TARTARIA SQUARED TABLET WITH HOLE/19 Linear A/B approach

TARTARIA SQUARED TABLET WITH HOLE/2018 Linear A/B approach

THE PURPOSE OF THIS PAGE IS TO TEST IN WICH MEASURE THE SIGNS FIT AEGEAN-ONES.                                                                                                                                                  OTHERWISE OTHER SCIENTISTS AGREE (ME ALSO) THAT THOSE 3 TARTARIA TABLETS ARE MUCH CLOSE TO SUMERIAN PRE-CUNEIFORM WRITING.

 Image from ESCRITURA DE TARTARIA http://www.proel.org/index.php?pagina=alfabetos/tartaria

tartaria1

We have upper-left side, those D-s (3 signs)

(In close shape, but by imprinting, sumerians used to express numbers.

Were found in economic transactions.Signs are not imprinted as in sumerian (cuneus cuneiform) technique with the opposite edge of sharpened-one edge of stylus, so I wonder if  the writer was a native sumerian.

From https://www.voceavalcii.ro/39794-decrypting-of-tartaria-inscription-part-2-rectangular-amulet.html

Here maybe No.2, where the indication line is black.

See A Comparative Linguistic Study about the Sumerian Influence on the … https://www.researchgate.net/…/273885539_A_Comparative_Linguistic_Study_about_t…A Comparative Linguistic Study about the Sumerian Influence on the Creation of the Aegean Scripts.

Minoan Sumerian | Giannhs Kenanidhs – Academia.edu http://www.academia.edu/11423494/Minoan_Sumerian

Aegean scripts used this sign only as volume units, but HORIZONTALY ! Image from RICHARD VALLANCE Blog : https://linearbknossosmycenae.files.wordpress.com

  1. Close to these signs, downward, we have sign No.1 as ear of cereal
  2. Usually associated with agriculural products as barley:                                             Image,from http://www.mesopotamia.co.uk/writing/story/page06.html
  3.                                                                                  From http://people.ku.edu/~jyounger/LinearA/

LINEAR A *04 (TE), common

In linear B,

Linear B, Cretan“TE” “Wheat

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRykURVevP7C91htJQXSWtUoIKlv_VE7Zk8RacOILleQApR07vw

Note that this sign rather pertain to proto-writing. Cause in linear B we have signs for specific kind of grains (wheat visa barley):

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRHPdQSYyE8qr4n115PLPH_UBTyeNB9XKrQDADDWG3bdzC2-UEQZQ

Together those 2 signs,could be interpreted as                                                                                        “3 /volume measures of some sort of grain”(gr.sitos) ?”        =====================================================

Next downward,this Y-shaped sign (! drawn separately in a box !)will see what could be.

  1. (sign No.3)

Table from https://www.researchgate.net/figure/The-Cretan-Hieroglyphic-table-of-signs-as-suggested-in-the-inscriptions-corpus-Olivier_fig3_273096050

the-cretan-hieroglyphic-table-of-signs-as-suggested-in-the-inscriptions-corpus-olivier No.019 ;024 ?                                                                                                                                                        Y-sign= linear B= “SA?

From http://www.ancientscripts.com/lineara.html “Once again applying Linear B reading to the previous Linear A texts, we see the sign sequence ja-sa-sa-ra-me. This sequence is very interesting because it appears very often in many other such votive inscriptions in slightly different variants.

lineara_ladle

FINAL READING: “SA”                                                                                                                            From   http://people.ku.edu/~jyounger/LinearA/                                                                      *31, SA, perhaps a logogram for *SA-SA-ME?;

From http://people.ku.edu/~jyounger/LinearA/                                                                                      JOHN JOUNGER SA (HT 114b.1) or SI (HT 30.1) = paid?

========================================================                                     Next, to the right, vertical separation line !

