Archive for November, 2020

Etimologia cuvantului maghiar MENTENI

November 27, 2020

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Hungarian_language#:~:text=Hungarian%20is%20a%20Uralic%20language,languages%20during%20the%20Bronze%20Age. <<Maghiară este o limbă uralică a grupului Ugric . A fost vorbită în regiunea Ungariei moderne dela cucerirea maghiară a bazinului Carpatic la sfârșitul secolului al IX-lea.

Limba ancestrală a maghiarilor s-a separat probabil de limbile ob-ugrice în epoca bronzului . Nu există atestare pentru o perioadă de aproape două milenii. Înregistrările în limba maghiară veche încep fragmentar în epigrafie în scrierea maghiară veche începând cu secolul al X-lea; cuvintele maghiare izolate sunt atestate în tradiția manuscrisă de la începutul secolului al XI-lea. Cel mai vechi text coerent care a supraviețuit în limba maghiară veche este Predica și rugăciunea funerară , datată din 1192.

Perioada maghiară veche se spune, prin convenție, că acoperă Ungaria medievală , de la invazia inițială a Panoniei în 896 d.Hr., până la prăbușirea Regatului Ungariei după bătălia de la Mohács din 1526. >> =========================

Doar pornesc de la acest cuvant pentru ca asa apare in dictionarul romanesc ca etimologia cuvantului mantuire vine din magh. menteni. Din https://dexonline.ro/definitie/mantuire MÂNTUÍ, (1, 4mấntui, (2, 3mântuiesc, vb. IV. Tranz. și refl. 1. (Pop.) A (se) salva….. etc. – Din magh. menteni.

Se pare ca cel care a dat aceasta etimologie a tratat cu superficialitate acest lucru, in maghiara existand un grup de cuvinte cu radacina ment, si chiar daca voia sa sustina ceva asemanator, nu a gasit cel mai potrivit cuvant in sustinerea acestei asertiuni.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/menteni menteni infinitive of ment https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/ment#Hungarian ment Etymology 1From the obsolete verb menik (“to flee”) + -t (causative suffix). Verb ment (transitiveto rescue, to save

https://dictzone.com/dictionar-maghiar-roman/mentes mentés : ” salvare ”

Exista numai doua posibilitati mari si late, cuvantul provine din fondul limbilor Indo-Europene, apartinand bazinului de populatie Indo-Europeana in care au intrat (ex iliric) sau din fondul lingvistic Uralic/altaic/fino-ugric.

Pentru ca daca vine dinafara familiei IE nu inseamna ca nu ar putea veni din maghiara dar daca in maghiara vine din familia IE atunci este mai sigur ca nu vine din maghiara si ambele ar putea veni din familia IE.

Dupa unul din monstrii sacri mondiali ai lingvisticii, Sergey Starostin: Uralic etymology https://www.bulgari-istoria-2010.com/Rechnici/Uralic%20etymology.pdf la fel aici: https://starling.rinet.ru/cgi-bin/response.cgi?root=config&morpho=0&basename=%5Cdata%5Curalic%5Curalet&first=521

Number: 542
Proto: *mene

Nostratic:
English meaning: to go
German meaning: gehen
Finnish: mene-, dial. mäne- ‘gehen’
Estonian: mineSaam (Lapp): ma^nna^- -n- (N) ‘go,
journey, travel’, manna- (L), manni̊-
(T), mønne- (Kld. Not.), mønnø- (A)
Mari (Cheremis): mie- (KB U), mije-
(B) ‘kommen, gehen, besuchen’
Udmurt (Votyak): mi̮n- (S), mǝ̑n- (K),
mị̑̑nị̑̑- (G) ‘gehen’ Komi (Zyrian): mun- (S P PO) ‘gehen,
fahren’
Khanty (Ostyak): mĕn- (V DN), mȧ̙̆n-
(O) ‘gehen, weggehen’
Mansi (Vogul): miń- (TJ), min- (KU P
So.) ‘gehen’
Hungarian: mën Nenets (Yurak): ḿiń- (O) ‘gehen’
Nganasan (Tawgi): mende Selkup: mentétja- (Ta.), menda- (Ke.)
‘vorübergehen’, männempa- (Ty.)
‘vorübergehen’, mäntēja- (Ty.)
vorbeigehen’, mänti- (Tur.)
Kamass: mǝnJanhunen’s version: (55) *meniSammalahti’s version: *meniAddenda: Mot. мынгаемъ ‘отхожу’; En
Yukaghir parallels: män- ‘springen’

Number: 535
Proto: *mänV
English meaning: to become free,
released
(“a deveni liber,eliberat”)
German meaning: loswerden, sich retten
Saam (Lapp): mænno- -ǣn- (N) ‘get the bad habit of trying to evade the
lasso (of reindeer), become shy of being touched’ ?
Mordovian: meńe-, mińi- (E), mäńe-(M) ‘ausweichen, entlaufen, los
werden’
Komi (Zyrian): mi̮n- (S) ‘sich befreien, sich retten’, møn- (PO) ‘sich
losreißen’, mi̮nti̮- (S), mi̮nt- (P)’bezahlen’ Hungarian: ment- ‘retten, befreien; entschuldigen’, meneked- ‘fliehen,
sich retten, entkommen’, ment ‘frei, befreit’
Nenets (Yurak): ḿinaruj (OP) ‘fetter Rentierochs, der nicht zum Zugrentier
abgerichtet ist’ ( > Komi I menurej ‘неприрученный кастрат старше 4-5
лет’) ?

Acum, cu toate scuzele de rigoare, eu cred ca hung. ment nu vine din ProtoU. *mänV (“a deveni liber,eliberat”), ci vine din Proto Uralic: *mene (“merge”) > > hung. mën (“merge”), ba chiar fix din Proto U: *mene > [vorbeigehen'(“trece”), mänti- (Tur.)]……dar in maghiara mente inseamna tot engl. “mind” rom.”minte”.

Si aici avem o problema cat casa pentru ca ar insemna ca mentuire/mantuire provine din radacina I.E. men:”minte” iar magh. mente vine din familia altaica/Turca ( mänti) inseamnand in maghiara tot “minte”

Am mai gasit, dar urmeaza sa vad in ce context, archive.org › stream › bub_gb_Cno… Rezultate de pe web Full text of “Etruscan researches;” – Internet Archive We shall presently be in a position to investigate the etymology of these names, and it will be shown that the … Hungarian . MENT heaven.

Nota; eu nu stiu de hung. ment “cer”

Nu prea inteleg ce rost are sa vedem salvare in maghiara cand noi cautam echivalentul pentru mantuire.

https://ro.glosbe.com/ro/hu/m%C3%A2ntuire mantuire :“megváltás,
üdvözülés”

Altfel acolo unde ar trebui sa apara mantuire, apare in Tatal Nostru maghiar :https://everything2.com/title/The+Lord%2527s+Prayer%253A+Hungarian “de szabadíts meg a gonosztól.”=”si elibereaza-ne de cel rau” (szabad:”liber”, szabadits;”eliberare

Daca voiau sa scrie elibereaza-ne de cel rau, de ce nu au folosit ceva cu ment-… particula care inseamna salvare, eliberare dar in schimb ne acuza ca ca l-am folosit noi ? Curios nu, ca in loc sa foloseasca un cuvant care inseamna salvare si eliberare au folosit unul cu semnificatii mai restranse (numai eliberare). ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~` https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Funeral_Sermon_and_Prayer The prayer

Scerelmes bratym uimagg(om)uc ez ſcegin ember lilki ert.
kit vr ez nopun ez homuſ világ timnucebelevl mente.
kinec ez nopun teſtet tumetivc. hug ur uvt kegilmehel
abraam. yſaac. iacob. kebeleben belhezie: hug birſagnop
ivtva mend vv ſcentii ef unuttei cuzicun iov
felevl iochtotnia ilezie vvt. Eſ tivbennetuc. clamate iii. k[yrie eleison].
    https://www.babelmatrix.org/works/hu/Nyelveml%C3%A9kek/Halotti_besz%C3%A9d_%C3%A9s_k%C3%B6ny%C3%B6rg%C3%A9s_%281192%E2%80%931195_k%C3%B6z%C3%B6tt%29 Halotti beszéd és könyörgés (1192–1195 között) (Hungarian) Funeral oration (cca. 1200) (English)
"Ës szobodohha ut ürdüng ildetüitul ës pukul
kínzatujátúl"= "Set him free from the Devil and the tortures of Hell,"

https://www.babelmatrix.org/works/hu/Nyelveml%C3%A9kek/Halotti_besz%C3%A9d_%C3%A9s_k%C3%B6ny%C3%B6rg%C3%A9s_%281192%E2%80%931195_k%C3%B6z%C3%B6tt%29  
"Ës vimádjok szent Pétër urat,kinek adot hatalm oudania ës këtnië, hogy oudja mënd
u bunét!">> "We ask St Peter, to whom God gave the power
To bind and unbind,To deliver this man from all his sins."
modernhungarian:https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?43338-Has-Hungarian-changed-much-during-the-last-1200-years " Old Hungarian:"Ës vimádjok szent Pétër urat, kinek adot hatalm oudania ës këtnië, hogy oudja mënd ű bűnét!"                Modern hungarian:  " És imádjuk Szent Péter urat, akinek ad[at]ott hatalom oldania és kötnie, hogy oldja mind[en] ő bűnét."
imádjuk:"we love it" 
urat:domnul?ur domnul ural a domina
kinek>akinek:"lat. cui; "la care"
adot (adott "dat,data")
hatalom:"autoritate,putere"
oudania>>oldania="solves/rezolva"
es:"si"
kötnie:"leaga" 
hogy:"acea" hogy?:"cum?"
oudja>>oldja="dissolves/dizolva"
minden:"totul"(alb.mënd:"suge")
ő :"el,ea" 
 bűnét:"pacate"
Si- ne place- Sf.Petru- domnul-la care-i -data- puterea- sa rezolve-si-sa lege, cum-dizolva- cu totul- el- pacatele. 

MÂNTUIRE (3).Etimologie

November 26, 2020

Imaginea, din https://biserici-din-bucuresti.fandom.com/ro/wiki/Catedrala_M%C3%A2ntuirii_Neamului_Rom%C3%A2nesc

Mnr

Va trebui sa scriu acum repede, pana nu uit.Azi dupa-amiaza “mi-a picat fisa” (exprimarea vulgara a revelatiei).Macar nu am stat degeaba ultimele doua nopti pana la 5 dimineata.Am facut legatura intre cateva chestiuni constatate separat in postarile precedente:

  • Limba veche croata Mentui=lat. avertat =”fereste” Mai ales asa cum l-am gasit, Bog Mentui=Deus Avertat= “fereasca Dumnezeu” (in “Tatal Nostru” se potriveste perfect : “…si ne mantuie de cel rau”
  • M-au frapat apoi formele (cu conjugarile aferente) a verbului “a minti” in limbile romanice, cum ar fi mentitus=”mintit“.Bineinteles ca am fugit ca de dracu’ de el, pentru ca mai apoi sa dau de dracu’.
  • Am mai gasit, (dar nu am incredere si voi vedea la ce folosesc) ca s-ar parea ca lat. metui=” a-ti fi frica” apare f.rar si ca mentui; apoi am gasit in franceza veche mentui ca forma gramaticala a verbului mentevoir. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  • Problema incepe de la lat. mentior :”a minti” : https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/mentior The meaning “to lie” stems from a semantic shift “to be inventive, have second thoughts > “to lie, conjure up”.

mentior (present infinitive mentīrī or mentīrierperfect active mentītus sum); fourth conjugationdeponent

  1. (with dative) I liedeceiveCur es ausus mentiri mihi?How dared you lie to me?c. 200 BCE – 190 BCEPlautusCaptivi 3.5.46
  2. pretendfeign “ma pretind, prefac”, adica este vorba de ascunderea adevarului, deviere,deturnare, ma feresc (sa spun adevarul)
  3. Acest avertat, are doar sensul comun de “fereste”, alfel:
  4. lat. avertere, avertat:”abate, abatut“=engl. avert https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/avert
  5. Etymology From Middle English avertenadverten, from Old French avertir (“turn, direct, avert; turn the attention, make aware”), from Latin āvertere, present active infinitive of āvertō, from ab + vertō (“to turn”).
  6. Deci de fapt cuvantul mentui de unde o fi venit el, din mariajul latinei cu slava sau din ilira, dupa cat se pare o forma locala (locul!?) a unei limbi romanice=sermo vulgaris, sau mai dinainte (?) inseamna:
  7. preface, fereste, abate,deviere,deturnare, intoarcere
  8. Asa incat “si ma mentui.e/mentui.aste de cel rau”= ” si ma fereste/abate/deviaza/deturneaza/intoarce de (la) cel rau” ..eventual mentui-iaste=”este fereste”…mentuit:este ferit…. daca traduc din engleza avert:”evita” in fereste in engleza :”look out, “(atentie), Google i-mi scoate “forbid”(interzice), iar pentru a feri in engleza i-mi apare:”keep out”(tine afara). Deci se adauga cumva si sensurile “evita, interzice, atentioneaza, tine afara”

Din https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/mentevoir Old French mentevoir latin mente habere:”have in mind” “to mention; to speak of” (a mentiona, a vorbi despre)…deci acel mentui gasit in conjugare inseamna engl.mention, rom. mentioneaza.

154 MENTEVOIR https://juliettebourdier.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/tableaux-de-conjugaison-de-lancien-franc3a7ais.pdf Franceză veche Etimologie Din latină mente habēre („a avea în minte”). Comparați Occitan mentàver .Verb mentevoir “de menționat ; să vorbim despre” ; [pass.simp.]
1 : mentui, mantui ; mentoi, mantoi ; mentu ; menti
3 : mentut
6 : menturent, manturent

ATENTIE: Se pare ca in mare masura este vorba de procese mentale sau actiun rezultate din hotarare, gandire.Deci mantuirea nu este in plan fizic, ci este pe plan mental etic si moral.

Nu stiu cum s-o fi intamplat fenomenul, sa fi pornit totul de la: – un mentui (fereste) si un posibil mentuo ( si in engleza fear, frica <seamana> rom. a feri + de la mentior (act.perf. mentitus ..careia numai putin ii lipseste sa fie mentuitu(s)

……cand s-a facut trecerea de la limba latina si a fost altoita pe dialectele locale in familia de limbi romanice, populatiile au avut atat imaginatie cat si sprit practic si nu s-or fi impiedicat ei de gramatici.

