Archive for the ‘Linguistics’ Category

Anlaşılması kolay: Göbeklitepe sütunları aslında neydi?

March 27, 2021

Scientists hypothesized that at 9.600 B.C. were not worshiped antropomorphic deities, but probably spirits. Ancestor spirits or otherwise. As a term of comparison, despite the enormous temporal distance, IF WE SUPPOSE THAT – Göblekitepe PEOPLES WERE DISTANT ANCESTORS OF SUMERIANS, AND SOME IMPORTANT ICONS AND THEIR MEANINGS LASTED THOUSEND OF YEARS, we could have had something like that:

PDF) The Transformations of a Goddess: Lillake, Lamashtu, and Lilith.
ResearchGate PDF) The Transformations of a Goddess: Lillake, Lamasht

Merriam-Webster’ın Dünya Dinleri ›booksWendy Doniger, MERRIAM-WEBSTER STAFF, Merriam-Webster, Inc · 1999 · Religion \ la-‘mash-, tu \ (Akadian), Sumerian Dimme, MEZOPOTAMYA dilinde DİN, tüm dişi İBARLAR arasında en korkunç olanı, gökyüzü tanrısı ANU’nun kızı (Sümer: An).

Şimdi Dim-me’den Dim’in ne olduğunu görün: Sümerce İsim (DIM)

direk, direk, direk
bağlama, düğüm, bağ

Ve daha önceki gönderilerden Ben: “ilahi güç / öz” ve “olmak / arı olmak”

Öyleyse, Dim-Me = “PILLAR-İlahi güç / ARI”

============== bir referans terimi olarak ========

Tanrı Dim-Me-ir: ›akış› 527757_djvu “Dil Olarak Sümer” in tam metni – İnternet Arşivi Bu dimir gerçek bir ES’dir. form = daha olağan dimmer (dim-me-ir) ‘tanrı.’ Bkz. S. v. digir ve dir = AN. Cf. Semitik ödünç kelime dimmerU ‘tanrı’.

Not. Dim’in 2 numaralı anlamını genişletmemek için kendimi sınırladım: 2. “bağlama, düğüm, bağ” Romanian: “legare, nod, legătură”

Easy to undersand: What were in fact Göbeklitepe pillars ?

March 27, 2021

Scientists hypothesized that at 9.600 B.C. were not worshiped antropomorphic deities, as “Urfa man”, but probably demons or spirits. › pdfPDF Animals in the symbolic world of Pre-Pottery Neolithic Göbekli … de J PETERS · Neolithic Göbekli Tepe, south -eastern Turkey: a preliminary … <<Given the anthropomorphic nature of the T-shaped pillars at Göbekli Tepe and the fact thatthese abstract monoliths bear representations of particular (sets of) animal species, it is temptingto interpret these megaliths as three-dimensionalrepresentations of shamans. ….. Some of these mono-liths exhibit arms and hands in bas-relief, sugges-ting that they represent anthropomorphic beings.It is not clear, however, what kind of beings thesestanding stones impersonate : do they representanthropomorphic gods, shamans, ancestors, stone spirits or perhaps even demons ? >>

Ancestor spirits or otherwise. As a term of comparison, despite the enormous temporal distance, IF WE SUPPOSE THAT : – Göblekitepe PEOPLES WERE DISTANT ANCESTORS OF SUMERIANS, AND SOME IMPORTANT ICONS AND THEIR MEANINGS LASTED THOUSEND OF YEARS, we could have had something like that:

PDF) The Transformations of a Goddess: Lillake, Lamashtu, and Lilith.

PDF) The Transformations of a Goddess: Lillake, Lamasht

Merriam-Webster’s Encyclopedia of World › booksWendy Doniger, ‎MERRIAM-WEBSTER STAFF, ‎Merriam-Webster, Inc · 1999 · ‎Religion\la-‘mash-,tu\ (Akkadian), Sumerian Dimme, in MESOPOTAMIAN RELIGION, most terrible of all female DEMONSdaughter of the sky god ANU (Sumerian: An), .

Usually scientists like John Halloran try to propose the etimologyes of sumerian words. for Dimmme I found nothing, even oposite: › Kamadme_the… Rezultate de pe web (PDF) Kamadme, the Sumerian Counterpart of the Demon … Wiggermann noted that the name “Dimme” had resisted interpretation, but that the element written ME must be a phonetic indicator

Now see out of Dim-me what is Dim: Sumerian Noun (DIM)

  1. postpillarpole
  2. bindingknotbond

And from posts before, Me:”divine power/essence” and “to be/beeing

So, Dim-Me = “PILLARDivine power/BEEING


Ghosts in Mesopotamian religions – › wiki › Ghosts_in_Mesopotamian_rel… The shades or spirits of the deceased were known as gidim (gidim 𒄇) in Sumerian, which was borrowed as eṭemmu in Akkadian. The Sumerian word is analyzed as a compound of either gig “to be sick” and dim3 “a demon”, or gi6 “black” + dim4 “to approach” › PAPVB_13 › Ha…PDF Sumerian Lexicon – IS MUNI de JA Halloran · Citat de 102 ori — and through bilingual cuneiform dictionaries of Sumerian and … v., to stand upright; to be straight; to be in order; to become … dìm: n., sickness demon; pole of a water lift.

So, Dimme could be also DemonBeing

Despite pillars exhibit arms and hands in bas-relief, sugges-ting that they represent anthropomorphic beings, and we are on the verge of appearing gods. Gods apperead later, after 2.000 years, 7.500 B.C. as you see at Kilisik:

Jens Notroff@jens2go Is it a human? Is it a #Neolithic T-pillar? Is it a composite figure? – No, it’s the Kilisik sculpture (… and thus maybe all of these). “A rather odd figure: The so-called #Kilisik Sculpture from #Adıyaman, #Turkey :



God is Dim-Me-ir: › stream › 527757_djvu Full text of “Sumerian as a Language” – Internet Archive This dimir is a real ES. form = the more usual dimmer (dimme-ir) ‘god.’ See s. v. digir and dir = AN. Cf. the Semitic loanword dimmerU ‘god,’ .

Note. I limited myself not to extend the No.2 meaning of Dim: 2.”binding, knot,bond” Rom. “legare, nod, legătură”but..

Dimme= binding+ divine powers. This seem to be the meaning of a curse, greek katadesmos, when somebody’s fate is bond to an evil state. › pubs › cdlpPDF Elementary Sumerian Glossary – Cuneiform Digital Library Initiative de DA Foxvog · Citat de 15 ori — Pennsylvania Sumerian Dictionary on the. Web. … dím to fashion, form, create, build; to make like, make into (-šč); to act

dimme: to make likebeing / Divine powers (Pillar made like divine power being)

The proto-cuneiform signs for dim are, from

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The proto-cuneiform sign for me is


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ even more documentation ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ › … › Theology Anastas Shuke … the Sumerian terms for God, including AN, diĝir/dingir, dim3-me-er, šar/šaru, il/ilu, where most of them are expressed by the AN sign only. › pdf_31PDF Yet Another Suggestion about the Origins of the Sumerian Language 23 oct. 2013 — Sumerian, the corresponding forms are. {diĝir; dim3-me-er; dim3-me8-er; dim3-mi-ir; di-me2-er} (deity, god, goddess)–5cd0997012062

Reversing dim and me to medim , the rezult is a word with other meanings: › cbd › sux TOC – Oracc emegir [SUMERIAN] N (24x) Old Babylonian wr. eme-gi; eme-gir₁₅ “the Sumerian language” … medim [LIMBS] › … ENGLISH – SUMERIAN DICTIONARY – vasconica ENGLISH – SUMERIAN DICTIONARY · Oct. 29th, 2019 02:20 pm … medim, [BOAT] peszesz, [BOAT] te, [BOAT] tugul, [BOAT] umbin, [BOAT]

++++ From ++++

Ritualistic Bird Symbolism at Gobekli Tepe and its “Ancestor Cult” a Sacred Sky Burial Relationship between Birds and Spirits of the Dead

Myths from several regions’ associate birds with the creation of the world. Sacred ideas of birds range from a creator role, to a symbol of life as well as relating to both death and rebirth. Birds are a common totem or believed spirit and relate to renewal, transformation, and ancestors as well. In this deity, spirit or ancestor role they may be seen as Bird People (people with the characteristics of birds) a common motif in myths. Also, birds are commonly associated with or relate to fertility, longevity, and life itself.

Carved skulls indicate that Gobekli Tepe, known for enigmatic monumental pillars carved with animals and shapes, was ancestor worship site.” 

Ancestor Cult: a ritualistic system of veneration, honor, and propitiation of the spirits of dead ancestors for the purpose of avoiding evil consequences and securing good fortune.”  

Ancestor worship: the custom of venerating deceased ancestors who are considered still a part of the family and whose spirits are believed to have the power to intervene in the affairs of the living.”  

Veneration of the dead, including one’s ancestors, is based on love and respect for the deceased. In some cultures, it is related to beliefs that the dead have a continued existence, and may possess the ability to influence the fortune of the living. Some groups venerate their direct, familial ancestors. In EuropeAsiaOceaniaAfrican and Afro-diasporic cultures, the goal of ancestor veneration is to ensure the ancestors’ continued well-being and positive disposition towards the living, and sometimes to ask for special favors or assistance. The social or non-religious function of ancestor veneration is to cultivate kinship values, such as filial piety, family loyalty, and continuity of the family lineage. Ancestor veneration occurs in societies with every degree of social, political, and technological complexity, and it remains an important component of various religious practices in modern times.”

Ancient Headless Corpses Were Defleshed By Griffon Vultures

Sky burial ( Animal Worship mixed with Ancestor Worship) is a funeral practice where a human corpse is placed on a mountaintop, elevated ground, tree, or constructed perch to decompose while be eaten by scavenging animals, especially birds.

On The Relationship between Birds and Spirits of the Dead ( See On The Relationship between Birds and Spirits of the Dead Christopher Moreman

<<In a wide range of cultures, birds are symbolically connected with death in a number of ways. They are often considered harbingers or omens of imminent death. Some birds are thought to steal souls from people who are dying
or to act as psychopomps, carrying the souls of the dead to the “next world.” As the story above illustrates, there is also the belief that birds might somehow embody spirits of the dead. Ingersoll (1923) noted that the belief in birds as
“visible spirits of the dead” is “almost universal” ….. The symbolism of birds does not always focus on death, for
instance, but just as often relates to fertility, longevity, and life itself. Birds as Bearers of Divine Wisdom Birds as Psychopomps Birds of Life and Death The dual connection of birds with both death and life is common. Vultures, for instance, play a central role in funerary customs involving exposure of the corpse, such as in the Zoroastrian “tower of silence” and “sky burials” of Tibetan
Buddhism. This great carrion-eater is also mixed with the symbolism of life. Pre-Islamic Arabs recognized the vulture for its longevity, a quality it obtained devouring the life-blood of corpses; perhaps embodying deceased ancestors,
they devoured the sacrificial meals made in their names. In Tibetan folklore, through consuming the corpse, vultures are believed to bear the dead away to a transitory place in the sky before rebirth, and they are thought to be the earthly embodiments of the feminine divine principle, dakini. The Egyptian Mother goddess, Mut, is also associated with the vulture. Walker (1983) suggests that the association between motherhood and the vulture stems from a time before humans understood the role of men in the procreative process, believing that consumption of flesh led to the gestation of new life (p. 751). It was once thought that all vultures were female and were impregnated by the wind.In both China and Japan, cranes are said to carry the souls of those who have achieved immortality to heaven. Storks (deliverers of babies in not only European folklore but also that of the Sioux) and cranes are also among those birds most often symbolizing fertility and longevity. Some researchers have suggested that the stork’s migratory pattern indicating the return of spring may account for its association with fertility, but such a suggestion must surely apply to a wide range of birds. Cranes add to the avian migratory pattern a peculiar circular, hopping mating dance that is readily associated with various cycles of nature, including those of the seasons and of life and death. The dance has also been imitated by humans, being “common to rituals enacted in funerary labyrinth and tumuli in many parts of the world. As late as the eighteenth century the Ostiks of Siberia dressed their dancers in the skin of cranes. Birds Embodying Spirits of the Dead. That birds are often believed to actually embody spirits of the dead themselves “is a widespread and extremely ancient belief”. Friend (1883) describes Buddhist rice offerings made to ancestral “house spirits” that are eaten by birds, while similar rites are performed for crows in parts of India. Crooke (1896) describes how, in Northern India, owls and bats might embody “the malevolent dead” (p. 279). The Mongol Buryats of Siberia believe that their loved ones might return in the form of diving birds, and Aztec soldiers returned as hummingbirds. Some Pima Indians believe that at death the soul inhabits the body of an owl; an owl’s hooting portends death as it calls out for a soul to embody (Russell, 1908, p. 252). Similar beliefs can also be found in cultures not normally associated with reincarnation. Henderson says that in flight “the bird is the most fitting symbol of transcendence”, relating it to the spiritual journeys of shaman-types the world over. Experiences interpreted as “spiritual journeys,” “shamanic flight,” or “astral travel” are relatively common among across cultures. Even if not all cultures locate the world of the dead in a heaven, case studies on reports of out-of-body experiences (OBEs) describe, almost universally, the autoscopic witnessing of one’s body from above. It is likely that this phenomenon accounts for what Eliade (1968) termed “shamanic flight”. The noetic quality inherent in such experience can be strong enough to convince the experient of its objectivity despite empirical evidence to the contrary. Certainly, a relatively common human experience of seeming to fly in a non-physical body draws a personal connection to birds.The question of “transcendence” remains, however, as birds ascend while not necessarily transcending. The OBE offers the sense of transcending the confines of one’s body, and if one equates the sense of transcendent spiritual flight in the OBE to the natural flight of birds, then it is but one more turn to suggest that the latter’s flight might also be “transcendent.” To fully appreciate the connection to birds specifically, we must examine all aspects of their symbolism and not rely simply on an incomplete connection between ascension and transcendence. Henderson offers more details regarding the bird’s transcendent significance, explaining: “It represents the peculiar nature of intuition working through a ‘medium,’ that is, an individual who is capable of obtaining knowledge of distant events—or facts of which he consciously knows nothing” (p. 151). As illustrated above, birds are firmly entrenched as divine messengers. Likewise, shamanic flight largely aims to collect information from obscure sources. Flight, more than making a necessary connection to the afterlife, provides easy access to otherwise unattainable locations, and an elevated vantage point provides a definite informational advantage. Birds emblematize access to locations and knowledge that is difficult if not impossible for humans to access—the mystery of death fits this description. I contend that this last uncertainty is, in fact, the most profound one for all humankind. That birds can know the unknowable might account for the first of the three associations to death described above. If their flight allows them access to information from the unknown worlds, their access to these worlds might lead to the thought that they could bear souls away to these places. Neither the OBE nor the shaman’s flight involves being carried by a bird, however, so the connection remains symbolic. To make the leap of assuming that the soul becomes a bird, one must accept it only as a metaphor for the soul’s own ability to fly, or perhaps the sense that one has a soul that can. On the Symbolic Connection between Birds and Life
A final area of central importance is birds’ connection to birth, fertility, and life more generally. It is exactly this connection that best illuminates the birddeath archetype. Migratory birds are associated with the cycle of seasons. Sometimes they are lamented for causing the winter, as with the Swiss wax-wing above, but more often they are celebrated as bringers of the spring, as with storks, herons, or cuckoos (who so regulated the seasons that they’ve become ubiquitous timekeepers). Migratory patterns, like other naturalistic explanations, cannot explain everything, however, as not all birds have seasonal migrations. The vibrancy of some birds’ colors, the forcefulness of their songs, and the swiftness of their flights are all strongly suggestive of life’s vim and vigor.The greatest sign of birds’ generative character, however, is their eggs. Eggs are often central to creation myths the world over (Leeming, 2010, pp. 313-314). The Egyptian god, Seb, laid an egg that produced the sun; the Indian and Chinese creator-gods (Brahma and P’an lu, respectively) were born from cosmic eggs; and the African Dogon describe how Amma, the creator god, fertilized himself in the form of a great egg. Eggs are also widely considered aphrodisiacs. By extension, birds also influence the language of sex and fertility with various bird-related words sharing a sexual double-meaning across cultures. Birds clearly exemplify the vibrancy of life in many ways, but it remains to be explained why they also share an association with death.The practically universal associations between birds and both life and death stem from a deep-rooted human tendency to deny personal mortality. I do not mean to imply here that the woman with whom I began this paper was engaged in some form of willful self-deception about the death of her father; she was quite aware that her father had died and that the bird was not physically him. Despite this knowledge, however, she (in line with the long global tradition of associating birds with the dead) also felt that the bird was the person. >> Ritualistic Bird Symbolism at Gobekli Tepe and its “Ancestor Cult”  Bird People?

