Tartaria tablets

http://www.ancientpages.com/2018/02/17/7000-year-old-inscription-undeciphered-vinca-script-one-worlds-earliest-writing-systems-discovered/                                                                7,000-year-old ceramic tile covered with Vinca symbols was discovered in Bulgaria. Credit: Twitter                                                                                                                                       The Vinca symbols carry non-verbal information about calendar and ritual events.
The Vinca culture carved their symbols on wet clay using a sharp object. ===============================================

ON TWO SIGNS WICH OFFER CLUES ON PLECE OF ORIGIN, TYPE OF WRITING AND AGE.

“CAPITAL D-shaped” SIGN

Oldest (rather presumed than found) using of this sign is in the utmost earlier stage of sumwerian writing developement, on outer surface of economical clay tokens, as a jar/volumetric measure (Denise Schmand Besserat);time 3.500-3.300B.C. Two early sumerian signs are “like” capital D-s, but at the close distance are little different:

-one with a paralel stroke inside   https://cdli.ucla.edu/tools/signlists/protocuneiform/archsigns.html                                sign Garto be read “ninda” :” cereal,bread ration” and                                                       – sign for number 1:”DIS” ( and same shape but bigger for number 60)

But attention, only see from distance are D-like, because in realety the sign were made by imprinting  and not by scratching ! From  https://sites.utexas.edu/dsb/tokens/the-evolution-of-writing/  The Evolution of Writing DENISE SCMAND BESSERAT

(Fig. 2) Impressed tablet featuring an account of grain, from Godin Tepe, Iran (Courtesy Dr. T. Cuyler Young, Royal Ontario Museum, Toronto)                                                              me : upper row 10 10, down 1,1,1=number 23

  The sign D in scratched way was used after one thousend years in Egypt(~2.300B.C.?) as sign for “loaf of bread”                                                                                                                    Was used in Aegean writings Linear A si Linear B, but not as a logogram/syllabogram, but to represent fraction of weight unit mina or volume unit. (2.000 BC).                                After another time was used in archaic greek writing  (800-500 B.C.)                                          —————————————————————————-                                                                   The sign  with 3 horiz. bars was used by sumerians as proto-cuneiform sign KU but not this shape but “boxed shape” (from3.200 B.C.) Was used later in                                  Cretan hieroglyphic writing, (from 2.200 BC),                                                                       Linear A (from 2.100 B.C.),                                                                                                           Linear B (from 1.500 B.C.), later in                                                                                          Proto-Canaanite/Phoenician (1.500/1.100 B.C.) and                                                                        Paleo-hebrew (from 900 B.C.) writings,,                                                                                        Anatolian and archaic Greek (800-500 BC)

See No.45,  From https://www.researchgate.net/figure/The-Cretan-Hieroglyphic-table-of-signs-by-Evans-1909-232-3_fig1_273096050

The particular shape with slanted vertical bars as we have on the round tablet was used wide-used, only in phoenician, old hebrew, Crete and some places in Mediteranean Sea.                                                                                                                                                    From https://thegolfclub.info/70686f656e696369616e/phoenician-alphabet.html

The signs  shape evidence is imposing to select a time window when those shapes were simultaneous used anywhere in the world.                                                                                               It is true that this could happen even in Aegean writings, but the presence in 2 places left side and right side (one doubled DD!) of the round tablet of measurement units is allmost impossible to have an coherent interpretation or reading, beeing rathe uninteligible.

Could not be phoenician or old hebrew writing despite the perfect exact shape of H het sign used by them, for the simple reason that the D-shaped sign was not used by them.   ================================================================

THE EXPECTED TIME-WINDOW COULD BE RATHER AFTER 800 B.C.,USING ARCHAIC GREEK LETTERS (and of course especially in Crete) 

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Pity, due of early alphabets using in Greece, before come to be unified/standardised there was an epichoric phase (epichoros=local).                                                                                   So the sign D represented for some the sound/letter Rand in other place, for others letter/sound D !

From https://ro.pinterest.com/pin/431149364302140497/?lp=true

                                                                                                                                  So one must take both variants for the sign D wich are conducting to increasing the number of possible readings

1. H D                              Di  D  o o          sau    2. HD            Di  b  o  c

pentru 1 : *h₁ed/ EDe  DiDOU :”give eat !”

