nouă traducere testamentară:                        «Pre altii a mentuitu, eara pre sine nu poate sa se mentuia. » Din aceasta titlul noii traduceri: «Noulu Testament alu domnului si Mentuitoriului nostru Jisusu Hristosu ».      
 De unde vin cuvintele mentui și mentuitoriu? Punct-
Dicționarul român-francez Briant este, de asemenea, corect din cuvantul maghiar menteni (salvează) cuvântul derivă. Mântuitorul în Italiana Salvatore în spaniolă Salvador în franceză Sauveur Sauveur etc. :de ce limba vlaha nu a format și latina salvare
numele Mântuitorului la propriu? Nu, pentru că în Vlaha ar putea fi doar sárbatoare sau serbatoare: așa mai departe
Limba era deja rezervată pentru termenul «vacanță».
El a făcut apel la mentemhez-ul meu maghiar. ^ Din care mentui
verb și substantiv mentuitoriu. *  
 Limba română a primit nu numai cuvinte maghiare cl, 
 care sunt toate superioare în educație (politică și ecleziastică)
Nota: Foarte stiintifica abordarea atat timp cat extrage acel pasaj Matei din propria lucrare.Cand putea face un minim efort sa vaza cum apar cuvintele in scripturi romanesti mai vechi sau foarte vechi !                                       ============== English translation ======
 "Another remarkable word is mentueste  mentuiaste expressed in different writings. This con-junctivus praesense. Verse 24 of Matthew 27:                                                     << He has kept others, but he cannot keep himself >>             A new testamentary  translation returns:  
 A new testamentary  translation returns:                     «Pre altii a mentuitu, eara pre sine nu  poate sa se mentuia. » Of this the title of the new translation: «Noulu Testamentu alu domnului si Mentuitoriului nostru Jisusu Hristosu ».         Where do the words mentui and mentuitoriu come from? Point-
The Romanian-French dictionary of briant also correctly derives it from the Hungarian word menteni (me:save). The Savior in Italy
Salvatore ^ in Spanish Salvador ^ in French Sauveur
etc. why did not the Vláh language also form the Latin salvare
the name of the Savior literally? Not because it is
in Oláh it could only be sárbatoare or serbatoare: so on
The language was already reserved for the term «holiday».     
 He appealed to my Hungarian mentemhez of which mentui
verb and mentuitoriu noun. * ^ ''
The Romanian language received not only Hungarian words cl, which are all higher in education (political and ecclesiastical          ======:  mentemhez:"cent" menteni:"swing, sweep, beckon,motionwave(one's hand), warn away from sth.  From 1749 Bible same passage    Google translate, tarthatja :"can hold" megtartott:"retained" I am asking too/the same question: Mr.PÁL, why you do not used for mentuit/mentuire (enlesh redeem,redeemer) Mentemhez-derived words, but:      1.megvalt: "realised"; 2.                                 Redeem :megvált
Redeemed :: megváltott                                    Redeemer :: Megváltó   
Camerata Hungarica - Magyarországi Evangélikus Egyház › sites › default › files › C-Section
Saviour (Megváltó)
My note: He cited the Matehew27 passage from his own paper, not from much or most ancinent romanian writings.                   In fact there is an close form latin verb mentuire .      But of course from mentire "to lie" from Latin mentīrī‎, present active infinitive of mentior:"Denominal verb from mēns, mentis‎ ("mind"). The meaning "to lie" stems from a semantic shift "to be inventive, have second thoughts" , but from the other its 3 meanings:deceive, pretendfeign because the word come to be used before christian religion from pagan devinators,wizzards.Maybe :                  - latins perceived early christians as deceive( trick or mislead)from their fate, or as well            - ancient romanians as under early christian influence perceived latin devinators & haruspices as diverting deceive( trick or mislead)them from their faith.
mentītus (masc.) (fem. mentītaneut. mentītum)
lieddeceived pretendedfeigned.If we have the same mentuire we have not rom.mentitus but mentuitu(s) wich is not present in this shape in latin, only tuitus (defended,saved) separately.

eng.(to)keep rom.(a)”pastra,continua,mentine”      1.rom. Mentine: engl.”maintain” << latin man(u)-tenere      
 2.also “remain / last-defended  rom. (a)”ramane/sfarsiaparat, salvat
3.Also lat.Man(es)-tuit(us) :” save(d)-spirit(soul)” rom. Man tuit(us): “saved soul
 I wander from wich briant french dictionary (but I will check further) he found that rom. “(a) mantui”= eng.”to redeem” is from hungarian language "menteni"!? As long as I found  also Indo-European/Romance/Old French “mentui” a form of mentevoir:
 Full text of "Grammaire sommaire de 1!ancien français .." › stream
 Mentir. Ind. prés. 2* s. mens; 3® s. ment, manL — Pas. déf. 2® s. mentis; 3** s. mentid, mentit, menti, manti ; 3® pi. mentirent. — Futur. 3" s. mentirad. — Subj. prés. 
3* s. mentet, mente. — Infin. mentir, mantir. — Part. prés, mentant. — Part, pas, mentit, mentut.   
 Mentevoir et Mentoivrk. Ind. prés, l""* s. mentoif, mantoif, mentois, mantpis; 3*^ s. mentoit; 2* pi. menlevez, menteves. — Imparf. 3® s. mentevoit. — Pas. déf. f® s. mentui, 
menti ; 3® pi. menlurent, manturenl. — Subj. prés. 3* s. mentoive, mentive. — Infin. menteveir, mentevoir, mentovoir, mentaveir, mentoivre. — Part. prés, mentevant. — Part. pas. 
menteii, manteii, mantehu, mentati, mentiut, mentut, mantu. 
 1.  Etymology: From Latin mente habēre ("have in mind"). Compare Occitan mentàver.   Mentevoir: “to mention; to speak of”
Note: Mentui from any where could come :
 - Is far from Old French mentui: “mentioned,spoked of” or other identical, at least because Romanian word “(a)mantui “ has much, many meanings as gr. Soter(ios),or engl.redeem, save.
 - Gramatical forms is evidencing by “tuit”/”tuitu(s)” possible a much older origin as romance/sermo vulgaris stage.                                                          It seem that is related to latin Balcanic/Aegean mistery rel igions, scorcerers-sooth-sayers,wizards-fortune tellers (in fact at least partly kind of crooks)                               From the time of Salmos(es)/Zalmoxis and solomonari.
 -Sp.salmos=psalm ; thr. salmos:animal skin covering(cloak).    @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
If I will have time I am convinced that this cluster:           hu. menteni/mentemhez                                          gr. men mantis manteuomai, manteuo(μαντεύω,μαντεύτε )                                        lat. mens/mentis/mentui, mentior/mentitus ;                                                rom. mantui(mentui)/mantuire(mentuire)/mantuit(mentuit),mentine, mentenanta                                              fr.mentire, mentevoir/mentui , mentener="keep"                                 engl. maintain , maintenance                                    All are stemming/originate/pertain to I.European family of languages.They have in common humankind mind wich ultimate is at the origin and determining different mental processes and physical actions.
 Révai Miklós Magyar irodalmi régiségek Antiquitates literaturae Hungaricae              Es marada anemberi Ð ket fiaytol » ferietÐl
 megvalt (Ruth 1,5), ’Remansitque mulier orbata duobus liberis suis, ac marito
 suo’  mente ’clamys’                                             A birtokos eset toldaléka a magánhangzóra végződő töveknél a választékosabb használatban a jóhangzás kedvéért szintén j-t kap, mint például:almájé, mentéjé, ollójé, bár sokan keményebben ejtik: almáé, mentéé, ollóé. Ennyit a szabályról.
  A második, rövidebb halotti beszéd
 Scerelmes bratým uımaggomuc ez scegen ember lılkıert. kıt vr ez nopun ez homus vılag tımnucebelevl mente. kınec ez nopun testet temetívc. hug
 ur uvt kegılmehel abraam. ùsaac. iacob kebeleben helhezıe. hug bırsagnop
 ívtva mend vv scentíí es unuttei cuzıcun ıov felevl ıchtotnıa ılezıe vvt. Es
 tıv bennetuc. clamate ııı. Á.
 Szerelmes barátim! vimádjamuk ez szegény ember lelkéért, kit Úr ez napon
 ez hamos világ tömnötzebelől mente, kinek ez napon testét temetjük: hogy Úr
 vőt kegyelméhel, Ábrahám, Izsák, Jákob kebelében helyhezje; hogy, bírságnap jutva, ménd vő Szentei és Önöttei közökön jov felől ioktatnia éleszje vőt.
 És tiv bennetöket. Clamate ter: Kyrie eleison!
Ha zerzendez m¹nket megzabadoitanod (uo., 13,9), ’Si decreveris nos salvare’. me: megzabadoitanod "you get rid of it"

folia uralica debreceniensia 25. - Finnugor Nyelvtudományi ... › fud › fud25 › fud25_2
PDF  4.1.2. идемс ’megvált’, идиця ’megváltó’, идема ’megváltás’
 ● сонъ идисамизь минекъ душманнокъ эйстэ да весе а вечкитсянокъ кедстэ // кучовтозесь идесамизь эсенек вардотнеде ды сетнень кедест алдо, конат кирдить
 кеж минек лангс // что спасет нас от врагов наших и от руки всех ненавидящих
 нас // megmentett minket ellenségeinktől és gyűlölőink kezétől (01:71)
 ● монь оймемъ Идится Пазомъ туртовъ эрьгеди // ды монь оймем кенярды Паздонть, монь Идицядонть // и возрадовался дух Мой о Боге, Спасителе Моем //
 és szívem ujjong megváltó Istenemben (01:47)
 ● тонъ ломатненень максатъ идимадостъ да пежетестъ кадовмадостъ чаркодьме //
 тон кармат сонзэ ломантнень чарькодевтеме идемадо, конась ашти пежетест
 нолдамосо // дать уразуметь народу Его спасение в прощении грехов их // hogy
 az üdvösség ismeretét add népének bűnei bocsánatára (01:77)
 ● монь сельмень неизь ней Тонть ломатнень идиматъ // эдь монь сельметне неизь
 тонь кучовт идеманть // ибо видели очи мои спасение Твое // mert látta szemem
 üdvösségedet (02:30)
 Ld. még: 02:11 (идиця), 03:06 (идема).
 идемс ’выручить, выкупить, спасти, избавить / auslösen, loskaufen,
 freikaufen, retten, erretten, erlösen’ (MdWb 439); ’спасти, выручить’ (ERV
 203); ’megment, kiment’ (EMSz 124); ’pelastaa, vapauttaa’ (ESS 55); идиця
 ’спаситель / erlöser’ (MdWb 441); ’спаситель’ (ERV 203); ’megmentő, megváltó’ (EMSz 124). Az идема az иде- igetőből -ма névszóképzővel alkotott
 főnév. Az идиця participium praesens alak. – Ismeretlen eredetű szó (ESM

O ipoteza de lucru (albaneza); sau “era o vreme cand pentru turmele de oi si ciobani nu erau granite”…

November 23, 2019

A se vedea: › indexing › details › pdf Fenomene dialectale purtate de păstorii ... – Diacronia                                                                                                                            << În lucrarea de faţă, ne propunem să evidenţiem rolul jucat de transhumanţă, … Aceasta a făcut posibil ca populaţiile balcanice (de exemplu, albanezii) să-i….>>



Studiind de mult timp principalele sisteme de scriere (de cca. 12 ani) am realizat ca semnele de pe tablite i-mi sant, mi-au devenit de fapt, foarte familiare. In sensul ca toate semnele de pe toate cele trei tablite se regasesc atat in aria sumeriana cat si in cea Egeeana. Am reusit diferite interpretari in acest sens, apropiindu-ma progresiv de o presupusa si dorita interpretare totala si unitara.                                                                     Din pacate, (desi este totodata stimulator), tablitele au fost un fel de fata morgana, cu imaginea neclara, dar in schimb devenind din ce in ce mai clara.                                                         Desi am constientizat faptul ca pe tablita rotunda am putea avea litere, mult timp am ramas limitat la ideea ca doar jumatatea de sus a tablitei rotunde contine scris adevaratLa o asemenea cantonare si limitare a contribuit faptul ca gandeam ca doar jumatatea de sus contine scris adevarat fiind acoperita (!?).                                                   Nici nu santem siguri ca “scriitorul” a avut in mod cert o asemenea intentie. Interesant este faptul ca nu demult am trecut foarte aproape de aceasta interpretare finala. In alfabetele arhaice grecesti folosite inainte de standardizare, semnul D s-a folosit pentru litera D intr-o parte si pentru litera R in alta parte.

Chiar si in aceasta faza finala a cercetarii mele, sant suficient de modest si sa nu am pretentia de a oferi o interpretare ori citire unica, ultimativa si adevarata. Daca ati observat, in decursul timpului am facut multe sondari, testari, incercari de citire.    ==============================================                                                                  Din

Image result for "archaic greek alphabets"                                                                     ***************************                                                                                                      Daca semnele din jumatatea superioara a tablitei rotunde asa cum par sant in realitate litere (arhaice grecesti):                                                                                                                     H, D     (Heta/Eta-Rho)                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       Din  Moonlight in Romania: The Tărtăria Tablets                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              si semnele D D o c/u, =R R s/u,                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            din                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Atunci putem avea: din albaneza:    herë    pronuntie, heră                                                                                 HeRë   RRok, care este:                                                                                                                            Din                                                     herë, hera: “time”/”timp” ;                                                                                                                      Rrok :  Din                                                   rrok: “snatch, grasp, gripe, grip, catch” =”a smulge, prinde, intelege“, unde grasp, “prinde” are atat in engleza cat si in romana sensul fizic de a prinde,cuprinde, cat si a intelege, deci “intelege timpul“,                                                                                                  Apoi, din  “time to catch up” herë  rrok : “to catch up the time” :” a prinde timpul”                                                                  ————————————————-                                                                                                    Iar daca semnul +++++ este Si (greaca Xi ?).                                                                               Din : Si: “as, like,for, such as”‘ :”pentru”  së:”the”, articolul hotarat                                                                                                                                                                       iar “here si rrok”:”as/for grasp the time“=”pentru a intelege timpul“, caz in care este vorba de un calendar.                                                                                                                                          Daca semnul +++++ semnifica cifra 50, atunci am putea avea:” a prins timp 50″ (ani), cam cat s-a constatat varsta decedatei a carei oase au fost gasite langa tablite !

Din                                                     hera se rrok hera se rrok:”more than ever”:”mai mult (timp) ca niciodata” cam tot pe acolo, exprimand oricum o varsta inaintata in trecut/acele timpuri.                                      —————————————————–                                                                                                  In sfertul din stanga-jos,                                                                                                                Din                 Image result for moonlight tartaria     avem semnele:                                       Q,  GG si jos Z. In linear A/B un semn asemanator aceluia “arc cu sageata” era folosit pentru Ko/Ku                                                                                                                                     Din Ku:”where, wherein, whither, wherever, whereabouts”/”unde“,                                                 apoi GG:”geg/GHEG“?                                                                  Zi:”mourning”/”jelire”                                                                                                                    Din    Ze:”Vox”/”voce”                                                                                                                                   Din                                       “Ku geg zi“::”that black geg”, de fapt zi nu este nici-un fel de negru, ci jelire                          Ku Gheg Zi :”unde jeleste/este jelit Gheg-ul”?                                                                                  ————————————————-                                                                                                           In sfertul din dreapta jos,                                                                                                             Din                                                                                                  Avem in semnul din stanga, cladite de sus in jos semnele: E, G, c/K           E:”of/”din,al”                                                                                                                                      GK: GeK:”gegë  geg”?

