Autenticitatea descoperirii tablitelor de la Tartaria

November 12, 2018

Ar putea parea impropriu sa spunem ca ar putea sa nu fie autentice, pentru ca totusi cineva le-a inscriptionat.Daca privim astfel autencititatea, ele sant autentice.                Daca insa privim din punct de vedere stiintific, ca ele au fost gasite impreuna cu cele 26 de artefacte (incluzand oasele) si in acelasi loc, precum si fapul ca se sustine ca apartin unei perioade foarte indepartate a antichitatii, (fapt inca supus unor dezbateri aprinse) atunci putem supune discutiei acest subiect.   Avand in vedere ca :        – Mai multi cercetatori au exprimat mai pe fata sau mai reticent ipoteza neverosimila ca Nicolae Vlassa le-ar fi “plantat“, si ca ele de fapt au apartinut colectiei de artefacte a Zsofiei Torma                                                                                                                                        -Cercetatori de renume si ii amintesc aici doar pe trei Gh.Lazarovici J.Makkai, apoi  si A.A.Vaiman, unde primul vorbeste de un mesaj care nu face parte din categoria scrisului, iar ultimii doi de o imitatie a unui scris sumerian                                                                         – In cercetarile mele, in mod independent am gasit ca ar semana foarte mult cu un scris sumerian proto-cuneiform, dar tablitele nu sant sumeriene si nici scrise de un sumerian. Acest aspect a fost explicat in amanunt doar de doua persoane, A.A.Vaiman si de mine.Exlicatiile fiecaruia contin aproximativ cate 6 puncte.                                                  -Ca am observat ca jumatatea superioara a tablitei rotunde contine semne care au constituit litere in alfabetele arhaice grecesti si in unele derivate ulterior din ele

Astfel, am ajuns la concluzia ca semnele sant similare cu cele proto-cuneiforme,ca nu contin mesaj scris explicit decat jumatatea de sus a celei rotunde. Ca si cum mai degraba decat ca cineva ar fi cunoscut semnificatia acelor semne sumeriene si sa le inscriptioneze transmitand un mesaj, doar a avut acces la semne si atat.

– Pagina de fata este o incursiune a unui fapt aparent banal siintamplator, ca gasisem ca o pura coincidenta ca in prescurtarile latine a existat D.D.o.c., (secventa prezenta in tablita rotunda in dreapta sus) fara ca sa iau in serios aceasta pura coincidenta.

In urma investigatiilor mele am aflat ca:

I. Zsofia Torma, ca urmare a :                                                                                                             – necunoasterii in amanunt a inceputului scrisului in lume (in particular in Sumer) si realizand altfel corect ca o mare civilizatie a lasat acele semne (Vinca), dar si cedand tentatiei catreia multi nu i-au rezistat, si anume de a cauta si asocia originile populatiei care a creat mii de artefacte din colectia sa (vedeti ea recunostea ca sant de dinainte de venirea maghiarilor in Ardeal si nu a incercat sa asocieze direct maghiarii cu ele) a intuit partial corect o posibila legatura a civilizatiilor din Orient cu cele din Europa.                     -Ba mai mult, cineva a scos o lucrare dupa manuscrisul ei, “…Ardealul si civilizatia sumeriana?” in care sustinea ca semnele gasite pe artefacte chir provin de acolo.Lucrare la care nu am avut acces decat partial ;

  • torma-zsofia-sumer-nyomok-erdelyben-11430507-eredeti

eram doar curios in ce masura cunostea semnele sumeriene. Exact nu stiu.Stim ca si N.Vlassa era convins ca sant asemanatoare cu cele sumeriente, ba chiar le-a atribuit vechimea exact cea a inceputului scrisului in Sumer.Ca sa sustina asta lua artefacte cu gramada descoperite de Z.Torma in diferite situri si apartinand probabil unor perioade diferite fiecare.

  • II.Karoly Torma, fratele ei era arheolog dar s-a specializat si in Epigrafie.
  • Inschriften aus Dacia, Moesia superior und Pannonia inferior. Wien, 1882. (Kül. ny. az Archaeol.-epigr. Mittheilung-ből)
  •         Are lucrari de cercetare ale multor situri romane, printre care si cel de la Sarmisegetuza.Ba chiar adescoperit un castru roman, aflat culmea, pe proprietatea sa si astfel a putut fi bine protejat.                                                                                                                            A primit la un moment dat titlul de doctor, dar dezamagitor cumva pt.mine, doctor in litere.
  • A Hunyadmegyei Történelmi és Régészeti Társulat Évkönyve 22. – REAL-J PDFreal-j.mtak.hu › MTA_HunyadMegyTort… Dr. Márki Sándor. 6. Lugosi dr. Fodor András levelei. Ferenczi Sándor — — 18 …… Dr. Torma Károly egyetemi tanár f Porto d’ Anzio.
  • Banuiesc ca limba latina nu avea secrete pentru el.A apartinut confesiunii romano-catolice. Intr-o lucrare a nu stiu cui (sa verif., poate a lui) in se face referire la titlurile de doctor primite de preotii Bisericii Catolice din Ungaria si Ardeal.
  • Negotiating Violence: Papal Pardons and Everyday Life in East …

     

    Gabriella Erdélyi – 2018 – ‎History

    … and Everyday Life in East Central Europe (1450-1550) Gabriella Erdélyi … Lazarus decretorum doctor plebanus de Eczelj decanus generalis) MNL OL, DF .

     
  • XX. évfolyam 2013. 4. szám – FONS – Forráskutatás és Történeti … PDFwww.fonsfolyoirat.hu › images › Fons Torma István közreműködésével szerk.: Zsoldos Attila. ….. alárendeltjeit: Ivanicsi András kánonjogi doktor (decretorum doctor), zágrábi.
  • Acel titlu se numea “decretorum doctor” si se traduce si interpreteaza ca “profesor in legislatie=doctrina catolica. Latinii prescurtau :”D.=”decretorum” –D.o.c.=”doctor“”

HP DDoc =HeRa/HeRo decretum doctor, “Doamna/DDomn doctor in doctrina canonica”

Acum va pun intrebarea, unei posibilitati:                                                                                cine ,unde si cum ar fi putut face un gen de amuleta-amintire-cadou de acest fel?         Cadou al unei rude (Karoly pt.sora lui ) sau de alti colegi din Imperiul Austro-Ungar pe unde a tinut ea conferinte ?….in preajma doctoratului primit de ea?                                        Nota.                                                                                                                                                      La colectia Zsofiei Torma au avut acest doar 2 persoane Roska si N.Vlassa                    Titlul de doctor honoris cauza la primit la Cluj, si a devenit efectiv,valabil la scurt timp  dupa moartea sa)P.S. Recent am recitit lucrarea CUI BONO? THOUGHTS ABOUT A “RECONSIDERATION” OF THE TĂRTĂRIA TABLETS ATTILA LÁSZLÓ* http://www.daciajournal.ro/pdf/dacia2016/18.pdf in urma careia iau mai serios posibilitatea ca tablitele sa fie autentice (mai putin varsta lor)


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Csan%C3%A1d_Telegdi                                                             Telegdi studied in the collegiate school of Várad (present-day Oradea Mare, Romania). He was referred to as cantor of the cathedral chapter by a document in 1295. He attended an Italian universitas – presumably the University of Padua – between 1296 and 1299, obtaining the degree of decretorum doctor, which indicated his competence in canon law.

FINALIZAREA CERCETARII TABLITELOR DE LA TARTARIA sau DEMITIZAREA MITULUI ACESTOR ARTEFACTE MITICE

November 7, 2018

Atentie!                                                                                                                                                             Aceasta postare nu este o o descifrare sau citire a unui presupus continut scris real. Avand in vedere ca semnele nu apartin unui unic sistem de scris ci mai multora, pagina are un caracter pur didactic. Are rolul de a incerca si testa diferite scrieri in idea ca pe tablite s-ar fi folosit unul din ele. Semnele de pe tablite apartin mai multor sisteme de scrisi dintr-larg interval de timp si care au folosite in diferite arii geografice. In niciuna din incercari semnele nu s-au incadrat intr-un singur tip de scriere, totdeauna au ramas semne care au provenit din alte scrieri (sau din necunoscut). Cele mai multe semne provin din cele sumeriene proto-cuneiforme.Apoi privind asemanarea, in ordine descrescatoare este aceea cu semnele Linear A/B si cele Anatoliene. Semnele din jumatatea superioara a tablitei rotunde par a proveni din scrierea arhaica greceasca.Cel mai degraba aceasta “adunatura” de semne pare a fi rodul imaginatiei bogate a cuiva.Dupa cum au constatat A.Falkenstein si A.A.Vaiman, (aceasta fiind si parerea mea ferma) autorul nu a fost un scrib, avea doar vagi notiuni privind scrisul in general si nu se stie ce a urmarit. Exista multe elemente de neconcordanta precum si altele care scot tablitele din tiparele si normele uzuale ale  logicii, scrisului si intentiilor oneste.

  ============                                                                                                       FINALIZAREA CERCETARII TABLITELOR DE LA TARTARIA sau
DEMITIZAREA MITULUI ACESTOR ARTEFACTE MITICE

Motto: “ Voi lua acum în considerare şi voi dezbate câteva mituri referitoare la aceste artefacte mitice..” …(Marco Merlini)
(TARTARIA TABLETS – Prehistory knowledge
http://www.prehistory.it/sitoromeno/tartaria…/tartaria_tablets_02.htm )

Imagine, https://www.amanet.ro/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/tartaria-326×245.jpg

tartaria-326x245

Aceste tablite nu numai aparent ci si in realitate parca ar avea de spus o poveste si chiar au o poveste a lor proprie . Pana la urma au devenit un mit.
Povestea rezulta pe de o parte prin aspectul descriptiv-pictografic, (adica pictograme+semne) si pe de alta parte (de asteptat) prin mesajul pe care il ascund.
Mesaj inca necunoscut.
Datorita a numai doua elemente au devenit celebre, “de poveste” si incaodata mitice..
Adica separat s-a creat un gen de mit in jurul lor.
Deci avem un mit dublu, cel arhaic,necunoscut legat de un presupus mesaj, intretesut cu cel modern ulterior asociat lor.
Doua lucruri au contribuit la acest “dublu”:
presupusa varsta dar mai ales ipoteza de a fi cel mai vechi scris din lume, si
-larga, aproape excesiva mediatizare unde omul modern inca avid de mister a folosit mijloacele media moderne,respectiv retelele sociale.
Se pare ca la primul aspect (presupus a fi d.p.d.v. al scrisului extrem de vechi au contribuit si multi cercetatori, in situatia in care se pare ca in realitate nu numai ca nu sant cele mai vechi din lume dar nici macar atat de vechi cat au apreciat initial multi oameni de stiinta (limita maxima de vechime fiind atribuita la 6.200-4.500 B.C.!)          Prin aportul (altfel bine intentionat) al multor cercetatori romani, in frunte cu cercetatorul italian Marco Merlini, (toti acestia stiind foarte bine ca nu exista martori pentru momentul gasirii tablitelor, in plus nu se stie nici unde era absolut exact fiecare obiect si ca nici varsta tablitelor nu se mai poate determina) au contribuit la umflarea mitului, acesta ajungand la proportii biblice.Acusi un fel de mica Troia sau Atlantida.    La egalitate cu piatra de la Roseta, Egipt.                                                                                      In schimb Prof. Iuliu Adrian PAUL a exprimat o pozitie extrem de realista si chiar critica.                                                                                                                                              Multi cercetatori din lume, dar si majoritatea populatiei stiu gresit acum, datorita lor, ca tablitele poarta un presupus cel mai vechi  scris din lume, tablite cu varsta determinata la 5-6.000 ani B.C.                                                                                                                        Aiurea, nici o varsta nu a fost determinata.                                                                                 Dl. Vlassa s-a comportat cel putin bizar in perioada aceea.Poate avea ceva pe constiinta (nu putem sti ce) sau poate nu. Poate doar nu voia sa fie deranjat de presa !?.

In aceasta ultima etapa, o sa folosesc un limbaj descriptiv, asa ca un gen de povestire. Aceasta pentru a fi accesibil si usor de inteles celei mai largi parti a populatiei. Voi da cititorului o imagine cuprinzatoare si o vedere de ansamblu, in care tablitele sant parte.Unde tablitele sant numai parte a unei imagini panoramice.

C U P R I N S

I.Cum a inceput demersul meu
II.Definitii proto-scriere/scriere
III.Tablou cronologic al evolutiei scrisului in lume si Europa
IV.Semnele civilizatiei Vinca-Turdas (Danubiana)
V.Circumstantele descoperirii tablitelor si varsta lor
VI.Observatiile si parerea mea legate de varsta tablitelor     VII.Particularitati tehnice ale tablitelor,inclusiv tip de scriere
VIII.Presupuneri privind scrisul, cuplate cu cele privind scribul/scriitorul
IX.Presupuneri privind rolul tablitelor
X.Modalitati de apropiere de un presupus scris
XI.Evolutia si stadiul actual al cercetarii scrierilor nedescifrate inca
XII.Stadiul actual in lume al cercetarii tablitelor de la Tartaria
XIII.Concluzii preliminare privind scrisul
XIV.Pregatirea si abilitatile minim necesare pentru cercetarea lor
XV.Cele mai notabile apropieri de o posibila interpretare ale altor cercetatori                                                                                                               XVI. Cele mai recente idei                                                            XVII.Bibliografie
———————————————————————————————————–
I.Cum a inceput demersul meu

Acum cca 12 ani nu mai stiu cum am vazut pozele tablitelor de la tartaria si scria acolo “cel mei vechi scris din lume..nedescifrat”. Apoi am tastat “inceputul scrierii” etc. Si am vazut o droaie de semne folosite in lume. Prima impresie a fost de “deja vu” in sensul ca aveam senzatia ca o parte de acolo le-am vazut dincolo.Apoi au urmat acea perioada de 12 ani in care “vedeam” deja cuvinte in diferite limbi…..aiurea.problema s-a dovedit infinit mai grea devreme ce cei mai mari savanti ai lumii nu au reusit sa-i dea de hac.11 ani am batut pasul pe loc, folosind doar alfabete clasice grecesc,latin si mai apoi cele Anatoliene.
Cand am aflat de inceputul scrierii in lume respectiv scrierea proto-cuneiforma si a celei din Europa, cea Egeeana (hieroglific Cretana, minoana /Linear A si miceniana/ Linear B) parca au inceput sa se deschida niste porti, una dupa alta.
Apoi am gasit lucrarile D-lor Vallance, Jounger, Papakitsos& Kenanidis si ale multor altora (Vaiman, Kolev)
Astfel am ajuns sa realizez ca nivelul cunostintelor mele este cand sub-cand mai rar usor peste acela evidentiat in lucrarile dansilor. Am inceput sa le studiez si chiar sa fac observatii asupra lor. In tot acest timp am avut ca referinta suprema studiile arheologilor romani, lzarovici, Sabin Luca, Iuliu Paul, si ale cercetatorului italian M.Merlini.

II.Definitii proto-scriere/scriere

Proto-scrierea este transmiterea unui mesaj prin semne numite pictograme si ideograme din care nu se pot deduce sunete sau cuvinte. Deci fara a se folosi vre-o limba anume.Proto-scrierea se face prin pictograme, ideograme/logograme iar intelesul dedus este neprecis.

Scrierea este transmiterea unui mesaj (utilizand semne grafice care reprezinta sunete ori silabe sau semne care reprezinta sunete aceste din urma semne fiind litere) deci prin/si care inregistreaza limba.

Din https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-writing
Proto-writing consists of visible marks communicating limited information.[2] Such systems emerged from earlier traditions of symbol systems in the early Neolithic, as early as the 7th millennium BCE. They used ideographic or early mnemonic symbols or both to represent a limited number of concepts, in contrast to true writing systems, which record the language of the writer.
_________________________________________________________________________

III.Tablou cronologic al evolutiei scrisului in lume si Europa

Proto-scrierea a inceput sa fie initiata in mileniul VII B.C.E., dar exemple pregnante de proto-scriere (care preceda scrierea) au aparut simultan in Valea indusului,Egipt si Sumer incepand cu anul 3.500-3.200 B.C.
Scrierea propriu-zisa a aparut in mileniul III B.C. (2.500). Harta, din sit-ul cdli.ucla.edu

Din https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-writing
The transition from proto-writing to the earliest fully developed writing systems took place in the late 4th to early 3rd millennia BCE in the Fertile Crescent. The Kish tablet, dated to 3500 BCE, reflects the stage of “proto-cuneiform”, when what would become the cuneiform script of Sumer was still in the proto-writing stage.

Exemplu de proto-scriere (scris proto-cuneiform)/?3250 B.C.?:
https://static.cambridge.org/resource/id/urn:cambridge.org:id:binary:17706:20160804090558862-0668:03648fig5_9.png?pub-status=live

urncambridge-orgidbinary1770620160804090558862-066803648fig5_9

1+1(2)-oaie-templu-zeu-Inana
Dar nu reiese: dat/primit?cine da si cine primeste ?, in ce scop ? ( pentru preoti, pentru mancat,datorie.imprumut,pentru templul zeitei Inana sau pentru a fi jertfa zeitei Inana ??)
Din http://people.ku.edu/~jyounger/aegeanchron.html

BRONZE AGE

3000 Early Bronze Age 2800-2600: EBA I (EM I at Debla)
2600-2200: EBA II (proto-urban [great house; centralized government])EM II: Vasilike;EH II: Lerna, Corridor House (“House of the Tiles”), destroyed by fire
2200-2100: EBA III: “Anatolian” pottery; potter’s wheel; Greeks?
1900 Middle Bronze Age Middle Helladic (mainland Greece)

 

small villages, intra-mural burials (Ayios Stephanos)
Middle Minoan (Crete)

1900-1800: MM IA: writing (Cretan Hieroglyphic)

1800-1700: MM IB-II: “Protopalaces”

1700-1600: MM III: Neopalatial Crete; Linear A

1600 Late Bronze Age Mainland

 

1600-1500: LH I, “Shaft Grave Period”

Crete

1600-1525: LM IA end, eruption of Santorini (ca. 1625; see below)

1525-1470: LM IB, destruction of almost all Cretan sites

1470-1400: LM II: Greek take-over of Crete (Final Palatial)
Mycenaean Empire

1400-1375: LB IIIA: early palaces (Menelaion [SP], Mycenae, Tiryns, Thebes, Pylos)

1375-1325: LB IIIB: destruction of Knossos in Crete (Post Palatial)

1325-1225: LB IIIC: destruction of all other Mycenaean centers

1200-1100 end of the Aegean Bronze Age all state-institutions collapse; Sea Peoples invade Egypt
1425 (1550) LM II Knossos survives
Palace style pottery
LH IIB Linear B

_______________________________________________________________________________

IV.Simbolurile civilizatiei Vinca-Turdas (Danubiana)

Pana acum nu a fost demonstrata existenta unei proto-scrieri (si nu exista un acord majoritar al cercetatorilor) cu atat mai putin pentru scriere (desi spun ei, in cazul tablitelor de la Tartaria alinierea semnelor evoca impresia unui text)

Din Iuliu Adrian PAUL
ENIGMA TĂBLIŢELOR DE LA TĂRTĂRIA SCHIŢĂ PRELIMINARĂ*
http://bjastrasibiu.ro/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/130-iuliu.paul_.pdf

”Precum se ştie, acestea din urmă au fost socotite de specialişti fie „importuri”, fie imitaţii locale după tăbliţele mesopotamiene, atribuite aşa-numitei perioade „proto-literate” a culturii sumeriene, respectiv secvenţei cultural-cronologice Djemdet Nasr III b, a cărui datare a fost stabilită, de către autorul descoperirii (Vlassa 1963; p. 485-494), pe baza cronologiei scurte (Mesopotamiene), pe la 3000 î.Hr.”

Din https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-writing
The Vinča symbols (6th to 5th millennia BCE, present-day Serbia) are an evolution of simple symbols beginning in the 7th millennium BCE, gradually increasing in complexity throughout the 6th millennium and culminating in the Tărtăria tablets of c. 5300 BCE.[6] It has been argued that the alignment of the symbols evokes the impression of a “text”. The Dispilio Tablet of the late 6th millennium is similar. The hieroglyphic scripts of the Ancient Near East (Egyptian, Sumerian proto-Cuneiform and Cretan) seamlessly emerge from such symbol systems, so that it is difficult to say at what point precisely writing emerges from proto-writing. Adding to this difficulty is the fact that very little is known about the symbols’ meanings.

Din http://www.argument-cs.ro/content/sabin-adrian-luca-la-resita-semnele-de-pe-tablitele
Dar, doresc să vă spun câteva lucruri despre Tărtăria, arhicunoscută prin tăbliţele cu,… unii spun, scriere, din nefericire nu-i chiar aşa, ci, cu transmiterea unor idei specifice celui care poartă tăbliţele, idei greu de împărtăşit altora, deci, nu este scriere, ci este o transmitere ritualică a unor idei. Această transmitere ţine cât trăiesc urmaşii şi, la un moment dat, se diluează şi se pierde conţinutul transmiterii în sine”.
_____________________________________________________________

V.CIRCUMSTANTELE DESCOPERIRII TABLITELOR DE LA TARTARIA SI VARSTA LOR

Observatiile si parerea mea:

Neavand nici macar o minima calificare in domeniul arheologiei, initial am luat de bune toate cercetarile arheologilor precum si concluziile lor.

Pricepandu-ma cumva doar la lingvistica si sisteme de scriere, inca aproape de la inceput, dar si mai mult pe parcurs, din punct de vedere epigrafic, adica al scrisului nu se potrivea deloc varsta atribuita de cercetatori (6.200 B.C.!) , din analiza mea rezultand ca sant mai noi si in nici-un caz atat de vechi.Si mai rau ar putea fi deranjant de noi.

Din pacate, avand totusi la baza cele mai bune intentii, cercetatori de renume au creditat in mod nefondat dupa mine fara dovezi irefutabile, o varsta extrem de exagerata a tablitelor. Prin aceasta au adus un enorm deserviciu cercetarii stiintifice mondiale, nemaivorbind de absoluta deruta creata.