======================================

Din ce reiese de aici, nu-mi apare sa insemne salvare, asa incat ma gandesc ca in trecut oamenii erau mai modesti si se multumeau daca in viata asta sant feriti de rau. Altfel, preotii,religia, dorinta de a avea si aia si aia si ailanta, mantuirea are vre-o cine stie cate, 18!? semnificatii (m-am oprit la 12 !):

Din https://dexonline.ro/definitie/mantuire MÂNTUÍ, (1, 4mấntui, (2, 3mântuiesc, vb. IV. Tranz. și refl. 1. (Pop.) A (se) salva (dintr-o primejdie, din robie, de la moarte etc.). 2. (Pop.) A (se) vindeca (de o boală). 3. (În religia creștină) A (se) curăța de păcate; a (se) izbăvi, a (se) salva. 4. (Pop.) A (se) termina, a (se) isprăvi, a (se) a sfârși. ◊ Expr. (Refl.) A se mântui cu… = a muri. [Prez. ind. și: (2, 3mấntui] – Din magh. menteni.

mântui [At: PSALT. HUR. 28v/6 / V: (înv) măn~ / Pzi: mântui și ~esc / E: mg ment1-2vtr (Îvp) A (se) salva dintr-o primejdie, de o nenorocire etc. 3-4vtr (Spc) A (se) dezrobi5-6vtrp (Bis) (A ierta sau) a obține iertarea pentru păcatele săvârșite Si: a (se) izbăvi.7-8vtr (Îvp) A (se) vindeca de o boală. 9vr (înv) A se dezvinovăți. 10-11vrt(a) (Pop) A (se) termina

A SE MÂNTUÍ mă ~iéscintranz. 1) pop. A ajunge la capăt; a se încheia; a se termina. * ~ (cu cineva) a muri. 2) rel. A-și ispăși păcatele; a scăpa de pedeapsa divină. [Și mântui] /<ung. menteni

Altfel, termenul oarecum echivalent din definitie lui din serbo-croata are numai sensul de eliberare. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/izbaviti

ìzbaviti pf (Cyrillic spelling ѝзбавити :” to freeliberate ” …..pe cand la noi, care am luat cuvantul de la ei insemna multmai multe:

IZBĂVÍ, izbăvesc, vb. IV. Tranz. şi refl. (Pop.) A scăpa (dintr-o primejdie, boală etc.); a (se) salva, a (se) mântui. – Din sl. izbaviti.
(Dicţionarul explicativ al limbii române)

A IZBĂV//Í ~ésctranz. 1) (fiinţe) A scoate dintr-o situaţie complicată; a salva; a scăpa. 2) (persoane) A face să se izbăvească. /<sl. izbaviti
(Noul dicţionar explicativ al limbii române)

A SE IZBĂV//Í mă ~éscintranz. A izbuti să se elibereze (de ceva sau de cineva care incomodează); a se dezbăra; a se descotorosi; a se debarasa; a scăpa. /<sl. izbaviti
(Noul dicţionar explicativ al limbii române)

izbăví (izbăvésc, izbăvít), vb. – A salva, a scăpa dintr-o primejdie, a elibera, a răscumpăra. Sl. izbaviti (Tiktin; DAR), cf. bg. izbavjam. – Der. izbavă, s.f. (salvare), din sl. izbavaizbăvitor, adj. (salvator); izbăvinţă, s.f. (înv., salvare).
(Dicţionarul etimologic român) Sinonime:
IZBĂVÍ vb. v. mântui. —————————————————————-

Deci ar parea ca mantuit nu are si sensul de aparare,salvare,eliberare. Dar un vorbitor de limba latina percepe din mentuitu/mantuitu si percepe, intelege: men-tuitu(s)/man-tuitu(s), in care: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/tuitus Etymology Past passive participle of tueor https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/tueor

tueor ( infinitiv prezent tuērī , perfect activ tuitus sum ); 

  1. Am uita sau privirea la, iată , ceas , vedere .tueri traversa – a se uita chioras
  2. Am de îngrijire pentru, paza , apăra , proteja , de sprijin , compensa sau compensa pentru.te amo, tua tueor – Te iubesc și îți pasă de tine
  3. Eu susțin , ține pasul , să mențină , conserva .

tuitus (feminine tuitaneuter tuitum); first/second-declension participle

  1. defended (aparat)
  2. Number Singular Plural
  3. Case/gender Masc Fem Neuter Masc Fem Neuter
    1. Tuitus tuita tuitum tuiti tuitae tuiti
    2. Insa un got, gotic cunoscator de latina (ex. Wulfila) percepe MANN-tuitu(s)=om-aparat.
    3. Vedeti cum avem: mantuitu, mantuita, mantuiti, mantuite.
  1. ….altfel mai avem https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/tuitio#Latin

tuitiō  f ( genitiv tuitiōnis ); Etimologie De la tuitus  ( „ păzit, îngrijit, apărat “ ) + -tiō , participiul pasiv perfect de tueor  ( „ pentru a viziona, pază, îngrijire pentru, proteja, apăra, să susțină, să mențină, să mențină “ ) .

  1. supraveghere , pază ; apărare , pază , protecție
  2. îngrijire , îngrijire ; tutelă , îngrijire
  3. păstrare , întreținere , conservare , susținere ; întreținere , conservare

Mântuirea (2), o preocupare majora a speciei umane.Etimologie.

November 25, 2020

!! Demonstratie ca aceste cuvinte, atat cel din limba romana cat si echivalentul sau in cea maghiara provin dintr-un dialect continuator al limbii ilire, din vechea limba sarbo-croata dialectul kajkavian. Dupa unii aceste vechi dialecte kajkavian si shtokavian ar fi chiar limba ilira. Iar lingvistii germani spun ca limba ilira sta la baza intregii familii a limbilor Indo-Europene.

Ne punem problema nu numai a ceea ce se intampla cu noi ca indivizi in viitor, ci chiar mai mult cu omenirea ca forma de viata si specie. Vom muri ca indivizi, iar specia candva va disparea in neant pentru totdeauna? Va trebui sa ne gasim o noua casa in cosmos? Dar individului neajutorat in ultima instanta, care ii va fi casa sau salasul ? Aceasta e problema a ceea ce se intampla cu omul dupa moarte.Ca orice organism viu este supus descompunerii au constatat oamenii probabil din paleolitic (cel putin).Dar sa fie corpul supus descompunerii, invadat de viermi este o situatie cam dezagreabila si pentru unii inacceptabila.Cat despre suflet este si mai complicat. Daca in trecut se suspecta existenta unei entitati pereche de natura nedetectabila direct, inefabil-eterica, epoca si cercetarea moderna ruineaza existenta unui suflet sub aceasta forma. Mai exact ceea ce are un oarecare presupus corespondent corpul viu, sufletul, acesta dispare dupa moarte. Din zorile speciei omenesti s-a pus aceasta problema. Au privit omul ca intreg sau compus din aceste doua entitati, cu abordari diferite.Sumerienii au fost mai practici, cu mai mult “bun simt”, au fost mai putin orgoliosi si nu au dat o importanta exagerata, peste limitele reale. Isi inchipuiau ca acolo unde au auns sub pamant isi continua o existenta anosta intr-o lume gri si se granesc cu firimitur.Atat si nimic mai mult.Asta in conditiile in care dadeau mare importanta religiei avand multe feluri de “preoti”.De la egipteni incoace, odata cu dezvoltarea complexitatii vietii sociale si a religiilor, problemei a inceput sa-i fie mult mai multa atentie. Egiptenii sperau la nemurirea omului ca intreg (cu trup si suflet) in alt spatiu.Si din orgoliual speciei umane au revendicat ca loc cosmosul , constelatia Orion. Sub o forma sau alta in diferite religii a fost tratata asemanator problema momentului limita a trecerii in lumea mortilor.Crestinismul a pus in sarcina zeitatii supreme decizia de a obtine acordul suprem si de a trece in lumea buna,cer sau rai.Si la egipteni era cantarit sufletul omului cu o balanta.In crestinism problema este una pe plan sufletesc si mental. Este vorba de a decizia celui aflat in pragul mortii de a cere aprobarea trecerii in rai, dar si a zeitatii de a o da sau nu.Pe masura ce religiile au evoluat cererea a fost la inceput mai modesta de a fi indepartat de rau, pana la cererea expresa si imperativa incuviintare si de a primi incuviintarea (era sa zic “stampila”) pentru rai.Prin termeni ca “rascumparare” (a pacatelor, formala in esenta, (nu la propriu materiala), cererea salvarii si a eliberarii. De aceea termenul crestin pentru mantuire nu mai are un singur inteles, ci unul complex.

Din https://dexonline.ro/definitie/m%C3%A2ntui MÂNTUÍ, (1, 4mấntui, (2, 3mântuiesc, vb. IV. Tranz. și refl. 1. (Pop.) A (se) salva (dintr-o primejdie, din robie, de la moarte etc.). 2. (Pop.) A (se) vindeca (de o boală). 3. (În religia creștină) A (se) curăța de păcate; a (se) izbăvi, a (se) salva4. (Pop.) A (se) termina, a (se) isprăvi, a (se) a sfârși. ◊ Expr. (Refl.) A se mântui cu… = a muri. [Prez. ind. și: (2, 3mấntui] – Din magh. menteni. >> Desigur, in Europa moderna din care facem parte gasim :

Din http://www.krassotkin.ru/sites/prayer.su/english/eastern-orthodox/?fbclid=IwAR1CW-yj9hLnUMwG3JkkZ1n1e4TE8Oj0fqiRo9Bdb3h_WyXDSXJ9E7LvFBI Our Father “….and lead us not into temptation, but deliver=”elibera, izbavi” us from the evil one.”

Sau, din https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord%27s_Prayer

Matthew 6:9-13 (NRSV)And do not bring us to the time of trial, [Or us into temptation] but rescue us from the evil one. [Or from evil]Luke 11:2-4 (NRSV)And do not bring us to the time of trial. [Or us into temptation. Other ancient authorities add but rescue us from the evil one (or from evil)]
Or: From
The Lord’s Prayer
www.spuc.org.au › wp-content › uploads › Save-us-in-…

PDF
The Lord’s Prayer. Study 5. Save us in the time of trial. The words of this petition, which are perhaps best translated from the original Greek as “do
not pass us through the trial”, has replaced the old translation we knew as “not lead us not into
temptation”. Apoi, Our Father http://www.krassotkin.ru/sites/prayer.su/english/v1970/?fbclid=IwAR34ZalxjqbkrMIat4FQonuB4VFCoJpiETXYrqqg59H_ViZidAzA5D9_L80 Do not lead us into trial,
but save us from evil.

Nota-bene .In literatura de specialitate apar inca mult mai multe alte sensuri ! …pe undeva este nefiresc ca un cuvant sa aiba simultan mai mult de sa zicem 5 sensuri. .Sa pornim de undeva.Din timpuri extrem de recente: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Din RUGĂCIUNEA DOMNEASCĂ „Tatăl Nostru” http://www.mitropolia-ro.de/index.php/ro/catehizare/801-rugaciunea-domneasca Text din: Învățătură de credință creștină ortodoxă (Catehism ortodox), București 1952, reed. Iași, 1996 “Care este cel mai desăvârşit model de rugăciune? Modelul cel mai desăvârşit de rugăciune este Rugăciunea Domnească, adică:

„Tatăl nostru, Care eşti în ceruri, Sfinţească-se numele Tău; Vie împărăţia Ta; Facă-se voia Ta, precum în cer şi pe pământ. Pâinea noastră cea spre fiinţă dă-ne-o nouă astăzi; Şi ne iartă nouă greşelile noastre, precum şi noi iertăm greşiţilor noştri; și nu ne duce pe noi în ispită, ci ne izbăveşte de cel rău. Că a Ta este împărăţia şi puterea şi slava în veci. Amin!” (Matei 6, 9-13).”

Din Ci ne mântuiește de cel rău! https://parohiasfanton.ro/sermon/ci-ne-mantuieste-de-cel-rau/ By Pr. Ciprian AndreiVerset : Mt 6, 13bThis text will be replaced with audio if available. Papa Francisc: Audienţa generală de miercuri, 15 mai 2019 Cateheze despre “Tatăl nostru” – 15: Ci ne mântuieşte de cel rău “Iubiţi fraţi şi surori, bună ziua!Iată-ne în sfârşit la a şaptea cerere din “Tatăl nostru”: “Ci ne mântuieşte de cel rău” (Mt 6,13b). Cu această expresie, cel care se roagă nu cere numai să nu fie abandonat în timpul ispitei, ci imploră şi să fie eliberat de rău. Verbul grec original este foarte puternic: evocă prezenţa celui rău care tinde să ne prindă şi să ne muşte (cf. 1Pt 5,8) şi de care se cere de la Dumnezeu eliberarea. Apostolul Petru spune şi că cel rău, diavolul, este în jurul nostru ca un leu furios, pentru a ne devora, iar noi îi cerem lui Dumnezeu să ne elibereze.

Cu această dublă implorare: “nu ne abandona” şi “ne mântuieşte”, reiese o caracteristică esenţială a rugăciunii creştine. Isus îi învaţă pe prietenii săi să pună invocarea Tatălui înainte de toate, chiar şi în special în momentele în care cel rău îşi face simţită prezenţa sa ameninţătoare. De fapt, rugăciunea creştină nu închide ochii cu privire la viaţă. Este o rugăciune filială şi nu o rugăciune infantilă. Nu este aşa de infatuată de paternitatea lui Dumnezeu încât să uite că drumul omului este plin de dificultăţi. Dacă n-ar fi ultimele versete din “Tatăl nostru” cum ar putea să se roage păcătoşii, cei persecutaţi, cei disperaţi, muribunzii? Ultima cerere este tocmai cerere a noastră când vom fi în limită, mereu.

Există un rău în viaţa noastră, care este o prezenţă incontestabilă. Cărţile de istorie sunt catalogul dezolant a cât de mult existenţa noastră în această lume a fost o aventură adesea falimentară. Există un rău misterios, care cu siguranţă nu este operă a lui Dumnezeu dar care pătrunde în tăcere printre pliurile istoriei. În tăcere ca şarpele care poartă veninul în tăcere. În unele momente pare să înfigă: în anumite zile prezenţa sa pare chiar mai clară decât aceea a milostivirii lui Dumnezeu.

Cel care se roagă nu este orb şi vede clar în faţa ochilor acest rău aşa de deranjant şi astfel în contradicţie cu însuşi misterul lui Dumnezeu. Îl observă în natură, în istorie, chiar în însăşi inima sa. Pentru că nu există nimeni în mijlocul nostru care să poată spune că este scutit de rău, sau că nu este cel puţin ispitit de rău. Noi toţi ştim ce este răul; noi toţi ştim ce este ispita; noi toţi am experimentat pe pielea noastră ispita, de oricare păcat. Însă ispititorul care ne mişcă şi ne împinge la rău, spunându-ne: “Fă asta, gândeşte asta, mergi pe drumul acela”.

Ultimul strigăt din “Tatăl nostru” este năpustit împotriva acestui rău “cu margini largi”, care ţine sub umbrela sa experienţele cele mai diferite: durerile omului, durerea nevinovată, sclavia, instrumentalizarea celuilalt, plânsul copiilor nevinovaţi. Toate aceste evenimente protestează în inima omului şi devin glas în ultimul cuvânt al rugăciunii lui Isus.

Chiar în relatările Pătimirii unele expresii din “Tatăl nostru” găsesc ecoul lor cel mai impresionant. Spune Isus: “Abbá, Tată! Pentru tine totul este posibil. Îndepărtează de la mine potirul acesta! Însă nu ceea ce vreau eu, ci ceea ce vrei tu” (Mc 14,36). Isus experimentează în întregime împunsătura răului. Nu numai moartea, ci moartea pe cruce. Nu numai singurătatea, ci şi dispreţul, umilirea. Nu numai duşmănia, ci şi cruzimea, îndârjirea împotriva lui. Iată ce este omul: o fiinţă menită pentru viaţă, care visează iubirea şi binele, dar care se expune încontinuu la cel rău pe sine însuşi şi pe semenii săi, până acolo încât putem să fim tentaţi să disperăm de om.

Iubiţi fraţi şi surori, astfel “Tatăl nostru” se aseamănă cu o simfonie care cere să se împlinească în fiecare dintre noi. Creştinul ştie cât de subjugantă este puterea răului şi în acelaşi timp trăieşte experienţa a cât de mult Isus, care n-a cedat niciodată linguşirilor sale, este de partea noastră şi vine în ajutorul nostru.

Astfel rugăciunea lui Isus ne lasă cea mai preţioasă dintre moşteniri: prezenţa Fiului lui Dumnezeu care ne-a eliberat de rău, luptând pentru a-l converti. În ora luptei finale, lui Petru îi spune să repună sabia în teacă, tâlharului căit îi asigură paradisul, tuturor oamenilor care erau în jur, inconştienţi de tragedia care se consuma, oferă un cuvânt de pace: “Tată, iartă-i pentru că nu ştiu ce fac” (Lc 23,34).