Din Gheg Albanian – Wikipedia › wiki › Gheg_Albaniann   <<Gheg Albanian (also spelled Geg Albanian; Gheg Albanian: gegnisht, Standard Albanian: gegë or gegërisht) is one of the two major varieties of Albanian. The other is Tosk on which Standard Albanian is based.>>                                                                            Din

  Image result for albanian "e gegë"

E gek:” de-al lui Gheg. Gugu”                                                                                                                      Din            e  gegë :”of gege”

Din Fustanella – Eupedia Forum › forum › threads › 25617-Fustanella › page3                                                                                                                       << Albanians were called Arvanite by Greeks in the middle ages. …. 11 geg also gugu in moesia also gygy in lydia comes from achaic gag or aga >>

————————————————————                                                                                             Semnul din dreapta are cladite de sus in jos semnele K. L, D  Ku:”where”/”unde”                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Din  lë :”leave”, “pleaca, paraseste”                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Din                                                    dhe:”and”/”si”                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Ku le dhe :’si unde pleaca“?                                                                                                                Ku le dhe “”and where let” :”si unde lasi

e gek ku le dhe:” of geg? where let and” :”and where let of geg/gegs” =”si unde lasi de-ai geg-ilor”?                                                                                                                                                  Din                                                 Dhi:”goat”/”capra

Din             e gek ku le dhi: “of a goat that let go” ? =”unul de-al caprelor/ geg/get/goth care ne lasa/se duce” ??                                                                                                                                     ——————————————————                                                                                                    Acuma se pune problema cine ar fi putut scrie tablitele.  Apar doua ipoteze mari si late: A. Vlassa sau cineva din apropiere                                                                                                    B. Un nativ albanez                                        ===================================================                                                       Pentru prima sansele sant foarte mici, cu toate caVlassa, pare intradevar a fi fost Vlah (Vlassa este o forma a lui Vlah) deoarece:                                                                                         – nu il vad atat de pregatit sa stie sa foloseasca semne asemanatoare cu cele sumeriene si chiar nici altele                                                                                                                                       – tablitele arata a fi efectiv vechi, adica au stat in pamant ani si ani de zile                             – banuiesc ca trebuia sa fi sustinut ca sant facute de daci sau vlahi si nu de sumerieni Pentru a doua ipoteza, ori                                                                                                                        – este vorba de un gen de calendar rural, dar atunci restul textului (cel putin in forma gasita de mine) nu este in concordanta                                                                                            – ori este vorba de o ceremonie funerara, caz in care oasele gasite in imediata proximitate pe de o parte vin sa sustina aceasta ipoteza, iar pe de alta intra in contradictie. Intrucat varsta lor este determinata (C14) la cca. 5.000 B.C., cand nu era nici scriere, nici albanezi, eventual doar o forma de pelasgi.                                 ===============================                                                                                                      La o incercare de apropiere folosind limba greaca, sau alte ramuri I.Europene, se pare ca pot extrage un continut relativ inchegat , dar se schimba partial topica, ramanand se pare un continut religios si sacru, ofranda cu laitmotivul “capra”. De pilda:                             Hera(s); Ed,Ede DiDOU: “ HERA,Doamn(ei) ; Ied/Mananca/sa dai                                           ? H(i)era:” obiecte sacre/parafernalia ?                                                                                               Pentru jumatatea inferioara in stanga, Din literele Q GG Z :                                                          KuG-Ga. KuGa, Kaga ; Za,Ze : “bunic, Stramos”,”ofranda,Sacru“? ; Zeu

Din Indo European Etymology – Scribd › document › Indo-European-Etymology                                                                                                                       << Proto IndoEuropean roots and their derivatives in several … alalkein; elkas, alkas alkaqw; alkar raksati ‘nemus sacrum‘ ‘protecti’, …..kaga ‘dens‘ …>>

Din Dacian Language – Romanian History and Culture › dacianlanguage                                    << KAGA: un important cuvânt dacic -37 kb …… The word καγα occurs twice, in ISM II 36 and in ISM II 138, with the meaning sacrum.>>

Din The Origin of Cuprum, Bakar and Var › old › moambe › Hlebec by B Hlebec                                                                                                                                                      <<. ….. PIE *h2euh2os > Hittite huhhas, Lith. kuga ‘grandfather‘,>>

Din Proto-Indo-European Kinship – jstor › stable   by P Friedrich – ‎1966 – ‎<<kinship from the reconstructed stages of Proto-IndoEuropean (PIE) and. Common Slavic ….. Kurylowicz (1935: 74) has argued that the root began with a Pre-Proto-Indo– …… parent’s father (Hittite huhhas), to the mother’s father (Lycian xuga).>>

Pentru jumatatea inf. dreapta din grupurile de litere E,U,G/E,G,u/s in semnul din stanga si A/E G S in semnul din dreapta:                                                                                                     EGuEGeaS, Aegis. aigis, aigos : “Eu (sant)  Aigai(on),Egeean, (scut, caprari ?

Din A Comprehensive Etymological Dictionary of the Spanish … › books                                                                                                                                                    <<efusivo, va a. effusive; efuso, sa a. effused. égida z egida f. aegis. [L. aegis, aegidis: id. <Gk. aigis: goatskin, a shield of skin <aix, aigos: goat. See *aig– in App.>> . ======================================= 

Am putea avea: HP  R o o/c  =                                                                         EPi RRoo   , unde RR=Rho, “R rotacizat”,                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Din Song of Genesis 1 | Page 2 | Religious Forums › … › << Flowings down a mountain are called streams or rivers in English. … curiosity, what background do you have in linguistics or Biblical studies? … of air ‘, it’s cognate in Gk is ῥόῳ (Rhoo) meaning ‘stream, flow of water, current’ .>>                                             Atentie, avem un gen de liniuta in interiorul primului semn D, o fi un “i“?

EPIRROO, EPIROS, (EPEIROS/ EPIROT) : “pe/peste- Rau” , sau RIVERan/vecin ?                                                                                                                                                                                          Din Latin Ēpīrus, from Ancient Greek Ἤπειρος (Ḗpeirosmainland)

Din                                                                          From Old Albanian pellëg, borrowed from Ancient Greek πέλαγος (pélagossea)

Din  Basil Chulev Pelasgi/Balasgi, Belasgians (Pelasgians/Pelasgi/Pelasti/Pelišti) – the Archaic Mythical Pelasgo/Stork-people from Macedonia                                                                                                                <<  Homer also speaks of Epirus as a chief abode
of the Pelasgoi; for Achilles addresses Ze(us) as “Dodonai Pelasgike” (i.e. „Dodonan Pelasgoi‟).11                                                                                                           ………….             They were in Ipeiros (Epirus) too, a land abounding with water brooks, with lovely mountains, and lovelier valleys, and at length settled, and erected themselves lasting habitations in the sacred neighborhood of Dodona, where the first oracle known to history flourished under the protection of the Pelasgian Zeus.      …………..                                   Macedonia, with the important difference that the Middle Bronze period, which in Central Macedonia was characterized by incised ware with Cycladic affinities, was characterized in Chalcidice by Minyan, southern in character, but adapted to local Early Bronze forms as well.

Apropos de stork-people, poporul cocostarc                                                                                   ARDeal:                                                                                                                                                     lat. ARDEA,  Ancient Greek ἐρῳδιός (erōidiós, :”heron”=starc si ARDEUS:                                                                                                                                                                                                      Din A New Universal Etymological and Pronouncing Dictionary of … › books                                                                                         (ardeusLat.) Hot; burning; fiery; fierce; vehement; having the appearance or quality of fire; passionate; affectionate    loftyhighsteeptallelevated                               “inalt,impadurit”

        ================================================================                     Semnele de pe celelalte tablite sustin si au legatura cu contextul cultic, insa apartin unor perioade si civilizatii extrem de indepartate.Ma refer la cele Egeeana si chiar mai departe la cea mama cea sumeriana.                                     *******************************************

Va intreb acuma, cum este posibil ca atatia savanti de renume, din toate domeniile de la proto-scriere, ma refer la scrierea proto-cuneiforma, pana la lingvisti si arheologi s-au lasat pacaliti cu asa-zise semne sumeriene ? Bqa mai mult, majoritatea nici nu au putut macar demonstra de o maniera convingatoare ca este vorba de scriere, ramanand agatati in aer in spatiul magic al proto-scrierii. De ce? pentru ca s-au lasat pacaliti de presupusa gasire a tablitelor intr-unul din straturile Vinca A/C si de varsta unor oase la cca. 5.300 B.C. Felicitari D-le Marco Merlini si dragi cercetatori si arheologi romani !

Common traits in the very beginning of writing

November 22, 2018

Some other scientists found that one particular pictogram was used in different places in writing .Quite slightly different in shape. It is about the eye. But every scientist showed mainly symilar eye-shapes for only twoo different places. I discovered that there was an much extended phenomenom. I will show you more than 4-5 places in the world. The explanation I’ve found is the fact that humans have the same physical body, and nervous system (read basic way of thinking).

But there was another pictogram used in the same semantic field, the fish. There is no other simple connection for humans for the idea of light other than eye. Light is entering in us through eyes.Close yes and have no light. Eye-light is kind of short-cut between, eliminating every word or philosophy upon.

It is true, light is coming mainly from Sun, but if you figure sun thinking possible turn in first time to celestial star and the light is only 2-nd, close-associated.

I discovered that it seems that the eye-shape was used for logograms and phonemes for light. I suppose the fish-shape was used for bright-light or “bright,shining”.

I will show you some 6 exemples:

A (1). Vinca-culture.So many statuettes with the eyes depicted as letter D with, or without eye-lashes. My personal suppozition, (expressed one year before) was that upon if the sign has an associated meaning that was the light, whatever sounded. For “shiny-bright” they used fish. Vinca-culture 6.000-4.000 B.C. Image, from Neolithic Vinca Terracotta Human/Bison Head – Ancient Art & Antiquities

Image, from

The fish was for the idea of bright (bright, shiny-God), the same to identical later sumerian Oanes and old hebrew Dagon ( dag was for fish). Vinca-culture, Bel Brdo 6.000 B.C. See, from


Imagini pentru fish-god Bronze AgeThe god Dagon first appears in extant records about 2500 BC in the Mari texts and in personal Amorite names in which the Mesopotamian gods Ilu (Ēl), Dagan, and Adad are especially common. (my note, phoenician Dagon, hebrew Dagan)

B(2) Jiahu writing

                                                                                                                                                  From                                            Here’s a collection of 目 (eye) characters in the oracle script:


.T “the former qualification, in subsequent periods used to denote
the distribution of above all rations to dependent workers and animals, seems best translated in archaic
sources with ‘inspected’ (‘and found to be available’, pictogram “eye”), roughly corresponding to later Sumerian gub or gal, or possibly gurum (IGI+GAR). 10 ” My note:probable reffering to sign IGI?

“The Sumerian noun is typically a one or two syllable root (igi “eye, e2 …”

Imagini pentru proto-cuneiform sumerian                                                                                                      From SUMERIAN PROTO-CUNEIFORM SIGN LIST                                    Proto-cuneiform sign Di:                                                                                                                                                                                                                           From:  New Indology: Sumerian and Indo-European: a surprising connection                

B(2) Indus script From

C(3) Hieroglyphic Cretan ?Do/Du”?                                           

Hierogliphyc Cretan, sign No.005 From

Note: Unknown rendering

Linear A. From

The major obstacle here is the missing phonetic value for Linear A *301 (the ‘slave’ or ‘acrobat’ sign). Since it is not an easy task to find the missing value (more on this in a later post), we have almost no clue of the meaning of this word. Unless we make a bold move and substitute a fitting Etruscan-Lemnian stem here. The best (given the context, and the rare *AI diphtongal cluster) appears to be the etruscan word-stem *AIS = “God, Divinity”. If so, the value for *301 needs to be of either the S- or the Z-series (perhaps *ZU). Notwithstanding, the reading for a libation text beginning with ‘This/The god…’ appears incorrect. Therefore we have to assume that whatever A-I-*301-… meant, was more of a “divine gift” or “divine sacrifice” than being simply ‘god’ or ‘gods’.

Image from The most peculiar Minoan sign ever seen

My note. Close to egyptian eye !! “the eye of Horus”

Linear B, sign “Zu?” From Richard Wallance’s blog,

Me: yes, “Zu” as P.I.E.-root “Di”>DIas/Zeu,Zou,Zu,Zeus:”light”

From  Documents in Minoan, Luwian, Semitic and Pelasgian  Fred Woudhuizen file:///C:/Users/User/Downloads/Documents_in_Minoan_Luwian_Semitic_and_P.pdf     

“In their table of comparisons, Olivier & Godart plausibly propose the correspondence of CHIC038 “gate” to L32 ya, CHIC092 “horn” to L55 ru, and CHIC005 eye to L101 zu.”
49 ……………                                                                                                                                       “This inference is further emphasized by the fact that the Cretan hieroglyphic “eye” sign is more remotely related to Luwian hieroglyphic *191, which depicts three pairs of eyes in a row and stands for the all-seeing sun-god, TIWATA, ti6—thus leading us to the syllabic value ti6 according to the acrophonic principle.56 “

ETEOCRETAN. What? Why !? What have to do with our tablets?

April 21, 2018

  1. Here is not the place nor wasting your time explaining what is ETEOCRETAN                                2. Out of my intention to bother you or get to in a much complex situation. From :                 The sibilants                                                                                                                       Greek also did not have the range of sibilant consonants that the Semitic languages had, and the use and naming of these consonants shows confusion on the part of the Greeks. The old Phoenician alphabet has four sibilants:
    1. zai zeta whose sound was /z/. It was used from the start to represent a sound which varied in the Greek dialects thus: [dd] ~ [zd] ~ [zz] (see ‘Phonemic Values of Archaic Letters‘ below).
    2. semk semk whose sound was /s/. It is found in some of the archaic alphabets as an alternative way of writing zeta. It was later used in eastern Ionian alphabets to denote /ks/, but this usage is not attested in any of the archaic alphabets nor known in the alphabets of the western Greeks. The letter occurs in the Praisos #1 inscription and is discussed in the next two sections below.

      Phonemic Values of Archaic Letters                                            zai (zeta): the sound denoted by this symbol seems to have varied in different Greek dialects. Some instances of classical ζ derive from earlier /sd/, e.g. ἵζω (hizo) “I seat” ← *si-sd-ō (cf. Latin: sīdō). The majority of cases, however, derive from a earlier */dj/, */gj/ suggesting that sound denoted by ‘z’ in transcriptions of Mycenaean Linear B was /dj/ or an affricate such as [ʤ] or [ʣ]. It would seem, however, that in the archaic and classical periods, by a process of assimilation or metathesis, the sound varied in the dialects between [dd], [zd] and [zz] with the latter becoming the norm by the Hellenistic period and giving way eventually to the modern Greek [z].                     

      In Cretan Greek [dd] was the norm and the spelling δδ is also found. But there appears to have been a tendency in Crete to devoice this combination as ττ is also found for standard Greek ζ; indeed, we also occassionally find actual /tt/ spelled ζ.

      For the above, see: M. Lejeune, Phonétique historique du Mycénien et du Grec ancien, Paris, 1972, pp112 sqq.; W.S. Allen, Vox Graeca, Cambridge UK, 1968, pp. 53 sqq.; C.D. Buck, The Greek Dialects, Chicago, 1955, p. 71 sq., and pp. 313 sqq. However, the letter zeta does not occur in any of the extant Eteocretan texts, so it may not directly concern us here, unless….