Ce semnificau perechile de stalpi centrali din incintele de la Gobeklitepe ?

March 21, 2021

Dupa cate am putut vedea, se pare ca nici-un cercetator din zecile care au atacat problema, nu s-a putut pronunta de o maniera clara si hotarata. Adica sa spuna clar ce reprezentau pentru locuitorii de la Gobeklitepe.Pentru ca la vechimea si perioada in care au fost construite parerea generala este ca nu aparusera inca zeitati antropomorfe. Cu totul alta ar putea fi situatia doar 600 de ani mai tarziu, (datata circa 9000 BC) cu “Omul din Urfa”. Acela chiar putea fi intr-adevar o zeitate. In plus este si antropomorfa.

Urfa Man: The 11,000 year old... - Origins Conference | فيسبوك
فيسبوك – Facebook Urfa Man: The 11,000 year old… – Origins Conference | ف

Apoi daca erau spirite parerea generala este ca puteau fi spirite ale stramosilor. Chiar cu o seara inainte nu am putut adormi si vre-o doua ore in sir tin minte ca am avut o serie de idei valoroase din care sper ca incet-incet sa-mi reamintesc o parte.In orice caz, parerea mea este ca e vorba de spirit. La pilonul/monumentul tot de data mai tarzie, neolitic B, PPNB dupa neolitic A, PPNA tot in forma de T descoperit in Turcia la Adiyaman-Kilisik, se vede mai bine silueta umanoida (Din The First Adam, Androgyny, and the ‘Ain Ghazal Two-headed Busts “Neolithic B stone statue from Kilisik at the foot of the Taurus Mountains “) :

A rather odd figure: The so-called Kilisik Sculpture from Adıyaman, Turkey  – DAI Blogs

DAI Blogs <<În acest caz, exemplul Kilisik ar reprezenta prima descriere feminină asociată cu sculpturile în formă de T. Deoarece descrierea nu are caracteristici sexuale clare, aceasta rămâne o posibilitate destul de vagă și ambivalentă, care cere cercetări suplimentare.>> IN SCHIMB PILONII CENTRALI DIN STRATUL III/PPNA DE LA GOBEKLITEPE dupa parerea mea REPREZINTA SPIRITE ! Imaginea, din×381.jpg

Gobekli Tepe: Zero Point of the Time and World's First Temple |  VoyageTurkey.Net

Dupa ipoteza mea, este vorba de un spirit care preceda cu mii de ani conceptul complex sumerian reprezentat de ME. Semnul/icoana in forma de “T” s-a pastrat si perpetuat mii de ani, reaparand mai apoi ca semn proto-cuneiform pe la 4.000-3.500B.C.. Sign

Nota toate semnele proto-cuneiforme sumeriene au suferit in decursul timpului o rotatie de 90 de grade, asa incat sa nu ne necajim ca nu avem direct forma T.

Este adevarat, ca <<Prapastia care ne separă de constructorii lui Gobekli Tepe este aproape de neimaginat. Într-adevăr, deși stăteam printre megalitii care se apropiau dornici să-și înțeleagă sensul, ei nu mi-au vorbit. Erau cu totul străini, așezați acolo de oameni care vedeau lumea într-un mod pe care nu-l voi înțelege niciodată. Nu există surse care să explice ce ar putea însemna simbolurile. Schmidt este de acord. „Suntem cu 6.000 de ani înainte de invenția scrisului aici”, spune el. „Există mai mult timp între Gobekli Tepe și tăblițele de lut sumeriene [gravate în 3300 î.Hr.] decât de la Sumer până astăzi”, spune Gary Rollefson, un arheolog de la Whitman College din Walla Walla, Washington, care este familiarizat cu opera lui Schmidt. „Încercarea de a scoate simbolismul din contextul preistoric este un exercițiu de inutilitate”.>>

Este conceptul oarecum mai rudimentar sau mai degraba incipient al acestui Me, pentru ca se va vedea ca inca din 9.600 B.C. avea o semnificatie complexa.La sumerieni, Me este esenta oricarui lucru,fapt sau fenomen care tine de viata practica,sociala si religioasa care guverneaza alcatuirea si desfasurarea lor si este de origine divina.

Din << În mitologia sumeriană, un Me (𒈨; sumerian: me; akkadian: paršu) este unul dintre decretele/hotararile divinitatii care este fundamental pentru acele instituții sociale, practici religioase, tehnologii, comportamente, moravuri și condiții umane care fac posibila civilizația, asa cum Sumerienii au înțeles-o posibila. Ele sunt fundamentale pentru înțelegerea sumerienilor a relației dintre umanitate și zei.>>

Pilonii nu reprezinta o zeitate anume si ca atare nu aveau un nume, cu atat mai putin unul concret. Nefiind o zeitate antropomorfa nici nu are aspect omenesc, ci reprezinta o entitate ceva mai abstracta fara o forma anume, cel putin fara o forma cunoscuta. Inchipuitiva ca putea sa reprezinte idea si spiritul vietii.Atunci au facut ca sa fie vizibil ca spiritul are legatura, tangenta cu fiintele si oamenii si de aceea au figurat asa foarte pe departe niste brate.La alti piloni si ideea de feminitate,procreere, totusi pilonii nereprezentand o zeitate ci “spiritul Vietii”.dupa unii cercetatori, Me inseamna dupa unii “legile divine”;”puterile divine”,iar dupa altii se traduce “Vointa de a trai” sau “Fiinta”. Este cumva firesc ca in mod periodic sa se adune sute de oameni la monumente, ei referintuse la pilon “a fi”, “fiinta”. Se pune problema daca chiar a existat semnul, inainte reprezenta tot sunetul me, apoi in ce limba, ce insemna me !? Dupa unii civilizatia imediat precedenta celei de la Gobekli Tepe a fost cea natufiana. A se vedea:NATUFIAN ORIGIN FOR AFROASIATIC? <<The possibility of Natufians speaking proto-Afro-Asiatic, and that the language was introduced into Africa from the Levant, is approved by Colin Renfrew with caution, as a possible hypothesis for proto-Afro-Asiatic dispersal. Posibilitatea natatuenilor de a vorbi proto-afro-asiatică și de a introduce limba în Africa din Levant este aprobată de Colin Renfrew cu prudență, ca o posibilă ipoteză pentru dispersia proto-afro-asiatică. >> Altii zic si presupun Anatolia ca fiind locul de origine al familiei Indo-Europene. Oricum la baza tuturor sta presupusa limba nostratica. Toate cautarile si cercetarile mele in mare parte de natura lingvistica conduc la: ME = “esenta”; “puteri divine”; “a fi”;”fiinta” ;”eu, mie,meu,pe mine” ;”ai nostri” › PAPVB_13 › Mi…PDF Sumerian – IS MUNI have tried to include Sumerian within the hypothetical Nostratic … The Sumerian verb me “to be” can be used independently, but is most .. › files › (5)jlr20…PDF Once Again on the Comparison of Personal Pronouns in Proto … de K Babaev · 2009 · Citat de 6 ori — person singular nominative *egHo(m) vs. oblique *me-. … coincidences, like Indo- European *me ‘me’ = Sumerian (Eme-sal) me ‘ id.’.

Talk:Sumerian language/Archive 1 – Wikiwand › Talk:Sumerian_language › Arch.. <<Me – I, me; nostratic “ME, MI, -M” – I, me, 1st person; turkic “Men” – I.>> › books The Nostratic Macrofamily: A Study in Distant Linguistic Relationship Allan R. Bomhard, John C. Kerns — 2011 · Language Arts & Disciplines *mé—/*mo— ‘more, abundant, considerable’: Old Irish mar ‘great’; Oscan mais ‘more’; Gothic mais … Sumerian me ‘abundance, plenty’.

Sumerian language and word “me”

January 26, 2021

The place of sumerian language in the langage tree even now is not precisely fixed, and disputed. From



Sumerian—the language written in the world’s oldest written texts—is unrelated to any modern language. Linguists have no idea what language group it belonged to. Babylonian and Assyrian are Semitic languages.

 The origin of Sumerian is unknown. It was different from the Semitic languages—Akkadian, Eblaite, Elmamite, Hebrew and Arabic—that followed and appeared not to have been related to Indo-European languages that emerged much later in India and Iran. Only a few words derived from Sumerian have survived. They included “abyss,” and “Eden.” After Sumer was conquered by the Akkadians, spoken Sumerian began to die out but was later preserved by the Babylonians in sort of same way that Latin is kept alive by Europe cultures. It was taught in schools and used in religious rituals.

 John Alan Halloran of wrote: “There appears to be some slight relation between Sumerian and both Ural-Altaic and Indo-European. This may just be due to having evolved in the same northeast Fertile Crescent linguistic area. I don’t see any connection at all between Sumerian and Semitic. [Source: John Alan Halloran,]


Polish among languages of the world

Glen Gordon newer analyses are presented below : or from

From Dr. K. Loganathan, a researcher in SumeroTamil studies believes that there is a strong link between the ancient Tamil language and ancient Sumerian and that Sumerian is, in fact, Archaic Tamil. Based on this hypothesis, he has developed a method for translating Sumerian tablets by matching a phonological reading of the cuneiform script with the ancient Tamil language, which he believes leads to a more accurate translation than the currently used widespread approach.

From Lexical Correspondences between Sumerian and Dravidian

The last few decades have seen some important advances made in unfolding the mystery surrounding the prehistory of the Dravidian speakers in India. Evidence are accumulating to show that there are close linkages between the present day Dravidian speakers and those ancients who established remarkable civilizations in the Indus, ancient Persia and in the valleys of Tigris-Euphrates, called respectively Melluha, Elam and Sumer. The claim David W. McAlpin 91974, 1975) that the ancient Elam is cognate with Dravidian seems to be have been well received by scholars. While uncertainties still surround the decipherment of the Indus script , Walter A.Fairservis Jr. (1986) concludes, after a careful consideration of a variety of factors, that Dravidian remains the best possible candidate for the Harappan language.

Another conjecture that further strengthens the above hypothesis comes from J.V.Kinnier Wilson(1986). He claims that the Harappans and Sumerians were in fact the same people, that the Sumerians were in fact INDO-SUMERIANS, a small group of people who probably separated from the parent stock, the Harappans, settled in Sumeria and began to develop independently.

Now in addition to the above thesis of Indo-Sumerian, we shall propose here what can be called the thesis of Sumero-Dravidians; that sometime after the second millennium B.C. when Sumer was sacked by Hammurabi and taken over by the semitic speaking people who lived initially in Akkad, a substantial number of Sumerians came to India particularly the extreme South and today constitute the basic population of the speakers of Tamil, Malayalam, Kannada, Tulu and other  S.Dravidian languages and were probably the people who established the Sangam Culture around the period 800 B.C to 300 A.D . Evidences in favour of Sumero-Dravidian thesis are accumulating.

From Wikipedia

Nostratic languages - Wikipedia




Image, from EXCAVATING GÖBEKLI TEPE | Saint Laika’s


(PDF) THE UNITY OF HAMITO-SEMITIC AND SUMERIAN … › THE_UNITY_OF_HAMITO-SE… Sumerian me (3,6,7,9) “battle” HS: OAram. mђ “to beat, to harm” 



The divine power over the human world is made concrete in the concept of the Sumerian
me“, a word which is translated into Akkadian as parṣu or with the Akkadianised
Sumerian expression mu. The Akkadian word parṣu belongs, in the first
place, to the cultic environment and designates a “rite”, a “cultic regulation”, an “office”.
However, its meaning also includes concrete objects, such as “symbols” or
More generally, parṣu can mean “decision”, “rule”, “custom”.

In modem translations, the me is often rendered as “divine powers” or else as
divine decrees”, “norms”, “rituals”, “rites“.32 Nevertheless, the Sumerian concept
remains elusive, designating both abstract and concrete things, and, in some texts,
the precise significance remains uncertain.”

Hrůša’s footnote 32 reads: The glossary of ETCSL translates me with “essence”; the electronic Pennsylvania Sumerian
Dictionary gives as tbe meaning “being, divine properties enabling cosmic activity; office;
(cultie) ordinance”. However, the interpretation of me as abstract principles behind concrete
things, such as “essence” or “being” or analogically to the Platonic ideas, does not correspond
with the concrete thinking of the pre-philosophical cultures of the ancient Orient, that
generally avoid the formulating of overall rules or principles. Therefore, it seems to me preferable
to conceive the me in a more concrete way, connecting them with concrete divinities,
their attributes, and offices, rites and symbols of their cult.

Hrůša notes that Enlil is the primary holder of the me, although they also change hands:
“The supreme administrator of the me is the god Enli!, the source of authority and
power. It is he, less often the god An, who assigns the me to the individual gods. He
does this in the Ekur, in his temple in the city of Nippur. The me are assigned not
only to the gods but also to the cities and their temples which are the centres of the
divine cult and the earthly abodes of these gods. The location of the me in the cities
and in the temples demonstrates their cultural and cultic character.

But not only Enlil, other gods too can give the me to another god: so Ninurta
gives the me to his mother, Ninhursaga, or Suen gives the me to his daughter,
Inanna.” Numerous me were collected by Enki and deposited in his subterranean
residence, in Apsû.

The me which are assigned to the individual gods correspond to the performance
of the competences or functions of the respective divinities (the same goes for the
me of kingship conferred on a terrestrial king). The clearest example is the goddess
Inanna/lshtar, who, according to the myth Inanna and Enki, obtains from her father
Enki more than a hundred me: all of them have a connection with tbe divine rule
and cult of Inanna.”

