Unexpected outcome (in romanian:”unde dai, si unde crapa!”)


ACKNOWLEDGEMENT                                                                                                                               I do not claim for a true nor an accurate reading, I am making only testings, showing samples for possible interpretations of the signs on the round Tartaria tablet. In romanian, “sample” is: “proba, exemplu, sondare”

Today I spent some hours searching for words in old languages begining with geminate D, “DD” ( in order  to solve and escape the weird, headaching, impossible sequence on the round tablet “D D o o/c” ).                                                                                                                      note:                                                                                                                                                         – The words with initial geminate consonants are extremely rare in I.E. languages   – As a result, we have a word with a geminate inside, word begining with the equivalent of the sign +++++ (Se,Su,Xi,Z. Zu..)                                                                                                                  – We do not know for sure if “D signs” are for d or for r, cause in archaic greek alphabets the sign was used as d in one place and as r in another !                                                                 – Carian, lycian and other Anatolian writings,  had greek-derived alphabets and signs/letters had different phonetic values as greek-ones ! From http://www.palaeolexicon.com/Carian                        Image result for lycian alphabet

 Picture, from    http://aplaceofbrightness.blogspot.com/2008/11/moonlight-in-romania-tartaria-tablets_21.html                                                                                                                                       ———————————————

So I preffered to search in old languages.                                                                                        So for low chances hipothesys of a word begining with geminate, and supposing to be written with archaic greek letters. I found lycian Ddeu and Ddewe.                                         * The lycian language pertain to Anatolian branch of I.European family. wich  left earlier the  I.E. trunk/family. Lycians, “Lukka” (named by themselves  Trm̃mis, “trmily”) are supposed ancestors of Latins, see Aeneas story, Romanians included Lycaones/wolf people. The Lycian language has ancient characteristics, also an weird sounding and awkard language. Adding the scarcity of written material, the result is that there are only a few wich had the expertise.But even these few have no same opinions regarding the particular aspects, as in the folowing lines is true *

From A Linguistic Happening in Memory of Ben Schwartz: Studies in … Yl Arbeitman, Yoël L. Arbeitman · 1988 · Language Arts & Disciplines Studies in Anatolian, Italic, and Other Indo- European Languages Yl Arbeitman, Yoël L. Arbeitman.                                             <<[4] mere … [9] ddewe (ou ddeu) : d’ après le contexte et l’ adjectif ddewezi >>

From WordGumbo Indo-European Comparative Indo-European – bulgari-istoria Ivanov V. Common Indo-European, Proto- Slavic and Anatolian Language Systems. Moscow.       << 3. ….. ddewe- (a city) dewi- B >>

From P. Serafimov – Etymological Analysis Of Thracian Toponyms And Hydronyms.pdf  “In my opinion Tabaya corresponds to Thracian DABA, DEVA, DAVA – gathering, camp, fortress, and of course to Modern Slavic tabor – camp (Sl, Blg, Cz). In Asia Minor Lycians used the word ddewe for a settlement, village and krte – city, enwalled place [7]”

My note:                                                                                                                                                   – for the moment I agree with settlement, village. This word could be a gramatical form of thracian: “Daua, Deba, Dewa?,Deva, Diza..”                                                                                    – But remember there is no consensus on meaning (eg. “city”) !

From (PDF) The Lycian ḫi-conjugation revisited. Arbeitstagung der … https://www.academia.edu › The_Lycian_ḫi-conjugation_revisited._Arbeitsta…                    Sep 23, 2015 – The inherited ḫi-conjugation in Lycian 2.1 The Lycian ḫi-verbs: the 3sg presents …. (2004 s.v.), denominative *-ye/o-verb to ddewe– ‘give, dedicate’ (?). ….. Neumann 2007) = Lyc. xi- Iterative Pret3Sg xi[st]te 55,6 ‘was offering …