    3. semksemk is found on Praisos #1. As stated above, we can discount the value /ks/ given to this symbol by the Ionians. It would be a gross anachronism to find it used this way in a late 7th century or early 6th century inscription from Crete. There are only two credible possibilities:
      • As in some other local scripts, it is merely used as a variant of zeta and, therefore, presumably denotes either /dd/ or /tt/.
      • It really is semk and is being used to represent a sibilant not known in contemporary Greek. The clear presence of Ϝσ (ws)on Praisos #3 may indicate that Eteocretan possessed a labialized sibilant []].                         —————————————————————————————————-     That’s why, out of +++++ DDoo signs we could have: []…                                     1. Syrroo>syrrou :” of Syros,Syrian” as Hera Syrou:”Lady of Syros,or Syrian Lady”.Apropos of “Syrian Lady” this could be begining (sory about large time-ecart) one from A-SA-SA-RA to “Syrian woman” from Bible book wich supposed brought Christianism in Europe.                                   2. even Su(“your”) DDoo>DDou=DZOU. So to have not “kind of tetragrammaton” but TETRAGRAMMATON in 4 letters D D O O.        That’s why when get a string through both tablets (superpose holes ) the squared table cover the upper half text (fact noticed by Mr.Marco Merlini).So  the sacred name is hidden!
      • And we could have as entire half of the round tablet:
      • Image result for archaic letter eta chethHistory of the letter h. The letter H may have started as a picture sign of a fence, as in very early Semitic writing used about 1500 BCE on the Sinai Peninsula (1). About 1000 BCE, in Byblos and other Phoenician and Canaanite centres, the sign was given a linear form (2), the source of all later forms. The sign was called cheth in the Semitic languages, which may have meant “fence.” The sound expressed by the cheth sign stood for a pharyngeal sound which is not found in the English language. The Greeks renamed the sign eta and used it in two functions—first for the consonant h and then for the long vowel e (3). The Romans took over the form H (4), with the sound value of the English h.
      • HP/HD? (Heta,consonant eta!/Eta)-Rho;     DDOO:                                                EDE DiDou! :”GIVE(us) EAT
      • HEROS,(Hera?) DiDou! :”LORD(Lady?) GIVE US(..daily bread) (the root
      • Note:*hed is common for edo,”I eat” ede!:”eat!” edible etc. and alb.Ed lat.ede:”kid-goat!” hedus, gr. hedus pleasant,sweet)                           or:
      • ……………….and now you see,understand why I took your time.Also hope understand  my obstination to use “our (Balkan)signs” not “their (sumerian) signs” 
      • Also you have kind of gift, as to see, 

        derive from a earlier */dj/, */gj/ suggesting that sound denoted by ‘z’ in transcriptions of Mycenaean Linear B was /dj/ or an affricate such as [ʤ]

      •  How the VERY INDO-EUROPEAN ROOT Di=”light” was transmited through time in the name of GOD                                                                                                                                              ———————————————————————————————-Ariel D.T. Stamped Amphora Handles from Tel Mikhal (Tel Michal ……/Ariel_D.T._Stamped_Amphora_Handles_from_Tel_Mikhal_T&#8230;

         I know of no attempt at determining an A significant number of stamps with an etarho internal chronology for this prolific fabricant, ligature have been published. … of similar—but circular—stamps as Samian, 1990:42, S96, 99–101). and maintained that the monogram stood for Hera or her sanctuary.

        The Temple of Apollo Bassitas: The architecture

        Frederick A. Cooper – 1992 – ‎Architecture

        heta-rho as B P, or Ionic etarho as HP. The distinction between long epsilon and eta is not to be taken as a chronological indicator but as a geographical one. The combined letters must then represent a word or name, irjp ,25 because there is no suitable ordinal or word denoting position. Hera or hero are possibilities, .

        Table of archaic Cretan alphabet of Dreros and Praisos

        Semitic name ᾽alf bēt gaml delt wau zai ḥēt ṭēt jōd kaf
        Archaic Cretan
        alpha beta early gammalater gamma deltaalternative delta epsilon digamma zeta, (semk) eta theta early iotalater iota kappa
        Standard Greek
        α β γ δ ε ϝ ζ η θ ι κ
        Modern Roman
        a b g d e w z ē i k
        Semitic name lamd mēm nūn semk ῾ain ṣādē qōf rōš šīn tau (wau)
        Archaic Cretan
        lamba mu nu semk o pi san (not
        rho (not
        tau early ulater u
        Standard Greek
        λ μ ν ζ? ο π σ ρ τ υ
        Modern Roman
        l m n z? o p s r t u
      • Note                                                                                                                          Till nowdays the Di particle in the name of God scarcely remained as  “DD” :                                                                                                                         In sicilian, From: Complete List of Keywords › Proverbs › ProvKeyWds  Ddiu n.m. God. Also: Diu. Ddò n.m. title, honorific
      • From › books
        Pasquale Scialò, Francesca Seller, Anthony R. DelDonna · 2015 · Music
        Furthermore, the word “dio” is pronounced [ ddìo]; “dio” also doubles in Neapolitan. ... indicate something significant while avoiding mention of the name of God), “Ddio” (God


April 11, 2018

There are many questions wich allmost remained without responce:                                                    -It is writing, of wich kind?                                                                                                                  -It is proto-writing or writing; if writing,wich kind?                                                                       -What is the period of time in wich were made?                                                                            -Who was the supposed writer?                                                                                                          -To wich culture partained tablets and he or her?                                                                          -Are tablets real or fakes?                                                                                                                    -Why no scientist engaged in close research and give strait answers?                          ………….An other (more than ten)  questions.

Read more:                                                                                    The Danubian Neolithical cultures that makes the so-called Dabunian Civilisation (Vinca-Turdaș, Criș, Hamangia, Cucuteni, Gumelnița, Boian etc) were in fact the offsprings of migrations from Anatolia and Fertile Crescent toward Europe of early agricultors and the Vinca-Turdaș script, while the oldest system of writing in the world, didn’t developed in a large scale practice, there are no more than some hundreds discoveries of pottery shards and other pieces bearing (usually only one) such signs and the society wasn’t yet highly structured and hierarchized like the Sumerian one.                                                                                                                                And perhaps more important, the Vinca-Turdaș script was an isolated phenomenon, it disappeared with the end of this material culture (with some echos perhaps in the later Cucuteni culture).

From  :                           Sa nu ma atacati inainte de a trece o noapte.                                                                              Nu stiu exact cum s-a intamplat, insa doar oasele au fost datate cu C14.Rezultatul este ca 99% din cercetatorii din lume stiu ca tablitele au fost datate.In consecinta,toti acestia iau de buna varsta de 5200 BC.Mai rau este ca toti incep sa-si modifice teoriile legate de neoliticul European si despre istoria Scrisului.                                                                Varsta aceasta poate sau nu fi adevarata.                                                                                Insa toti ar trebui sa stie ca nu tablitele au fost datate ci numai oasele! In (forensic science) criminalistica vasta unui obiect nu se translateaza ca fiind aceeasi cu varsta unui alt obiect,chiar aflat in imediata vecinatate! Dupa cate am inteles in arheologie cand se poate cand nu, de cele mai multe ori da.Nu uitati ca in situl arheologic a fost haloimesul de pe lume.Nu s-a lucrat cf. tehnicilor actuale.asa daca ne gandim puteau pica din zeci de cm de mai sus.(Unii zic ca se lucra “la norma” si posibil Vlassa a luat tablitele din miile de obecte de-a lui Szofia Torma)Nimeni in lume si nicaieri nu a luat cineva vre-un pix in mana (cuneus) inainte de 3200-3500 BC.Nici macar ca sa faca tablite pictografice, darmite cu semne!                                                                                         Cu respect, ing. Eugen Rau Timisoara

I not agree the folowing!:The Hittites Quote:

Originally Posted by CARPATHIAN

The European population of Turdaș-Vinča culture discovered the writing and the metallurgy for the first time in human history and brought these discoveries to Mesopotamia where the Vinča Script was developed into the Cuneiform Script and the Sumerian culture has reached higher levels of development because of the hierarchization of society that brought the possibility of erecting imposing temples and cities.     ———————————————————————————————————–

regarding tablet’s age: So many questions

Radiocarbon dating – is it applicable to clay? Where are the tablets now? —Ghirla-трёп- 04:13, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

No, it isn’t. Radiocarbon dating may only be applied to organic artifacts. The original Tartaria tablets were of dried, unbaked clay. The Romanian scientists baked them in an oven, to avoid their decay, but any subsequent dating by thermoluminescence (which is the usual method for the age determnation of ceramic artifacts) became impossible.–Mazarin07(talk) 23:38, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

The radio-carbon dating was performed not on the tablets themselves but on the bones with which they were found and with which they are presumed to have been buried. The article’s (currently) second external link is to a report dated 2004 of an investigation of the bones, tablets etc that dates the bones to a calibrated r-c span of 5370-5140BC. Incidentally, that report also corrects several of the original excavator’s incorrect assumptions which the article currently still contains. For example, the bones were not burnt, and are of an elderly female, not a male. I leave it to someone with more wiki-fu to study the report and update the article. (talk) 13:37, 4 November 2008 (UTC)                                                                                                                                               ——————————————————————————————————————————-       To have the quickest possible responce to above questions, and have proper understanding, I will begin with the most important aspect,out of all others:                     – For a college (or above) level wiewer (no counting here scientists) something is shocking or striking :                                                                                                                              -There are three tablets wich normally distanced in time one of another 500-1000 years; could be showed and given to average cultural level people as kind of exemples for some of main  steps/stages by wich evolved the writing:

1-tartaria-tablets-spoza                                                                                          (Periods of time are as raw refference)                                                                                               1-Iconic stage,usually as before 3.500 B.C.                                                                                         2-Proto-hierogliphic stage as between 3500(east)-2200(west) B.C.                                             –Hierogliphic  stage between 3.000(east)-2000(west) B.C.                                                             3 –Syllabary, alphabetic stage between 2500(est)-1.500(west) B.C.                                                 One writer cannot know well all three systems of writing, but even so, cannot live in all above period/span of time.                                                                                                                         So there are only three explanations:                                                                                           1.-the tablets are not related one with another                                                                               2.-the tablets are fakes                                                                                                                       3–the tablets are made in later times (B.C.),by somebody who knew proper writing and also knew some-how ( kind of cultural transmission) some older signs and icons and some ideas/recollection of theyr meaning. He/her made another twoo as kind of school to stress the ancestor’s esteem and/or show how predecessors wrote.                                                                           I am inclined to support the last hypothesis.                                                                                  ————————————————————————————-                                                      Some twelve years before, I saw for the first time the tablets pictures.After got knoledge  of writing landscape and evolving, after 24 hrs. only I remained with the strong impression that on the round tablet we have signs as letters.     I recognised many signs wich were used as letters in archaic greek alphabets.Despite this. I cannot identify all signs as letters in 100% proportion in any alphabet.Highest percentage in identifying work had carian folowed by old greek and iberian alphabets. Even for some years i had (and have) a reading upon archaic greek alphabets.Here I had the support of eteocretan alphabet and writing.later, one month before I could find all the signs of both written tablets (out of pictographic) using sumerian signs. Also I could use of cretan hierogliphic,Linear A/B signs for both tablets but encountered some difficulties (2 signs:bow+arrow and >>) at that round-one. I am not counting those hierogliphic-like,complex signs wich can be icons but as well ligatured letters. these very icons had the prime effect that one to keep scientists at distance because are also vave a mysterius appearance. In my understanding, Linear A/B begun in Aegean area and there also finished there.No gain large acceptance and not known or extended in Europe and other areas. After that, begun to be known better in Europe phoinikeia grammata “phoenician letters” with followers old hebrew and greek alphabet.                                     But in the European people’s and cultural turmoil , different peoples addapted and gave their own and quite/slight different use of those signs.                                       ————————————————————————————————-                                                     Very interesting, I saw one month before old runic Bulgarian alphabet and realised that I have many of signs there.But not gave proper attention.Taking account that there are some related issues between gothic,nordic and Balcan(Blugarian) areas, I realised that there were contacts between those cultures wich continued till christianism full emerged in Europe. See:                                                                                                        From Scandinavia and the Balkans: Cultural Interactions with Byzantium … Minaeva, ‎Lena Holmquist        “The solar sign in the inscription also possesses the magical meaning of the character. In greek papyrus texts,it is a planetary symbol and denotes various vocalisations from the greek alphabet:usually H or T. ….In papyrus texts,the moon is also presented

This once again highlights the relationship between the discussed monument and Gothic literary culture discovered in present-day Bulgaria.47 The solar sign in the … 8 of the treasure from Nagyszentmiklós, which is dedicated to the complex nature of the Christian God according to Gnostic Christian views of Middle Eastern …”

ould be kind of contact between Cycladic  Keros/Syros population and early “Servos” from near-by Serres.

From site:

bulgar_runic_letters-1                                              ———————————————————————————————————————————-       Even if I would  begin such an attempt, another obstacle want to block my optimismus:    The artefacts found near-by at the archeological site. Artefacts that wanting to speak that something is related to Aegean and specific to Cyclades area (don’t ask me why but my mind was focussed by the center of Cyclades, Keros-Syros islands):                                           -one Spondyllus-shell bracelet                                                                                                           -one figurine/statuettes made in Cyclades style                                                                             -one alabaster footed-pot  also in perfect cycladic style. Not to mention that in Aegean/Greek aereas were found hundred of tablets with proper writing, Linear A/B or archaic greek, in our area (Bulgaria-Serbia-Macedonia) a few written tablets , around or above  five (e.g. Ezerovo ring-supposed thracian but no one  clear read or deciphered)                          ———————————————————————————————-



Letters Heta/Eta-Rho :”HeRo,HeRa,HaR,Haro”=Hero,Lady,Charm,Death

Upper-Right Sign +++++ is +++ ?  From                     Values of the vowels                                                                                                                         As for long and short vowels, only /e/ could have separate symbols for the two quantities, namely eta for “long e” and epsilon for “short e”. In fact in Greek spelling it was not even as simple as that. Ancient Greek had two “long e” sounds: low-mid [ɛː] and high-mid [eː]. In Greek eta denoted only the long low-mid sound; epsilon had to do duty for both the short sound and the long high-mid sound (until ει (ei) came to be used to denote /eː/ in the 5th century BCE). We see this in the Cretan Greek inscriptions from Dreros. Whether Eteocretan used similar spelling conventions or whether epsilon was always short, we have no way of knowing; all we can safely assume is that eta is always long.                                                                                                          Values of consonants                                                                                                                    The consonants, for the most part, denoted the same phonemes as those denoted in the International Phonetic Alphabet by the Roman transcription shown in the table above; the only two exceptions are:                                                                                              1.zai (zeta): the sound denoted by this symbol seems to have varied in different Greek dialects. Some instances of classical ζ derive from earlier /sd/, e.g. ἵζω (hizo) “I seat” ← *si-sd-ō (cf. Latin: sīdō). The majority of cases, however, derive from a earlier */dj/, */gj/ suggesting that sound denoted by ‘z’ in transcriptions of Mycenaean Linear B was /dj/ or an affricate such as [ʤ] or [ʣ]. It would seem, however, that in the archaic and classical periods, by a process of assimilation or metathesis, the sound varied in the dialects between [dd], [zd] and [zz] with the latter becoming the norm by the Hellenistic period and giving way eventually to the modern Greek [z].
In Cretan Greek [dd] was the norm and the spelling δδ is also found.                        2.semksemk is found on Praisos #1. As stated above, we can discount the value /ks/ given to this symbol by the Ionians. It would be a gross anachronism to find it used this way in a late 7th century or early 6th century inscription from Crete. There are only two credible possibilities:                                                                                                                            As in some other local scripts, it is merely used as a variant of zeta and, therefore, presumably denotes either /dd/ or /tt/.                                                                                              It really is semk and is being used to represent a sibilant not known in contemporary Greek. The clear presence of Ϝσ (ws)on Praisos #3 may indicate that Eteocretan possessed a labialized sibilant []].

Upper-Right quarter,signs:                                                                                                          +++++                                                                                                                                              (i?)D(i?) D o o                                                                                                                                           Letters:                                             Se?Su?                                                                                                                                                    ( i)R(i) R o o

Reading: Surroo=Surrou Seirroo>Seirrou ;seiroo>seirrou                                                      Such stars astronomers call seirious on account of the tremulous motion of their light;…….so that it would seem that the word, in its forms seir, seiros, and seirios, —  Suidas used all three for both sun and star, — originally was employed to indicate any bright and sparkling heavenly object, but in the course of time became a proper name for this brightest of all the stars.

From Hermes Scythicus Or the Radical Affinities of the Greek and Latin …     … “Syr, or Seir,” he adds, “which the Persians “employed to denominate the sun, seems to be “ the same with Thor, only in a different dialect. “The ancient people of the north … › Archive › sci.lang › 2004-07Cached
13 Jul 2004 – be understood as the sun, shining on the male head or king and the ear of grain  The peculiar name Seyr for Zeus may have a correspondence in the Hittite  well worthy of Zeus, who was the supreme Greek god already in ..…/message/8177?o=1… – United StatesCached
You +1’d this publicly. Undo
25 Aug 2001 – Please respond to the idea that “Seir = Sun“…. that’s all I really  Sirius was the name of the dog that accompanied the Greek Hero > Orion!