However, as Hrůša notes, the me have also a cult connotation:
In many texts, the word me occurs in connection with the rites (garza/parṣu),
regulations/designs/plans (giš-hur/ uṣurtu) and rites of purification (šuh-luh/šuluhhû),
and seems to designate the “cult” or the “rite, ritual”, especially when it is a
question of the performance of regular cultic occasions (every month, New Year):
“Each month at the new moon the great me, my festival of An, are performed for me

From me divine power, attribute, office; ‘essence‘ (G.
Cunningham, Analysing Lit. Sum. 76) › mythology › my… GRAVITY: Mythology and History – … from the former P-I-E homeland in central Eurasia, i.e. from an extremely landlocked region. … Similarly the Sumerian me means “ cosmic order” as well as “to act, behave,” “to be , say, … › wiki › Recon… Reconstruction:Proto-Dravidian/mē – Wiktionary Proto-Dravidian. Alternative forms. * mēl. Adverb. *mē. up, above. Sumerian ME — Egyptian MA’AT The Sumerians believed that Inanna brought from her father, in the case represented as Enlil , the Lord of the Gods, the fundamental requirements of human life and civilization, immutable manifestations of the divine will which were at the root of Sumerian society. These divinely inspired concepts were called me and include the Kingship and the divine, truth, law, rejoicing, the crafts, and a host of others.
The key to the Egyptian world was represented by the concept ma’at, a term which is elusive and which,
like the Sumerian me resists precise translation. Ma’at is order, balance, the harmony of the universe, a
discipline weighing of many elements in a coherent whole; Ma’at is also truth, for truth and order, in
cosmic or universal terms, must be identical. The hieroglyph for Ma’at is a delicate, adolescent girl, naked
but for a single feather in her hair. In the Egyptian creation myths the process began when the Creator
lifts Ma’at to his lips, and kissing her, thus the universe is born. In my research during the Middle
Kingdom 12th Dynasty King Amenemhet III (2000-1970 B.C.); the king is “the shepherd” of the people;
ma’at, “justice, right”.

Very interesting !…. From Adyghe / Circassian Habze Sjur Cappelen Papazian

The Adyghe “hammer cross” representing god Tha.
Habze is a philosophical and religious system of personal values and the relationship between an individual to others, to the world around him, and to the Higher Mind. In essence, it represents monotheism with a much-defined system of worshipping One God – the Mighty Tha, Thashkhue or Thashkho, who begets the universe.
First of all, Tha expresses himself generating the Word or cosmic Law (Khy), the primordial pattern from which all the beings form naturally, developing by internal laws. Enlightenment for men corresponds to an understanding of Tha’s Law. Tha is omnipresent in his creation (coagulation); according to Adyghe cosmological texts, “his spirit is scattered throughout space”.
In Adyghe hymns Tha (Thashxue) is referred to as “the One everyone asks, but who doesn’t ask back”, “the multiplier of the non-existent”, “on whom everyone places their hope, but who doesn’t place hope on anyone”, “from whom the gifts come”, “His amazing work”, “the One who permits heaven and earth to move”.
Everything is One (Psora Zysch, Psora Hysch), and is one with the Tha. The material-manifested world is in perpetual change, but at the same time there is a foundation that always remains unshaken. That is the originating principle of the world and its Law. The always-changing world and its basis is compared to a rotating wheel: although the wheel is constantly rotating (changing), it has its central hub around which it revolves, which remains still.
An important element is the belief in the soul (psa) of the ancestors, who have the ability to observe and evaluate the affairs of their offsprings. The souls of the ancestors require commemoration, whereby funeral feasts are arranged (hedeus); sacrifice or memorial meal preparations (zheryme) are practiced and distributed for the remembrance of the dead souls.
The concept of physical pain or pleasure in the Hereafter (Hedryhe) is absent — the soul is granted spiritual satisfaction or remorse for one’s chosen path in life in front of himself and his ancestors.
Therefore, the goal of man’s earthly existence is the perfection of the soul, which corresponds to the maintenance of honour (nape), manifestation of compassion (guschlegu), gratuitous help (psape), which, along with valor, and bravery of a warrior, enables the human soul to join the soul of the ancestors with a clear conscience (nape huzhkle).
Etseg literally means “exact”, “true” in the Ossetian language. Din is a cognate of the Persian Daena and the Sanskrit Dharma, which represents “insight” and “revelation”, and from this “conscience” and “religion”, the Eternal Law or the order of the universe, equivalent to the Ṛta (“properly ordered”, “properly bound”) in all Indo-European religions.

From ON ТНЕ ORIGINAL МEANING OF SUМERIAN МЕ (lmages of Weltanschauung and the Methods of Тl1eir Study) V.V. Yemelyanov

<<The article discusses the proЫem of translating and int,:rpreting Sumerian МЕ Ьу means of the O\d
Babylonian cuneifonn vocabularies and the Neo-Sumerian Gudea texts. The main supposition is that the
word was derived from the verb МЕ «
to bе apparent, visible» and its original meaning was «will to live».
The author understands МЕ as the first stage of the life-process: transition of а subject from the inner
world to the outer space (as one can conclude from the cuneiform sign МБ «tongue put out of mouth»).
This is why МЕ’s are so important in the New Year period of Sumero-Babylonian calender texts.>>

ATTENTION, IT DOESN’T PURPOSE TO LOOK FOR DEEDS OR MORE OR LESS ABSTRACT AND ILLUSIVE, THE PROBLEM IS MUCH SIMPLER: LIFE AND DEATH About the shape of the proto-cuneiform sign in “T” (Sumerian reading ME) From THE LAND OF THE CELESTIAL GATES (Excerpt from the book <“Lion” Character in the Petroglyphs of Syuniq and Ancient World>)

<< ME – the ETSCL, which frequently translates the word me in other texts as essence=«էություն», has not translated the word under discussion and has left it as it is. H. Vanstiphout has translated it is as power, while I.Kaneva translates it in one instance as закон=law and in the other instance as обряд=rite. As a result Aratta has been described as “the mountain of the shining ME”, “the mountain of the inviolate powers” and “the country of clean rights”, respectively. Firstly, these descriptions differ in the meanings they express and secondly, if we look at it from the point of view of our issue, the meaning of me remains uncertain. In future writings we will try to show that it is necessary to use the “passage, fissure,aperture, door, gate, way” meaning of the ME cuneiform sign in this segment. For that, first we must clarify all the readings and meanings of all the words and then determine the complete meaning of the segment.>>

MÂNTUIRE (3).Etimologie

November 26, 2020

Imaginea, din


Va trebui sa scriu acum repede, pana nu uit.Azi dupa-amiaza “mi-a picat fisa” (exprimarea vulgara a revelatiei).Macar nu am stat degeaba ultimele doua nopti pana la 5 dimineata.Am facut legatura intre cateva chestiuni constatate separat in postarile precedente:

  • Limba veche croata Mentui=lat. avertat =”fereste” Mai ales asa cum l-am gasit, Bog Mentui=Deus Avertat= “fereasca Dumnezeu” (in “Tatal Nostru” se potriveste perfect : “…si ne mantuie de cel rau”
  • M-au frapat apoi formele (cu conjugarile aferente) a verbului “a minti” in limbile romanice, cum ar fi mentitus=”mintit“.Bineinteles ca am fugit ca de dracu’ de el, pentru ca mai apoi sa dau de dracu’.
  • Am mai gasit, (dar nu am incredere si voi vedea la ce folosesc) ca s-ar parea ca lat. metui=” a-ti fi frica” apare f.rar si ca mentui; apoi am gasit in franceza veche mentui ca forma gramaticala a verbului mentevoir. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  • Problema incepe in mod paradoxal de la lat. mentior :”a minti”m care provine la randul sau din radacina Proto Ind-Europeana MEN:”minte” : The meaning “to lie” stems from a semantic shift “to be inventive, have second thoughts > “to lie, conjure up”.

mentior (present infinitive mentīrī or mentīrierperfect active mentītus sum); fourth conjugationdeponent

  1. (with dative) I liedeceiveCur es ausus mentiri mihi?How dared you lie to me?c. 200 BCE – 190 BCEPlautusCaptivi 3.5.46
  2. pretendfeign “ma pretind, prefac”, adica este vorba de ascunderea adevarului, deviere,deturnare, ma feresc (sa spun adevarul)
  3. Acest avertat, are doar sensul comun de “fereste”, alfel:
  4. lat. avertere, avertat:”abate, abatut“=engl. avert
  5. Etymology From Middle English avertenadverten, from Old French avertir (“turn, direct, avert; turn the attention, make aware”), from Latin āvertere, present active infinitive of āvertō, from ab + vertō (“to turn”).
  6. Deci de fapt cuvantul mentui de unde o fi venit el, din mariajul latinei cu slava sau din ilira, dupa cat se pare o forma locala (locul!?) a unei limbi romanice=sermo vulgaris, sau mai dinainte (?) inseamna:
  7. preface, fereste, abate,deviere,deturnare, intoarcere
  8. Asa incat “si ma mentui.e/mentui.aste de cel rau”= ” si ma fereste/abate/deviaza/deturneaza/intoarce de (la) cel rau” ..eventual mentui-iaste=”este fereste”…mentuit:este ferit…. daca traduc din engleza avert:”evita” in fereste in engleza :”look out, “(atentie), Google i-mi scoate “forbid”(interzice), iar pentru a feri in engleza i-mi apare:”keep out”(tine afara). Deci se adauga cumva si sensurile “evita, interzice, atentioneaza, tine afara”

Din Old French mentevoir latin mente habere:”have in mind” “to mention; to speak of” (a mentiona, a vorbi despre)…deci acel mentui gasit in conjugare inseamna engl.mention, rom. mentioneaza.

154 MENTEVOIR Franceză veche Etimologie Din latină mente habēre („a avea în minte”). Comparați Occitan mentàver .Verb mentevoir “de mentionat ; să vorbim despre” ; [pass.simp.]
1 : mentui, mantui ; mentoi, mantoi ; mentu ; menti
3 : mentut
6 : menturent, manturent

Albaneza (Google translate): mendje:”minte”; menduar:gand, gandire”; mentuar:”mentionat

ATENTIE: Se pare ca in mare masura este vorba de procese mentale sau actiun rezultate din hotarare, gandire.Deci mantuirea nu este in plan fizic, ci este pe plan mental etic si moral.

Nu stiu cum s-o fi intamplat fenomenul, sa fi pornit totul de la: – un mentui (fereste) si un posibil din lat. metuo>mentuo? :”teama, frica”( si in engleza fear, frica <seamana> rom. a feri ….+ de la mentior (act.perf. mentitus:”mintit”.. ..careia numai putin ii lipseste sa fie mentuitu(s)

……cand s-a facut trecerea de la limba latina si a fost altoita pe dialectele locale in familia de limbi romanice, populatiile au avut atat imaginatie cat si sprit practic si nu s-or fi impiedicat ei de gramatici.

====================================== Dupa ce am scris pagina. ulterior am revenit pentru a explica succint pentru cei care nu au pacienta si mult timp, argumentele pentru originea lui a mantui din fondul limbilor romanice si nu din magh. menteni.

Toate cuvintele maghiare cu radacina MENT provin dupa lingvisti din radacina uralica MANTU:”a salva” iar dupa mine din radacina uralica MEN:”a merge”

Toate cuvintele din limbile romanice cu radacina MEN gen mentire:” a minti” mentevoir:” a avea in minte,mentiona” dar si cele latine cu aceeasi radacina gen mens:”mind/minte” , mentior:”a invoca, minti”menti:”(a)” minti” pornesc de la radacina I.E. MEN:”minte” Acum : 1 – forma lui mantuit mantuire tradeaza sursa latina si in ultima instanta I.E. prin constructia cu “tuit” si “tuire“. In latina avem cuvintele: tui =”rude,casa“, tuit=”protejeaza,supravegheaza,priveste la,sustine,apara” (pt. mantuit) tuitor=”gardian,protector,sustinator,aparator”; (pantru mantuitor) tuitus;”aparat“(part.perf al lui tueor=”a pazi, apara, proteja” (tot pt. mantuit/mantuitu) tueor,tueri:”spraveghez,pazesc apar protejez,mentin,sustin,pastrez” (mentru mantuitor,mantuire) 2-Este greu de crezut sa fi luat noi radacina din maghiara si sa o flexionam pe latineste. 3- Apoi, carevasazica toata Europa ar fi luat (toti au la fel) cuvantul de la o restransa ca raspandire “noua” populatie Panonica versus ei sa ia de la toata Europa. 4- In cele mai vechi texte biblice si ale Tatalui nostru, apar in locul lui mantuieste (ex: si mantuieste-ne de cel rau) cuvinte cu alte semnificatii in sensul de a lua pacatele si doar mai tarziu si mai rar a aparut salvarea (asa cum se traduce menteni) 4- Daca intrebi un maghiar cum intelege el romanescul mantuire nu-ti spune menteni ci “Idvezités”

Din › webPDF DICTIONARIU Idvezités, *. fericire, salvare, mentuire. Idvezitni, v. a ferici, a salvă, a mentuí. Idvezitő, *. salvatoriu, mentuitoria. Idvezlet, g. salva, salutare. Idvezülni, v. a se mentuí, a se fericí. Idveziilés, s. fericire, salvare. Idvezűlt, fericitu, salvata; reposatu u Domnulu ==============================

……. ma gandesc ca in trecut oamenii erau mai modesti si se multumeau daca in viata asta sant feriti de rau. Altfel, preotii,religia, dorinta de a avea si aia si aia si ailanta, mantuirea are vre-o cine stie cate, 18!? semnificatii (m-am oprit la 12 !):

Din MÂNTUÍ, (1, 4mấntui, (2, 3mântuiesc, vb. IV. Tranz. și refl. 1. (Pop.) A (se) salva (dintr-o primejdie, din robie, de la moarte etc.). 2. (Pop.) A (se) vindeca (de o boală). 3. (În religia creștină) A (se) curăța de păcate; a (se) izbăvi, a (se) salva. 4. (Pop.) A (se) termina, a (se) isprăvi, a (se) a sfârși. ◊ Expr. (Refl.) A se mântui cu… = a muri. [Prez. ind. și: (2, 3mấntui] – Din magh. menteni.

mântui [At: PSALT. HUR. 28v/6 / V: (înv) măn~ / Pzi: mântui și ~esc / E: mg ment1-2vtr (Îvp) A (se) salva dintr-o primejdie, de o nenorocire etc. 3-4vtr (Spc) A (se) dezrobi5-6vtrp (Bis) (A ierta sau) a obține iertarea pentru păcatele săvârșite Si: a (se) izbăvi.7-8vtr (Îvp) A (se) vindeca de o boală. 9vr (înv) A se dezvinovăți. 10-11vrt(a) (Pop) A (se) termina

A SE MÂNTUÍ mă ~iéscintranz. 1) pop. A ajunge la capăt; a se încheia; a se termina. * ~ (cu cineva) a muri. 2) rel. A-și ispăși păcatele; a scăpa de pedeapsa divină. [Și mântui] /<ung. menteni

Altfel, termenul oarecum echivalent din definitie lui din serbo-croata are numai sensul de eliberare.