Din iertarea lui Isus pe cruce izvorăşte pacea, adevărata pace vine de la cruce: este dar al Celui Înviat, un dar pe care ni-l dă Isus. Gândiţi-vă că primul salut al lui Isus înviat este “pace vouă”, pace sufletelor voastre, inimilor voastre, vieţilor voastre. Domnul ne dă pacea, ne dă iertarea, dar noi trebuie să cerem: “mântuieşte-ne de cel rău”, pentru a nu cădea în rău. Aceasta este speranţa noastră, forţa pe care ne-o dă Isus înviat, care este aici, în mijlocul nostru: este aici. Este aici cu acea forţă pe care ne-o dă pentru a merge înainte şi ne promite să ne mântuiască de cel rău.” Franciscus Traducere de pr. Mihai Pătraşcu

De ce in varianta moderna este “izbaveste” si in altele “mantuieste” !? Probabil pentru ca limba romana dupa ce initial a fost o limba din subfamilia celtica “kentum” a familiei Indo-europene, sub influenta puternica slava a devanit in mare masura o limba balto-slavica, “satem

Un loc in care puteti gasi zeci de variante ale acestei rugaciuni, majoritatea reale dar si unele create de lingvist cu caracter didactic este : Atta unsar http://www.krassotkin.ru/sites/prayer.su/gothic/image/?fbclid=IwAR2IhJ5YMKMLceeSAuHrYbw-YF_70hrleRPoXWiy-xJW9R-TiMW29jES058

Exemple: Aramaic Jewish (Talmidi Jews transliteration, translation english): Abbun (Our Father) And do not bring us to trial, Rather deliver us from evil.

Ελληνικά: Πάτερ ἡμῶν ♦ Ελληνικά (audio, mp3, Matthew 6 with Πάτερ ἡμῶν): Πάτερ ἡμῶν ” καὶ μὴ εἰσενέγκῃς ἡμᾶς εἰς πειρασμόν,
ἀλλὰ ρῦσαι ἡμᾶς ἀπὸ τοῦ πονηροῦ.”

Germana comuna http://www.krassotkin.ru/sites/prayer.su/alemannisch/common/ Un fiehr uns nét én d’Versüechung, àwer erlees uns vom Beese.

Germana 1980 http://www.krassotkin.ru/sites/prayer.su/german/v1980/ Und führe uns nicht in Versuchung, sondern rette uns vor dem Bösen

Français (La plus ancienne traduction connue en français – XIIe siècle): Li nostre Perre E ne nus meines en tenteisun, meis delivre nus de mal.
Issi seit.

Français (Assemblée des évêques orthodoxes de France) “et ne nous laisse pas entrer dans l’épreuve, mais délivre-nous du Malin.”

Armâneashti: Tată a nostru ♦  http://www.krassotkin.ru/sites/prayer.su/arumanian/common/ Shi nu nă du pri noi la cârtire, ma nă aveagli di atselu arău.

Bulgara Български: Отче наш ♦ Български (v2) и не ни въвеждай в изкушение,ала избави ни от Лукавия.

Sarba http://www.krassotkin.ru/sites/prayer.su/serbian/v2/ И не уведи нас у искушење,
него нас избави од Злога.

Aromana http://www.krassotkin.ru/sites/prayer.su/arumanian/common/Aromână:  Tată a nostru  Shi nu nă du pri noi la cârtire,
ma nă aveagli di atselu arău.

Istro-Romana http://www.krassotkin.ru/sites/prayer.su/istro-romanian/common/ Neca nu na tu vezi en napastovanie,
neca na zbăveşte de zvaca slabe.

Magyar: Miatyánk ♦ Magyar (1997): Mi Atyánk http://www.krassotkin.ru/sites/prayer.su/hungarian/common/ És ne vígy minket a kísértésbe,de szabadíts meg a gonosztól.

Portugheza http://www.krassotkin.ru/sites/prayer.su/portuguese/portugal/ Não nos deixeis cair em tentação,Mas livrai-nos do mal

Incaodata vedem ca aceasta ultima rugaminte din rugaciune incearca sa cuprinda mai multe aspecte legate de indepartarea raului, iertarea de pacate-salvare-eliberare, viata vesnica, dupa cum se vede chiar in cuvintele folosite.

Engleza https://context.reverso.net/translation/english-romanian/redemption REDEMPTION: răscumpărare-mântuire-izbăvire-rambursare-salvare-iertare == =================================

In ultima forma a rugaciunii se vede influenta slava: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/izbaviti IZBAVITI (sarbo-croata):”eliberare

Din https://www.activenews.ro/prima-pagina/Care-este-adevarul-despre-Tatal-Nostru-in-limba-celta-97625?fbclid=IwAR2cWhl6zL3yWLAmQkHx7qM5a8nk5-cd2kEIs1YMbdmI1uEPn4R1-bxpTyQ << Iată cum sună cea mai veche versiune în română a rugăciunii Tată nostru (Tetraevanghelul de la Sibiu, 1551-1553), cea mai veche tiparitură în limba română păstrată până în zilele noastre, arată Cezar Bălășoiu.

Tată nostru cine eşti în cer, svinţiască-se numele tău
şă se vie împaraţia ta şă se fie voia ta cum în cer aşa şă pre pomănt.
Pita nostra saţiosa dă-ne astădz şă ne iartă noo datoriele nostre
cum iartăm şă noi datornicilor noştri. Şă nu ne du în ispita,
însa izbaveaşte-ne de reu.Că a ta iaste împaraţia şă putere şă slava în vecie, amin.

Pornind de la materiale modeste, româna a ajuns la rezultate spectaculoase. Un reputat romanist, Alf Lombard, spunea că, dacă ansamblul limbilor neoromanice ar putea fi comparat cu un vehicul, portugheza, spaniola și catalana ar fi prima roată a acestuia, franceza și occitana, a doua, italiana cu dialectele ei și sarda, a treia. Ei bine, spunea Lombard, româna este cea de-a patra roată a căruței, fără de care, pentru un romanist, întregul angrenaj ar fi nearmonios, instabil și mult mai greu de înțeles”. >>

Din Intre mântuire și salvare https://anarchelariu.wordpress.com/?fbclid=IwAR0ab-0LpO6FXftnr72jsR0gLPWvbkSX1t7fGF5UYIMhTsfAz1mwWberix4 Pentru a clarifica și mai mult istoria acestui cuvânt în limba română putem consulta Dictionarium Ungaricum per Albertum Molnar publicat în 1574, în care găsim că latinescul Salvátor este tradus în maghiară prin “üdvőzitó ‘salvare, pocăință’ în religie ‘Mântuitor’; și megtarto ‘păstra, reține’, dar nu am putut găsi cuvântul menteni; iar latinescul salvus, a, um este tradus în maghiară cu egesseges (?). Dacă luăm în considerație faptul că acest Dictionarium Ungaricum a fost publicat în 1574, perioadă în care primele texte bisericești în limba română apăreau, și în care cuvântul mântuire este deja present, atestările lingvistice din Dictionarium capătă o foarte mare importanță pentru etimologia cuvântului românesc. Semnificativ este faptul că în aceeași periodă găsim în literatura hagiographică românească cuvântul mântuire cu înțelesul pe care îl are și astăzi. Iată câteva exemple:
Psaltirea Scheiană, manuscris datat din 1573-1578 (1482-85):
Psalm II. II; III Căntecul lui David căndu fugiǐa de fața lui Avesalom fiǐul său, 3. Mulți grâirâ sufletului mieu/Nu e măntuiré dela Dumnedzăul lui… [Nu ǐaste spaseniǐa lui] 9. A Domnului iaste măntuirǐa, și spre oamenii tăi blagoslovenie ta. [spăsește-mă] (Corecturile în paranteze mari sunt cele din Psaltirea lui Coresi tipărită în 1577, ceea ce vădește cunoașterea formei slave spasenie care a rămas în limba rusă cu sensul de mântuire.) Etimologia acestui cuvânt continuă să fie controversată. Dicționarele românești DEX, etc., consideră cuvântul ‘mântuire’ a fi un împrumut din limba maghiară și oferă ca sursă forma menteni ‘a (se) elibera, a (se) salva, a ieși dintr-un impas’. Însă consultând dicționarul etimologic maghiar al Academiei Ungare (1970) nu găsim forma infinitivală menteni ca atare, ci verbul ment cu sensul ‘a elibera, păzi, scoate, salva, ieși, fugi’, prima atestare fiind datată la aprox. 1195 în cântecul funerar Halotti beszéd és könyörgés în următorul fragment:
Scerelmes bratym uimagg(om)uc ez ſcegin ember lilki ert. kit vr ez nopun ez homuſ világ timnucebelevl mente.
Acest text este scris într-o limbă arhaică, greu de descifrat, care are mai multe traduceri/interpretări:
Szerelmes brátim! Vimádjomuk Frate dragă! Vimádjomuk (nu e în dict)
ez szëgín embër lilkíért, Acesta szëgín (szegyen?-rușine) lumea/oamenii lilkíért,
kit Úr ez napon ez hamus világ Cine/cui? Dumnezeu (astă-zi) cenușa acestei lumi
timnücë belől menté, timnücë (?) dar înăuntru am intrat,
Sau:
‘Dragostea de prieteni! Ei iubesc viața sărmanului om, pe care Dumnezeu ziua asta este sa iasă din falsa pușcărie’,
Sau:
‘Bratt drag! Vimádjomuk (?) acest szëgín (?) lume lilkíért (?), pe care ziua Domnului este cenușa lumii inăuntru am intrat’.În aceste exemple sensul cuvântului maghiar ment(e) este de ‘intrare, scoatere, ieșire’. Conform dicționarului menționat cuvântul este vechi, având originea în rădăcina men-, menedek ‘refugiu, adăpost’, de unde probabil sensul ulterior de ‘intrare, adăpostire, scăpare’. Această rădăcină are derivatele ment1 ‘scuză, iertare, salvare’ și ment2 ‘intra’; alte derivate sunt și formele megmentett ‘salvate’, megmenekült ‘scăpate’, găsite într-un text de la 1508, și mened, menedikeny ‘scăpat’; menthető ‘puteți salva’; mentségre ‘scuza’; menekedik ‘va scăpa’ datate din 1666; la 1830 apare mentesiteni ‘scutit’, etc. Cu sensul de ‘eliberare’ găsim exemplelele: mentes ‘eliberat din’, mentés, mentetocare poate fi scăpat, scăpare’. …… legături de înțeles care ne pot determina să presupunem existența unei forme *mendh, manth în limba vorbită pe teritoriul dacic, cu sensul de ‘înțelept/înțelepciune, învăța/învățător’.>>

Din Tatăl nostru | BDD-A1787 | Diacronia http://www.diacronia.ro › TATĂL NOSTRU* ALEXANDRU NICULESCU

<<Iată însă că în 1593–1594, în altă parte a teritoriului românesc, în Moldova, apare un Tatăl nostru scris chiar cu litere latine. Este vorba de un text pe care un logofăt cultivat, dintr-o familie de boieri, Luca Stroici (se pare educat în şcoli germane), emigrând în Polonia şi împrietenindu-se cu alt nobil, scriitorul, de confesiune calvină, Stanislaw Sarnicki (Sarnicius, 1532–1597), îl oferă acestuia; textul este o versiune manuscrisă a Tatălui nostru (pe care nu o cunoaştem); cunoaştem, în schimb, textul tipărit şi publicat de St. Sarnicki:

Parintele nostru ce iesti in ceriu, swinçaskese numele teu, se vie inpereçia ta, se fie voia ta, komu ie in ceru assa ssi pre pemintu. Penia noastre seçioase de noai astedei, ssi iarte noae detoriile noastre, cum ssi noi lesem detorniczitor [sic!] nosstri. Ssi nu aducze pre noi in ispite ce no mentuiaste de fitlanul”. (Heinimann 1988;text corectat după Niculescu, Dimitrescu 1970)

…În al doilea rând, termenul, general în absolut toate versiunile transilvănene, izbăveşte (de origine slavă) este înlocuit cu
mântuieşte (de origine maghiară, existent şi în ucraineană). Această schimbare>> eugenrau: “mentuiaste” !! cu mE ! Imagine, din https://adevarul.ro/locale/focsani/cine-introdus-alfabetul-latin-tara-noastra-rugaciunea-tatal-nostru-text-scris-limba-romana-litere-latine-1_5583e468cfbe376e3571a25d/index.html

Cine a introdus alfabetul latin în ţara noastră. Rugăciunea „Tatăl nostru“, primul text scris în limba română cu litere latine

Am incercat sa gasesc cum a aparut,direct de la noi!? sau din alta parte cuvantul a mentui,mentuia, mantui >>(mantuire,mantuitor)

Din Forschungen zur Kaiser- und papstgeschichte des Mittelalters
beihefte zu J. F. Böhmer, regesta imperii herausgegeben von der
österreichischen akademie der wissenschaften– regesta imperii –
und der deutschen kommission für die bearbeitung der
regesta imperii bei der akademie der wissenschaften und der
literatur · mainz file:///C:/Users/User/Downloads/Die_Sizilischen_Goldenen_Bullen_von_1212.pdf

<<35 Cronica Reinhardsbrunnensis, in: MGH SS XXX.1, 566: … Et Odackarus nimirum iure suo ad resistendum Philippo advenerat, quoniamquidem regnum Bohemie Philippus vendicare non mentuit, et in argumentum desolacionis lantgravii, ne sibi Odackarus in posterum esset auxilio, suis patruelibus, Dypoldi videlicet filii, regalia cum suis contentis delegare curavit … ; Arnoldi Chronica Slavorum VI.5, in: MGH SRG [14.], 223: … Unde commotus frater repudiate, Theodoricus marchio Misnensis, una cum duce Bernardo, qui Philippi regis familiares fuerunt, hoc apud ipsum obtinuerunt, et regnum sive ducatum Boemie Odackero adultero auferret et Theobaldum puerum, qui tunc Magdeburch studebat, Theobaldi filium, transferet … Über die Vertreibung Diepolds III. und seine Belehnung berichtet nur eine böhmische
Quelle, das späte Prizibiconis de Radenin dicti Pulkavae Chronicon Bohemiae 67, in: FRB V, 120†.>>

“Statuta Confiniariorum Varasdinensium” iz 1732. godine:
latinski i kajkavski tekst Zlatko Kudelić Hrvatski institut za povijesty
The author analyzes text of Statutes of Vlachs published for frontiersmen/Grenzers of Varaždin Generalate in in the 1732 in latin and kajkavian variant of croatian language and compares this document with the older one, the Vlach Statutes / Statuta Valachorum from 1630. year. The aim of this new document was to redefined obligations and rights of frontiersmen in Varaždin Generalate after a long period of social and religious disturbances during first three decades of 18. century. Author
points out that the appearance of this document must be considered in context of military reforms in Varaždin Generalate made by Count Caspar Ferdinand von Cordua. He reorganized military structure of Generalate establishing new military units, but reducing the pay of frontiersmen and raising of pay for officers was not acceptable for frontiersmen. Styrian estates although opposed his reforms warning Vienna court that financing of Varasdin Generalate under this circumstances was useless and that well established and equipped frontiersmen army cam also represent potential threat for Monarchy. As for a new Vlach Statutes, they like the old Statuta form 17th century had not consider religious and ecclesiastical issues, but restricted frontiersmens right of free disposition of posessions and forbade buying out military service. Most important change was nomination of military judges (auditors) in seat of every of four captaincies, which have accomplished the duties of previouse supreme judge and eight assessors. Auditors solved different complaints of frontiersmen, including those against military captains (vojvode), and vojvode have got the possibility of making final decisions in quarrels which can be solved without official judicial procedure. Although Vienna Court supported Cordua’s plans and promulgated them in 1733 they have been accepted only partialy, but reforms caused disturbancies and resistence of frontiersmen and new Statuta for frontiersmen of Varasdin Generalate were not officialy proclaimed because authorities wanted to keep peace in Military Frontier.