De un mare si extrem folos mi-a folosit urmatoarea lucrare, din care am scos cateva extrase:

Iuliu Adrian PAUL
ENIGMA TĂBLIŢELOR DE LA TĂRTĂRIA SCHIŢĂ PRELIMINARĂ*
http://bjastrasibiu.ro/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/130-iuliu.paul_.pdf

“Astfel, E. Neustupny (E. Neustupny, 1968, p. 32-35), referindu-se la tăbliţele de la Tărtăria, subliniază că, după părerea sa, nu există decât două posibilităţi: ori datele C14 sunt fundamental greşite, ori tăbliţele nu aparţin contextului arheologic de care au fost legate de descoperitor, adică stratului Vinča-Turdaş de la Tărtăria. În argumentaţia sa, el înclină spre cea de-a doua posibilitate, bazată, printre altele, pe faptul că la Simpozionul Internaţional privind cultura Lengyel, ţinut la Nitra (Slovacia) în 1967, s-a precizat că, la nivelul tăbliţelor, s-a descoperit şi o ancoră de lut de tip caracteristic culturii Coţofeni şi bronzului egeean timpuriu.Dacă acest lucru este adevărat înseamnă că, datorită unei erori stratigrafice, tăbliţele au fost greşit atribuite celui mai de jos strat (Vinča) de la Tărtăria şi că ele aparţin de fapt ultimului nivel de locuire (Coţofeni) din această aşezare. În acest caz, decalajul dintre datarea pe baza metodelor clasice şi cele ale carbonului radioactiv, în ce priveşte datarea tăbliţelor, se micşorează simţitor, ajungându-se la o anumită convergenţă. Sprijinindu-şi argumentele pe datele radiocarbonului, Neustupny arată că în funcţie de rezultatele săpăturilor efectuate în ultimii ani în ariile unde culturile europene se întâlnesc cu cele egeene – rezultate care favorizează cronologia înaltă – apreciază că bronzul timpuriu egeean începe în jurul datei de 3100 î. Hr., faza târzie a culturii Baden, cam pe la 3000 î. Hr., iar bronzul timpuriu din Europa centrală curând după 2300 î. Hr. (E. Neustupny, 1968 a, p. 19-60). Deşi metoda radiocarbonului (C14) oferă date extrem de joase, pentru ultima fază a culturii Baden (2600-2300) se poate obţine, totuşi, o dată acordată cu cea a metodelor arheologice clasice (3000 î. Hr.) prin corectarea lor în funcţie de influenţa câmpului magnetic al pământului asupra producerii C14, element care nu fusese, până de curând, luat în considerare. Cultura Baden din Europa Centrală este contemporană însă cu cultura Coţofeni – reprezentată prin ultimul nivel de locuire de la Tărtăria – precum şi cu Djemdet-Nasr din Mesopotamia.Deci comparând datele obţinute pe baza C14 cu cele furnizate de analogiile stabilite pe baza semnelor de pe tăbliţe, completate cu informaţiile recente privind contextul arheologic al tăbliţelor (ne referim la ancora de lut găsită împreună cu tăbliţele, la Tărtăria) se ajunge la date absolute apropiate care se completează, am putea spune, reciproc. Consecinţa logică rezultată din coroborarea datelor amintite este că tăbliţele ar putea fi atribuite unui orizont cultural mai nou şi anume orizontului Coţofeni, deci eneoliticului târziu sau începutului epocii bronzului din Transilvania şi nu orizontului neolitic corespunzător fazei Vinča-Turdaş, datată pe baza C14 în mileniul V, pe la 4500 î. Hr. (Makkay, 1990, Pl.2). Prin urmare, acceptând datele radiocarbonului, ar rezulta că între orizontul Turdaş, căruia i-au fost atribuite, iniţial, tăbliţele şi cel Coţofeni se interpun, cronologic şi stratigrafic, mai multe secvenţe culturale distincte, dintre care unele reprezentate prin depuneri arheologice ce depăşesc, în unele situri, uneori, câţiva metri şi o istorie de circa 1000 de ani. Să fie oare aceasta soluţia definitivă a problemei? Dar ultimele cercetări privitoare la epoca eneolitică şi la perioada de trecere de la eneolitic la bronz (Sebastian Morinz şi P. Roman, 1968, p. 45- 125) bazându-se pe descoperirea unor materiale ce dovedesc influenţe provenite din faza Troia I (datată după ultimele cercetări pe la 2500 î. Hr.), demonstrează că datele fixate anterior pentru sfârşitul eneoliticului central şi sud-est european (2000-1900 î. Hr.) trebuie simţitor coborâte, în aşa fel încât începutul perioadei de tranziţie de la eneolitic la epoca bronzului să fie fixate pe la 2500 sau 2400 î. Hr. Acest lucru ar face ca datarea fazei A a culturii Cucuteni şi a culturii Gumelniţa, de pildă – cultură posterioară în bună parte culturii Vinča-Turdaş – să corespundă celor fixate pe baza metodei C14 (pe la 3100 sau chiar mai devreme). În acest caz datarea fazei de început a culturii Vinča (=Vinča A) cu ajutorul C14, pe la 4500 î. Hr., nu ar mai părea excesiv de joasă, iar atribuirea tăbliţelor acestui orizont cultural-cronologic ar fi exclusă………………………………………………..
Faţă de toate aceste discuţii, ipoteze contradictorii şi propuneri, N. Vlassa ar fi trebuit să răspundă, în primul rând, prin reluarea săpăturilor de la Tărtăria, fie şi doar sub forma unei verificări de control stratigrafic. Din păcate nu a făcut-o. Nu discutăm, aici şi acum, motivele. Consideraţii pe marginea acestei probleme au fost făcute, tangenţial, şi de E. Masson (Masson, 1984, p. 89-123). Cert este că N. Vlassa a preferat să răspundă printr-o serie de articole, în bună parte polemice (Vlassa, 1971, Apulum, IX, p. 21 sqq.) şi, îndeosebi, prin aducerea în discuţie (Vlassa, 1975, AMN, 12, p. 1-12) a unor noi descoperiri, şi de data aceasta, în cea mai mare parte întâmplătoare, aflate în „inepuizabila” colecţie Torma Zsofia.1 Asupra acestor din urmă vom reveni în paginile următoare. Oricum, întreaga problematică a rămas oarecum în suspensie, datorită dispariţiei premature a valorosului nostru coleg. În aceste condiţii am hotărât, împreună cu colegul Ioan Al. Aldea, să ne asumăm dificila sarcină de a efectua săpături de control stratigrafic în staţiunea de la Tărtăria, săpături ce s-au desfăşurat în vara anului 1989…………………………………….. Deocamdată, fie şi în treacăt, dorim să menţionăm , că, dată fiind importanţa şi complexitatea problemei, la cercetările din 1989 au fost invitaţi să participe toţi cercetătorii români interesaţi de problemă. Au participat, în etape diferite, Vl. Dumitrescu şi S. Marinescu-Bâlcu, până în faza finală, şi, parţial, Fl. Draşovean şi S. A. Luca.3

1 N. Vlassa, profund cunoscător al literaturii de specialitate din domeniu, a avut şansa şi poate ghinionul de a putea cunoaşte în amănunt Colecţia Torma Zsofia şi întreaga documentaţie asociată acesteia. Ori, în condiţiile săpăturilor sporadice de la noi, din Transilvania îndeosebi, aceasta reprezenta o adevărată „mină de aur”. De fapt, în concluziile articolului său din Neoliticul Transilvaniei din 1976, paginile 28-34, cu bibliografia aferentă, îndeosebi la p. 34, menţionează faptul că: „în rezolvarea acestei probleme… vor avea un cuvînt de spus şi cele peste 300 de semne de pe fragmentele ceramice turdăşene, aflate de multă vreme în colecţia Muzeului din Cluj, semne dintre care multe sînt identice cu cele de pe tăbliţele de la Tărtăria” 2 Dorim să subliniem faptul că, în condiţiile anului 1989, dotarea şantierului arheologic a fost mai mult decât precară. Ne lipseau până şi cele mai elementare mijloace, începând cu hârtia de împachetat şi sfoara, şpacluri, perii şi măturici. De aparatură şi ustensile mai speciale nici nu putea fi vorba şi nu atât din lipsa banilor, cât datorită lipsei fizice, pe piaţă, a unor materiale şi piese strict necesare. Singurul aparat foto de care dispuneam s-a defectat în primele zile, iar filmele procurate din comerţ s-au voalat. Acesta este motivul pentru care nu dispunem de imagini fotografice de la această săpătură. Nu mai pomenim de faptul că, din aproape 20 de probe C14, prelevate din diverse sectoare, nici una nu a fost primită în străinătate pentru analize, deoarece n-am putut procura pungile de plastic necesare, conform normativelor, fapt pentru care probele au fost declarate contaminate şi deci inutilizabile 3 Acestora li s-a adăugat, pentru câteva zile, cu intermitenţă, şi Horia Ciugudean, interesat însă, doar de nivelul superior cu depuneri târzii. În acest scop a solicitat efectuarea unei secţiuni-sondaj într-o zonă bănuită a fi locuită mai intens în etapa de tranziţie spre epoca bronzului. Secţiunea începută de d-sa a fost săpată doar până la adâncimea de 0,50m de la suprafaţa solului şi a rămas în acest stadiu până la încheierea lucrărilor din 1989
2Dacă o astfel de „îngropare” a unui „complex” de amploarea celui descris de N. Vlassa (Vlassa, 1963, p. 485-494; Vlassa, 1976, p. 161-197) a fost efectiv făcută, atunci elementele sale componente ar fi fost firesc să fi fost prezentate – şi păstrate (depozitate) – împreună, pentru a putea fi studiate ca un tot, inclusiv prin compararea lor cu alte vestigii similare descoperite anterior şi păstrate în colecţia Torma Zsofia spre pildă. Jurnalul meticulos ilustrat al Zsofiei Torma, împreună cu materialele adunate, a intrat în inventarul Muzeului din Cluj, sub forma unei colecţii. După ştiinţa noastră, la această „colecţie” au
avut acces, practic, două persoane. În primul rând, Márton Roska, care a studiat colecţia şi, pornind de la aceasta, a făcut verificarea stratigrafică de la Turdaş publicând apoi, cunoscutul Repertoriu (Roska, 1941). Apoi, spre sfârşitul anilor ’50, colecţia a fost studiată şi reorganizată de Nicolae Vlassa. Nu ştim cu ce s-a soldat această reorganizare şi dacă s-a întocmit o documentaţie aferentă. Nu ştim nici dacă, după dispariţia lui Vlassa, s-a mai ocupat cineva, sau a răspuns într-un fel, de această colecţie. Sunt doar câteva din multiplele întrebări care vor cere, în timp, răspunsuri documentate, care s-ar putea să nu fie străine de problema tăbliţelor. Asupra unora vom reveni în paginile următoare. Deocamdată aş remarca, în treacăt, faptul că mormântul de inhumaţie, găsit în complex, sau în asociere cu acesta, a fost identificat, după căutări asidue în depozitele muzeului clujean, abia în ultimii ani, de Gh. Lazarovici şi Marco Merlini. Acesta din urmă întocmeşte un amplu şi documentat studiu, aflat sub tipar.4 În această situaţie, argumente în favoarea cronologiei relative privind tăbliţele vor trebui căutate, în continuare, pe alte căi şi cu alte mijloace (stratigrafice, tipologico-stilistice, comparative etc., etc.). Dintr-un anumit punct de vedere, s-ar putea spune că am revenit la punctul iniţial, cel puţin în sensul că este puţin probabil să mai găsim argumente stratigrafice peremptorii fără a recurge la cercetările sistematice de anvergură, eventual exhaustive. Natura sitului de la Tărtăria, poziţia sa geografică în contextul carpato-dunărean şi complexitatea problematicii de ordin cultural-istoric pe care descoperirea tăbliţelor le-a generat, obligă la o astfel de abordare. Practicarea unor sondaje întâmplătoare, orientate după simple „intuiţii” sau deducţii, bazate pe coroborarea selectivă a datelor cunoscute şi a ipotezelor formulate până acum nu pot duce decât la înmulţirea ipotezelor şi a semnelor de întrebare asupra tăbliţelor şi aşa destul de abundente şi contradictorii………………………….
Din păcate, semnele de întrebare în loc să scadă s-au înmulţit. Simpla parcurgere a bibliografiei existente ilustrează în bună parte şi motivele. De pildă, nimeni nu poate înţelege cum s-a putut săpa, preleva, transporta şi depozita un astfel de complex fără a sesiza prezenţa tăbliţelor, indiferent de starea lor de conservare şi, poate, tocmai datorită acestei „stări”.5 – De ce conţinutul acestui complex a fost împărţit în locuri diferite de depozitare, fără legături între ele şi fără a fi făcute însemnările de rigoare? – De ce şi pe ce criterii unele piese şi/sau materiale au fost publicate de autor, selectiv, iar altele niciodată? – De ce, în ciuda publicării unei bune părţi a descoperirii, în special a tăbliţelor, la un an după scoaterea la iveală a complexului (1962) şi a interesului enorm pe care l-a suscitat conţinutul acesteia s-a impus un „secret” total, parcă menit să dea uitării tot ceea ce era mai puţin convenabil, de neînţeles sau greu de explicat? Oricum, asupra materialelor (descoperirilor) de la Tărtăria s-a instaurat un fel de embargo. După tăbliţe s-au făcut copii care au fost expuse în muzeu
5 Este, cred, momentul să subliniem faptul că, deşi conform unei înţelegeri prealabile, girată de profesorul K. Horedt, făceam parte amândoi din colectivul de cercetare de la Tărtăria şi Pianu de Jos, colectiv care, sub acelaşi gir, urma să confrunte, pe viu, rezultatele obţinute, inclusiv stratigrafia celor două staţiuni, săpăturile începute împreună au fost întrerupte din motive personale, de sănătate cred, după aproximativ zece zile. Am aşteptat, împreună cu studentul L. Attila, întoarcerea lui N. Vlassa după care, tot conform înţelegerii iniţiale am deschis şantierul de la Pianu, urmând ca la întoarcerea sa, N. Vlassa să mă contacteze pentru a hotărî procedura de urmat. Nu am mai primit nici o veste până în anul următor (1962) când am aflat despre descoperire şi publicarea acesteia în Dacia (N. Vlassa….). Ar mai fi de adăugat şi faptul că Laszló Attila, în prezent prof. univ. dr. în arheologie la Universitatea „Al. I. Cuza” Iaşi, deşi a participat, de la începutul până la sfârşitul săpăturilor din 1961, nu a văzut – după propriile sale mărturii, repetate – nici momentul descoperirii şi nici vreuna din piesele complexului. Tăbliţele le-a văzut pentru prima oară, la muzeu, după conservarea lor. Acesta pare a fi motivul care l-a determinat pe Laszlo Attila să se preocupe îndeaproape de cercetările Zsofiei Torma într-un amplu şi documentat studiu ce ar putea fi considerat, implicit, ca o invitaţie pentru reluarea studiului asupra activităţii şi a colecţiei Zsofiei Torma, în lumina noilor cercetări privind utilizarea şi semnificaţia semnelor grafice în preistorie (Laszlo Attila, 1991, p. 37-50).
şi puse la dispoziţia cercetătorilor. Tot cu titlu informativ suntem nevoiţi să menţionăm faptul că, în ciuda insistenţelor noastre repetate, nu am reuşit să vedem tăbliţele „în original” şi să le fotografiem decât în anul 1998, cu aprobarea specială a domnului director Ioan Pisso, fapt pentru care îi mulţumim călduros şi pe această cale. Cu acel prilej am putut constata, chiar şi cu ochiul liber, că tăbliţele par să fie confecţionate dintr-o „gresie” compactă şi nu conţin materiale organice. Perforaţia tăbliţelor a fost realizată cu ajutorul unui vârf ascuţit, probabil o unealtă de silex, iar operaţiunea a fost executată de pe ambele laturi, fapt pentru care orificiul nu este cilindric, ci conic, cu partea de la mijloc mai mică. O astfel de formă a orificiului nu se putea obţine decât în cazul în care tăbliţele erau compacte şi nu moi, pe cale de descompunere, fapt pentru care, potrivit afirmaţiei descoperitorului, ele au trebuit consolidate prin reardere, în laborator. Poziţia orificiului în cuprinsul tăbliţei este în aşa fel poziţionată încât să nu deranjeze inscripţia, ceea ce ne determină să credem că a fost practicat ulterior, în scopul folosirii tăbliţei ca amuletă. Despre sesizarea nepotrivirilor de ordin cronologic dintre tăbliţe şi contextul cultural-istoric la care acestea erau raportate, deocamdată atât. Putem adăuga, eventual, că sunt suficiente pentru a pune problema originalităţii acestora. Sunt şi în prezent mulţi specialişti care se îndoiesc – pe drept sau nu – că tăbliţele aparţin epocii şi contextului în care se pretinde că au fost găsite………………..
.……………………………………………………………………………………….
J.Makkay respinge încercările unor cercetători (Georgiev 1969: 8; Gimbutas 1973: 12; Renfrew 1969: 47, Pl. 5 XXXI; 1970: 199-211) de a interpreta posibilele semne „grafice” descoperite în sud-estul Europei ca dovezi ale invenţiei scrierii în acelaşi timp sau chiar înaintea începerii acestui proces în Mesopotamia, în condiţiile socio-istorice cunoscute, şi de unde s-au răspândit în regiunile adiacente. El le considera simple imitaţii (Makkay 1976: 13-31, Pl. 20-21), mai mult sau mai puţin reuşite, ale unor modele mesopotamiene. Makkay afirmă că acestea au fost făcute mai mult cu un scop magic, „fără nici o cunoaştere sau înţelegere reală a scrisului” (Makkay 1976: 24). Pentru a-şi susţine teza, el se bazează pe binecunoscuta tendinţă a populaţiilor „primitive” de a atribui anumite puteri protectoare semnelor grafice şi scrisului în general (Makkay 1976: 24). În esenţă, noi acceptăm părerea lui J. Makkay, în special când afirmaţiile acestuia se referă la „imitaţii” cum ar fi tăbliţele de la Tărtăria . Totuşi nu putem ignora larga răspândire (în Orientul Apropiat, dar şi în sud-estul Europei) a unor reprezentări magico-religioase cu caracter simbolic. Ulterior, mai ales în aria sud-orientală, acestea au fost transformate în pictograme cu sensuri grafice.
K. Conferinţele Bibliotecii ASTRA ales le-a amplificat, aceea a tăbliţelor de la Tărtăria, vor rămâne, încă o bună
Întrebările fundamentale legate, în bună parte, de descoperirea care le-a generat şi mai ales le-a amplificat, aceea a tăbliţelor de la Tărtăria, vor rămâne, încă o bună perioadă de timp, sub semnul întrebării şi în atenţia continuă a cercetătorilor. În esenţă, ele pot şi trebuie rezumate, lapidar, astfel:
Unde, când, cum şi în ce condiţii (context) au apărut tăbliţele? Răspunsul se află încă sub imperiul enigmei. Ne găsim în situaţia, paradoxală, să putem încerca mai degrabă formularea unor ipoteze privind natura şi semnificaţia lor cultural-istorică decât consideraţii cât de cât articulate privind originea lor. Deocamdată pare a fi singura cale care ar putea duce spre o încercare de lămurire, fie şi parţială, a problemei. Partea, aparent cea mai simplă, a provenienţei acestora este învăluită, încă, în mister. Sigur ne putem întreba şi de ce s-a ajuns în această situaţie. Nici răspunsul la această întrebare nu este atât de simplu pe cât ar putea părea la prima vedere. Încercarea de a „transforma” unele ipoteze de lucru, în „teze”, poate duce, uneori la tentaţia de a găsi explicaţii sau argumente „peremptorii” de natură să eludeze şi uneori chiar să elimine dovezile care deranjează soluţia sau ipoteza avansată la un moment dat. Uneori, cazuri izolate de acest fel, cum ar fi cel al tăbliţelor de la Tărtăria, pot genera o întreagă literatură, bazată pe criterii mai mult sau mai puţin obiective şi/ sau reale. Găsirea unui vinovat cu orice preţ, mergând până la acuzaţia de rea intenţie sau chiar falsuri intenţionate, ar părea cea mai la îndemână. Si o astfel de soluţie a fost, precum ştim, vehiculată. Dar ne-ar fi oare de folos? Nu ar putea fi şi aceasta o pistă falsă care ar putea duce la ocultarea şi vicierea soluţiei? Dar şi înlăturarea din start a unei astfel de posibilităţi ar fi poate la fel de păguboasă. În orice caz, nu ne-ar ajuta, în chip real, la clarificarea lucrurilor. Poate ar trebui să ne întrebăm dacă nu cumva de situaţia în care ne aflăm se fac vinovate doar unele persoane şi manierele „de lucru” folosite de acestea. Nu cumva viciul esenţial, nu numai în cazul în speţă, porneşte de la metodologia şi terminologia folosite în cercetarea arheologică în general şi a celei româneşti în special? În ce ne priveşte, am încercat, în lucrarea de faţă, să evidenţiem date,observaţii şi ipoteze mai puţin cunoscute şi/ sau uzitate, din varii motive, care ne-ar putea apropia, poate, de desluşirea acestei „enigme”. Fără intenţia de a acuza sau apăra pe cineva ci, doar de a ne apropia de înţelegerea unui fenomen care, într-un fel, prin omisiuni voite sau nu, ori prin lipsa reală, deocamdată, a unor date certe, verificabile, s-a transformat, în timp, într-un „mit al mitului”, aşa cum plastic şi inspirat l-a definit eseistul şi istoricul Marco Merlini (2006). Accentul pus pe aşa numita interpretare, cu orice preţ, a unor descoperiri eclatante, de tip „bombă”, ar putea duce, aparent, la rezolvarea definitivă a unor probleme „cheie” pentru o serie de chestiuni considerate majore pentru diverse epoci, ignorând, sau chiar ocolind o metodologie adecvată şi rigoarea care trebuie să înceapă cu săpăturile, organizarea, prelucrarea, întreţinerea şi valorificarea colecţiilor. Cu înlocuirea sau completarea unor mijloace, metode şi chiar a unei terminologii, pe cât de stufoasă, pe atât de aproximativă, cu altele, adecvate epocii pe care o traversăm. Inclusiv a informaticii, dar reale şi aplicate, nu formale. Din acest impas nu se poate ieşi decât printr-o reluare metodică a vechilor cercetări, asociate cu ample cercetări inter- şi multidisciplinare. Pe scară largă şi fără idei preconcepute, bazate pe paradigme forţate sau pe intuiţii şi „inspiraţii” mai mult ori mai puţin „geniale”. Este nevoie de perseverenţă şi răbdare. Implicit de asumarea riscului unor posibile greşeli, atât în ce priveste direcţiile de abordare, cât şi a metodologiei aplicate, a mijloacelor folosite, în egală măsură în cercetarea practic-aplicativă, de teren, cât şi în interpretarea şi valorificarea teoretică a rezultatelor. Atari situaţii şi problemele schiţate, doar, în treacăt de noi nu sunt specifice numai pentru arheologia românească, fapt pentru care în anii ’60-’70 s-au declanşat amplele discuţii din cadrul aşa numitei Noi Arheologii (New Archaeology). Din păcate problemele, teoretice şi practice, dezbătute nu au ajuns la o soluţie general acceptată. A rămas în sarcina arheologilor, aparţinând diverselor epoci şi domenii, să caute şi să găsească mijloacele şi metodele adecvate, în funcţie de specificul fiecărei epoci şi zone geografice.”

_____________________________________________________________

VI.OBSERVATIILE SI PAREREA MEA LEGATE DE VARSTA TABLITELOR

Observatiile si parerea mea:

a- Nu se stie precis, mai exact deloc, unde se aflau artefactele asociate tablitelor si nici tablitele in cadrul complexului ritualic.

b- Nu exista nici-o legatura directa intre oase si tablite si in consecinta nici intre varsta lor (oasele: 6.200 B.C., tablitele: exclus 6.200-4.500), varsta:” ?XX? B.C.”                                                                                  Consecinta nesuprapunerii varstei oaselor cu cea a tablitelor este la fel de grava in sensul ca poate nu exista “Doamna de la Tartaria” si nici o legatura directa a ei cu tablitele.

c- Datorita faptului ca avem pe cele trei tablite dupa mine trei tipuri de scriere, varsta celor 3 impreuna nu poate fi decat varsta celui mai “recent” tip de scris. Avand in vedere ca semnele de pe tablita rotunda (in special jumatatea superioara) pot reprezenta :

– silabe caz in care varsta poate fi 2.000-1000 BC sau

-litere, caz in care varsta poate fi chiar 800 B.C. -500 B.C. ( litere  arhaice grecesti sau alfabet epichoric cretan).

Rezulta ca, varsta ( cel putin cea estimata de mine): posibil, intre 2.500 – 500 B.C

 Din https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_A

Writing system Geographical area Time span[a]
Cretan Hieroglyphic Crete c. 2100 – 1700 BC
Linear A Aegean islands (KeaKytheraMelosThera), and Greek mainland (Laconia) c. 2500 – 1450 BC
Linear B Crete (Knossos), and mainland (PylosMycenaeThebesTiryns) c. 1450 – 1200 BC

 

Dar ar fi cu adevarat o reala si mare tragedie ca sa apartina erei noastre, daca cineva cunoscand evolutia scrisului a folosit semne apartinand principalelor etape evolutive ale scrisului.

VII.Particularitati tehnice ale tablitelor,inclusiv tip de scriere

Tablitele ar putea fi exemplul perfect de ilustrare al principalelor etape in evolutia scrisului. Poate asa ar exemplifica u profesor si arata elevilor aceste etape:

– etapa pur pictografica .Faza proto-cuneiforma.(tablita dreptunghiulara cu caprita)

-etapa ideografica-logografica Tot faza proto-cuneiforma (pictograme+logograme) dar o poate reprezenta si pe cea in care se foloseau silabograme (tablita dreptunghiulara cu gaura)

-etapa proto-cuneiforma sau cea in care se foloseau silabograme sau chiar faza alfabetica/litere (tablita rotunda).