———————————————————–                                                                                        Also as word-begining with geminate, I found:                                                                                 From https://books.google.ro › books
The Neapolitan Canzone in the Early Nineteenth Century as …
Pasquale Scialò, Francesca Seller, Anthony R. DelDonna · 2015 · Music
<< Furthermore, the word “dio” is pronounced [ ddìo]; “dio” also doubles in Neapolitan. … something significant while avoiding mention of the name of God), “Ddio” (God  >>  Signs DD o o/D D o u > reading> DDio, DDeu  ?                                                                               Note In a cultural movement named “Scoala ardeleana” in Romania (in order to reconstitute the original latin writing !?!),was used in writing DDeu for God/Dumnezeu                                                                                                                                                          From Transilvania – Feder.. – UAIC                                                                                                << pentru a reapuca opulu impacatiunii cu regatulu Ungariei , si a- lu duce cu voi’a lui Ddiou la o deslegarea folositoria si dorita de ambe partile >>                                              ——————————————————                                                                                                    On the greek side, I found also: From     The Archaic Cretan Greek Alphabet http://www.carolandray.plus.com/Eteocretan/archaic_alpha.html

<< zai (zeta): the sound denoted by this symbol seems to have varied in different Greek dialects. Some instances of classical ζ derive from earlier /sd/, e.g. ἵζω (hizo) “I seat” ← *si-sd-ō (cf. Latin: sīdō). The majority of cases, however, derive from a earlier */dj/, */gj/ suggesting that sound denoted by ‘z’ in transcriptions of Mycenaean Linear B was /dj/ or an affricate such as [ʤ] or [ʣ]. It would seem, however, that in the archaic and classical periods, by a process of assimilation or metathesis, the sound varied in the dialects between [dd], [zd] and [zz] with the latter becoming the norm by the Hellenistic period and giving way eventually to the modern Greek [z]. In Cretan Greek [dd] was the norm and the spelling δδ is also found. But there appears to have been a tendency in Crete to devoice this combination as ττ is also found for standard Greek ζ; indeed, we also occassionally find actual /tt/ spelled ζ. >>

My note:                                                                                                                                                   even if dd was found in the middle of words, why not :                                                                 From earlier PIE Dju > cretan Zu/Zou ( attested “Zou to lako” (for Zeus)!) or even unattested: DDou !?

From The Textualization of the Greek Alphabet Roger D. Woodard · 2014 · Foreign Language Study … λύγος (lugos), a term denoting ‘withe’, descended from a Proto-Indo-European root meaning ‘to … it is to the ‘Pelasgian Zeus of Dodona’ (Ζεῦ Δωδωναῖε Πελασγικέ [Zdeu

From On Germanic Linguistics: Issues and Methods https://books.google.ro › books

Irmengard Rauch, ‎Gerald F. Carr, ‎Robert L. Kyes – 1992 – ‎Language Arts & Disciplines

… since forms with *dd < dj predominated, the modern Dutch form is hard ‘hard’, with a … But Van Wijk’s comparison of Balto-Slavic and Common IndoEuropean …

From Early dialectal diversity in South Slavic I | Human Voice …
https://www.scribd.com › document › Early-dialectal-diversity-in-South-Sl…
From How to pronounce the word ‘ddot’ – Quora
https://www.quora.com › How-do-you-pronounce-the-word-ddot
Jun 24, 2013 – I have never heard of this word, could you please elaborate on it’s meaning … Welsh uses an initialdd“, pronounced “th” as in “the”

——————————————————————————-                                                                    But after some time, I was turning by chance to the word Ardeal. Nobody knw when this toponim apeared and the true etymology. ( I found an entire polemic around the etymology on wikipedia)

Erdel — Brill
, Erdīl or Erdelistān , from the Hungarian Erdély ( erdö elve = beyond the forest); Ardeal in Rumanian; Siebenbürgen in German; the Latin name Terra Ultrasilvas and later Transsilvania being a translation of the Hungarian—the province of Transylvania which now constitutes the western portion …
referenceworks.brillonline.com

From Geto-Daci to Vlachs – Romanian History and Culture The Romanian word “Ardeal” was corrupted into “Erdel” and “Erdol” meaning “land of forested heights”. From the … “Ard” as an Indo -European root-word means “hill, forested ..