Uvod
Među najvažnije isprave za povijest Hrvatsko-slavonske vojne krajine (dalje: Krajine) svakako spadaju takozvani “Statuta Valachorum” (Vlaški zakoni), dokument objavljen 1630. godine kojim su za vladavine Ferdinanda II. uređena prava i dužnosti krajišnika Hrvatsko-slavonske vojne krajine. Ovu ispravu, koju su potvrđivali Ferdinand III. godine 1642., Leopold I. godine 1659. i Karlo VI. godine 1717., povjesničari su navodili kao temeljnu ispravu koja je do Hildburghausenovih reformi 1737. godine regulirala život krajišnika, ali o navodnome postojanju teksta “Statuta Valachorum” iz 1667. godine mišljenja se razilaze otkako je Fedor Moačanin napomenuo da te godine nije objavljen niti je stupio na snagu novi vlaški zakon, odnosno da nisu postojala nova “Statuta Valachorum” i da bi ih trebalo spominjati samo ako će biti pronađeno novo arhivsko gradivo koje bi ih potvrdilo. Činjenica jest da su krajiški nemiri 1658. godine i Osmokruhova buna 1666. godine potaknuli vojne vlasti na određene promjene krajiškoga ustrojstva, pa je samostalno krajiško sudstvo prestalo djelovati ukinućem velikih sudaca čija mjesta više nisu popunjavana, kapetani su preuzeli u praksi sve sudske i upravne funkcije, ali nastojanja krajišnika da se popune mjesta velikih sudaca nisu uspjela iako je ova njihova funkcija spominjana na papiru još u potvrdi “Statuta Valachorum” 1717. godine. Predložene promjene bile su posljedica učestalih nemira među krajiškom populacijom od objavljivanja Vlaških statuta 1630. godine pa do sedamdesetih godina 17. stoljeća i uhićenja marčanskoga unijatskog/grkokatoličkog biskupa Gabrijela Mijakića (biskupovao

  1. – 1670.) tijekom biskupovanja zagrebačkoga biskupa Martina Borkovića
    (1667. – 1687.).
  2. U tome se razdoblju istovremeno s problemom interpretiranja sadržaja krajiških povlastica pojavilo i pitanje imenovanja odgovarajućega unijatskog biskupa kojega neće samostalno birati krajišnici na svojim skupovima nego bi on bio biran između nekoliko kandidata predloženih vladaru u Beču, što su
  3. krajišnici obiju vjeroispovijesti doživljavali kao kršenje svojih prava. Zagrebački biskupi Benedikt Vinković (biskup 1637. – 1642.) i Petar Petretić (biskup 1648.
  4. – 1667.) u izvješćima upućivanima Bečkome dvoru i Rimskoj kuriji prozivali su pravoslavne krajišnike (Vlahe) za različita kršenja odredbi Statuta Valachorum iz 1630. godine, a marčanske (“vlaške”) biskupe isticali kao podstrekače krajiških nemira samovoljnim tumačenjima krajiških povlastica i kao prividne unijate koji su, iako u Beču imenovani unijatskim biskupima, podržavali pravoslavlje na krajiškome području i stvarnim crkvenim poglavarima držali pećke patrijarhe, kojima su plaćali i crkveni porez preko vizitatora upućuvanih iz “Turske” među krajišnike. Iako su Vinković i Petretić najprihvatljivijim rješenjem ovoga problema smatrali ukidanje “vlaške” (Marčanske) biskupije, čime bi krajišnici izgubili utjecajne zagovornike na Bečkome dvoru, bili su svjesni da Beč to nikako neće ….

PRILOG
/45r/Nos CAROLUS Divina favente clementia electus Romanorum Imperator
semper augustus,
Germaniae, Hispaniarum, Hungariae, Bohemiae, Dalmatiae,Croatiae, Sclavoniae, et Serviae etc: Rex, archi Dux Austriae, Dux Burgundiae,Styriae, Carinthiae, Carnioliae, ac Wurtembergae, Superioris, ac Inferioris Silesiae, Marchio Moraviae, Superioris et Inferioris Lusatiae, Comes Habspurgi, Tyrolis, et Goritiae etc.etc: Caeteras inter Reipublicae curas in ea praecipue studia intenti, ut universis et singulis Ditionum Imperio Nostro subjectarum Incolis leges publicae Gentium, Provinciarumque quieti proficuae sanciantur, capita quaedam
communem, majoremque ad tranquillitatem Confiniariorum Varasdinensium conferentia hacce Tabula mandare decrevimus: Et quamvis Populo confiniario ibidem commoranti Nostris a Deces/45v/soribus jam dudum statutis prospectum fuerat certis a Nobis quoque superioribus annis confirmatis, cum tamen à nupera ad disquisitionem rerum Generalatum Varasdinensem concernentium delegata
commissione compertum, Nobisque inter alia relatum erat, nonnullas praefato-
rum Statutorum sanctiones tum et abusu corruptas, tum et temporum vicissitudine quasi penitus abolitas, vel caeteroquin multifarie neglectas, aut indebite hactenus explicatas, nec non ab illorum antiquorum statutorum usum colonos inter
Valachicos, et Croaticos in memorato confinio mixtim cohabitantes ….

-….Statuta Confiniariorum Varasdinensium, seu Populi militaris Savum intra et Dra-
vum habitantis. …De Magistratibus…De Judiciis: ….De Rerum Dominio …De delictis privatis et publicis….De Re Militari….

Articulus undecimus.
Quocunque autem tempore, quod Deus clementer avertat, quidam impetus aut suspicio majoris momenti orietur, ex omnibus omnino capitaneatibus quoquot inveniuntur confiniarii, immo ipsa juventus decimum octavum annum excedens ad Turcas et hostes quoscunque conjunctis viribûs omni ex parte etiam cum vitae discrimine propulsandos semper sint parati, et militaribûs signis ad hoc per generalem datis excitati cum omni bellico apparatu eo, quem generalis….

Old Croatian/kajkavian : Od Duguvainia Voinichkoga.

Articulus Jedenaiszti.
Kadaguder bisze pako Sto Bog mentui kakova voiszka podigla Zevszeh Capitanij, vszi krainschani da pache y Dechaki oszemnaiszt Let imajuchi na odbiiainie turchina, y koiegagot Drugoga nepriatela vszi zakupa Szlosno zevszeh Sztrani, y iz pogibelium Sivleinia Szuoga Szuprot takovim nepriatelom vszigdar gotovi biti moraju y kadaimsze Voiachko znameinie po Generalu na takov poszel da, da
vszi zevszem orusiem, koimssze od Generala….>>

Dictionar, ili rechi szlovenszke zvexega ukup zebranc, u red …books.google.ro › books· Translate this page https://books.google.ro/books?id=eNRUAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA59&lpg=PA59&dq=bog+mentui+deus+avertat&source=bl&ots=4iaO-qt3gh&sig=ACfU3U2Sa6xOEN1P3Lu–zrR8QlFoZy5qw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjZ8__0zZ7tAhU1i8MKHXNHDuEQ6AEwAHoECAEQAg#v=onepage&q=bog%20mentui%20deus%20avertat&f=false

Mali Neboder :: DICTIONAR ILI RECHI SZLOVENSZKE

Juraj Habdelić: Dictionar ili réchi szlovenszke… – Institut za …ihjj.hr › iz-povijesti › juraj-habdelic-…Juraj Habdelić: Dictionar ili réchi szlovenszke… Juraj Habdelić (Staro Čiče, 1609. – Zagreb 1678.

Menten: Chlamys(dis)=vestis superior Mentui Bog . Avertat Deus . Mentuemsze naszkorom . Brevi liber ero . Liberabe me , Expediam mė , Liberabor . Merczina . Cadaver , ris , n . Merczyariin .Georgius Habdelich · 1670

Din https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quod_Deus_avertat Quod Deus avertat este o expresie latină care tradusă în italiană înseamnă „ Doamne ferește ”. [1] Este o expresie a conjurației folosită atât în ​​contexte orale, cât și în contexte scrise.


Illyrisch-deutsches und deutsch-illyrisches Handwörterbuch …books.google.ro › books
· Translate this page Mentuvanje , ja , n . die Befreiung

Eugenrau: mentuvanje (limba ilira):”eliberare

Din Habdelić – browsing https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=hr&u=http://crodip.ffzg.hr/pregledavanje.aspx%3Frj%3Dhab%26id%3D3594&prev=search&pto=aue

CroatianLatin  
Menye. Minus. BrowsingPicture
Menyi. Minor, ris, c. nus. n. BrowsingPicture
Menyek. Ruta, æ, f. BrowsingPicture
Menten. Chlamys, dis, f. Superior. BrowsingPicture
Mentenecz. Chlamydula, æ, f. BrowsingPicture
Mentuvanye zverhu cheſza na pízmu. Cautio, onis, f. BrowsingPicture
Mentui God. Avertat God. BrowsingPicture
Mentuemſze naſzkorom. Brevi liber ero. Liberabo me, Expediam me, Liberabor. BrowsingPicture
Merczina. Cadaver, ris, n. BrowsingPicture
Merczvarim. Excarnifico, as, p. BrowsingPicture
Measure. Menſura, æ, f. BrowsingPicture

Asa incat MENTUI vine din limba ilira si inseamna “fereste”; cum limba ilira exista in Europa dinaintea erei noastre, va dati seama ca mentui este atat la originea magh.menteni cat si a rom.mantui.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illyrian_languages#Era The Illyrian languages were a group of Indo-European languages that were spoken in the western part of the Balkans in former times by groups identified as IllyriansArdiaeiDelmataePannoniiAutariatesTaulantii (see list of ancient tribes in Illyria). Some sound changes from Proto-Indo-European to Illyrian and other language features are deduced from what remains of the Illyrian languages, but because there are no examples of ancient Illyrian literature surviving (aside from the Messapian writings, if they can be considered Illyrian), it is difficult to clarify its place within the Indo-European language family. Because of the uncertainty, most sources provisionally place Illyrian on its own branch of Indo-European, though its relation to other languages, ancient and modern, continues to be studied.
Era. The Illyrian languages were likely extinct between the 2nd and 6th centuries AD, with the possible exception of the language that developed into Albanian according to the theory of Albanian descent from Illyrian. It has also been posited that Illyrian was preserved and spoken in the countryside, as attested in the 4th-5th century testimonies of St. Jerome.

eugenrau: !? guess ! : Riddle: where lived Panonii !?

mente – Wiktionaryen.wiktionary.org › wiki › mente Latin Mente From Latin mentem, singular accusative of mēns (mind/minte), from Proto-Indo-European *méntis (“thought”).

Asturian mente f (plural mentes) : mind (ability for rational thought)

Italian mente f (plural menti) :mind/minte

Hung. mente Etymology From the men– stem of megy +‎ -te (noun-forming suffix).

  1. (often with -ban/-benleaving from somewhere/a pleca de undeva
  2. (often with -ban/-bengoing somewhere
  3. (rare) the courseprogress of something
  4. the immediate neighborhood of a river, riverbank 
superessivementén
allativementéhez

Derived terms menti Etymology 1 ment (“to save, rescue”) +‎ -i (personal suffix)

Verb menti third-person singular indicative present definite of mentA dokumentumot sablonként menti. ― Saves the document as a template

++++ b y b l i on Bibliograpgy +++

Šarić, Marko. “Inter-confessional Relations and (In)tolerance among the Vlachs (16th-17th Centuries)”. U: Tolerance and Intolerance on the Triplex Confinium.Approching the “Other” on the Borderlands: Eastern Adriatic and beyond 1500-1800., uredili Egidio Ivetić i Drago Roksandić, 181-194. Padova: Cleup, 2007

O AUTORSTVU ANONIMNE PUBLIKACIJE
PRIMJER : MOLITVENIK POBO@NE MOLITVE IZ 1678.
IS ANONYMUOS PUBLICATION THE EQUIVALENT OF UNKNOWN
AUTHORSHIP EXAMPLE : THE POBO@NE MOLITVE PRAYER BOOK, 1678
Anka Ivanjek Nacionalna i sveu~ili{na knji`nica u Zagrebu file:///C:/Users/User/Downloads/11vbh_52_ivanjek.pdf

Summary
Although anonymous publications are normally catalogued according to the rules laid down in librarians’ manuals as well as established practice, occasionally a work we come across requires a different approach. Such an example is the Pobo`ne molitve (Book of Devotional Prayer), written by a woman in the Croatian kajkavian dialect and published anonymously in Vienna in 1678. Reflecting the predicament of a person situated between death and God, this work raises numerous questions regarding its purpose and authorship.The absence of any clues as to the work’s provenance necessitates a close analysis of other kajkavian prayer books and similar works; from the historical background to the activities of the pious fraternities; the surviving fragments of the devotional life of women’s orders in the seventeenth-century Zagreb; and the written archive of Judita Petronila Zrinski, a member of the female order of St Clare of Assisi, also known as the Poor Clares.
Keywords: prayers, anonymuos publications, authorship, Poor Clares, Judita Petronila Zrinski

Usporedba
Tablica 1. Slovopis Pobonih molitvi glas znak primjeri ĕ e Devicze, Meſzecz, Nedelyu, zvezda j i j kai, naidem, tvoiem, ſetui, mentui mojeh, Bosjemi, ſztvorjena, pohajam | gi gy dohagiali, razregiuju megy lj ly li lyudi, Mihaly liucztvo, opraulianie, zapelia, liutoſzti s ſz z ſzuprot, oſztanem, nechiſzta, vuſzta oltarzkom, zkvarenja { ſ ſſ ſiba, ſator, ſkrinya, varaſ duſſu, naſſa, dignuſſi v v vijeni, zs ſ saloszt, podlosna, Boſanszke, ſarkoga

P A N N O N I A https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pannonia#Prior_to_Roman_conquest Prior to Roman conquest

The first inhabitants of this area known to history were the Pannonii (Pannonians), a group of Indo-European tribes akin to Illyrians. From the 4th century BC, it was invaded by various Celtic tribes. Little is known of Pannonia until 35 BC, when its inhabitants, allies of the Dalmatians, were attacked by Augustus, who conquered and occupied Siscia (Sisak). The country was not, however, definitively subdued by the Romans until 9 BC, when it was incorporated into Illyricum, the frontier of which was thus extended as far as the Danube.

Under Roman rule

Seuso and his wife at Lacus Pelso (today Lake Balaton)The Roman empire in the time of Hadrian (ruled 117-138 AD), showing, on the middle Danube river, the imperial provinces of Pannonia Superior and Pannonia Inferior and the 2 legions deployed in each in 125Map showing Constantine I‘s conquests of areas of present-day eastern Hungary, western Romania and northern Serbia, in the first decades of the 4th century .

In AD 6, the Pannonians, with the Dalmatians and other Illyrian tribes, engaged in the so-called Great Illyrian Revolt, and were overcome by Tiberius and Germanicus, after a hard-fought campaign, which lasted for three years. After the rebellion was crushed in AD 9, the province of Illyricum was dissolved, and its lands were divided between the new provinces of Pannonia in the north and Dalmatia in the south. The date of the division is unknown, most certainly after AD 20 but before AD 50. The proximity of dangerous barbarian tribes (QuadiMarcomanni) necessitated the presence of a large number of troops (seven legions in later times), and numerous fortresses were built on the bank of the Danube.