Din https://www.ling.upenn.edu/courses/ling001/reading_writing.html

Type of writing Meaning
Pictographic Elements are pictures, combined in graphically-interpretable patterns (e.g. temporal sequence or spatial relationship)
Ideographic Elements denote ideas, combined in a logical fashion
Logographic Elements denote words or morphemes, combined morphosyntactically
SCRIS !  
Syllabic Elements denote syllables, combined phonologically
Alphabetic Elements denote phonemes (more or less), combined phonologically

Din https://www.ling.upenn.edu/courses/ling001/reading_writing.html
Type of writing Meaning
Pictographic Elements are pictures, combined in graphically-interpretable patterns (e.g. temporal sequence or spatial relationship)
Ideographic Elements denote ideas, combined in a logical fashion
Logographic Elements denote words or morphemes, combined morphosyntactically
SCRIS !
Syllabic Elements denote syllables, combined phonologically
Alphabetic Elements denote phonemes (more or less), combined phonologically

https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-rebus-principle
the rebus principle is the use of existing symbols, such as pictograms, purely for their sounds regardless of their meaning, to represent new words.

VIII.PRESUPUNERI PRIVIND SCRIBUL/SCRIITORUL

Dupa toate aparentele, o persoana a vrut sa arate altcuiva sau altora care sant principiile care au stat si stau la baza scrisului.
In tablitele de scoala sumerienii nu procedau asa, puneau elevii sa scrie liste cu denumirile principalelor meserii sau ale produselor folosite (cereale, animale,etc).
Nu exista nici un alt precedent in lume inafara de timpurile moderne, unde cineva sa explice principiul rebus (folosirea pictogramei a ceva pentru ca mai apoi derivat din ea sa se genereze o noua notiune sau a-I asocia un sunet legat de acea pictograma initiala)
Cum aceste tablite constituie un gen de unicat/singleton, spre deosebire de ariile la fel dezvoltate cultural-econoic (dar care au ajuns la faza apropiata scrisului ,valea Indusului, scrierea proto-elamita, scrierile hieroglifica cretana, linear A, si chiar la scris, v. linear B unde exista zeci si sute de tablite), presupun ca in aria Vinca-Turdas nu se descoperise scrisul, nici macar proto-scrierea, asa incat nu exista alta alternativa decat o origine Orientala sau Egeeana.
Ori direct (scrise acolo) ori indirect (cineva le-a aratat celor de aici), ideea si principiul au fost aduse din sud-est (Orient, dar cu sanse mult-mult mai mari din aria Egeeana).Ele nu au fost scrise in Sumer si aduse de acolo intrucat scrisul nu este exact sumerian si nici nu vad cum ar fi putut fi aduse niste obiecte de lut care se pot sparge mai ales fiind purtate ca pandantiv de la o asemenea distanta. Scrisul nu este sumerian, exemple pe care le dau eu:exemple pe care le dau eu:

Ex.1

Semnul din stanga nu este tocmai semnul proto-cuneiform Ga2 Din https://cdli.ucla.edu/tools/SignLists/protocuneiform/archsigns.html

 Si nici cel Ku:

Ci poate fi semnul PA3 din scrierea linear A.Extras din:

Richard Vallance Janke | Minoan Linear A, Linear B, Knossos …

 

semn folosit mai apoi ca si litera Eta arhaica (archaic Eta,”Heta”) pronuntata initial”He” apoi mai tarziu “E”.Din Britannica.com “H-letter”:

Aceasta letera Eta/Heta nu provine din Linar A PA3 ci direct de la fenicieni (la origine din vechea scriere canaanita)

Din https://www.britannica.com/topic/H-letter                                                                               “H, eighth letter of the alphabet. It corresponds to Semitic cheth and Greek eta (Η). It may derive from an early symbol for fence. In the early Greek alphabets a form with three horizontal bars and the simpler form H were both widely distributed. In Etruscan the prevailing form was similar to the early Greek form, and the same or a similar form occurs in very early Latin inscriptions………………………… In a few inscriptions from TheraNaxos, and several other localities the letter was used with syllabic value; that is, it included he, thus showing its old consonantal and its new vocalic value at the same time. Eventually, as a result of the spread of the Ionic alphabet, its use for the long vowel e or η became general throughout Greece, while its consonantal value as the aspirate h passed from the western Greek alphabets into the Etruscan alphabets and then into the Latin and other alphabets of ancient Italy.”

Dinhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heta                                                                                           In dialects that still had the /h/ sound as part of their phonological systems, including early Athens, the same letter continued to be used in its consonantal function. Just like vocalic Eta, it could occur in a number of glyph variants in different local varieties of the alphabet, including one shaped like a square “8” similar to the original Phoenician (inline), but also a plain square (inline), a crossed square (inline), shapes with two horizontal (inlineinline) or with diagonal bars (Greek Eta diagonal.svgGreek Eta diagonal-2-bars.svg).[1][2]

 

Various spellings of the name “Hera” in ancient Greek. Left: original spelling, right: modern transcription. Red: consonantal “Heta”, blue: vocalic “Eta”.
1.) archaic non-Ionic
2.) classical Ionic
3.) intermediate (e.g. Delphi)
4.) intermediate (e.g. Tarentum)
5.) late antiquity.

 

The name Hippolytos inscribed on a Corinthian black-figure column-krater, ca. 575–550 BC, showing square-8-shaped consonantal Heta (inline), zigzag-shaped Iota (inline), archaic Pi (inline), and M-shaped San instead of Sigma.

During the classical era, more dialects adopted the new Ionian vocalic Eta (as Athens did around c. 400 BC). As many of these dialects nevertheless still also pronounced /h/, they faced the problem of distinguishing between their own old consonantal symbol and the new vocalic symbol. Some dialects, including classical Attic, simply omitted the marking of the /h/-sound. In others (for instance Rhodes), the same symbol was used in both functions.[3] Others distinguished between glyph variants, for instance in Delphi by using the closed square sign (inline) for /h/, and the open H for the vowel. “

SEMNUL H cu 3 bare oriz/inclinate

43px-greek_eta_08-svg

s-a raspandit in toata mediterana.Din Anatolia folosit in scrierea cariana ca E, pana la etruscani,alfabetul venetic, cel arhaic latin,etc. si pana in Iberia unde avea alte conotatii (pt.”Bu”)

Ex.2

Semnul din dreapta H-lui P/D?

Semnul P a fost folosit pentru R, dar semnul D a fost folosit de greci ba pentru R (Ionia), ba pentru D (Argos, Euboea) in diferite zone.

Ex.3

Imaginea din http://aplaceofbrightness.blogspot.com/2008/11/moonlight-in-romania-tartaria-tablets_21.html a lui Keyth Massey

Nu este semnul proto-cuneiform GAR din https://cdli.ucla.edu/tools/SignLists/protocuneiform/archsigns.html

care se citeste Ninda (cereale,paiine), cu toate ca primul D are o linie in el.

46072086_505746126580104_1702320058820198400_nMai repede semnul “SUR”

46142966_184720522433794_1955080370248482816_nSUMERIENII SI PROTO-ELAMITII TOT TIMPUL AU FACUT NUMERELE PRIN IMPRIMAREA CU CAPATUL NEASCUTIT AL CUIULUI !

fig2-2

Imprimarea se facea cu aceste unelte obtinute din trestie:                                                    Din Cuneiform Writing Techniques cdli.ox.ac.uk/wiki/doku.php?id=cuneiform_writing_techniques

 

Jan 25, 2016 – The reed stylus.
 

http://www.archeo.ru/izdaniya-1/archaeological-news/annotations-of-issues/arheologicheskie-vesti.-spb-1994.-vyp.-3.-annotacii#section-22 ON THE QUASI-SUMERIAN TABLETS FROM TARTARIA A.A.VAIMAN                                                                                                                                                                          “It has already been mentioned that not just the signs (possibly all of them) were borrowed, but other things as well, including the material for writing, the rectangular or round shape of the tablets (the latter occurs, although rarely, in layer IV of Uruk), the manner in which the text is divided into parts by means of vertical and horizontal incisions, and the technique of writing. However, the borrowed elements are transformed in such a way that one should speak of an independent Tartarian script rather than of a Tartarian version of the proto-Sumerian script. First and foremost, people who created this script, in contrast to the Sumerians, used only knife-shaped styluses.”
Adica pt. Tartaria s-a folosit numai cu un varf ascutit, semnele fiind zgariate si nu imprimate !
File:Greek alphabet variants.png   From Wikimedia Commons, the free media repository

Parerea mea este ca sant sanse mari ca tablitele sa provina din aria Egeeana,mai precis de aici (Keos,Syros ?):

The Cycladic Civilization  Circa 3300 to 1100 BCE https://www.humanjourney.us/ideas-that-shaped-our-modern-world-section/the-minoan-and-mycenaean-civilizations/

cycadesislands

Eu banuiesc ca in legatura cu comertul/migratii/extinderea surselor de metale, comercianti sau mestesugari in prelucrarea metalelor au adus aceste tablite.
Aceasta ipoteza corespunde cu cea a multor arheologi (Makkai & all)

https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-rebus-principle
the rebus principle is the use of existing symbols, such as pictograms, purely for their sounds regardless of their meaning, to represent new words.
___________________________________________________________________

IX.Presupuneri privind rolul tablitelor

Aici pe moment se complica lucrurile intrucat teoretic apar urmatoarele variante:
– rol economic, fiind prezente in ambele simboluri precum cel vegetal, simbolul tauras si eventual numere.
– rol pur ritualic
-rol didactic
-rol combinat>> exclus!

Daca rolul era economic atunci nu vad de ce apar simboluri religioase. Acest fapt de fapt este foarte posibil pentru cazul urmator, si anume daca este cazul unei jertfe/ofrande facute unor zeitati.

Daca erau tablite folosite de reprezentantul, preotul unei comunitati, ma asteptam ca acesta sa foloseasca un singur tip de scriere corespunzator epocii si locului in care traia si acest mod se exprima, sau spunea ce avea de spus.Pot aparea in acest caz elemente ca si cereale si animale (capre,taurasi) cu o anume cantitate sau intr-un anumit numar asociat cu zeitatile, zeitati prezente in special pe tablita dreptunghiulara cu gaura.. Rol magic, religios exprimat prin simbolurile religioase din tablita dreptunghiulara cu gaura iar ca mesaj verbal prin semnele prezente pe tablita rotunda.Rolul tablitei pictografice este acela de ajutor pentru interpretare.
– Pot avea un rol secundar sau principal didactic.Pentru ca altfel nu vad folosirea a doua feluri de limbaj, pictografic si simboluri/ideograme/icoane.

In sensul in care rolul ar fi didactic aceeasta varianta are o posibilitate extrema foarte neplacuta.Aceea de a avea de a face cu un artefact destu de sau foarte nou, acesta putand fi privit si ca un fals/dubios.
Fals si dubios nu datorita faptului ca nu le-ar fi scris cineva in trecut, ci in raport cu faptul ca nu mai au nici pe departe vechimea estimata si marile asteptari ne-ar indrepta spre un gen de “fass”.
_________________________________________________________________________________

X.Modalitati de apropiere de un presupus scris

Nu stiu cum sa incep…am incercat sa depistez in ce sistem de scriere regasesc cele mai multe di semne.In ordine descrescatoare le-am gasit in scrierile
– sumeriana (proto-cuneiforma)
-Linear A,B
-cariana.
Important este faptul ca am fost capabil si am reusit sa realizez apropieri/teste/tentative valabile de citire relativ usor si fluent folosind, ( aici vad ca ma repet):

– Biblioteca de semne sumeriene proto-cuneiforme

– Silabarele presupuse pentru scriere hieroglifica cretan si aceea a scrierii minoane linear A (nedescifrate) precum si acelea a scrierii linear B (descifrata/Ventris)

Iar mai apoi am folosit pentru tentativele de citire a tablitei rotunde scrierile arhaica greaca si eteo-cretana.

Desi aveam majoritatea semnelor in scrierile Anatoliene, (fiind focalizat in special asupra celei cariene), datorita diversitatii alfabetelor folosite in diferite arii (Egipt, Anatolia) si datorita limbii foarte putin cunoscute, nu am avansat mai deloc in aceasta directie.

Este foarte important ca reusind asta, am realizat ca exista un fel de legatura intre simbolurile sacre folosite in Orient (Sumer) si aria Egeeana (Creta)

Exemple:
Este vorba de simbolul vegetal sumerian SE si echivalentul din Linear A,B semnul Te ambelefolosite pentru cereale. Apoi semnul sumerian Ararma pentru capra/vitel si cel din linear A, Mu iar in linear B, Ma pentru vitel.
Apoi semnul sumerian Sa pentru uscare iar in linear A,B poate reprezentqa candela.
Semnul complex sumerian pentru templul soarelui/simbolul orasului Larsa iar in Linear A,B probabil semnul zeitei ceresti A-sa-sa-ra.
Mai avem semnul sumerian Ku pentru argint,pur,; in linear A,B reprezinta silaba Pa3.
Semnul sumerian Pa are echivalent,culmea in semnul din Linear A,B tot Pa.
Exemplele pot continua, dar cel mai bine le veti putea vedea toate in postarile incercarilor de citire.
Mi-au fost de mare folos si am avut un gen de confirmare in studiile cercetatorilor E.Papakitsos si I.Kenanidis in care se evidentiaza ca influenta sumeriana s-ar fi exercitat direct de catre sumerieni, pornind de la semnele proto-cuneiforme, intrucat (afirma dansii) primii colonizatori ai insulei cret au fost sumerieni.
Deasemenea ei sustin ca exista un fillum al scrierii proto-lineare Egeene (deci si cretane) pornind de la semnele proto-cuneiforme sumeriene.
Inca si mai mult, limba si scrierea eteo-cretana au la origine limba si scrierea sumeriana Am facut cate un studiu critic asupra fiecareia din urmatoarele lucrari:
-Legatura si presupusa origine a scrierii proto-lineare cretane din cea proto-cuneiforma sumeriana /E.Papakitsos & I.Kenanidis
-Citirea “sumeriana” a tablitelor R.Kolev
-citirea “sumeriana “ A.A.Vaiman ,
in blogurile mele: Tartaria writing.wordpress.com si tartariatablets.com
_________________________________________________________________________________

XI.Evolutia si stadiul actual al cercetarii scrierilor nedescifrate inca

Nota.Nu voi face referire la nici o limba care nu ar avea legatura cu civilizatiile vechi din Europa, cum ar fi scrierea Rongo-Rongo.

-scrierea de pe valea Indusului.Progrese dar nedescifrata.

-scrierea proto-Elamita.Progrese, aproape descifrata

-scrierile hieroglifica cretana ,Linear A si cea Eteo-Cretana.Progrese, Nedescifrate.Obstacolul major nu este constituit de semne ci de limba, deocamdata necunoscuta.Nedescifrate.
_________________________________________________________

XII. Stadiul actual in lume al cercetarii tablitelor de la Tartaria

Exista interpretarile sumeriene ale tablitelor de la Tartaria ale D-lor Rumen Kolev(Bg.) si A,A,Vaiman(Ru). Prezinta unele lipsuri,inadvertente si greseli neintentionate (necunoastere,graba?).Interpretate corect in proportii variabile 60-80%.Am completat ,corectat si exprimat observatii pentru fiecare lucrare.
Parerea mea este ca NU SANT TABLITE SUMERIENE AUTENTICE.NU ESTE SCRIS SUMERIAN 100%.Par a fi mai degraba de mare inspiratie sumeriana! (Bine zice A.A.Vaiman in titlul sau “Asupra tablitelor quasi-sumeriene de la Tartaria”).
El enumera un numar de cca 6 observatii conform carora tablitele nu respect modul de lucru si organizare sumerian.
Iar eu adaug:Nici tehnica, sumerienii foloseau exclusiv si inca de la inceput partea retezata a cuiului/cuneus cu care inscriptionau cifrele !

( Acestea sant cele mai notabile.Mai exista multe altele care fac interpretari fanteziste:
-ca tribul avea zeitatea Saue si si-au omorat conducatorul in al 40-lea an de domnie al lui
-apropiere de scrierea linear B (I-ye-re-ya,etc)
-folosind terminologia Vedica
-ca tablite numerice
-reprezentare a unor constelatii
Ma abtin sa spun ceva despre ele.

____________________________________________________________
XIII.Concluzii preliminare privind scrisul

Faptul ca tablita dreptunghiulare are aproape toate semnele in casete separate denota ca nu este vorba de cuvinte formate prin semne aferente unor foneme ci de logograme (ideograme care reprezinta un cuvant).

Desi se apropie extrem de mult de scrierea sumeriana (Uruk tarziu, scriere proto-cuneiforma) dupa mine dar si cf.obs. A.A.Vaiman nu se incadreaza complet in scrierea sumeriana.Bulgarul Rumen Kolev este tot cam pe acolo, desi asirolog Dl.Vaiman il depaseste intrucat are lucrari privind semnele proto-cuneiforme
Dar tablitele se pot apropia in mare atat de scrierea sumeriana cat si de cele minoana (linearA) si miceniana (LinearB) prin simbolurile religioase (cumva comune?) prezente (icoane) si care teoretic si practic nu necesita o limba anume pentru a fi interpretate.

Simbolurile pentru :
Sumerian “templul soarelui”<> Lin.A,B zeita Asasara,
cereale sum.Se<> lin.A,B “te”(sitos,cereale),
sumeria vitel=zeitate solara<>zeita Ma,
sum.Zag Linear A, “Labrys”
sum.Sa”a usca”<>linA,B “altar”?, ar fi putut fi suficiente pentru ritualuri.

Se pare ca scribul nu stapanea decat in mica masura scrisul.
Este posibila si urmatoarea situatie:
Scribul foloseste simboluri vechi cu inteles de-abea tinut minte aproximativ, si sa contina scris propriu-zis (ex. De tip arhaic grec DOAR IN JUMATATEA SUPERIOARA A TABLITEI ROTUNDE!
Exemplu de acest gen in care este oferit un sprijin pentru citire:

Tablita pictografica: zeitate-spirit, ied, cereale,

In tablita dreptunghiulara cu gaura avem simbolurile: zeitate(X-ul acela complicat), animal,ied (cel cu coarne-urechi),cereale (acel spic)

Pe tablita rotunda in jumat, de sus putem avea in stanga: “HP”:HeRo:”domn”

sau “hed,ed,ede” “mananca/ied”in stanga si in dreapta:

cereale (semnul +++++ “Se,Su,Te”), iar prin semnele DDoo sau DDou “DDiu,Dziu/”zeu” sau Didou,Dedou:”da!”

Citite toate impreuna: HeRo Didu; “Doamne da !” sau
Ede didou: “da iedu”/ “mananc da !”

Prin prezenta simbolurilor religioase cereale=paiine, a taurului solar, zeu, labrys,puteau fi folosite, chiar prin intelegerea lor partiala ca purtand semne cu o mare putere asupra influentarii zeitatilor, dar si asupra participantilor la ritual.
________________________________________________________________________________

XIV.Pregatirea si abilitatile minim necesare pentru cercetarea unor inscriptii (in particular a unora gen Tartaria presupus a fi foarte vechi)

-cunoasterea unor cuvinte de baza in limbi vechi (sanscrita,sumeriana,minoana-miceniana), si celor care constituie radacinile limbii proto- Indo-Europene (in total cca 20-50.000?)
-cunoasterea si recunoastere unor semne din libraria semnelor proto-cuneiforme si a silabogramelor din Linear A/B.
______________________________________________________________________________

XV.Cele mai notabile apropieri de o posibila interpretare corecta ale altor cercetatori

1.A.A.Vaiman (A realizat ca si mine ca nu se incadreaza complet in scrierea sumeriana).

2.Bulgarul Rumen Kolev este tot cam pe acolo, desi are specialitatea asirologie Dl.Vaiman il depaseste intrucat are lucrari privind semnele proto-cuneiforme.
Este primul care a propus o interpretare foarte originala a semnelor DDoc ca reprezentand fazele lunii.
3.Marco Merlini.In afara de a-l seconda pe Dl.R.Kolev in interpretarea semnelor DDoc:”fazele lunii” nu are abilitati atat de inalte in a recunoaste semnele care au fost folosite frecvent in trecut in alte arii culturale (Sumer, Creta)

Nota.
Mi-a trecut prin cap ideea absolut traznita ca tablitele ar fi putut constitui un exercitiu al D-nei Zsofia Torma sau altcuiva sau un cadou primit de la tatal sau sau de la altcineva (de la Univ. Din Viena sau Germania ?) cu ocazia primirii titlului de doctor in stiinte

LATIN ABBREVIATIONS:

D.D. (Divinitatis Doctor), “Teacher of Divinity”: [D.D. – Doctores (“Doctors”) D.D. – Donum dedit; Dedicavit (“Gave”, “dedicated”) D.D. – Doctor Divinitatis (“Doctor of Divinity” – i.e. Theology)Ad fontes: Ressources / Abkürzungen / Cappelli online
https://histadfontes02.uzh.ch › down › ab…
For each image of an abbreviation, you can view an image of the corresponding page in Cappelli …. 92, ddoc, decretorum doctor, Latin
HP DDoc
HeRa Decretorum Doctor
“Lady decree teacher” !??
_____________________________________________________________

XVI.CELE MAI RECENTE IDEI

1..Vedeti Dumneavoatra, acel semn gen H, provine din alfabetul vechi canaanit si folosit mai apoi de fenicieni (litera chet,het pronuntat Kha, ch ca in Koch) si in scrierea veche ebraica.

Se zice ca grecii l-au luat de la fenicieni.Este adevarat ca semnul a mai fost folosit inainte in scrierile Libear A si Linear B ca reprezentand consoana PA3.

Interesant ca in final nu a ajuns in alfabetul grecesc din silabarele A,B ci, zic cercetatorii, ca provine direct de la fenicieni (foinica gramata/litere feniciene)

Tot interesant este faptul ca grecii l-au folosit mai mult in forma “boxed eta”/cu contur inchis “cutie” (ca 1 mai jos) pentru sunetul H, si mai apoi in mod generalizat pentru E.

In schimb a difuzat in forma deschisa cu 3 bare “orizontale” (forma 2, de mai sus) in intreaga arie Mediterana (in vechiul alfabet latin, la etruscani, alfabetul venetic, in cele italice, ca reprezentand litera si sunetul H. (A ajuns pana in Iberia unde avea alte acceptiuni fonetice.Mai rar a ajuns in Anatolia ca “E”).

De aici eu deduc, datorita prezentei acelei forme particulare, ca reprezinta litera H/heta mai repede decat E (eta).Odata pentru ca daca provine din aria Egeeana (Atica?) pronuntia H este mai veche si in al 2-lea rand daca nu provine de atunci si acolo, am impresia ca fatorita faptului ca nu este forma inchisa, ca provine din difuzia alfabetul arhaic grecesc in aria Mediterana, (tot ca H).

Eu m-am gandit si am incercat o interpretare conform scrierilor minoane (Linear A) si miceneene (Linear B), dar se pare ca nu ar fi in acea scriere, cel putin semnele din jumatatea superioara a tablitei rotunde. Nu sant de acolo pentru ca in acele scrieri (1800=1000 B.C.) nu au folosit deloc semnul D. Acesta apare pentru prima oara in alfabetele locale grecesti ca reprezentand ba D intr-un loc ba R intr-altul.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSVvbCpqMKQOlowoDx1i6JfJJ7k8Gbc2t0CmnJ0jyjstb5O2KVG

2.Aceasta aparitie relativ tarzie (800-500 B.C.) a formei grafice D in scris ne blocheaza posibilitatea atribuirii unei varste foarte vechi, Dimpotriva, ar putea fi deranjant de noi, caz in care multa lume va fi deceptionata (printre care si eu).

Este foarte posibil ca numai jumatatea de sus a tablitei rotunde sa contina un mesaj scris explicit.Partea de jos stanga ar putea cumva doar in extrem sa contina litere (Ex. Q,CC si Z) dar partea din dreapta jos in mod clar contine simboluri religioase>> Un altar in stanga (dupa cu si multi altii au exprimat aceasta parere)

96ae26de29316fffd09ad87e6ee7f7e2

iar in dreapta simbolul unei zeitati astrale feminine.