I had in mind the IE root ERD:”earth

Origins of European Peoples: Part One: Ancient History Mario Mosetto · 2018 · History Hen = tyúk = duck Then = atán = dann Beech = bükkfa = Buchse in German Salmon … Lohn (German) = salary Forest, forestry = erdő, erdel = Erde, earth Origin = eredet(Latin

https://books.google.ro › books
Sievers’ Law and the History of Semivowel Syllabicity in …
P. J. Barber, Peter Jeffrey Barber · 2013 · History
other Indo-European languages. … ὀρθός ‘ straight, upright’; Lat. arduus ‘high, steep‘; OIr. ard ‘high’; ON. o ̨rðugr ‘upright’.72 However

( latin ARDEA :”Heron”) rom. batlan, cocostarc

In my opinion, there is ARD+ article EL (or ARDA+article AL) >> ARDEL, ARDAL, or ARDEA+ article L >>ARDEAL                                 =========================================

But begining from the root ERD, I realised that I have on the round tablet signs HP = “ER”

On the right, the signs D D o c.

But you seem inside the 1-st D there is an sign. Had an trembling hand, tremor the scribe when scraped this first D ? I think not, because the sign not begin at the finish of tracing the sign, when left tha sign tracing (getting the stylus upward).                                           This would be an “L”

So. out of H P D L >we obtain> ERDeL (or ERDELI, ERDELYI) What about the remaining ” Note                                                                                                                                                     Hope there was no such an idiot on earth,  in order to sustain a very early presence of hungarians in Transylvania/Ardeal and make forgeries !                                                                        But what about the remaining D o o”, or  “D o c” signs ?

Could be ERDELYI DOG: ” Ardeal carcass”………Brrr. scared to death !

One is making the connexion with the bones found close by. Another suposition would be “ERDELyi DOC” as for Erdelyi doctor <translated from latin> “Ardeal teacher”

Zsófia Torma – Wikipedia Zsófia Torma (September 26, 1832 – November 14, 1899) was a Hungarian … She was the first female to become an honorary doctor in Kolozsvári m. kir. Ferencz József Tudomány

Could be kind of gift from abroad, from an german? scientist or his brother who was also an archaeolog ? Or an gift handy-made by Torma  for herself waitng in vain the receiving of diploma? In fact the title become effective after she died !

This is the 2-nd time I am coliding with “doc”,                                                                                  cause the 1-st time was when I put D D o c” on Google the outcome was :                          latin abbreviation for “decretorum doctor”=”teacher/profesor of theological doctrine/canonical law”                                                                                                                       ( doceo: lat. “to teach”                                                                                                                           From doceo – Ancient Greek – English Dictionary (LSJ) https://lsj.gr › wiki › doceo             << dŏcĕo: cŭi, ctum, 2, v. a. root da; Zend. dā, to know; strengthened, dak-; Gr. διδάσκω; Lat. disco,  to teach, instruct, inform, show, tell, etc.   >>                                                                                                                                                                                                                            From Doctor (title) – Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Doctor_(title)                                Doctor is an academic title that originates from the Latin word of the same spelling and meaning. The word is originally an agentive noun of the Latin verb docēre [dɔˈkeːrɛ] ‘to teach’.                                                                                                                                       Note: ….. and also DDOC, abbreviation for “DE DOCTRINA CHRISTIANA).                                                                                                                                                                                                        *This “doctor” title was given by Vatican authority around 1.500AD, to some hungarian priests, after finishing studies in superior catholic university, ?one from Romania/Cenad ?)                                                                                                                                                                  Not to forget that HP on the left could be for Hera (greek and latin for mistress)