Ancient Greek Etymology From Proto-Indo-European *h₁ed–. Cognates include Sanskrit अत्ति (atti), Latin edō, Old Armenian ուտեմ (utem), Hittite 𒂊𒀉𒈪, Old Church Slavonic ꙗсти (jasti), and Old Englishetan (English eat).

or : “give now !“

Ede – New Testament Greek Lexicon – New … – Bible Study Toolshttps://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/greek/nas/ede.html                                             . … already 42, as soon as , now , soon* , this time  …

possible also “ede  DeDOU” :”give (goat)kid!”

for number 2: HERA/ HEROS (“lady/lord,defender“) in left and  DiBOS,divos Deibos (“GODS“) on the right side.                                                                                                                                  Note Included also an dorian/albanian(?) writing:

HeRa,Here               Su RROC                                                            rroc=rrok                                          TIME                 boundary, TERM          ===============================================

Note

• all 3 tablets are containing an hodge-podge of signs, wich not all, only part of them could be found in a single writing sistem
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• the closest writing to all signs is sumerian from the proto-cuneiform phase.   The fact that most/all of the signs could be found in exact or liittle distant shape in proto-cuneifor could be explained if the sumerian signs are at the origin (mother af all) signs, in different world writings.Otherwise only half of the Tartaria tablets signs has exact sumerian-signs shape.
• Yet cannot explain myself  how the “writer” knew so many signs, some old-ones, maybe from Anatolia and Levant (eg. Syria).                                                                       Capable to scratch signs, but not sure at all that had knowledge of their meaning or phonemic eqivalence.
• so as other scientists advanced possible some/most of the signs mimics other signs******
• the place of origin if not for the tablets but sure for the scribe wich made for his living trading, isAegean/Cyclades area or Crete.                                                                  An minoan or greek read CRETAN trader wich                                                                    – could be of sumerian ancestry or                                                                                          – had extended commercial ( metallurgy?) contacts with far distanced areas, (as Anatolia, Suria, even Sumer!?).
• Possible the very sustainers of the sumerian origin of early minoans, I am naming here Misters G.PAPAKITSOS and I.KENANIDIS missed by close the discovery of their life:                                                                                                            << the very physical, material evidence of  sumerian presence and cultural influence  in Aegean area, this evidence beeing Tartaria tablets ! >>*******             ==============================================================

• * The Position of the Tărtăria Tablets within the Southeast … – Jstor

  https://www.jstor.org/stable/504938

   

  See also S. Hood, “The Tartaria Tablets,” Scientific American. 230.5 (May 1968) …. theupper strata, most likely connected with the Baden-. Kostalac presence on …
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• 1.  

     ** http://arheologie.ulbsibiu.ro/publicatii/ats/ats8/merlini.pdf         

  2. “During the digging Vlassa claimed to have urgent tasks at home, then disappeared for a long time. Paul decided do not go on alone at digging Tărtăria and moved to an excavation at Pianul de Jos. Subsequently Vlassa came back to Tărtăria opening a new trench in another area of the settlement. After a month, he presented the tablets inserted inside the stratigraphic sequence already sorted out for the archaeological site of Răhău.
     Attila Laszló who excavated at Tărtăria with Vlassa as student, does not
     remember when, where and how Vlassa recovered the tablets.However, Vlassa told to Gh. Lazarovici about his discovery and Vlassa and László have drawn the profile in section H. Therefore, a third wave of scholars maintains that Vlassa ran across the tablets re-organizing the collection of artifacts found by Baroness Zsófia Torma in Near East and kept at Cluj museum”                            Note                                                                                                                                    It is impossible that the tablets were Zsofia Torma’s archaelogical finds, because she was the 1-st to sustain an sumerian origin for the signs on Vinca-Turdas finds, so could no reason in the world retain herself to show she’s astonishing and most valuable find in entire life !.

   