Some time between the years 102 and 107, between the first and second Dacian wars, Trajan divided the province into Pannonia Superior (western part with the capital Carnuntum), and Pannonia Inferior (eastern part with the capitals in Aquincum and Sirmium[13]). According to Ptolemy, these divisions were separated by a line drawn from Arrabona in the north to Servitium in the south; later, the boundary was placed further east. The whole country was sometimes called the Pannonias (Pannoniae).

Pannonia Superior was under the consular legate, who had formerly administered the single province, and had three legions under his control. Pannonia Inferior was at first under a praetorian legate with a single legion as the garrison; after Marcus Aurelius, it was under a consular legate, but still with only one legion. The frontier on the Danube was protected by the establishment of the two colonies Aelia Mursia and Aelia Aquincum by Hadrian.

Under Diocletian, a fourfold division of the country was made:

Diocletian also moved parts of today’s Slovenia out of Pannonia and incorporated them in Noricum. In 324 AD, Constantine I enlarged the borders of Roman Pannonia to the east, annexing the plains of what is now eastern Hungary, northern Serbia and western Romania up to the limes that he created: the Devil’s Dykes.

In the 4th-5th century, one of the dioceses of the Roman Empire was known as the Diocese of Pannonia. It had its capital in Sirmium and included all four provinces that were formed from historical Pannonia, as well as the provinces of DalmatiaNoricum Mediterraneum and Noricum Ripense.

Din dictionar Abanez-Roman, https://ensq.dict.cc/?s=pensive

menduar {adv} pensively meditativ
i/e menduar {adj}pensive meditativ
i/e menduar {adj}thoughtful ganditor

Romanian GAND:”thought”.Etymology

November 22, 2020

Here we have another weirdness, curiosity:

Romanian dictionary DEX https://dexonline.ro/definitie/gand “etimology Din magh. gond.

Where I’ve found different meanings: https://www.academia.edu/12808138/Hungarian_Dictionary ” gond [conf. also romanian gand (thought); Romany gindo]:”care” gondol [from gond Cf.also Rom. gandi; Romany gindil ]:think

https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/gond?fbclid=IwAR1q_tZv_4gvEsxqQQmXr_eoBKIyiCyMUTsoAXskVu-TSfmcEVo9g25GZpA GOND Etymology Of unknown origin. gond (plural gondok) – care Synonyms: figyelemodaadás Nagy gonddal vigyázott a gyerekekre. ― She looked after the children with great  .troubleanxietyproblemSynonyms: bajkellemetlenségproblémabosszúságNem lesz sok gondod velük. ― You won’t have any problems with them

https://www.arcanum.hu/hu/online-kiadvanyok/Lexikonok-a-magyar-nyelv-ertelmezo-szotara-1BE8B/g-2CDF3/gond-2D5FE/?fbclid=IwAR3-Q72kpPBtHAX943YvBhyRN5jkySsmZNZptRFSamsseX-mzx7ZoIz2gwQ

care noun -ot, -ja1.  1. An in-depth examination of a troubling issue; internal anxiety caused by sg, torturous restlessness; contemplation, tearing, worry. Torturous, torturous trouble; problems digest, torment; forehead grooved ® grooved; gets into a lot of trouble; to take care of sy; to put sg in the care of sg; sg causes a lot of trouble for sg; he does n’t take much care of sg: he doesn’t care much about it; to drive away his troubles with sg; hangs your worries at an angle; there is a lot of trouble with sg; ® your head is full of care. ? And then there is an unknown problem overwhelmed… ( Ferenc Kölcsey ) Discover the man’s problems with the beautiful moonlight of your lonely joy! ( Dániel Berzsenyi) Carefully woke up autumn king, Restless had a dream at night. ( Mihály Tompa ) the. What causes trouble (1); affair, clever thing, trouble. Paternal, family, custody, housing, school, national, parental care (s); ® pimple problems; lives without problem (s); the problem of sg: dealing with something (long or permanent), caring (compulsion, need); the problem of purchasing, cooking, household, finding housing, editing, traveling, operating, preparing for the exam; ® dismisses the care of sg; get rid of sg; with trouble and trouble: with many difficulties (struggling);a lot of trouble; this is his main, least concern. I can’t get it, a thousand worries. ( vocabulary ) Even a smaller problem is bigger than…: you care about it the least. Sea is my problem, a thousand my problems. ( vocabulary ) Little child little problem, big child big problem. Trouble aside, boo aside! ? What the trouble is worth on bread and water, Add wine to the brittle cup. ( Mihály Vörösmarty ) Small estate is a small problem, large estate is a big problem. ( Géza Gárdonyi ) I thought that with this innocent lie I would take care of everything. ( Dezső Kosztolányi )We are all with you, who has a dignified concern. ( Attila József ) || b. (Material) trouble: a difficulty of a material nature; for money v. lack of other necessary goods. He lives without problem (s). They are provided with everything, no problem. 2. Careful thoroughness, perseverance, careful attention, devotion. He takes care of it, makes it, does sg; he takes great care of sg. This work requires a lot of care and expertise. ? Not stand up, shame,… Stand up… come on what! … He listens [to the king]… about this, but with careful care He discusses the possibility with Kont. ( János Arany ) . Gondja van v. take care of sy, sg: take care of him, care for; ® covers your concern for sg; I will have trouble with it: a) I will take care of him, I will not forget about him; b) <as a threat> I will take care of your trouble !; what’s my problem v. with him ?: what do I care about him ?; to take care of him, to take sy: he undertakes to care for him; takes care of it; to entrust sy with sy ® sg; care ® wears oneself, sg v.to take care of sy, sg. ? (s): 1. forgetful; forgotten; worries; carefree; caring; worried; 2. bread problem; artificial problem.

www.federatio.org › mi_biblPDF
Etymological Dictionary of Hungarian (EDH) 22 ian. 2007 — << Uralic languages are a member of the Nostratic “language family” -…….. In this present article I have shown, that according to the etymological reconstruction of the Hungarian basic vocabulary by the four standard etymological dictionaries, there isn’t either an Uralic nor a Finno-Ugric language family.

Although von Hevesy compared in his 1932 book all Finno-Ugrian languages with basically the Kherwarian branch of Munda – especially with Santali and Mundari, since there were no other dictionaries at hand in his time -, he strongly focussed in his conclusions that the basic stock of these Finno-Ugrian people were the Hungarians: “That the Magyars might have passed the Caucasus mountains on the way to their new homeland, is very probable, since the route from India led to the shore of the Asowian Sea, where the Magyars are historically remarked first” (1932, p. 337).

100 gond “worry”, gondolni “to think”
ŠL 108/1; 106/11; MSL III 152/367; Gost. 82; Hev. 184
Sum. gun
Sant. gund “to reflect, to think”

…..In the following, I present 577 Hungarian-Sumerian-Turkish etymologies. Yet, in very few cases I have given a word from another member of the Turkic language family, when no Turkish etymology was at
hand (e.g. Chuvash, Chagatai, Yakut, Uighur), in one case (no. 722) >>

Me: The autor is completely out of linguistic field with santaly of fino-ugric family: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santali_language Santali (Ol Chiki: ᱥᱟᱱᱛᱟᱲᱤ), also known as Santhali, is the most widely spoken language of the Munda subfamily of the Austroasiatic languages,

www.jstor.org › stable
word-structure and etymology (on the ancient layer of words of … – jstor
stems originating in the Uralic, Finno-Ugric and Ugric era, the ancient déri- … ‘miserly’ ; gerjed ‘ to anger’ ; gond ‘care‘ ; gyanú ‘suspiciJSTOR HomeJSTOR is a digital library of academic journals, books, and primary sources.jstor.org

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk%3AHungarian_language <<Important information is also, the Italian substratum and effect on the Romanian language, the Friauli dialect (linguistic continuity between Venetia – Istria – Dalmatia in the Roman times), this can be easily checked (Schuchardt: Der Vocalismus des Vulgarlateins. Leipzig 1868. II. 46)Some Hungarian loanwords from the Romanian language (they are reflecting the case mentioned above):Nému, aldui, aldasiu, fagadasiu, surzuita, birau, biru, kezesiu, oca, uca, orasiu, orasianu, feredeu, hiklenia, valciegu, hasna, keskeneu, mestesiugu, uricasiu, bulciu, gandu, haleu, hotar, holda, ileu, valmasiu, gazdaku, vama, chipu, chipzui, ravasiu, ravasiu de drumu, sáma, dare de sáma, catana, fagadau, lacui, lacasiu, mintui, mintuitor, vileag, siru, urlui, uiag, fel, felu, giulusiu, alénu, bintatuire, untuire, ingaduire, etc.>>

https://clics.clld.org/parameters/2975#1/46/-2

gondolatHungarianUralicɡondolɒtthoughtNorthEuraLex

gind Romanian Indo-European ɡind thought NorthEuraLex

https://www.etymonline.com/word/*ghend- *ghend-

also *ghed-, Proto-Indo-European root meaning “to seize, to take.” 

It forms all or part of: apprehendapprenticeapprisebegetcomprehendcomprehensioncomprehensivecomprisedepredatedepredationempriseenterpriseentrepreneurforgetgetguessimpresariomisprisionospreypredatorypregnableprehensileprehensionpreyprisonprize (n.2) “something taken by force;” pry (v.2) “raise by force;” reprehendreprievereprisalreprisespreesurprise.

to grasp= intelego <>thinking ……………….

I found also http://wrdingham.co.uk/cyba_index/word_index.htm?fbclid=IwAR0o-k1GUmzJoVydaa-ZgrCy6nqYJYxiXPduukfCkQQb0_0eARE-WwgT0oQ

frighten – gand- (Lithuanian) 9529
think gHend a gandi 15489 , 15491
think gHend gandi (Romanian) 14384
think gHend gând (Romanian) 15618 , 15625

others got ahead of me:

Pentru cine este nocivă originea traco-dacă a limbii române …www.cunoastelumea.ro › Istorie Oct 22, 2018 — … românesc a gândi provine din radicalul proto-indoeuropean ghend (a prinde, a înțelege), iar gond-ul maghiar este împrumutat din română.


Theo Vennemann (ed.)-The New Sound of Indo-European …www.scribd.com › document › Theo-Vennemann-ed-The…
Dec 22, 2016 — Studies and Monographs 41 1989 Essays in Proto-IndoEuropean phonological … ?(-h-) *ghend– ‘grasp‘: Lat. praehend, Gk. khandn, Goth. bi- ..

dacia | Vatra Stră-Rumînă | Pagina 7thraxusares.wordpress.com › page În fine, programul Language Rich Europe, condus de British Council, luînd act de … Mulţi ne explică în ziua de azi că Mihai Viteazul nici gând nu avea să … verbul românesc a gândi provine din radicalul proto-indo-european ghend (a prinde,

http://xuanphuong.vn/blog/1335fc-romanian-compared-to-other-romance-languages Gand…Ghend

Albanian word derived from root Ghend: https://www.majstro.com/dictionaries/Albanian-English/gjendem?fbclid=IwAR1aAAd3alqEnyFK_6bUAcYcSgCefvWhOTr2HRsAgy9jPflagspXOtKh2ZU

AlbanianEnglish (translated indirectly)
info gjendeminfo be situated; info lieinfo sit
https://www.majstro.com/Web/Majstro/bdict.php?gebrTaal=eng&bronTaal=alb&doelTaal=eng&teVertalen=gjendje&fbclid=IwAR2R7Hw5Irq6GEnjv_tIQwXkB7XfHRCDLKptAxnXgmFpS7yZoCmdRnvw-PA
AlbanianEnglish (translated indirectly)
info gjendjeinfo circumstances; info conditions; info situationinfo state of affairs

From List of Lithuanian gods and mythological figures – WikiVisuallywikivisually.com › wiki › List_of_Lithuanian_gods_an… Deivės Valdytojos (Lithuanian: Governing Goddesses), were the goddesses who … Gondu – goddess of weddings; Upinė (Upine) – goddess of rivers, springs ..

From https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?zx=5altn8zeq797#inbox?projector=1 Stoica, like most Romanian translators of
Shakespeare at that time, proves to be highly influenced by the Latinist trends that advocated the replacement of all words of Slavic origin with words derived from Latin or other Romance language. Thus, he chooses to translate the word friend as amic (Lat. amicus) instead of prieten (Slav. prijatelĩ); love as amor (Lat. amor) instead of iubire (Slav. ljubiti) or dragoste (Slav. dragostĩ); holy as sacră (Lat.sacer) instead of sfântă (Slav. sventŭ); to think or thought as a cugeta or cugetări (Lat. cogitare), instead of a gândi or gânduri (Hung. gond).

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Under work/ To be continued

Romanian verb “a mantui”(1). Etimology

November 14, 2020


All endeavour began after I wached on youtube the speach “Some reflections on stupidity/dumbness” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAbNhfCwLhk of Romanian renown scholar Andrei Plesu.

There he made an asertion that the name of one of the most revered monument of romanians, brand-new biggest Orthodox cathedral, ” Catedrala mantuirii neamului” is composed of three words, none of romanian origin, pointing that neam and mantuire is appearing in DEX (Romanian Explanation/Etymological Dictionary) the words neam and mantuire to have an hungarian origin.

From https://dexonline.ro/definitie/neam “Din magh. nem.” and https://dexonline.ro/definitie/mantuire “Din magh. menteni.

I was quite shocked and realised that it is an unforgivable and inexcusable mistake or lack of minimal linguistis knowledge and due of lasyness of our schollars.

Cause Danubian area is the very place of Old Europe (Vinca-Turdas, Cucuteni cultures).  See https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/db/Indo-European_migrations.gif

Panonian plain and Carpathian Mountains area were inhabited before any of many Asian hordes raided Europe relentless one after another. Inhabited by thraco-dacian related people, and before by ancient populations, pre-Indo-European and after them, true Indo-Europeans. And one of the supposed pool and origin of Indo-European family of languages. https://aleximreh.wordpress.com/2014/10/19/old-europe-the-indoeuropean-homeland-the-aryan-urheimat/

arian home

c. 5000 bc. Homeland:  The Danube River valley (Wallachia and Hungary).

Panonian basin before 200-500 AD. from https://aleximreh.files.wordpress.com/2019/01/i2.jpg

and later (~ 100-200 A.D.) https://aleximreh.files.wordpress.com/2019/01/a2.jpg

Celts on Panonia

celts_in_iii_century_bc

******************************************** Romanian-English        Translation of “mantuire” in English, From https://context.reverso.net/translation/romanian-english/mantuire Noun: “salvation, redemption, saving, revivalism, peace-offerings, soul rapture-ready”

To start quite abruptly, I did not found something better than:

From Mihai-Silviu Chirilă: Mântuirea din DEXmihaisilviuchirila.blogspot.com › ma… „mântuire” provine de la manu („de mână”) și tenere („a ține”). … Interesanta originea neclara sau multipla a cuvantului “mantuire

The Romanian dictionaries consider ‘mântuire’ a loan word from the Hungarian menteni ‘to (get) free, to (self) save, to liberate from a deadlock’. Consulting the Hungarian Etymological Dictionary (1970) we find the verb ment ‘to free, guard, deliver, save, exit, run,’ but not a form menteni as such. This dictionary lists as the first attestation of ment dating around 1195 in the funerary song Halotti beszéd és könyörgés.