ìzbaviti pf (Cyrillic spelling ѝзбавити :” to freeliberate ” … cand la noi, care am luat cuvantul de la ei insemna multmai multe:

IZBĂVÍ, izbăvesc, vb. IV. Tranz. şi refl. (Pop.) A scăpa (dintr-o primejdie, boală etc.); a (se) salva, a (se) mântui. – Din sl. izbaviti.
(Dicţionarul explicativ al limbii române)

A IZBĂV//Í ~ésctranz. 1) (fiinţe) A scoate dintr-o situaţie complicată; a salva; a scăpa. 2) (persoane) A face să se izbăvească. /<sl. izbaviti
(Noul dicţionar explicativ al limbii române)

A SE IZBĂV//Í mă ~éscintranz. A izbuti să se elibereze (de ceva sau de cineva care incomodează); a se dezbăra; a se descotorosi; a se debarasa; a scăpa. /<sl. izbaviti
(Noul dicţionar explicativ al limbii române)

izbăví (izbăvésc, izbăvít), vb. – A salva, a scăpa dintr-o primejdie, a elibera, a răscumpăra. Sl. izbaviti (Tiktin; DAR), cf. bg. izbavjam. – Der. izbavă, s.f. (salvare), din sl. izbavaizbăvitor, adj. (salvator); izbăvinţă, s.f. (înv., salvare).
(Dicţionarul etimologic român) Sinonime:
IZBĂVÍ vb. v. mântui. —————————————————————-

Deci ar parea ca mantuit nu are si sensul de aparare,salvare,eliberare. Dar un vorbitor de limba latina percepe din mentuitu/mantuitu si percepe, intelege: men-tuitu(s)/man-tuitu(s), in care: Etymology Past passive participle of tueor

tueor ( infinitiv prezent tuērī , perfect activ tuitus sum ); 

  1. Am uita sau privirea la, iată , ceas , vedere .tueri traversa – a se uita chioras
  2. Am de îngrijire pentru, paza , apăra , proteja , de sprijin , compensa sau compensa pentru.te amo, tua tueor – Te iubesc și îți pasă de tine
  3. Eu susțin , ține pasul , să mențină , conserva .

tuitus (feminine tuitaneuter tuitum); first/second-declension participle

  1. defended (aparat)
  2. Number Singular Plural
  3. Case/gender Masc Fem Neuter Masc Fem Neuter
    1. Tuitus tuita tuitum tuiti tuitae tuiti
    2. Insa un got, gotic cunoscator de latina (ex. Wulfila) percepe MANN-tuitu(s)=om-aparat.
    3. Vedeti cum avem: mantuitu, mantuita, mantuiti, mantuite.
  1. ….altfel mai avem

tuitiō  f ( genitiv tuitiōnis ); Etimologie De la tuitus  ( „ păzit, îngrijit, apărat “ ) + -tiō , participiul pasiv perfect de tueor  ( „ pentru a viziona, pază, îngrijire pentru, proteja, apăra, să susțină, să mențină, să mențină “ ) .

  1. supraveghere , pază ; apărare , pază , protecție
  2. îngrijire , îngrijire ; tutelă , îngrijire
  3. păstrare , întreținere , conservare , susținere ; întreținere , conservare

Romanian verb “a mantui”(1). Etimology

November 14, 2020

All endeavour began after I wached on youtube the speach “Some reflections on stupidity/dumbness” of Romanian renown scholar Andrei Plesu.

There he made an asertion that the name of one of the most revered monument of romanians, brand-new biggest Orthodox cathedral, ” Catedrala mantuirii neamului” is composed of three words, none of romanian origin, pointing that neam and mantuire is appearing in DEX (Romanian Explanation/Etymological Dictionary) the words neam and mantuire to have an hungarian origin.

From “Din magh. nem.” and “Din magh. menteni.

I was quite shocked and realised that it is an unforgivable and inexcusable mistake or lack of minimal linguistis knowledge and due of lasyness of our schollars.

Cause Danubian area is the very place of Old Europe (Vinca-Turdas, Cucuteni cultures).  See

Panonian plain and Carpathian Mountains area were inhabited before any of many Asian hordes raided Europe relentless one after another. Inhabited by thraco-dacian related people, and before by ancient populations, pre-Indo-European and after them, true Indo-Europeans. And one of the supposed pool and origin of Indo-European family of languages.

arian home

c. 5000 bc. Homeland:  The Danube River valley (Wallachia and Hungary).

Panonian basin before 200-500 AD. from

and later (~ 100-200 A.D.)

Celts on Panonia


******************************************** Romanian-English        Translation of “mantuire” in English, From Noun: “salvation, redemption, saving, revivalism, peace-offerings, soul rapture-ready”

To start quite abruptly, I did not found something better than:

From Mihai-Silviu Chirilă: Mântuirea din › ma… „mântuire” provine de la manu („de mână”) și tenere („a ține”). … Interesanta originea neclara sau multipla a cuvantului “mantuire

The Romanian dictionaries consider ‘mântuire’ a loan word from the Hungarian menteni ‘to (get) free, to (self) save, to liberate from a deadlock’. Consulting the Hungarian Etymological Dictionary (1970) we find the verb ment ‘to free, guard, deliver, save, exit, run,’ but not a form menteni as such. This dictionary lists as the first attestation of ment dating around 1195 in the funerary song Halotti beszéd és könyörgés.

I’ve found:- ment=”went” and megment=”save mentén:”along” mentés=”rescue, salvage

From save – English to Hungarian Meaning of save – hungarian.english … › q=save HungarianEnglish menteni:”save” ; Also, hung. mentés :” rescue ,salvage, saving/save ,recovery ,lifesaving”  From ; A mentés=”save”

Other native hungarian not agree with this above opinion: Talk:Hungarian language

<< Important information is also, the Italian substratum and effect on the Romanian language, the Friauli dialect (linguistic continuity between Venetia – Istria – Dalmatia in the Roman times), this can be easily checked (Schuchardt: Der Vocalismus des Vulgarlateins. Leipzig 1868. II. 46). Some Hungarian loanwords from the Romanian language (they are reflecting the case mentioned above): Nému, aldui, aldasiu, fagadasiu, surzuita, birau, biru, kezesiu, oca, uca, orasiu, orasianu, feredeu, hiklenia, valciegu, hasna, keskeneu, mestesiugu, uricasiu, bulciu, gandu, haleu, hotar, holda, ileu, valmasiu, gazdaku, vama, chipu, chipzui, ravasiu, ravasiu de drumu, sáma, dare de sáma, catana, fagadau, lacui, lacasiu, mintui, mintuitor, vileag, siru, urlui, uiag, fel, felu, giulusiu, alénu, bintatuire, untuire, ingaduire, etc.

Quite interesting as long as hungarian tribes come to Europe one with turkic/altaic language (Magyars) and another with ugric (Hungars). From c. 830 to c. 895 Around 830, a rebellion broke out in the Khazar khaganate. As a result, three Kabar tribes of the Khazars joined the Hungarians and moved to what the Hungarians call the Etelköz, the territory between the Carpathians and the Dnieper River. The Hungarians faced their first attack by the Pechenegs around 854,[37] though other sources state that an attack by Pechenegs was the reason for their departure to Etelköz Entering the Carpathian Basin (c. 895) ! ! Cause they entered an already established pool of previ ous thousend years allready settled population . Wich for sure thought all populations of Earth what is happening with them afer death. Me: Until 955 were under Byzantinen empire influenced, and had an incipient form of christianism. They turn to christianism after 955.

From the arrival of the Hungarians, three early medieval powers, the First Bulgarian EmpireEast Francia and Moravia, had fought each other for control of the Carpathian Basin. Their language: Origin of word roots in modern Hungarian Uncertain 30% Uralic 21% Slavic 20% German 11% Turkic 9.5% Latin and Greek 6% Romance 2.5% Other known 1%

Weird, this mentes is identical with : - : – mentes:” to mention” and: – latin mentes:”mind” ……(wich in turn has the I.E. root MEN :”mind”( pre I.E. minoan MIN:”constant”), from wich come a constalation of words beginning from gr.menos:”mind,desireardorwishpurpose,anger,couragespiritvigor,powerstrengthforce,violence

” and meno:”stay, wait” ==============

<<Previous attempts to clarify the etymology of this word include suggestions offered by the Romanian theologians who offered a Latin solution for ‘mântuire’ from manes ‘the souls of dead’ and tueor, tueri ‘keep’, thus ´the keeping of the souls after death´. On the same direction is the solution through Latin manus ‘hand’ and teneō ‘to hold’.

Other theologians, among them Dumitru Staniloaie, consider ‘mântuire’ as related to the Latin mentes ´mind´ and tueor, tueri, expressing ´a change of mind, a renewal of consciousness´,  cognate with the Greek meta-noew  ’a change of mind, repent’,….>>

manutenere – › wiki › manutenere

  1. From Late Latin manūteneō (“I support”), from Latin manū (“with the hand”) + (“I hold”). PronunciationEdit. Rhymes: -ere. VerbEdit. manutenere. (transitive) 

..or the refined:

Hungarian, or rather substratum elements in Romanian? › search › article-detail… Rom. gând < Hu. gond; labă ~ láb, talpă < talp etc., while a mântui is explainable as a peculiar development of post-classical Lat. manu tueor ‘to heal by hand.

From › pdfPDF Bibliografia românească de lingvistică – Diacronia PALIGA, SORIN, <<*Manu tuitus: mantuit = salvat de mâna Lui, rom. “saved (by His) hand” In honorem Onufrie Vinţeler,. 2011, 241–250 [mântui, mântuire, Mântuitor].Diacronia | Impavidi progrediamur!Diacronia is an online, open-access, peer-reviewed journal of historical >>

=========================================== But I begun from: Root *men- “to thinkmind.spiritual activity” >>> lat.*mén-ti-s ~ *mn̥-téy-s (“thought”); proto I-Iran *mántram m (religion)meditationchanting, and Root *men- “to stayremain” Derived terms:*mén-e-ti (root thematic present) Hellenic: *ménō Ancient Greek: μένω (ménō, “to stay, remain”)

Otherwise we have also: gr. manteuomai Definition: to divine
Usage: I divine, practice soothsaying, fortune telling, suggesting the fraud involved in the practice. ============================================

But MANTUIRE is one of (or both):

A) Manutenere, or/and manu+tueor, as keep by hand, MAINTAIN

3 – Etymological Dictionary of › directory· Translate this pageFrom ProtoIndoEuropean *menth2- ‘id.’ Indo-European … mantener (Verb) “to maintain” Borrowed from Medieval Latin manutenere ‘id.,’ literally “to hold by 

B)MAN(es)Tuor, ManTuit(us)

From <<In ancient Roman religion, the Manes /ˈmeɪniːz/ or Di Manes are chthonic deities sometimes thought to represent souls of deceased loved ones. …….

The theologian St. Augustine, writing about the subject a few centuries after most of the Latin pagan references to such spirits, differentiated Manes from other types of Roman spirits:

Apuleius “says, indeed, that the souls of men are demons, and that men become Lares if they are good, Lemures or Larvae if they are bad, and Manes if it is uncertain whether they deserve well or ill… He also states that the blessed are called in Greek εὐδαίμονες [eudaimones], because they are good souls, that is to say, good demons, confirming his opinion that the souls of men are demons.>>

From tueor Alternative forms Etymology

From Proto-Italic *toweōr, from Proto-Indo-European *tewH- (to look favorably, protect, observe”)

tueor (present infinitive tuērīperfect active tuitus sum); second conjugationdeponent

From tuitus (feminine tuitaneuter tuitum); first/second-declension participle

  1. defended Note: why + the other meanings of tueor as “compensate= redeeem”??

So “Keep up,maintain,preserve, guarddefendprotectsupportCOMPENSATE, The spirit,soul of the dead”

(otherwise “SAVE=(in Christian use) preserve (a person’s soul) from damnation”

Note: redemtion, redeeem<close meaning?>to compensate “redeem:” compensate for the faults or bad aspects of..” in religion:” save (someone) from sin, error, or evil.” “Compensate=REDEEM the SOUL

C) Man(eo) + tuit(us)

From << maneo Etymology From Proto-Indo-European *men- (“to stay, stand still”) (with mānsum influenced by mānsī), related to Persian ماندن‎ (mândan, “to remain”), Ancient Greek μένω (ménō, “I remain” Verb:maneō (present infinitive manēreperfect active mānsīsupine mānsum); second conjugation

  1. (intransitive) I stay, REMAIN, abide quotations ▼
  2. (transitive) I awaitwait for, expect (be in store for)Mors sua quemque manet. ― Death awaits everyone.
  3. (intransitive) I wait
  4. (intransitive) I continuelastendure ====================================
  5. Mantuit(us):” remain, last saved” ;”provide remaining, “REDEEMED REMAINING

??? › stable
Rezultate de pe web
Arya IV – jstor
de la HW Bailey · 1963 ·
CLavv’a must now be connected with Latin mant- in mantu-s ‘ short mantle’, mantuitus ‘ cloaked ‘, mantica ‘ wallet ‘, mantellum ‘ covering ‘. metuere fürchten (mentuo, mentui, Note:mistake? :mentuo, mentui?

Full text of “ELEMENTS OF THE SCIENCE OF LANGUAGE … 170 § 148,^^he elements building up IndoEuropean languages . … Thus I.-E. •men-fids gives *mT}t6a The Latin mentui preserves the nasal and gives the … Slavic Church Slavic—Bulgarian Serbo- Illyrian Slavic Croatian — Slovenian Itusaian … Verb metuō (present infinitive metuereperfect active metuīsupine metūtum); third conjugation ….metuit

  1. fear, am afraid
  2. › flashcards › deck
  3. Book 1, lines 12-33 Flashcards |
  4. Languages And Literatures · Elementary Latin. Practice cardsloading… Practice cards done … metuo, -ere, mentui, -utus. fear


MentenChlamys, dis, f. Veſtis ſuperior. 
Mentenecz. Chlamydula, æ, f. 
Mentuvanye zverhu cheſza na piſzmu. Cautio, onis, f. 
Mentui Bog. Avertat Deus. avertat:WARNEDturned away
averted; avoided

Nekoji prilozi za povjest kaptolske tvrđe u Varaždinskim … › file PDF <<Ako bi potribno gda, sta Bogh mentui, moiu kerv, polegh nyh … „Varaždin koncem XVI. vijeka” u „Vjesniku kr. hrv.-slav.-dalm. zemaljskoga arkiva” 1911. J Barlé · ‎1912>>

From › prasiblaškom-l… Tautinis Brandas – Prasiblaškom versuri + traducere în Engleză 30 sept. 2014 — Kažkas ant gatvės aiškinasi mentui. Lithuanian: Kažkas ant gatvės aiškinasi mentui English: Someone at the street is explaining something to a policeman

Also an text from spanish:

by Francisco Nodar Manso › dow…PDF Rezultate de pe web in partial fulfilment of the requirements Department of … Francisco Nodar Manso. Hispanic Stud.ies. Master of Arts. Scholars … << Los criticos han analizado la lirica gallegoportuguesa
desde dos perspectivas antag5nicas

E oj’ est o prazo passado ! Por que mentui o perjurado? ai, madre, moire d’amor~. (XVII,p.l? , vv.>> Note: perhaps the meaning is “lied to” Portuguese-english mentui=”LIED

Las jarchas estan documentadas desde el siglo XI, y par tanto le corresponde a la lirica hispano-arabiga ser la mas antigua conservada escrita en una lengua romance ; como consecuencia de este hecho las investigaciones pos·teriores a la publicacion de las jarchas parten de
la lirica hispano-arabiga para dilucidar los innumerables problemas que suscita el estudio de la lirica medieval europea.

Vease para la musica gallega: J. Ribera, “De musica y metrica
gallegas”, Homena,je a Ramon Menendez Pidal, III, 1925, pags. 7-35;
Isabel Pope, “Medieval Latin Background of the Thirteenth Century Galician Lyric”, .§.]2, IX, (1943)

?? › egigerofa › docs Czuczor-Fogarasi szótár by VZ B – issuu 19 iul. 2011 — Hasonlóan a latin-hellén szerkezetű koroná-nak, mint fejet … fél ( dimidium), fel-et, fel-ek, fel-ez, fél (mentuit) tájejtéssel: fíl ?????

The historie of the Councel of Trent Conteining eight bookes … › eebo… of Saint Peter in the Vatican, of Saint Paul, and many others in diuers places, … <<Si ista vera sunt omnia, & Papae nihil mentui sunt, quid opus est Con∣cilio?>>google translate: If these things are true, & there is nothing to the mind of the Pope, what need is there Con|cilio?