 

Next,downward, folow a sign No.4

wich ressemble violin,labrys?/ 2 merged lozenges ?;

 b4dd6746fe84b265e714daef471f2b89

Note: the sign  is repeated as the last sign on the tablet

Close to the cretan hierogliphic sign 042 (Labrys) <see table above>

https://linearbknossosmycenae.wordpress.com/tag/syllabic-scripts/page/19/?iframe=true&preview=true%2Ffeed%2F

https://enijote.wordpress.com/2017/11/25/double-axes-and-the-limits-of-knowledge/

Not much to see.  But here’s its Linear A counterpart:

The sine qua non is the interpretation of labyrinth as “Place of the Double Axes,

The Cretan Hieroglyphic evidence is even more explicit:

There are saying that the sign is at the origin of “A”:

https://linearbknossosmycenae.wordpress.com/tag/syllabic-scripts/page/19/?iframe=true&preview=true%2Ffeed%2F

 

Essays on Ancient Anatolia in the Second Millennium B.C.

https://books.google.ro/books?isbn=3447039671

Prince Mikasa no Miya Takahito (son of Taishō, Emperor of Japan) – 1998 – ‎Civilization, Assyro-Babylonian

reconstructed an IE *peleku14 of sacred use that would go back to a pre-IE digging implement of the Mesolithic of NW Europe and pre-Mesolithic … Mycenaean dapur-, Hittite tabarna/tla- barna/labarna(s) from a Sumerian balag, Assyrian pilakku, Sanskrit paraqu, Greek pelekus, designating a certain type of axe.

 

Linear B :  DA-PU ? QA-YO ?

DA-PU ? QA-YO? Labrys?

see down later my interpretation for DA-PU-RI-TO-YO & QAYO.

 

Now, don’t believe it, in Crete were found inscribed pebbles containing same sign as in our (Y,X) tablet !!! :

SA+ labrys(A)?

https://linearbknossosmycenae.com/tag/ax/

As illustrated above, early Minoan hieroglyphic roundels and seals may lend some insight into the later development of the Linear A syllabary. Notice that the the hieroglyphic for an axe or labrys looks remarkably like the Linear A and Linear B syllabogram for A, while the Y shaped hieroglyphic, whatever it is supposed to represent (and no one knows what), is similar to the Linear A syllabogram for SA. So it is conceivable, however remotely, that this hieroglyphic seal may actually read asa or saa, whichever way you read it (not that we have any idea what that is supposed to mean).Then we have the hieroglyphic marked with an asterisk (*). This looks very much like a vase, amphora or flask to hold wine, water or possibly even olive oil. There is another one which looks like a fish. That should not be too surprising, given that the ideogram for fish does appear on at least one extant Linear A fragment from Phaistos, as we have witnessed in a recent previous post. Finally, on the bottom line, the seal marked (f) bears a hieroglyphic which looks like a bat, and this in turn may very well be the antecedent to the Linear A syllabogram MA. But this hieroglyphic is not that of a bat, but rather of a cat, which we can see from the beautiful seal on the top left of the illustration. This is substantiated by the some of the variations in the scribal hands for Linear A MA, which indeed look like the visage of a cat, as we see here:

My.note.Pity,from the vase fish bat cat all is turning to some kind of dissaray

 

 

Minoan Asasarame is not a deity??

http://paleoglot.blogspot.ro/2011/07/minoan-asasarame-is-not-deity.html

Asasarama is *not* Minoan

Given the formulation of the original hypothesis, Bayndor errs some more when he states: “Isḫassara- is a compound stem, made up from isḫa- = ‘lord’ and the feminizing suffix sara-, thus meaning ‘lady‘. None of its parts have a particularly good Indo-European etymology.” Yet the source of -sara- is already commonly known to be from Proto-Indo-European *-s(o)r-, a suffix present also in Celtic and Indo-Iranian! Therefore Asasarama *can only be* from an Anatolian Indo-European language like Hittite. Even Judith Weingarten, who we may also assume studies Minoan rather extensively, falls into the same false reasoning in her comment further below: “So, I’ll stick with Isḫa-ssara as the most likely parallel, also because it seems non-Indo-European in origin.” Sigh.



There’s a difference between the origins of isḫa- and of isḫassara-

As I said above, isḫassara- ‘lady’ is a transparently Anatolian formation so any talk of its possible Minoan origins is off to left field. Nonetheless it’s true that the *root* of this Hittite word, isḫa- ‘lord’, may very likely come from Hattic asḫaf ‘lord, god’ (= asḫapasḫaw) as per Jaan Puhvel in his Hittite dictionary. This particular non-IE etymology can have little to do with the source of Minoan Asasarama though and we must endeavor to keep these irrelevant side-facts separated in intelligent discussion on the matter.