6. eugenrau     Posted 28 October 2012 – 00:21                                                                                                     seir=seiros=xeros=ca si xerox=rom/uscator; en./schorcherer=a fost aplicat in vechime atat pentru soare cat si pentru sirius seira:”cordrope

From Queen of heaven (antiquity) – Wikipedia                                 Queen of Heaven was a title given to a number of ancient sky goddesses worshipped throughout the ancient Mediterranean and Near East during ancient times. Goddesses known to have been referred to by the title include Inanna, Anat, Isis, Astarte, Hera, and possibly Asherah (by the prophet Jeremiah). In Greco-Roman …

So,possible:                                                                                                                                       Hera          Sun(Zeus)                                                                                                                      Hero          Sirius(Osiris)           >> pre-Christ.?                                                                           Hera       Syrrou (lady from Syria/Syros?)   …..there’are saying in Bible that christianism was brought by a Syrian woman                                                                                                HaR         Seirrou   chord of Charm (Har<>charis)                                                                        chord/rope of <=>of Sun/Sirius/Hera

seir<!>seira ; thrac.syros:”pit”(osiris burial/rebirth?)


Note: “rr” is for “rho” and “oo” used before-time changed to “ou” and in some cases “omega” ; rroo=rhou (rom.rau=river):”flow,course” from v.”rheo” (could be also Hora rrou=”flow oftime)

Reconstruction:Proto-Indo-European/sóh₂wl̥ – Wiktionaryóh₂wl̥

 This Proto-IndoEuropean entry contains reconstructed words and roots. As such, the term(s) in this entry are … Ancient Greek: ἥλιος (hḗlios). Doric Greek: αέλιος (aélios) … Sanskrit: स्वर् (svàr, “sun,sunlight”), सूर्य (sūrya, “sunSun deity”) (< *suh₂l-)
From ZOULIANAZOUTOLAKKO – ZONIANA       In this way Zas (Zeus) became both the founder and godfather of the village. When he died, he was buried there and from his tomb, his pit which is a synonym of his grave, the place was named “Zou’s Pit” (“Zeu’s Pit’’), in other words Zou’s (Zeus) grave. For instance a common phrase in Greek used when someone is at death’s door is that ‘He/she has one foot in the grave’ or when someone is already dead that ‘He/she has filled one’s pit’.  Soon enough this name prevailed and until the second decade of the 19th century it was named “Zou’s Pit’ (Tou Zou to Lakko) and that is how Zouliana was named and still is the afore-mentioned neighbourhood. In this way it becomes clear that both names ZOULIANA and ZOYTOLAKKO derive from ZA which is one of the numerous names of ZEUS; among other names he was called Zeus, Dias, Zas, Zis, Zan, Dan, Tan, etc. Today the village is named Zoniana which name also derives from Zeus as we will find out. The village’s inhabitants, the so-called Zoulakkianoi or Zoulakkites, when they wanted to say: “Oh my God” (as we say today) or “Listen to me God”, they used to say: “Zone God” (Zone Thee) or “Listen to me Zone God” (Listen to me Zone Thee). Only Zoulakkianoi used this kind of appeal to address God. The inhabitants of Anogeia used to say: “Zane God” (Zane Thee



KOGAION, AION and ION.Origin and linguistic relations.

April 7, 2018

KOGAION, AION and ION.Origin and linguistic relations.

They’re origin it is in the deepest time.                                                                                    From The Nostratic Macrofamily: A Study in Distant Linguistic Relationship  Allan R. Bomhard, ‎John C. Kerns

Pokorny 1959:517-518 *kago-, *kogo-, -a- ‘goat‘; Walde 1927-1932.1:336-337 *qago-, *qogo-, -a-; Mann 1984-1987:459 *kag- ‘goat, kid, goatskin‘; …


Sumerians used to associate an particle as an etiquette to gods and kings,

For gods at the begining there was written the sign DINGIR:”GOD” with the sign star *.

Linguists when read a text put at the begining of word the equivalent latin sign D.

For kings they usually associate an enhacement part to be understood sacred,god-like:

Lugal+ Name+ Kuga

man-great Name high,pure,sacred

Fundamentals of Sumerian Grammar / Grundzuge der Sumerischen Grammatik

Arno Poebel, ‎K. C. Hanson ; kug-a „glänzend“, „rein“, „heilig“

For supposed name KOGAION wich seems an distorted new name, could be interpreted shortly

1.KUGA-ION :”Grandfather-Ion”because in Lycian Kuga is for grandfather.

You will ask: and what we have in common with Lycians?

*They say that the common origin of Romanians and Latin People it is in Lidia and Lycia.

Romans thought and were learned at school that they came from Lidia and theyr ancestor was Ludus.

Romanian knows that Dacians were related to wolf as theyr stindard/standard was.Lycos in greek is for wolf (thought as having sparkling,shining eyes in the night (gr.Lycos/shine,, light,rom.”a luci” to shine).

2.KUGAION, KUGA-AION, “temple,sacred aabode of Ion” because

MUSAION,or HERAION are MUSA+AION,HERA+AION fixed place,temple of MUSA(arts) or HERA. Kogaionon was the holy mountain of the Geto-Dacians, the place where Zalmoxis stayed in an underground cave for three years. After his disappearance into Kogaionon, he was considered dead by the Getae but after three years he resurrected and showed himself to the people, who became convinced by his holy preaching when he emerged from Kogaionon.

Strabo claims that a river with the same name flowed in the vicinity.

One modern translation of Kogaionon is “sacred mountain”, which would be connected to a probable Dacian word kaga meaning “sacred”, attested in two early 2nd century inscriptions from Tomis.

ion,gr.”mooving”, aion:”fixed” aionon:”infinite time,eternal”

So Kogaionon it has twoo meanings at the same time:

koga-aionon :sacred-eternal and sacred-Ion’s temple or rather of God of infinite time,Aion.

In fact KOGAION it is not distorted because KOGA is a linguistics shift common in I.European languages and not only:


Goga has the origin at king GUGU name known as Gyges.

GUG/GOG it is an I.European root wich signify “round,great,swelled,high”

Also has the meaning of ruller (IE root Ag) : DEMAGOGOS:DEMOS-AGOGOS:”ruller of people”.

Relative to Ion,was an ancestor of greek and latin people like Pelegus (“pelasgian”) but much older.

Because Ion is related to Oannes an this to Sky/God “AN” or chtonik En-Ki.

KUGA-ION is like KUGA-AN wich is wrong,not the case because KUGA-AN is sumerian equivalent of God Azag,an underground,death-land god of Death.Instead KUGA-an-na.

only 1 second:———————————————————————————————————

Not only have GODEANU mountain range (GUD-ANU,Gudanna?)

Encyclopedia of Beasts and Monsters in Myth, Legend and Folklore Theresa Bane

Variations: BULL OF HEAVEN, Gugalana A monstrous bull from ancient Sumer, Gudanna (“an attacker”) was described as being gigantic and having breath so poisonous it could kill two hundred warriors at a time. …….

Gugalanna – Wikipedia

In Sumerian religion, Gugalanna is the first husband of Ereshkigal, the queen of the Underworld.

——————————————————————————————————-                              Instead KUGA-AN-AN it is: “sacred,pure-god-sky”

An(En) + An = Lord,god+Sky                                                                                                                —————————————

Nowdays asian people have kogea > trk Hogea rom.kogeamite :”somehow abnormal,exceseeve big”

Khawaja or khwaja (Arabic: خواجة‎) is an honorific title used across the Middle East, South Asia, Southeast Asia and Central Asia, particularly towards Sufi teachers. The word comes from the Iranian word khwāja (New Persian: خواجه khāje; Dari khājah; Tajik khoja) and translates as “master”, “lord” or in archaic sense “gentleman”. The spellings hodja or hoca (Turkish), খাজা (Khaaja) (Bengali), hodža(Bosnian), hoxha (Albanian), hodža (Serbian), hotzakis (Greek), hogea (Romanian), koja (Javanese)[1] and al-khawaja[2] are also used. The name is also used in Egypt and Sudan to indicate a person with a foreign nationality or foreign heritage. Khawaja is also a surname amongst ethnic Kashmiris.



I want to make things and issues clear,so I don’t know (only have personal soughts and ideas):

1. what kind of people,genetics,from where came OLD EUROPE/Danubian/Vinca-Turdas culture people

2.When, and by wich route/way came “proper Ind-Europeans”

3.if lycians ,lidians were native Anatolians, relatives of Hittites,or distant-relative of Sumerians

4.if they migrated to Europe or there was early Danubian migrations to Anatolia (as Bruges>Phrigians supposed were)

5.How many main waves of supposed agriculturalist people from Sumer or Anatolia were and when

6.if relative small groups of sumerians or Anatolians come in Serbia and Dacia in search for metals; if they used as primary skill metal working not agricultural-one.

7. if Dacians were, and in what degree related to Lycians,Guttians(people from Zagros M.tains wich concured Sumer).

8.what was exactly relation of Danubians with Aegeans.                                                             ———————————————————————————————–                                                  From                                          < Radu cel frumos este, poate, Domnul care lasa inteinsa $i o tipsie de argint (de 29 centimetre in diametru), ce se pastreaza si pana azi, purtand pe cercul buzii, gravatd, Cu litere slavone mari si frumos taiate, urmätoarea in- scriptie :
mldia bjdeia lo Radul Voevoda i gn. vdsei zemli Un- grovlah,iskoi sn blcitvago i hrotliubivago lo Vlada Veli-kago Voevoda.
Adica :
t Cu mils. lui Dumnezeu, Io Radul Voevod si Domn al toatei Orel
Ungrovlahiei, fiul preacuviosului si de Hristos iubitorului Io Vlad
marele Voevod. >

From                                                    Dictionary: κἀγώ   Greek transliteration: kagō “and I, I also, but I”,                                          a crasis of και and ἐγώ, dat., κἀμοι, acc., κἀμέ


Din κάγα: un important cuvânt dacic1

Heroi sacrum
Ti(berius) Claudius Mu-
casius v(otum) s(olvit) l(ibens) m(erito)
Hερώϊι (sic!) ΚΑΤΑ Τι(βέριος)
Κλαύδιος Μου-
κάσιος εὐξάμ[ε-
νος καθιέρωσε[ν

Inscr. ISM II (Tomis), n.128-Drawing                                                                                                                              Ofrandă lui Heros. Tiberius Claudius Mucasius şi-a îndeplinit juruinţa, cu dragă inimă şi pe bună dreptate “. Formula de încheiere, abrevierea V•S•L•M bine cunoscută epigrafiştilor, indică limpede o inscripţie votivă6. Iată însă ce spune acelaşi Tiberius Claudius, de data aceasta în greceşte: ” Lui Ērōs KATA. Tiberios Claudios Mukasios a consacrat (după cum) a promis “. Dacă, aşa cum am văzut, varianta latină este limpede, în cea greacă apare în schimb acest KATA, neexplicat satisfăcător de nici unul din editorii inscripţiei. Primul dintre ei, Gr. Tocilescu, încercând, la 1895, să-i dea totuşi un înţeles plauzibil, îl consideră pe KATA un adjectiv al lui Ērōi şi propune – de aceea – interpretarea lui drept o prescurtare a unui κατα(χθόνιος) “subpământean”, un epitet ori o ipostază a zeului. În lipsa unei alte explicaţii mai consistente propunerea a fost acceptată de toţi editorii ulteriori – şi admisă în literatura de specialitate. Ea are însă cel puţin două mari neajunsuri care atrag atenţia: 1. mai întâi ar presupune o diferenţă considerabilă între variantele latină şi greacă ale dedicaţiei, căci kata(chthōnios) “subpământean” lipseşte din textul latin, în timp ce acesta conţine pe sacrum “jertfă“, inexistent în versiunea greacă. 2. abrevierea kata pentru katachthōnios ar reprezenta un “dublu unicat”: pe de o parte ar fi singura oară când acest cuvânt s-ar prescurta astfel în inscripţiile greceşti, pe de alta acesta ar fi singurul loc în care zeul epihoric Hērōs ar fi numit “subpământean”. Toate aceste dificultăţi ar fi putut fi evitate dacă atât Tocilescu, cât mai ales editorii de mai târziu, ar fi privit cu mai multă atenţie piatra pe care, aşa cum se poate vedea în fig.1 şi 2, lapicidul a scris nu ΚΑΤΑ , ci ΚΑΓΑ !

Begin. Tab. I. A. Α̈̓ιδιοτης, æternitas, perpetuitas. [A Greek-Latin …

Kaga , tondeo: scindo, abscindo : populor, vasto: in saciabili edacitate voro. 

Cata- | Define Cata- at

Cata- definition, a prefix meaning “down,” “against,” “back,” occurring originally in … Greek kata-, combining form of katádown, through, against, according to, … this prefix is found in English mostly in words borrowed through Latin after c.1500.
me:                                                                                                                                                       Lui Ērōs prin/catre Tiberios Claudios Mukasios cum a promis ”                                INSCRIPTIA ESTE IN LIMBA GREACA; IN GREACA NU EXISTA KAGA


April 3, 2018



“D” shape was for the idea of light ?  and sounded “Di”?

From The Roots of the Sanskrit Language – jstor

by WD Whitneye ….. du, 1 di, burn. Not in RV. dus, spoil. In V., only caus. and derivatives. duh, milk, derive. 1 dr, pierce, split. drp, rave, talk big. drg, see. Lacks a pres.-system.

From               Gr.βόωψ boōps “cow-eyes”; europos “big-eyes”

From An eye light is a light that creates a small sparkle of light reflected from the eye’s surface, giving sparkle to the subject’s eyes. Without the eye light, the eyes would seem lifeless and unemotional.

From Psalms, Proverbs – Page 555 – Google Books Result

Mark Futato, ‎George M. Schwab, ‎Philip W. Comfort -15:30 A cheerful look. Precisely, “the light of the eyes.” “Light” is equated with life in 4:18; 6:23; 13:9.

[PDF]Derivatives of Nostratic Root Morpheme *Ya – “To Shine, To Glow, To …  *– “to shine, to glimmer”

 From New Indology: Sumerian and Indo-European: a surprising connection Sum. di ‘to shine’, PIE *diH/daiH/diw- ‘to shine, glitter; day, Sun; god’, Skr. – ‘to shine, be bright’, dina ‘day’, Armenian tiw ‘day’, Luwian Tiwat- ‘Sun god’, …

 Reconstruction:Proto-Indo-European/deyws – Wiktionary

*dyew- (“sky, heaven”); *dyew- > *diw– (zero-grade) > *deyw-

EVIDENCE OF MINOAN ASTRONOMY AND CALENDRICAL PRACTICES Marianna Ridderstad                                              Another likely celestial symbol is the ‘eye’ with very prominent ‘eye-lashes’ (CHIC:387). The ‘eye’ is sometimes depicted as ‘rising’ over a (horizon?) line, which casts the doubt that it, too, is a solar symbol (CHIC #314). This may be related to the later belief of the sun as the eye of Zeus (Olcott 1914:288).

ANTONN BARTONEK T H E PHONIC EVALUATIO N OF THE S- AND Z- SIGNS IN MYCENAEA N  Lurja, while treating this question, starts with refusing—first in his article Opyt ctenija pilosskikh nadpisej, Vest, drevnej istorii 1955, vol. 3, pp. 8-36, but mainly in his work Jazyk i kultura 50 sqq.—to ascribe the D- series of Mycenaean signs the explosive character. He believes that due to a pre-Greek substratum there had occurred in Mycenaean several phonic changes which most Greek dialects did never fully accomplish and of which only a very few odd traces were left in the Classical Era; thus assuming the shift of the proto-Greek d into some kind of (d)z he transcribes all Ventris’s D- signs as Z-signs, and goes on designating in this connection Ventris’s Z- series—not quite convincingly—as “C- series”, ascribing it with an all-round validity the phonetic value of a “soft (palatalized) variant” of the phone k.2…………………………………………1. It is probable that the very adoption of the Linear Script for rendering Greek witnessed already the tendency of reproducing with the Z- spelling all phonic formations governed by the so-called second assibilation, i. e. the voiced substitute for the original j-, -dj-, -gj-, on the one hand [this substitute being very likely at that time not far from the affricate dz going back to d’d’], and the voiceless substitute for the inter-morphemic -t(h)j- or for any -k(h)j- and -tw-, on the other hand [the latter substitute being again probably not far from the affricate tj going back to t’t’]; in either of these cases the Z- series of signs was employed just to express rather the purely palatal, i . e. the still non-affricate, shade of the two substitutes, a shade that was just in all probability disappearing…………………..The couple of affricate phonemes ts, dz, which formed counterparts as to voice. Their phonetic character underwent the following pre-Mycenaean and Mycenaean process of evolution: from various original formations through t’t’ [which absorbed also k’k’] and through d’d’ [absorbing also g’g’ and evidently even a part of the initial proto-Greek j’-], 5 4 then through tj [which had very likely directly absorbed the original tiv] and through dz, assuming finally the forms ts, dz………………………16.The most important exceptions: Central Cretan, Boeotian, Laconian, Elean and the Thessaliotic subdialect of Thessalian with their DD(!deltadelta), or later TT—all this being, of course, only a special continuation of the affricate dz.