=================================================== These supposed: – mantuitus:”cloacked”, (probably related to mantle, mantua) – Croatian menten:” chlamis/dis”, even supposed -Cr. mentui:”avert” – metuo /mentuo/metuere/mentui= “feared”? mentui”avert”, “lied to” ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

All are pointing to gr. mantis and manteuomai:”seer,sooth-saying, fortune-telling, oracle and so on.

In fact all above words give an intersection of mental fields of seer, cloak, chlamydis, mantle, guess, warned, etc. χλᾰμῠ́ς  (khlamús) f (genitive χλᾰμῠ́δος); third declension

  1. cloakrobemantle +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

– sumerian bārû” or “haruspex”

Haruspicy | The Prediction › haruspicy Over the thousands of years that the Babylonian, Akkadian, Sumerian and other Mesopotamian cultures thrived, their priests and astrologers developed ..

Sumerian and Babylonian Psalms – Stephen Langdon … › books › about › Sumerian_and_Bab…Jul 16, 2019 — While it is impossible to define the spheres of activity of the asipu and kalu priests, yet one fact remains clear, viz. that the psalmists (kalu)

– etruscan & roman haruspices (entrails inspection),seers,fortune-tellers – greek oracles,Zeus%20at%20Dodona%20in%20Epirus. and – greek divination “The other type of mantis was the independent consultant mentioned above. The important generals and statesmen had their own prophets, to avoid such difficulties as Agamemnon experienced, when Calchas forced him to sacrifice his daughter and ransom his female prize in the opening of The Iliad. Privately hired manteis, such as Alexander used, never seemed to disagree with command decisions, or if a possibly negative prophecy was received, made sure that it was given the most favorable interpretation. By that time, based on what Cicero said, the leaders were probably skeptical of prophecy, but the beliefs of the superstitious soldiers were a factor to be considered.”

…………and through-out time to greek mysteries : Eleusinian Mysteries – Wikipedia › wiki › Eleusinian_Mysteries ; Greco-Roman mysteries – › wiki › Greco-Roman_mysteries and world-wide & greek incubation rituals Image

Of Gods and Dreams: The Ancient Healing Sanctuary of Epidaurus - Greece Is

Incubation (ritual) – › wiki › Incubation_(ritual) <<Incubation is the religious practice of sleeping in a sacred area with the intention of experiencing a divinely inspired dream or cure. Incubation was practised by many ancient cultures. In perhaps the most well known instance among the Hebrews, found in 1 Kings 3Solomon went to Gibeon “because that was the most renowned high place to offer sacrifices.” There “the Lord appeared to Solomon in a dream at night,” and Solomon asked God for the gift of an understanding heart. Among the members of the cult of Asclepius, votive offerings found at ritual centres at EpidaurusPergamum, and Rome detail the perceived effectiveness of the method. Incubation was adopted by certain Christian sects[1] and is still used in a few Greek monasteries. Modern practices for influencing dream content by dream incubation use more research-driven techniques, but they sometimes incorporate elements reflecting these ancient beliefs.

A form of incubation was also used by ancient Greeks iatromantes. According to Peter Kingsley, iatromantis figures belonged to a wider Greek and Asian shamanic tradition with origins in Central Asia. A main ecstatic, meditative practice of these healer-prophets was incubation (ἐγκοίμησις, enkoimesis). More than just a medical technique, incubation reportedly allowed a human being to experience a fourth state of consciousness different from sleeping, dreaming, or ordinary waking: a state that Kingsley describes as “consciousness itself” and likens to the turiya or samādhi of the Indian yogic traditions.>>

Note ! in english we have cloack as mantle and cloac as primitive animals common digestive-genital tract the word related to incubation.(latin cloaca sewer, cesspitcesspool, (anatomycloaca

… before-romanians ZALMOXIS

Arhive Zamolxe | Povestea Locurilor << Zalmoxis had lived among the wisest of Greeks, such as Pythagoras, and had been initiated into Ionian life and the Eleusinian Mysteries. He built a banquet hall, and received the chiefs and his fellow countrymen at a banquet. He taught that neither his guests nor their descendants would ever die, but instead would go to a place where they would live forever in a complete happiness. He then dug an underground residence. When it was finished, he disappeared from Thrace, living for three years in his underground residence. The Thracians missed him and wept fearing him dead. The fourth year, he came back among them and thus they believed what Zalmoxis had told them.[ >>

Polovragi, pestera lui Zamolxe

Salmos (spanish “psalm”) and solomonari. <<Zeus hypothesis. King Solomon as weather-maker may derive from the Greek myth of Zeus the king of gods controlling the weather, a theory proposed by A. Oișteanu[41] This notion that Solomon’s adherents were wizards may have been popularized by the influence of the adventure tale Solomon and Morcolf.[42>> › …
Новый Завет – Мир НЗ – Bible Studies – Русские страницы
It is possible to think of him as an ‘incomplete’ Christian, as indeed was Apollos … In Jer 27,9 [LXX], the false prophets are linked with the manteuo/menoi kai_ oi( .. › webPDF pag.589 b andeie v. manteie, ( Ita/ manta smantella)

By short, the romanian word MANTUIRE=”REDEEMER” has its roots in pre-christian pagan customs wich later somehow coexisted in the same time with christian faith. Those seers, wizards, fortune-tellers, sooth-sayers ,deviners. mags, magicians associated in different measures throughout the time by people with falsity, lie-lying, pseudo-nomo, ?+fear? Also in the semanthic field “hidden-covered“, avertat=divert ,wich really divert people out of sound thinking and turning-diverting them from their previous pagan or christian faith.They were usually dressed with mantles-cloaks-capes and lived in dirt (see lat. cloaca eng. cloac). From mentitus: “counterfeit , feigned ,imitated

The History Girls: Romano-British Cloaks by Caroline Lawrence

Theat’s why gr.mantis-manteuomay is related to mantel-cloak. Also mantis has the same root as mind. Seers not see with eyes but with mindFurther mind is related from the same root to lying.(I.E. root men:” mind”, gr. mantis, μαντεύω=manteuo; lat. mentes & mentis =”mind”; mentior,mentiri,mentire:”to lie” sp.port. “mentir”Old fr. mentir etc.) <<According to one source magic in general was held in low esteem and condemned by speakers and writers……..According to Robert Parker, “magic differs from religion as weeds differ from flowers, merely by negative social evaluation”; magic was often seen as consisting of practices that range from silly superstition to the wicked and dangerous. However, magic seems to have borrowed from religion, adopting religious ceremonies and divine names, and the two are sometimes difficult to clearly distinguish. Magic is often differentiated from religion in that it is manipulative rather than supplicatory of the deities.>>

Despite I continued searches and found now-days modern greek μαντεύω prophesyforetellpredict. guess imp.2pl.μαντεύετε and

imp. pres.μαντεύομαιperf. dependent μαντευτώ › stable
Prophecy and Ecstasy in Greco-Roman Religion and … – jstor
de la T Callan · 1985 · Citat de 44 · Articole conexe
RELIGION AND IN 1 CORINTHIANS by. TERRANCE CALLAN … I will be your spokesman” (manteuo, Moisa, pr. R. Dodds comments ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

So with deep sorrow I must dissapoint and deceive some of you, showing you an sermo vulgaris vulgar latin=romance family word: MENTUITUS Note: the vulgar latin texts has a very scarce presence Participle mentītus (feminine mentītaneuter mentītum); first/second-declension participle

  1. lieddeceived
  2. pretendedfeigned › lista › pdfPDF Rezultate de pe web Amicum habes Now i know, that I had to borrow,. Beg and steal and lie and cheat. … quanto promisi , rapui, mentuitus sum et fefelli conandus te acquiscere …

??? I am puzzled cause by one hand mentuitus sum= “I lie” in vulgar latin and by the other hand tuitus is “defended” !?? tuitus Etymology Past passive participle of tueor Participle tuitus (feminine tuitaneuter tuitum); first/second-declension participle defended

But because we have no mentuitus in classical latin (only mentitus) Mentuitus only in vulgar latin I am forced to take the form wich existed.

For the moment it is of no use the meaning of TUIT:”determined” because have no word mentuit in latin.

I searched for man tuitus thinking that Wulfila used such a word in gothic german there is mann but found only:

Full text of “Handbuch der römischen Alterthümer” – Internet … › stream… (Mommsen ergänzt adeptus est, leichter ergänzt man tuitus est), ut annon[ae^ quinq[ue] … S. Siatiatique de la France, Tome XXI; Resultats generaux du denonibrement .


 HUNFALVY PÁL. AZ OLÁHOK TÖRTÉNETE.                            II. KÖTET. A MAGYAR TUDOMÁNYOS AKADÉMIA KÖNYVKIADÓ              /azolhoktrtnete02hunf_djvu.txt
 "A figyelemre méltó másik szó a mentueste^ mentiiaste különbféle írással kifejezve. Ez a mentui igének con-junctivus praesense. A Máté 27. fejezetének 24. versét:                        ^Egyebeket megtartott, de magát nem tarthatja meg»              az Új testamentomi fordítás így adja vissza:                     «Pre altii a mentuitu, eara pre sine nu poate sa se mentuiaEnnek az új fordításnak czíme : «Noulu Testamentu alu domnului si Mentuitoriului nostru Jisusu Hristosu». 
Honnan valók a mentui és mentuitoriu szók ? Pont- 
briantnak rumun-franczia szótára azt is helyesen a ma- 
gyar menteni szótól származtatja. A Megváltó az olaszban 
Salvatore^ a spanyolban Salvador^ a francziában Sauveur 
 vagy serbatoare lehetett: úgyde ezt a nyelv már az stb. miért nem képezte az oláh nyelv is a latin salvare  szóból a Megváltónak nevét? Azért nem, mert az az 
oláhban csak sárbatoare « ünnep » kifejezésére foglalta volt le. 
Azért folyamodott a magyar mentemhez.^ ebből mentui 
igét és mentuitoriu névszót képezvén.*^'' 
 A rumun nyelv nemcsak magyar szókat fogadott cl, 
melyek mind a míveltség magasabb (politikai és egyházi)" 
 I must check how is written in The Hussite Bible ( is the only written vestige of Hussitism in Hungary. The book – or at least the most of it – was translated by Tamás Pécsi and Bálint Újlaki.) 
 Romanian translation:                                          Un alt cuvânt remarcabil este mentueste mentuiaste
exprimată în scrieri diferite. Acest con-junctivus praesense. Versetul 24 din Matei 27:
<<El i-a păstrat pe alții, dar nu se poate păstra pe el însuși>>
 Revine o nouă traducere testamentară:                        «Pre altii a mentuitu, eara pre sine nu poate sa se mentuia. » Din aceasta titlul noii traduceri: «Noulu Testament alu domnului si Mentuitoriului nostru Jisusu Hristosu ».      
 De unde vin cuvintele mentui și mentuitoriu? Punct-
Dicționarul român-francez Briant este, de asemenea, corect din cuvantul maghiar menteni (salvează) cuvântul derivă. Mântuitorul în Italiana Salvatore în spaniolă Salvador în franceză Sauveur Sauveur etc. :de ce limba vlaha nu a format și latina salvare
numele Mântuitorului la propriu? Nu, pentru că în Vlaha ar putea fi doar sárbatoare sau serbatoare: așa mai departe
Limba era deja rezervată pentru termenul «vacanță».
El a făcut apel la mentemhez-ul meu maghiar. ^ Din care mentui
verb și substantiv mentuitoriu. *  
 Limba română a primit nu numai cuvinte maghiare cl, 
 care sunt toate superioare în educație (politică și ecleziastică)
Nota: Foarte stiintifica abordarea atat timp cat extrage acel pasaj Matei din propria lucrare.Cand putea face un minim efort sa vaza cum apar cuvintele in scripturi romanesti mai vechi sau foarte vechi !                                       ============== English translation ======
 "Another remarkable word is mentueste  mentuiaste expressed in different writings. This con-junctivus praesense. Verse 24 of Matthew 27:                                                     << He has kept others, but he cannot keep himself >>             A new testamentary  translation returns:  
 A new testamentary  translation returns:                     «Pre altii a mentuitu, eara pre sine nu  poate sa se mentuia. » Of this the title of the new translation: «Noulu Testamentu alu domnului si Mentuitoriului nostru Jisusu Hristosu ».         Where do the words mentui and mentuitoriu come from? Point-
The Romanian-French dictionary of briant also correctly derives it from the Hungarian word menteni (me:save). The Savior in Italy
Salvatore ^ in Spanish Salvador ^ in French Sauveur
etc. why did not the Vláh language also form the Latin salvare
the name of the Savior literally? Not because it is
in Oláh it could only be sárbatoare or serbatoare: so on
The language was already reserved for the term «holiday».     
 He appealed to my Hungarian mentemhez of which mentui
verb and mentuitoriu noun. * ^ ''
The Romanian language received not only Hungarian words cl, which are all higher in education (political and ecclesiastical          ======:  mentemhez:"cent" menteni:"swing, sweep, beckon,motionwave(one's hand), warn away from sth.  From 1749 Bible same passage    Google translate, tarthatja :"can hold" megtartott:"retained" I am asking too/the same question: Mr.PÁL, why you do not used for mentuit/mentuire (enlesh redeem,redeemer) Mentemhez-derived words, but:      1.megvalt: "realised"; 2.                                 Redeem :megvált
Redeemed :: megváltott                                    Redeemer :: Megváltó   
Camerata Hungarica - Magyarországi Evangélikus Egyház › sites › default › files › C-Section
Saviour (Megváltó)
My note: He cited the Matehew27 passage from his own paper, not from much or most ancinent romanian writings.                   In fact there is an close form latin verb mentuire .      But of course from mentire "to lie" from Latin mentīrī‎, present active infinitive of mentior:"Denominal verb from mēns, mentis‎ ("mind"). The meaning "to lie" stems from a semantic shift "to be inventive, have second thoughts" , but from the other its 3 meanings:deceive, pretendfeign because the word come to be used before christian religion from pagan devinators,wizzards.Maybe :                  - latins perceived early christians as deceive( trick or mislead)from their fate, or as well            - ancient romanians as under early christian influence perceived latin devinators & haruspices as diverting deceive( trick or mislead)them from their faith.
mentītus (masc.) (fem. mentītaneut. mentītum)
lieddeceived pretendedfeigned.If we have the same mentuire we have not rom.mentitus but mentuitu(s) wich is not present in this shape in latin, only tuitus (defended,saved) separately.