LowR-Draw

4.Asa, tablitele inafara faptului ca ar contine simboluri sacre (taur, labrys,etc.) ar putea fi destul de noi.

Nu stiu exact care a fost componenta populatiilor Vechii  Europe (Pelasgii) Cum s-au mixat si cum au interactionat (grecii, macedonenii,ilirii>albanezii?).

Apropos de albanezi, nu stiu cum se face ca limba albaneza este la baza arborelui Indo-European pe de o parte si pe de alta parte cica avem un trecut partial comun.Albanezii au folosit alfabetele altora, din care au derivat mai tarziu unul asemanator, dar propriu.

Balkan sprachbund – Wikipedia
https://en.m.wikipedia.org › wiki › Balka…
The Balkan sprachbund or Balkan language area is the ensemble of areal …. Also, Greek appears to be only peripheral to the Balkan language area, lacking some important features

Am avea in albaneza:                HD DDoc = HR  RRoc = here rrok

1,000 Most Common Albanian Words (with AUDIO) – 101Languages.net
www.101languages.net › albanian › most…
A list of the most commonly spoken Albanian words. Translated into English. … Menu. Albanian Dictionary … Number, Albanian Word, in English …. 183, herë, time ….. 959, hera, time

What is the meaning of the Albanian word rrok? – WordHippo
https://www.wordhippo.com › what-is
English words for the Albanian word rrok. catch · grasp · grip · gripe · raw · snatch · grips · gripped · gripping

Rrok= “termen,sorok”

! Nu intamplator acum cca. 45 de ani,cercet. In orientalistica rusul Boris Perlov a dedus pe ruseste sorok=40 !

2.Asa ma gandesc ca se poate explica acoperirea jumatatii de sus:

Cand tablitele erau purtate la gat cu ajutorul unui snur, (fapt remarcat pentru prima data de Dl. Marco Merlini) :

– Jumatatea de sus, continand un scris (text), daca era vizibil teoretic era accesibil si altor contemporani cu scriitorul,nu se dorea a fi citit de oricine,si avand un caracter oarecum secret,nu era direct accesibil si astfel ascuns.

Acum ma gandesc care ar fi fost posibilele motive:

-un mesaj militar, eventual criptat !? Dar cine avea atata minte, ca avand ceva atat de important sa expuna  spargerii tablitele de lut si implicit pierderea mesajului !?

Apoi ma gandesc ca mesajul avea un caracter religios, sacru si oarecum personal.

Se pare ca si in alte parti anumite religii avea multe aspecte secrete, accesibile doar initiatilor.Poate si numele zeitatilor aveau un caracter secret, ca acela al lui Iehova care nu era voie sa fie pronuntat.dar care culmea a aparut scris in forma tetragrammaton (“4- litere”)IHWH.Poate ceva asemanator avem aici.Nu ma gandesc inca la o perioada mai tarzie, la faptul ca inceputul crestinismului nu a fost agreat, ba dimpotriva.Totusi exista o multitudine de religii, unele de inspiratie orientala cum ar fi Mitraismul.

855a8-ne

Am putea avea Dboc sau mai exact Di b o c (vezi I-ul trasat in interior;nu a fost atent cand sa ridice cuiul si a lasat cativa mm la ridicare) > “zei,cer,divin”

(sau forma DDio > DDiou,DDiu

Ddio; criatore, Pataterno, Paternosto; Lord ~ Dommeneddio; thank ~ deorazia; who in God’s name is that? chi Ddi’ è chillo?; what in God’s name does he want …

Pasquale Scialò, ‎Francesca Seller, ‎Anthony R. DelDonna – 2015 – ‎       Furthermore, the word “dio” is pronounced [ddìo]; “dio” also doubles in Neapolitan. Please refer to Bruno Migliorini, Carlo Tagliavini, and Piero Fiorelli, …)

sicilian proverbs www.dieli.net/SicilyPage/Proverbs/ProvKeyWds.html                            This page contains the complete list of Sicilian keywords from … arri archaic. precise meaning is lost in Sicilian antiquity. …… Ddiu n.m. God.

Din Father Sky in ancient Greek and Sanskrit – Zabaan Language Institute http://www.zabaan.com/blog/father-sky-in-ancient-greek-and-sanskrit/

  1. Genitive: Διος (Dios) in Greek and दिवः (divaḥ) in Sanskrit. The remaining cases are constructed on an alternative root div-. What is immediately evident is that the Greek form lacks the sound v. This is due to the fact that this sound was entirely lost in Greek after about 1000 BC. Where there is v in another language, there will always be a blank in Greek. Before this loss the Greek form must have been Divos.

Din The Ancient World | A Website for Learning and Discovery https://discoveringancienthistory.wordpress.com/                                        cultural exchange which occurred between Greeks and Thracians along the …… and the legend, “DIVOS IVLIVS” which translates as “Divine Julius.

Imaginea din A PLACE OF BRIGHTNESS Keyth Massey http://aplaceofbrightness.blogspot.com/2008/11/moonlight-in-romania-tartaria-tablets_21.html

H P    D b o c

HeRo Dibos (citeste divos)

DOMN Zeu (Dumnezeu)

….de fapt Dumnezeu= DomnuZeu

 

Din A STUDY OF THE ORIGINS, CONNECTIONS AND MEANINGS OF THE INDO-EUROPEAN WORDS REEKA, REE, REA (RIVER) IN LANGUAGE AND MYTHOLOGY

 

Odyssey Belchevsky,

67 Rainier Sq. Toronto, Canada M1T 3A1

http://www.korenine.si/zborniki/zbornik05/belchevsky_rea.htm

The form/name Zeus (Zevs) is phonetically and functionally connected to the massive root of everything associated with life, living, existence, propagating, etc. ………………..It is then not unreasonable topropose that God = life? Or, Supreme God Zeus = life on Earth, or simplyZeus = life? Table 2 examines the root-word associated with life in the Macedonian/Slavic language. (Please note the Macedonian character ? (in Latinic script ž) is pronounced in English as zh).

 

Table 2. Macedonian/Slavic words associated with life.

Macedonian read as English
?? zhi root word for life/living
??? zhiv (he is) alive
???? zhivi (he) lives
???? zhiti life
?????? zhiviti to live
?????a zhivota (your) life
????? zhitie life
???? zhivo (it is) alive
????? zhivos life, living
????? zhivio (a) living (man)
????? zhivets (a) living (thing)
????? zhivëë (to) live
?????[7] zhivil (to have) lived
?????? zhivëël have lived, to exist, existed

Since women are the divine and only entities that bear new life, then the above relationship reconfirms the meaning of life itself. Table 4 examines a group of Macedonian/Slavic words associated with this concept.

Table 4. Macedonian/Slavic words associated with the concept of divine and women.

Macedonian read as English
     
?????, ?????? DeevosDeeveena All nature, Wild, Wilderness
????? Divno Divine
????, ?????? Deva, Devitsa Young, Virgin
??????a, ??????? Devoyka, Devoyche Girl, Female
?????? Deevovee Gods of Nature

Divos, divina, means all living things ‘God created in the Natural world’ untouched by humans, in other words all that is divine. An unmarried virgin woman in Macedonian/Slavic is known as a deva, devitsa, devoyka. She is the divine creation that propagates human life.

Here ????? (zhivos) evolves into????? (divos) but still retains the meaning ‘all natural creation’. God is the only one responsible and capable of all natural creation. Thus God has given lifetoall living things.

The forms divo > diva > divi > dii are very similar and also provide an alternate meaning to the Latin words ‘dii > die > deus’. What is most interesting and significant is that ancient coins, which have been found in the Balkans with a form of the word “Divos” inscribed in them [8]:qibos [9] =  Dibos  = divos

qibos is similarly close to the Greek word qeios or qeos,  which today is widely used in a significant part of society.

It is important to note here that in other European languages, words associated with the word Theos > Deos > God have only shallow etymological and functional root relationships. Curtius [1] has hinted to the possibility that some present forms of the word Theos could have evolved from the root/concept relating to divos, but he did not provide complete and convincing arguments mainly because he did not consider the Slavic languages as platforms for his interpretation. He quotes the Italian etymologist Ascoli [10] who identified ‘Theos’ with the Sanskrit root div and divja-s ‘heavenly’ and from div-eo-sarrived at dveos and theos:

divos > dibos > qibos > qeios > qeos

The Macedonian/Slavic group of words is firmly supported by the Sanskrit words, e.g. Jiv = Zhiv = living = life. Also, according to the bible, Eve > Ive is the first woman/life creator and propagator on earth, zhive > ive > eve.

  1. Ref. [1], p. 131: “There are two coins, both preserved in Paris which are described by Monnet.” (Description de med antiques,vol.ii., p.280, Nos.179 and 185) with the legend ‘gortinion divos’. Voretzsch regards this as proof that this legend meant ‘God of the Gortynians’.” It is indicated here that the word Divos = God.                            P.S.                                                                                                                                        Recent am recitit lucrarea CUI BONO? THOUGHTS ABOUT A “RECONSIDERATION” OF THE TĂRTĂRIA TABLETS ATTILA LÁSZLÓ*  unde autorul /arhelog,Profesor Universitar in Iasi (prezent in sit in ziua descoperirii tablitelor) nu isi manifesta rezerve privind circumstantele descoperirii lor si nici privind autenticitatea lor)
XV.BIBLIOGRAFIE

Dumitrescu 1972 – V. Dumitrescu, Turdaş ‑ Mesopotamia, SCIV 23, 1972, 1, p. 93‑109.
Dumitrescu, Bolomey, Mogoşanu 1983 – V. Dumitrescu, A. Bolomey, F. Mogoşanu, Esquisse d’une préhistoire de la
Roumanie, Bucarest, 1983.
Falkenstein 1936 – A. Falkenstein, Archaische Texte aus Uruk. Ausgrabungen der Deutschen Forschungsgemeinschaft
in Uruk‑Warka, Bd. II, Leipzig, 1936.
Falkenstein 1965 – A. Falkenstein, Zu den Tontafeln aus Tărtăria, Germania 43, 1965, p. 269‑273.
Filip 1966; 1998 – J. Filip (ed.), Enzyklopädisches Handbuch zur Ur‑ und Frühgeschichte Europas, Prag, 1, 1966; 3, 1998.
Gelb 1967 – I.J. Gelb, Comment upon C. Renfrew’s note, Nestor 112, April 1967, p. 488.
Haarmann 2008a – H. Haarmann, A comparative view of the Danube Script and other Ancient Writing Systems, in
J. Marler (ed.), The Danube Script: Neo‑Eneolithic Writing in Southeastern Europe. Exhibition Catalogue,
National Brukenthal Museum, Sibiu ‑ Institute of Archaeomythology, Sebastopol (USA), 2008, p. 11‑22.
Haarmann 2008b – H. Haarmann, The Danube Script and its Legacy: Literacy as a cultural Identifier in the Balcanic
‑ Aegean Convergence Zone, in J. Marler (ed.), The Danube Script: Neo‑Eneolithic Writing in Southeastern
Europe. Exhibition Catalogue, National Brukenthal Museum, Sibiu ‑ Institute of Archaeomythology, Sebastopol
(USA), 2008, p. 61‑76.
Harhoiu 1992 – R. Harhoiu, Otto Kurt Horedt, Dacia N.S. 36, 1992, p. 5‑11.Harmatta 1966 – J. Harmatta, Neolitkori irásbeliség Közép‑Európában? [Neolithic writing in Central Europe?], Antik
Tanulmányok 13, 1966, 2, p. 235‑236.
Hood 1967 – M.S.F. Hood, The Tartaria Tablets, Antiquity 41, 1967, 162, p. 99‑114.
Höckmann 1968 – O. Höckmann, Die menschengestaltige Figurplastik der südosteuropäischen Jungsteinzeit und
Steinkupferzeit, I‑II, Hildesheim, 1968.
Kramer 1962 – S.N. Kramer, Istoria începe la Sumer, Bucureşti, 1962 [= History begins at Sumer, London‑New York
1959].
László 2009 – A. László, Some aspects of the Tărtăria issue, in J. Marler (ed.), Proceedings “Signs and symbols from
Danube Neolithic and Eneolithic”, International Symposium The Danube Script: Neo‑Eneolithic Writing in
Southeastern Europe, Bibliotheca Brukenthal 35, Sibiu, 2009, p. 57‑66.
László 2011 – A. László, Tartariáról, majd’ötven év után – On Tărtăria, fifty years later, in Sz. Horváth, M. Kiss,
M.H. Rauert (eds.), „…eleitől fogva”. Régész—tanár—ember. A 75 éves Makkay János köszöntése [Papers
presented to János Makkay on his 75th birthday], Pécs, 2011, p. 247‑264.
Lazarovici, Merlini 2005 – Gh. Lazarovici, M. Merlini, New archaeological data referring to Tărtăria tablets,
Documenta Praehistorica 32, 2005, p. 205‑219.
Lazarovici, Merlini 2008 – Gh. Lazarovici, M. Merlini, New informations and the role of the Tărtăria discoveries, in
J. Marler (ed.), The Danube Script: Neo‑Eneolithic Writing in Southeastern Europe. Exhibition Catalogue,
National Brukenthal Museum, Sibiu ‑ Institute of Archaeomythology, Sebastopol (USA), 2008, p. 39‑51.
Lazarovici, Lazarovici, Merlini 2011 – Gh. Lazarovici, C.‑M. Lazarovici, M. Merlini, Tărtăria and the sacred tablets,
Cluj‑Napoca, 2011.
Makkay 1967 – J. Makkay, Die in Tărtăria gefundenen piktographischen Tafeln und die Jüngere Steinzeit Südosteuropas,
MFMÉ 1966‑1967, p. 21‑24.
Makkay 1968 – J. Makkay, The Tărtăria tablets, Orientalia 37, 1968, 3, p. 272‑289.
Makkay 1969 – J. Makkay, The Late Neolithic Tordos group of signs, Alba Regia 10, 1969, p. 9‑49.
Makkay 1990 – J. Makkay, A tartariai leletek [The Tărtăria findings], Budapest, 1990.
Marler 2008 – J. Marler (ed.), The Danube Script: Neo‑Eneolithic Writing in Southeastern Europe. Exhibition
Catalogue, National Brukenthal Museum, Sibiu ‑ Institute of Archaeomythology, Sebastopol (USA), 2008.
Marler 2009 – J. Marler (ed.), Proceedings “Signs and symbols from Danube Neolithic and Eneolithic”, International
Symposium The Danube Script: Neo‑Eneolithic Writing in Southeastern Europe, Bibliotheca Brukenthal 35,
Sibiu, 2009.
Marler 2014 – J. Marler (ed.), Fifty Years of Tărtăria Excavations. Papers presented at the International Symposium
“50 Years of Tărtăria Excavations”, Coronini‑Pescari, Romania, 1‑5 September 2011, Institute of Archaeomythology,
Sebastopol (USA), Suceava, 2014.
Merlini 2009 – M. Merlini, An Inquiry into the Danubian Script, Bibliotheca Brukenthal 33, Sibiu, 2009.
Masson 1984 – E. Masson, L’ ‘écriture’ dans les civilisations danubiennes néolithique, Kadmos 32, 1984, 2, p. 89‑123.                                                                                                Milojčić 1965 – V. Milojčić, Die Tontafeln von Tărtăria und die absolute Chronologie des mitteleuropäischen
Neolithikums, Germania 43, 1965, p. 261‑268.
Neustupný 1968 – E. Neustupný, The Tărtăria tablets: a chronological issue, Antiquity 42, 1968, 165, p. 32‑35.
Qasim 2013 – E. Qasim, Die Tărtăria‑Täfelchen – eine Neubewertung, Das Altertum 58, 2013, p. 307‑318.
Quitta 1960 – H. Quitta, Zur Frage der ältesten Bandkeramik in Mitteleuropa, PZ 38, 1960, p. 1‑38, 153‑188.
Quitta 1967 – H. Quitta, Radiocarbondaten und die Chronologie des mittel‑ und südosteuropäischen Neolithikums,
Ausgrabungen und Funde 12, 1967, 3, p. 115‑125.
Reinecke 1899 – P. Reinecke, Tordos és Trója [Tordos and Troy], ArchÉrt 33, 1899, p. 115‑123.
Renfrew 1973 – C. Renfrew, Before Civilisation. The radiocarbon revolution and prehistoric Europe, London‑New
York, 1973.
Roska 1941 – M. Roska, A Torma Zsófia‑gyüjtemény az Erdélyi Nemzeti Múzeum Érem‑ és Régiségtárában – Die
Sammlung Zsófia von Torma in der Numismatisch‑Archaeologischen Abteilung des Siebenbürgischen
Nationalmuseums, Kolozsvár [Cluj], 1941.
Schmidt 1903 – H. Schmidt, Tordos, ZfE 35, 1903, 438‑469.
Seipel 2003 – W. Seipel (ed.), Der Turmbau zu Babel. Ursprung und Vielfalt von Sprache und Schrift (see especially
Band IIIA: Schrift), Graz, 2003.
Sinn 2002 – U. Sinn (ed.), Schrift, Sprache, Bild und Klang. Entwicklungsstufen der Schrift von der Antike bis in die

Reprezentarea unui lingou de tip keftiu pe o placă de centură din …
https://www.cclbsebes.ro/docs/Sebus_6_2014/08_CIPopa.pdf

O noua si interesanta perspectiva asupra celor mai vechi scrieri din aria Danubiana si Egeeana.

August 28, 2018

O cu totul noua si interesanta perspectiva asupra celor mai vechi scrieri din aria Danubiana si Egeeana.

Am obtinut foarte recent, (Aug.2018) o noua si proaspata perspectiva in urma studierii a doua lucrari :
Autori, Iannis Kenanidis si E. PapakitsosThe Eteocretan Inscription from Psichro (Crete) is genuine https://www.researchgate.net/publication/312038989_The_Eteocretan_Inscription_from_Psychro_Crete_is_Genuine pe de o parte, si a unei alte lucrari,
– autor A.A.Vaiman “On the quasi-sumerian tablets from Tartaria” http://www.archeo.ru/izdaniya-1/archaeological-news/annotations-of-issues/arheologicheskie-vesti.-spb-1994.-vyp.-3.-annotacii#section-22

Ca elemente de noutate,
– in prima lucrare se incearca cumva “taierea nodului gordian” adica din multe ipoteze privind limba necunoscuta folosita in inscriptiile eteocretane, autorii avansaza ipoteza unui amestec initial de populatii (deci si de limbi), in care un rol primordial l-a avut ( si din a carei limba s-au pastrat caracteristicile), o populatie care a colonizat initial Creta si care era de factura sumeriana.
“Thus, to all those readers interested in the Eteocretan languages of ancient Crete, a novel approach of decipherment is presented herein, for the first time based on the Cretan Protolinear script theory [12] that suggests the affinity of the Psychro inscription to the Sumerian dialect of Crete. It will be demonstrated that the application of the Sumerian language for this decipherment provides a coherent and meaningful interpretation of the text on this inscription.”
Din cate am inteles eu, desi limba nu a mai pastrat integral toate carcteristicile limbii sumeriene, in schimb scrisul a functionat ca un gen de constanta, in sensul ca semnificatia ideogramelor a fost retinuta, cunoscuta si pastrata de migrantii sumerieni= minoani, pe tot parcursul timpului (chiar pana inspre era noastra).
As explained in previous works, the Cretan Protolinear script was created by the Minoans, who were Sumerian settlers [12,20,21,22]; the Cretan Protolinear script in the form of Linear A and Linear B was used by all the different nations that inhabited Crete and the Aegean. However, in the hands of non-Minoans (i.e. Hands of nonSumerians) the Cretan Protolinear script was distorted as time passed, and eventually forgotten, because the script was difficult for nonMinoans (=non-Sumerians). On the other hand, in the hands of Minoan Sumerians the Cretan Protolinear script could not be significantly distorted or forgotten, no matter how many generations would pass. This is because the Cretan Protolinear script (henceforth in this work referred to simply as “Protolinear”) was phonetic and pictographic at the same time: every phonetic (syllabic) sign was a sketch of a readily recognizable object in the Minoan Sumerian culture. So, for those who had Minoan Sumerian as their first language, every syllabic sign had the native name of the thing that the sign depicted, and they always knew what the signs depicted. They could not alter the shape of the signs lest they would be no more recognizable and if a sign was not recognizable it could not have a native (Minoan Sumerian) name, so it could not have a phonetic value. This is why the Protolinear script could not be altered in Minoan hands; while for non-Minoans there was no connection between depicted object and phonetic use of the Protolinear signs.Therefore, the Protolinear script survived unaltered as long as the Minoan nation existed. And we know that the Minoan Sumerian language, as other non-Greek languages spoken in Crete, was spoken not only until 300 BC but also much later [21], because those populations were relatively isolated geographically and socially. “
In legatura cu aceasta lucrare , eu am constatat (si nu am reusit pe moment si rapid sa-mi explic) de ce :
– tablitele pastreaza cumva in opinia mea un caracter dual, respectiv contin semne, si pot fi citite folosind atat scrierea sumeriana cat si separat folosind-o pe cea micaeniana (Linear A).            In plus,
– cea rotunda prezinta  semne f. apropiate de scrierea arhaica greceasca, mai precis de cea arhaica Cretana.
RELATIV LA CEA DE A 2-a LUCRARE,

– am fost intrigat si m-am necajit cumva ca lucrarea lui Aisik AbramovichVaiman are un parcurs sanatos si plin de chestiuni valoroase, constituind un gen de “concurent” al meu care cumva precede cercetarile mele cu cativa ani ( 1994 a dansului visa ultima editie 2018 ale mele).
-asta pe de o parte; in schimb lucrarea dansului are lacune, (doar cca. jumatate din semne sant interpretate!)
Atentie: in prima coloana este numarul semnului !
Semnele Nr.1? Nr.2 si 9 gresite, Nr.4? Nr.10? Nr.12,13? Nr.14? Nr.17?….pana acum cca. 8-9 semne….
Dar si la semnele gasite trebuia explicate la toate semnificatia, intelesul lor.
(exemple de intelesuri cautate si gasite :
semnul 2 nu este mas/sal ci :”Asz/As”:”grau, orz”:”
semnul 4: neidentificat,neinterpretat: este AN:”zeu,cer,zeul AN,ANU” dar si “spic de cereale”
semnele 8 si 10, semn identif.corect,”ab“: “casa,templu,altar
Se ,semn identif.corect: semnifica”ratie,grau,cereale
Sa, semn identif.corect dar neinterpretat de dansul ( Sza,Sa:”a usca“)
amar,da, semn identif.corect, dar neinterpretat: inseamna “vitel,taur, zeul-taur solar“..la fel ca si semnul 14
ba identificat ca semn: dar inseamna”a imparti,portie,a da,distribui
semnul D, Nr.15,16 partial identificat, pentru dansul este numai “ges”= “60”,dar: este si “dis” cifra”1″ dar si “ninda””portie,portie de cereale,paiine
o, neidentificat,neinterpretat: inseamna cifra”10
semnul 9: este gresit,nu este plug (apin) ci semnul Ku “baza,a fonda,construi
semnul din quadrantul dreapta jos (cel din dreapta) corect emblema orasului LARSA dar si “templul soarelui

semnul >> neidentificat,neinterpretat; este RU:”dar”; “a da,trimite”



pe cand a mea este mai completa ( ex. explic clar si in amanunt, clar absolut toate semnele).
( In aceeasi situatie (lucrare incompleta tot numai cu cca. jumatate din semne interpretate) este lucrarea cercetatorului bulgar Rumen Kolev.)
A.A.Vaiman:“Altogether, sixteen of the eighteen Tartaria signs have been identified with the proto-Sumerian ones. Perhaps in the future it will be possible to find proto-Sumerian prototypes for the two remaining signs as well.”
In fond rezultatul conteaza chiar daca este o contributie “colectiva”.
In fond posibil Michael Ventris nu obtinea rezultatele de varf daca nu coresponda cu Arthur Evans).
Ce este interesant este faptul ca avem o parere comuna ca cel care a scris tabletele nu a fost un locuitor nativ al Transilvaniei.
  Eu in plus afirm ca tablitele nu au fost scrise de mana unui sumerian.
Autorul avanseaza ipoteza unei origini si a unui autor de pe teritoriul Irakului (Sumer).
“Because the Tartaria signs derive from early proto-Sumerian ones present on tabiets from Uruk layer IV, the Tartaria script apparently emerged in the last quarter of the 4th Millennium ВС. Nothing definite can be said as to where it was invented, butthis hardly happened in Transylvania. More likely, its homeland was an area closer to Iraq. Functionally, the tablets were obviously economical documents.”
Eu nu exclud nici-o ipoteza, dar dau mai multe sanse unei origini Cicladice-Egeene.