Nominal composition in Mycenaean Greek – Wiley Online Library  Mycenaean Greek is given and a classification attempted. Thereafter, issues in their phonology …. compound must not be considered `rien autre qu’une varieÂte de la formation des noms, au meÃme titre que la ….. pu2-ru might be interpreted as `having white eye-brows’ (leyko3w and o1ýry9w), but the presence of ro still …

Me: !!                                                                                                                                              Linear A sign *79 (‘eye’)  Linear A, “ZU” 

In other place thay say it is “DO”


From                                                                              This exclusion rule can be applied to the Linear A sign *79 (‘eye’) to show why it cannot represent the value ‘ZU’ (that was assigned to it by John Younger et al.). The case-ruling example we find on the tablet ZA4,row a.5 where the term QE-SI-*79-E can be read. The same name recurs on tablet ZA15. Now, if the reading of *79 were ‘ZU’, we would rather expect an ending ZU-WE (with a not well characterised linear A WE sign) and NOT ZU-E. On the other hand, the value suggested and used by many (e.g Glen Gordon) for this linear A sign: ‘DO’, fits perfectly, as DO-E is absolutely possible.                                            But the case of LinA *79 has to approached with care. Apparently, there are two distinct LinearB signs (*79 and *14) corresponding to single cluster (*79) Linear A. I label it as a cluster, as it contains signs of very variable design: it is easily possible that there are two signs lumped into a single cluster: at least one of these is (with resonably high probability) is the Linear A counterpart of Linear B ‘DO’ sign (LinB *14).

From BayndorJune 4, 2010 at 8:50 AM

I must admit, if my derivation of the Lin A *79 is peculiar, then the theory on the ‘TO’ sign must sound straightforwardly strange. It is an ‘I don’t have any better idea’ type of theory. Because Hieroglyphics features a sign: ‘bovine head in front’, that is not even uncommon, it must have a Linear A descendant. But if one checks it – based on shape, frequency and distribution – there are only two viable candidates: TO or DI. While I could not remove sign DI from the list of possible readings, it is only the TO sign that admits a good etymology. If we go with the reading DO (from *tau) for the ‘eye’, then a clearly parallel derivation would be the value TO for the ‘bull’ sign (from *thaura). I only thought of this second one, because it could prove a regular development of *aw diphtongs in Minoan into *o. Unfortunately, I could not meaningfully analyse the PO sign (as I don’t know what it depicts), or the RO sign. On the other hand, the KO sign might depict a coriander seed, but we cannot approach it from an etymological direction (as the origins of the word coriander [Lin B KO-RI-JA-DA-NA] are obscure).                        Otherwise, if we don’t accept the reading DO for Lin A*79, we could still try a similar value like DWA. That would not invalidate the etymology, and could give a solution for the pressing problem of having two Linear B signs when Lin A had just one.

From Various Versions of the Linear A Libation Formula, again, but now in ……/Various_Versions_of_the_Linear_A_Libation_Formula_again_…  Next, na-ta-n$-ti6 (with a solar variant of L 101 or AB 79 zu in its, against the background of its origin from the Cretan hieroglyphic “eye” [= solar symbol, cf. the “all …            Anatolian go the same way,                                          Anatolian: *diu- (“daylight god”)

  • Lycian: ziw
  • Lydian: Divi-
  • Luwian: tiwat (“a sun god”)
  • Palaic: tiyaz, tiuna                                                                                                                   But Luwians gos that eye sign to mean eye.Ti,eye,related to I.E.di/ti root for light:”ti6”=eye

3 articles on Celtiberian (Sasamón), Luwian hieroglyphic (Mira), and ……/3_articles_on_Celtiberian_Sasamón_Luwian_hieroglyphic_Mir…                                                                                                        another early Cretan hieroglyphic inscription in combina- tion with the spider4 as an alternative means to render the titular expression usually occurring in form of 044-046 “trowel-adze” or 044-005 “trowel-eye” pi-tı¯ or pi-ti6 = Egyptian bi’ty “king” (Fig. 6). Furthermore, it ultimately …

From Pre-Mycenaean Greeks in Crete | iurii mosenkis –                                             qu > z (Linear A zo ‘spear’ and zu ‘eye‘) similar to Phrygian qu > k (que > ke,Mycenaean que, Greek te).

From Nirjhar00727 December 2016 at 04:13

This is interesting . We already had the related discussion . In Sumerian there is UTU , in epsd it is given as utu-e3 “sunrise” , utu-šu2-uš; utu-šuš2 “sunset; the West”. There is also a ki’utu [LOCUS] ki-dutu “a cultic location; a ritual”. Not sure about the ritual . but if we read Bomhard there he gives this :
233. Proto-Nostratic root *t’ay– (~ *t’ǝy-) or *t’iy– (~ *t’ey-):
(vb.) *t’ay- or *t’iy- ‘to shine, to gleam, to be bright, to glitter, to glow; to
burn brightly’;
(n.) *t’ay-a or *t’iy-a ‘light, brightness, heat’
A. Dravidian: Tamil tī, tīy ‘to be burnt, charred, blighted’; Malayalam tī ‘fire’;
Kota ti·y- (ti·c-) ‘to be singed, roasted’; Toda ti·y- (ti·s-) ‘to be singed’, ti·y-
(ti·c-) ‘to singe, to roast’; Kannaḍa tī ‘to burn, to scorch, to singe, to
parch’; Telugu tīṇḍrincu, tī͂ḍirincu ‘to shine’, tīṇḍra ‘light, brightness,
heat’; Brahui tīn ‘scorching, scorching heat’, tīrūnk ‘spark’. Burrow—
Emeneau 1984:285, no. 3266.
B. Proto-Indo-European *t’ey-/*t’oy-/*t’i- ‘to shine, to be bright’: Sanskrit
dī́deti ‘to shine, to be bright; to shine forth, to excel, to please, to be
admired’, devá-ḥ ‘(n.) a deity, god; (adj.) heavenly, divine’, dyótate ‘to
shine, to be bright or brilliant’, dyáuḥ ‘heaven, sky, day’, divá-ḥ ‘heaven,
sky, day’, divyá-ḥ ‘divine, heavenly, celestial; supernatural, wonderful,
magical; charming, beautiful, agreeable’, dīpyáte ‘to blaze, to flare, to
shine, to be luminous or illustrious; to glow, to burn’, dīptá-ḥ ‘blazing,
flaming, hot, shining, bright, brilliant, splendid’, dína-ḥ ‘day’; Greek δῖος
heavenly; noble, excellent; divine, marvelous’, Ζεύς ‘Zeus, the sky-god’;
Armenian tiw ‘day’; Latin diēs ‘day’, deus ‘god’; Old Irish die ‘day’; Old
Icelandic teitr ‘glad, cheerful, merry’, tívorr (pl. tívar) ‘god’; Old English
Tīw name of a deity identified with Mars; Lithuanian dienà ‘day’, diẽvas
‘god’, dailùs ‘refined, elegant, graceful’; Old Church Slavic dьnь ‘day’;
Hittite (dat.-loc. sg.) šiwatti ‘day’, (gen. sg.) ši-(i-)ú-na-aš ‘god’; Luwian
(acc. pl.) ti-wa-ri-ya ‘sun’, (nom. sg.) Ti-wa-az name of the sun-god (=
Sumerian ᵈUTU, Akkadian ŠAMŠU, Hittite Ištanu-); Hieroglyphic Luwian
SOL-wa/i-za-sa (*Tiwats or *Tiwazas) name of the sun-god; Palaic (nom.
sg.) Ti-ya-az(-)
C. Etruscan tin ‘day’, tiu, tiv-, tiur ‘moon, month’; Rhaetic tiu-ti ‘to the
Sumerian dé ‘to smelt’, dé, dè, dè-dal ‘ashes’, dè, diû ‘glowing embers’, dèdal-
la ‘torch’, diû ‘to flare up, to light up; to be radiant, shining; to sparkle, to
Buck 1949:1.51 sky, heavens; 1.52 sun; 1.53 moon; 1.84 ashes; 1.85 burn
(vb.); 14.41 day; 14.71 month; 15.56 shine; 16.71 good (adj.); 16.81 beautiful
(also pretty). Caldwell 1913:620. Bomhard—Kerns 1994:303—304, no. 119.
Different (unlikely) etymology in Dolgopolsky to appear, no. 2241, *tiʔû ‘to
shine, to be bright, to be seen’.
Buck 1949:1.51 sky, heavens; 1.52 sun; 1.53 moon; 1.84 ashes; 1.85 burn
(vb.); 14.41 day; 14.71 month; 15.56 shine; 16.71 good (adj.); 16.81 beautiful
(also pretty). Caldwell 1913:620. Bomhard—Kerns 1994:303—304, no. 119.
Different (unlikely) etymology in Dolgopolsky to appear, no. 2241, *tiʔû ‘to
shine, to be bright, to be seen’.
…………………………………………………………………….                                                                          Perhaps we have an Indo-European related Sun divinity in Sumerian?.                              So, my theory(someh-how like the big-bang theory wich by common-sense reasoning advanced this hipothesys of an original emergency point)’                                                         -so in a simylar way, but with twoo way strong evidences, in the same way I go back trough the time:                                                                                                                                     -pre euphratean stage,UNKNOWN !                                                                                          Proto-Nostratic root *t’ay- (~ *t’ǝy-) or *t’iy- (~ *t’ey-)                                                                    Proto-Euphratean (n.) *t’ay-a or *t’iy-a ‘light, brightness, heat’
A. Dravidian: Tamil tī, tīy ‘to be burnt, charred, blighted’; Malayalam tī ‘fire’;
Euphratean Sum. di ‘to shine‘, PIE *diH/daiH/diw- ‘to shine, glitter; day, Sun; god’                   -proto Indo-european stage *t’ay- or *t’iy- ‘to shine, to gleam, to be bright, to glitter, to glow; to burn brightly’                                                                                                              Anatolian IAnatolian: *diu- (“daylight god”)                                                                            -proper IE stage,Sanskrit
́deti ‘to shine, to be bright; to shine forth, to excel, to please, to be
Averrage aproximate time-line(by me)                                                                                        Proto-Nostratic-Nostratic15.000-12.000 hypothetical ancestral language of the Nostratic family is called Proto-Nostratic.[2] Proto-Nostratic would have been spoken between 15,000 and 12,000 BCE, in the Epipaleolithic period, close to the end of the last glacial period.[3]                                                                                                             Proto-euphratean (unknown) :12.000-7000 BC ! OLD EUROPE!                                                                          Mixed Euphratean-Proto-I.E. -Archaic Sumero-tamil stage:7000-3500 BCOLD EUROPE!                                                                                                                                         Proto-Aegean/EBA Cycladic stage:3500-2500 B.C.                                                                      Full IE:2500-1500 B.C. (2500 Minoan was not full-IE)                                                       Anatolian(Indo-Hittite) 2500-1000 B.C.   Minoan/mixed/unknown/Linear A:2500-2000 Eteocretan,Hieroglyphic Cretan                                                                                               Linear B 2.200-1000B.C.(start of greek language)                                                              Archaic Greek:1500-500 BC; Homeric: 500BC >1                                                               Koine:1> 500A.D.                                                                                                *******************   Danubian/Old European Gods   ****************************                    Despite the fact that T’ay /t’iy/t’ey/t’ei/T’iy/T’iy-a/Ti,                                                           And could have such a “T/Ti” deity,there are many evidences of a linguistic change, Ti > Di so as had egyptians Ti related deities,we could hav an IE “Di” starting deity.In such long-distance ancient times they not have an structured-organised panteon of gods by logical order.They had (many?) deities folowing not a structured order,but folowing exact their stringent practical needs (warm,feeding..)                                                                                   So ,out of other many possible Gods and Goddesses and their denominations,(e.g.Bird-Mother-Goddess)this-one could be one of their gods related to living(easy catch fish feeding):                                                                                                                                    BelBrdo/Serbia=(brdo/twrdo”whirlpool)” 6500BC old dwelling Danube site :                                                                                                                                          DAG :”(make a living=fertility)god”?With some-how celestian origin,  DAG-AN: (shine-sky):“Sky-God”(old hebrew DAGON)?                                                                                  Sum. dag, dadag ‘(to be) bright; to clean; (ritually) pure                                                   This “creature”is the same with :                                                                                                                                               From Nostratic Etymological Index Cover – bulgari-istoria                                                            ProtoNostratic (n.) *da- ‘mother, sister‘; (reduplicated) (n.) *da-da- ‘mother, sister’ (nursery words). 144. ProtoNostratic root *dab- (~ *dǝb-):. (vb.) *dab- ‘to make fast, to join together, to fit together, to fasten (together)‘;. (n.) *dab-a ‘joining, fitting, fastening’. 145. ProtoNostratic root *dag (~ *dǝg-):. (vb.) dag– ‘to put, to place, …                            From Dagon – Wikipedia                                                  A long-standing association with the word for “fish” dâg, perhaps going back to the Iron Age, has led to an interpretation as a “fish-god”, and the association of “merman” motifs in Assyrian art (such as the “Dagon” relief found by Austen Henry Layard in the 1840s). The god’s name was, however, more likely derived from a …                                             From Diakonoff – External Connections of the Sumerian Language | Plural ……/Diakonoff-External-Connections-of-the-Sumerian-Langua…  … question (probably the ProtoIndoEuropeans); the new tribes ousted the backward ….. 15. dag ‘clean,washed, dadag ‘clean’ 16. ene, ane …                                                       From Sumerian Lexicon…/sumeriandictionaryreliable.pdf by JA Halloran – ‎                                                                                                         Sumerian…… dág: brilliant; pure; clean (‘to go out’ + aga(3), ‘diadem, circlet, crown’). dig: v., to …                                                                                                                                       From New Indology: Sumerian and Indo-European: a surprising connection                                                                                                                                Sum. dag, dadag ‘(to be) bright; to clean; (ritually) pure, PIE *dhagwh- ‘to burn, shine, Old Saxon, Middle Dutch, Dutch dag, Gothic dags ‘day’, Tocharian A tsāk- ‘to shine, give light’, AB cok ‘lamp’, Old Irish daig ‘fire’, Old Prussian dagis ‘summer’, Lith. degti ‘to burn’, Skt. dahati ‘to burn’,dagdha ‘burnt’, …


TARTARIA ROUND TABLET,Upper half,astonishing findings.

April 2, 2018




Archeologists (Gh.Lazarovici,Marco Merlini and others) after detailed analysis of on-field conditions and circumstances along with the artefacts found close-by advanced as possible story or scenario that is one of the folowings :
– an death/burial or hero/ancestor worshipping ritual
– an foundation ritual
– an usual/common religious,propitiating ritual for some God(s) performed by the Lady Tartaria=priestess when alive.
See at the finish of my paper excerpts from different related studies.
See the left quarter,

Firs sign is (see folowing image,…Nu,6,3-rd)?


in linear A the sign “NU” Image from



If linear A “NU” is like folowing,

PDF › sumd › sumeri…
by JA Halloran
B. Alster, Proverbs of Ancient Sumer: The World’s Earliest Proverb Collections, 2 vols; …… nud, nú: to lie down; to lie together with ( with -da-); to lay down (with -ni-); to sleep; to …

Linear A,”PA2=PAi”?