So MISS TARTARIA of Mr. Marco Merlini, could not be his world-wide trumpeted neolithic sage/priestess, but who knows for sure who in fact was !?                                         ————————————————                                                                                                       If there is DDoc :decretorum doctor” then I must remember you that I advanced hipothesis that tablets had fallen down from upper strata.The tablets were found there from a much new strata or was brought by somebody else, later assuring us that were found on the site.The entire archaeological site “Tartaria Gura Luncii” shape drastically changed, cause  was digged entirely  in different periods of time, from medieval time to modern time. It is crossed by an early medieval trench, pertaining to an fortification.                                                                                                                                   From TĂRTĂRIA-GURA LUNCII. FORTIFICAȚIA MEDIEVALĂ TIMPURIE CARE TAIE TELLUL PREISTORIC Zeno-Karl Pinter Sabin Adrian Luca                                                            << În Evul Mediu, cândva în preajma marii invazii tătaro-mongole (sec. XIII), localnicii realizează o fortificație colosală care, din nefericire, afectează profund situl.                       Fig. 3. Zona sitului de la Tărtăria-Gura Luncii. Imagine cu efectele „ruperii” tell-ului prin construirea fortificației din Evul Mediu (foto Florentina Marțiș).                                         Alte mari distrugeri asupra tellului se datorează construirii drumului modern (șoselei – sec. XX), dar și a căii ferate simple (sec. XIX) și mai apoi duble (sec. XX).Și mai putem să adăugăm și distrugerile cauzate de construirea celor două poduri de cale ferată care străjuiesc dreaptastânga tellul (doar pentru podul dinspre nordest s-au sacrificat aproximativ 2.000 m2!). Este bine să precizăm și faptul că intervențiile la care ne-am referit au condus la distrugeri totale!                                                                                    Fig. 15. Tărtăria-Gura Luncii. Tellul neolitic (galben) și fortificația medievală (albastru).  În momentul de faţă, raportat la actualul stadiu al cercetării, suntem nevoiţi să avem în vedere două ipoteze de lucru privitoare la originea şi funcţionalitatea puternicei fortificaţii (Fig. 15 – conturarea tellului și fortificației) de la Tărtăria-Gura Luncii):

  1. O fortificaţie a tătarilor, un loc de adunare a cetelor tătărăşti înainte de atacul asupra centrului de putere de la Alba-Iulia. În acest caz trebuie însă pusă şi întrebarea, de cine ar fi avut motiv să se teamă tătarii?
    1. O fortificaţie a populaţiei din zonă, un punct de apărare şi în acelaşi timp de control al Văii Mureşului, în punctul cel mai bine plasat strategic, punct de control folosit încă în perioada hallstatiană şi apoi în secolele VIII-IX, aşa cum demonstrează descoperirile mai vechi, dar extrem de relevante, de la Blandiana şi Tărtăria.Pentru această ipoteză avem şi susţinerea singurului izvor scris: Carmen Miserabile în care clericul Roger (Rogerius) relatează în capitolul XL (40) despre existenţa unei populaţii numeroase înTransilvania, populaţie ce a ridicat numeroase fortificaţii după prima trecere a tătarilor spre vest, fortificaţii distruse însă, în cea mai mare parte de tătari, la întoarcerea lor spre Asia.                                                                                   ………………….Încă cele mai vechi cercetări legate de acest material arheologic, consideră că scăriţa de călărie apare în Europa de est după secolul al VI-lea, fiind adusă din Orientul Îndepărtat de către populaţiile de stepă În zona Bazinului Carpatic, ele sunt puse în legătură cu stăpânirea avară. >>              Din https://www.academia.edu/35891668/O_locuire_medieval_timpurie_pe_Valea_Mure%C8%99ului_Mijlociu._T%C4%83rt%C4%83ria-Situl_9                       <<Alături de materialul de tip ceramic întâlnim şi o descoperire numismatică, maiconcret o monedă din cupru (Pl. III/7), identificată în stratul de cultură, în apropiere decomplexul 52, la adâncimea de 0,45 m faţă de nivelul actual de călcare. Piesa are ogreutate de 1,2 g şi un diametru de 2,3 mm, fiind emisă în perioada regelui maghiar Bèla al III-lea (1172-1196)>>
      *******************************************************************                              On the folowing picture, it is not clear if a tooth of the comb-sign go down to the D bar  or not ??. From  TARTARIA TABLETS – Prehistory knowledge

  My final opinion it is for NOT, the same as of Mr. Marco Merlini.

 But one must think that :                                                                               – there are slight chances when sombody is tracing separately the comb-like sign, and after this the “letter row” to result such a continuity/superposing of lines !    Try it !            – when tracing a letter with a ball-pen, we can do it in one step, without lifting the hand, but when scraping, tracing an “b”, is not possible !                                                                        – if it is the case of a religious-related word, we could expect kind of hiding, disguising of signs/letters, in order to not  be read by the  first passer-by at first sight.                                  – we do not know how thought the writer the succesion of steps or what in reality decided, done for writing those signs                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             From  https://www.researchgate.net/figure/First-tablet-from-Tartaria-Picture-483-478-pixels_fig2_331257472          Image result for tartaria tablets

So, taking as real such a posibility, signs : D b o c ??,                                                                   Note:                                                                                                                                                                 Big problem:                                                                                                                                    LUNATE SIGMA. The form of the Greek letter sigma used in Medieval Greek and occasionally in Greek Orthodox Church transcriptions: ϲ.    …. but not as bad I was afraid:

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sigma#Lunate_sigma                                                           <<  In handwritten Greek during the Hellenistic period (4th and 3rd centuries BC), the epigraphic form of Σ was simplified into a C-like shape.>>                                                                                                                                                                                                                    reading: Di b o s >DIVOS                                                                                                                      ! note the  sign inside 1-st D, wanted to make an “I” and the hand trembled ?