  1. Iuliu Adrian PAUL ENIGMA TĂBLIŢELOR DE LA TĂRTĂRIA SCHIŢĂ PRELIMINARĂ* http://bjastrasibiu.ro/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/130-iuliu.paul_.pdf                 
  2.  
  3. “Din păcate, semnele de întrebare în loc să scadă s-au înmulţit. Simpla parcurgere a bibliografiei existente ilustrează în bună parte şi motivele. De pildă, nimeni nu poate înţelege cum s-a putut săpa, preleva, transporta şi depozita un astfel de complex fără a sesiza prezenţa tăbliţelor, indiferent de starea lor de conservare şi, poate, tocmai datorită acestei „stări”.– De ce conţinutul acestui complex a fost împărţit în locuri diferite de
     depozitare, fără legături între ele şi fără a fi făcute însemnările de
     rigoare?
     – De ce şi pe ce criterii unele piese şi/sau materiale au fost publicate de
     autor, selectiv, iar altele niciodată?
     – De ce, în ciuda publicării unei bune părţi a descoperirii, în special a
     tăbliţelor, la un an după scoaterea la iveală a complexului (1962) şi a
     interesului enorm pe care l-a suscitat conţinutul acesteia s-a impus un
     „secret” total, parcă menit să dea uitării tot ceea ce era mai puţin
     convenabil, de neînţeles sau greu de explicat?
     Oricum, asupra materialelor (descoperirilor) de la Tărtăria s-a instaurat
     un fel de embargo. După tăbliţe s-au făcut copii care au fost expuse în muzeu şi puse la dispoziţia cercetătorilor. Tot cu titlu informativ suntem nevoiţi să
     menţionăm faptul că, în ciuda insistenţelor noastre repetate, nu am reuşit să
     vedem tăbliţele „în original” şi să le fotografiem decât în anul 1998, cu
     aprobarea specială a domnului director Ioan Pisso, fapt pentru care îi
     mulţumim călduros şi pe această cale.
  4. Este, cred, momentul să subliniem faptul că, deşi conform unei înţelegeri prealabile, girată de profesorul K. Horedt, făceam parte amândoi din colectivul de cercetare de la Tărtăria şi Pianu de Jos, colectiv care, sub acelaşi gir, urma să confrunte, pe viu, rezultatele obţinute, inclusiv stratigrafia celor două staţiuni, săpăturile începute împreună au fost întrerupte din motive
     personale, de sănătate cred, după aproximativ zece zile. Am aşteptat, împreună cu studentul L.Attila, întoarcerea lui N. Vlassa după care, tot conform înţelegerii iniţiale am deschis şantierul de la Pianu, urmând ca la întoarcerea sa, N. Vlassa să mă contacteze pentru a hotărî procedura
     de urmat. Nu am mai primit nici o veste până în anul următor (1962) când am aflat despre descoperire şi publicarea acesteia în Dacia (N. Vlassa….). Ar mai fi de adăugat şi faptul că Laszló Attila, în prezent prof. univ. dr. în arheologie la Universitatea „Al. I. Cuza” Iaşi, deşi a participat, de la începutul până la sfârşitul săpăturilor din 1961, nu a văzut – după propriile sale mărturii, repetate – nici momentul descoperirii şi nici vreuna din piesele complexului.
  5.  
  6. *** arheologie.ulbsibiu.ro/publicatii/ats/ats8/merlini.pdf The Tărtăria tablets as problematic archaeological artifacts. 7 Remains of … cylindrical-or-prism-shaped body, two Cycladic-like alabaster idols and a spondylus bracelet.
   
   
  The Tartaria Tablets: a Chronological Issue | Antiquity | Cambridge Core

  https://www.cambridge.org/core/…/article/…/D381A9172BE3C748247F680CBF9AF611

  by E Neustupný – ‎

  “In this article Dr Evžzen Neustupný, of the Archaeological Institute of the Czechoslovak Academy of Sciences, emphasizes the problematical nature of the find. Vlassa had already shown that some layers of the Tartaria tell were mixed—and discusses the chronological issues involved. The attention of readers is also drawn to the note by Dr D. Berciu in his Romania (London, 1967, 161), and to Dr Quitta’s comments (antiquity, 1967, 266).”

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• https://www.academia.edu/…/Chapter_3_Existence_of_an_archaic_script_in_Southeas&#8230;Chapter 3 “Existence of an archaic script in Southeastern Europe: A …                             In a subsequent paper he dated the artifacts around 2600–2400 BC (Vlassa 1970: 30).
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• ****
  

  О КВАЗИШУМЕРСКИХ ТАБЛИЧКАХ ТЭРТЭРИИ ВАЙМАН А.А. Археологические вести. Спб, 1994. Вып. 3. Содержание. – ИИМК РАН http://www.archeo.ru › … › Археологические вести › Contents of issues

  “Two other tablets (figs.2,3) carry signs, many of which, according to Vlassa, are either identical with, or very similar to, those inscribed on the tablets from Uruk IV (early Proto-Sumerian script). The sensational find has gained a wide publicity. The most significant paper that has appeared so far is that by А.Falkenstein who has basically supported Vlassa’s conclusions. Falkenstein has compared the Tàrtâria tablets with those from layer III in Uruk and Jemdet-nasr (late proto-Sumerian script) using a number of criteria, such as clay, format, stylus, structure of the text, signs. He has proved beyond doubt that the script of the Tàrtâria tablets had been directly influenced by the proto-Sumerian script. “

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• *****Untitled arheologie.ulbsibiu.ro/publicatii/ats/ats8/merlini.pdf                                                   The Tărtăria tablets as problematic archaeological artifacts ….. “the date of Uruk-Warka IV and Jemdet Nasr… seems lately to be the general … 1974/5: 27) and more precisely between 2900 and 2800 BC (Makkay 1973: 1).

