Coincidence?月氏 Yuèzhī, literally “MOON CLAN”/ 20-th of June, 2019, 4.45 a.m.

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  • Tablets display a mixture of signs, for wich the closest writing sistem beeing sumerian proto-cuneiform, otherwise the signs beeing present in later periods of time and large cultural areas, from Near East to Europe. My denomination for the group of signs is ” a mixture of signs”, if not hodge-podge. Some of the signs are close and exactly as letters from archaic greek writing.                                                              
  • There was found an inscription in Sannicolaul-Mare/Romania, “BUYLA INSCRIPTION”, written with greek letters but but written by a late wave of an asiatic migratory people of turkik/altaic stock, (avar) people.                                              I advance here the hipothesis that  Tartaria tablets were written by same people as Buyla inscription.                                                                                                                          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  • Sumerians, after one hipothesis were coming from Asia, beeing a branch of altaic family.

                                                                                                                                                             From › …                                                                                                  Yet Another Suggestion about the Origins of the Sumerian …

    • by I Kenanidis –

      << the Sumerian is not a language isolate, as it is regarded so far, but that it may be classified as an rAltaic language of the Bolgar branch.>>                                                          

    •  Geto-dacians linked with scitians, saka and KUSAN (Da yuezhi).                                                                                                                                                                                          From;           <<  It is, therefore, not rare to read in Indian scriptures about the Sakas, Kushans (Da Yuezhi), and even the Hunas (White Huns or Ephthalites) being considered as Mlecchas (foreigners, outcastes), Asuras (demons), etc. (Dhillon 1994, 15). Similar perspectives are alluded to in Persian or Chinese texts.                                                       …..  Da (Greater) Yuezhi or in the earlier pronunciation d’ad-ngiwat-tieg, has been seen to equate with the Massagetae who occupied the oases and steppelands of West Central Asia in the time of Herodotus; here Massa renders an Iranian word for “Great,” hence “Great Getae.” … Others have seen in this word an attempt to capture in Chinese the name of a tribe that is rendered in Greek as the Iatioi who are recorded in Ptolemy’s geography. The original pronunciation has been reconstructed as gwat-ti or got-ti or gut-si, which opens up distant lexical similarities with the Goths (the German tribes of northern and eastern Europe), the Getae (the Dacian, i.e., Balkan, tribes northwest of the Black Sea), the Guti (a people on the borderlands of Mesopotamia), the Kusha (our Kushans), the Gushi (a people mentioned in Han texts and regarded as brigands along with the peoples of Kroran), or a combination of some but not all of the above (Mallory and Mair 2000, 98-99).

      This comparison of like-sounding tribal names, although merely a paragraph in length, could potentially generate volumes of discussion and can help us understand more definitively the nature of the barbarian invasions in ancient Rome, the powerful Kushan Empire in India, the possible origins of the Guti people, the Guti kings of Mesopotamia, and the similarity between the Goths, Getae, and the Yuezhi. Moreover, this opens up the possibility that at least some of the people termed “Scythians” were a single tribe — the Getae. So could there have been a nation of nomads who knew themselves as Gets, Gats, Guts, or Yuts?
    •   In my opinion, the tablets by far are not so old as was estimated in past time.Tartaria-Gura Luncii archaeological site by one hand is containing different cultures folowing one after another and by the other hand was turned upside-down by the river Mures and modern construction works. One of the most recent remains pertain to an fortification, maybe madeby tatars.
    •                                                                                                                                                             << În momentul de faţă, raportat la actualul stadiu al cercetării, suntem nevoiţi să avem în vedere două ipoteze de lucru privitoare la originea şi funcţionalitatea puternicei fortificaţii (Fig. 15 –conturarea tellului și fortificației) de la Tărtăria-Gura Luncii:
        1. O fortificaţie a tătarilor, un loc de adunare a cetelor tătărăşti înainte de atacul asupra centrului deputere de la Alba-Iulia.
      1. O fortificaţie a populaţiei din zonă, un punct de apărare şi în acelaşi timp de control al Văii

      Mureşului, în punctul cel mai bine plasat strategic, punct de control folosit încă în perioada hallstatiană şi apoi în secolele VIII-IX, aşa cum demonstrează descoperirile mai vechi, dar extrem de relevante, de la Blandiana şi Tărtăria.Pentru această ipoteză avem şi susţinerea singurului izvor scris: Carmen Miserabile în care clericul Roger (Rogerius) relatează în capitolul XL (40) despre existenţa unei populaţii numeroase în Transilvania, populaţie ce a ridicat numeroase fortificaţii după prima trecere a tătarilor spre vest, fortificaţii distruse însă, în cea mai mare parte de tătari, la întoarcerea lor spre Asia „…                                                                                                                     ….. Dacă fortificaţia de la Tărtăria face parte dintre cele multe ridicate: „castra plurima preparata”, atunci este foarte probabil că este şi dintre puţinele nepustiite: „exceptis castris quibustam”, deoarece urme ale unei incendieri sau ale unui conflict armat nu au fost surprinse arheologic. Aceasta ar fi putut, de asemenea, să fie rezultatul „cruţării” fortificaţiei de la Tărtăria, în scopul folosirii ei drept loc de reşedinţă, drept centru de putere al noii forţe militare ce se impune, pentru foarte scurt timp în Transilvania, într-un loc apropiat de centrul ecleziastic şi politic de la Alba Iulia, un loc dominant şi un excelent punct de observaţie şi control.>>