 

From; Glyph-Breaker https://books.google.ro/books?isbn=0387982418

Steven R. Fischer The -mel-ma of a-sa-sa-ra-me /ja-sa-sarama (-na) probably represents an -m ending whose graphic reproduction was optional for the Minoan scribe. … The form ja-sa-sa-ra suggests an initial h- sound whose graphic reproduction was similarly optional: In Mycenaean Greek Linear B, as John Chadwick wrote back in the …

Divine Images and Human Imaginations in Ancient Greece and Rome

https://books.google.ro/books?isbn=9047441656

2009 – ‎Social Science

In the singular case of a votive inscription on the preserved lower part of a small clay figurine from Poros we can read RI-QE-TI-A-SASARA-s, probably revealing the often mentioned term A-SASARA as the name of a goddess.” Linear A inscriptions from Palaikastro and Youchtas, read as A-DI-KI-TE-TE-| and JA-DI-KI-TU .

 

ANISTORITON Journal of History, Archaeology, ArtHistory: Viewpoints

http://www.anistor.gr/english/enback/v053.htm

Besides figuring out this divine title, he also partially translated the libation table inscription KN Za 10: Ta-nu-a-ti ja-sa-sarama / na da-wa-a- du-wa-na i-ja … It is also possible to tell approximately what should be on many tablets from context – like commodity signs that are shared with Linear B. One example of these is the …

 

http://www.anistor.gr/english/enback/v053.htm

R Za1 (on a libation table):

Ta-na-su te-ke Se-to-i-ja A-sa-sa-ra-me

Tanasu established (cf. Greek theke) (this table) at Setoia (Sitia), o my Lady.

 

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSu7iVK2JzcX6yzNXkJJ5dohmPTf0-Th_8ei_9RQb1luRNUn5QO

As hieroglyphic cretan bouth signs could pe interpreted as:

C. Eu propun,pentru          AASA,ASA,

 

Proto-Indo-European Roots – The Indo-European Database

https://tied.verbix.com/project/phonetics/word23.html

  1. Palaic ash- (to be), Hieroglyphic Hittite asa,sa (to be), Nesian Hittite es-, Luwian as-

Reconstruction:Proto-Indo-European/h₂eHs- – Wiktionary

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Indo-European/h₂eHs-

  1. *h₂eHs-eh₁-(ye)- (stative). Italic: *āzēō (“to be dry”). Latin: āreō · *h₂s-tḗr (“star”); *h₂eHs-h₂- (“hearth,fireplace”). Anatolian: Hittite: [script needed] c (ḫāššā-, “fireplace, hearth”); Lycian: [script needed] c (xahadi-, “altar”). Italic: *āzā (“altar”). Old Latin: asa.Latin: āra. Oscan: aasa- (“altar”)

 

AASA,ASA: “ALTAR” !

 

So even asasarame could be the altar of sasara,asara=ishtar
Minoan Asasarame is not a deity??
http://paleoglot.blogspot.ro/2011/07/minoan-asasarame-is-not-deity.html

Asasarama is *not* Minoan

Given the formulation of the original hypothesis, Bayndor errs some more when he states: “Isḫassara- is a compound stem, made up from isḫa- = ‘lord’ and the feminizing suffix -sara-, thus meaning ‘lady’. None of its parts have a particularly good Indo-European etymology.” Yet the source of -sara- is already commonly known to be from Proto-Indo-European *-s(o)r-, a suffix present also in Celtic and Indo-Iranian! Therefore Asasarama *can only be* from an Anatolian Indo-European language like Hittite. Even Judith Weingarten, who we may also assume studies Minoan rather extensively, falls into the same false reasoning in her comment further below: “So, I’ll stick with Isḫa-ssara as the most likely parallel, also because it seems non-Indo-European in origin.” Sigh.