I’ve found:- https://translate.google.com/?hl=en#view=home&op=translate&sl=hu&tl=en&text=ment ment=”went” and https://translate.google.com/?hl=en#view=home&op=translate&sl=hu&tl=en&text=megment megment=”savehttps://www.dict.com/angol-magyar/menten mentén:”along”https://www.dict.com/angol-magyar/mentes mentés=”rescue, salvage

From save – English to Hungarian Meaning of save – hungarian.english …hungarian.english-dictionary.help › q=save HungarianEnglish menteni:”save” ; Also, hung. mentés :” rescue ,salvage, saving/save ,recovery ,lifesaving”  From https://glosbe.com/hu/en/ment%C3%A9 ;https://translate.google.com/?hl=en#view=home&op=translate&sl=hu&tl=en&text=ment%C3%A9s%20%3 A mentés=”save”

Other native hungarian not agree with this above opinion: Talk:Hungarian language https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk%3AHungarian_language#Jurchen_Mogher_and_Magyar:_Tungusic_elements

<< Important information is also, the Italian substratum and effect on the Romanian language, the Friauli dialect (linguistic continuity between Venetia – Istria – Dalmatia in the Roman times), this can be easily checked (Schuchardt: Der Vocalismus des Vulgarlateins. Leipzig 1868. II. 46). Some Hungarian loanwords from the Romanian language (they are reflecting the case mentioned above): Nému, aldui, aldasiu, fagadasiu, surzuita, birau, biru, kezesiu, oca, uca, orasiu, orasianu, feredeu, hiklenia, valciegu, hasna, keskeneu, mestesiugu, uricasiu, bulciu, gandu, haleu, hotar, holda, ileu, valmasiu, gazdaku, vama, chipu, chipzui, ravasiu, ravasiu de drumu, sáma, dare de sáma, catana, fagadau, lacui, lacasiu, mintui, mintuitor, vileag, siru, urlui, uiag, fel, felu, giulusiu, alénu, bintatuire, untuire, ingaduire, etc.

Quite interesting as long as hungarian tribes come to Europe one with turkic/altaic language (Magyars) and another with ugric (Hungars). From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarians#Origin c. 830 to c. 895 Around 830, a rebellion broke out in the Khazar khaganate. As a result, three Kabar tribes of the Khazars joined the Hungarians and moved to what the Hungarians call the Etelköz, the territory between the Carpathians and the Dnieper River. The Hungarians faced their first attack by the Pechenegs around 854,[37] though other sources state that an attack by Pechenegs was the reason for their departure to Etelköz Entering the Carpathian Basin (c. 895) ! ! Cause they entered an already established pool of previ ous thousend years allready settled population . Wich for sure thought all populations of Earth what is happening with them afer death. Me: Until 955 were under Byzantinen empire influenced, and had an incipient form of christianism. They turn to christianism after 955.

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_conquest_of_the_Carpathian_BasinBefore the arrival of the Hungarians, three early medieval powers, the First Bulgarian EmpireEast Francia and Moravia, had fought each other for control of the Carpathian Basin. Their language: Origin of word roots in modern Hungarian Uncertain 30% Uralic 21% Slavic 20% German 11% Turkic 9.5% Latin and Greek 6% Romance 2.5% Other known 1%

Weird, this mentes is identical with : -https://www.spanishdict.com/translate/MENTES?langFrom=es : – mentes:” to mention” and: – latin mentes:”mind” ……(wich in turn has the I.E. root MEN :”mind”( pre I.E. minoan MIN:”constant”), from wich come a constalation of words beginning from gr.menos:”mind,desireardorwishpurpose,anger,couragespiritvigor,powerstrengthforce,violence

” and meno:”stay, wait” https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%CE%BC%CE%AD%CE%BD%CF%89 ==============

<<Previous attempts to clarify the etymology of this word include suggestions offered by the Romanian theologians who offered a Latin solution for ‘mântuire’ from manes ‘the souls of dead’ and tueor, tueri ‘keep’, thus ´the keeping of the souls after death´. On the same direction is the solution through Latin manus ‘hand’ and teneō ‘to hold’.

Other theologians, among them Dumitru Staniloaie, consider ‘mântuire’ as related to the Latin mentes ´mind´ and tueor, tueri, expressing ´a change of mind, a renewal of consciousness´,  cognate with the Greek meta-noew  ’a change of mind, repent’,….>>

manutenere – Wiktionaryen.wiktionary.org › wiki › manutenere

  1. From Late Latin manūteneō (“I support”), from Latin manū (“with the hand”) + (“I hold”). PronunciationEdit. Rhymes: -ere. VerbEdit. manutenere. (transitive) 

..or the refined:

Hungarian, or rather substratum elements in Romanian?www.ceeol.com › search › article-detail… Rom. gând < Hu. gond; labă ~ láb, talpă < talp etc., while a mântui is explainable as a peculiar development of post-classical Lat. manu tueor ‘to heal by hand.

From www.diacronia.ro › pdfPDF Bibliografia românească de lingvistică – Diacronia PALIGA, SORIN, <<*Manu tuitus: mantuit = salvat de mâna Lui, rom. “saved (by His) hand” In honorem Onufrie Vinţeler,. 2011, 241–250 [mântui, mântuire, Mântuitor].Diacronia | Impavidi progrediamur!Diacronia is an online, open-access, peer-reviewed journal of historical linguistics.diacronia.ro >>

=========================================== But I begun from: Root *men- “to thinkmind.spiritual activity” >>> lat.*mén-ti-s ~ *mn̥-téy-s (“thought”); proto I-Iran *mántram m (religion)meditationchanting, and Root *men- “to stayremain” Derived terms:*mén-e-ti (root thematic present) Hellenic: *ménō Ancient Greek: μένω (ménō, “to stay, remain”)

Otherwise we have also: gr. manteuomai https://biblehub.com/greek/3132.htm?fbclid=IwAR2ASEMEK6O5s7n8_uTbcZ7XxdjTKv23CJxUkNmSsA_towHCRbMCSjxKAXM Definition: to divine
Usage: I divine, practice soothsaying, fortune telling, suggesting the fraud involved in the practice. ============================================

But MANTUIRE is one of (or both):

A) Manutenere, or/and manu+tueor, as keep by hand, MAINTAIN

3 – Etymological Dictionary of Spanishwww.spanishetym.com › directory· Translate this pageFrom ProtoIndoEuropean *menth2- ‘id.’ Indo-European … mantener (Verb) “to maintain” Borrowed from Medieval Latin manutenere ‘id.,’ literally “to hold by 

B)MAN(es)Tuor, ManTuit(us)

From https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manes?fbclid=IwAR1IUriv5Q4QIBRoHvfTXh3SfJfA-vFHdmDGNjzy6z51J3mxyrBwaT2tvNA <<In ancient Roman religion, the Manes /ˈmeɪniːz/ or Di Manes are chthonic deities sometimes thought to represent souls of deceased loved ones. …….

The theologian St. Augustine, writing about the subject a few centuries after most of the Latin pagan references to such spirits, differentiated Manes from other types of Roman spirits:

Apuleius “says, indeed, that the souls of men are demons, and that men become Lares if they are good, Lemures or Larvae if they are bad, and Manes if it is uncertain whether they deserve well or ill… He also states that the blessed are called in Greek εὐδαίμονες [eudaimones], because they are good souls, that is to say, good demons, confirming his opinion that the souls of men are demons.>>

From https://www.wordsense.eu/tueor/?fbclid=IwAR1wnLdxyvpedJywdkBY_XTmfOq38B9JCsjgKior0A0W3ltA3qfCmu-XL6o tueor Alternative forms

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/tueor Etymology

From Proto-Italic *toweōr, from Proto-Indo-European *tewH- (to look favorably, protect, observe”)

tueor (present infinitive tuērīperfect active tuitus sum); second conjugationdeponent

From https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/tuitus tuitus (feminine tuitaneuter tuitum); first/second-declension participle

  1. defended Note: why + the other meanings of tueor as “compensate= redeeem”??

So “Keep up,maintain,preserve, guarddefendprotectsupportCOMPENSATE, The spirit,soul of the dead”

(otherwise https://www.google.com/search?q=definition+save&rlz=1C1GGRV_enRO887RO887&oq=definition+save&aqs=chrome..69i57j0j0i22i30j0i10i22i30j0i22i30l2j0i10i22i30j0i22i30.8913j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 “SAVE=(in Christian use) preserve (a person’s soul) from damnation”

Note: redemtion, redeeem<close meaning?>to compensate https://www.google.com/search?q=redeem&rlz=1C1GGRV_enRO887RO887&oq=redeem&aqs=chrome..69i57j0i67l2j0l5.4019j0j15&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 “redeem:” compensate for the faults or bad aspects of..” in religion:” save (someone) from sin, error, or evil.” “Compensate=REDEEM the SOUL

C) Man(eo) + tuit(us)

From https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/maneo?fbclid=IwAR1rirjF9cNeAZbetKjKi38Ciz34XelslzzTqrNczY4fy6dboyDaHH-2hKM << maneo Etymology From Proto-Indo-European *men- (“to stay, stand still”) (with mānsum influenced by mānsī), related to Persian ماندن‎ (mândan, “to remain”), Ancient Greek μένω (ménō, “I remain” Verb:maneō (present infinitive manēreperfect active mānsīsupine mānsum); second conjugation

  1. (intransitive) I stay, REMAIN, abide quotations ▼
  2. (transitive) I awaitwait for, expect (be in store for)Mors sua quemque manet. ― Death awaits everyone.
  3. (intransitive) I wait
  4. (intransitive) I continuelastendure ====================================
  5. Mantuit(us):” remain, last saved” ;”provide remaining, “REDEEMED REMAINING

??? www.jstor.org › stable
Rezultate de pe web
Arya IV – jstor
de la HW Bailey · 1963 ·
CLavv’a must now be connected with Latin mant- in mantu-s ‘ short mantle’, mantuitus ‘ cloaked ‘, mantica ‘ wallet ‘, mantellum ‘ covering ‘.

https://quizlet.com/at/398659693/lectio-29-flash-cards/ metuere fürchten (mentuo, mentui, Note:mistake? :mentuo, mentui?

Full text of “ELEMENTS OF THE SCIENCE OF LANGUAGE … https://archive.org/stream/dli.bengal.10689.18003/10689.18003_djvu.txt 170 § 148,^^he elements building up IndoEuropean languages . … Thus I.-E. •men-fids gives *mT}t6a The Latin mentui preserves the nasal and gives the … Slavic Church Slavic—Bulgarian Serbo- Illyrian Slavic Croatian — Slovenian Itusaian …

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/metuo#Latin Verb metuō (present infinitive metuereperfect active metuīsupine metūtum); third conjugation ….metuit

  1. fear, am afraid
  2. www.chegg.com › flashcards › deck
  3. Book 1, lines 12-33 Flashcards | Chegg.com
  4. Languages And Literatures · Elementary Latin. Practice cardsloading… Practice cards done … metuo, -ere, mentui, -utus. fear

From http://crodip.ffzg.hr/browsing.aspx?rj=hab&id=3590

CroatianLatin
MentenChlamys, dis, f. Veſtis ſuperior. 
Mentenecz. Chlamydula, æ, f. 
Mentuvanye zverhu cheſza na piſzmu. Cautio, onis, f. 
Mentui Bog. Avertat Deus. 
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/avertat https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/averto#Latin avertat:WARNEDturned away
averted; avoided
 diverted)

Nekoji prilozi za povjest kaptolske tvrđe u Varaždinskim …hrcak.srce.hr › file PDF <<Ako bi potribno gda, sta Bogh mentui, moiu kerv, polegh nyh … „Varaždin koncem XVI. vijeka” u „Vjesniku kr. hrv.-slav.-dalm. zemaljskoga arkiva” 1911. str.by J Barlé · ‎1912>>

From lyricstranslate.com › prasiblaškom-l… Tautinis Brandas – Prasiblaškom versuri + traducere în Engleză 30 sept. 2014 — Kažkas ant gatvės aiškinasi mentui. Lithuanian: Kažkas ant gatvės aiškinasi mentui English: Someone at the street is explaining something to a policeman

Also an text from spanish:

EL CARACTER NARRA’l’IVO DE LA LIRICA DEL REY DON DENIS
by Francisco Nodar Manso escholarship.mcgill.ca › dow…PDF Rezultate de pe web in partial fulfilment of the requirements Department of … Francisco Nodar Manso. Hispanic Stud.ies. Master of Arts. Scholars … << Los criticos han analizado la lirica gallegoportuguesa
desde dos perspectivas antag5nicas

E oj’ est o prazo passado ! Por que mentui o perjurado? ai, madre, moire d’amor~. (XVII,p.l? , vv.>> Note: perhaps the meaning is “lied to” Portuguese-english https://translate.google.com/?hl=en#pt/en/mentui mentui=”LIED

Las jarchas estan documentadas desde el siglo XI, y par tanto le corresponde a la lirica hispano-arabiga ser la mas antigua conservada escrita en una lengua romance ; como consecuencia de este hecho las investigaciones pos·teriores a la publicacion de las jarchas parten de
la lirica hispano-arabiga para dilucidar los innumerables problemas que suscita el estudio de la lirica medieval europea.

Vease para la musica gallega: J. Ribera, “De musica y metrica
gallegas”, Homena,je a Ramon Menendez Pidal, III, 1925, pags. 7-35;
Isabel Pope, “Medieval Latin Background of the Thirteenth Century Galician Lyric”, .§.]2, IX, (1943)

?? issuu.com › egigerofa › docs Czuczor-Fogarasi szótár by VZ B – issuu 19 iul. 2011 — Hasonlóan a latin-hellén szerkezetű koroná-nak, mint fejet … fél ( dimidium), fel-et, fel-ek, fel-ez, fél (mentuit) tájejtéssel: fíl ?????

The historie of the Councel of Trent Conteining eight bookes …quod.lib.umich.edu › eebo… of Saint Peter in the Vatican, of Saint Paul, and many others in diuers places, … <<Si ista vera sunt omnia, & Papae nihil mentui sunt, quid opus est Con∣cilio?>>google translate: If these things are true, & there is nothing to the mind of the Pope, what need is there Con|cilio?

=================================================== These supposed: – mantuitus:”cloacked”, (probably related to mantle, mantua) – Croatian menten:” chlamis/dis”, even supposed -Cr. mentui:”avert” – metuo /mentuo/metuere/mentui= “feared”? mentui”avert”, “lied to” ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

All are pointing to gr. mantis and manteuomai:”seer,sooth-saying, fortune-telling, oracle and so on.

In fact all above words give an intersection of mental fields of seer, cloak, chlamydis, mantle, guess, warned, etc.

https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/%CF%87%CE%BB%CE%B1%CE%BC%CF%8D%CF%82?fbclid=IwAR0h3pFb07SQtLD2KSxqvBrOm_jeze6iwtiTBKuOyG8fdLDF3lazCv5KpUQ χλᾰμῠ́ς  (khlamús) f (genitive χλᾰμῠ́δος); third declension

  1. cloakrobemantle +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

– sumerian bārû” or “haruspex”

Haruspicy | The Prediction Projectpredictionx.org › haruspicy Over the thousands of years that the Babylonian, Akkadian, Sumerian and other Mesopotamian cultures thrived, their priests and astrologers developed ..

Sumerian and Babylonian Psalms – Stephen Langdon …books.google.com › books › about › Sumerian_and_Bab…Jul 16, 2019 — While it is impossible to define the spheres of activity of the asipu and kalu priests, yet one fact remains clear, viz. that the psalmists (kalu)

– etruscan & roman haruspices (entrails inspection),seers,fortune-tellers – greek oracles https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oracle#:~:text=The%20most%20important%20oracles%20of,Zeus%20at%20Dodona%20in%20Epirus. and – greek divination https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_divination “The other type of mantis was the independent consultant mentioned above. The important generals and statesmen had their own prophets, to avoid such difficulties as Agamemnon experienced, when Calchas forced him to sacrifice his daughter and ransom his female prize in the opening of The Iliad. Privately hired manteis, such as Alexander used, never seemed to disagree with command decisions, or if a possibly negative prophecy was received, made sure that it was given the most favorable interpretation. By that time, based on what Cicero said, the leaders were probably skeptical of prophecy, but the beliefs of the superstitious soldiers were a factor to be considered.”