“On the quasy-sumerian tablets from Tartaria”,author A.A.Vaiman,with my comments.

August 26, 2018

 

Careful/ Attention !                                                                                                                                               This post is not a successful decipherment or reading of any actual written content of Tartaria tablets. Given that the signs do not belong to a single writing system but to several, the page has a purely didactic character. It has the role of trying and testing different writings, in the idea that the tablets would have used one of them. The signs on the tablets belong to several writing systems over a long period of time and which have been used in different geographical areas. In none of the trials did the signs fall into a single type of writing, there always remained signs that came from other writings (or as coming from the unknown). Most of the signs come from the Sumerian proto-cuneiform  ones. The signs in the upper half of the round tablet seem to come from archaic Greek writing. This “collection” of signs seems to be the fruit of one’s rich imagination. As A. Falkenstein and A. A. Vaiman found, (this is also my firm opinion) the author was not a scribe, he had only scarce knowledge of writing in general, and it is not known what he intended  or he was after. There are many elements of inconsistency as well as others that take the tablets out of the logics, usual patterns and norms of writing or honest intentions.

First of all, one of the most autoritative persons in archaeology, MASSON in his turn is considering Mr. A.A.Vaiman at the highest level in the field of proto-cuneiform writing:

В.М. Массон. Взаимодействие культур и культурная интеграция

V. M. Masson. Interaction of cultures and cultural integration http://www.archeo.ru/izdaniya-1/archaeological-news/annotations-of-issues/arheologicheskie-vesti.-spb-1994.-vyp.-3.-annotacii

“An appreciable shift occurred in the early agricultural period, when societies which had attained similar levels of cultural and intellectual development displayed considerable receptivity to integrational processes. Yet here as well the “rejection” is evident. If the decoding of the famous tablets from the early agricultural site of Tartaria, Romania, proposed by A. A. Weiman, one of the world’s most authoritative experts in Proto-Sumerian texts (see this issue), is correct, a highly peculiar picture emerges. In the depth of the early agricultural Balkan area with its remarkable achievements in the artistic and intellectual domains a stable complex is found which is related to the temple structures of the Sumerian civilization. No matter whether the kulturtrager from Uruk had actually built their temple somewhere in the vicinity or whether we have before us a unique case of import having no pragmatic value, it is absolutely clear that these hallmarks of urban civilization had in no way been integrated into the system of early agricultural communities, which, in my opinion, had achieved the initial stage of the early complex society. Numerous and diverse signs found on the artefacts from the early agricultural Balkan sites are doubtless related to some symbolic and magic system, but do not represent a system of writing, which is a phenomenon different, in quality. So the Proto-Sumerian prototype did not in any way affect the local society, which was probably content with the available systems of storage and transmission of information (probably the oral and the artistic ones).”

I DO NOT UNDERSTAND, how it is possible that one of the most autoritative expert wich I expected to be a master over  Proto-Sumerian texts (A.A.Vaiman) is hesitating and not identify correct some signs (an preffer not to make comments on interpreting other some of them)                                                                                                                                     E.g.:                                                                                                                                                      “The abundance of numerals on the tablets indicates that the latter were economical documents. The meaning of the numerals and of some other signs may be quite safely established by the meaning of their Sumerian prototypes. A certain degree of caution, however, is required since the borrowed signs could have some shades of meanings or even new meanings which were not inherent in their prototypes.”                                             Note                                                                                                                                                           I will be more cautious. E.g.,the sign “D” would be number 1 or number 60 (when depicted big is 60) so could mean 1, or Dis/Dil wich is the word for “one” and could mean “one(god)” also is close in shape with the sign GAR wich mean “grain-portion/bread

My blogspot.com coments are here:

https://tartariawriting.blogspot.com/b/post-preview?token=3a2Hd2UBAAA.hOPzmhHP_1LrLB3kizpPjf2ZKPknKdVv2X9k9ciN164vOnkmaE618qclBK6ZKenyGyo5u7nMao7eW7Jd_YLYlw.4mGocgBvKUh59aDFnryqew&postId=7956659482178171483&type=PAGE

А.А. Вайман. О квазишумерских табличках Тэртэрии

  1. A. Vaiman.On the Quasi-Sumerian tablets from Tartaria
     
     

    In russian language:                                                                                  http://www.archeo.ru/izdaniya-1/archaeological-news/arheologicheskie-vesti/AV_03.pdf/view

In 1963 N.VIassa published a paper with a description of three baked clay tablets which were found during his excavations in Tàrtâria, Transylvania, Roumania (figs.1-3). On one of them (fig.l) https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT645MJ7vWg1XAIxdCQWXcqkA6u9XKPlWFGlvxmYWd2Nq0ik_6vVg

Image result for tartaria tablets fig.1

a tree is depicted with two animals standing on its sides. The researcher compared this representation with the impression of a Sumerian seal. Two other tablets (figs.2,3) carry signs, many of which, according to Vlassa, are either identical with, or very similar to, those inscribed on the tablets from Uruk IV (early Proto-Sumerian script).

Image result for tartaria tablets fig.2

Image result for tartaria tablets fig.3

The sensational find has gained a wide publicity. The most significant paper that has appeared so far is that by А.Falkenstein who has basically supported Vlassa’s conclusions. Falkenstein has compared the Tàrtâria tablets with those from layer III in Uruk and Jemdet-nasr (late proto-Sumerian script) using a number of criteria, such as clay, format, stylus, structure of the text, signs. He has proved beyond doubt that the script of the Tàrtâria tablets had been directly influenced by the proto-Sumerian script. At the same time, the tablets have not been studied in sufficient detail yet.

The present article is yet another attempt at studying the Tartaria tablets. It offers more accurate tracings of certain signs; also, a new attempt is made to identify the Tartaria signs with both early and late versions of the proto-Sumerian ones (see our list on fig.4); some characteristics of the Tartaria script are discussed, providing a possibility to assess the degree of their independence with respect to the proto-Sumerian script; a tentative interpretation is suggested for both the separate records and the texts in general.

 A.A.Vaiman’s table, from http://www.archeo.ru/izdaniya-1/archaeological-news/arheologicheskie-vesti/AV_03.pdf

Dlr0EirU0AEfo7c

First and foremost, according to published photographs, the copies of the tablets need to be corrected. The most important corrections are as follows. Tablet 2: 11, sign No.9 (fig.4): the cuneiform oblique dash (fig.2) is not shown. Tablet 2: V, sign No. 10 (fig.4): the middle horizontal incision (fig.3) is not shown; III and IV: the dividing incisions (fig.3) are not shown. It appears that the published copies have been made from the photographs rather than from the tablets themselves.

We have already mentioned that three of the Tartaria signs (Nos.9, 10, and 16) have been incorrectly identified by Falkenstein.

In sign No.9, the oblique dash has not been taken into account, and its presence makes it impossible to identify this sign with the proto-Sumerian sign No.260 (Falkenstein, 1936). Rather, it should be identified with the proto-Sumerian sign No.214 (Falkenstein, 1936).

Sign No. 10 has been identified with the proto-Sumerian sign No.810 (or 543, see Falkenstein, 1936); however, the latter has two vertical lines inside, which are absent in the Tartaria sign. The identification given in our list is self-evident.

Sign No. 16, for no apparent reason, has been identified with the proto-Sumerian sign No.753 (Falkenstein, 1936), although, judging by the context, it should doubtless be identified with the proto-Sumerian number No.905 (Falkenstein, 1936).

As to sign No.l, in the published copy of tablet 2 (fig.2) it looks like two angles (see I 2, fig.4). The horizontal line is admittedly vague; yet its traces are evident in the photograph, which indicates that this sign should be identified with the similar sign of tablet 3, I 1 (fig.4).

Altogether, sixteen of the eighteen Tartaria signs have been identified with the proto-Sumerian ones. Perhaps in the future it will be possible to find proto-Sumerian prototypes for the two remaining signs as well.

Because signs Nos.2, 4, 6, and 10 of the Tartaria tablets (fig.4) have only early proto-Sumerian parallels, it may be assumed that other Tartaria signs, too, were borrowed from the early, rather than from the late, proto-Sumerian script.

It has already been mentioned that not just the signs (possibly all of them) were borrowed, but other things as well, including the material for writing, the rectangular or round shape of the tablets (the latter occurs, although rarely, in layer IV of Uruk), the manner in which the text is divided into parts by means of vertical and horizontal incisions, and the technique of writing. However, the borrowed elements are transformed in such a way that one should speak of an independent Tartarian script rather than of a Tartarian version of the proto-Sumerian script. First and foremost, people who created this script, in contrast to the Sumerians, used only knife-shaped styluses.

The Tartarian script differs from the proto-Sumerian one also in the construction of the texts. Each of the two texts is divided into columns by a vertical incision, and each column is divided into lines by horizontal incisions (table 3, V, provides an exception, see fig.3). In each collumn, the first line from the top contains a number and what is probably the name of the thing counted, while the second line is composed of one to three signs which are not numbers (see tablet 3, I, fig.3, for an exception) and which explicate the numeric record of the top line. As it has been stated above, such a construction is not possible for the proto-Sumerian texts, in which just one line would suffice. Horizontal incisions on Tartaria tablets are situated directly under the signs of the top lines, which is never the case on the proto-Sumerian tablets.

Signs on the Tartaria tablets are arranged so that they fill up all the available space, creating an impression of a completed text. It is especially evident on table 3 (fig.3), where the signs of the top lines are situated quite close to the upper margin, while the signs of the bottom lines come close to the lower margin; as a result, free space is left above the signs in columns II, III, and IV. Such an arrangement of signs is not observed in proto-Sumerian texts.

Certain important differences between the Tartarian script and the proto-Sumerian one are related to the orientation of various elements. Nearly a half of Tartarian signs (Nos.l, 2, 3, 7, 9, 15, 16, 18) are rotated 90 degrees anticlockwise relative to their Sumerian prototypes (fig.4). Admittedly, such rotation occurs also in the early proto-Sumerian script, but these cases are exceptional.

While in proto-Sumerian texts the higher-order digits are placed above the lower-order ones, making up a column, in tablet 2, II 1, of Tartaria (fig.2) higher-order digits are situated to the left of the lower-order ones, making up a line. It would be natural to suppose that such a line was read from the left to the right. It is quite likely that all signs written in a line on the Tartaria tablets were read in a left-to-right fashion (see tablet 2: I 1,2; И 1,2, see fig.2); but being arranged vertically, they were read from top to bottom (tablet 2: I 2, II 1,2, see fig.2; tablet 3: V, sec fig.3). The columns were probably read in the same way as the digits in a line, from left to right. It should be reiterated that in proto-Sumerian texts signs within lines, except digits, are scattered in an apparently random order, while the adjacent columns are read from the right to the left.

Finally, in contrast to what is seen in proto-Sumerian texts, numerical designations in Tartaria tablets do not always precede the non-numerical ones. Thus, in line I i of tablet 2 (fig.2) the numerical symbol is placed to the right of the non-numerical sign, while in line II 1 of the same tablet it is situated below, so in both instances the non-numerical sign precedes the numerical one. Taking into consideration the proto-Sumerian parallels, non-numerical signs in these lines may be interpreted as designations of the things that were counted. All the above brings us to the conclusion that in the language of the Tartarian tablets the names of the things counted apparently precede the respective numerals, or, more generally, the names of the defined things precede the definitions.

The abundance of numerals on the tablets indicates that the latter were economical documents. The meaning of the numerals and of some other signs may be quite safely established by the meaning of their Sumerian prototypes. A certain degree of caution, however, is required since the borrowed signs could have some shades of meanings or even new meanings which were not inherent in their prototypes.

Tablet 2 (fig.2). I 1. Sign No.9 (fig.4) may denote an agricultural worker.                     A.A.Vaiman’s table from http://www.archeo.ru/izdaniya-1/archaeological-news/arheologicheskie-vesti/AV_03.pdf

Dlr0EirU0AEfo7cSign No. 15 (fig.4) is a numeral (originally sixty; however, after having been borrowed. it could acquire the meaning of the respective key numeral in the decimal system, one hundred).

I 2. The two upper signs, Nos.3 and 1 (fig.4) may mean (left to right) “given” (“distributed”) and “barley”, respectively, and sign No.7 (fig.4) below it, “supervisor”.

II 1. The upper sign, No.2 (fig.4) means “goat” or “sheep” (one specimen). Below it, there is a row of numerals: 600, 60, 10, 10, the total amount being 680 (or 1000, 100, 10, 10, totalling 1120). All together may signify 680 (or 1120) head of goats (or sheep).

II 2. The central sign in the line is No.5 (the meaning of the respective proto-Sumerian sign is not known), and to the right of it, two signs, No.ll, “sun”, “daytime”, “white”, and No.8, “sanctuary”. The combination of the two latter signs may be read as LARSA, the name of the Sumerian town.

So the inscription on tablet 2 may be tentatively read as follows: 11,2 Sixty (or one hundred) agricultural workers, BA.SE, supervisor.

II 1, 2 Six hundred and eighty (or 1120) head of goats (or sheep).

SA (name?), LARSA (?)

Tablet 3 (fig.3). On this tablet, numerals are present only in the middle three columns, II, III, and IV. I 1. Sign No.l (fig.4): “barley” (or, more generally, “grain”). I 2. Sign No. 13 (fig.4) cannot be identified with any proto-Sumerian prototype. II 1. Sign No.18 (fig.4), “one”, repeated five times and thus meaning “five”. II 2. Sign No.10 (fig.4). This sign is identified with an early proto-Sumerian sign, which, however, has not been identified with any sign in the later script. It appears likely that columns I and II should be viewed together: I 1, “grain”, I 2, a cubic measure; II 1, “five”; II 2, a name or a position of a person.

III 1, 2, and IV, 1, 2. The two top lines in both columns contain the same sign, No.12 (fig.4). Apparently, in early proto-Sumerian texts the respective sign already denoted a cubic measure, SILA, probably that of oil. In the Tartaria tablet, this sign, judging by the context, also stands for a cubic measure of some product. The bottom lines of the columns contain signs Nos.4 (its meaning is unknown) and 6, “calf”. Like the sign in the bottom line II, these signs probably signify a person’s name or position.

  1. The column is not divided into lines, and does not contain numerals. There are two (or three?) signs,Nos. 14 and 10(fig.4), the latter one being the same as that which occurs in line II 2. These signs evidently summarize the contents of all the preceding columns. Thus labtet 3 admits of the following interpretation:

I 1, 2 Of grain… (an unknown measure). II 1, 2 Five (to such-and such). HI 1, 2 One SILA (cubic measure),… (to such-and-such). IV 1, 2 One SILA (cubic measure),… (to such-and-such). V … No other clay tablets with inscriptions have so far been discovered in Tartaria, and the distribution area of this script is not known. The specimens described were found not in archives, but in a pit, which the excavator believed to be ritual. Before having been placed in the pit, the tablets probably served as amulets. This would explain the presence of holes in two of the specimens (figs.2 and 3). Apparently, strings were passed through these holes to suspend the tablets.

So the tablets described attest to the existence in Tartaria of an original script based on prolo-Sumerian prototypes. The belief that this script was invented prior to the proto-Sumerian one and influenced it, is totally unfounded.

Because the Tartaria signs derive from early proto-Sumerian ones present on tabiets from Uruk layer IV, the Tartaria script apparently emerged in the last quarter of the 4th Millennium ВС. Nothing definite can be said as to where it was invented, but this hardly happened in Transylvania. More likely, its homeland was an area closer to Iraq. Functionally, the tablets were obviously economical documents.

MY COMENTS: 

  1. Related to pure pictographic tablet,

“On one of them (fig.l) a tree is depicted with two animals standing on its sides.”

Corrected:”vegetal motif,possible ear grain or tree”                                                           Corrected: two goats                                                                                                                       Not slightest mention of the “ghost-like” silhuette

! Autor not mention a possible relation of this tablet with the other twoo !!

  1. Related to the other twoo tablets,Dlr0EirU0AEfo7c

First, based on suposition that there are written there numbers and from this that it is about an economical/accounting tablet, partly could be correct, but the author not extract the ultimate possible meanings from the signs inscribed, nor realised that on the tablets there are long deep in time of paramount importance religion-related icons.

So I sugest, or even stressing that the tablets possible are not limited to an strictly economical aspect, but could be related to an religious (offering) ritual !

So, the reading and interpretation of the tablets are quite rude “on the surface” if one don’t mind.

I don’t know how to find,post and ad my comments on the fig.4 figure (table), so with my great excuses and apologise,

I underlined with red the statements and findings with wich I not agree or consider inacurate or even wrong.

With orange those wich I am not sure if correct , or posibility to be corect or not.

With blue, agreement

I aded the last column with my adnotations (rom.”NU” is NO!)

40259624_662678484130956_3567941027706699776_n

—————–  REVIEW OF fig. 4/ (table) VAIMAN’S SIGNS INTERPRETATION  ——————— NOTE                                                                                                                                                       WHEN ONE SIGN IS CORRECT IDENTIFIED (+) BUT NOT INTERPRETED (-), I WILL CONSIDER THAT THE READING IS NOT DONE,(no gain,no advance); CAUSE                        A READING IS SUPPOSING TO GRASP THE MESSAGE FROM SIGNS TO MEANING.

SIGN No/tablet No,          his interpretation             my interpretation                        yes/no

1/2,3                            >->->        Se                                Se,barley,grain                            YES                              

2/2                                     maS(sal)                            ASZ(As) barley,grain                    NO

3/2       Ba; sign found.not interpreted     share,portion, wages,give,distribute        +/      

4/3      not corectly found (sign name!?)& not interpreted    “sky-god.Sun-God”      NO                

5/2                                     Sa (not interpreted)        SZA,Sa “dry up“;?cord,string?       +/

6/3                       amar  not interpreted                      “calf,bull God,Sun-God”               +/  

7/2                                 pa supervisor                         pa2/nigin “gift given                     YES           

8/2                                         ab not interpreted                            “temple,shrine”             +/ –         

9/2                                         apin                        Ku base,found,build/pure,noble/eat   NO !     

10/3                      not interpreted                            Ab    temple,shrine  yes             say YES       

11/2                            ud ; yes, not interpreted                   sun/samas                                  +/

12/3                     sila not correct identified              sum.sign bad,pap (signif.””bad”)   NO      

14/3                   not identified                                      Bull ?Hi/lagab-bar-bar?                   NO

15                              geS                                        could be dis/dil “1” or ges:”60”                YES 

16                        “D”     gesxu                                 same sign ?60×2=120 or 2×1=2 ?      (.. YES )

17/2                                 not identified                                       sum. u :”10″ 2x10=20              NO

18/3                                sign                                                      one (1)                                    YES  

——————————————————————————————-

sign “>>”                  not identified                                      RU:”gift,present,give,send”         NO

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

TOTAL “BLUE” (correct)             ~ 6

TOTAL “RED” (WRONG)             ~ 7

!! The autor no take in account long-time of paramount importance of sumerian and minoan icons related to their religion and rituals. (AN, Bull(sun-God,Labrys,etc.)  !!

SCHOLAR’S PROGRESS IN DECIPHERING ANCIENT WRITINGS

June 29, 2018

Note.                                                                                                                                                    The first 5 positions regarding other (than Tartaria) writings are quick reviews. Rather of no practical use. Figures are estimates, only for general reference.

NO SIGNIFICANT PROGRESS IN DECIPHERING INDUS/HARAPPA WRITING                   I understand why it is hard; there are so many signs and the writing is not highly organised, and remained at best at the stage of proto-writing.

SUPPOSED VINCA WRITING (5.700-4.200 B.C.)                                                                        No way of proper writing, no prooved proto-writing. The sign library is great, but writing stalled or stopped at a level situated  before proto-writing or rather near-close to proto-writing.

CUCUTENI-TRYPILLIA (somehow later than Vinca (highest developement at 4.800-3.000B.C.)            No prooven proto-writing, writing excluded.

PROTO-ELAMITE                                                                                                                                Progress in reasearch are made, due to similarity to sumerian (&proto iranian) but not entire solved (language?!) 3.400-2.500 B.C.

CRETAN HIEROGLIPHYC (2100–1700 B.C.) ,LINEAR A   (1800–1450 B.C.)                                                                                     Most of the signs known. But the rest no; for  some of them not unanimously agreeding of phonetical rendering. Some languages in focuss. Not sure about language. SIGNIFICANT PROGRESSING.

ETEOCRETAN   ( late 7th  to the 3rd century B.C.)                                                                                                                            Archaic greek alphabet/letters, but not sure what language (semitic proposed?).

TARTARIA TABLETS   (late Vinca? 4.800-4.200 B.C.)                                         

Settling discovery circumstances, dating and utilization of the Tărtăria …   https://www.researchgate.net/…/29726577_Settling_discovery_circumstances_dating_an&#8230;
PDF |they settled the tablets from about 2900-2700 BC (Vlassa 1976: 33) to 2500BC (Hood:1967:110) 
                                                                     Hand-made by me, round Tartaria tablet replica / sinthetic clay:

36320642_1671848542936382_8881202476397625344_n                                                                                                                         Worst possible situation. From 1961 (discovery date) no consistent reasearch results. Maybe one notable contribution of Rumen Kolev (he is right in some 40%)                  World scholars seems to stay in a state of expectation and in real disarray. No eager to expose themselves as to utter definite statements.The range of hypothesis upon people,signs and language involved is so wide that one get in a maze; one don’t know what to take in account or consider more or less important.Understandable some-how, because:                                                                                                                                                   – It is not known  for sure real age > ? to what culture exactly pertain?                                     tablets are kind of singletons, unique, no others in the area to compare with                        -not known the writing system; worse: every tablet is presenting an different type of writing .Those types of writings are usual distanced by 500-1000 yars. Eg.Pictographic used (4000-2200B.C.); proto-cuneiform /syllabary(3300-1500B.C.); syllabary/alphabetic (1500 B.C. onward)                                                                                                                                      -din’t know the timing (aprox. to what  period of time pertain) so not even guess what language family and less of the concrete language those peple spoke. (see the supposed 10 languages hypothesised for linear A!)

If for Cretan hieroglyphic and Linear A one have to search in a kind of mist, you must realise that for tablets supposed older than this(Tartaria) the searching is much harder.

Luckily enough, out of 2 -3 writing systems wich were used on Tartaria tablets, the logical thinking is to consider  the age of  entire set of the tablets (3pcs) as having the age of the latest wryting system,newer/latest-one used.                                                            Also luckily as the writing is less evolved the meaning is general and could be deduced not necessary knowing the language ! Some of the religion-economical life icons were close related  in ancient past (if not some of them beeing the same on a large area in the far past Eg. corn, goat, bull,).

Out of this reasoning the preliminary conclusion is that upon that                                    T H E  T A B L E T S  A R E   N O T   S O   O L D ;                                                                          Forget 5.500 B.C. ! could not be take seriously in account; not even as joke only as a prank.                                                                                                                                                       ————————————————————————-————————————————————— EXPECTED READING, No. of POSSIBILITIES

We have 3 tablets: pictographic(*1); squarred with hole(*2); round-one (*3) We suppose that entire set was written in a definite time when used 1(one) definite language (“x”)            Note                                                                                                                                                       I could read:                                                                                                                                        *2 using Sumerian Proto-cuneiform library of signs and separate using Cretan hieroglyphic and linear A/B syllabogram                                                                                      *3 using Cretan hieroglyphic and Linear A/B; also separate reading using archaic greek alphabet                                                                                                                             Note. Even the Anatolian writings got highest score relative to the signs used I not try to read cause those languages (and writing) are far out of my expertise.