eng.(to)keep rom.(a)”pastra,continua,mentine”      1.rom. Mentine: engl.”maintain” << latin man(u)-tenere      
 2.also “remain / last-defended  rom. (a)”ramane/sfarsiaparat, salvat
3.Also lat.Man(es)-tuit(us) :” save(d)-spirit(soul)” rom. Man tuit(us): “saved soul
 I wander from wich briant french dictionary (but I will check further) he found that rom. “(a) mantui”= eng.”to redeem” is from hungarian language "menteni"!? As long as I found  also Indo-European/Romance/Old French “mentui” a form of mentevoir:
 Full text of "Grammaire sommaire de 1!ancien français .." › stream
 Mentir. Ind. prés. 2* s. mens; 3® s. ment, manL — Pas. déf. 2® s. mentis; 3** s. mentid, mentit, menti, manti ; 3® pi. mentirent. — Futur. 3" s. mentirad. — Subj. prés. 
3* s. mentet, mente. — Infin. mentir, mantir. — Part. prés, mentant. — Part, pas, mentit, mentut.   
 Mentevoir et Mentoivrk. Ind. prés, l""* s. mentoif, mantoif, mentois, mantpis; 3*^ s. mentoit; 2* pi. menlevez, menteves. — Imparf. 3® s. mentevoit. — Pas. déf. f® s. mentui, 
menti ; 3® pi. menlurent, manturenl. — Subj. prés. 3* s. mentoive, mentive. — Infin. menteveir, mentevoir, mentovoir, mentaveir, mentoivre. — Part. prés, mentevant. — Part. pas. 
menteii, manteii, mantehu, mentati, mentiut, mentut, mantu. 
 1.  Etymology: From Latin mente habēre ("have in mind"). Compare Occitan mentàver.   Mentevoir: “to mention; to speak of”
Note: Mentui from any where could come :
 - Is far from Old French mentui: “mentioned,spoked of” or other identical, at least because Romanian word “(a)mantui “ has much, many meanings as gr. Soter(ios),or engl.redeem, save.
 - Gramatical forms is evidencing by “tuit”/”tuitu(s)” possible a much older origin as romance/sermo vulgaris stage.                                                          It seem that is related to latin Balcanic/Aegean mistery rel igions, scorcerers-sooth-sayers,wizards-fortune tellers (in fact at least partly kind of crooks)                               From the time of Salmos(es)/Zalmoxis and solomonari.
 -Sp.salmos=psalm ; thr. salmos:animal skin covering(cloak).    @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
If I will have time I am convinced that this cluster:           hu. menteni/mentemhez                                          gr. men mantis manteuomai, manteuo(μαντεύω,μαντεύτε )                                        lat. mens/mentis/mentui, mentior/mentitus ;                                                rom. mantui(mentui)/mantuire(mentuire)/mantuit(mentuit),mentine, mentenanta                                              fr.mentire, mentevoir/mentui , mentener="keep"                                 engl. maintain , maintenance                                    All are stemming/originate/pertain to I.European family of languages.They have in common humankind mind wich ultimate is at the origin and determining different mental processes and physical actions.
 Révai Miklós Magyar irodalmi régiségek Antiquitates literaturae Hungaricae              Es marada anemberi Ð ket fiaytol » ferietÐl
 megvalt (Ruth 1,5), ’Remansitque mulier orbata duobus liberis suis, ac marito
 suo’  mente ’clamys’                                             A birtokos eset toldaléka a magánhangzóra végződő töveknél a választékosabb használatban a jóhangzás kedvéért szintén j-t kap, mint például:almájé, mentéjé, ollójé, bár sokan keményebben ejtik: almáé, mentéé, ollóé. Ennyit a szabályról.
  A második, rövidebb halotti beszéd
 Scerelmes bratým uımaggomuc ez scegen ember lılkıert. kıt vr ez nopun ez homus vılag tımnucebelevl mente. kınec ez nopun testet temetívc. hug
 ur uvt kegılmehel abraam. ùsaac. iacob kebeleben helhezıe. hug bırsagnop
 ívtva mend vv scentíí es unuttei cuzıcun ıov felevl ıchtotnıa ılezıe vvt. Es
 tıv bennetuc. clamate ııı. Á.
 Szerelmes barátim! vimádjamuk ez szegény ember lelkéért, kit Úr ez napon
 ez hamos világ tömnötzebelől mente, kinek ez napon testét temetjük: hogy Úr
 vőt kegyelméhel, Ábrahám, Izsák, Jákob kebelében helyhezje; hogy, bírságnap jutva, ménd vő Szentei és Önöttei közökön jov felől ioktatnia éleszje vőt.
 És tiv bennetöket. Clamate ter: Kyrie eleison!
Ha zerzendez m¹nket megzabadoitanod (uo., 13,9), ’Si decreveris nos salvare’. me: megzabadoitanod "you get rid of it"

folia uralica debreceniensia 25. - Finnugor Nyelvtudományi ... › fud › fud25 › fud25_2
PDF  4.1.2. идемс ’megvált’, идиця ’megváltó’, идема ’megváltás’
 ● сонъ идисамизь минекъ душманнокъ эйстэ да весе а вечкитсянокъ кедстэ // кучовтозесь идесамизь эсенек вардотнеде ды сетнень кедест алдо, конат кирдить
 кеж минек лангс // что спасет нас от врагов наших и от руки всех ненавидящих
 нас // megmentett minket ellenségeinktől és gyűlölőink kezétől (01:71)
 ● монь оймемъ Идится Пазомъ туртовъ эрьгеди // ды монь оймем кенярды Паздонть, монь Идицядонть // и возрадовался дух Мой о Боге, Спасителе Моем //
 és szívem ujjong megváltó Istenemben (01:47)
 ● тонъ ломатненень максатъ идимадостъ да пежетестъ кадовмадостъ чаркодьме //
 тон кармат сонзэ ломантнень чарькодевтеме идемадо, конась ашти пежетест
 нолдамосо // дать уразуметь народу Его спасение в прощении грехов их // hogy
 az üdvösség ismeretét add népének bűnei bocsánatára (01:77)
 ● монь сельмень неизь ней Тонть ломатнень идиматъ // эдь монь сельметне неизь
 тонь кучовт идеманть // ибо видели очи мои спасение Твое // mert látta szemem
 üdvösségedet (02:30)
 Ld. még: 02:11 (идиця), 03:06 (идема).
 идемс ’выручить, выкупить, спасти, избавить / auslösen, loskaufen,
 freikaufen, retten, erretten, erlösen’ (MdWb 439); ’спасти, выручить’ (ERV
 203); ’megment, kiment’ (EMSz 124); ’pelastaa, vapauttaa’ (ESS 55); идиця
 ’спаситель / erlöser’ (MdWb 441); ’спаситель’ (ERV 203); ’megmentő, megváltó’ (EMSz 124). Az идема az иде- igetőből -ма névszóképzővel alkotott
 főnév. Az идиця participium praesens alak. – Ismeretlen eredetű szó (ESM

O ipoteza de lucru (albaneza); sau “era o vreme cand pentru turmele de oi si ciobani nu erau granite”…

November 23, 2019

A se vedea: › indexing › details › pdf Fenomene dialectale purtate de păstorii ... – Diacronia                                                                                                                            << În lucrarea de faţă, ne propunem să evidenţiem rolul jucat de transhumanţă, … Aceasta a făcut posibil ca populaţiile balcanice (de exemplu, albanezii) să-i….>>



Studiind de mult timp principalele sisteme de scriere (de cca. 12 ani) am realizat ca semnele de pe tablite i-mi sant, mi-au devenit de fapt, foarte familiare. In sensul ca toate semnele de pe toate cele trei tablite se regasesc atat in aria sumeriana cat si in cea Egeeana. Am reusit diferite interpretari in acest sens, apropiindu-ma progresiv de o presupusa si dorita interpretare totala si unitara.                                                                     Din pacate, (desi este totodata stimulator), tablitele au fost un fel de fata morgana, cu imaginea neclara, dar in schimb devenind din ce in ce mai clara.                                                         Desi am constientizat faptul ca pe tablita rotunda am putea avea litere, mult timp am ramas limitat la ideea ca doar jumatatea de sus a tablitei rotunde contine scris adevaratLa o asemenea cantonare si limitare a contribuit faptul ca gandeam ca doar jumatatea de sus contine scris adevarat fiind acoperita (!?).                                                   Nici nu santem siguri ca “scriitorul” a avut in mod cert o asemenea intentie. Interesant este faptul ca nu demult am trecut foarte aproape de aceasta interpretare finala. In alfabetele arhaice grecesti folosite inainte de standardizare, semnul D s-a folosit pentru litera D intr-o parte si pentru litera R in alta parte.

Chiar si in aceasta faza finala a cercetarii mele, sant suficient de modest si sa nu am pretentia de a oferi o interpretare ori citire unica, ultimativa si adevarata. Daca ati observat, in decursul timpului am facut multe sondari, testari, incercari de citire.    ==============================================                                                                  Din

Image result for "archaic greek alphabets"                                                                     ***************************                                                                                                      Daca semnele din jumatatea superioara a tablitei rotunde asa cum par sant in realitate litere (arhaice grecesti):                                                                                                                     H, D     (Heta/Eta-Rho)                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       Din  Moonlight in Romania: The Tărtăria Tablets;                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             si semnele D D o c/u, =R R s/u,                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            din;                                                                                                                                                                                                                       Atunci putem avea: din albaneza:    herë    pronuntie, heră                                                                                 HeRë   RRok, care este:                                                                                                                            Din;                                                    herë, hera: “time”/”timp” ;                                                                                                                      Rrok :  Din                                                   rrok: “snatch, grasp, gripe, grip, catch” =”a smulge, prinde, intelege“, unde grasp, “prinde” are atat in engleza cat si in romana sensul fizic de a prinde,cuprinde, cat si a intelege, deci “intelege timpul“,                                                                                                  Apoi, din; “time to catch up” herë  rrok : “to catch up the time” :” a prinde timpul”                                                                  ————————————————-                                                                                                    Iar daca semnul +++++ este Si (greaca Xi ?).                                                                               Din : Si: “as, like,for, such as”‘ :”pentru”  së:”the”, articolul hotarat;                                                                                                                                                                      iar “here si rrok”:”as/for grasp the time“=”pentru a intelege timpul“, caz in care este vorba de un calendar.                                                                                                                                          Daca semnul +++++ semnifica cifra 50, atunci am putea avea:” a prins timp 50″ (ani), cam cat s-a constatat varsta decedatei a carei oase au fost gasite langa tablite !

Din;                                                    hera se rrok hera se rrok:”more than ever”:”mai mult (timp) ca niciodata” cam tot pe acolo, exprimand oricum o varsta inaintata in trecut/acele timpuri.                                      —————————————————–                                                                                                  In sfertul din stanga-jos,                                                                                                                Din                 Image result for moonlight tartaria     avem semnele:                                       Q,  GG si jos Z. In linear A/B un semn asemanator aceluia “arc cu sageata” era folosit pentru Ko/Ku                                                                                                                                     Din Ku:”where, wherein, whither, wherever, whereabouts”/”unde“,                                                 apoi GG:”geg/GHEG“?                                                                  Zi:”mourning”/”jelire”                                                                                                                    Din;   Ze:”Vox”/”voce”                                                                                                                                   Din;                                      “Ku geg zi“::”that black geg”, de fapt zi nu este nici-un fel de negru, ci jelire                          Ku Gheg Zi :”unde jeleste/este jelit Gheg-ul”?                                                                                  ————————————————-                                                                                                           In sfertul din dreapta jos,                                                                                                             Din;                                                                                                 Avem in semnul din stanga, cladite de sus in jos semnele: E, G, c/K;          E:”of/”din,al”                                                                                                                                      GK: GeK:”gegë  geg”?

Din Gheg Albanian – Wikipedia › wiki › Gheg_Albaniann   <<Gheg Albanian (also spelled Geg Albanian; Gheg Albanian: gegnisht, Standard Albanian: gegë or gegërisht) is one of the two major varieties of Albanian. The other is Tosk on which Standard Albanian is based.>>                                                                            Din

  Image result for albanian "e gegë"

E gek:” de-al lui Gheg. Gugu”                                                                                                                      Din;           e  gegë :”of gege”

Din Fustanella – Eupedia Forum › forum › threads › 25617-Fustanella › page3                                                                                                                       << Albanians were called Arvanite by Greeks in the middle ages. …. 11 geg also gugu in moesia also gygy in lydia comes from achaic gag or aga >>

————————————————————                                                                                             Semnul din dreapta are cladite de sus in jos semnele K. L, D  Ku:”where”/”unde”                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Din  lë :”leave”, “pleaca, paraseste”                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Din;                                                   dhe:”and”/”si”                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Ku le dhe :’si unde pleaca“?                                                                      ;                                         Ku le dhe “”and where let” :”si unde lasi

e gek ku le dhe:” of geg? where let and” :”and where let of geg/gegs” =”si unde lasi de-ai geg-ilor”?                                                                                                                                                  Din;                                                Dhi:”goat”/”capra

Din;            e gek ku le dhi: “of a goat that let go” ? =”unul de-al caprelor/ geg/get/goth care ne lasa/se duce” ??                                                                                                                                     ——————————————————                                                                                                    Acuma se pune problema cine ar fi putut scrie tablitele.  Apar doua ipoteze mari si late: A. Vlassa sau cineva din apropiere                                                                                                    B. Un nativ albanez                                        ===================================================                                                       Pentru prima sansele sant foarte mici, cu toate caVlassa, pare intradevar a fi fost Vlah (Vlassa este o forma a lui Vlah) deoarece:                                                                                         – nu il vad atat de pregatit sa stie sa foloseasca semne asemanatoare cu cele sumeriene si chiar nici altele                                                                                                                                       – tablitele arata a fi efectiv vechi, adica au stat in pamant ani si ani de zile                             – banuiesc ca trebuia sa fi sustinut ca sant facute de daci sau vlahi si nu de sumerieni Pentru a doua ipoteza, ori                                                                                                                        – este vorba de un gen de calendar rural, dar atunci restul textului (cel putin in forma gasita de mine) nu este in concordanta                                                                                            – ori este vorba de o ceremonie funerara, caz in care oasele gasite in imediata proximitate pe de o parte vin sa sustina aceasta ipoteza, iar pe de alta intra in contradictie. Intrucat varsta lor este determinata (C14) la cca. 5.000 B.C., cand nu era nici scriere, nici albanezi, eventual doar o forma de pelasgi.                                 ===============================                                                                                                      La o incercare de apropiere folosind limba greaca, sau alte ramuri I.Europene, se pare ca pot extrage un continut relativ inchegat , dar se schimba partial topica, ramanand se pare un continut religios si sacru, ofranda cu laitmotivul “capra”. De pilda:                             Hera(s); Ed,Ede DiDOU: “ HERA,Doamn(ei) ; Ied/Mananca/sa dai                                           ? H(i)era:” obiecte sacre/parafernalia ?                                                                                               Pentru jumatatea inferioara in stanga, Din literele Q GG Z :                                                          KuG-Ga. KuGa, Kaga ; Za,Ze : “bunic, Stramos”,”ofranda,Sacru“? ; Zeu

Din Indo European Etymology – Scribd › document › Indo-European-Etymology                                                                                                                       << Proto IndoEuropean roots and their derivatives in several … alalkein; elkas, alkas alkaqw; alkar raksati ‘nemus sacrum‘ ‘protecti’, …..kaga ‘dens‘ …>>

Din Dacian Language – Romanian History and Culture › dacianlanguage                                    << KAGA: un important cuvânt dacic -37 kb …… The word καγα occurs twice, in ISM II 36 and in ISM II 138, with the meaning sacrum.>>

Din The Origin of Cuprum, Bakar and Var › old › moambe › Hlebec by B Hlebec                                                                                                                                                      <<. ….. PIE *h2euh2os > Hittite huhhas, Lith. kuga ‘grandfather‘,>>

Din Proto-Indo-European Kinship – jstor › stable   by P Friedrich – ‎1966 – ‎<<kinship from the reconstructed stages of Proto-IndoEuropean (PIE) and. Common Slavic ….. Kurylowicz (1935: 74) has argued that the root began with a Pre-Proto-Indo– …… parent’s father (Hittite huhhas), to the mother’s father (Lycian xuga).>>

Pentru jumatatea inf. dreapta din grupurile de litere E,U,G/E,G,u/s in semnul din stanga si A/E G S in semnul din dreapta:                                                                                                     EGuEGeaS, Aegis. aigis, aigos : “Eu (sant)  Aigai(on),Egeean, (scut, caprari ?