Folowing sign has the shape of D or P.But that letter “D,De.Di”was not invented yet!
So we take the sign as MOON/MONTH, with the reading MINI,MINU gr.MENE/MENO
So NU-MENO.Here it is appearing the word “NUMENO/NUMENO”
(as to note,scientists as Richard Vallance Janke if it is finding an latin-like word he is rejecting,in favor of another greek-one)

I renounce to take the sign as linear A “NU”.Just in case,as a kind of testing:

So: NU + Moon sign (MENE/MENO?)
What NUMENO stand for? So NU-MENO.This is the little known lat.NUMEN
(as to note,scientists as Richard Vallance Janke if it is finding an latin-like word he is rejecting,in favor ov another greek-one)
Numen, pl. numina, is a Latin term for “divinity”, or a “divine presence”, “divine will.” The Latin authors defined it as follows.[1] Cicero writes of a “divine mind” (divina mens), a god “wh
Etymologically, the word means “a nod of the head”, here referring to a deity as it were “nodding”, or making its will or its presence known). According to H. J. Rose:
The literal meaning is simply “a nod”, or more accurately, for it is a passive formation, “that which is produced by nodding”, just as flamen is “that which is produced by blowing”, i.e., a gust of wind. It came to mean “the product or expression of power” — not, be it noted, power itself.[8]
Thus, numen (divinity) is not personified (although it can be a personal attribute) and should be distinguished from deus (god).[9]
Definition as a pre-animistic phase of religion
The expression Numen inest appears in Ovid’s Fasti (III, 296) and has been translated as ‘There is a spirit here’.[12] Its interpretation, and in particular the exact sense of numen has been discussed extensively in the literature.[13]
The supposition that a numinous presence in the natural world supposed in the earliest layers of Italic religion, as it were an “animistic” element left over in historical Roman religion and especially in the etymology of Latin theonyms,….

The Empire Strikes Out: Kurd Lasswitz, Hans Dominik, and the … William B. Fischer “Nume” may be intended to suggest, in addition, both Latin “numen,” meaning “god” or “divinity,” and Greek “noumenon,” a true ideal or entity perceived by the rational faculty, … Thus, for example, they find it necessary to give the Earthmen terrestrial equivalents of their own time units: “When will [the departure] take place?

But we don’t know for shure if the sign H with 3 bars is from cretan hieroglyphic or Linear A/B.
In linear B it stands for PA3. From

I new that PA,

*pa- | Origin and meaning of root *pa- by Online Etymology Dictionary*pa-

.*-, Proto-Indo-European root meaning “to protect, feed.” It forms all or part of: antipasto; appanage; bannock; bezoar; companion; company; feed; fodder; food; forage; foray; foster; fur; furrier; impanate; pabulum; panatela; panic (n.2) “type of grass;” pannier; panocha; pantry; pastern; pastor; pasture; pester; repast; satrap.
*pāy- Nostratic etymology: Nostratic etymology

Meaning: to guard, to graze, to feed
Hittite: pahs- (pahhas-) (II) ‘schützen, verwahren’ (Friedrich 153)
Old Indian: pati, ptc. pāta-, pāna-, aor. apāsīt `to watch, keep, preserve’; pā́- (in comp.) m. `keeping, guarding’, pāyú- m. `guard, protector’, pāla- m. `guard, protector, keeper’, pāvan- (in comp.) `protecting’, pātár- n. `defending, defender’; nŕ̥-pīti- f. `protection of men’, nr̥-pa- m. `protector of men, king’
Old Greek: ep. pōü, -eos n. `Schafherde’, poimen, -énos m. `Hirt, Schafhirt’, pói̯mnǟ f. `(Schaf)herde’; pō̂ma n. `Deckel (an Kasten, Krügen, Köchern etc.)’

PA, as single,could mean (PA,proto indoeuropean root for protection):
gods | Minoan Linear A, Linear B, Knossos & Mycenae
Then on the second line he uses the ideogram for “she goat”, again followed by the number 1 and by the syllabogram PA right truncated. If all this seems a mystery to you, it is not to me. The syllabogramPA right truncated on the second line almost certainly means pasi teoi = to all the gods, which in turn implies sapaketeriya …

If so,:PA+ MENO. My first association is gr. POIMEN :”shepperd”

Foreword: The return of ethnographic theory – The University of …
shepherd of people” (in Greek, poimen laon), the term laos expressing a personal bond between king as guide …. the plurality of life and its beings appears as a singularity and b) a figure of vital externality, through ….. eventfulness embedded within images [1990b]; the partial and non-linear nature of knowledge [1991a]); .
But is PAMEN with PA not with O,besides it is appearing I.No problem with I cause PA could be read Pa.Pai etc.

[PDF]F I L I P P O F E R L A U T O…/matdid501333.pdf
; questi segni avevano valore …. (a, e, i, o, u) per sillabe aperte (consonante + vocale) quali聽pa, pe, pi, po, pu, … indica la quantit, n tanto meno il grado di apertura che la quantit.

I found written form PA-MEN (=Poimen?)=”Shepperd?”
KN He (06) 03 is a medallion with two faces inscribed and two numbers. One of the faces reads:
Pameni po-lo 100
The foals (polo(i)) for this year (pameni has the dative ending, but cf. Greek pammenos)
Please also note that the pictogram for pa looks like a house (cf. Minoan pa-na-so,
place of the house/temple)

Po-me=poimen po-me-no=poimenos, po-me-ne=poimenei

!! This shepperd is the very silhuette on pictographic tablet found together with the other twoo tablets.(Also there you have the grain sign “TE”,and kind of ibex/wild goat)
2.desire, ardor, wish, purpose
4.courage, spirit, vigor
5.power, strength, force
The reading of the left quarter is PA-MENO (cf.pameni,pammenos =pan/pam menos=all months)

“PROTECT, GRAZE, TO FEED, POIMEN/Shepperd” are consistent with the pictographic tablet found near-by (out of total of three),On the tablet there are depiced: an vegetal motif, kind of human silhuette? and a goat.



Upper sign, +++++,it is grain,wheat,sitos,”TE” From 

As has more than three strokes (5 or ^) Could be Te-TE?

See sign “TE” in Linear A: 

Definition of “inscription” By convention, an “inscription” is defined as two or more signs in conjunction, a word. A single sign may be an abbreviation of a word (e.g., Linear B o for o-pe-ro, “owed”, “deficit”), or, commonly in Linear A, a transaction sign, like sign *42 A (“to” NAME?) and TE (“from”? NAME). In the Minoan Linear A inscription, there are many aids to help the modern reader. First of all, there are loan words from different languages. For instance, the abbreviation “te,” commonly used on the tablets, has convincingly been shown by Jan Best and Fred Woudhuizen to be an abbreviation of an expression “telu” which appears to be related to an Assyrian word meaning delivery (Best and Woudhuizen 1988, 24).
First signs,D D don’t know what meaning to atribute them,as long as D-shape sign was not yet invented,
So the single solution is to think as the MOON-sign,wit the reading “MENO”.
But here I think the meaning it is not intended to moon or month but to its basic meaning :”constant,continous”or others direct derived.
μένω • (ménō)
1.I stay, wait
1.(in battle) I stand fast
2.I stay where I am
3.I lodge
4.I tarry; I loiter, am idle
5.(of things) I am lasting; I remain, stand
6.(of condition) I remain
7.I abide by

8.(impersonal, with infinitive) it remains quotations ▼
2.(of persons) I await, expect quotations ▼
1.I wait for (accusative) to (infinitive)
A MANa :”to drive”raMAN:”remain”
A MANa :”stay,remain,LODGE”

So:”I(remain,abide)”; MENO,MENO-an,MINOAN”
my rendering “remain,abide
Now,interesting:some 7 years before I noticed that the upper sign gas a line to the second D.

You can see clear on picture.Whoever made the above drawing not made an accurate-one.See again what I am telling about:

At that time, I wondered if (line) intended or not.I told this to Mr.Marco Merlini.Not responded or much interested.
Now see: the upper sign is rendered in Linear A/B as :”TE”.Beeing binded/ligatured wit “D”-moon-shape we have:
TE+MENO,wich is TEMENO gr.TEMENOS:”shrine,temple”

priestess | Minoan Linear A, Linear B, Knossos & Mycenae
we find that the last supersyllabogram, TE, may readily and realistically rendered as temeno, which in Mycenaean Greek means “a temple”.
A piece of land marked off from common uses and assigned as an official domain, especially to a king, chief, or god.
· A sacred circle where one can be oneself without fear.                                            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~                                                                                                                  Very, very interesting,: From

<< Sum. temen, Akk. temmenu, temennu ‘foundation (deposit)’,                                         PIE *dhā-man/dha-mn̥- ‘what is placed or set’, Skt. dhāman- ‘dwelling-place, abode; law’, Greek thema what is placed or laid down: deposit; position of land; grammatical stem’; themethla, theme(i)lia ‘foundations‘, themelios ‘foundation-stone’. In Greek we have also temenos ‘a piece of land cut off and assigned as an official domain’, especially to kings and to temples of gods. According to the analysis of Dunham (1986), Sum. temen often refers to a marked off area, and also the boundaries and the corners of the area, and Whittaker remarks that temen is the reading of the ‘perimeter sign’, so something very similar to the temenos. Manessy-Guitton already in 1966 proposed that temenos comes from temen, but temenos seems to have a very clear etymology from the Greek tem-no ‘to cut‘, which is made stronger by the comparison with Latin templum, originally indicating a delimited space in the sky for auspices, but also a space consecrated to the gods (the temple) and a transverse beam. So, if temen and temenos have a relation, we should admit that temen comes from the same root tem- as temenos and templum. The temen sign is done with two crosses and a rope, like this:
x—x. Rather than a perimeter, it is one side of it, and, as Dunham remarks, it is like a string between two pegs, and he also suggests that temen indicates the foundation peg (or set of pegs). If he is right, the root of temen is more likely ‘to put, place’ (the pegs) than ‘to cut’ (the area of the foundations).>>

Relating to the King MINOS,
MYNOS (MUNOS,MINOS,MENOS), his name is related to:
μένος • (ménos) n (genitive μένεος or μένους); third declension
2.desire, ardor, wish, purpose
4.courage, spirit, vigor
5.power, strength, force
As in romanian language we have:
1.MINte/MINte,MENtal (mind/to lie,of the mind)
5.6.MANios (gr.MANiakos)

Citadel to City-State: The Transformation of Greece, 1200-700 B.C.E. › books
Carol G. Thomas, Craig Conant ·
The term appears in Linear B as te- me-no and refers to lands given to, or owned by, a god, the wanax (as in wa-na-ke-te-ro te-me- no), or the lawagetas (as in ra-wa-ke-si-jo …

The signs: “OO” or “OC”?

Could be numbers:

Thus: o o – | | o would be 312 and o o in Linear B,would be 200.

Table 5 Table of 27 supersyllabograms in Minoan Linear A. KEY to supersyllabograms in Linear A: fi = figs. gr = grains (wheat). ma = man, person. oo = olivesVvocabulary | Minoan Linear A, Linear B, Knossos & Mycenae

What with the latest signs OO,OC ?
If OC,first is the linear A “KE”


Second it is in the same linear A,the moon :”MENO”
What does it mean?

id you mean: kemono linguistics
Germanic Dialects: Linguistic and Philological Investigations › books
Bela Brogyanyi, Thomas Krömmelbein ·IE *kem—eno— > Gmc. *hem—ina— > Engl. heaven. › sites › hvs › pdfs by Y DUHOUX · Cited by 34 · Related articles It does not help that except for Linear B none of the languages written in. Greece in …. which sees in qe-ja-me-no a title / kweyamenos/ ‘révérend, honoré’ (cf. tíw ‘ honour, revere …

KE-ME-NO is the greek KEiMENO?….radher opion is for qe-ja-me-no.
κεῖμαι • (keîmai) lie, lie outstretched lie asleep, repose, lie idle, lie still lie sick or wounded, lie in misery lie dead lie neglected, uncared for, unburied
5.(of wrestlers) to have a fall
2.(of places) to lie, be situated
1.(of things) to lie in a place be laid up, be in store (of goods, property, etc.) be set up, proposed
1.(of laws) to be laid down
2.(of arguments) to be laid down
3.(of names) to be given
5.(figuratively) be in the power of be in such a manner be settle down, deposit a sediment
5.(grammar, of words and phrases) to be found, to occur

On the Weaving of Texts – Glossologics › …
Nov 26, 2013 · It is κείμενο ( keimeno), from κείμαι (keimai), meaning “lie, be placed”, and is … Similarly logical, leaving the Indo-European family and travelling to .
I think kemeno/keimeno are related to kome and comates,residents of come(village),but here are residents of a much large area Minoan/Mycenaean area.

Corpus of Mycenaean Inscriptions from Knossos:
John Chadwick, ‎L. Godart, ‎J. T. Killen  [ .5 ] ko-me-no vir 1[ ] no-do-ro-we D A [ • • • .2 Traces at left, perhaps ]re ; perhaps …

Germanic Dialects: Linguistic and Philological Investigations
Bela Brogyanyi, ‎Thomas Krömmelbein – 1986 – ‎Language Arts & Disciplines
1887), and many of the other early constructors of the Indo-European edifice. Historical linguistics has persevered within the petrifying framework of derivational continua: *X > *Y > Z; IE *kem—eno— > Gmc. *hem—ina— > Engl. heaven.

Whole upper half:
+++++ = TE=”From”
THIS (Thing empowered,with) lie,placed (text) YEAR God’s power and Will REMAIN,ABIDE TEMPLE 200?HEAVEN(of) the Sky)?sun&MOON?’
From the archeological site items and data some scientists (Gh.Lazarovici,Marco Merlini) got clues that the deceased female was a high-revered in comunity and has a high social position and was a priestess,wich performed religious rituals.
The “Proto-Ionians” first appear in the work of Ernst Curtius (1887), who believed that the Attic-Ionic dialect group was due to an “Ionicization” of Attica by immigration from Ionia in historical times. Curtius hypothesized that there had been a “Proto-Ionian” migration from the Balkans to western Anatolia in the same period that brought the Arcadic dialect (the successor of the Mycenean Greek stage yet undiscovered in the time of Curtius) to mainland Greece.[2] Curtius’ hypothesis was endorsed by George Hempl in 1920.[3] Hempl preferred to call these hypothetical, early Anatolian Greeks “Javonians”. Hempl attempted to defend a reading of Hittite cuneiform as Greek, in spite of the establishment of the Hittite language as a separate branch of Indo-European by Hrozný in 1917…………………………..The tripartite theory was revived by amateur linguist Jean Faucounau. In his view, the first Greek settlers in their historical territory were the (Pelasgic) “proto-Ionians”, who were separated around 3000 BC from both the proto-Dorians and the proto-Mycenaeans. Faucounau traces this three-wave model to similar views put forward by Paul Kretschmer in the 1890s and the 1900s (i.e., before the decipherment of Linear B), with a modification: the (proto-Ionic) First wave came by sea, the “Proto-Ionians” settling first in the Cycladic Islands, then in Euboea and Attica. The last two waves are the generally accepted arrival of the Mycenaean Greeks (the linguistic predecessors of the Arcadocypriot speakers) in around 1700 BC and the Dorian invasion around 1100 BC. …………….Faucounau’s addition to this is the argument that Crete is also too far south, that the names of the constellations are (Ionic) Greek, not Minoan, and therefore that the constellation makers must be the proto-Ionians in the Cyclades.[13] The south coast of Crete follows 35°N latitude; Syros, which he identifies as a center of proto-Ionian civilization,[14] is at 37°20′.[15] On this basis, he identifies the proto-Ionians with the archaeological Early Cycladic II culture: after all, they made round “frying pans,” and one of them with an incised spiral, and the Phaistos Disc is round with an incised spiral.[16]
His third argument depends on Herodotus’s somewhat obscure use of the word Pelasgian for various peoples, Greek-speaking and otherwise, around the Aegean basin. Faucounau claims that the word, which he derives idiosyncratically from πελαγος, “sea”,[17] means the descendants of the proto-Ionians. Some of them lost their language because they settled among foreigners; others, such as the Athenians, preserved their language – Attic, apparently, arises from a mixture of proto-Ionian and other dialects. He does not explain why Homer speaks of Dodona, inland in north-western Greece, as Pelasgian (Il, 16,233); nor why no place in historic Ionia is called Pelasgian.