In best (simple,easy) situation *2 and *3 are using syllabary and *1 is using pictograms as kind of help/Rebus principle-like.                                                                            —————————-      you could pass-over this don’t want to get you tired !    ——————–

Tablet  Language           Type of writing   Aprox. number of possible readings                        ——————————————————————————————————————————–      *1               x                        P(pictographic)                         P1-3

*2               x                       PC(Proto-cuneiform)?              B1-3                                                                             x                           S1(Syllabary*1) ?                   b1?

*3               x                        S2 (syllabary*2″)?                      C1?                                                                             x                         A(alphabet)        ?                     A~ 5-10

In best situation *2 and *3 are using syllabary and *1 is using pictogram as kind of help/Rebus principle-like.                                                                                                                    ———————————————————————————————————————————-        Note:                                                                                                                                                             The artefacts found near the tablets are evidencing relation to Cyclades. No matter if cultural exchange was  from north to south or reverse the result is the same.                       ———————————————————————————————————————————          In this case the meaning of the entire set will be :

a mixture: [b1 ;C1]      ?+ help of P?    Messages of the set:1  or with much more variants:           -“-         [B1-3 ; C1]                   -“-                         ~3                                                                               -“-        [B1-3 ; A5-10]              -“-        combinations of 3 by 10                                                         -“-        [b1 ; A5-10 ]                 -“-                        min  1o

—————————————————   you passed-over  !  ——————————————————Now everyone could realise  an weird abnormal situation when somebody is using 2 types of writing (PC+S; PC+A; S+A)                                                                                                   Note:  ! I not counted that pictographic wich could be for help!?

!? W H Y ? ?                                                                                                                                         …………………………………Only if was kind of preast=teacher !                            Or possible only the round-one is carring a precise message,                                                      and the rest of the signs on the other tablets are sacred, religion-associated icons (possible  with forgotten meanings),                                                                                          used in most of  religious rituals from far back in time (before the moment these tablets were written ).                                                          ============================================================================Where from those numbers of variants/series ?                                                                               Eg.    Round-tablet, upside-left quadrant ; using archaic greek alphabet                           signs HP,D/D (Eta/heta-  Rho/D.Delta)                                                                                Possible readings:                                                                                                              monograms for deities: 1HeRos, 2HeRa, 3HeRos, 4HeRakles,                                      (gr.1″Lord”, 2″Lady”…….)                                                                                                              5HieRa, 6HaR, 7cHaR, 8HoRos,                                                                                                   (5″sacred objects”; 6″fitted in beautiful manner”:….)                                                                  9ED10EDe, 11EDo, 12HeDe, 13HeDus, 14*HeD,                                                                      9.alb.”kid-goat”…..10.lat.”eat!”/kid-goat!”11.gr.”I eat”

                                                                                   

 

Tartaria tablets.What script and language is expected !?

June 27, 2018

Prehistoric writing systems                                                                                                        From https://www.biblicaltraining.org/library/writing
“must be projected from the later known to the earlier unknown. The oldest known written documents were excavated at the site of ancient Uruk (Biblical Erech, Gen 10:10), and were inscribed about 3000 b.c. These are Sumer. tablets inscribed with economic texts in the non-Semitic, non-Indo-European Sumer. language. However recent investigation has demonstrated that the writing system of the Uruk and all later Sumer. texts was prob. not the invention of the Sumerians, although they undoubtedly modified and expanded it to fit their essentially monosyllabic language.
1. These unknown literary predecessors of the Sumerians have been called Proto-Euphrateans, from their apparent place of settlement (B. Landsberger, “Mezopotamya ’da Mendeniyetin Doğuṩu,” Ankara Universitesi Dil ve Tarih-Coğrafya Dergisi [1943-1945]). Some debate has ensued as to who these people were and from where they had come, but until an identifiable Proto-Euphratean settlement is excavated the problems will remain unsolved. However, the discovery in Rumanian Transylvania of an early neolithic village, Tartaria, with a cache of several tablets, all dated by stratigraphy to earlier than 3000 b.c., has enhanced the possibility that the elusive Proto-Euphrateans will be found. A comparison of Uruk and Tartaria signs is shown in figure 2. Perhaps the best solution is simply to denote the Tartaria texts as Proto-Balkan-Danubian. There is little question but that still older and more dispersed written materials will be discovered since the Proto-Balkan-Danubian signs appear to be at least logographic if not already syllabic.
3. Although the Uruk and Tartaria systems are the oldest now known, they were soon followed by a number of scripts of equally unknown origin and as yet quite resistant to decipherment. These all arose in Western Asia and are more hieroglyphic in the sense that the pictographic character of their execution is more obvious. Unlike either of the older systems they seem to be closer to simplified drawings of objects. Also the multiplicity of signs seems to indicate more than a syllabic system, although such a judgment is speculative. Sometime after 3000 b.c., the people of southwestern Iran known as Elamites produced an elaborate writing system called by scholars, Proto-Elamite. The Elamite language is non-Semitic and non-Indoeuropean. It is not related to any other known language, and so the texts as yet defy decipherment. From the placement of what appears to be numerical signs it is judged that they, like the Uruk texts, are economic in content. Dating from a slightly later time, there is a set of symbols on seals and inscribed pottery and metallic sheets. These were fabricated about 2300 b.c. at a group of towns on the Indus River, located at Harappa, Mohenjodaro and Chanhudaro. Specimens of the Proto-Elamite and Proto-Indic signs are seen in figure 3. Hieroglyphics are usually associated with Egypt about whose writing system the name was coined. In the oldest glyptic representations an early almost pictographic form of sign is found. These are on the slate plates, or palettes excavated at Hieraconpolis in Upper Egypt. These palettes yield scenes of the campaigns of ancient prehistoric Egypt. rulers. Although attempts have been made to associate them with known historical figures there is little to base final conclusions upon other than the obvious interpretation of the pictographs (fig. 3). Just what the stages in the later development of the elaborate hieroglyphic system were is now lost but some relationships can be deduced. Before the full blown Egyptian system was completed and, in fact, prior to its founding, the Proto-Euphratean, later Sumer. syllabary had been established and was to be the dominant writing of the Near East from 3000 to 500 b.c. In time the Uruk signs became stylized, and the streamlined and uniform strokes became known as “nail-shaped,” “wedgeshaped” writing in Eng., Keilschrift in Ger., but the French name has stuck as it was derived from the Lat. “cuneus”—“forma.”
The semasiographic
systems fall into three categories: a. Pictographs, simple cartoonlike illustrations of universal recognizance value, such as a picture of an animal or structure with its unique characteristics made obvious, e.g. figure 1: a. Phraseographs, usually several pictographs arranged to indicate an action but sufficiently interrelated that in time they become one effective unit, often the verbal or action indicator in pictographic scripts, e.g. figure 1: b. Logographs are word symbols where one word in 1:1 correspondence with one sign is understood although it is neither drawn visually nor indicated phonetically. Often like the other two types it is totally separate from the languages of the writer or reader. Livestock brands, ownership marks, certain ligatured abbreviations and even trade marks fall into this category. Modern examples abound in such logographs as, “&,” “7-UP,” or “$,” none of which have any relationship whatsoever to the words with which they are read, or the notions with which they are associated. Ancient writing systems often contain so many logograms that the meaning of a text is utterly unintelligible. Another disconcerting aspect of logographs is that they become so completely conventionalized and stylized that like some pictographs the original meaning is lost. In some ancient documents the actual word meant is never written out. It is systematically symbolized with a logogram. The result is that the actual word in the language is unknown, as if all “ands” in the Eng. language should be replaced by “&,” and in time the full spelling of “and” became lost. Some representative logographs are shown for comparison 1:c. Along with and slightly after the rise of the semasiographic systems, the language based phonographic systems appeared in the developing writing systems.Ultimately these tend to ward pure symbolic representation of speech but they fall short due to the necessity to economize the number of signs. This economy usually leads to “polyphony” where one sign has more than one phonetic sound attached to it. It is this difficulty which so aggravates Eng. spelling.
2.Again, as with the semasiographic systems three related phonographic systems arose. They are: a. Syllabic in which every sign represents not simply a unitary sound but also a combination of vowel or vowel plus consonant or consonant plus vowel or in the extreme consonant plus vowel plus consonant. Such a system works quite well with certain types of languages which have monosyllabic words; b. Phonemic systems have one sign for one sound, either a vowel or a consonant. Most syllabaries have dispersed within them perfectly sound phonetic alphabets; c. Subphonemic or, as they may be called, prosodic systems are made up of elaborate diacriticals which like musical notations indicate all nuances of the spoken word.”

My note.                                                                                                                                         Hmm….Proto-Euphratean later Sumer…why not? Read, think and say nothing:
Gr. πέλεκυς pelekus (double bited axe) compared with
Full text of “Bomhard – A Critical Review of Dolgopolsky’s Nostratic …
https://archive.org/…/BomhardACriticalReviewOfDolgopolskysNostraticDictionary/Bo…Nostratic macrofamily
Pal[y]:”to split,to divide” …… *palUKu ‘axe, hammer’: weak. 1717.

Pelekus,yes… but Mycenaean a-qi—ja—i ‘axe’;?

The Nostratic Macrofamily: A Study in Distant Linguistic Relationship
https://books.google.ro/books?isbn=3110875640
Allan R. Bomhard, ‎John C. Kerns
400px-nostratic_tree-svg
Read the rest of this entry »

CONGRATULATIONS, RUMEN KOLEV !/my coments on paper.

June 4, 2018

Careful/ Attention !                                                                                                                                                     This post is not a decipherment or reading of any actual written content of Tartaria tablets. Given that the signs do not belong to a single writing system but to several, the page has a purely didactic character. It has the role of trying and testing different writings, in the idea that the tablets would have used one of them. The signs on the tablets belong to several writing systems over a long period of time and which have been used in different geographical areas. In none of the trials did the signs fall into a single type of writing, there always remained signs that came from other writings (or as coming from the unknown). Most of the signs come from the Sumerian proto-cuneiform -shaped ones. The signs in the upper half of the round tablet seem to come from archaic Greek writing. This “collection” of signs seems to be the fruit of one’s rich imagination. As A. Falkenstein and A. A. Vaiman found, (this is also my firm opinion) the author was not a scribe, he had only vague notions about writing in general, and it is not known what he intended  or he was after. There are many elements of inconsistency as well as others that take the tablets out of the usual patterns and norms of honest logic, writing and intentions.  ====

Here is the paper of the bulgarian scientist, assyrologist RUMEN KOLEV :                                                                          ПЛОЧКИТЕ ОТ ТАРТАРИЯ И ЧАШАТА ОТ СУВОРОВО – ДВА „НАДПИСА” НА РАННАТА ДУНАВСКА КУЛТУРА И РАЗШИФРОВАНЕТО ИМ Румен Колев http://www.su-varna.org/izdanij/Magazin%201%20conf/Pages%20from%2046%20to%2053.pdf

            Out of this, besides, de writing developement is a continous processus for wich there are ( or at least must be found some) evidences. Vinca culture devolepement toward true writing ceased short before (hundreds years?) the moment of reaching the proto-writing stage.                                                      NO SINGLE PROOFED EVIDENCE  OF PROTO-WRITING IN VINCA CULTURE                                                         -So, both of above cited authors (M.Merlini & R.Kolev), were not aware enough of the worldwide developement of humankind and their respective cultures. In a culture, the necesity of keeping evvidences, numeration or religious purposes, must have an coresponding high level of developement and an social stratified hierarchical structure.                                                                                                       THE AGE OF THE BONES CANNOT BE TRANSLATED AUTOMATICALLY AS BEEING THE AGE OF THE TABLETS, ALL WERE FOUND IN AN CULTIC SITE BUT NOBODY KNOWS FOR SURE WHERE WAS IN REALITY PLACED EVERY ITEM !       

Section II – STATE OF THE ART OF THE RESEARCH ON THE NEOLITHICAND COPPER AGE SCRIPT FROM SOUTHEASTERN EUROPE  https://www.academia.edu/8899844/Chapter_3_Existence_of_an_archaic_script_in_Southeastern_Europe_A_long_lasting_querelle_from_the_book_Neo-Eneolithic_Literacy_in_Southeastern_Europe               << 3.C.d Approach 3: Reconciling the tablets with C14 dating evidence maintaining that they might havebeen intrusive from the upper strata >>

From all writing systems used throughout ages SUMERIAN PROTO-CUNEIFORM shows closest. Remember, with proto-cuneiform signs, one cannot write, there is PROTO-WRITING !                     

       Only A.Falkenstein was for sumerian signs:                                                                                          Section II – STATE OF THE ART OF THE RESEARCH ON THE NEOLITHICAND COPPER AGE SCRIPT FROM SOUTHEASTERN EUROPE                                                                                                                                          <<  The leading position was established by A. Falkenstein, responsible for the publication of the tablets fromUruk, who pointed out a strict correlation with Uruk III B that belonged to the same cultural horizon as thoseof Jemdet Nasr and argued that the signs were definitely Sumerian. Falkenstein’s line of reasoning was basedon four pilasters:……                                    Close, but not the same, not sumerian proper, as noticed before ,opinion of the scientists main stream: Makkay, A.A.Vaiman and others, including myself.                                                                                                                                                           Section II – STATE OF THE ART OF THE RESEARCH ON THE NEOLITHICAND COPPER AGE SCRIPT FROM SOUTHEASTERN EUROPE                                                                                                                                               “The tablets, in all probability, are mere imitation of original Mesopotamian ones, made with a magic purpose without any real  understanding, possibly by a person who saw the usage of such tablets somewhere, between Southern Mesopotamia andSouth-eastern Europe, without a real knowledge, however, of the art of writing… It is well-known that theapotropaic power is specially felt among illiterate people” (Makkay 1974/5: 24)     …                                                                                                                                                                                          He presupposed that the mines in Anatolia could no longer satisfy the sudden increase in the demand for gold by the Mesopotamian city-states, therefore the request was channeled – possibly via the entrepreneurial merchants of the Cycladic islands – to the efficient Transylvanian mines (Makkay 1974/5: 27) ………………                                                                                                                                                                                                          Merchant adventurers moving along the routes connecting the Middle and Lower Danube, the Cyclades, Anatolia, and Mesopotamia may have been the go-between. Makkay assumed that the gold of Transylvania made merchants from the Near East, Anatolia and Eastern Aegean establish contacts with that European area and pointed out that the ancient gold producing site of Zlatna in György valley is near Turdaş and Tărtăria. He presupposed that the mines in Anatolia could no longer satisfy the sudden increase in the demand for gold bythe Mesopotamian city-states, therefore the request was channeled – possibly via the entrepreneurial merchants of the Cycladic islands – to the efficient Transylvanian mines (Makkay 1974/5: 27)  …………….                                                                                                                                                                                                                 Gelb attributedthe tablets to Sumerian traders familiar with writing, or to a not better specified inhabitant of Transylvania who had a vague idea of Sumerian documents and aped them (Gelb 1967: 489).

Археологические вести. Спб, 1994. Вып. 3. Аннотации …                                                    A. A. Vaiman. On the QuasiSumerian tablets from Tartaria.                                    ================= in my opinion =========                                                                           The signs are “like” that sumerian proto-cuneiform, (Quasy-sumerian/A.A.Vaiman).Most of the signs reflects some exactly and some close sumerian shapes, thus reflecting an sumerian origin.This genetic filiation is reflected by many writing systems throughout ages and different areas.                                                                                                              Otherwise the display of the signs create the impression of mixed signs (even hodge-podge I dare to say). Don’t know why the scribe choosed to select the signs on every of the three tablets in kind of historical evolution, in three groups.                                                           – Pictographic only, on that pictographic oblong, without hole                                                   – mostly ideogram-logograms  on that oblong with hole                                                             – and some wich became later syllabograms/letters in other writing sistems, on that round one.                                                                                                                                      The scribe seem, (created me the impression) that wanted to parade ond show off his knowledge of the signs.

============================================                                                                              R.Kolev corectly noticed that on the tablet there is ” a mixture of sumerian ideograms and signs”                                                        – As I will show, R.Kolev not to precise identify each sumerian sign and show sumerian appearance and name. But luckily enough he succeded to corect identify many of them (bull/cattle, god, temple, branch/corn, altar, idea of offering, >> =sign “RU”,etc.). Where he has the sun sign, I have the (sun)GOD sign wich is close. All this green underlined are common with mines ! 

 Either don’t know why , and finaly I not grasp his understanding: 

  • As Mr. Merlini correctly observed that the tablets are made as to being carried/worn together around neck. In this situation the squared-one is covering uper side of that round-one. And not without reason. The writer intended that the covered message not to be seen by passer-by, probably is mystic-related and has a degree of power upon subjects on wich rituals were performed. Or used in rituals wich interfered with the people’s course of life or destiny.
  • So I do not understand at all why Mr. Kolev choosed to read in the first time (and only !) the visible mesage, not realising that the covered mesage could have a paramount importance !?
  • ==========================================                                                                THE EXOTERIC TEXT / OBLONG TABLET WITH HOLE                                                  Image from http://www.proel.org/index.php?pagina=alfabetos/tartaria
  • Image result for escritura de ayer y de hoy tartaria
  • Out of the Kolev’s  “3 Moons” ,                                                                                                there are some 6 boxes, if one begin reading in circle, counterclockwise begining frum top. columns with signs.                                                                                                  Sign number from your sign-list table:                                                                                   ————————————
  • 1.  you: meaning “3 Moons”                                                                                                   Me: Could be, but as well could be
  • Me:   “3 x number 1″=”number 3” ?
  •            30? Image result for number sumerian 30
  • From   An Historical Survey of Number Systems
  • So “3 barley,grain ratios”
    ———————————————
    From 1-st column,                                                                                                                      2. you:Symbol CORN                                                                                                                     Me: GOOD rendering . Note that the sign has a name.                                                    It is “SZE”:”barley,grain” Image, from Hot Cup of Joe: The Rise of Sumerian Culture
  • Image result for sumerian proto cuneiform  "wheat"
  • From cdli.ucla.edu › tools › SignLists › protocuneiform › archsigns
  • “Sze”                                                                                                                            ——————————————
  • 3. You:?damaged sign?                                                                                                             NOT FOUND by you.                                                                                                                 Me: the sign cdli.ucla.edu › tools › SignLists › protocuneiform › archsigns                                                                                      is PAP
  • Is sygnifying “1” or sign “BAD” “to open,to let out, to die”
    file:///C:/Users/User/Downloads/2602-Article%20Text-5433-1-10-20150202.pdf
    Sumerian BAD ‘when, as’, ‘master, lord’, ‘to depart,’                                                           ————————————————-
    4. you:”sign ES”temple” ,                                                                                                          Me:There is NO “ES” with such shape !,                                                                                   but AB:”house,temple” it is.
    me: the sign is “AB” meaning “abode,temple,house”                                                   cdli.ucla.edu › tools › SignLists › protocuneiform › archsigns
  •   ———————————————————–
  • 5. you: symbol “SUN”.NOT SHOWNED by you any SUN sign.
    Me: No, Mr. Kolev, the sign you showed was never an sumerian sign for sun !!!    (only in ancient Aegean realm)                                                                                                Could be sumerian sign  cdli.ucla.edu › tools › SignLists › protocuneiform › archsigns  SZENUR
  • Much close than “ SKY-GOD/SUN-GOD” is “Sky, heaven, Sky-God AN“, wich has a star-like shape    cdli.ucla.edu › tools › SignLists › protocuneiform › archsigns    AN                                                                                                                                   —————————————
    6. you: GUD symbol :Bull/Enlil                                                                                                         Me:  could be Bull, but you did not specify or show wich sign.
    The sign is UD5
  • But not proper bull, cause the head has triangle-shaped !
  •  cdli.ucla.edu › tools › SignLists › protocuneiform › archsigns
  •  AMAR (CALF/vitellus)
  • Note: It seems that an early sign UD5 reprezented BOVIDAE, that mean bulls and/or goats !                                                                                                                                     From cdli.ucla.edu › tools › SignLists › protocuneiform › archsigns      UD5~c
  • See No.7: Ud5                                                                                                        https://brill.com/view/book/9789004352223/BP000008.xml?language=en
  •  ————————————————————————————–
  • 7. you: ? symbol “Cattle ?” me:
    YES “but not proper cattle , but BULL” The shape is much close to                                   From 7. What Is Known about Linear A
    http://people.ku.edu/~jyounger/LinearA/                                                                              Mu=”Bull”  the bull head #012 
    (? also could be,combined signs Hi+Bar+Bar:” be numerous,multiply,spread out”?) ———————————————————————————
  •  8. Symbol ES “Temple” ; me: YES “Temple” but there is no proto-cuneiform sign ES:”temple”. You did not show the sign ES how
    is like! Sign AB showned before “Abode,house,temple” ===================================
    ROUND TABLET, LOWER HALF                                                                                                 9. you:SYMBOL BA :”give,offer”;                                                                                                                        me:YES (not exactly give,offer)
  • meaning:”divide into shares,share,halve, to allot
    My note:
    In sumerian the signs house +bull it is representing “the house of sun-Bull”, 2-nd representation of
    the sun, underground Sun :”NERGAL”                                                                                   ——————————————
    10. you: symbol RU:to sprinkle”( also:  to dedicate; to fall; to throw down”)                               me: YES.But you not show the sumerian sign and its name
  •  cdli.ucla.edu › tools › SignLists › protocuneiform › archsigns
  • But not read Ru-Ru as you said, ONLY “RU”
    meaning RU:”poor out, impregnate
  • R.Kolev: ” signs 9/Ba and 10/Ru combined has the meaning of “to offer an libation”.
  • Me: No, Mr. Kolev their combined meanings are BaRu:
  •  From Sumerian Lexicon … de JA Halloran … .A bārû, in ancient Mesopotamian religion, is a practitioner of a form of divination based on hepatoscopy, … ——————————————————-
    11. you:symbol ENSI,PA high priest, branch !??                                                                    ” Sign 11,with sumerian phonetic value of ‘PA’ may mean also ‘branch’,’sceptre’, associated with power but maybe also with the holy tree.Actually its meaning of ‘club’,’scepter’ was its primal meaning  followed by that of ‘someone with a club,scepter’,’overseer’, someone in power’, ‘high priest’.”                                                   Finally he chossed ‘priest‘                                                                                                         me:YES, yes PA, but sign PA not meaning ENSI !.                                                                 From cdli.ucla.edu › tools › SignLists › protocuneiform › archsigns
  • 1. From The Proto-Sumerian Language Invention Process by John A. Halloran
    http://www.sumerian.org/prot-sum.htm
    pa4,5,6(-r): “irrigation ditch, small canal, dike” me:??
    2.meaning also: “swear, take an oath”
    3.From http://oracc.museum.upenn.edu/dcclt/intro/ob_lu_szu.html
    the word ugula “overseer” (line 145) is written with the PA-sign
    Combined signs Ba Ru Pa:”Give/OMEN”
    ———————————————————–
    12. KOLEV: “Signs 12 and 13,’fire’ and ‘altar’ taken together should mean ‘to make sacrifice’ ”                                                                                                                            symbol NE “fire” Labat 172 YOU DID NOT SHOW THE SHAPE not fire nor NE; I suppose you are refering to                                                                                              From cdli.ucla.edu › tools › SignLists › protocuneiform › archsigns   NE
    that on left !? Labat 172 is not proto-cuneiform!                                                                                                                                                                                                          me: Quite close.You see that our sign not reflect the sign NE shape ;  the sign is
  • From cdli.ucla.edu › tools › SignLists › protocuneiform › archsigns 
  •   SZA
  • Sza, Sa=”to dry”                                                                                                                     From Sumerian Lexicon – Sumerian.org  by JA Halloran                                                              ša: to dry up 
      This could be related to fire, in fact an portable altar and for burning incense !                                   ————————————-
    13.you ?symbol? Altar ?
    me: not found by you. It is
  • From cdli.ucla.edu › tools › SignLists › protocuneiform › archsigns
  •   sign ARARMA
  • Sun-God Shamas abode/temple,shrine”      (ud.ab)
  •   From Notes and Links on Larsa | e n e n u r u
    << For instance, the shrine at Larsa devoted to the ‘sungod‘ Utu/Shamash is represented by quite different … UNU˚, often simplified to ud.ab˚, and read in Sumerian as “Ararma” (MSL 11 p12l. 6: ≠UD±.UNUárárma ki and p. 54, l. 10: [a.ra].                                                                                                                               ——————————————————————————————————-                      REGARDING UPER HALF OF THE ROUND TABLET (coverd part) SIGNS:
    SIgn with shape of Cheth/Heth/Heta/Archaic Eta;                                                 
  • You:”Sign 1, looks somewhat damaged in
    the low left part.But what is left is enough to reconstruct it as the Sumerian sign” …and you sharply stopped explaing the sign.”Tell-tale sign is that the number 5 ( or 7 ) is connected with the First Quarter Moon, which happens really
    around the 5th-7th day after the appearance of the First Lunar Crescent.
    symbol or phonetic value: Meaning: Labat number 1: EN: Lord 99″
    me: NO way ! You said :”looks somewhat damaged in
    the low left part” Not at all.No trace of ligature from low end.I understand you are only imagining
    this, in order to have an other supposed sign wich is matching with an known proto=cuneiform sign.
    On proto-cuneiform signlist, https://cdli.ucla.edu/tools/SignLists/protocuneiform/archsigns.html
    NO EN/ENSI SIGNS COME OR EVEN RESEMBLING BY FAR OUR SIGN
    You suppose sign EN and Mr.A.Vaiman suppose an APIN sign. WRONG FOR BOTH OF YOU !.
    ———————————————————————————————
    It is close to proto-sumerian sign KU                                                                                From https://cdli.ucla.edu/tools/SignLists/protocuneiform/archsigns.html