…………and through-out time to greek mysteries : Eleusinian Mysteries – Wikipedia en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Eleusinian_Mysteries ; Greco-Roman mysteries – Wikipediaen.wikipedia.org › wiki › Greco-Roman_mysteries and world-wide & greek incubation rituals Image https://www.greece-is.com/of-gods-and-dreams-the-ancient-healing-sanctuary-of-epidaurus/

Of Gods and Dreams: The Ancient Healing Sanctuary of Epidaurus - Greece Is

Incubation (ritual) – Wikipediaen.wikipedia.org › wiki › Incubation_(ritual) <<Incubation is the religious practice of sleeping in a sacred area with the intention of experiencing a divinely inspired dream or cure. Incubation was practised by many ancient cultures. In perhaps the most well known instance among the Hebrews, found in 1 Kings 3Solomon went to Gibeon “because that was the most renowned high place to offer sacrifices.” There “the Lord appeared to Solomon in a dream at night,” and Solomon asked God for the gift of an understanding heart. Among the members of the cult of Asclepius, votive offerings found at ritual centres at EpidaurusPergamum, and Rome detail the perceived effectiveness of the method. Incubation was adopted by certain Christian sects[1] and is still used in a few Greek monasteries. Modern practices for influencing dream content by dream incubation use more research-driven techniques, but they sometimes incorporate elements reflecting these ancient beliefs.

A form of incubation was also used by ancient Greeks iatromantes. According to Peter Kingsley, iatromantis figures belonged to a wider Greek and Asian shamanic tradition with origins in Central Asia. A main ecstatic, meditative practice of these healer-prophets was incubation (ἐγκοίμησις, enkoimesis). More than just a medical technique, incubation reportedly allowed a human being to experience a fourth state of consciousness different from sleeping, dreaming, or ordinary waking: a state that Kingsley describes as “consciousness itself” and likens to the turiya or samādhi of the Indian yogic traditions.>>

Note ! in english we have cloack as mantle and cloac as primitive animals common digestive-genital tract the word related to incubation.(latin cloaca sewer, cesspitcesspool, (anatomycloaca

…..to before-romanians ZALMOXIS

Arhive Zamolxe | Povestea Locurilor

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zalmoxis << Zalmoxis had lived among the wisest of Greeks, such as Pythagoras, and had been initiated into Ionian life and the Eleusinian Mysteries. He built a banquet hall, and received the chiefs and his fellow countrymen at a banquet. He taught that neither his guests nor their descendants would ever die, but instead would go to a place where they would live forever in a complete happiness. He then dug an underground residence. When it was finished, he disappeared from Thrace, living for three years in his underground residence. The Thracians missed him and wept fearing him dead. The fourth year, he came back among them and thus they believed what Zalmoxis had told them.[ >>

Polovragi, pestera lui Zamolxe

Salmos (spanish “psalm”) and solomonari. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solomonari <<Zeus hypothesis. King Solomon as weather-maker may derive from the Greek myth of Zeus the king of gods controlling the weather, a theory proposed by A. Oișteanu[41] This notion that Solomon’s adherents were wizards may have been popularized by the influence of the adventure tale Solomon and Morcolf.[42>>

www.biblicalstudy.ru › …
Новый Завет – Мир НЗ – Bible Studies – Русские страницы
It is possible to think of him as an ‘incomplete’ Christian, as indeed was Apollos … In Jer 27,9 [LXX], the false prophets are linked with the manteuo/menoi kai_ oi( ..

documente.bcucluj.ro › webPDF pag.589 b andeie v. manteie, ( Ita/ manta smantella)

By short, the romanian word MANTUIRE=”REDEEMER” has its roots in pre-christian pagan customs wich later somehow coexisted in the same time with christian faith. Those seers, wizards, fortune-tellers, sooth-sayers ,deviners. mags, magicians associated in different measures throughout the time by people with falsity, lie-lying, pseudo-nomo, ?+fear? Also in the semanthic field “hidden-covered“, avertat=divert ,wich really divert people out of sound thinking and turning-diverting them from their previous pagan or christian faith.They were usually dressed with mantles-cloaks-capes and lived in dirt (see lat. cloaca eng. cloac). From https://glosbe.com/la/en/mentitus?fbclid=IwAR0Iq8ErR6UwyAUfWYVGbleEbA8xggaxSm6Lm4SlSL_sN7oLwuyjLv5zuQ4 mentitus: “counterfeit , feigned ,imitated

The History Girls: Romano-British Cloaks by Caroline Lawrence

Theat’s why gr.mantis-manteuomay is related to mantel-cloak. Also mantis has the same root as mind. Seers not see with eyes but with mindFurther mind is related from the same root to lying.(I.E. root men:” mind”, gr. mantis, μαντεύω=manteuo; lat. mentes & mentis =”mind”; mentior,mentiri,mentire:”to lie” sp.port. “mentir”Old fr. mentir etc.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_in_the_Greco-Roman_world <<According to one source magic in general was held in low esteem and condemned by speakers and writers……..According to Robert Parker, “magic differs from religion as weeds differ from flowers, merely by negative social evaluation”; magic was often seen as consisting of practices that range from silly superstition to the wicked and dangerous. However, magic seems to have borrowed from religion, adopting religious ceremonies and divine names, and the two are sometimes difficult to clearly distinguish. Magic is often differentiated from religion in that it is manipulative rather than supplicatory of the deities.>>

Despite I continued searches and found now-days modern greek https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/%CE%BC%CE%B1%CE%BD%CF%84%CE%B5%CF%8D%CF%89?fbclid=IwAR2pz36rmQHfRRRW9iKn1yL_9CnI9hFgon2j_ksa-1Eme7OzIZ0rcxkgXTw μαντεύω prophesyforetellpredict. guess imp.2pl.μαντεύετε and

imp. pres.μαντεύομαιperf. dependent μαντευτώ
www.jstor.org › stable
Prophecy and Ecstasy in Greco-Roman Religion and … – jstor
de la T Callan · 1985 · Citat de 44 · Articole conexe
RELIGION AND IN 1 CORINTHIANS by. TERRANCE CALLAN … I will be your spokesman” (manteuo, Moisa, pr. R. Dodds comments ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

So with deep sorrow I must dissapoint and deceive some of you, showing you an sermo vulgaris vulgar latin=romance family word: MENTUITUS Note: the vulgar latin texts has a very scarce presence

https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/mentitus?fbclid=IwAR0kHwl2rhTnQsNjwFIcjWGnHSIZgyF_EbET5F92YK-4o-hUw5YnOOz0wb0#Latin Participle mentītus (feminine mentītaneuter mentītum); first/second-declension participle

  1. lieddeceived
  2. pretendedfeigned

aliso.pntic.mec.es › lista › pdfPDF Rezultate de pe web Amicum habes Now i know, that I had to borrow,. Beg and steal and lie and cheat. … quanto promisi , rapui, mentuitus sum et fefelli conandus te acquiscere …

??? I am puzzled cause by one hand mentuitus sum= “I lie” in vulgar latin and by the other hand tuitus is “defended” !?? https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/tuitum#Latin tuitus Etymology Past passive participle of tueor Participle tuitus (feminine tuitaneuter tuitum); first/second-declension participle defended

But because we have no mentuitus in classical latin (only mentitus) Mentuitus only in vulgar latin I am forced to take the form wich existed.

For the moment it is of no use the meaning https://www.wordhippo.com/what-is/the-meaning-of/latin-word-2a9255ae23a3b412e80b85694f2c0595c35420c8.html?fbclid=IwAR39sLgZktMNCJkQGNRYYqzHjpI_Rk2-44V67V7_ILZO8aizC4kGIOp6hY0 of TUIT:”determined” because have no word mentuit in latin.

I searched for man tuitus thinking that Wulfila used such a word in gothic german there is mann but found only:

Full text of “Handbuch der römischen Alterthümer” – Internet …archive.org › stream… (Mommsen ergänzt adeptus est, leichter ergänzt man tuitus est), ut annon[ae^ quinq[ue] … S. Siatiatique de la France, Tome XXI; Resultats generaux du denonibrement .

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 HUNFALVY PÁL. AZ OLÁHOK TÖRTÉNETE.                            II. KÖTET. A MAGYAR TUDOMÁNYOS AKADÉMIA KÖNYVKIADÓ https://archive.org/stream/azolhoktrtnete02hunf              /azolhoktrtnete02hunf_djvu.txt
 "A figyelemre méltó másik szó a mentueste^ mentiiaste különbféle írással kifejezve. Ez a mentui igének con-junctivus praesense. A Máté 27. fejezetének 24. versét:                        ^Egyebeket megtartott, de magát nem tarthatja meg»              az Új testamentomi fordítás így adja vissza:                     «Pre altii a mentuitu, eara pre sine nu poate sa se mentuiaEnnek az új fordításnak czíme : «Noulu Testamentu alu domnului si Mentuitoriului nostru Jisusu Hristosu». 
Honnan valók a mentui és mentuitoriu szók ? Pont- 
briantnak rumun-franczia szótára azt is helyesen a ma- 
gyar menteni szótól származtatja. A Megváltó az olaszban 
Salvatore^ a spanyolban Salvador^ a francziában Sauveur 
 vagy serbatoare lehetett: úgyde ezt a nyelv már az stb. miért nem képezte az oláh nyelv is a latin salvare  szóból a Megváltónak nevét? Azért nem, mert az az 
oláhban csak sárbatoare « ünnep » kifejezésére foglalta volt le. 
Azért folyamodott a magyar mentemhez.^ ebből mentui 
igét és mentuitoriu névszót képezvén.*^'' 
 A rumun nyelv nemcsak magyar szókat fogadott cl, 
melyek mind a míveltség magasabb (politikai és egyházi)" 
 I must check how is written in The Hussite Bible (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hussite_Bible#Vocabulary is the only written vestige of Hussitism in Hungary. The book – or at least the most of it – was translated by Tamás Pécsi and Bálint Újlaki.) 
 Romanian translation:                                          Un alt cuvânt remarcabil este mentueste mentuiaste
exprimată în scrieri diferite. Acest con-junctivus praesense. Versetul 24 din Matei 27:
<<El i-a păstrat pe alții, dar nu se poate păstra pe el însuși>>
 Revine o nouă traducere testamentară:                        «Pre altii a mentuitu, eara pre sine nu poate sa se mentuia. » Din aceasta titlul noii traduceri: «Noulu Testament alu domnului si Mentuitoriului nostru Jisusu Hristosu ».      
 De unde vin cuvintele mentui și mentuitoriu? Punct-
Dicționarul român-francez Briant este, de asemenea, corect din cuvantul maghiar menteni (salvează) cuvântul derivă. Mântuitorul în Italiana Salvatore în spaniolă Salvador în franceză Sauveur Sauveur etc. :de ce limba vlaha nu a format și latina salvare
numele Mântuitorului la propriu? Nu, pentru că în Vlaha ar putea fi doar sárbatoare sau serbatoare: așa mai departe
Limba era deja rezervată pentru termenul «vacanță».
El a făcut apel la mentemhez-ul meu maghiar. ^ Din care mentui
verb și substantiv mentuitoriu. *  
 Limba română a primit nu numai cuvinte maghiare cl, 
 care sunt toate superioare în educație (politică și ecleziastică)
Nota: Foarte stiintifica abordarea atat timp cat extrage acel pasaj Matei din propria lucrare.Cand putea face un minim efort sa vaza cum apar cuvintele in scripturi romanesti mai vechi sau foarte vechi !                                       ============== English translation ======
 HUNFALVY PÁL. OLAH(VLACHS) HISTORY
 II. VOLUMES. BOOK PUBLISHING COMPANY OF THE HUNGARIAN ACADEMY OF SCIENCES. NEW PROCESS. XIX. VOLUMES. https://archive.org/stream/azolhoktrtnete02hunf/azolhoktrtnete02hunf_djvu.txt  
 "Another remarkable word is mentueste  mentuiaste expressed in different writings. This con-junctivus praesense. Verse 24 of Matthew 27:                                                     << He has kept others, but he cannot keep himself >>             A new testamentary  translation returns:  
 A new testamentary  translation returns:                     «Pre altii a mentuitu, eara pre sine nu  poate sa se mentuia. » Of this the title of the new translation: «Noulu Testamentu alu domnului si Mentuitoriului nostru Jisusu Hristosu ».         Where do the words mentui and mentuitoriu come from? Point-
The Romanian-French dictionary of briant also correctly derives it from the Hungarian word menteni (me:save). The Savior in Italy
Salvatore ^ in Spanish Salvador ^ in French Sauveur
etc. why did not the Vláh language also form the Latin salvare
the name of the Savior literally? Not because it is
in Oláh it could only be sárbatoare or serbatoare: so on
The language was already reserved for the term «holiday».     
 He appealed to my Hungarian mentemhez of which mentui
verb and mentuitoriu noun. * ^ ''
The Romanian language received not only Hungarian words cl, which are all higher in education (political and ecclesiastical          ======:https://www.dict.com/angol-magyar/mentemhez  mentemhez:"cent" https://www.dict.com/angol-magyar/menteni menteni:"swing, sweep, beckon,motionwave(one's hand), warn away from sth.  From 1749 Bible same passage    Google translate, tarthatja :"can hold" megtartott:"retained" I am asking too/the same question: Mr.PÁL, why you do not used for mentuit/mentuire (enlesh redeem,redeemer) Mentemhez-derived words, but:      1.megvalt: "realised"; 2. https://hungarian.english-dictionary.help/english-to-hungarian-dictionary-meaning-of-redeem                                 Redeem :megvált
Redeemed :: megváltott                                    Redeemer :: Megváltó   
Camerata Hungarica - Magyarországi Evangélikus Egyház
www.evangelikus.hu › sites › default › files › C-Section
Saviour (Megváltó)
 =====
My note: He cited the Matehew27 passage from his own paper, not from much or most ancinent romanian writings.                   In fact there is an close form latin verb mentuire https://en.eprevodilac.com/prevodilac-latinski-engleski .      But of course from mentire "to lie" from Latin mentīrī‎, present active infinitive of mentior:"Denominal verb from mēns, mentis‎ ("mind"). The meaning "to lie" stems from a semantic shift "to be inventive, have second thoughts" , but from the other its 3 meanings:deceive, pretendfeign because the word come to be used before christian religion from pagan devinators,wizzards.Maybe :                  - latins perceived early christians as deceive( trick or mislead)from their fate, or as well            - ancient romanians as under early christian influence perceived latin devinators & haruspices as diverting deceive( trick or mislead)them from their faith.
mentītus (masc.) (fem. mentītaneut. mentītum)
lieddeceived pretendedfeigned.If we have the same mentuire we have not rom.mentitus but mentuitu(s) wich is not present in this shape in latin, only tuitus (defended,saved) separately.

eng.(to)keep rom.(a)”pastra,continua,mentine”      1.rom. Mentine: engl.”maintain” << latin man(u)-tenere      
 2.also lat.man(ere)-tuitu(s) “remain / last-defended  rom. (a)”ramane/sfarsiaparat, salvat
3.Also lat.Man(es)-tuit(us) :” save(d)-spirit(soul)” rom. Man tuit(us): “saved soul
 I wander from wich briant french dictionary (but I will check further) he found that rom. “(a) mantui”= eng.”to redeem” is from hungarian language "menteni"!? As long as I found  also Indo-European/Romance/Old French “mentui” a form of mentevoir:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~  
 Full text of "Grammaire sommaire de 1!ancien français .."
 archive.org › stream
  https://archive.org/details/grammairesommai00bonngoog
 Mentir. Ind. prés. 2* s. mens; 3® s. ment, manL — Pas. déf. 2® s. mentis; 3** s. mentid, mentit, menti, manti ; 3® pi. mentirent. — Futur. 3" s. mentirad. — Subj. prés. 
3* s. mentet, mente. — Infin. mentir, mantir. — Part. prés, mentant. — Part, pas, mentit, mentut.   
 Mentevoir et Mentoivrk. Ind. prés, l""* s. mentoif, mantoif, mentois, mantpis; 3*^ s. mentoit; 2* pi. menlevez, menteves. — Imparf. 3® s. mentevoit. — Pas. déf. f® s. mentui, 
menti ; 3® pi. menlurent, manturenl. — Subj. prés. 3* s. mentoive, mentive. — Infin. menteveir, mentevoir, mentovoir, mentaveir, mentoivre. — Part. prés, mentevant. — Part. pas. 
menteii, manteii, mantehu, mentati, mentiut, mentut, mantu. 
 