    • ===============================================
    • All scientists encountered difficulties with the interpretation of those “Dletter” shaped signs (otherwise not appearing only in much later time) on the round tablet.                                                                                                             Image,                                                    
    • Some sought that represented the Moon. And near-by e.g. in the upper-left corner of the round tablet it is an H-like sign, wich represented in early chinese writing, in different times (beginning with Jiahu bones) Sun or Moon.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         From
    • What about IF indeed, trully represented the Sun and Moon !? !?                                                                                       Note.                                                                                                                       Surprisingly, the sing was archaic greek letter Heta/Eta, so I expected to be a monogram for Helios/ Elios…No way, not found !
    • ==========================================                                                        … but much rare than the D-signs itself, there is the sign group “D D o o”
    • Until now, only 3 main hypothesis were advanced:                                                             1- an sumerian-like number                                                                                         2- moon phases                                                                                                                 3 – greek word, written with archaic greek letters ; latin abbreviation D.D.O.C. (“de doctrina christiana”; “decretorum doctor” )
    • Afterwards, there is only one language in the World wich permit such a sequence !!                                                       =============================================

…..if my 2 days before post was entitled “AN CURIOUS-DUBIOUS ENTERTAINMENT” now I am not sure wich be the title.  There I reffered to an inscription found  in Sannicolau-Mare city, in the west of Romania wich has signs similar those on Tartaria tablets (at least regarding that round-one tablet).                                                                                                             Sannicolau Mare map,

                                                                                                                        In fact, at Sannicolau-Mare were found a hoard of inscriptions, on different artefacts. For all some scientists expressed their opinions:                                                                    VEKONY, András; Róna-Tas /Hungary,                                                                                          Eugene HELIMSKY/ Hamburg and                                                                                                   José Andrés ALONSO DE LA FUENTE (Vitoria/Barcelona)                                                       This article is reffering to another inscription found also there,                                                                                                                                                                                                                                THE BUYLA INSCRIPTION.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      On probable Tungus-Manchurian origin of the Buyla inscription from Nagy-Szentmiklós (preliminary communication) Eugene Helimski (Hamburg) Studia Etymologica Cracoviensia 5 (2000) Kraków 2000

1.1. The famous treasure of Nagy-Szentmiklós was found exactly two hundred years ago, in 1799. It consists of 23 gold bowls, dishes, jars, and cups, and belongs now to the exposition of the Kunsthistorisches Museum in Vienna. It was found in Banat, near the village of Nagy-Szentmiklós (today Sînnicolau Mare, to the north-west of Temesvár-Timişoara). The detailed description of the treasure and the history of studies is given in László, Rácz 1983; see also an ample bibliography compiled by Mária Ivanics (in Göbl, Róna-Tas 1995: 59-77).

There are no direct indications for dating and attribution of the objects. Most estimates place them in the period between the 5th and the 10th centuries, the first half of the 9thcentury being the most wide-spread (and still, rather likely then proven) dating, see Róna-Tas 1990: 9; in his more recent publication András Róna-Tas (1997: 110) gives however preference to the second half of the 8th century . Therefore the treasure is usually referred to as “Avar” or “Late Avar”, sometimes also as “Protobulgarian” (e.g. Mavrodinov 1943 as well as later literature from Bulgaria). This, however, does not necessarily characterise its provenance: as far as analogues to goldsmiths’ work, vessel forms, pictorial representations, and ornamental motives are concerned, references has been made to the Carpathian basin and to the entire Eurasian steppe zone, to Byzantium and to Southern Europe, to the Caucasus and to Iran.

1.2. The objects belonging to this treasure have inscriptions of three kinds which received recently a detailed palaeographic analysis in Göbl, Róna-Tas 1995. An inscription in Greek (the reading of which remains non-unproblematic, see Vékony 1973) is repeated twice on two paired bowls. The famous “Buyla inscription” (Inscr. 17 on buckled bowl [Schnallenschale] XXI) is written also with Greek letters, but in a non-Greek language.13 objects have short inscriptions written with an unknown script of the “runiform” type.                                                                                                                                   It has been confirmed many times and by various study methods that the Nagy-Szentmiklós inscriptions differ not only in language and script, but also were not made by the same hand and therefore may originate from different (geographically as well as chronologically) artisan shops – as well as the gold objects themselves. “ ……………………………………………………………………….