  • From: The Proto-Sumerian Language Invention Process by John A. Halloran http://www.sumerian.org/prot-sum.htm
    ku: to base, found, build; to lie down (reduplication class) [KU archaic frequency: 64; concatenates 3 sign variants].From Sumerian Cuneiform Dictionary Mugsar Online mugsarsumerian.com/default.htm                                                                                     Sep 5, 1996 – The epochal Mugsar is the only standalone online Sumerian Cuneiform Dictionary … TRUE ETYMOLOGY | Proto Language Monosyllables PLM …… KU3, kug [1342x] = (to be) pure; [3875x] = metal, silver; (to be) bright, shiny .or
  • Note Signs D could mean also:
  • http://oi.uchicago.edu/oi.uchicago.edu › pdf › mad2                                                                                               old akkadian writing and grammar – Oriental Institute
    http://oi.uchicago.edu/
    << NINDA KU “they eat bread” >>
  •  ——————————————————————————————
    D-shape sign; you: symbol or phonetic value: Meaning: Labat number
    you,sign 2: symbol: Moon, The Moon god
    ?.Moon? maybe.But sumerians figured moon allwais lying:
  • You did not show how sumerian were figuring Moon or Moon God (Sin/Nanna!).
    Sumerian Questions and Answers – Sumerian Language Page
    http://www.sumerian.org/sumerfaq.htmR. K. Englund & J.-P. Grégoire, The Proto-Cuneiform Texts from Jemdet Nasr, …… itud, itid, itu, iti, id8; it4, id4: moon; month; moonlight (i3-, ‘impersonal verbal …
    They had other signs for month begining from the sign UD=”day” and modifying it to
    obtain in adition the signs for “month” and “year”
  • me: Sumerian used to represent Moon only crescent-turkic shape
  • “D-shape” sign, could be sign GAR
  • But much better “1”
  • KU & Sin/Suen
    my rendering :”BRIGHT,SHINY MOON”
    ——————————————————————————————–
    Sign +++++ you: “CORN”
  • Me: Could be .You did not show the sumerian sign.It is SE/SZE:”barley,wheat”
  • In fact the sign +++++ is Asz !!                                                                                                 From cdli.ucla.edu › tools › SignLists › protocuneiform › archsigns
  • Sign row D D o o                                                                                                                    you:”Phases of the moon” me: could be;
  • https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-2526a72d95e0dbe0c1d35ab835426981-c

  • You come first (may 22 2008-2010 )
    Bab Sky Science Dr. Varna.22May-15 June 2008материалознание известия на съюза на учените –
    варна 2’2Collection 01 Abstract | Babylonia | Astronomy – Scribd
    https://www.scribd.com › document › Ba…
  • by Rumen Kolev A COLLECTION of writings from 2000 – 2010 …. DECODING of the TARTARIA TABLETS 010 44 плочките PDFwww.su-varna.org › izdanij МАТЕРИАЛОЗНАНИЕ. ИЗВЕСТИЯ НА
    СЪЮЗА НА УЧЕНИТЕ – ВАРНА 2’2010. 44. ПЛОЧКИТЕ ОТ ТАРТАРИЯ И ЧАШАТА ОТ …to propose
    moon phases and after you,second come Mr. Merlini to propose the same (moon phases ) in 2015.
    Chronograms from the Danube Civilization to procreate a Child of the Moon Constantin-Emil Ursu,
    Adrian Poruciuc, Cornelia-Magda Lazarovici (eds.), From Symbols to Signs, Editura Karl A.
    Romstorfer, Suceava, 2015: 133-200
    ———————————————————————————————-
    me:number 22 or 1
  • ( see here DDD oo number 3+10+10 “23” /upside left corner/                                     Image, from https://cdli.ucla.edu/pubs/cdlj/2009/cdlj2009_004_fig/Figure3.jpg
  • The interpretation of pictographic tablet is converging/consistent with the other two tablets interpretations:
  •                                                                                                                                                      There is about of an offering/see the misty human silhuette (PA:”overseer), with outstreched hands, (Ba:”distribute, alot“) to the Sky-God (An) and to Sun-god Samas, this last represented by the calf (AMAR);  …..                                                             ? For good crops, for eating bread (Ninda-Ku) ?                                                                      We have also the Bull sign , related also to sun (but much similar in shape with Linear A:”Mu”=”Bull”)                                                                                                                           The  offering/sacrifice ritual was performed by a BaRu (a practitioner of a form of divination based on hepatoscopy, diviner), … he divide in shares, allot (Ba) and poor out, impregnate (Ru) with water?incense?                                                                  It consisted of some measures (DDoo 1+1+10+10=22?) of cereals, wheat (Asz/As) and goats (at least two on pictographic tablet; Ud5).                                                                          There are pictured also the religion signs :                                                                        ARARMA:’inner, sacred precinct of the Sun-God Samas temple and                               Sza. Sa: “to dry up” (incence?)
  • Note:                                                                                                                                            As well could be involved the god  +++++=”As”:”single,unique” and “Sur” = AsSur, where “00” means “whole”
  • ==========================
  • https://oi.uchicago.edu/The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the …

     << When the diviner, who was called baru,poured oil into a bowl of water which he held .>>
    http://www.etana.org/http://www.etana.org › sites › default › files › coretexts                                                                       yale oriental series – Etana
    http://www.etana.org/ancient mesopotamia – Oriental Institute – University of Chicago                           …   ” the baru “seer” or “inspector.” 

The sacred cryptograms of Tartaria.Comments on Marco Merlini’s article.

May 31, 2018

Careful/ Attention !                                                                                                                                            This post is not a decipherment or reading of any actual written content of Tartaria tablets. Given that the signs do not belong to a single writing system but to several, the page has a purely didactic character. It has the role of trying and testing different writings, in the idea that the tablets would have used one of them. The signs on the tablets belong to several writing systems over a long period of time and which have been used in different geographical areas. In none of the trials did the signs fall into a single type of writing, there always remained signs that came from other writings (or as coming from the unknown). Most of the signs come from the Sumerian proto-cuneiform -shaped ones. The signs in the upper half of the round tablet seem to come from archaic Greek writing. This “collection” of signs seems to be the fruit of one’s rich imagination. As A. Falkenstein and A. A. Vaiman found, (this is also my firm opinion) the author was not a scribe, he had only vague notions about writing in general, and it is not known what he intended  or he was after. There are many elements of inconsistency as well as others that take the tablets out of the usual patterns and norms of honest logic, writing and intentions. =====

The Sacred Cryptograms from Tărtăria: Unique or Widespread Signs …

http://www.academia.edu/…/The_Sacred_Cryptograms_from_Tărtăria_Unique_or_Widespr&#8230;

 Note

There is a paper of a bulgarian scientist RUMEN KOLEV :

ПЛОЧКИТЕ ОТ ТАРТАРИЯ И ЧАШАТА ОТ СУВОРОВО – ДВА „НАДПИСА” НА РАННАТА ДУНАВСКА КУЛТУРА И РАЗШИФРОВАНЕТО ИМ Румен Колев http://www.su-varna.org/izdanij/Magazin%201%20conf/Pages%20from%2046%20to%2053.pdf

 wich go close to my conclusions of my sumerian aproach, but he choosed not to precise identify each sumerian sign and show sumerian appearance and name. But luckily enough he succeded to corect identify many of them (bull/cattle, god, temple, branch/corn, altar, idea of offering&gt;&gt;=sign “RU”,etc.). Where he has the sun sign, I have the (sun)GOD sign wich is close.                                      All this green underlined are common with mines !

 Either don’t know why he not took the tablets separately and choosed to get meanings reading them only as beeing superposed.     

 
I am admiring the monumental efforts and researches of this schollar in the large field of Vinca-Turdas 
 

Civilisation and especially those focussed on the supposed “Vinca writing”. My congratulations ! No Romanian 

spend more time and efforts on this field.Nor had more results.One to be noticed is Alex Imreh.

An italian is using and depassing  german-style and methods. Either in perseverence, acuracy, sharp-

reasoning or whatever you want.

The M.Merlini paper is very inciting. I wish would coment every line of it.

but must follow every line and not have sufficient time to follow and make comments on them.

So my first short comments are:

– You got in a kind of maze when compare Vinca Civilisation library of signs with Vinca (Tartaria tablets)

supposed writing signs.

 Talking of magic rituals is intersting but not of effective great help when  discuss is getting to 

writing signs and writing.Information could be transmited in many ways in proto-writing but only

 when are transmited words is proper-writing.And those ways cuould be mixed in intermediate 

phases of writing developement.

 

-Do not realise that Vinca civilisation realised the aproaching steps to writing but generally remained 

at those much earlier phases of writing.

Earlier phases than those of the tablets (5-6.000 BC for Vinca signs oposed/compared to say 3000-1500 BC

for Tartaria tablets writing).

– Hope you realised but not explained to people enough what is proto writing.The Vinca civilisation used 

mostly elementary signs (wich part of them could be or not abstractised signs for some notions) and ones 

wich could go to ornaments .You or someone else cannot  proove definitely that even come to the 

stage of proto-writing, (as to use icons and ideograms to express ideas ). If you can proove that, I am 

waiting one concrete case explained.Could be no your or someone-else guess or personal idea but that exemple 

must be agreed and accepted by anyone to wich are exposed the case. So strong and in a unique definite 

one way manner.So sound must be the interpretation.

-DEFINITION https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Writing writing represents language and emotions with signs 
and symbols

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptogram cryptogram is a type of puzzle that consists of a short piece of encrypted text.[1] Generally the cipher used to encrypt the text is simple enough that the cryptogram can be solved by hand. there is no cypher here.



Not our case.IF THE READEAR DOES NOT KNOW THE RULE OF CRIPTING (CIPHER) NO EVER or nobody at medium level CAN READ.What the crap if the text suppose would be really cyphered !?

We have no proper cryptograms on Tartaria tablets so people could be in dissaray/derouted about your given paper title.

Not to beeing enough if we do not know the language of that supposed writing, nor the writing system what is missing now is the fact that the writing to be encrypted. “When nobody knows to write who knows to read?” as asked Mr. Napoleon Savescu.

You are not aware of the results when kept mixed and not fully explained the ideas of crypting a text with covering a text.The writer of tablets did not use an system to translate or hide the meaning.Only phisically covered the supposed writing/text.You realise the difference between cripting and covering.He/her (supposed writer) only phisically covered the thext wich is not CRYPTOGRAM(s) at all.
-Even if the information is available to everybody, I wonder why on Earth you not get close to :
– sumerian proto-cuneiform sign library (nor proto-elamite/Harappa proto-writing) 
– Anatolian writings ones, nor CARIAN, (even as we know of  many migration waves  between Anatolia and Aegean/Balcans).Not get close and compare Linear A signs or not talking of cretan hieroglyphic,archaic greek, anatolian,iberian venetic etruscan writings.
 
-not studied enough aegean  library of icons signs.You are telling of “clepsidra sign” ( I am sure you recognised our ancestors paramount sign ORION or LABRYS !?)
– You know old chinese/japanese  “ny” sign (sun) or old hebrew phoenician sign keth/heth/cheth or linear A/B pa3  or archaic greek Heta/Eta.
-Our common ancestors related to Vinca civilisation wich not dropped from  the sky. 
– You cannot relate Tartaria tablets signs to Vinca signs cause those are much earlier but why not compare anatolian (e.g. carian) old hebrew, iberian, venetic or other sistems of writing ? One could realise that have there all  needed signs? https://tied.verbix.com/project/script/asiam6.jpg
 
– One think that a computer with whatever software can give better results than human mind?  Dat-Das comparison had very poor results (see percentages as 18%) ! You some-how passed-over old basic European. BALCANIC=AEGEAN areas ancient paramount-level signs. See Orion=LABRYS= Great Mother sign, supposed y-sign (see linear A/B cretan signs),W =Cassiopeia.  There is not much present the East, Aegean areas.You noticed  the Cycladic-type artefacts beside Tartaria tablets and not comented.

SMART DISCOVERY, (supposed mesage intentional covered);SOLE AUTHOR: MARCO MERLINI

If it is about magic and religion it is realy possible and we have many explanations at different levels for the fact that message to be hidden from view of the ordinary  passing-by people.                           only individuals supposed to “charming” ritual had the right to hear the message.As to read….., you only could suppose in those times how many, in fact only few of them could read or understand the message/signs.                                                                                                                                       we could think of the tablets as a holy component  comparing with an portable altar.                               If think as a component of a type of religion, as a church have an inner sanctum (begining with sumerians) so covered portion is the inner sanctum of the tablets.                                                               – think of tablets and other objects used in ritual as greek used MAGIKA HIERA=”SACRED MAGIC”

Isis Magic : Articles : Isis and Magika Hiera – Hermetic Fellowship

Yes, this Great Egyptian Goddess is many other things, too—wisdom, power, … all these are magic, and specifically magika hiera, Greek for sacred magic.


On the ‘hiera’ of the Eleusinian Mysteries | Baring the Aegis
baringtheaegis.blogspot.com/2015/09/on-hiera-of-eleusinian-mysteries.html


Sep 30, 2015 – Many ancient Hellenic religious traditions–and especialy Mystery Traditions–have hiera‘ (ἱερὰ), sacred objects. These objects are usually …

 

WHAT COULD BE SACRED MESSAGE ON TABLET ??

 

exemple :

 signs HP                                            Se

 

                                                      R b o c

 

HaR/HeR(os)                           SeRBOS=SERVOS

 

 

 

Tăbliţele de la Tărtăria – Page 5 – Forumul Softpedia
https://forum.softpedia.com › topic › pag…
Mar 10, 2012 · 18 posts · 11 authors
Din What was the Proto-Indo -European religion like … This word comes from the root *xar-, meaning “to fit … *h2er “to assemble skilfully”, present in Greek harma …
PDFhttps://caio.ueberalles.net › Indo-Europea…
Chairs in Indo-European linguistics without particular ties to Sanskrit were created …. of chairs for Indo-European linguistics at universities. …… Cf. Proto-Gerrnanic ‘xar-ja- = Got.
 
http://biblehub.com/greek/5479.htm Cognate: 5479 xará (another feminine noun from the root xar-, “extend favor, lean towards, be favorably disposed”) – properly, the awareness (of God’s) gracefavorjoy (“grace recognized”).
And relation between servos and heros;
 

Etymology

From Serbo-Croatian Srbi, from Proto-Slavic *sьrbъ (ally, Serb, Sorb), from Proto-Indo-European *ser- (to protect, watch over); akin to Latin servo (I guard, I protect)Old English searu (weapons, armor)Lithuanian sárgas (watchman)Greek ἥρως (hrōshero),
 

BUT MORE, AND EQUAL INTERESTING

See

1.the stroke inside 1-st “D”  ?”i”?

2.vertical line from 2-nd “D” upwards    ?”b“?

signs
HP/HD             Di b o c
reading
Hede,ede (“this here”)                                            Dibos /deibos/deivos (=GOD!)

Heros/Hera (Lord,Lady)

dios – Wiktionary

Asturian Wikipedia has an article on: dios … Ladino dio), from Latin deus, from Old Latin deivos, from Proto-Italic *deiwos, from Proto-Indo-European *deywós.

Deus – Wikipedia
https://en.m.wikipedia.org › wiki › Deus
Deus is Latin for “god” or “deity”. Latin deus and dīvus “divine”, are descended from Proto- Indo-European *deiwos, “celestial” or “shining



The truth about Macedonia: – Network54
www.network54.com › Forum › message
of The Indo-European words: Reeka, Ree, Rea and River …. We also know that Zeus is the Supreme God and’ rules’ the other gods on the tallest … as “qibos [5] = Dibos = divos” This has very close affinity to the Greek word qeios=qeos which .

 

 ALSO GOD=ZEUS,ZEU



“IF” Zoo=Zou=DDoo=DDou because of shift Z>>”DD”



Late Laconian dialect inscriptions and spoken Laconian in the Imperial Period …
www.academia.edu › Late_Laconian_dia…
… of Copenhagen – torerovskris@gmail.com 2.5.5 /d/ or /g/ + /i̯ / yields /dd/ in Laconian vs. Attic /zd/ or /dz/ – spelling vacillates between < ΔΔ> and <Ζ> since the Archaic period.



So, there are twoo posibilitiees to have written there the name of GOD !

 



Aion/Ion; Kogaion/Kugaion ;(dar numai in greaca:”Kogaionon” !)

May 10, 2018

Aion/Ion; Kogaion/Kugaion, (dar numai in greaca:“Kogaionon !)


Asa cum veti vedea, numele stramosului mitic ION,al zeului timpului AION si acela al muntelui sacru KOGAION sant mult timp in spate legate istoric..KOGAION, AION si ION.Origini si legaturi lingvistice.Originea lor este mult departe inapoi in timp.

De exemplu sumerienii obisnuiau sa asocieze un termen zeilor si regilor.
Pentru zei, foloseau inainte de cuvant un semn ca o stea * ce insemna DINGIR:”zeu,ceresc”.Acelasi semn il aplicau si in cazul unor regi (Lugal).Lingvistii de azi, cand traduc un text,inlocuiesc acest semn cu litera D pusa tot la fel inaintea cuvantului.
.Pentru regi acest semn avea rolul de a sublinia, scoate in evidenta  caracterul sacru asemanator-zeiesc .Denumirea sumeriana pentru rege era LUGAL:”LU-GAL”=”om-mare”.Ei asociau acestui Lugal=rege un termen care arata caracterul inalt,sacru al regelui.

Lu-gal  +Numele regelui + Kuga
om-mare+   Nume     + inalt,pur,sacru sau                                                                                   semnul*”zeu,zeiesc”(lingvistii il inlocuiesc cu “D”)+nume+kuga

From Ur-du-kuga – Wikipedia   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ur-du-kuga

<< Ur-dukuga, written dur-du6-kù-ga, ca. 1767 BC – 1764 BC (short chronology) or ca. 1830–1828 BC (middle chronology), was the 13th king of the 1st dynasty of Isin and reigned for 4 years according to the Sumerian King List,>>


Fundamentals of Sumerian Grammar / Grundzuge der Sumerischen Grammatik

https://books.google.ro/books?isbn=1597522988 –
Arno Poebel, ‎K. C. Hanson ; kug-a „glänzend“, „rein“, „heilig“

kug-a:”stralucitor”,regesc,sfant.
Pentru presupusul nume KOGAION care pare a fi un nume cumva distorsionat, acesta poate fi interpretat rapid ca si:

1.KUGA-ION :”Bunicul,STRAMOSUL-Ion”, pentru ca Lycianul Kuga inseamna bunic.

In Hellenistic times, the abridged name appears in Lycia as Kouyac/0, since the Lycian word kuga-, “grandfather“, is identical with the earlier huh(h)a-. If Hhh is …

Dumneavostra veti intreba, si ce avem noi in comun cu Lyceenii?
*Se spune ca originea comuna a Latinilor deci a Romanilor si Romanilor este respectiv in Lidia pentru romani si Lycia pentru daci,romani.
Romanii gandeau si erau invatati la scoala ca ei provin din Lidia, stramosul Enea care a plecat dupa razboiul din Troia in Peninsula Italica si deasemenea ca stramosul lor era LUDUS
Romanii stiu ca dacii aveau cultul lupului si venerau lupul.Lycos in greaca inseamna “lucitor” ca si lat.”luce” rom:”a luci” stralucitor.Denumirea lupului venea de la faptul ca baga groaza in oameni cu ochii sai care straluceau noaptea.

From Coniugazione verbo narro latino dating – Duck DNS biginfoysaz.duckdns.org › Coniugazione-verbo-narro-latino-dating                                                                                           << Bodies were first placed in a kokh –a deep, narrow cave –or on an … dead were …>>

From Authenticating the Activities of Jesus   https://books.google.ro › books

Bruce David Chilton, ‎Craig Alan Evans – 1999 – ‎Religion

The Jews of Early Roman Palestine had a long tradition of prompt burial of the dead. … were stopped, and strips of cloth were wrapped tightly around the body … tomb, usually a small rock-cut cave entered through a narrow opening that could be … Palestine: (1) the kokh or loculus, a deep narrow slot in the wall of the tomb,

                                                                                                                                                              KOKH-Aion > KOGh-Aion=”eternal grave” of time-God Aion, or of the Romanian ancestor, Ion.

                                                                                                                                               greaca:ION=”umblator” A-ION:”fix”
2.KUGAION, KUGA-AION, “templul, asezamantul, salasul sacru al lui Ion” pentru ca asemanator,
MUSAION, sau HERAION sant MUSA+AION, HERA+AION :”locul fix,templul lui MUSA(arte),sau asezamantul zeitei  HERA.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kogaionon Kogaionon a fost muntele sacru al Daco-Getilor, locul unde Zalmoxis a stat intr-o pestera subterana pentru trei ani. Dupa disparitia in Kogaionon, el a fost considerat mort de catre geti dar dupa trei ani el a revenit la viata si s-a aratat poporului, care a devenit convins de rugile sale sfinte cand a iesit din Kogaionon. Strabo pretindea ca un rau cu acelasi nume curgea in vecinatate.
O traducere moderna Kogaionon ar fi “Muntele Sacru” care poate fi conexata cu un posibil cuvant Dacic kaga care inseamna sacru, cuvant atestat in doua inscriptii timpurii din Tomis.

ion,gr.”mergator,calator”, aion:”fix” aionon:”timp infinite,etern
Astfel Kogaionon are doua intelesuri in acelasi timp.
koga-aionon : sacru-etern si templul sacrului-Ion sau mai degraba Zeul eternitatii, Aion.