Din A Comprehensive Etymological Dictionary of the Spanish … › books                                                                                                                                                    <<efusivo, va a. effusive; efuso, sa a. effused. égida z egida f. aegis. [L. aegis, aegidis: id. <Gk. aigis: goatskin, a shield of skin <aix, aigos: goat. See *aig– in App.>> . ======================================= 

Am putea avea: HP  R o o/c  =                                                                         EPi RRoo   , unde RR=Rho, “R rotacizat”,                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Din Song of Genesis 1 | Page 2 | Religious Forums › … › << Flowings down a mountain are called streams or rivers in English. … curiosity, what background do you have in linguistics or Biblical studies? … of air ‘, it’s cognate in Gk is ῥόῳ (Rhoo) meaning ‘stream, flow of water, current’ .>>                                             Atentie, avem un gen de liniuta in interiorul primului semn D, o fi un “i“?

EPIRROO, EPIROS, (EPEIROS/ EPIROT) : “pe/peste- Rau” , sau RIVERan/vecin ?                                                                                                                                                                                          Din;Latin Ēpīrus, from Ancient Greek Ἤπειρος (Ḗpeirosmainland)

Din                                                                          From Old Albanian pellëg, borrowed from Ancient Greek πέλαγος (pélagossea)

Din  Basil Chulev Pelasgi/Balasgi, Belasgians (Pelasgians/Pelasgi/Pelasti/Pelišti) – the Archaic Mythical Pelasgo/Stork-people from Macedonia;                                                                                                               <<  Homer also speaks of Epirus as a chief abode
of the Pelasgoi; for Achilles addresses Ze(us) as “Dodonai Pelasgike” (i.e. „Dodonan Pelasgoi‟).11                                                                                                           ………….             They were in Ipeiros (Epirus) too, a land abounding with water brooks, with lovely mountains, and lovelier valleys, and at length settled, and erected themselves lasting habitations in the sacred neighborhood of Dodona, where the first oracle known to history flourished under the protection of the Pelasgian Zeus.      …………..                                   Macedonia, with the important difference that the Middle Bronze period, which in Central Macedonia was characterized by incised ware with Cycladic affinities, was characterized in Chalcidice by Minyan, southern in character, but adapted to local Early Bronze forms as well.

Apropos de stork-people, poporul cocostarc                                                                                   ARDeal:                                                                                                                                                     lat. ARDEA,  Ancient Greek ἐρῳδιός (erōidiós, :”heron”=starc si ARDEUS:                                                                                                                                                                                                      Din A New Universal Etymological and Pronouncing Dictionary of … › books                                                                                         (ardeusLat.) Hot; burning; fiery; fierce; vehement; having the appearance or quality of fire; passionate; affectionate;   loftyhighsteeptallelevated                               “inalt,impadurit”

        ================================================================                     Semnele de pe celelalte tablite sustin si au legatura cu contextul cultic, insa apartin unor perioade si civilizatii extrem de indepartate.Ma refer la cele Egeeana si chiar mai departe la cea mama cea sumeriana.                                     *******************************************

Va intreb acuma, cum este posibil ca atatia savanti de renume, din toate domeniile de la proto-scriere, ma refer la scrierea proto-cuneiforma, pana la lingvisti si arheologi s-au lasat pacaliti cu asa-zise semne sumeriene ? Bqa mai mult, majoritatea nici nu au putut macar demonstra de o maniera convingatoare ca este vorba de scriere, ramanand agatati in aer in spatiul magic al proto-scrierii. De ce? pentru ca s-au lasat pacaliti de presupusa gasire a tablitelor intr-unul din straturile Vinca A/C si de varsta unor oase la cca. 5.300 B.C. Felicitari D-le Marco Merlini si dragi cercetatori si arheologi romani !

Common traits in the very beginning of writing

November 22, 2018

Some other scientists found that one particular pictogram was used in different places in writing .Quite slightly different in shape. It is about the eye. But every scientist showed mainly symilar eye-shapes for only twoo different places. I discovered that there was an much extended phenomenom. I will show you more than 4-5 places in the world. The explanation I’ve found is the fact that humans have the same physical body, and nervous system (read basic way of thinking).

But there was another pictogram used in the same semantic field, the fish. There is no other simple connection for humans for the idea of light other than eye. Light is entering in us through eyes.Close yes and have no light. Eye-light is kind of short-cut between, eliminating every word or philosophy upon.

It is true, light is coming mainly from Sun, but if you figure sun thinking possible turn in first time to celestial star and the light is only 2-nd, close-associated.

I discovered that it seems that the eye-shape was used for logograms and phonemes for light. I suppose the fish-shape was used for bright-light or “bright,shining”.

I will show you some 6 exemples:

A (1). Vinca-culture.So many statuettes with the eyes depicted as letter D with, or without eye-lashes. My personal suppozition, (expressed one year before) was that upon if the sign has an associated meaning that was the light, whatever sounded. For “shiny-bright” they used fish. Vinca-culture 6.000-4.000 B.C. Image, from Neolithic Vinca Terracotta Human/Bison Head – Ancient Art & Antiquities

Image, from

The fish was for the idea of bright (bright, shiny-God), the same to identical later sumerian Oanes and old hebrew Dagon ( dag was for fish). Vinca-culture, Bel Brdo 6.000 B.C. See, from


Imagini pentru fish-god Bronze AgeThe god Dagon first appears in extant records about 2500 BC in the Mari texts and in personal Amorite names in which the Mesopotamian gods Ilu (Ēl), Dagan, and Adad are especially common. (my note, phoenician Dagon, hebrew Dagan)

B(2) Jiahu writing

                                                                                                                                                  From;                                           Here’s a collection of 目 (eye) characters in the oracle script:


.T “the former qualification, in subsequent periods used to denote
the distribution of above all rations to dependent workers and animals, seems best translated in archaic
sources with ‘inspected’ (‘and found to be available’, pictogram “eye”), roughly corresponding to later Sumerian gub or gal, or possibly gurum (IGI+GAR). 10 ” My note:probable reffering to sign IGI?

“The Sumerian noun is typically a one or two syllable root (igi “eye, e2 …”

Imagini pentru proto-cuneiform sumerian                                                                                                      From SUMERIAN PROTO-CUNEIFORM SIGN LIST;                                   Proto-cuneiform sign Di:                                                                                                                                                                                                                           From:  New Indology: Sumerian and Indo-European: a surprising connection                

B(2) Indus script From

C(3) Hieroglyphic Cretan ?Do/Du”?                                           

Hierogliphyc Cretan, sign No.005 From

Note: Unknown rendering

Linear A. From

The major obstacle here is the missing phonetic value for Linear A *301 (the ‘slave’ or ‘acrobat’ sign). Since it is not an easy task to find the missing value (more on this in a later post), we have almost no clue of the meaning of this word. Unless we make a bold move and substitute a fitting Etruscan-Lemnian stem here. The best (given the context, and the rare *AI diphtongal cluster) appears to be the etruscan word-stem *AIS = “God, Divinity”. If so, the value for *301 needs to be of either the S- or the Z-series (perhaps *ZU). Notwithstanding, the reading for a libation text beginning with ‘This/The god…’ appears incorrect. Therefore we have to assume that whatever A-I-*301-… meant, was more of a “divine gift” or “divine sacrifice” than being simply ‘god’ or ‘gods’.

Image from The most peculiar Minoan sign ever seen

My note. Close to egyptian eye !! “the eye of Horus”

Linear B, sign “Zu?” From Richard Wallance’s blog,

Me: yes, “Zu” as P.I.E.-root “Di”>DIas/Zeu,Zou,Zu,Zeus:”light”

From  Documents in Minoan, Luwian, Semitic and Pelasgian  Fred Woudhuizen file:///C:/Users/User/Downloads/Documents_in_Minoan_Luwian_Semitic_and_P.pdf     

“In their table of comparisons, Olivier & Godart plausibly propose the correspondence of CHIC038 “gate” to L32 ya, CHIC092 “horn” to L55 ru, and CHIC005 eye to L101 zu.”
49 ……………                                                                                                                                       “This inference is further emphasized by the fact that the Cretan hieroglyphic “eye” sign is more remotely related to Luwian hieroglyphic *191, which depicts three pairs of eyes in a row and stands for the all-seeing sun-god, TIWATA, ti6—thus leading us to the syllabic value ti6 according to the acrophonic principle.56 “

ETEOCRETAN. What? Why !? What have to do with our tablets?

April 21, 2018

  1. Here is not the place nor wasting your time explaining what is ETEOCRETAN                                2. Out of my intention to bother you or get to in a much complex situation. From :                 The sibilants                                                                                                                       Greek also did not have the range of sibilant consonants that the Semitic languages had, and the use and naming of these consonants shows confusion on the part of the Greeks. The old Phoenician alphabet has four sibilants:
    1. zai zeta whose sound was /z/. It was used from the start to represent a sound which varied in the Greek dialects thus: [dd] ~ [zd] ~ [zz] (see ‘Phonemic Values of Archaic Letters‘ below).
    2. semk semk whose sound was /s/. It is found in some of the archaic alphabets as an alternative way of writing zeta. It was later used in eastern Ionian alphabets to denote /ks/, but this usage is not attested in any of the archaic alphabets nor known in the alphabets of the western Greeks. The letter occurs in the Praisos #1 inscription and is discussed in the next two sections below.

      Phonemic Values of Archaic Letters                                            zai (zeta): the sound denoted by this symbol seems to have varied in different Greek dialects. Some instances of classical ζ derive from earlier /sd/, e.g. ἵζω (hizo) “I seat” ← *si-sd-ō (cf. Latin: sīdō). The majority of cases, however, derive from a earlier */dj/, */gj/ suggesting that sound denoted by ‘z’ in transcriptions of Mycenaean Linear B was /dj/ or an affricate such as [ʤ] or [ʣ]. It would seem, however, that in the archaic and classical periods, by a process of assimilation or metathesis, the sound varied in the dialects between [dd], [zd] and [zz] with the latter becoming the norm by the Hellenistic period and giving way eventually to the modern Greek [z].                     

      In Cretan Greek [dd] was the norm and the spelling δδ is also found. But there appears to have been a tendency in Crete to devoice this combination as ττ is also found for standard Greek ζ; indeed, we also occassionally find actual /tt/ spelled ζ.

      For the above, see: M. Lejeune, Phonétique historique du Mycénien et du Grec ancien, Paris, 1972, pp112 sqq.; W.S. Allen, Vox Graeca, Cambridge UK, 1968, pp. 53 sqq.; C.D. Buck, The Greek Dialects, Chicago, 1955, p. 71 sq., and pp. 313 sqq. However, the letter zeta does not occur in any of the extant Eteocretan texts, so it may not directly concern us here, unless….

    3. semksemk is found on Praisos #1. As stated above, we can discount the value /ks/ given to this symbol by the Ionians. It would be a gross anachronism to find it used this way in a late 7th century or early 6th century inscription from Crete. There are only two credible possibilities:
      • As in some other local scripts, it is merely used as a variant of zeta and, therefore, presumably denotes either /dd/ or /tt/.
      • It really is semk and is being used to represent a sibilant not known in contemporary Greek. The clear presence of Ϝσ (ws)on Praisos #3 may indicate that Eteocretan possessed a labialized sibilant []].                         —————————————————————————————————-     That’s why, out of +++++ DDoo signs we could have: []…                                     1. Syrroo>syrrou :” of Syros,Syrian” as Hera Syrou:”Lady of Syros,or Syrian Lady”.Apropos of “Syrian Lady” this could be begining (sory about large time-ecart) one from A-SA-SA-RA to “Syrian woman” from Bible book wich supposed brought Christianism in Europe.                                   2. even Su(“your”) DDoo>DDou=DZOU. So to have not “kind of tetragrammaton” but TETRAGRAMMATON in 4 letters D D O O.        That’s why when get a string through both tablets (superpose holes ) the squared table cover the upper half text (fact noticed by Mr.Marco Merlini).So  the sacred name is hidden!
      • And we could have as entire half of the round tablet:
      • Image result for archaic letter eta chethHistory of the letter h. The letter H may have started as a picture sign of a fence, as in very early Semitic writing used about 1500 BCE on the Sinai Peninsula (1). About 1000 BCE, in Byblos and other Phoenician and Canaanite centres, the sign was given a linear form (2), the source of all later forms. The sign was called cheth in the Semitic languages, which may have meant “fence.” The sound expressed by the cheth sign stood for a pharyngeal sound which is not found in the English language. The Greeks renamed the sign eta and used it in two functions—first for the consonant h and then for the long vowel e (3). The Romans took over the form H (4), with the sound value of the English h.
      • HP/HD? (Heta,consonant eta!/Eta)-Rho;     DDOO:                                                EDE DiDou! :”GIVE(us) EAT
      • HEROS,(Hera?) DiDou! :”LORD(Lady?) GIVE US(..daily bread) (the root
      • Note:*hed is common for edo,”I eat” ede!:”eat!” edible etc. and alb.Ed lat.ede:”kid-goat!” hedus, gr. hedus pleasant,sweet)                           or:
      • ……………….and now you see,understand why I took your time.Also hope understand  my obstination to use “our (Balkan)signs” not “their (sumerian) signs” 
      • Also you have kind of gift, as to see, 

        derive from a earlier */dj/, */gj/ suggesting that sound denoted by ‘z’ in transcriptions of Mycenaean Linear B was /dj/ or an affricate such as [ʤ]

      •  How the VERY INDO-EUROPEAN ROOT Di=”light” was transmited through time in the name of GOD                                                                                                                                              ———————————————————————————————-Ariel D.T. Stamped Amphora Handles from Tel Mikhal (Tel Michal ……/Ariel_D.T._Stamped_Amphora_Handles_from_Tel_Mikhal_T&#8230;

         I know of no attempt at determining an A significant number of stamps with an etarho internal chronology for this prolific fabricant, ligature have been published. … of similar—but circular—stamps as Samian, 1990:42, S96, 99–101). and maintained that the monogram stood for Hera or her sanctuary.

        The Temple of Apollo Bassitas: The architecture

        Frederick A. Cooper – 1992 – ‎Architecture

        heta-rho as B P, or Ionic etarho as HP. The distinction between long epsilon and eta is not to be taken as a chronological indicator but as a geographical one. The combined letters must then represent a word or name, irjp ,25 because there is no suitable ordinal or word denoting position. Hera or hero are possibilities, .

        Table of archaic Cretan alphabet of Dreros and Praisos

        Semitic name ᾽alf bēt gaml delt wau zai ḥēt ṭēt jōd kaf
        Archaic Cretan
        alpha beta early gammalater gamma deltaalternative delta epsilon digamma zeta, (semk) eta theta early iotalater iota kappa
        Standard Greek
        α β γ δ ε ϝ ζ η θ ι κ
        Modern Roman
        a b g d e w z ē i k
        Semitic name lamd mēm nūn semk ῾ain ṣādē qōf rōš šīn tau (wau)
        Archaic Cretan
        lamba mu nu semk o pi san (not
        rho (not
        tau early ulater u
        Standard Greek
        λ μ ν ζ? ο π σ ρ τ υ
        Modern Roman
        l m n z? o p s r t u
      • Note                                                                                                                          Till nowdays the Di particle in the name of God scarcely remained as  “DD” :                                                                                                                         In sicilian, From: Complete List of Keywords › Proverbs › ProvKeyWds  Ddiu n.m. God. Also: Diu. Ddò n.m. title, honorific
      • From › books
        Pasquale Scialò, Francesca Seller, Anthony R. DelDonna · 2015 · Music
        Furthermore, the word “dio” is pronounced [ ddìo]; “dio” also doubles in Neapolitan. ... indicate something significant while avoiding mention of the name of God), “Ddio” (God


April 11, 2018

There are many questions wich allmost remained without responce:                                                    -It is writing, of wich kind?                                                                                                                  -It is proto-writing or writing; if writing,wich kind?                                                                       -What is the period of time in wich were made?                                                                            -Who was the supposed writer?                                                                                                          -To wich culture partained tablets and he or her?                                                                          -Are tablets real or fakes?                                                                                                                    -Why no scientist engaged in close research and give strait answers?                          ………….An other (more than ten)  questions.