However, this circumstance could not be taken into consideration in the numerous attempts to decipher the text: the Turkic languages do not know an ending like –Vgi in systematic grammatical use.                                                                                                              It is Tungus-Manchurian that fits this demand: here one of the most frequent, wide-spread and archaic verbal forms of 3Sg. is reconstructed as *-ra-gī (with harmonic variants like *-re-gī and with variants determined partly by the assimilation of the initial consonants and partly by the conjugation class like *da-gī,                               …………………………………                                                                                                                     3. It is almost universally assumed that the engraver – poor devil! – knew neither the Turkic language nor the Greek script, and that nobody possessing this knowledge cared to control his work. The entire philological experience proves, however, that assumptions of that kind (and they occur, regretfully, too frequently) signalise only the inadequacy of interpretations – not of the texts in question. ============================                                                                                                  Despite I read at least one of articles wich is reffering to this inscription, only yestarday I had a declic, some facts catched my attention, as those two:                                                          FIRST :                                                                                                                                                     We have in Buyla inscription the word:                                                                              “4.3.3. ΗΤΖΙΓΗ.

The participial aorist of TM *iče– ‘to see, to observe’ should be probably reconstructed as *eregī or (if the stem belonged to the conjugation classes II or III, see Benzing 1955: 123-128) resp. *ičesegī or *ičedegī. However, the consonantal stem in Even – and Orok it-, as well as the variation of vowels in the second syllable in the derivatives of other TM languages (cf. Evenki ulī– ‘to check, to investigate’, Nanai uči– ‘to show’, Solon isȫ– ‘to appear’, see TMS 2: 334-335)/”                                                                              That ΗΤΖΙΓΗ sounded me as hell close to  IZIGI, ICIGI, YAZIGI !                                             2-ND:                                                                                                                                                       I found in the papers reffering to this inscription, that in tungusik linguistic family, more precise in OROK language, there is a grammar structure (used as suffixe, but also as a word) -DDoo.                                                                                                                                          Exactly as we have on Tartaria round tablet !   cum avem pe tablita rotunda de la Tartaria !          (we have DDoo upon canaanite and greek alphabets)

From                            by J IKEGAMI

INFLECTION OF OROK  The substantive endings are as follows.
-ba•san object which is subjected to motion .•t
-la•sa place, with some extension in space or time, where motion
occurs or a state exists.•t
-ndoo•sa co-agent.•t
-ddoo•s’as (something)
designated for someone.’•t                                                                    …the simple designative case-ending -ddoo can appear as a word. 

From;   urchen dedu-           to sleep


If using khazar alphabet, wi’ll have DDoo=”jjmb”? “jjmm=iimm“?


Din khazarian culture and its inheritors – Jstor &nbsp;by A ZAJĄCZKOWSKI –

“umma (iimm‘at) “congrégation, corn munity of  .

ATTENTION,                                                                                                                                     THEORETICALLY AND PRACTICALLY WE CAN READ THE TABLET USING KHAZAR ALPHABET OR ARCHAIC GREEK ALPHABET (last used mainly on S-Mare inscriptions)

BUT ANYBODY IS REALISING (beeing a question of logic and common-sense) CANNOT BE USED BOTH IN THE SAME TIME  !                                                                                                     ======================

In the before posting I’ve found in the signs  using khazar alphabet, letters  CS(Ci) and J(i).In this case, reading from R>L, we have ICsI (ICI) and from L>R  “CsI ” .( see above in Even,   , and in TM(tarim-manciurian?) *iče :”to see, observe“)         Note.                                                                                                                                                        It is not the time to rush, aserting that in this portion the writing is L>R or R>L, as long as the result is quite the same (ICI visa Ci), nor regarding the reading ; nobody is casing me !

From folowing paper,

 José Andrés ALONSO DE LA FUENTE (Vitoria/Barcelona)


                                                                                                                                                                << VIIicigi(ī-,y-,ī)icigii icä-rä.gii-Ø{see-PRT.AOR-3SG}iči-y.i < *iči-g-i{drink-DER-3SG.POSS}[izafet construction? >>

exactly the denomination component of the tribes   ičigi=  ICIGI, IZIGI, YAZIGI.

From      English translations : classifier, single, alone, odd number

之 (of) , 支 (to support) ,  (branch) 汁 (juice) , 知 (to know) , 织 (to weave)    ===============

From Daxia

DaxiaTa-Hsia, or Ta-Hia (Chinese大夏pinyinDàxià; literally: ‘Great Xia’) was apparently the name given in antiquity by the Han Chinese to Tukhara or Tokhara: the main part of Bactria, in what is now northern Afghanistan, and parts of southern Tajikistan and Uzbekistan.

The name “Daxia” first appears in Chinese accounts from the 3rd century BCE, to designate a kingdom in the far west – possibly a consequence of the first contacts with the expansion of the Greco-Bactrian Kingdom – and then is used by the explorer Zhang Qian in 126 BCE to designate Bactria.