There’s a difference between the origins of isḫa- and of isḫassara-

As I said above, isḫassara- ‘lady’ is a transparently Anatolian formation so any talk of its possible Minoan origins is off to left field. Nonetheless it’s true that the *root* of this Hittite word, isḫa- ‘lord’, may very likely come from Hattic asḫaf ‘lord, god’ (= asḫapasḫaw) as per Jaan Puhvel in his Hittite dictionary. This particular non-IE etymology can have little to do with the source of Minoan Asasarama though and we must endeavor to keep these irrelevant side-facts separated in intelligent discussion on the matter.

Y + A + *(next)

AASA/ASA + *

Shrine,ALTAR of GOD(ess) ? YA-SA-SA-RA ?

 

 

 

Next, an insect/miriapod-like sign !?! is found in more and less simylar shape all over:

———————————————————

As a refference,

Sumerian “DINGIR”/God/sky

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQGzbr1a5NBe7hywD1BcL8mbfvfJB7YOVL7ZrnTmJZevVbLcIOUTw

And sum.AN:”God,Heaven”

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTmkD1S7pLtQ6Oj_gUMYBNg3gnnMIrZAuImmjhaMnqFSnZXp8PX

But! If URUK “dingir” has 11 spikes our sign have 12 (limbs)

Note that is not in a shape of wheat-ear or plant but is in a star-like shape.The difference in “spikes” number is not much problematic in my opinion.So why not,or possible to be something star-like i.e. “a GOD”?

 

But much,much close,(if rotated 90deg)

 (count the number of lines! totaly 12 in sumerian sign as in our)

——————————————————————

http://www.namuseum.gr/collections/prehistorical/mycenian/mycenian13-en.html

KE”? (2-nd in the first row)

Linear B “KE-MA”?

 

Next, donkey head-like picture or sign shape.

 

LINEAR B “MA

Note the scribal hand sign Ma with big ears as in our tablet!

My proposal is hyeroglyph,sign for God/Goddess + MA

Eg.

 

Like: ja-sa-sara  ma

From; Glyph-Breaker – Page 130 – Google Books Result

https://books.google.ro/books?isbn=0387982418

Steven R. Fischer – 1997 – ‎Social Science

The -mel-ma of a-sa-sa-ra-me /ja-sa-sarama (-na) probably represents an -m ending whose graphic reproduction was optional for the Minoan scribe. … The form ja-sa-sa-ra suggests an initial h- sound whose graphic reproduction was similarly optional: In Mycenaean Greek Linear B, as John Chadwick wrote back in the …

Divine Images and Human Imaginations in Ancient Greece and Rome

https://books.google.ro/books?isbn=9047441656

2009 – ‎Social Science

In the singular case of a votive inscription on the preserved lower part of a small clay figurine from Poros we can read RI-QE-TI-A-SASARA-s, probably revealing the often mentioned term A-SASARA as the name of a goddess.” Linear A inscriptions from Palaikastro and Youchtas, read as A-DI-KI-TE-TE-| and JA-DI-KI-TU .

 

From ANISTORITON Journal of History, Archaeology, ArtHistory: Viewpoints

http://www.anistor.gr/english/enback/v053.htm

Besides figuring out this divine title, he also partially translated the libation table inscription KN Za 10: Ta-nu-a-ti ja-sa-sarama / na da-wa-a- du-wa-na i-ja … It is also possible to tell approximately what should be on many tablets from context – like commodity signs that are shared with Linear B. One example of these is the …

 

http://www.anistor.gr/english/enback/v053.htm

R Za1 (on a libation table):

Ta-na-su te-ke Se-to-i-ja A-sa-sa-ra-me

Tanasu established (cf. Greek theke) (this table) at Setoia (Sitia), o my Lady.

So could be:

SA + A +*+ MA

ASA * MA

ALTAR ASASARA MA

MY LADY-GODDESS ALTAR ?

 

ASA SARA MA

SARA,princess/Lady

 

MY Princess/Lady(Goddess!)