From https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/mentevoir
 1.  Etymology: From Latin mente habēre ("have in mind"). Compare Occitan mentàver.   Mentevoir: “to mention; to speak of”
 
Note: Mentui from any where could come :
 - Is far from Old French mentui: “mentioned,spoked of” or other identical, at least because Romanian word “(a)mantui “ has much, many meanings as gr. Soter(ios),or engl.redeem, save.
 - Gramatical forms is evidencing by “tuit”/”tuitu(s)” possible a much older origin as romance/sermo vulgaris stage.                                                          It seem that is related to latin Balcanic/Aegean mistery rel igions, scorcerers-sooth-sayers,wizards-fortune tellers (in fact at least partly kind of crooks)                               From the time of Salmos(es)/Zalmoxis and solomonari.
 -Sp.salmos=psalm ; thr. salmos:animal skin covering(cloak).    @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
If I will have time I am convinced that this cluster:           hu. menteni/mentemhez                                          gr. men mantis manteuomai, manteuo(μαντεύω,μαντεύτε )                                        lat. mens/mentis/mentui, mentior/mentitus ;                                                rom. mantui(mentui)/mantuire(mentuire)/mantuit(mentuit),mentine, mentenanta                                              fr.mentire, mentevoir/mentui , mentener="keep"                                 engl. maintain , maintenance                                    All are stemming/originate/pertain to I.European family of languages.They have in common humankind mind wich ultimate is at the origin and determining different mental processes and physical actions.
  ----------------------------------
 Révai Miklós Magyar irodalmi régiségek Antiquitates literaturae Hungaricae http://mek.oszk.hu/16900/16955/16955.pdf              Es marada anemberi Ð ket fiaytol » ferietÐl
 megvalt (Ruth 1,5), ’Remansitque mulier orbata duobus liberis suis, ac marito
 suo’  mente ’clamys’                                             A birtokos eset toldaléka a magánhangzóra végződő töveknél a választékosabb használatban a jóhangzás kedvéért szintén j-t kap, mint például:almájé, mentéjé, ollójé, bár sokan keményebben ejtik: almáé, mentéé, ollóé. Ennyit a szabályról.
  A második, rövidebb halotti beszéd
 A KÉZIRATI PÉLDÁNY
 Scerelmes bratým uımaggomuc ez scegen ember lılkıert. kıt vr ez nopun ez homus vılag tımnucebelevl mente. kınec ez nopun testet temetívc. hug
 ur uvt kegılmehel abraam. ùsaac. iacob kebeleben helhezıe. hug bırsagnop
 ívtva mend vv scentíí es unuttei cuzıcun ıov felevl ıchtotnıa ılezıe vvt. Es
 tıv bennetuc. clamate ııı. Á.
 A KIADÓ OLVASATA
 Szerelmes barátim! vimádjamuk ez szegény ember lelkéért, kit Úr ez napon
 ez hamos világ tömnötzebelől mente, kinek ez napon testét temetjük: hogy Úr
 vőt kegyelméhel, Ábrahám, Izsák, Jákob kebelében helyhezje; hogy, bírságnap jutva, ménd vő Szentei és Önöttei közökön jov felől ioktatnia éleszje vőt.
 És tiv bennetöket. Clamate ter: Kyrie eleison!
Ha zerzendez m¹nket megzabadoitanod (uo., 13,9), ’Si decreveris nos salvare’. me: megzabadoitanod "you get rid of it"
   

folia uralica debreceniensia 25. - Finnugor Nyelvtudományi ...
finnugor.arts.unideb.hu › fud › fud25 › fud25_2
PDF  4.1.2. идемс ’megvált’, идиця ’megváltó’, идема ’megváltás’
 ● сонъ идисамизь минекъ душманнокъ эйстэ да весе а вечкитсянокъ кедстэ // кучовтозесь идесамизь эсенек вардотнеде ды сетнень кедест алдо, конат кирдить
 кеж минек лангс // что спасет нас от врагов наших и от руки всех ненавидящих
 нас // megmentett minket ellenségeinktől és gyűlölőink kezétől (01:71)
 ● монь оймемъ Идится Пазомъ туртовъ эрьгеди // ды монь оймем кенярды Паздонть, монь Идицядонть // и возрадовался дух Мой о Боге, Спасителе Моем //
 és szívem ujjong megváltó Istenemben (01:47)
 ● тонъ ломатненень максатъ идимадостъ да пежетестъ кадовмадостъ чаркодьме //
 тон кармат сонзэ ломантнень чарькодевтеме идемадо, конась ашти пежетест
 нолдамосо // дать уразуметь народу Его спасение в прощении грехов их // hogy
 az üdvösség ismeretét add népének bűnei bocsánatára (01:77)
 ● монь сельмень неизь ней Тонть ломатнень идиматъ // эдь монь сельметне неизь
 тонь кучовт идеманть // ибо видели очи мои спасение Твое // mert látta szemem
 üdvösségedet (02:30)
 Ld. még: 02:11 (идиця), 03:06 (идема).
 идемс ’выручить, выкупить, спасти, избавить / auslösen, loskaufen,
 freikaufen, retten, erretten, erlösen’ (MdWb 439); ’спасти, выручить’ (ERV
 203); ’megment, kiment’ (EMSz 124); ’pelastaa, vapauttaa’ (ESS 55); идиця
 ’спаситель / erlöser’ (MdWb 441); ’спаситель’ (ERV 203); ’megmentő, megváltó’ (EMSz 124). Az идема az иде- igetőből -ма névszóképzővel alkotott
 főnév. Az идиця participium praesens alak. – Ismeretlen eredetű szó (ESM
 82).
                                                                                                                                                                                                                            
   
    

Etymology for Romanian “neam”

November 14, 2020

N E A M

  1. familysortkintribe
  2. ancestrylineagedescent extractionorigin
  3. nationpeople

All endeavour began after I wached on youtube “Some reflections on stupidity/dumbness” of Romanian renown schollar Andrei Plesu.

There he made an asertion that the name of one of the most revered monument of romanians, biggest Orthodox cathedral, ” Catedrala mantuirii neamului ” is composed of three words, none of romanian origin, pointing that neam and mantuire is appearing in DEX (Romanian Explanation/Etymological Dictionary) words neam and mantuire appear to have an hungarian origin.

From https://dexonline.ro/definitie/neam “Din magh. nem.” and https://dexonline.ro/definitie/mantuire “Din magh. menteni.

I was quite shocked and realised that it is an unforgivable and inexcusable mistake or lack of minimal linguistis knowledge and due of lasyness of our schollars.

Cause Danubian area is the very place of Old Europe (Vinca-Turdas, Cucuteni cultures). https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/db/Indo-European_migrations.gif

And one of the supposed pool and origin of Indo-European family of languages.

Panonian plain and Carpathian mountains were inhabited before any of many Asian hordes raided Europe relentless one after another. Inhabited by thraco-dacian related people, and before by ancient populations, pre-Indo-European and after true Indo-Europeans. And one of the supposed pool and origin of Indo-European family of languages. https://aleximreh.wordpress.com/2014/10/19/old-europe-the-indoeuropean-homeland-the-aryan-urheimat/

arian home

c. 5000 bc. Homeland:  The Danube River valley (Wallachia and Hungary). =========================================================== Here About “neam

A) One approach could be from Indo-European “name” root: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Name?fbclid=IwAR2VkoQ7EEG-F1YUCGKQgvNj-8lszDb3-7pPcl2xHR9pUa8TAsIqYmEPpOs “The word name comes from Old English nama; cognate with Old High German (OHG) namoSanskrit नामन् (nāman), Latin nomenGreek ὄνομα (onoma), and Persian نام (nâm), from the Proto-Indo-European (PIE*h₁nómn̥.[1] Outside Indo-European, it can be connected to Proto-Uralic *nime.” English language pertain to germanic family, wich in turn is related to romanian, as long as they say goths are relatives of getes.(Goth.”namo”)

From https://it.linkfang.org/wiki/Radici_protoindoeuropee

*h₁nómn̥nomelat. nōmen, ant. irl. ainmm, toc. A ñom, B ñem, ted. Name, gr. ant. ónoma, itt. lāmanant. prus. emnesemmens, russo ímja, alb. emër, arm. anun, av. nāman, sscr. nā́ma
From https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E0%A4%AE%E0%A4%A8%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%A4%E0%A5%81#Sanskrit sanskrit mantu Etymology
From *men- (“to think”). Cf. mentor.
an adviser, manager, disposer, ruler, arbiter.
advice, counsel.
a fault, offence, transgression.
a man, mankind.

B) Second approach, see https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Indo-European/n%C3%A9mos

From *nem- +‎ *-os. *némos n[1]sacrificeworship ;place of sacrificeclearing Descendants


From Sacred Forests in Antiquity. The Geto-Dacian Casewww.orma.ro › old › 8_paul-pupeza
” analogies proves that the Geto-Dacian world wasn’t an exception. Key words: sacred forest, Geto-Dacians, locus, nemus, alsos, nemeton, harug. Natura a ..”.

C) Third approach, https://www.contextualdictionary.com/translate/romanian-english/Ne-am?fbclid=IwAR2mE5ctz1w1uGzs7qyRtQ2Jd4DuNXqxX9lCmWeypJ_GiyR54V_I7cA7ahANe-am =We

https://context.reverso.net/traducere/romana-engleza/ne-am?fbclid=IwAR2L176JiNX8IZil54xQuXC7kCgkQKDnMQ6ShpMniUtc439Fvzt2O7eSnxY neam : nation generation people race lineage

*teuta- | Origin and meaning of root *teuta- by Online …www.etymonline.com › word › *teuta- *teuta-. *teutā-, Proto-IndoEuropean root meaning “tribe.” It forms all or part of: … touto community,” German Deutsch, Gothic þiuda, Old English þeod “people

See https://www.etymonline.com/word/*teuta-

Note: Maybe something like gr. τά αὐτά “(the)same, even“/ From https://biblehub.com/greek/846.htm https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%CF%84%CE%BF%E1%BF%A6%CF%84%CE%BF

οὗτος;”this” https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%CE%BF%E1%BD%97%CF%84%CE%BF%CF%82#Ancient_Greek ==================================================

More to sustain that above: Note: At the origin ancestor of romanian language was Centum (Italo-Celtic), later after coming of slavs in europe turned to acquire some slavic aspects especially in vocabulary.

From en.wikimergic.org › wiki › Name name – Wikimergic, the first-level WikiSiloing for decisioning and … … from the Proto-Indo-European (PIE) *h₁nómn̥. Perhaps connected to non- Indo-European terms such as Tamil நாமம் (namam) and Proto-Uralic *nime.

journals.ub.uni-heidelberg.de › …PDF UN TEZAUR DE MONEDE MOLDOVENEğTI DE LA … Drăgan Dănovac, an Armenian merchant, lived in Suceava in the first half of the 16th century. … de izvod ca să ne arate săminŃăiile lui Danovici din niam în niam, cu care să poată dovedi.

https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Slavic/nam%D1%8A?fbclid=IwAR3KUVmDG5W5SDj6UyQbFkyUlhiAXG3iZowQ8e_YerknBQyi-Zc_v585W0w Proto-Slavic Pronoun *namъ: “(to) usdative of *my

From https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Slavic/n%C4%9Bm%D1%8A Reconstruction:Proto-Slavic/němъ Adjective *němъ “unclear or incomprehensible speakermutteringmammering ;dumbmute (not able to speak);

SingularMasculineFeminineNeuter
Nominative*němъ*něma*němo
Derived terms
*něměti ” My note: others (e.g. germans) percieved as muttering speaking people.

From https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D0%BD%D0%B0%D0%BCNAM=us

From https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/%CE%BD%E1%BF%86%CE%BC%CE%B1?fbclid=IwAR3xCWgbvrQQnE1VsFt8RpQrIi8RaBtiHwcRUUYs1Acht-e8wqQKEOwpbbU#Ancient_Greek νῆμα Etymology From νέω (néō, “to spin”) +‎ -μα (-ma). Noun

νῆμᾰ  (nêma) n (genitive νήμᾰτος); third declension

  1. That which is spun: thread yarn
  2. silk
  3. strand of a spider’s web Note: of course a people is composed of many threads, continuos lineage of relatives and as awhole is perceived as a yarn.
  4. From https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/neo?fbclid=IwAR07DOq1KoL3Q_btZd4Pue8D_7j50fMa9jzNpKd5pzar6Jl8InDwelQLM8w#Latin Neo
  5. Etymology From Proto-Italic *nēō, from Proto-Indo-European *(s)neh₁-.

nt infinitive nēreperfect active nēvīsupine nētum); second conjugation

  1. (transitive) I spinweaveinterlace, entwine indicative singular plural first second third first second third neo nes net nemus netis nent
  2. From https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/neam?fbclid=IwAR2vCVOEszoVuS2loyl5Xj4oLuFdLTUxP6NkBPCHyc28hRYyA1ggSHkQO9I
  3. LatinVerb neam first-person singular present active subjunctive of neō
  4. Serbo-Croatian neam (colloquialfirst-person singular present of nemati Romanian
  5. Etymology ! From Hungarian nem , of unknown origin. !
  6. Noun neam n (plural neamuri)
  1. familysortkintribe
  2. ancestrylineagedescent extractionorigin
  3. nationpeople
  4. SO, FROM LATIN NEAM: “INTERWEAVING”

Meaning of neo (nere, netus, nevi, ne, neam , neamini, neamur …worldofdictionary.com › Latin-English › Nneo is an Latin word started with n. Here is the definition of neo in English. neo: verb spin; weave; produce by spinning; neo: to spin; neo: to spin, interweave.

(PDF) Etruscan_Phrases Indo-European Table 1, Part 6 …www.academia.edu › Etruscan_Phrases_Indo-European_…Oct 28, 2020 — … grove, foresta, , NEAM, nation, related to a forest, wood, pemë, forest, greenwood

From ETRUSCAN FRASES http://www.maravot.com/Indo-European_Table1B.1.html Etruscan namo, namu (NAMV) Script CP-45 Slavic, Baltic, Romanian,
Finnish-Uralic NEAM, nation, related to a familly, lemn, wood, stick, peg, copac, tree (Romanian)

From http://www.dicolatin.com/FR/LAK/0/NEAM/index.htm NEO, ES, ERE, EVI, NETUM, tr

la deuxième conjugaison active des verbesNEAM : la deuxième conjugaison active des verbes, 1 ére personne singulier présent subjonctif actif

actif subjonctif présent 1ére pers. sing.
NEAM
NEO, ES, ERE, EVI, NETUM, tr
2 siècle avant J.C.PLAUTUS (Plaute)
filer v. t : amener une matière textile en état de fil voir: filer
1 siècle avant J.C.VERGILIUS MARO (Virgile)
entrelacer v. t : (tisser, mêler), enlacer l’un dans l’autre voir: entrelacer
mêler v. t : (entrelacer), emmêler voir: mêler
tisser v. t : fabriquer en entrecroisant les fils voir: tisser