It is possible that “Daxia”, in part, conflated or confused Tokhara with the country of the Dahae (on the south-eastern shores of the Caspian Sea), who were usually known in classical Chinese sources as the Dayi (Chinese大益pinyinDayi).[1]

Daxia is mentioned by, for instance, Chapter VIII (Xiao Kuang) of the Guanzi (7th Century BCE): “In the west [Duke Huan]… having passed through the valleys of the Taihang and Bier, took captive the chief of the Da Xia. Further to the west, he subjugated the Xi Yu of Liusha, and for the first time the Rong People of Qin were obedient.” (Taihang and Bier are located along the Shanxi-Hebei border in China.)

From (PDF) Origin of Yuezhi Tribe | Adesh Gurjar –;                                              ” In Chinese , Tocharians were mentioned are Yuechi, which means Moon –Tribe

From                                                                 ” Etymology From Mandarin 月氏 (Yuèzhī, literally Moon Clan) or 月支 (Yuèzhī, literally Moon Branch).                                                                                                         Yuezhi pl (plural only)                                                                                                                        1.An ancient Indo-European people who originally settled in the arid grasslands of the eastern Tarim Basin area, in what is today Xinjiang and western Gansu, in China, before migrating to TransoxianaBactria and then northern South Asia, where one branch of the Yuezhi founded the Kushan Empire.                                                            Synonyms Rouzhi ”

Map, from


Then would be determined exactly the role and meaning of the structure  -DDoo.           


                                                                                                                             From folowing paper,                                                                                                                   <<Language   Ending      Description                    Reference                                                                      Orok     ddoo–    + POSS.REF.Partitive    Petrova (1967: 51–52) >>

 José Andrés ALONSO DE LA FUENTE (Vitoria/Barcelona)


                                                                                                                                                                  “1. Introductory remarks
In a series of articles, the late Eugene Helimski (2000a, 2000b, 2003, 2004)argued that an aberrant form of Tungusic could have entered the Carpathian basin during the Avar period,the only evidence of which is preserved in the Buyla(or Boyla/Boila) inscription and a handful of words found in the classical sources on the Avars. Moreover, it is possible to infer from the wording of the author that the Avar confederation could have been constituted, among many other un-known nations, by a small contingent of Tungusic individuals (Helimski 2000b:
53 fn. 12). It was the Tungusic reading of the Buyla inscription that led him to
this conclusion.Tungusic is one of the many indigenous ethnolinguistic groups of the Asian continent, its current habitat covering most of Eastern Siberia and Manchuria.Speakers of the Northern Tungusic languages can be found in Central and Northeastern China, whereas the bulk of the Southern Tungusic speakers concentrates in the Amurian region and the Northernmost part of the Sakhalin Island.
Manchuric speakers aside, about which we know a great deal thanks to Chinese
sources, the Siberian Tungusic were first reported at the very beginning of the17
th century. The time depth of the Tungusic language family is very shallow,
with Manchuric being the most aberrant group (specialists consider this condition

to be the result of Mongolic and Chinese influence)

The Avar-Tungusic theory is indeed a bold proposal. If it turns out that
Helimski is right, then the Buyla inscription would instantly become the oldest linguistic monument in any Tungusic language, washing away even the earliest Jurchen records. In spite of the apparent relevance of such a statement, Helimski’s proposal was passed over in silence in the Tungusic specialist literature. No less surprising is to nd out that critics from other areas disregard the Tungusic na-ture of the Buyla inscription without discussing its substance. They are usually
Turcologists believing that the only possible reading of the inscription has to be
Turkic. The most explicit statement was made by Erdal: “[…] the hypothesis is,
however, arrived at by some arbitrary stretching of Tungus data, [it] is far-fetched
 by itself and is therefore rather unlikely” (2007: 79).Erdal did not go into great
detail in order to explain the reader what the “stretch of the Tungus data” involved.Therefore, the general opinion is that the Tungusic reading of the Buyla inscription is wrong,but no one can explain why that is so.
The main goal of this paper is to provide the reader with an evaluation of
Helimski’s hypothesis based on the Tungusic data. Neither the geopolitical scenario
set up by Helimski (or by any other author for that mater) nor the paleographicalanalysis of the inscription shall be discussed at large in the present contribution.The former issue seemingly depends in its entirety on the linguistic hypothesis thateach of the author endorses.As for the latter, the topic has been approached by specialists much more qualied than the present author (see
i.a. Róna-Tas 2001)