Legaturi intre Aion si sumerianul Oannes:

Religion Before Adam – Lost History

lost-history.com/adam.php

A Babylonian priest named Berossus reinvigorated interest in the figure during the 200’s B.C., using the name of Oannes, a corruption of U-an, another name of …… He was also known as Aeon, a word used by Gnostics to describe the angel-like emanations of God, or in the oneness of God, such as the name Aion teleos, …

De fapt KOGAIONON nu este distorsionat pentru ca Koga este o dezvoltare lingvistica comuna in limbile Indo-Europene (dar nu numai):
GOGA &gt;&gt; KOGA.
Goga are originile in preajma regelui GUGU, cunoscut si sub numele de Gyges.
GUG/GOG este o radacina lingvistica Indo-Europeana care semnifica:”rotund,mare,inalt,umflat”
Deasemenea are intelesul de conducator (cu radacina I.Europeana “Ag”) : vezi DEMAGOGOS:DEMOS-AGOGOS:”conducatorul poporului”
Relativ la Ion, a fost un stramos al popoarelor respectiv ca si ramurilor greaca si latina precum Pelegus (“pelasgian”) dar mult mai vechi.
Dar Ion are legaturi si cu sumerianul Oannes ,iar acesta prin particula AN cu “cer/zeu” sau cu zeul pamantului Enki (domn-pamant)
KUGA-ION este ca si  KUGA-AN care este gresit, nu pentru ca KugaAn este echivalentului zeului Azag, un zeu subteran asociat cu taramul mortii si moartea.In schimb  KUGA-an-na.
KUGA-AN-AN it is: “sacru,pur-zeu,cer”
An(En) + An=Domn,zeu+Cer———————————————————————————————————
Nu avem numai lantul muntos GODEANU/GOGEANU                                                              (GUD-ANU,Gudanna?) GOG-ANu:”mare-ceresc”
Encyclopedia fiarelor si monstrilorin mituri,legende si folclor
https://books.google.ro/books?isbn=0786495057 Theresa Bane
Variatii: TAURUL CERESC, Gugalana :Un taur monstruos din Sumerul antic, Gudanna (“un atacator”) a fost descris ca fiind gigantic si avand respiratia atat de otravitoare ca putea sa omoare deodata 200 de luptatori …….

Gugalanna – Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gugalanna
In religia Sumeriana, Gugalanna este primul sot al zeitatii Ereshkigal, regina lumii de jos.
——————————————————————————————————-                  Instead
Azi avem printr-e popoarele din Asia kogea ; turk Hogea rom.kogeamite :”ceva (de dimensiuni?) anormal,excesiv de mari, foarte mare”
Din https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khawaja
Khawaja or khwaja (Arabic: خواجة‎) este un titlu onorific folosit pe cuprinsul Orientului Mijlociu,Asia de Sud,Asia de Sud-Est si Asia Centrala in mod particular inspre invatatorii Sufi teach. Cuvantul vine din cuvantul iranian khwāja (Pharsi: خواجه khāje; Dari khājah; Tajik khoja) si se traduce ca maestru,invatator,domn si in sens arhaic “nobil,gentleman”. Pronuntiile hodja or hoca (Turkish), খাজা (Khaaja) (Bengali), hodža(Bosnian), hoxha (Albanian), hodža (Serbian), hotzakis (Greek), hogea (Romanian), koja (Javanese)[1] and al-khawaja[2] sant de asemenea folosite. Numele este deasemenea folosit in Egipt si Sudan pentru a indica o persoana de o nationalitate straina sau cu origine straina.  Khawaja este deasemenea un supra-nume printre etnicii  Kashmir.
I found another root:https://books.google.ro › books
Allan R. Bomhard, John C. Kerns · 1994 · Language Arts &amp; Disciplines
Pokorny 1959:517-518 *kago-, *kogo-, -a- ‘ goat’; Walde 1927-1932.1:336-337 *qago-, * qogo-, -a-; Mann 1984-1987:459 *kag- ‘goat, kid, goatskin’; Gamkrelidze-Ivanov …


Uncategorized « Cradle of Civilization

https://aratta.wordpress.com › page
May 18, 2015 · … the first element is probably cognate with hedge, which derives from           PIE *kagh– ..…. 8000-9000 BCE) from the Zagros mountains and northern Mesopotamia , rather (hedge:imprejmuire,gard)
*********************************************************************************

*Nota
As vrea sa clarific niste lucruri, despre care nu stiu cum stau lucrurile de fapt.Nici cercetatorii de marca nu au clarificat aceste lucruri si au opinii diferite (si in legatura cu care eu am niste pareri si idei proprii):
1. Ce fel de oameni,markerul lor genetic si de unde au venit popoarele culturii VECHII EUROPE/Danubiene/Vinca-Turdas.
2.Cand, in cate valuri si pe ce ruta au venit popoarele Indo-Europene.
3.Daca Lycienii si Lidienii erau populatii native Anatoliei rude ale hititilor sau rude mai indepartate a sumerienilor.
4.Daca parte din ei au migrat inspre Europa sau a fost invers: o migratie timpurie a populatiei Danubiene inspre Anatolia (asemanator cum se presupune ca au fost Brugii&gt;&gt;Frigienii )
5.Cate valuri ale populatiei care au adus agricultura in Europa din Sumer sau Anatolia precum si cand.
6.Daca un numar relativ mic sau grupuri mici, familii de sumerieni sau Anatolieni au venit in Serbia si Dacia folosindu-se de prelucrarea metalelor ca indeletnicire primara si mai putin de abilitatile de agricultori.
7. Daca exista o legatura, a Dacilor, si in ce grad  cu popoarele Lycian,si al Gutilor (acestia din urma un popor din muntii Zagros, (care printre altele au cucerit la un moment dat Sumerul).
8.Care a fost exact relatia si legatura intre Danubieni si Egeeni.


Sumerian KUGA, altaic KOGEA, lycian XUGA/KUGA, tur.hodja rom.Hogea

Probably the innitial meaning was holy.sacred and continued to be applied in anatolian family languages , and I.-European/ lycian, as from expressing sacred, to “most revered”, for ancestors, here “grandfather”.                                                                                                      ————————————————————————–

From  Was Eridu The First City in Sumerian Mythology? Peeter Espak

file:///C:/Users/User/Downloads/EspakFsKulmar.pdf

 

“Hallo also tried to interpret an Early Dynastic Ukg. 15 based on the Neo- or Late Babylonian incantation-building ritual text that contains a creation myth usually titled “The Founding of Eridu” or “The Creation of the World by Marduk.” The mythological motives refl ected in the text might represent early prototypes of the later Enuma eliš myth, assuming that the original composition of the text might have taken place during the Kassite period. The idea that Marduk (or Enki/Ea) created the world, other gods, and also mankind is, however, nowhere to be found in the mythological texts in the earlier Sumerian or Old-Babylonian accounts. The fi rst lines of the myth state that before the creation started, there were no temples of the gods, reeds, trees, bricks (construction materials for the temples), or cities. It is stated that E-Kur in Nippur, E-Anna in Uruk, and Abzu in Eridu were not yet built. All the lands were sea, and in the middle of the sea there was a (fresh) water pipe or spring symbolising the emerging creation about to begin. The myth continues by saying that Eridu and the Esagil temple (of Marduk) were constructed. The latter seems to be created or constructed by the “primordial” god Lugaldukuga—the “king of the holy mountain. The line in question may also be interpreted to mean that Lugaldukuga started residing in the holy mound. Lambert hypothesises that Lugaldukuga must be the name of the god Ea.38 However, the name might also indicate the known primordial deities considered to be the ancestors of Enlil.39 The following line then states that Babylon was built and the Esagil temple was created. Therefore, it is reasonable to consider the initial mention of Eridu and Abzu as the names actually denoting the city of Babylon and Marduk’s temple situated there. Creation of the World by Marduk, 1–14:40

 

én é kù-ga é digire-ne ki MIN nu-mu-un-dù /

bītu el-lim bīt ilanimeš ina aš-ri el-lim ul e-pu-uš

gi nu-è geš nu-dím / qa-nu-ú ul a-ṣi i-ṣi ul ba-ni

sig4 nu-šub gešù-šub nu-dím /

li-bit-ti ul na-da-at na-al-ban-ti ul ba-na-át

é nu-dù uru nu-dím /

bītu ul e-pu-uš ālu ul ba-ni

uru nu-dím á-dam nu-mu-un-gar-gar /

ālu ul e-pu-uš nam-maš-šu-ú ul šá-kin

nibruki nu-dù é-kur-ra nu-dím /

ni-ip-pú-ru ul e-pú-uš é-kur ul ba-ni

unuki nu-dù é-an-na nu-dím /

 ú-ruk ul e-pú-uš é-MIN ul ba-ni

abzu nu-dù eriduki nu-dím /

ap-su-ú ul e-pú-uš eri4 -du10 ul ba-ni

é digir-e-ne ki-tuš-bi nu-dím /

bītu el-lum bīt ilānimeš šu-bat-su-nu ul ep-še-et

[gú? ] kur-kur-ra-ke4 a-ab-ba /

nap-ḫar ma-ta-a-tú tam-tum-ma

[igi šà] ab-ba-ke4 šìta na-nam /

i-nu šá qí-rib tam-tim ra-ṭu-um-ma

[u4 -ba eridu]ki ba-dú é-sag-íl-la ba-dím / ina u4 -mi-šú eri4 -du10 e-pu-uš é-MIN ba-ni

[é-sag-í]l-šà-abzu-ke4 –e-dè d lugal-du6 –kù-ga mu-ni-in-ri-a /

é-MIN šà ina qí-rib ap-si-i d lugal-du6-kù-ga ir-mu-ú

[ká-digir-rak ] i ba-dù é-sag-íl-la šu-du7 /

 bābiluki e-pú-uš é-sag-íl šuk-lul

Translation:

A pure temple, a temple of the gods, had not been built in a pure place Reed was not growing, tree was not created

Brick was not laid (in the brick-mould), brick-mould was not created Temple was not built, city was not created

City was not created, settlements were not established

Nippur was not built, E-Kur was not created

Uruk was not built, E-Anna was not created

Abzu (temple) was not built, Eridu was not created

The pure temple of the gods, their dwelling place, was not created

All the lands were sea

A spring in the sea was a water-pipe

Then Eridu was built, Esagil was created Esagil, founded by Lugaldukuga in Abzu / Or:

Esagil where Lugaldukuga dwelled in the Abzu

Babylon was built, Esagil was completed

From Sumerian Cuneiform Dictionary Mugsar Online  mugsarsumerian.com/default.htm

UNU, unu6 [1511x] = banquet; dining hall; the most sacred part of a temple; seat, …… KU3, kug = (to be) pure; = metal, silver; (to be) bright, shiny …

From Elementary Sumerian Glossary https://www.bulgari-istoria-2010.com/…/Foxvog_Sumerian_…

.kù(g) (kug) to be sacred, holy; to sanctify kù(g) holy, sacred; shining, bright, clean, pure; kù(g) (kug) silver                                                                                                                  kú → gu7                                                                                                                                              gu7 (conventionally read kú) to eat; to have the use of; to consume (by some means)

From Sumerian Lexicon – IS MU https://is.muni.cz/el/1421/jaro2013/PAPVB_13/um/…/Halloran_version_3.pdf

kug, : n., silver; precious metal; money; noble

From Sibyls, Scriptures, and Scrolls: John Collins at Seventy  https://books.google.ro/books?isbn=9004324747

… this goddess was not in Ascalon but in the “holy city” of Hierapolis, also known to the … the sacredness of the goddess— means “pure, sacred” in Sumerian.

From https://eprints.soas.ac.uk/7498/1/ZabbanTL.pdf          %5BE- . . . ]-kuga the temple of Misaru; House which [is pure] among the mountains.

. 2. The only Sumerian temple name hitherto associated with ∞ala is é.dúr., probably in Adad’s southern cult-centre at Karkara (George 1993: 81 no. 232). Final matches our kù.ga, but dúr “seat” is an improbable source of puluhtu “fearsomeness”. Combining sub-columns (a) and (c) would produce a TN [é.ní.gal].kù.ga = bitu sa puluhtasu [ellet] “House whose fearsomeness is sacred”. In temple names the adjective kùg applies more commonly to concrete objects than to abstractions. Accordingly puluhtu here refers to the shrine’s numinous aura, which might certainly be considered “pure, sacred, holy”, and which, in a sense, was envisaged as a concrete attribute of divinity.

  1. The only Sumerian temple name previously paired with Misaruis ur.sag.sum.kud.da, a chamber of the temple of Assur at Assur (George 1993: 156 no. 1187). What remains of the first and third sub-columns in the present entry suggests the temple name é.hur.sag.kù.ga, which is otherwise borne by a temple of the goddess Gula at Babylon (George 1993: 101 no. 485).
  2. Perhaps [é.ní.gal.siki]l.la = bitu sa puluhtasu e[llet] “House whose fearsomeness (= radiance) is sacred”. The name of its resident is difficult to read on the photograph, and I cannot make up my mind whether it begins with mes, nun or sukkal. What deity could have intervened between Misaru and Isartu?

“               5. For Isartu “Fairness” as the wife of Adad’s son Misaru “Justice”, see An = Anum III 246–47 and Schwemer 2000: 67–68. No names are elsewhere known for sanctuaries or shrines of this goddess. The remnants of this one, si.sá = mustesiru “one who renders justice”, are clearly appropriate to her function as an arbiter of justice.

Note Very interesting, puluhu “fearsomeness” is reminding me of Proto-Nostratic root “pal(V)”

From (PDF) A Critical Review of Dolgopolsky’s Nostratic Dictionary

“In his effort to reconstruct the greatest number of forms possible for the Nostratic parent language, Dolgopolsky fails to identify underlying stems. For example, it is clearthat all of the entries given below are related (assuming here, for the sake of argument,that each is a valid etymology in its own right) — they are all derivatives of anunderlying                                                                                                                              *PaL[V] ‘to split, to divide’, to which various extensions have been added:                    1716. *palˉUk ü ‘axe, hammer’.                                                                                                 1717. *Pä[ļ]VkV ‘to split lengthwise, to divide’.                                                                           1718. *pVlhE[z] ‘to split’, ‘axe’.                                                                                                           1720. *PVLhE[z]V and/or *PVLhE[@|V ‘to split, to separate’.                                                   In this case, it is the underlying stem *PaL[ó] ‘to split, to divide’ that should have beenreconstructed as entry no. 1716 (or whatever the actual number turns out to be after all ofthe entries have been properly renumbered [note the comments below]). The remainingentries should then have been identified as derivatives of this stem and numbered 1716a,1716b, 1716c, and 1716d”

me:rom.PALOS:”big,broadsword,mythic sword/Excalibur”
https://www.icr.org/article/what-happened-days-peleg                                                           The word translated “divided” is used only a few times in the Old Testament, including a parallel passage in I Chronicles 1:19. Interestingly, the name Peleg is quite similar to the Hebrew word “divided” (Palag).

Essays on Ancient Anatolia in the Second Millennium B.C. https://books.google.ro/books?isbn=3447039671

… of the Nostratic theory where PIE *p[h]elek[h]u- ‘axe’ and Proto-Semitic *plk are … Assyrian pilakku, Sanskrit paraqu, Greek pelekus, designating a certain type …

Full text of “Die Bibel im lichte der keilschriftforschung [microform]”

Pelech ist das akkadische pilakku, kisor erweist sich bei genauerer Priifung als eine …… ‘Eber geht auf ‘abar = iiberschreiten und Peleg auf palag = teilen zuriick, …
http://www.funtrivia.com/askft/Question101698.html                                                                 In the Hebrew language the word ‘Peleg’ means a dividing by a “small channel of water” and is also root associated with the meaning of an earthquake. http://www.kjvbible.org/peleg.html                                                                           Peleg in Hebrew, means “Division,” but in Greek it means “Sea.” We get our present English word archipelago from this: archi-pelagos, the first sea. The Greeks called the Aegean Sea “The Archipelago,” the first sea, drawing the name from this man, Peleg.

Enki – Wikipedia https://ro.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enki

Cultul zeului Ea a fost recompus după modelul zeului sumerian Enki, dar uneori era confundat cu Nudimmud sau chiar cu Oannes.

 

 

ORION,Danubian Mother-Goddess sign, Labrys and Egyptian faith, possible connected?

April 22, 2018

BY FAR, SUN AND MOON WERE FIRST SECOND TO NONE, ASTRAL “THINGS” .                       ALL TIME IN THE FIRST PLACE !                                                                                        Folowing history and logics, hunting preceded agriculture by millenia.                             For the moment, don’t know what represented or what was ment in paleolithic or neolithic.Nor  when Orion was associated with “hunter” or hunting in different areas on Earth.                                                                                                                                             Image, from: earthsky.org/tonight/orion-the-hunter-your-ticket-to-the-milky-way.

From Orion Constellation Myths of Sumer, Babylon and Egypt http://www.astronomytrek.com/orion-constellation-myths-of-sumer-babylon-and-egypt/?fbclid=IwAR3jQg0NSuKUt76xkTs6f1iM2A2JZUySmRm7OSzYdYSV6yec7DR8YOJzQAU “Amongst Gilgamesh’s many great deeds was ordering the city walls of Uruk to be built, and wrestling with the wild man, Enkidu, representing the natural world, who was sent by the gods to humble him. Following a fierce battle, they became great friends, and enjoyed many adventures together, including killing Gugalanna, the Bull of Heaven, who had been unleashed by the supreme god Anu to kill Gilgamesh after an appeal by his daughter the goddess Inanna (Akkadian: Ishtar) whose affections Gilgamesh had spurned. The Sumerians subsequently honored the struggle by depicting Gilgamesh in the celestial heavens as the constellation of URU AN-NA (“the light of heaven”) fighting a bull, identified as the modern nearby constellation of Taurus. Amongst the attributes ascribed to the constellation of URU AN-NA was a bow in Gilgamesh’s left hand, an axe in his right, and a sword hanging from his belt.”

For the moment don’t know exacly how the shape was related to Mother-Goddess, axe or a bow.We’ll see.  Interesting the Orion shape is prezent in Sumerian proto-cuneiform signs library: https://cdli.ucla.edu/tools/SignLists/protocuneiform/archsigns.html

 GA’ARb1       GA’ARb2

and sign ZAG(a,b,c)ZAG_aZAG_bZAG_c

http://www.bulgari-istoria-2010.com/Rechnici/Sumerian_Dictionary.pdf

 ZAG(the shine of metals). From http://thegiannagiavelliblog.blogspot.ro/2014/12/

From http://indusscriptmore.blogspot.ro/2011/07/last-of-nine-stroke-indus-signs.html&nbsp;     In proto-cuneiform also, there is nothing quite like the Indus set of signs with the “table” on top. But there is an element something like the “asterisk” portion, ZAG~b, which eventually means “boundary, cusp; place; shrine; front.”  This sign begins with the same “X” with additional strokes.  But there is also a horizontal line at the top and another at the bottom, closing in these ends.  Rather than resembling an asterisk, then, ZAG looks like an hourglass (or a version of the Indus BOWTIE rotated 90 degrees).

Proto-cuneiform sign ZAG~b, “boundary; shrine; front, etc.”

From:Cuina Turcului-a rock shelter in the Iron gates gorges of the Danube

 They say that here are depicted the earth and heaven and the fact that some-how are related.

From CALENDAR HOUSE http://ancientlights.org/CalendarHouse/ch7.html&nbsp;                  “Below, we see how Labrys and the Sacral Knot at times became one sign, which Marinatos (2010: 122) reads as “life” because of its similarity to the Egyptian ankh.

   

                                                               “Labrys in the sky” might not surprise us, but why fused with a Sacral Knot?”

Image, from https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/306385580879448679/&nbsp; From Cyclades                                                                               me:”Mother Goddess sign” From Danubian area:                                                        http://danaela-foculsacru.blogspot.ro/p/firesc-ca-si-procesul-faceriibarbatului.html

Image result for neolitic cerul si pamantu

http://www.andrewcollins.com/page/articles/Orion.htm&nbsp;                                              Orion / The First Constellation – http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?298090-Science-The-Oldest-Lunar-Calendar-on-Earth
“Michael A. Rappenglück in Germany has published exceptional research in which he proposes that astronomer-priests in European Upper Paleolithic cultures could ’see’ constellations in the night sky. They recorded those observations in cave paintings, on calendars and in sculptural art. Furthermore says Dr. Rappenglück, the astronomer-shamans of Magdalenian Culture created a cosmology and the first zodiac known to history.
These ideas were first presented in 1966, then in Dr. Rappenglück’s doctoral thesis in 1968. Dr. Rappenglück was not the first scholar of Upper Paleolithic European cultures to propose that astronomer-priests had found important constellations. Proposals of this sort had been published since the early decades of the 20th century. It is time to honor these researchers who are little known to the general public: Marcel Boudouin (France), Henri Breuil (France, early work at Lascaux), Amandus Weiss (Switzerland), Heino Eelsalu (Estonia), and Marie König (Germany).

Orion from Bayer’s “Uranometria” – 1603
Print *- Mouser / United States Naval Observatory / Wikipedia
Orion is the oldest and therefore the first constellation discovered by the human mind. The evidence is a carving on mammoth tusk ivory found with Aurignacian culture artifacts in 1979 in a cave in the Ach Valley, Alb-Danube region of Germany. C-14 dating of adjacent ash deposits brackets the age of this small sliver of mammoth tusk to between 38,000 and 32,000 B.C. Upon it was carved a man-like figure with outstretched arms, a pose that is a match to the stars of Orion, The Hunter.

Dr. Rappenglück has also suggested that the notches on the backside of this Orion figure are a primitive pregnancy calendar for predicting when a woman will give birth.
The tablet is 38 x 14 mm and the notches carved into its edges tell us that this is its final size. The tablet is not a fragment broken off from something larger. The Orion figure has arms raised and legs spread apart. Orion appears to have a sword hanging between his legs, and his left leg is shorter than his right leg. The slim waist of this tiny figurine of Orion would correspond to the bright stars of his belt in the constellation. The sword in this ivory figurine is the sword in the constellation of Orion. More telling perhaps is that the left leg in the constellation of Orion The Hunter is shorter than the right leg. ”          (My note: there were no swords in paleolithic….)

From the same above site,

Orion in the Neolithic Age

“The Ach Valley plate seems to demonstrate that interest in the Orion constellation began at a very early stage in human development, and thus it probably continued to remain important in the ancient mindset through till Neolithic times. This is when our ancestors gave up being hunters and foragers and settled down to become farmers and pastoralists, sometime around ca. 9000 BC. For instance, in Egypt’s Western Desert, at the site of a dry lake known as Nabta Playa, an 7,000-year-old megalithic structure was built to incorporate very specific astronomical alignments featuring the Orion constellation.

During the epoch of its construction, ca. 4950 BC, an observer standing inside Nabta Playa’s main “calendar” circle of standing stones could have watched Orion’s “belt” stars rise in line with distantly placed stone slabs erected specifically for this purpose. Their presence argues strongly that the Neolithic farmers who built this astronomical observatory, next to what was once a savannah-like oasis, were acutely aware that over time stars change their rising and setting positions due to the effects of precession. This is the slow wobble of the earth’s axis across a cycle of approximately 26,000 years. It is a surmise confirmed in the knowledge that when one outlying stone ceased to line up with the rising of a star, another would take its place, indicating an unfaltering interest in the stars of Orion across a very long period indeed.”                                                      ————————————————————-Now, if Orion constellation was the first humans took notice (I am for above reasoning)                          So my above title of the post is supported/could be sustained.                   (when I saw first time, and somebody showed me some constellations not seen any bear nor virgo or other things told me; 2 constalations were outstanding and impressed me: Orion and Casiopeia)

Now regarding the Danubian Earth Bird-Mother Goddess, the steps could be as follows:                                                                                                                                                     -Prehistoric Danubians thought that at the origin of all forms of life there are eggs.        So the human-kind originated from an primordial egg,  made by an ancestor-mother bird-like.                                                                                                                                       Image, from http://rolfgross.dreamhosters.com/Modern-Man-2012/ProtoEurope/ProtoEurope.html “Goddess of the
Birds”

Picture, from http://www.arlea-art.com/suvenir_en.htm “Early Mycenaean idol”

                                                                                                                                              -They admired the liberty of flight of the birds.Admiring them did’nt know why they are making V-shape formations and where they go.As they saw birds high-up in the sky, the abode of this creature was also in the sky.                                                                                  – Probably they connected winged shape of Orion constellation with butterfly in Cyclades and their Bird Earth-Mother Goddess in Danubian area. From https://ro.pinterest.com/ifairywings/minoan/?lp=true  https://www.pinterest.com/ifairywings/minoan/&nbsp;                                                         “Minoan Goddess with buterfly wings”

Also they equated female silhuette with this shape also.                                                                                                             -No wonder if they sought that the very abode of their Goddess is in Orion. It seems that if or not a matriarhal society, female Goddess (before coming of I.Europeans) was before/prevailed on manly hunter (I.European patriarhal-type society), but we don’t know for sure.

Folowing, Vinca-Turdas-Cucuteni Goddess, https://www.pinterest.com/pin/346214290084412750/

Image result for vinca bird-goddess