 

Note

From http://paleoglot.blogspot.ro/2011/07/minoan-asasarame-is-not-deity.html

Asasarama is *not* Minoan

isḫassara- ‘lady’ is a transparently Anatolian formation so any talk of its possible Minoan origins is off to left field. Nonetheless it’s true that the *root* of this Hittite word, isḫa- ‘lord’, may very likely come from Hattic asḫaf ‘lord, god’ (= asḫapasḫaw)

 

ja-sa could be equivalent of ISHA !?

 

From Hittite Etymological Dictionary https://books.google.ro/books?isbn=902793049X Jaan Puhvel 

Hitt. isha-. There remains an inner-Anatolian approach to isha-. Apart from a very doubtful Lyd. isa– (Gusmani, Lyd. Wb. 138, Die Sprache 17:6 [1971], Journal of the Royal Asiatic Society 1975:138), the ..collective aproach to Gods of both sexes

 ————————————————

Second sign from the end backward,right edge,upper sign.Sincerely at this sign I run out of… resources.

it is composed of   lozenge-like

Az a whole this sign could be a goat head wich is right-heading ??

http://www.unm.edu/~blanter/Linear_B_Glossary.pdf

Mycenaean AI-ZA ?

 

For the shepperd croocked rod

Cretan  O/U

With the sign underside A

“AI-ZA-A”, “AI-ZA-Ai”?

 

To the Land of Dreams: Linear B Lexicon

tothelandofdreams.blogspot.com/2016/01/linear-b-lexicon.html

ai-to, 螒委胃蠅谓, Aithon, personal name.聽ai-wa-ja, 螒喂F伪委伪 (>螒委伪), Aifaia (>Aia), ethnic/place name.聽ai-wa-ta, 螒喂F维蟿伪蟼, Aifatas, personal name.聽ai-wo-ro/ a-wo-ro, 螒委F慰位慰蟼, Aivolos, personal/animal name (= ‘nibble’).聽aiza, 伪委味伪 (>伪委纬伪),聽aiza聽(>aiga),聽goat.聽aiza. Aizai (>Aigai ,place name)

The Linear B Decipherment Controversy Re-Examined

https://books.google.ro/books?isbn=0873950143

Saul Levin – 1964 – ‎Inscriptions, Linear B.

… close to the central city of Knosos nearly a thousand years earlier — yet the AI ~ A alternation gives an idea of what may have happened in the Linear B language to the nominative plural ending which Greek preserves as the diphthong -01. But whatever may be the merit of our subtle hypothesis to clarify the phenomena, ..

 

A horizontal box is ideogram for “cloth/textiles”

Noo !

 

From History of Civilizations of Central Asia

https://books.google.ro/books?isbn=812081407X

Ahmad Hasan Dani, Vadim Mikhai lovich Masson –

It seems that some important terms were borrowed by the Daco-Mysians, too, for example, DM az– ‘goat’ (as against aiz– ‘goat‘),聽…

 

So rather AZ+A = AZA or AIZ+A= AIZA/AIZAI

 

AIGAI <> AEGEANS !?

————————– NO!——————————-

See the paper: BUCRANIUM SYMBOL AND SIGN

 

]Cornelia-Magda Lazarovici, Gheorghe Corneliu … – Arheovest

arheovest.com/simpozion/arheovest3/03.pdf

 

In Vinca-Turdas culture were found hundreds of artefacts of different kinds with the shape of a bucranium (bull-head). Or shape intricated or depicted in a way or another in them.

 

Now I change my mind.The horned-head as poor as is depicted could be with equal chances that of a bull.Especially cause of the sturdy/massif head.

But I explain why radher is bull.

Cause the Bull was related to Gods/SUN and rullers (MinoTAUR).

As in ancient East the bull was associated with the Sun.

And downward we have the very icon of  ruller Minos the DOUBLE-AX shape,

By sumerians bull head associated with double ax-shape was

Sign AMAR sign AB

Meaning         Bull-calf   House/abode

Wich by them was       NERGAL      a pair of the Sun

(the fierry hottes Sun of the mid-dai time, later an underwold&death GOD(dess)

 

So we have the heavenly Bull=SUN asocieted with his GOD/royal sign LABRYS

As Zeus Labraundos,Keraunos was depicted with the axe in his hand.

In this case nothing is necessary to be added and those signs don’t need to be much comented/translated or interpreted

 

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