From the viewpoint of European history, the so-called Asian Avars are traditionally identified as the Ruanruan (402–555). The term Avars refers to the European Avars (567–822), i.e. the Asian Avars that entered Europe in 555 AD (see i.a. Pohl 2002).
The Nagyszentmiklós treasure to which the Buyla inscription belongs (see §2 below)
is associated with the last remnants of the European Avar culture, i.e. the one whichspread over the Carpathian basin during the 8th –9th centuries.                    Good summaries withadditional literature of the two major competing interpretations regarding the ethno-linguistic afinities of the Ruanruan can be found in Golden (1992: 76–79), who presents the traditional position that the Ruanruan were actually a Mongolic language population, and Janhunen (1996: 190), who believes that the linguistic core of the Ruanruan was Turkic. Beckwith (2009: 390–391) points out that “[c]areful study of
the Jou-jan [= Ruanruan] names in the Chinese sources could shed light on the eth-nolinguistic afinities of the Jou-jan; until that is done, speculation on the subject is
 premature.” In the same vein, see Vovin’s remarks (2007: 180, 184–185). Incidentally,
the hypothetical connection between the ethnonyms ruanruan and ju()cen ‘Jurchen
echoed by Helimski (2000b: 137) is most likely false and should be abandoned (for the
etymological intricacies of the term ju()cen, see Janhunen 2004).
 As is custom in recent specialist literature on Tungusic linguistics and in agree-
ment with some of the ideas by Janhunen on phonological transcription (1987, 1996:
xiii–xiv), Helimski’s ‹e› has been replaced with ‹ä›, ‹j› with ‹y›, ‹ʒ & ǯ› and ‹c & č›
merged in ‹j› and ‹c›, respectively, vowel length is written with double-vowels. Other
conventions: Northern Tungusic (= Northwestern: Ewenki, Ewen, Solon, Negidal,
Arman, Udihe), Southern Tungusic (= Amurian Tungusic: Oroch, Nanay, Kilen, Kili,
Ulcha, Orok), with Udihe and Oroch serving as a bridge between one branch and the
other, Manchuric (Early and Late Jurchen, Written Manchu [= WM], Spoken Manchu
and Sibe), Common Tungusic [= CT] (all languages but Manchuric, i.e. NorthernTungusic + Southern Tungusic), and Proto-Tungusic (= Pan-Tungusic = CommonTungusic + Manchuric). “Lit.” stands for “Literary”, and ‹-n› for (lightly) nasalized
nal vowel. The difference between Proto-Tungusic and Pan-Tungusic is that the latter
does not make any claims regarding the (genealogical) inheritance of a given word,
i.e. it may refer to both inherited and borrowed terms (see for instance the presence of
English loanwords across entire linguistic families: they are common, pan-elements, but not proto-elements; the former emphasizes the synchronic distribution, the latter its diachronic depth).It may be worth noting that the Middle Amur region is commonly identified as the most likely Urheimat for the parental language from which all the Tungusic languages descend (see general discussion in Janhunen 1996: 167–172, and also Janhunen 1985, 2012,2013: 27–28; for further details on the Northern Tungusic expansion, see Atknine 1997and, for the larger Altaistic perspective, see Miller 1994). ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NOW THE DEEP FOG IN WICH WERE ENCLOSED TARTARIA TABLETS SEEMS TO BEGIN TO DISPERSE ;                                                                                                                        A SERIES OF UNELUCIDATED ASPECTS AND PARTICULARITIES OF THE WRITING ITSELF SEEMS TO BE CLEARED                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            ON THE HONESTITY OF THE FINDER ARCHAEOLOGIST N.VLASSA, MOST HAD NO DOUBT;  IN THE SITUATION THAT TABLETS SEEMED TO COME RATHER FROM THE COSMIC VOID                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~                                                                                          SO MY CONCLUSIONS ARE:
                                                                                                                                                               1. The tablets are authentic,genuine and were found by Vlassa an his teamwork.                   It is natural that was puzzled by the writing, he not beeing an epigraphist. What to say about others, highly specialised in the field (assyrologists and others specialised in sumerian proto-writing wich got cathed in the net-eyes of own specialties )                                                                                                                                                                                              2. By far are not so old as innitialy was presumed. Could be made by a member of a migratory population of altaic-mongolic keen.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             3. The writer was not mastering well the art of writing:                                                                                          from one’s paper  ” It is almost universally assumed that the engraver – poor devil! – knew neither the Turkic language nor the Greek script, and that nobody possessing this knowledge cared to control his work.”                                                                   by the moment i canot conclude that the letters are coming from khazar or archaic greek alphabets.                                                                                                                                                “may originate from different (geographically as well as chronologically) artisan shops -”   Anycase not pertained to peoples with great writing heritage, also cultural heritage is another/not the same mater.
4. Beeing relative new, and having provenance from populations wich “weeped” an time span and extreme large area, one could have the explanation the aquisition of so many signs, coming from different time and places.                                                                        World top scientists in the field (A.Falkenstein, Aisic Abramovici, Rumen Kolev si altii) get caught in own nets, and fooled trying attempting readings using sumerian proto-cuneiform signs.
5. It happens that before extended discusions that tablets were used in magic rituals, now we are dealing with exactly the population where shamanism was invented and practiced (and from where through russian language the word shaman come to us)
6. Hope you are realising that there is a connexion (as many scientists stated tens of years before) between  Kushan/ Samara/SAKA/ YUE-ZI (citeste yue-tchi=yue-ci), YAZIGI populations and Dacians  !                                                                                                                                Not to remind you that pecenegs, bulgars cumans and avars were inter-related populations wich hundreds of years almost without interuption, swept Europe coming from Asia