Read more:                                                                                    The Danubian Neolithical cultures that makes the so-called Dabunian Civilisation (Vinca-Turdaș, Criș, Hamangia, Cucuteni, Gumelnița, Boian etc) were in fact the offsprings of migrations from Anatolia and Fertile Crescent toward Europe of early agricultors and the Vinca-Turdaș script, while the oldest system of writing in the world, didn’t developed in a large scale practice, there are no more than some hundreds discoveries of pottery shards and other pieces bearing (usually only one) such signs and the society wasn’t yet highly structured and hierarchized like the Sumerian one.                                                                                                                                And perhaps more important, the Vinca-Turdaș script was an isolated phenomenon, it disappeared with the end of this material culture (with some echos perhaps in the later Cucuteni culture).

From; :                           Sa nu ma atacati inainte de a trece o noapte.                                                                              Nu stiu exact cum s-a intamplat, insa doar oasele au fost datate cu C14.Rezultatul este ca 99% din cercetatorii din lume stiu ca tablitele au fost datate.In consecinta,toti acestia iau de buna varsta de 5200 BC.Mai rau este ca toti incep sa-si modifice teoriile legate de neoliticul European si despre istoria Scrisului.                                                                Varsta aceasta poate sau nu fi adevarata.                                                                                Insa toti ar trebui sa stie ca nu tablitele au fost datate ci numai oasele! In (forensic science) criminalistica vasta unui obiect nu se translateaza ca fiind aceeasi cu varsta unui alt obiect,chiar aflat in imediata vecinatate! Dupa cate am inteles in arheologie cand se poate cand nu, de cele mai multe ori da.Nu uitati ca in situl arheologic a fost haloimesul de pe lume.Nu s-a lucrat cf. tehnicilor actuale.asa daca ne gandim puteau pica din zeci de cm de mai sus.(Unii zic ca se lucra “la norma” si posibil Vlassa a luat tablitele din miile de obecte de-a lui Szofia Torma)Nimeni in lume si nicaieri nu a luat cineva vre-un pix in mana (cuneus) inainte de 3200-3500 BC.Nici macar ca sa faca tablite pictografice, darmite cu semne!                                                                                         Cu respect, ing. Eugen Rau Timisoara

I not agree the folowing!:The Hittites Quote:

Originally Posted by CARPATHIAN

The European population of Turdaș-Vinča culture discovered the writing and the metallurgy for the first time in human history and brought these discoveries to Mesopotamia where the Vinča Script was developed into the Cuneiform Script and the Sumerian culture has reached higher levels of development because of the hierarchization of society that brought the possibility of erecting imposing temples and cities.     ———————————————————————————————————–

regarding tablet’s age: So many questions

Radiocarbon dating – is it applicable to clay? Where are the tablets now? —Ghirla-трёп- 04:13, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

No, it isn’t. Radiocarbon dating may only be applied to organic artifacts. The original Tartaria tablets were of dried, unbaked clay. The Romanian scientists baked them in an oven, to avoid their decay, but any subsequent dating by thermoluminescence (which is the usual method for the age determnation of ceramic artifacts) became impossible.–Mazarin07(talk) 23:38, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

The radio-carbon dating was performed not on the tablets themselves but on the bones with which they were found and with which they are presumed to have been buried. The article’s (currently) second external link is to a report dated 2004 of an investigation of the bones, tablets etc that dates the bones to a calibrated r-c span of 5370-5140BC. Incidentally, that report also corrects several of the original excavator’s incorrect assumptions which the article currently still contains. For example, the bones were not burnt, and are of an elderly female, not a male. I leave it to someone with more wiki-fu to study the report and update the article. (talk) 13:37, 4 November 2008 (UTC)                                                                                                                                               ——————————————————————————————————————————-       To have the quickest possible responce to above questions, and have proper understanding, I will begin with the most important aspect,out of all others:                     – For a college (or above) level wiewer (no counting here scientists) something is shocking or striking :                                                                                                                              -There are three tablets wich normally distanced in time one of another 500-1000 years; could be showed and given to average cultural level people as kind of exemples for some of main  steps/stages by wich evolved the writing:

1-tartaria-tablets-spoza                                                                                          (Periods of time are as raw refference)                                                                                               1-Iconic stage,usually as before 3.500 B.C.                                                                                         2-Proto-hierogliphic stage as between 3500(east)-2200(west) B.C.                                             –Hierogliphic  stage between 3.000(east)-2000(west) B.C.                                                             3 –Syllabary, alphabetic stage between 2500(est)-1.500(west) B.C.                                                 One writer cannot know well all three systems of writing, but even so, cannot live in all above period/span of time.                                                                                                                         So there are only three explanations:                                                                                           1.-the tablets are not related one with another                                                                               2.-the tablets are fakes                                                                                                                       3–the tablets are made in later times (B.C.),by somebody who knew proper writing and also knew some-how ( kind of cultural transmission) some older signs and icons and some ideas/recollection of theyr meaning. He/her made another twoo as kind of school to stress the ancestor’s esteem and/or show how predecessors wrote.                                                                           I am inclined to support the last hypothesis.                                                                                  ————————————————————————————-                                                      Some twelve years before, I saw for the first time the tablets pictures.After got knoledge  of writing landscape and evolving, after 24 hrs. only I remained with the strong impression that on the round tablet we have signs as letters.     I recognised many signs wich were used as letters in archaic greek alphabets.Despite this. I cannot identify all signs as letters in 100% proportion in any alphabet.Highest percentage in identifying work had carian folowed by old greek and iberian alphabets. Even for some years i had (and have) a reading upon archaic greek alphabets.Here I had the support of eteocretan alphabet and writing.later, one month before I could find all the signs of both written tablets (out of pictographic) using sumerian signs. Also I could use of cretan hierogliphic,Linear A/B signs for both tablets but encountered some difficulties (2 signs:bow+arrow and >>) at that round-one. I am not counting those hierogliphic-like,complex signs wich can be icons but as well ligatured letters. these very icons had the prime effect that one to keep scientists at distance because are also vave a mysterius appearance. In my understanding, Linear A/B begun in Aegean area and there also finished there.No gain large acceptance and not known or extended in Europe and other areas. After that, begun to be known better in Europe phoinikeia grammata “phoenician letters” with followers old hebrew and greek alphabet.                                     But in the European people’s and cultural turmoil , different peoples addapted and gave their own and quite/slight different use of those signs.                                       ————————————————————————————————-                                                     Very interesting, I saw one month before old runic Bulgarian alphabet and realised that I have many of signs there.But not gave proper attention.Taking account that there are some related issues between gothic,nordic and Balcan(Blugarian) areas, I realised that there were contacts between those cultures wich continued till christianism full emerged in Europe. See:                                                                                                        From Scandinavia and the Balkans: Cultural Interactions with Byzantium … Minaeva, ‎Lena Holmquist        “The solar sign in the inscription also possesses the magical meaning of the character. In greek papyrus texts,it is a planetary symbol and denotes various vocalisations from the greek alphabet:usually H or T. ….In papyrus texts,the moon is also presented

This once again highlights the relationship between the discussed monument and Gothic literary culture discovered in present-day Bulgaria.47 The solar sign in the … 8 of the treasure from Nagyszentmiklós, which is dedicated to the complex nature of the Christian God according to Gnostic Christian views of Middle Eastern …”

ould be kind of contact between Cycladic  Keros/Syros population and early “Servos” from near-by Serres.

From site:

bulgar_runic_letters-1                                              ———————————————————————————————————————————-       Even if I would  begin such an attempt, another obstacle want to block my optimismus:    The artefacts found near-by at the archeological site. Artefacts that wanting to speak that something is related to Aegean and specific to Cyclades area (don’t ask me why but my mind was focussed by the center of Cyclades, Keros-Syros islands):                                           -one Spondyllus-shell bracelet                                                                                                           -one figurine/statuettes made in Cyclades style                                                                             -one alabaster footed-pot  also in perfect cycladic style. Not to mention that in Aegean/Greek aereas were found hundred of tablets with proper writing, Linear A/B or archaic greek, in our area (Bulgaria-Serbia-Macedonia) a few written tablets , around or above  five (e.g. Ezerovo ring-supposed thracian but no one  clear read or deciphered)                          ———————————————————————————————-



Letters Heta/Eta-Rho :”HeRo,HeRa,HaR,Haro”=Hero,Lady,Charm,Death

Upper-Right Sign +++++ is +++ ?  From;                    Values of the vowels                                                                                                                         As for long and short vowels, only /e/ could have separate symbols for the two quantities, namely eta for “long e” and epsilon for “short e”. In fact in Greek spelling it was not even as simple as that. Ancient Greek had two “long e” sounds: low-mid [ɛː] and high-mid [eː]. In Greek eta denoted only the long low-mid sound; epsilon had to do duty for both the short sound and the long high-mid sound (until ει (ei) came to be used to denote /eː/ in the 5th century BCE). We see this in the Cretan Greek inscriptions from Dreros. Whether Eteocretan used similar spelling conventions or whether epsilon was always short, we have no way of knowing; all we can safely assume is that eta is always long.                                                                                                          Values of consonants                                                                                                                    The consonants, for the most part, denoted the same phonemes as those denoted in the International Phonetic Alphabet by the Roman transcription shown in the table above; the only two exceptions are:                                                                                              1.zai (zeta): the sound denoted by this symbol seems to have varied in different Greek dialects. Some instances of classical ζ derive from earlier /sd/, e.g. ἵζω (hizo) “I seat” ← *si-sd-ō (cf. Latin: sīdō). The majority of cases, however, derive from a earlier */dj/, */gj/ suggesting that sound denoted by ‘z’ in transcriptions of Mycenaean Linear B was /dj/ or an affricate such as [ʤ] or [ʣ]. It would seem, however, that in the archaic and classical periods, by a process of assimilation or metathesis, the sound varied in the dialects between [dd], [zd] and [zz] with the latter becoming the norm by the Hellenistic period and giving way eventually to the modern Greek [z].
In Cretan Greek [dd] was the norm and the spelling δδ is also found.                        2.semksemk is found on Praisos #1. As stated above, we can discount the value /ks/ given to this symbol by the Ionians. It would be a gross anachronism to find it used this way in a late 7th century or early 6th century inscription from Crete. There are only two credible possibilities:                                                                                                                            As in some other local scripts, it is merely used as a variant of zeta and, therefore, presumably denotes either /dd/ or /tt/.                                                                                              It really is semk and is being used to represent a sibilant not known in contemporary Greek. The clear presence of Ϝσ (ws)on Praisos #3 may indicate that Eteocretan possessed a labialized sibilant []].

Upper-Right quarter,signs:                                                                                                          +++++                                                                                                                                              (i?)D(i?) D o o                                                                                                                                           Letters:                                             Se?Su?                                                                                                                                                    ( i)R(i) R o o

Reading: Surroo=Surrou Seirroo>Seirrou ;seiroo>seirrou                                                      Such stars astronomers call seirious on account of the tremulous motion of their light;…….so that it would seem that the word, in its forms seir, seiros, and seirios, —  Suidas used all three for both sun and star, — originally was employed to indicate any bright and sparkling heavenly object, but in the course of time became a proper name for this brightest of all the stars.

From Hermes Scythicus Or the Radical Affinities of the Greek and Latin …;    … “Syr, or Seir,” he adds, “which the Persians “employed to denominate the sun, seems to be “ the same with Thor, only in a different dialect. “The ancient people of the north … › Archive › sci.lang › 2004-07Cached
13 Jul 2004 – be understood as the sun, shining on the male head or king and the ear of grain  The peculiar name Seyr for Zeus may have a correspondence in the Hittite  well worthy of Zeus, who was the supreme Greek god already in ..…/message/8177?o=1… – United StatesCached
You +1’d this publicly. Undo
25 Aug 2001 – Please respond to the idea that “Seir = Sun“…. that’s all I really  Sirius was the name of the dog that accompanied the Greek Hero > Orion!

6. eugenrau;    Posted 28 October 2012 – 00:21                                                                                                     seir=seiros=xeros=ca si xerox=rom/uscator; en./schorcherer=a fost aplicat in vechime atat pentru soare cat si pentru sirius seira:”cordrope

From Queen of heaven (antiquity) – Wikipedia;                                Queen of Heaven was a title given to a number of ancient sky goddesses worshipped throughout the ancient Mediterranean and Near East during ancient times. Goddesses known to have been referred to by the title include Inanna, Anat, Isis, Astarte, Hera, and possibly Asherah (by the prophet Jeremiah). In Greco-Roman …

So,possible:                                                                                                                                       Hera          Sun(Zeus)                                                                                                                      Hero          Sirius(Osiris)           >> pre-Christ.?                                                                           Hera       Syrrou (lady from Syria/Syros?)   …..there’are saying in Bible that christianism was brought by a Syrian woman                                                                                                HaR         Seirrou   chord of Charm (Har<>charis)                                                                        chord/rope of <=>of Sun/Sirius/Hera

seir<!>seira ; thrac.syros:”pit”(osiris burial/rebirth?)


Note: “rr” is for “rho” and “oo” used before-time changed to “ou” and in some cases “omega” ; rroo=rhou (rom.rau=river):”flow,course” from v.”rheo” (could be also Hora rrou=”flow oftime)

Reconstruction:Proto-Indo-European/sóh₂wl̥ – Wiktionaryóh₂wl̥

 This Proto-IndoEuropean entry contains reconstructed words and roots. As such, the term(s) in this entry are … Ancient Greek: ἥλιος (hḗlios). Doric Greek: αέλιος (aélios) … Sanskrit: स्वर् (svàr, “sun,sunlight”), सूर्य (sūrya, “sunSun deity”) (< *suh₂l-)
From ZOULIANAZOUTOLAKKO – ZONIANA       In this way Zas (Zeus) became both the founder and godfather of the village. When he died, he was buried there and from his tomb, his pit which is a synonym of his grave, the place was named “Zou’s Pit” (“Zeu’s Pit’’), in other words Zou’s (Zeus) grave. For instance a common phrase in Greek used when someone is at death’s door is that ‘He/she has one foot in the grave’ or when someone is already dead that ‘He/she has filled one’s pit’.  Soon enough this name prevailed and until the second decade of the 19th century it was named “Zou’s Pit’ (Tou Zou to Lakko) and that is how Zouliana was named and still is the afore-mentioned neighbourhood. In this way it becomes clear that both names ZOULIANA and ZOYTOLAKKO derive from ZA which is one of the numerous names of ZEUS; among other names he was called Zeus, Dias, Zas, Zis, Zan, Dan, Tan, etc. Today the village is named Zoniana which name also derives from Zeus as we will find out. The village’s inhabitants, the so-called Zoulakkianoi or Zoulakkites, when they wanted to say: “Oh my God” (as we say today) or “Listen to me God”, they used to say: “Zone God” (Zone Thee) or “Listen to me Zone God” (Listen to me Zone Thee). Only Zoulakkianoi used this kind of appeal to address God. The inhabitants of Anogeia used to say: “Zane God” (Zane Thee