So now let’s draw a circle around Greece, Western Anatolia, Cyprus, Crete and the Aegean islands. We then start to see the linguistic pattern that I’m getting at. An entire language family forgotten in the mists of time and modern-day mystery mongering. What’s somewhat irritating to me and which should be irritating to you, the reader, is how we have an ‘Etruscan mystery’, a ‘Minoan mystery’, an ‘Eteo-Cretan mystery’ and an ‘Eteo-Cypriot mystery’ going on at the same time. If you research any one of these subjects, you’ll get next to nothing on their languages or their translations. It’s all “Who knows?” and “What if?”. Why is this region and this time period such a freakin’ mystery? Is it really because we lack information to piece it all together or is it because our power of concentration lacks get-up-and-go to solve problems without the use of a computer crutch?
Anyways, this is what I mean by “Proto-Aegean”. It sits there before you readers, waiting to be developed further.

Click to access Chadwick%20%20Baumbach%201963%20-%20The%20Mycenaean%20Greek%20Vocabulary.pdf

Hpa e-ra PY Tn 316; female recipient of offerings, coupled with Zeus: dat. Hêrâi [Docs. 126, 289; Heubeck, IP 66. 223]. Note 1 : e-ra at KN is a place-name. Note 2: This spelling eliminates the proposed etymology from *”Hqfa; see Frisk, GEW. Discussion of the name : Schroder, Gymnasium 63. 67 ; van Windekens, Glotta 36. 309 ff.

The cult of the dead in central Greece during the Mycenaean period
Gallou, Chrysanthi (2003) The cult of the dead in central Greece during the Mycenaean period. PhD thesis, University of Nottingham.
The identification of any given symbol or symbolic system should be classified in terms of human action and behaviour at a religious and/or funerary level, with reference to the context of occurrence.Given the problem of divergence in interpretation, a more reliable reading should be dictated by a morphological, syntactic and contextual analysis, and the awareness of the extent to which the interpreter’s preconceptions on the matter are introduced to the examination of past symbolism. Contextual, morphological and syntactic analysis of the symbolic element or system followed by cross-examination, cross-referencing and criticism of the hermeneutic model will underwrite to a significant degree the reliability of the interpretation.
Me: so signs are close-related to one specific concrete situation composed,it is a sum of unique concrete elements
xupoç ku-ro2 KNU0478, PY Ea 814 (dat.); gen. ku-ro2-jo KN B 822; MN: prob. Kurios [Docs. 420].TartRound

TARTARIA ROUND TABLET. Sumerian approach.1

April 2, 2018


                      TARTARIA ROUND TABLET Not 100% sumerian signs !


Tablet replica made by myself:


Some days before I revised/overhauled the “sumerian aproach” of the tablet signs.(To be noticed, before I made three ways/kind of aproaches for every sign in the tablet:     icons & logograms                                                                                                                       2. as logograms,and                                                                                                                syllabograms&letters)

My surprise was that all the signs were found in proto-cuneiform sumerian signs list.
From technical point of view, my opinion is that upon the signs seems not to be scrachted or drawn by an native sumerian. One know they used round sticks/styluses, and at least made numbers even in prot-writing phase by imprinting.Only the rest of the signs were made by scratching. Here we have not much the case, all the signs are scratched.

Out of a rude approach, is not my intention to read and interpret exactly the signs and message, cause:

– “If” could be sumerian signs the difficulty is great especially due the fact that we have pre-cuneiform an single sign had multiple meanings.It seems that they extracted the close meaning as resulting from the context. Consequently, the meaning/message in proto-writing=proto-cuneiform stage, could not be exactly determined,
– I have no necessary level of expertise, as Damerow,J.Dahl, R.Englund, A.A.Vaiman and al.

When I get close to those tablets some 10 years before I was strucked by the close ressemblance to letters.
Out of some 2 max.3 signs wich was very difficult to be included, the tablets could be read in every of three writing systems :                                                                                         1. sumerian                                                                                                                                           2. Linear A,B                                                                                                                                             3.archaic greek alphabets

From those 3 signs I give twoo exemple:
–  1.bow-arrow sign and 2. “>>” sign for archaic greek reading ; 3.D shape signs(those signs were used much intensevely in carian, not to mention that there are equal chances to be written by carians ;
When I counted the signs carian won upon archaic greek… but carian signs were taken from greeks! So upon the expected age of the tablets,not sufficent old)


From The Invention of Writing :: Proto-Cuneiform in the Uruk Period                           Posted on MAY 25, 2019 Written by

Proto-Cuneiform Picture-Writing ::  First Attempts At Writing

<< Around halfway through the Uruk Period, about 150 years into the Late Uruk Period which spans from about 3500-3100 BCE (bringing us to about 3350 BCE) is when we begin to see the first examples of writing. The Sumerians first attempts were all pictographic in nature. Meaning that when they first attempted to record ideas and concepts in a physical symbolic fashion, they began to do so by drawing pictures of the things that they were attempting to represent.

Their medium of choice was clay, which they would fashion into small rectangles (which were shaped somewhat like little pillows) which the accountant-scribe would scratch the glyphs into with the stalk of a reed which had been cut down to the right size. That was all the stylus they needed. Though in a couple of centuries they would eventually sharpen one end of the reed into a triangular shape for a more precise “sketching-edge” which in actuality was destined to revolutionize the whole nature of the script. >>

So we have all the signs on Tartaria tablets scratched (as does sumerians in that early stage) , no one imprinted as used sumerians for proto-cuneiform numbers !

<< Proto-Cuneiform Number Systems

For example, if you look right you will see that a small circular impression meant “10” while a conical impression stood for “1”.>>

Proto-Cuneiform Sexagesimal Number Signs                                                                                               They scraped the cereal/bread sign “ninda” (lowest, middle near the head sign)

 but not numerals/numbers !

See imprinted numerals “1′ in proto-cuneiform stage !                                                 From The Tower of Babel Cuneiform in the Fertile Crescent, 3100-500 BCE


**********************************                                                                                                  Ooops!                                                                                                                                                Some fellows encountered same difficultyies with D-shape signs, but even when choosed to equate D-signs with moon , not continued and in the rest is quite out of matter.                                                                                                                                                                         From
So now, the hardest part. What are these D and O shaped signs. Even though they look like Latin letters, we don’t really see them in Linear scripts. EXCEPT in their measuring system.                                                                                                                                                   In some texts I read on the Tărtăria tablets sign “D” is represented as a symbol of the moon. It is interesting to see that in Linear B it represents volume, possibly given on a monthly bases. The second thing that is important to mention is that other signs represented in the lower part of the picture mean units of measurement. At the same time have phonetic value. (ie PE, ZE, MO…) So it is safe to say that if our D  sign was really a unit of measurement, it also had a phonetic value. If so, what could it be? I believe it could be MO, even though MO is already a value of a different sign on a picture above.”
At the first glance one take notice of the cross division of the tablet or equal-cross drawn lines.
There are many opinions regarding the cross sign origin and supposed attached meaning in the course of the history.
For exemple the very begining, out of some paleolithic carvings, sumerians used very early round tokens with cross inscribed wich they used to record and mean sheep.



UDU~b sheep/  From

MAS also has a cross shape MAS:”many”? From

                                                                                                                                         From Sumerian Lexicon de JA HALLORAN –                                                                                                                                    máš: n., extispicy (divination based on the entrails of a sacrificed animal); sacrificial animal [MAŠ2.

A Descriptive Grammar of Sumerian – IS MU       de JW White  ….. the noun maš or máš ‘kid‘ 

From                                                           It is the sign “LU”:”to be abundant”
Tokens and Writing: the Cognitive Development Denise Schmandt Besserat

But the cross was also the sun-god icon

From : (“the Sun tablet”)

Cause of the sun-cross relation the round Tartaria tablet was nicknamed:” Tablita-Soare”(rom.) “THE SUN TABLET”
This cross was found also in Egypt related to Osiris and ressurection.
The Sun, resurection and its related icon and cross icon were before and at the origin of christian religion.


First will begin with lower-right quarter.                                                                                        ( OVERALL DIRECTION OF READING,COUNTER-CLOCKWISE ! )                                      Picture of the quarter,taken from Moonlight in Romania: The Tărtăria Tablets /Keith Massey


See the red sign Tart RED  or here, No.6:


For me this shape is conducting me to the idea of kind of portable altar with flames on upper side:

Note. Many other researcher have same opinion !

But in fact the sign is SZA


Another researcher (Andi Kaulins) found also SA,                          —————————————————————————————————                                      The second sign near-by on the right side seems to be the icon of a sky-deity
Somebody article (to be checked!)

The Symbol of Shamash
”Given that the 1st Century Romans had inexplicably re-launched the Persian cult of Mithras, a ‘sun-god’ whose ritual practices had much in common with Early Christianity, then it may be equally possible that this coin carries forward the very ancient tradition of the Mesopotamian winged disc.  However, I would question the bland assumption that all these symbols represent the Sun.
For instance, the shrine at Larsa devoted to the ‘sun-god’ Utu/Shamash is represented by quite different symbolism, that of ‘the crescent-with-sun-disc on top of an altar or tower temple with water at its base’  (4).  This symbol includes two stars above the upturned crescent.  The Egyptologist David Rohl notes that these depictions were often rotated to become more recognisable cuneiform symbols.

Thus, if we rotate this Shamash’s early symbol from Larsa 180 degrees, we obtain a disc within a crescent, accompanied by two stars.  We seem to have the archetypal Mesopotamian and ancient Egyptian winged disc, complete with its two uraei.  These uraei are two ‘divine cobras’ that are often shown as smaller discs attached to the central disc by two wavy lines.  All of these symbols, then, appear to have a common framework, and this is in keeping with the Roman coin.”

But when checked.…great pleasing surprise”:
A Companion to Greek Mythology
Ken Dowden, ‎Niall Livingstone -Thus, the Akkadian Nergal (god of the Underworld) may have been viewed as meaning ‘Lord of the Great City (Sumerian EN.URU.GAL).14 The Ugaritic Mot was king of this subterranean city: … (KTU 1.5 ii 13–16) This ‘concave kingdom’ is described in words which parodied the mountain dwelling of Baal, king of the gods.
Name Cuneiform Additional information Source
(den-uru2) Retinue of Šamaš RlA2/p40


En [En]  close to priest-lord

This stands for – divine name + the sign UNU – . What is interesting to note is that these geographical names, for example UD+UNU (Larsa), or SHESH+UNU (Ur), seem to be direct adaptions of the Early protoliterate City Seals. This becomes clearer still when we note the cuneiform sign UNU, a part of the geographical names, (when flipped vertical) appears to be a direct adaption from the ‘base’ or ‘stand’ in the seals. It symbolises the abode of the deity, so UD+UNU, is the home of the Sun god, and the UNU is a part of his temple or ziggurat. And here we see the ePSD entry for unu as dwelling:

Read more:
This stands for – divine name + the sign UNU – . What is interesting to note is that these geographical names, for example UD+UNU (Larsa), or SHESH+UNU (Ur), seem to be direct adaptions of the Early protoliterate City Seals. This becomes clearer still when we note the cuneiform sign UNU, a part of the geographical names, (when flipped vertical) appears to be a direct adaption from the ‘base’ or ‘stand’ in the seals. It symbolises the abode of the deity, so UD+UNU, is the home of the Sun god, and the UNU is a part of his temple or ziggurat. And here we see the ePSD entry for unu as dwelling:

“unu [DWELLING] (1511x: Lagash II, Ur III, Old Babylonian) wr. unu6; unu2; unu “banquet; dining hall; the most sacred part of a temple; seat, throne; dwelling, domicile, abode; temple” Akk. mākalû; mūšabu; usukku; šubtu”

Any case, it is the sign of an astral god/goddess, like Astarte,Tanit or minoan-micenaean Asasara.                                                                                                                   Image from



  . From a linguistic point of view, Nikolas Platon has suggested that the root a-sa-sa-ra may well be compared to the Phoenician divine name Asherat.46 In line with this suggestion, Jan Best—who for the divine name also pointed to Asherah from the Old Testa- ment—explained the enclitic element -me or -ma as a particle com- parable to Ugaritic -m as in balm “oh Baal!” and ilm “oh Il!”. ………………………..

       As it seems, then, both the divine name and the grammatical features of the Linear A formula (y) or ya-sa-sa-ra-ma oh Asherah!” are Old Phoenician. A similar conclusion no doubt holds good for its hiero- glyphic predecessor from the Early Minoan III/Middle Minoan I tran- sitional period (c. 2000 BC), now readable as a-sa1-sa1-ra-me or a- “Oh Asherah!” (the case with the punctuation mark in form of a hook concerns # 252 as depicted in Fig. 6a, no. I)…………………………                                                     Cretan hieroglyphic 30 of Asherah served as an asylum for international trade. More in general, the zealous veneration of the goddess may be compared to the predilection of the miners in Sinai for Baaalat of which their inscriptions in the Proto-Sinaitic alphabet, variously dated c. 1850 BC, c. 1600 BC or c. 1500 BC, bear testimony.

SO, IT IS SURE, MY SUPOSITION THAT THE SIGN IS THAT OF A CELESTIAL FEMALE DEITY as Baaalat / ASHERAH / Tanit (wich in turn, or beside it is related to mining and trade) IS RIGHT !! More than this, the tablets could be brought by a metalurgist,prospector,trader? from the south-east !





Upper sign, +++++ If we think in Old Danubian script terms,

Din The Number System of the Old European Script Eric Lewin Altschuler, M.D., Ph.D.

“Also common is the comb motif (Table 1) with three to eight teeth 33 inscriptions. As the comb motif is used with so many different numbers of teeth and as the comb inscriptions seem to be used in a similar manner, and are found in similar places on pottery as the score mark inscriptions, we think these signs also denote numbers. We translate a comb with n (3 ≤ n ≤ 8) teeth as 10+n. Other possibilities are the numbers or n+1 (n teeth plus the horizontal stroke), but these seem unlikely as there are already signs for n and n+1 (n or n+1 score marks).”

Deci 10+5=15 sau 5 (5+1/2=5,5?)

La sumerieni, din signs ASZ2

In sumerian, the name of some numerals are : From


So if our sign has 5-6 comb teeth, this sign could mean phoneme or6

From AsHur/All-seeing-one

5 mai 2000 – Inspiration for all this came out of not being able to find a Sumerian …… [191x] = 1 (“1” one numeric) | dili [227x] = (to be) singleunique, sole; …
From aš: one; unique; alone.              Folowing image, from

My rendering for the <5-teeth comb-like sign> is:   AS : “WHEAT”                                                   —————————————————————————————                                                     First of those “DD” (twoo D-shaped signs in the row), if is sumerian-inspired, one close  in shape, could be:


D D, (?Reduplicated :”GAR GAR”= “to place, lay down….” ?)
120FB  GAR, NINDA [11296x] = bread, pastry, baked, food – determinative &ninda; bread / baked items | cf. less common12252  NINDA2 | gar(gar) [2505x] = place, to put, lay down; to give in place of something, replace; to posit (math.) | nig2(nig2) [1641x] = thing, possesion; something | nindan

From TĂRTĂRIa AND THE SACRED TABLETS XC. Investigating the signs on the circular tablet                                                                                                                                                              “The crescent moon is visible in the shape of a celestial D 1522. The variant is not recorded in the inventory of the signs of the Danube script.
It is very similar to the shape individuated by Gh.  Lazarovici with code 238f, meaning ‘fi
rst quarter of the moon’. The same sign was utilized to render the first crescent in a lunar cycle engraved on a stone around the second part of IV millennium BC
at Knowth (Boyne Valley, Ireland) 1523. The graphic concept is similar to that at the base of the ancient form of the Chinese character Yue4, meaning
’moon’. In the beginning, the pictograph was a new moon hanging in the sky. Gradually, a vertical stroke was added inside. I also assume the (sign image) as a symbol for the ‘fi
rst quarter of the moon’.The (sign image) finds partial graphic convergence with the sign 187 of the Indus script:1524 and in the ATU528 from the proto-cuneiform:(sign image)
The aforementioned sign D, which follows the, is registered in the inventory of the Danube script as DS 033.0, as previously analyzed “
Note Yes, could be “first qarter of the moon” but where’s the sign in proto-cuneiform sign lists? (Borger,Falkenstein,Yariz)

No, the first sign aforementioned by Mr. Merlini ATU528 (wich has 2 paralel strokes inside), is not as close to the real sign as the proto-cuneiform sign I’ve found:                         Much close to sign SUR (wich has an “L”-shaped sign inside!) :                                         From

de JA Halloran

…. šursur: to rain; to produce a liquid; to flow, drip; to extract seed oil; to process wine …


My rendering for the first “D”-like sign is : SUR                                                                              ——————————————————————                                                                                  The next, 2-nd D cannot be found as such in proto-cuneiform UCLA sign-list. I found exactly the D-sign in Falkenstei proto-cuneiform sign list, as No.527 .There has no name, nor meaning indication.