From;                                                              The Yuezhi (Chinese月氏pinyinYuèzhīWade–GilesYüeh4-chih1[ɥê ʈʂɻ̩́]) were an ancient Indo-European[5][6][7][8] people first described in Chinese histories as nomadic pastoralists living in an arid grassland area in the western part of the modern Chinese province of Gansu, during the 1st millennium BC. After a major defeat by the Xiongnu in 176 BC, the Yuezhi split into two groups migrating in different directions: the Greater Yuezhi (Dà Yuèzhī 大月氏) and Lesser Yuezhi (Xiǎo Yuèzhī 小月氏).

The Greater Yuezhi initially migrated northwest into the Ili Valley (on the modern borders of China and Kazakhstan), where they reportedly displaced elements of the Sakas. They were driven from the Ili Valley by the Wusun and migrated southward to Sogdiaand later settled in Bactria, where they then defeated the Greco-Bactrian Kingdom. The Greater Yuezhi have consequently often been identified with Bactrian peoples mentioned in classical European sources, like the Tókharioi (Greek Τοχάριοι; Sanskrit Tukhāra) and Asii (or Asioi). During the 1st century BC, one of the five major Greater Yuezhi tribes in Bactria, the Kushanas(Chinese貴霜pinyinGuìshuāng), began to subsume the other tribes and neighbouring peoples.


7. Otherwise if talking of mongolian and chinese influence,:

“The time depth of the Tungusic language family is very shallow,
with Manchuric being the most aberrant group (specialists consider this condition
to be the result of Mongolic and Chinese influence)”,                                                               
An interesting hypothesis if the signs :   
 represented by Chinese shining/ SUN (Ri) and MOON (Yue)
Another hypothesis:                                                                                                                              If HD sequence is to be read ICI, *iče :”to see, observe“, would be at hand that on upper half o the round tartaria tablet to have at left “to see, observe” and on the right D D O o /R D o c, the Moon phases.  !!

Далай-лама: Монгольским племенам нужно развивать в себе дух …;                                                    EtymologyProbably from a Turkic language before the times of the Hungarian conquest of the Carpathian Basin (at the turn of the 9th and 10th centuries).                                        Adjective örök (not comparable) 1.eternal

Yuezhi 月氏, Tokharians                               


Now, even the above demonstration would be tempting, attractive or convincing, there are remaining twoo main hipothesys regarding the tablets origin, both with quite equal chances, every of them having PRO/plus and CONTRA/minus arguments:


PLUS-es:                                                                                                                                                  – there were such real migrations wich left traces in Romania                                                            – reinforce dacians origin theories advanced by scientists from tens of years beforese regarding asian-related origin.                                                                                          – if related to Kushan/Tocharian people, then were of I.European origin, there is not more the problem of tablets origin or who brought them                                                     – there were found other inscriptions alike, true few but exists. Not anymore “the singleton difficulty/issue”                                                                                                                        – a long series of question marks, aspects and inadvertencies are cleared up with this hipothesys (magic rituals<>shaman? ; how could somebody know so many signs some close to our time)                                                                                                                        – the presence of D-signs exactly where an “secret,hidden message” whas supposed to be and where could have true writing and an clear-concrete message, is explained.

MINUS-es:                                                                                                                                               – consequence ,not so old age for the tablets.                                                                                    – artefacts found close-by indicates another origin, Aegean.Cycladic one.                            – if population was related to avars, tungus (and wonder wich else), that population risk  not to be  Indo-European.                                                                                                                  – if related to Kushan they used another type of writing                                                           – maximal similarity  (as a whole) of the signs with sumerian proto-cuneiform-ones, folowed by Aegean/Cretan/anatolian ones.                                                                                       – signs D not appearing only after 1500- 1800 B.C. in old-Canaanite and archaic Greek writings.

AN CLOSE, EUROPEAN ORIGIN                                                                                                                                                                              

PLUSes                                                                                                                                                      –  greater age (than khazar,avar,etc. variant)                                                                                  – artefacts found close-by  similar of that  Cycladic -; tablets could be as well carian.        – there are real chances for signs transmission from Sumer (early minoans were in fact sumerian migrants/Papakitsos and Kenanidis) via Syria to Aegean and as consequence an increased age.                                                                                                          – signs maximal similarities with (in order) : Sumerian , Aegean& Anatolian.

MINUSes                                                                                                                                                   – improbable (unatested) population movement from Aegean to North, rather reverse.                                                                                                                                                     – ramaining unsolved issue where were inscribed the tablets or who brought them (remain the hipothesys of “lost/unknown traveller/trader”                                                            – there are no similar inscriptions by us, there are unique/singletons.                                      – there were not used D-signs in proto sumerian script nor in Aegean ones, only in Old-canaanite and archaic Greek ones. 