From PIE in the Sky: The Proto-Indo-European Root of Zeus http://gorffennol.swansea.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Carys-Mills-PIE-in-the-Sky-the-proto-indo-european-root-of-Zeus.pdf

<<After all, PIE *w became the Latin consonantal u and the Greek ϝ. The ū present in the Latin diūs and Iū is thus explained by PIE *ēw > PItal. *ow > OL. ou > L. ū.

PIE Skt. Gr. Lat.
Nom. dyḗw-s dyaus Ζεύς diūs
Voc. dyew (dyaus) Ζεῦ Iū
Acc. dyḗ-m dyām Ζῆν diem
Gen. diw-ós divas Δι(ϝ)ός Iouis
Dat. diw-éy divē Δι(ϝ)εί-φιλος Iouī
Loc. dyéw-i diví/dyávi Δι(ϝ)ί Ioue
Abl. diw-ós divā Ioue

LATIN Dīvus, adj. ‘divine’
Nom. dīvus dīvī
Voc. dīve dīvī
Acc. dīvum dīvōs
Gen. dīvī dīvōrum
Dat. dīvō dīvīs
Abl. dīvō dīvīs  >>

From ETRUSCANS, VENETI and SLOVENIANS: A Genetic …                                            http://www.korenine.si › zborniki › zbornik05 › belchevsky_rea

<< The forms divo > diva > divi > dii are very similar and also provide an alternate meaning to the Latin words ‘dii > die > deus’. What is most interesting and significant is that ancient coins, which have been found in the Balkans with a form of the word “Divos” inscribed in them [8]:

qibos [9] =  Dibos  = divos”

qibos is similarly close to the Greek word qeios or qeos,  which today is widely used in a significant part of society.

It is important to note here that in other European languages, words associated with the word Theos > Deos > God have only shallow etymological and functional root relationships. Curtius [1] has hinted to the possibility that some present forms of the word Theos could have evolved from the root/concept relating to divos, but he did not provide complete and convincing arguments mainly because he did not consider the Slavic languages as platforms for his interpretation. He quotes the Italian etymologist Ascoli [10] who identified ‘Theos’ with the Sanskrit root div and divja-s ‘heavenly’ and from div-eo-s arrived at dveos and theos:

divos > dibos > qibos > qeios > qeos >>

TARTARIA: HERO DIVOS : ” LORD GOD/DIVINE/CELESTial ” ?                                     romanian:

 “DOMNUL – ZEU D U M N E Z E U

Even using so-called hungarian rovasiras,

Out of the signs: wich are: Z-Ni, ZeN,  Dz-eNi,                                                                                                                                                                                                     From https://www.omniglot.com/writing/hungarian_runes.htm

Székely-Hungarian Rovás

The variants of the Ζεύς paradigm from the different Greek dialects are shown in the
table below:2
Nom. Ζεύς / Δεύς / Ζήν / Ζάς / Ζάν / Δίς
Voc. Ζεῦ
Acc. Ζῆν / Ζῆνα / Δῆν / Δῆνα / Ττῆνα / Τῆνα / Δι(ϝ)α / Δια / Ζᾶνα / Ζέα / Ζεῦν
Gen. Δι(ϝ)ός / Διός / Ζηνός / Ττηνός / Ζανός / Ζαντός / Ζεός

http://www.korenine.si/zborniki/zbornik05/belchevsky_rea.htm                                             It is important at this point to also point out the conceptual relationship of woman to procreation, offspring, existence and life propagation, as most profoundly expressed in Macedonian/Slavic Languages: ???? (zhena), ???? (zhene), ???? (zheni), ?????? (zheneti) > gene > genesis > genetics

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