Mr. Marco Merlini’s opinion: TĂRTĂRIa AND THE SACRED TABLETS XC. Investigating the signs on the circular tablet page 320:                                                                                                             “The D shape incised on the tablet from Tărtăria has convergences in the sign lists of many ancient systems of writing. We have mentioned some of them when discussing the D on the left quadrant. We have here to add that proto-cuneiform presents two kinds of D. We have already mentioned the rounded form D (ATU 709) when discussing this sign with a tail from the upper left quadrant. The sharp incised on the upper right quadrant finds graphic parallels with ATU 527. As substantiated in the next chapter, if the D is a lunar symbol in several early systems of writing and in rock art, at Tărtăria it stands for the Full Moon as the best suitable moment for human fecundation. So I suppose to be MOON ?

From Mesopotamian moon god. He was called Nanna in Sumerian, and Su’en or Sin in Akkadian.                                                                                                                                            My note:                                                                                                                                         There were any Akkadians in the proto-cuneiform time, but the language could be connected to akkadian and semitic.                                                                                                  ————————————————————                                                                                     Folowing, two O-s: “O O”, or “oc”

From CRYPTCRACKER                                                                                                                        the circle (with or without a central dot) was the standard form in the Iron Age, eventually becoming the letter O (a vowel, no longer a consonant) in the Greek and Roman alphabets. In the syllabary (by my calculations) the circle is the sun (shimshu, hence SHI)” 

They say:

The Sumerian sign (Jaritz #750) means ‘hole’, and reads both u, ‘(oral) cavity’, and hu3.

The sign O is  proto-cuneiform LAGAB From

lagaba LAGAB:”watercourse” LAGAB:”circle,hole“. But twoo circles 2xLAGAB, is the sign NIGIN


Nigin, “to encircle” ,”roam about”       V12.COMPARATIVE ENCYCLOPEDIC DICTIONARY OF MESOPOTAMIAN VOCABULARY …      NiginSumerian. Verb. To round up. NiginSumerian. Verb. To include. NiginSumerian. Verb. To bring in. NiginSumerian. Verb. To confine

Nigin/Wander/(to)                                                                                                                         From V12.COMPARATIVE ENCYCLOPEDIC DICTIONARY OF MESOPOTAMIAN VOCABULARY …                               Nierime (Nierim): Sumerian. Adjective. Wrong … Total. NiginSumerian. Noun. Totality. NiginSumerian. Adverb. All together. Nigin: … The whole amount. Nigin: .

So…. hard to say….I am tempted to exclude from the begining to be an administrative tablet, as to have here simple numbers. Based on three assumptions:                                      1. sumerians made numbers by imprinting, not by scratching                                             2.scientists said that the tablets could be involved in a kind of religious ritual           reason in this case (numbers) to cover (as M.Merlini supposed) upper half of the tablet wich contain an supposed esoteric content.. 

So, maybe:                                                                                                                                             A.               AS                                                                                                                                         ……….GAR-GAR NIGIN                                                                                                                              One(God)….(to)Place,confine   enclosure                                                                                       —————————————————–                                                                                               B.                AS                                                                                                                                        SUR  Moon Nigin  :”one(god)                                                                                               “rain,flow,river  ..MOON(God)…enclosure,total,whole”

(? As-sur:” one warrior encircle,wander,surround”?)                                                                   ——————————————————-                                                                                              C. What about a rendering wich partly satisfy Mr,Merlini rendering and mine?:               …………GOD                                                                                                                                                   SUR    MOON  FULL                                                                                                                      ………….GOD                                                                                                                                              CARRY  FULL  MOON                                                                                                                           —————————————————–                                                                                                D.               AS                                                                                                                                        GAR   DIS   LAGAB LAGAB                                                                                                               See number 10, from

                                                                                                      WHEAT                                                                                                                      NINDA(ratio,cereal,bread)   10   10                                                                                             “21 WHEAT RATIOS (more…)


April 2, 2018

(Possible same name was also a GOD)

Our oriental-induced “Gebeleisis”

Gibil or Gebal the god of fire in Sumerian mythology, The God of …;
Gibil or Gebal the god of fire in Sumerian mythology, The God of Byblos the progeny of Hiram Abi, The heart of Freemasonry’s abominable roots and found in Psalms 83 as those …. Mountain gods were known in Anatolia, Syria, and Palestine since Hittite times, and they continued to be venerated up until the Roman age.
Me:ais,asa is anatolian &italic for “altar”
Ais,aisna is etruscan “God,

Mount Sinai – Wikipedia

Mount Sinai also known as Mount Horeb or Gabal Musa, is a mountain in the Sinai Peninsula of Egypt that is a possible location of the biblical Mount Sinai, which is considered a holy site by the Abrahamic religions. Mount Sinai is mentioned many times in the Book of Exodus and other books of the Bible, and the Quran.

 Jebel Barkal or Gebel Barkal (Arabic: جبل بركل ) is a very small mountain located some 400 km north of Khartoum, in

Lycian KUGA:”Grandfather

The Luwian Population Groups of Lycia and Cilicia Aspera During the …
Philo Hendrik Jan Houwink Ten Cate – 1961 – ‎Cilicia
The same development must have taken place in Lycian kuga- “grandfather” alongside Hittite- Luwian huh{h)a- while tedi- “father” as compared with Luwian tati-

The sanctuary of Adad at Zabban? A fragment of a temple list in …

Click to access ZabbanTL.pdf

Zabban, a town in what was formerly Simurrum, on the borders between Babylonian and Assyria, remained in the first millennium a well-known cult-centre of Adad, for which the evidence is now collected by Daniel Schwemer (2000: 610). There is no doubt that the Assyrian temple list intends the Lord of Zabban to be understood as the storm god.
[E-]-kuga the temple of Sala;
House whose fearsomeness
House wich is pure among the mountains
Me!What is this? Simurrum<>romanian city Simeria,near Deva
In c. 1801 BC, the powerful kingdom of Elam, which straddled important trade routes across the Zagros Mountains, invaded the Mesopotamian plain. With allies among the plain states, Elam attacked and destroyed the kingdom of Eshnunna, destroying a number of cities and imposing its rule on portions of the plain for the first time.
My note: these elamites,ancestor of sanskrit /Indo-European language

Click to access 2254.pdf

On his accession he married Ne-maat-Hap, the heiress of the previous king, and assumed the name of Khasekhemui. After a reign of nineteen years he was buried at Abydos, near the tombs of the first dynasty kings, and in his grave was found the gold object, referred to in a previous chapter, which appears to have been of metal derived from Transylvania. This tomb chamber was built of squared blocks of limestone, the earliest stonework of the kind as yet found in Egypt………………………..Whence the Cretans obtained their gold is uncertain, for there are no deposits on the island, though the metal was at a later date found near Sardes in Asia Minor. It is well, however, to remember the fragments of gold in the tomb of Khasekhemui, which are thought to have come from Transylvania. If they Early Minoan Times 105 came from so distant a source they may well have been taken to Egypt by Cretan mariners………………Not far from Vinca is a cinnabar mine. Tordos is in the very centre of a region where lie the richest deposits’of gold now worked in Europe, deposits whence much precious metal was obtained during the time of the Roman Empire. Near other sites there are copper mines. It is probable that the First Danubian people, when first they entered the Danube basin, were well acquainted with metal and knew how to work it, though it would appear that the colonists who wandered to the north-west soon lost that knowledge. It would seem likely that the gold found in the tomb of Khasekhemui, king of Egypt, to which reference has already been made in Chapters I and IV, came from the Maros valley and from near Tordos, so that it is clear that gold was being mined in Transylvania at a date which cannot be later than 3000 B. c., the date that we have accepted for the Egyptian monarch. If our Danubians were good sailors, as Childe has suggested, they would have had no difficulty in carrying this commodity to Crete, if not to Egypt itself

Was Eridu The First City in Sumerian Mythology? | Peeter Espak … latter seems to be created or constructed by the “primordial” god Lugaldu- kuga—the “king of the holy mountain.” The line in question may also be interpreted to mean that Lugaldukuga started residing in the holy mound. Lambert hypothesises that Lugaldukuga must be the name of 34 Sjöberg 1969: 17–18. 35 Frayne …

rib eye – English-Yoruba Dictionary
Cuneiform (kuniforimu) :: Yet one still would have to show that this Egyptian creation was transferred to Mesopotamia and that the Sumerian protocuneiform and … Cougar (Kuga) :: Borrowing a method used to study human demographics he and his colleagues took samples from 352 cougars in the RockyMountain region …

PDF]Was Eridu The First City in Sumerian Mythology?1 – ResearchGate…/Was-Eridu-The-First-City-in-Sumerian-Mythology.pd&#8230;
“the most ancient city” in Sumero-Akkadian mythology, this under- standing has a strong influence on our entire picture of ….. for other Sumero-Akkadian shrines, as the text on the Gudea Statue B demonstrates (iv 7–9): é dnin-g̃ír-su-ka …. kuga—the “king of the holy mountain.” …….Lambert hypothesises that Lugaldukuga must be the name of the god Ea.38 …
The Archaeomusicology of the Ancient Near East
Richard J. Dumbrill – 2005 – ‎History
From the reverse of I (I col. 5) we shall assume from the few words remaining that they are religious songs of which we cannot say more than they are called: sllllt-[ru s’a eb-bu-be]. At rev. II (col. 6) our reading continues with diverse types of songs: a) s’jr ku-gu-u (l. 5), Akkadian rendition of Sumerian sirkuga, meaning ‘sacred song”…

F]Gendered literacy and numeracy in the Sumerian literary … – CiteSeerX…by E Robson – ‎
often in connection with mul ‘stars’, an ‘heaven’, kug’holy‘, and/or gun3.

Sumerian Cuneiform English Dictionary 12013CT – bulgari-istoria…/Sumerian_Cuneiform_English_Dictionary_12.pdf
 kug-ga-na = pure [121AC KUG pure + 120B5 suckling, carry + 1223E NA man, pestle, pounder].

The Sumerian Paradise Tilmun as Saivite Tillai – Google Groups!topic/mintamil/vCQ2eUNLdhI
The descriptive terms kug-ga( koGku) and dadag-ga , idu tangam: purified Gold is

ELEMENTARY SUMERIAN GLOSSARY/част 4/ | Новини … › Новини › История
. kù(g) (kug) – to be sacred, holy; to sanctify – посветем, свещен; освещавам. kù(g) holy, sacred; …
URU.KUG.GA                           “The sacred town” (uruKU3.GI  = “the town of gold”).

Then,out of Strabon,                                                                 Apare la autorii moderni și în forma eronată de Kogaion.
„…καὶ τὸ ὄρος ὑπελήφθη ἱόερν , καὶ προσαγορεύουσιν οὕτως· ὄνομα δ᾿αὐτῷ Κωγαίονον ὁμώνυμον τῷ παραρρέοντι ποταμῷ.”
„…și muntele a fost luat [de către Geți] drept sfânt, și ei îl și numesc astfel; iar numele lui este Kōgaionon, la fel cu cel al râului care curge pe alături.”

Not only a mount but it seems also a deity.
We have three path of reasoning:
KOGaionon as in Mysaion,Heraion, :”the place/temple (of) Mysa/arts,Hera,etc.
Temple,place/AION,ION(ancestral father,god-like depicted as related to Kronos and with pick-axe in hand)

In greek ion:”moving” aion:”still” aionon:”eternity

Why Can’t Aionas Ton Aionon Mean Eternity? – Tentmaker Ministries
The Greek phrase “aionas ton aionon,” which is translated “forever and ever,” occurs 18 times in the Greek New Testament. In 17 of them, the phrase means without end, extending into infinity. In Rev. 19:3, the phrase is used to describe the destruction of the great whore of Babylon (Rev. 17:1,4) whose smoke ascends …

I allready shown that kuga could be equated as Giga.                                                      Remember Anatolian ruller GUGU,and related mythology to GYGantes.                             In Romania we have GOGeanu mountain range and peak GUGU.Also GOG and Magog.                                                                            GUG/GOG is PIE-root for humpback(rom.geb,gab), mound, swelling.The same way as Gebel/Gebal is.
(Humpback usually associeted to old-ones)

Sum. kug ‘pure; bright, shining, silver’, gug ‘(to be) bright’, PIE *k’u-k-,

Sum.kug,kug-ga ;kug-ga-na                                                                                                            gug >>Anatolian GUG,GUGA,GYGES,HUHA,lyc.KUGA>PIE kuk; perhaps retained original aspect “pure,bright”wich was applied directly to theyr ancestors
(as ancestors were highly respected, “pure,silver-haired”; there is another IE-root GOG/GUG:”swelling” as hills and mounds were sought mythical megalithical gygantic constructions of old-ones, ATLantes,GYGantes,kind of Titans)                                                    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *                                                                                                                    (Same word/notion, in close form “KAGA “was found in an inscription from TOMIS:

Olteanu Sorin, KAGA c si KOGAIONON. Datele … – Isidore
KAGA c si KOGAIONON. Datele problemi / KAGA et KOGAIONON. Données du problème. Par : Sorin Olteanu. Date : 1989 | disponible sur; Mots-clés : CLAUDIUS MUCACIUS (TI.), HEROS THRACE, GETES, POLYTHEISME, PHILOLOGIE et DEDICACE …      ———————————————————————————————————————                 Now explain me some names from Romania:                                                                       towns :Simeria,Deva,Cugir   <> Shumeru,Deva,Kiengir                                                                 mountains: Gogeanu,Surianu, peaks Gugu,Suru,Peleaga <>Gog-an,gog-anu;Suri-an/anu;Gug/Gog;Surya;Pelegus                                                                                                       On the origins of extractive metallurgy: new evidence from Europe…/On%20the%20origins%20of%20extractive%20metallurg&#8230; by M Radivojevic –                                                                                                        Copper mineral use in the Balkans emerged with the early  Neolithic cultures; mostly for malachite bead making, although two metal artefacts, a double-pointed copper awl (Vlassa, 1969: 514) and a copper fish hook (Lazarovici, 1970: 477) are reported in settlements in Transylvania and the Danube GorgesVinca groups

Supp Info Manuscript ID CONNET-2017-005 … – Cambridge Repository…/Supp%20Info%20Manuscript%20ID%20CONNE…by M Radivojevic                                                                                                           Period 2. Late Neolithic (LN, 5500-5000 BC). This period is linked with the emergence of archaeological cultures that would grow into large metal producing and consuming phenomena (like.Vinča in Serbia or Karanovo in Bulgaria) during the 5th millennium BC [27]. While Vinča culture occupied most of the central Balkans …

From Prehistory of Transylvania – Wikipedia

 The Developed Neolithic is marked by the migration of some new groups of populations, whose point of departure was the south of the Balkan Peninsula, as part of the group of cultures with polished black pottery. These same groups created the Vinča culture (more commonly divided into four main phases: A, B, C and D),
 Sinclair Hood suggested that Sumerian prospectors had been drawn by the gold-bearing deposits in the Transylvanian region, resulting in these off-shoot cultures. But if the carbon dating results were correct, then Tartaria was 4000 BC, which meant that the Vinca Culture was older than Sumer, orSumer was at least a .

 Perhaps prospectors trained in Asiatic traditions had begun working the copper of Transylvania, Slovakia, and the Eastern Alps, and even the tin …… 4 but just as well in the EarlySumerian metal-work of Ur. for the type is In Anatolia, gold specimens occur in the Royal comparatively Tombs of Alaca, 6 at …