1. AMULETS.                                                                                                                              Among the Tungus groups and Manchus there is a belief that there are various things which may bring luck in different branches of human activity. Such things are usually incidentally found in the form of natural abnormalities, monstrosities, rare unknown things, etc. If the Tungus happen to learn something new along this line they include it into their complex without any hesitation. Owing to this there now is in vogue a belief into the possibility of finding treasures, ever-lasting food, etc., borrowed from the Chinese, Mongols and even Russians. The function of the amulets in Tungus life is not great, but they never refuse to collect them and keep, for nobody exactly knows what is true and what is not, but to keep these things is not difficult. Yet one likes to have a hope of finding a fortune, or luck. The coincidence of «luck» with finding or using amulets often brings confirmation of the supposedly existing correlation between amulets and luck. Owing to the character of this hypothesis of the amulets and particular hypotheses regarding relationship between particular amulets and particular forms (cases) of luck are subject to great variations, not only among the ethnical groups but also in the life of generations and individuals. I will here give a list of amulets which, as a matter of fact, may be extended by more detailed investigation of the groups and even individuals. Naturally the amulets are much more fashionable among the Tungus who are in close contact with the other ethnical groups, and especially among those who are under the Chinese influence.

The amulets are called among the Manchus and Tungus groups influenced by them, — bobai, [cf. Dahur baobai (Poppe), – «precious», «precious thing»; Manchu baobai (Zaxarov), – id. from Chinese bao-bei] while among the reindeer Tungus of Manchuria and those of the Amur Government it is called ajeya. Amulets may be carried on the cradles, with the tobacco bag, attached to the spirits. Many amulets have been formed from the placings for spirits and special things used for protection. Therefore to establish the line of demarcation between an amulet and former placing for spirits or protector against them, is impossible. Such is also the Tungus attitude in this matter. If such an amulet is found and if it is followed by luck in hunting there must be given sacrifice to the local spirits or to the spirit which is held responsible for the success.                                                                           Once I met with the hypothesis that all amulets are produced by the spirits and therefore one must consider any amulet as indicative of future luck to be produced by the spirits, — the spirits therefore must have regular sacrifices from those who carry the amulets, and if the sacrifice is not given it will be very bad for those who carry the amulets.                                                                                                            Indeed, this idea puts a certain limitation upon the collecting of amulets. However, this is not a general belief.

Here are a few examples of articles used for amulets: ……………………………”

Din [PDF] S. Starostin. Tungus- Manchu etymology                         

Proto-Tungus-Manchu: *epu

Altaic etymology: Altaic etymology
Meaning: 1 elder sister’s husband 2 grandfather, elder relative 3 bear 4 father’s elder brother
Russian meaning: 1 муж старшей сестры 2 дед, старший родственник 3 медведь 4 старший брат отца
Negidal: epo, epa 4
Spoken Manchu: efū 1 (905)
Literary Manchu: efu 1
Orok: ēpi2, epeke 2, 3
Proto-Tungus-Manchu: *sebe-
Altaic etymology: Altaic etymology
Meaning: 1 ghost (shaman’s aid) 2 idol 3 God                                                                 (eugenrau:Tartaria tablet   Se                                                                                                                                                              D b o o )
Proto-Tungus-Manchu: *dēdu Altaic etymology:
Meaning: to care, like, love
Russian meaning: любить, оберегать, уважать
Negidal: dēdeluUlcha: dēdu(n)
Nanai: dēdu
Oroch: deduli
Proto-Tungus-Manchu: *pedēAltaic etymology:
Meaning: to ford, cross over
Russian meaning: переехать, переправиться
Evenki: hedē
Proto-Tungus-Manchu: *ēdeAltaic etymology:
Meaning: 1 silly 2 defect, shortcoming
Russian meaning: 1 глупый 2 недостаток, увечье
Literary Manchu: eden 2
Ulcha: ede(n) 1
Nanai: ēdẽ 1
Oroch: ede 1
Udighe: ēde 1
Proto-Tungus-Manchu: *arAltaic etymology:
Meaning: 1 to make, work, construct 2 to come to one’s senses 3 to cause fear (оf an evil ghost), to appear in one’s imagination 4 shape, form 5 evil spirit
Proto-Tungus-Manchu: *erü-n
Altaic etymology:
Meaning: time
Russian meaning: время
Even: eri
Negidal: ejun
Spoken Manchu: erin (2648)
Literary Manchu: erin
Jurchen: erin (89)
Ulcha: eru(n)
Orok: eru
(n) / eri(n)
Proto-Tungus-Manchu: *eriAltaic etymology:
Meaning: 1 to breathe 2 breath 3 soul
Russian meaning: 1 дышать 2 дыхание 3 душа
Evenki: erī- 1, erīn 2, 3
Even: eri- 1, erin 2
Negidal: ejī- 1, ejgen 2, 3
Spoken Manchu: erǝxǝn ‘breath, life’ (39, 693, 2965)
Literary Manchu: erge- ‘to rest’, ergen 2, 3
Jurchen: erin-he ( = erhen) (517)
Ulcha: ersi- 1, erge(n) 2
Orok: er(i)- 1
Proto-Altaic: *ĕ̀r a
Nostratic: Nostratic
Meaning: to be
Russian meaning: быть
Turkic: *er-