Acta Terrae Septemcastrensis https://books.google.ro/books?id=q-pjwVI1Vz0C                 For a number of scholars the dating of the tablet to, a late period was … history and the Tartaria tablets as Cotofeni finds (G.I. Georgiev and V.I. Georgiev 1969).

Iuliu Adrian PAUL ENIGMA TĂBLIŢELOR DE LA TĂRTĂRIA SCHIŢĂ PRELIMINARĂ* http://bjastrasibiu.ro/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/130-iuliu.paul_.pdf

“Astfel, E. Neustupny (E. Neustupny, 1968, p. 32-35), referindu-se la
tăbliţele de la Tărtăria, subliniază că, după părerea sa, nu există decât două
posibilităţi: ori datele C14 sunt fundamental greşite, ori tăbliţele nu aparţin
contextului arheologic de care au fost legate de descoperitor, adică stratului
Vinča-Turdaş de la Tărtăria. În argumentaţia sa, el înclină spre cea de-a doua
posibilitate, bazată, printre altele, pe faptul că la Simpozionul Internaţional
privind cultura Lengyel, ţinut la Nitra (Slovacia) în 1967, s-a precizat că, la
nivelul tăbliţelor, s-a descoperit şi o ancoră de lut de tip caracteristic culturii
Coţofeni şi bronzului egeean timpuriu.“

******The Lost Civilizations of the Stone Age https://books.google.ro/books?isbn=0684862700 Richard Rudgley –                                                                                             But the string-holes on two of the Tartaria tablets appear to be a feature without … that the tablets represented a garbled and ‘senseless’ mimicry of Near Eastern ...

of the Tărtăria tablets – Dacia. Revue d’archéologie et d’histoire ancienne http://www.daciajournal.ro/pdf/dacia2016/18.pdf                                                             Thoughts about a “reconsideration” of the Tărtăria tablets . …… an object as faithfully similar as possible to the Mesopotamian model which he wanted to imitate,.

the tartaria tablets – jstor https://www.jstor.org/stable/pdf/24926226.pdf by MSF Hood –SUMERIAN WRITING of the period around 3000 B.C. covers a clay tablet found at Jemdet. NasI’ in Mesopotamia. … on tablets found at Tartaria in Romania (see illustration on opposite page). ….. prehendingimitation of more civilized peoples‘ …

Attention, the folowing article is referring to Vinca-Turdas culture; the tablets are much newer !   M. Masson. Interaction of cultures and cultural integration http://www.archeo.ru/izdaniya-1/archaeological-news/annotations-of-issues/arheologicheskie-vesti.-spb-1994.-vyp.-3.-annotacii

• “An appreciable shift occurred in the early agricultural period, when societies which had attained similar levels of cultural and intellectual development displayed considerable receptivity to integrational processes. Yet here as well the “rejection” is evident. If the decoding of the famous tablets from the early agricultural site of Tartaria, Romania, proposed by A. A. Weiman, one of the world’s most authoritative experts in Proto-Sumerian texts (see this issue), is correct, a highly peculiar picture emerges. In the depth of the early agricultural Balkan area with its remarkable achievements in the artistic and intellectual domains a stable complex is found which is related to the temple structures of the Sumerian civilization. No matter whether the kulturtrager from Uruk had actually built their temple somewhere in the vicinity or whether we have before us a unique case of import having no pragmatic value, it is absolutely clear that these hallmarks of urban civilization had in no way been integrated into the system of early agricultural communities, which, in my opinion, had achieved the initial stage of the early complex society.                                                                                             Numerous and diverse signs found on the artefacts from the early agricultural Balkan sites are doubtless related to some symbolic and magic system, but do not represent a system of writing, which is a phenomenon different, in quality.              So the Proto-Sumerian prototype did not in any way affect the local society, which was probably content with the available systems of storage and transmission of information (probably the oral and the artistic ones).”
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• TARTARIA AND THE SACRED TABLETS.pdf | Pottery | Archaeology https://www.scribd.com/document/…/TARTARIA-AND-THE-SACRED-TABLETS-pdf