Mongolian: *ere-                                                                                                                        Tungus-Manchu: *eri-

Din › article › gengo1939 › _pdf                                                                      1. In Orok (Orokko), a dialect of Tungus,(1) substantives are … J IKEGAMI – ‎1956 
                                                                                                                                                                   [ In Orok (Orokko), a dialect of Tungus,(1) substantives endings:                                                                       –ddoo    <”as. (something) designated for someone’> ]
OROK , ER:”soul”
OROK  sufix –DDOO “for,to (smb.)”
ER-DDOO = FOR SOUL (al cuiva)
Proto-Tungus-Manchu: *irg[ü]

Altaic etymology: Altaic etymology

Meaning: 1 brain 2 head
Russian meaning: 1 мозг 2 голова
Evenki: irge 1
Even: irgъ 1
Negidal: igge / ijge 1
Spoken Manchu: uǯu 2 (1)
Literary Manchu: uǯu 2
Jurchen: (h)u(i)ǯew (492) 2
Ulcha: iǯe 1
Nanai: īge 1
Oroch: igge 1
Udighe: igi 1
Solon: igge, irge 
IDE-DDOO = “destinated/for HEAD?mind?” 
Proto-Tungus-Manchu: *sē

Altaic etymology: Altaic etymology

Meaning:year, age
Russian meaning: год, возраст
Spoken Manchu:  (2725)
Literary Manchu: se
Jurchen: sejŋ-ŋer (82)
Udighe: se
           SE                                      YEAR/AGE
IDE-DDOO = HEAD/?MIND?destinated/for   , (? added sign  +++++ reprez.50 years. ?)
             SE                      AGE
(in greek , sign+++ is “Xi, Xe”  ; Xero ~ SERo)
sau       <<Language   Ending      Description                    Reference                                                                      Orok     ddoo–    + POSS.REF.Partitive    Petrova (1967: 51–52) >
                                                                                                                                                                 ERDDOO :” AS  SOUL
From  Grammatical Outline ofUilta (Revised)
                                                                                                                                                                3.1 Noun
3.11 Declension
3.111 Simple case-endings
The simplenominative form has no ending and is employed as the basic stem for oblique
cases. Some case-endings take different forms according to the stem-final phonemic structures which are roughly grouped into three types: -CV#, -VV#, and -(C)#. The stem-final -n of polysyllabic words may not appear in the simple nominative form.
-CV#              -VV#                          -(C)#
ʻdoorwayʼ ʻplace in a dwellingʼ     ʻchestʼ
Nominative                              ute                 bee                          tunendu
Acc maative                 +ba    uttee           beewa                      tunembe
Dativeʻatʼ                        -du    utedu          beedu                       tuuendu
Directiveʻtoʼ                   -tai    utetei          beetai                        tunettei
Locativeʻinʼ                     -la     utele            beela                      tunendule
Prolative                         -kk – utekkee    – beekkee –                tunekkee                                                 -ʻalong, throughʼ
Ablatlveʻfromʼ              -duu uteduu       beeduu                     tunenduu
Instrumentalʻby,thanʼ  -ji      uteji          beeji                           tunenji
Designativeʻasʼ            -ddoo- uteddoobeeddoo-                tunendoo                                       Comitativeʻwithʼ         -ndoo (utendoo) (beendoo)               (tunendoo)
See also:Yuezhi › Indo-Eurasian › Tocharians2009 PDF
The page was published by Sergei Oldenburg in 1892, who received two sheets of the manuscript from Russian consul Petrovski in Kašghar (in. North-Western …
(PDF) The separate origins of the Tocharians and the Yuezhi … › publication › 318897882_The_se…
Background The origin of the Tocharians and their relationship to the Yuezhi (月 … The personal papers of Sergey F. Oldenburg as a source for the history of the.                                                                                                           <<As mentioned in historical records, the country in Bactria conquered by the Yuezhi was named “Ta-Hsia” i.e., Daxia (大夏). Its people did not have a powerful king, and most of its cities were controlled by governors. Their soldiers were weak and cowardly in battle. These descriptions are somewhat inconsistent with a Greek kingdom, which would be expected to have strong armies. According to the records of Strabo, the central
of the four tribes in this alliance were the Tokharoi (Tochari). It is generally accepted that Ta-Hsia 大夏” is a rendering of “Tochar/Tachar”. >>

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